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It’s all gone a bit Liz Truss – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795
    kle4 said:

    You get used to the status quo. People try now to treat any field like its Green Belt, and even scrubland in the Belt like its the heart of the Cotswolds. Ridiculous.
    Free trade only works with the near elimination of subsidies. Funnily enough one of the biggest issues in the establishment of a large free trade zone, just next to the U.K., was getting rid of state subsidies.

    Insisting on free trade in the face of massive state subsidies, simply gives away everything.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,133
    MaxPB said:

    Asda seems to be the biggest loser and not just among the big supermarkets, they seem to have lost across all categories in food and non-food.
    How the hell can Asda pay up if they lose the equal pay claim going through then ?
    The decision is due soon, supposedly this month. The same goes with the Morrisons claim. They are in trouble too.

    Both are not profitable and are looking at job cuts.

    There is another pay discrimination claim against Asda the union is pursuing. This time Ambient shopping trolleys.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,427
    Sean_F said:

    Techne UK have:

    Con 25%
    Lab 26%
    Reform 23%
    Lib Dem 12%
    Green 7%.

    Odd way to list them. Surely:

    Lab 26%
    Con 25%
    Reform 23%
    Lib Dem 12%
    Green 7%.

    Is more accurate/appropriate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837
    boulay said:

    Ian McKellen?
    I was thinking more of this crew:
    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/apr/27/nothing-like-a-dame-judi-dench-maggie-smith-eileen-atkins-joan-plowright

    If you've not seen the film, it's a hoot, and quite moving in places.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 878

    Watching builders at work, the next big scandals will be painting and insulation.

    Insulation - the use of fibre products without PPE. *any* microscopic fibres in the lungs are bad.

    Painting - to get a good finish, you fill, sand, paint, sand… Power tools are great but produce huge quantities of very fine particulates. A lot of people using no PPE.

    The building firm I’m associated with insists on masks, eye protection. For some stuff, wearing disposable protective suits.

    That way we don’t have young men coughing like they are smoking 40 a day.
    I have a friend whose brother, 30s, died over Covid from inhaling fibres from cargo loaded at a nearby port, came up as a shadow on his lungs in TB screening for a job. He was living abroad and by the time it was diagnosed as fibre-related cancer he needed a lung transplant.
    Very sad, not sure why he was so affected, perhaps some people are more susceptible.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,860

    I know a few people who work for them or worked for them, the new owners are woeful.

    It seems cost cutting to pay interest and dividends is where the money goes these days rather than on stores or product development/review.
    The stores look awful compared to the Walmart days, same goes for Morrisons, it is similarly unpleasant. You can't blame the shareholders for pulling out all they can before the whole shebang goes through the hoop. It all went a bit like the Coop when they were on the cusp of extinction a few years ago.

    I hate Tesco with avengeance however their stores and likewise Sainsburys and Waitrose are clean, there are staff about and product facings are well stocked.

    I am surprised Asda and Morrisons survived 2024 and to an extent improved sales.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517

    Watching builders at work, the next big scandals will be painting and insulation.

    Insulation - the use of fibre products without PPE. *any* microscopic fibres in the lungs are bad.

    Painting - to get a good finish, you fill, sand, paint, sand… Power tools are great but produce huge quantities of very fine particulates. A lot of people using no PPE.

    The building firm I’m associated with insists on masks, eye protection. For some stuff, wearing disposable protective suits.

    That way we don’t have young men coughing like they are smoking 40 a day.
    There's a current scandal involving cutting of IIRC quartz countertops.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817

    My theory is that it all started going wrong when the media stopped reporting the monthly trade balance.

    And when and why they did that I'd love to know.
    Possibly the theory was that free-floating exchange rates meant trade balances did not matter any more, as currencies would adjust themselves.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,426
    Sexist dog whistle from Starmer

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/32855183/starmer-balls-ruthless-benefits-bill/

    I’ve got the balls to take an axe to Britain’s benefits bill – we’ll be RUTHLESS with cuts if needed, vows Keir Starmer
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,358

    That's true. However that's also why they should have joined the dots more effectively.

    I think the public would have understood 'the public estate is falling apart and is going to need more money; some tax rises are therefore necessary, justified and moral'. It wouldn't have been overly popular but I don't think that many people would have defected their support when the case was so obviously right.
    See, it is possible (and far more effective) to engage in fair minded and reasonable criticism of the government. PB Tories take note!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,115
    Old bloke gives even older bloke a medal.
    Poor old Ralph looks somewhat etiolated.

    https://x.com/RetroChristians/status/1879322598791876862
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817
    Sandpit said:

    Trump rumoured to announce Sean Curran as the head of the US Secret Service.

    https://x.com/susancrabtree/status/1879992579049287922

    Curran was the lead USSS officer of Trump’s personal detail, and is the man on the right hand side of the famous photo of Trump after he was shot.

