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The by-election nobody wants? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,133
    Difficult to see how Carney becomes Liberal leader when he isn't an MP at the moment and the party would lose most of their seats if there was a by-election. The only way would be if a Liberal MP stands down in one of their safest seats in Montreal — such as Justin Trudeau in Papineau.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,143
    edited January 17
    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Eabhal said:

    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.

    Proposing to means test the triple lock is a nonsense though. The triple lock either stays or goes, the basic pension may or may not be means tested in the future. I suppose pension credit could be triple locked (Is it currently ?) but that's not what she said.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Eabhal said:

    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.

    Nope, they won't win Millenials on any of that, if anything we should be ring fencing NI and start to use it to fund social care and some health care not tax as well as JSA it already does provide.

    While the likes of you applaud