    Trump really does seem to be appointing only personal acquaintances.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837

    Free trade only works with the near elimination of subsidies. Funnily enough one of the biggest issues in the establishment of a large free trade zone, just next to the U.K., was getting rid of state subsidies.

    Insisting on free trade in the face of massive state subsidies, simply gives away everything.
    The entire world was onboard with subsidising the development of renewable technology, and has been doing so in a half hearted manner for quite a long time. That China decided to use the opportunity to dominate these new markets, by subsidising massively, ought to have been clear a long time back.

    We (and most of the west) failed to respond in any coherent manner.
    I am neither in the industry or a technical expert, but it was pretty obvious to me long ago.
    Instead we've spent the last decade or so arguing about whether EVs, or solar power etc are even viable technologies in the market. Up until the point where it's obvious that they will take over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837

    Trump really does seem to be appointing only personal acquaintances.
    I think personal loyalty to him is the metric.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    Nigelb said:

    I think personal loyalty to him is the metric.
    He got some tiny pushback before from people he'd appointed who had concepts of wider duties and loyalties. Not again.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5gd48v10jo

    “Fiona and Dan don't think any future CQC investigation into Leeds could be independent with the trust's former chief executive in charge of the regulator.

    Sir Julian Hartley led the trust for 10 years, until January 2023, and was in post when Aliona died. He took over the CQC in December 2024.”

    Definitely not a #NU10K revolving door there, not at all.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,004
    Nigelb said:

    I think personal loyalty to him is the metric.
    They don't call him the Don for nothing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,133
    Nigelb said:

    The entire world was onboard with subsidising the development of renewable technology, and has been doing so in a half hearted manner for quite a long time. That China decided to use the opportunity to dominate these new markets, by subsidising massively, ought to have been clear a long time back.

    We (and most of the west) failed to respond in any coherent manner.
    I am neither in the industry or a technical expert, but it was pretty obvious to me long ago.
    Instead we've spent the last decade or so arguing about whether EVs, or solar power etc are even viable technologies in the market. Up until the point where it's obvious that they will take over.
    In the early 2010's I worked for a company that made Solar Thermal as opposed to Solar PV. The take up was pretty good, especially in Germany where the main target was hotels and HMO's where they needed hot water to wash towels and linen.

    They were made in a nice part of Germany called Rastede. Used to like my visits there.

    The market was going great guns and then the German state just cut the subsidy and sales dried up.

    It just seemed short sighted at the time.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517
    carnforth said:

    There's a current scandal involving cutting of IIRC quartz countertops.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna95959
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817
    Nigelb said:

    The entire world was onboard with subsidising the development of renewable technology, and has been doing so in a half hearted manner for quite a long time. That China decided to use the opportunity to dominate these new markets, by subsidising massively, ought to have been clear a long time back.

    We (and most of the west) failed to respond in any coherent manner.
    I am neither in the industry or a technical expert, but it was pretty obvious to me long ago.
    Instead we've spent the last decade or so arguing about whether EVs, or solar power etc are even viable technologies in the market. Up until the point where it's obvious that they will take over.
    One car market phenomenon the established makers missed is that EVs destroy brand advantage. The electric-ness provides its own prestige so there is no need to pay double the price for a (European) luxury car. It is not an original observation but I have seen it among my friends, for instance a Jaguar replaced by a Chinese MG EV and a Porsche by a Hyundai and a Mercedes by a Tesla.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,133

    One car market phenomenon the established makers missed is that EVs destroy brand advantage. The electric-ness provides its own prestige so there is no need to pay double the price for a (European) luxury car. It is not an original observation but I have seen it among my friends, for instance a Jaguar replaced by a Chinese MG EV and a Porsche by a Hyundai and a Mercedes by a Tesla.
    Jaguar is fighting back but have they left it too late ?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    One car market phenomenon the established makers missed is that EVs destroy brand advantage. The electric-ness provides its own prestige so there is no need to pay double the price for a (European) luxury car. It is not an original observation but I have seen it among my friends, for instance a Jaguar replaced by a Chinese MG EV and a Porsche by a Hyundai and a Mercedes by a Tesla.
    Interesting observation, although it sounds like a subtle trading down to me. The UK slowly becoming a middle income country.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837
    Anyone following Enron on TwitterX ?

    Today we launched The Enron Egg, the world’s first micro-nuclear reactor made to power your home.
    https://x.com/Enron/status/1876343167630594287

    Quite amusing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274
    Sandpit said:

    There’s a lot of books to be written about the state of the Democratic Party in the last 18 months.

    They had plenty of opportunities to have Biden stand aside and choose someone who could beat Trump, and failed to take all of them until it was far too late, so they ended up with little choice but to impose the most unsuitable candidate on the party with no competitive primaries.

    There’s loads of competent Dem Governors and Senators who could have stood up and done the job.
    If you want to feel “phew, dodged a bullet” (literally, perhaps) I suggest watching Biden’s farewell TV speech

    It is desperately sad, he is barely coherent, he garbles entire sentences, loses track, stammers and mis-speaks, and - remember - this is a speech that was carefully written for him, which he had surely rehearsed a thousand times, and he had a teleprompter, it wasn’t a hostile interview or a debate

    He isn’t up to the job of cleaning his own shoes, let alone running the global superpower as it battles with China

    It is terrifying to think he might have become POTUS for another term, and even more terrifying that the Democrats were happy to lie about his very obvious mental issues, for years - as indeed were people on this site (but they can be forgiven, PBers are not seeking to run the USA)

    The Democrats, frankly, deserved to lose for this reason alone. Such mendacity, on such a grave issue, needs to be electorally punished
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    Leon said:

    It is desperately sad, he is barely coherent, he garbles entire sentences, loses track, stammers and mis-speaks

    As does Trump
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274

    The part that bemuses me most is the idiotic thinking that cuts save money. That we can simply spend less and cut teacher numbers, or cut the social provision for services in poor areas, or cut the number of police officers.

    Cut the service and the need doesn't magically disappear. In each of these examples we're then spending MORE mopping up the mess than we have saved. Its utterly stupid, this post-Thatcherite "we can't afford it" mentality where its "who pays" instead of "who benefits". We can't afford not to have enough teachers. We have to pay more for temp staff. You can't cut youth provision in poor areas without paying more to fix the inevitable damage they cause. A complete lack of available police in NE towns so that there's no police at all and petty crime goes off the scale? Madness.

    The reason why Reform are connecting with punters is that they are calling out the madness and offering obvious solutions. Such as crack down on crime. I think the right have a view of the left being soft on crime. Go ask WWC people in run down areas what they would like done to thieves and vandals - they don't want soft...
    Which is why Reform are inevitably going to win in 2028
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,426
    Nigelb said:

    I think personal loyalty to him is the metric.
    Very wise. The country would be in a better place now if Blair had followed the same principle and sacked Brown.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817

    Interesting observation, although it sounds like a subtle trading down to me. The UK slowly becoming a middle income country.
    This EV for luxury substitution is not confined to Britain. Look at the early adopters of Teslas among the Hollywood glitterati.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517
    edited January 17

    Interesting observation, although it sounds like a subtle trading down to me. The UK slowly becoming a middle income country.
    Depends if electrification leads to more buying of new cars rather than second hand. I've never bought a new car, but might buy an electric one new. That'd be trading up.

    Having said that, the average age of a car on UK roads is at record highs - cars are just more reliable / less rusty than before - though there are economic factors too, of course.
  • Leon said:

    Which is why Reform are inevitably going to win in 2028
    Gamblers take note, Leondamus has spoken.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited January 17
    Nigelb said:

    Anyone following Enron on TwitterX ?

    Today we launched The Enron Egg, the world’s first micro-nuclear reactor made to power your home.
    https://x.com/Enron/status/1876343167630594287

    Quite amusing.

    Yes, someone bought the brand name (or maybe didn’t even buy the brand name, just the Twitter account name), and trolled a load of people who should really have known better.

    https://x.com/Enron/status/1871276328907104335
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,263

    Sexist dog whistle from Starmer

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/32855183/starmer-balls-ruthless-benefits-bill/

    I’ve got the balls to take an axe to Britain’s benefits bill – we’ll be RUTHLESS with cuts if needed, vows Keir Starmer

    Starmer is really going to come unstuck with stuff like this.

    His party didn’t come into government to talk tough on wielding the axe. And rightly and wrongly the voting public did not expect him to do so either.

    It will also be seen as another attack on vulnerable people.

    This isnt the Blair years when those on the left tolerated the more populist “tough” language from some in government on the basis that Blair polled well, the economy was performing and they were able to see investment in public services. This is a government without much of a plan, struggling with popularity and whose credentials and direction are being questioned on a daily basis.

    This is going to end in tears.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795
    carnforth said:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna95959
    Yes

    The carpentry industry worked this out long ago. The glue in plywood for instance. Eye protection and respirators everywhere. Plus dust collection on all machines.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333
    HYUFD said:

    So on that graph 79% of UK healthcare funding comes from government schemes compared to just 6% in Germany, 8% in Japan, 16% in France, 26% in the US, 68% in Australia, 68% in Canada, 69% in NZ, 66% in Spain and 73% in Italy
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29
    Yes. But in Germany and Japan, the government mandates you pay for insurance. The end result is everyone pays a bit of money and everyone gets healthcare. It’s just in the UK, those payments are called tax, and in Japan and Germany, those similar payments are called insurance.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517
    carnforth said:

    Depends if electrification leads to more buying of new cars rather than second hand. I've never bought a new car, but might buy an electric one new. That'd be trading up.

    Having said that, the average age of a car on UK roads is at record highs - cars are just more reliable / less rusty than before - though there are economic factors too, of course.
    Since I don't have a better use for my daily image:


  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,013
    carnforth said:

    Depends if electrification leads to more buying of new cars rather than second hand. I've never bought a new car, but might buy an electric one new. That'd be trading up.

    Having said that, the average age of a car on UK roads is at record highs - cars are just more reliable / less rusty than before - though there are economic factors too, of course.
    One factor pushing up the average age could be people loath to buy a new ICE car and waiting for electric to become cheaper (and smaller).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130904131244/http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/L/htmlL/licensefee/licensefee.htm

    "Many countries other than Great Britain, including Israel, Malta, France, the Netherlands and Jordan, have some form of license fees. Some base their fee on color television only (like Great Britain) and some on color television and radio (for example, Denmark). Two thirds of the countries in Europe, one half in Africa and Asia and 10% of those in the Americas and Caribbean rely, at least in part, on a license fee to support their television systems."
    And the streamers collectively are in trouble and cutting back massively (and by an unhappy coincidence, a lot of LA capacity has gone up in flames). It is like the early days of Premier League football in that Sky or Netflix achieved huge growth but soon viewers need half a dozen subscriptions as competitors enter the market and content is scattered.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,096

    It was in the FAA defined hazard corridor - in the flight plan. Such corridors are a mandatory part of licensing for all launches. And are released as notifications to pilots.

    In fact the notifications going out on airspace restrictions and hazards are the first confirmation of the scheduling of a space launch, usually. The announcement of the launch license itself often comes later.

    The FTS is fired according to defined limits (again agreed with the licensing authorities) - there’s no ground button to push. The usual main ones are the vehicle leaving (or heading to leave) the hazard corridor, or loss of control. The FTS is controlled from a separate box on the vehicle that monitors various numbers.
    There seems to be more than a little doubt about your claims, hence flights being diverted.
    https://simpleflying.com/flights-divert-dodge-debris-spacex-starship-explodes/

    And do you have a *reliable* source for your claim that the FTS fired within defined limits?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited January 17
    Leon said:

    If you want to feel “phew, dodged a bullet” (literally, perhaps) I suggest watching Biden’s farewell TV speech

    It is desperately sad, he is barely coherent, he garbles entire sentences, loses track, stammers and mis-speaks, and - remember - this is a speech that was carefully written for him, which he had surely rehearsed a thousand times, and he had a teleprompter, it wasn’t a hostile interview or a debate

    He isn’t up to the job of cleaning his own shoes, let alone running the global superpower as it battles with China

    It is terrifying to think he might have become POTUS for another term, and even more terrifying that the Democrats were happy to lie about his very obvious mental issues, for years - as indeed were people on this site (but they can be forgiven, PBers are not seeking to run the USA)

    The Democrats, frankly, deserved to lose for this reason alone. Such mendacity, on such a grave issue, needs to be electorally punished
    I genuinely feel sorry for Joe Biden, he’s clearly heading towards the end of his life. We’ve all sadly had to deal with parents or grandparents in similar states of mind.

    I don’t feel sorry for those around him who sought to benefit their own agenda from his ‘lack of focus’, starting with Mrs Biden and Mrs Harris.

    The Democratic Party could have put up a sensible candidate who might have taken the fight to Trump, but they made a conscious decision not to go down that path.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333

    Watching builders at work, the next big scandals will be painting and insulation.

    Insulation - the use of fibre products without PPE. *any* microscopic fibres in the lungs are bad.

    Painting - to get a good finish, you fill, sand, paint, sand… Power tools are great but produce huge quantities of very fine particulates. A lot of people using no PPE.

    The building firm I’m associated with insists on masks, eye protection. For some stuff, wearing disposable protective suits.

    That way we don’t have young men coughing like they are smoking 40 a day.
    Sensible… although the Trump/Musk crowd would say you are stifling growth.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,817

    Yes

    The carpentry industry worked this out long ago. The glue in plywood for instance. Eye protection and respirators everywhere. Plus dust collection on all machines.
    Our block had new fire doors and associated building work recently and the only one wearing a mask was the woman inspecting the electrics afterwards.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,333

    Trump really does seem to be appointing only personal acquaintances.
    Personal acquaintances AND people he’s seen on Fox News.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,381
    carnforth said:

    Since I don't have a better use for my daily image:


    I assume there is some flexibility in the daily image quota for those of us that post an image about once a year. I assume I can get away with two if I don't post another for sometime. In fact I believe I have done that in the past, but after the rule came into effect.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,923

    Sexist dog whistle from Starmer

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/32855183/starmer-balls-ruthless-benefits-bill/

    I’ve got the balls to take an axe to Britain’s benefits bill – we’ll be RUTHLESS with cuts if needed, vows Keir Starmer

    Oh good. Another Thatcherite policy.

    All together now "They don't know how to fly the plane"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,426
    YouGov’s German MRP poll is out:

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1880198389411008747

    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274
    Sandpit said:

    I genuinely feel sorry for Joe Biden, he’s clearly heading towards the end of his life. We’ve all sadly had to deal with parents or grandparents in similar states of mind.

    I don’t feel sorry for those around him who sought to benefit their own agenda from his ‘lack of focus’, starting with Mrs Biden and Mrs Harris.

    The Democratic Party could have put up a sensible candidate who might have taken the fight to Trump, but they made a conscious decision not to go down that path.
    I was saying on this site, by late 2022, that Biden is obvs gaga - and I was much mocked for it. Less mockery now, eh

    More importantly if his decline was plainly apparent to drunken flint knappers in tropical hotel bars it must have been screamingly obvious to Biden insiders at that point. What went wrong? Why did no one do anything? The risk of their losing to Trump if they persisted with Biden (or Harris) was clear

    SOMEONE is culpable and needs a slap. A collective Democrat shrug and “shit happens” doesn’t really cut it
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,004
    kjh said:

    I assume there is some flexibility in the daily image quota for those of us that post an image about once a year. I assume I can get away with two if I don't post another for sometime. In fact I believe I have done that in the past, but after the rule came into effect.
    Don't ask, don't tell!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,263

    YouGov’s German MRP poll is out:

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1880198389411008747

    image

    CDU/SPD coalition on those figures, I think?

    Very hard to see any other outcome at the moment, unless they fall short of a majority and need to bring someone else in (who?!)
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 727
    Nigelb said:

    RIP Joan Plowright.
    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2025/jan/17/joan-plowright-dies-after-long-stage-and-screen-career

    Are any of theatre's great dames other than Judi Dench still left ?

    (edit) Apols to Eileen Atkins, who is still with us at 90.

    Theatrical Dames still with us: Emma Thompson, Julie Walters, Harriet Walter. I hope I haven't jinxed them by mentioning them.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,004

    Gamblers take note, Leondamus has spoken.
    Win as in highest party by vote share for Farages party, I suspect he will be correct for once, but they may not be called Reform by then.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,798

    One car market phenomenon the established makers missed is that EVs destroy brand advantage. The electric-ness provides its own prestige so there is no need to pay double the price for a (European) luxury car. It is not an original observation but I have seen it among my friends, for instance a Jaguar replaced by a Chinese MG EV and a Porsche by a Hyundai and a Mercedes by a Tesla.
    This programme interviewed people on the streets of Chongqing about their views of BYD

    - Great company. Impressive what they're doing.

    Would you like to buy one as your next car?

    - Of course not. I want a German car.

    https://youtu.be/82N5PgBS62Y?si=rC51eXcOHDx0vW4X
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,975

    YouGov’s German MRP poll is out:

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1880198389411008747

    image

    That is stark
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,115

    YouGov’s German MRP poll is out:

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1880198389411008747

    image

    From the Baltic to Saxony, an iron curtain has descended across the country.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,158
    Leon said:

    Remarkable map, mirroring the Iron Curtain right down to the granular level of Berlin
    Which leads to two questions that I'd love to know more about;

    1 What's going on? Is it that the east of Germany has been left behind like the north of England? Anyone with zip and pizzazz has gone elsewhere in the country? Whatever is causing the discontent, is there much sign that the AfD medicine will help?

    2 What's the story with the two outliers? That splodge of SPD to the south-west of Berlin, and that AfD enclave on the north coast? Kiel?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,109
    edited January 17

    Which leads to two questions that I'd love to know more about;

    1 What's going on? Is it that the east of Germany has been left behind like the north of England? Anyone with zip and pizzazz has gone elsewhere in the country? Whatever is causing the discontent, is there much sign that the AfD medicine will help?

    2 What's the story with the two outliers? That splodge of SPD to the south-west of Berlin, and that AfD enclave on the north coast? Kiel?
    Yes. After reunification most ambitious people, especially young women, moved to the West, leaving disgruntled people behind in the East.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,689

    Which leads to two questions that I'd love to know more about;

    1 What's going on? Is it that the east of Germany has been left behind like the north of England? Anyone with zip and pizzazz has gone elsewhere in the country? Whatever is causing the discontent, is there much sign that the AfD medicine will help?

    2 What's the story with the two outliers? That splodge of SPD to the south-west of Berlin, and that AfD enclave on the north coast? Kiel?
    I think that AfD enclave on the North coast is actually Green.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,975

    Which leads to two questions that I'd love to know more about;

    1 What's going on? Is it that the east of Germany has been left behind like the north of England? Anyone with zip and pizzazz has gone elsewhere in the country? Whatever is causing the discontent, is there much sign that the AfD medicine will help?

    2 What's the story with the two outliers? That splodge of SPD to the south-west of Berlin, and that AfD enclave on the north coast? Kiel?
    I assume the splodge of SPD south-west of Berlin is metropolitan liberal Berlin overspill
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,158
    Cookie said:

    I think that AfD enclave on the North coast is actually Green.
    [Rubs grime from glasses, turns lights up a bit]

    Good spot- I think you're right. That makes more sense, I suspect.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,905
    Selebian said:

    There's a bizarre left/right reversal going on here*, re subsidies/tariffs versus free trade. The new right is quite different to the one I grew up with and so, it seems, is the left. I'm still somewhere in the centre, but some of my formerly left-wing positions now seem right-wing and vice-versa!

    *and elsewhere, US, for example
    Yes it’s confusing isn’t it? I think the reason is that both wings are having a crisis of self confidence. Small state low tax doesn’t seem to be what people want. On the other hand they don’t want an overbearing bureaucracy either. Both sides are being driven to think outside the box with a consequential loss of coherence.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    East Germany is now richer than most of the UK, which shows that politics is not just about money.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    There seems to be more than a little doubt about your claims, hence flights being diverted.
    https://simpleflying.com/flights-divert-dodge-debris-spacex-starship-explodes/

    And do you have a *reliable* source for your claim that the FTS fired within defined limits?
    I’ll have to dig - but the warning went out on the corridor, by the FAA.

    That’s how FTSs work - they all have to follow agreed, defined rules. Its controlled by a separate computer on the vehicle. There isn’t a bloke with a button, on the ground.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274

    Which leads to two questions that I'd love to know more about;

    1 What's going on? Is it that the east of Germany has been left behind like the north of England? Anyone with zip and pizzazz has gone elsewhere in the country? Whatever is causing the discontent, is there much sign that the AfD medicine will help?

    2 What's the story with the two outliers? That splodge of SPD to the south-west of Berlin, and that AfD enclave on the north coast? Kiel?
    For me, it shows me how much I adore maps of any kind, and how they still evoke my endless desire to travel

    Eg those weird islands at the top, what are they like? I am aware of Sylt but there’s loads of them, and they look freaky and tantalizing

    Germany is probably the least visited of all the major European nations, for me and many others. I know the Rhineland, Berlin, Bavaria, I know Cologne and the Ruhr a bit. After that it’s kinda blank
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Leon said:

    For me, it shows me how much I adore maps of any kind, and how they still evoke my endless desire to travel

    Eg those weird islands at the top, what are they like? I am aware of Sylt but there’s loads of them, and they look freaky and tantalizing

    Germany is probably the least visited of all the major European nations, for me and many others. I know the Rhineland, Berlin, Bavaria, I know Cologne and the Ruhr a bit. After that it’s kinda blank
    Why on earth do you know the Ruhr?
    Shopping for flint knapping machine tools?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    DavidL said:

    Yes it’s confusing isn’t it? I think the reason is that both wings are having a crisis of self confidence. Small state low tax doesn’t seem to be what people want. On the other hand they don’t want an overbearing bureaucracy either. Both sides are being driven to think outside the box with a consequential loss of coherence.
    The neo-liberal era simply did not deliver for the majority of the electorate.

    Ideological hokey-cokey is one of the morbid symptoms some dead Italian warned about.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274

    East Germany is now richer than most of the UK, which shows that politics is not just about money.

    Everywhere is now richer than most of the UK
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,689
    Leon said:

    For me, it shows me how much I adore maps of any kind, and how they still evoke my endless desire to travel

    Eg those weird islands at the top, what are they like? I am aware of Sylt but there’s loads of them, and they look freaky and tantalizing

    Germany is probably the least visited of all the major European nations, for me and many others. I know the Rhineland, Berlin, Bavaria, I know Cologne and the Ruhr a bit. After that it’s kinda blank
    A friend of mine is fanatical about the German North coast. Says you could go to Cornwall ... or you could go to Germany and have a holiday in Germany which is half the price and so you can therefore afford to do twice the amount of stuff or stay somewhere twice as good. You still get the sandy dreamy summer coastiness, and you also get to explore a slightly different culture.
    Not a massive draw for someone who travels on expenses, I suppose.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,426
    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,394
    @labourpress

    Kemi Badenoch says she is excited about cutting the state pension

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1880233205309272226
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Leon said:

    Everywhere is now richer than most of the UK
    Well I did say this for years and was continually pooh-poohed.

    As you know, it’s hard being a prophet before one’s time.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517
    You're all missing a banger Draper match in the Australian Open. Final set tiebreak now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,795

    The neo-liberal era simply did not deliver for the majority of the electorate.

    Ideological hokey-cokey is one of the morbid symptoms some dead Italian warned about.

    More that, for ideological and convenience reasons, rules were not followed.

    Free trade requires removing tariff and subsidy barriers.

    It was decided, by quite a number of people, that in the case of China (for example) this should be replaced by stick fingers in ears and screaming LA-LA-LA.

    This was convenient for consumers of Chinese goods. Management could out source all that pesky product stuff. CO2 emissions could be cut. No nasty factories to annoy NIMBYs. Ever dropping prices created deflation in a part of the economy to offset rampant property price inflation.

    Very convenient, for quite a few people.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Cookie said:

    A friend of mine is fanatical about the German North coast. Says you could go to Cornwall ... or you could go to Germany and have a holiday in Germany which is half the price and so you can therefore afford to do twice the amount of stuff or stay somewhere twice as good. You still get the sandy dreamy summer coastiness, and you also get to explore a slightly different culture.
    Not a massive draw for someone who travels on expenses, I suppose.
    I met two elderly German lesbians who were very keen on the north German coast, but also seemed a bit worried that it might get discovered and thereby ruined by non-Germans.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    More that, for ideological and convenience reasons, rules were not followed.

    Free trade requires removing tariff and subsidy barriers.

    It was decided, by quite a number of people, that in the case of China (for example) this should be replaced by stick fingers in ears and screaming LA-LA-LA.

    This was convenient for consumers of Chinese goods. Management could out source all that pesky product stuff. CO2 emissions could be cut. No nasty factories to annoy NIMBYs. Ever dropping prices created deflation in a part of the economy to offset rampant property price inflation.

    Very convenient, for quite a few people.
    Your prose style always assumes some kind of conspiratorial premise.

    “It was decided…” etc.

    I wonder if there is a grammatical term for this.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,388

    I met two elderly German lesbians who were very keen on the north German coast, but also seemed a bit worried that it might get discovered and thereby ruined by non-Germans.
    Why describe their sexuality? Is it relevant to their opinion of the north German coast?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,263
    Scott_xP said:

    @labourpress

    Kemi Badenoch says she is excited about cutting the state pension

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1880233205309272226

    Badenoch was right the triple lock needs to be looked at. Good for her.

    But she now looks to be rowing back on it, hence undermining the point.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274

    Why on earth do you know the Ruhr?
    Shopping for flint knapping machine tools?
    Few weird assignments in Düsseldorf and the like. Not an attractive part of Europe

    In my experience travel in Germany is simultaneously better than you think, but somehow still disappointing

    The awful food doesn’t help
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,381
    Scott_xP said:

    @labourpress

    Kemi Badenoch says she is excited about cutting the state pension

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1880233205309272226

    She says: 'Other parties do not have our networks and expertise'

    What utter arrogance.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Scott_xP said:

    @labourpress

    Kemi Badenoch says she is excited about cutting the state pension

    https://x.com/labourpress/status/1880233205309272226

    At the same time, Keir is on record has having the BALLS this cut disability spending.

    It’s a battle of fiscal concupiscence, and I’m here for it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274

    Why describe their sexuality? Is it relevant to their opinion of the north German coast?
    Oh do fuck off
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Leon said:

    Few weird assignments in Düsseldorf and the like. Not an attractive part of Europe

    In my experience travel in Germany is simultaneously better than you think, but somehow still disappointing

    The awful food doesn’t help
    German food is fine if, like me, you like great hunks of flesh for dinner.

    I have fond memories of jugged boar in the Prussian restaurant in Berlin. I wonder if it’s still there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,062

    At the same time, Keir is on record has having the BALLS this cut disability spending.

    It’s a battle of fiscal concupiscence, and I’m here for it.
    Kemi must want to give Reform a free run in Runcorn.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,391
    edited January 17

    I’ve blown my daily photo allowance, so if you want to see Liz Truss in a MAGA hat, you’ll have to click the link:

    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1880242828317716884

    This is the hat all Brits should wear, Liz Truss is a traitor.


  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    Why describe their sexuality? Is it relevant to their opinion of the north German coast?
    It adds a little character, don’t you think?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,414
    kjh said:

    She says: 'Other parties do not have our networks and expertise'

    What utter arrogance.
    It's not a bad argument to make (we can do it because of our experiences of how hard it is) but there done in an insufferable and stupid way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274
    edited January 17

    German food is fine if, like me, you like great hunks of flesh for dinner.

    I have fond memories of jugged boar in the Prussian restaurant in Berlin. I wonder if it’s still there.
    It’s fucking terrible

    I still shudder at a Gazette assignment where I did six days luxury cruising down the Rhine

    1. The Rhine is actually less attractive than you expect

    2. The wine is a bit meh, TBH

    3. You soon get bored of castles on the Rhine

    4. Not a single decent meal all week, unless you count currywurst (which I do, coz it’s great)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,062
    Leon said:

    Few weird assignments in Düsseldorf and the like. Not an attractive part of Europe

    In my experience travel in Germany is simultaneously better than you think, but somehow still disappointing

    The awful food doesn’t help
    Visited Bayrischzell, Munich & Schliersee a few years back. Lovely part of the world.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,993

    Eileen Atkins & Helen Mirren surely qualify.

    Disgracefully I only got round to watching Gosford Park over the festive period, cracking film with a good An Inspector Calls, boot the class system in the balls vibe. Didn’t seem dated at all unlike a lot of stuff made 20+ years ago.
    Four Dames was interesting , them all reminiscing, down to 2 noow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837
    DavidL said:

    Yes it’s confusing isn’t it? I think the reason is that both wings are having a crisis of self confidence. Small state low tax doesn’t seem to be what people want. On the other hand they don’t want an overbearing bureaucracy either. Both sides are being driven to think outside the box with a consequential loss of coherence.
    Competence and necessary pragmatism are probably somewhere up there - but neither really correlate well, if at all, with the left/right spectrum.

    Pragmatism is arguably a centrist quality, but effective pragmatism hasn't often been demonstrated by centrist politicians in recent times.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,993

    I know a few people who work for them or worked for them, the new owners are woeful.

    It seems the money now goes to pay interest and dividends these days rather than on stores or product development/review.
    Did teh 2 brothers that bought it with loans not fall out as well and on etook stores and eth other took petrol stations or suchlike.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,837

    Badenoch was right the triple lock needs to be looked at. Good for her.

    But she now looks to be rowing back on it, hence undermining the point.
    She's had a look - and changed her mind ?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,381
    edited January 17
    Leon said:

    Few weird assignments in Düsseldorf and the like. Not an attractive part of Europe

    In my experience travel in Germany is simultaneously better than you think, but somehow still disappointing

    The awful food doesn’t help
    Agree about the food.

    On the subject of food I am going to make a whole list of British puddings for friends. I love traditional puddings done well and was going to make a visit to the pudding club, but I'm not sure about it now, so I am going to do it myself to be eaten after long dog walks.

    Yesterday was a Stilton and Walnut tart (made with puff pasty and lots of caramelised onions) followed by Damson Crumble and Bread and Butter pudding. Not had bread and butter pudding since my kids were children.

    Next I am going for a Treacle pudding (Not to be confused with a syrup pudding. Has to be made with black treacle).

    So far I have about 15 on my list.

    Anyway back to the next batch of marmalade making.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,667
    Leon said:

    Few weird assignments in Düsseldorf and the like. Not an attractive part of Europe

    In my experience travel in Germany is simultaneously better than you think, but somehow still disappointing

    The awful food doesn’t help
    I think that captures it. I always enjoy trips to Germany but they are never exciting. Few things in Germany are the best of their kind in the world.

    Alsace is a bit better and prettier than the Schwarzwald, Switzerland and Austria do better Alps, Poland and Denmark do the Hanseatic look more comprehensively, Berlin is interesting but there are several more exciting European cities.

    One thing it does have that’s right up there is the Mosel river and vineyards. Scenically few places like that other than arguably the Duoro and the Northern Rhone. And further along in Luxembourg.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,274
    edited January 17

    It adds a little character, don’t you think?
    Of course it does; ignore this hairy old twat

    Perhaps you shouldn’t have mentioned their age, or nationality either, as that’s not strictly relevant? Like their sexuality?

    In which case your anecdote would be

    “I met two people who like the north German coast”

    Yes, let’s make all of PB like that so we can all die of boredom



  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    It wasn’t a conspiracy - just groupthink. A collective move to “Outsourcing to Chinese manufacturing is good/inevitable.”

    Gradually this became one of cornerstones of the policies of Decent People.

    Some little time ago, the people behind the Raspberry Pi asked for a review of the tariffs on components vs finished items imported from China. Essentially you pay more on bits than on the finished product. Meaning that manufacturing in China is cheaper.

    With some horror, the Foreign Office vetoed changes - “it might upset the Chinese”.
    It’s a kind of arch, conspiratorial, high style.
    Psychologists would have a field day.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,993
    Taz said:

    How the hell can Asda pay up if they lose the equal pay claim going through then ?
    The decision is due soon, supposedly this month. The same goes with the Morrisons claim. They are in trouble too.

    Both are not profitable and are looking at job cuts.

    There is another pay discrimination claim against Asda the union is pursuing. This time Ambient shopping trolleys.
    Hardly worth getting equal pay ( joke anyway trying to say working at a till is same as in distribution centres etc ) when shedloads of you get sacked. They will just get shot and offer new contracts with everybody on lower wages.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,993
    Nigelb said:

    She's had a look - and changed her mind ?
    blew off both feet so bit late now.
This discussion has been closed.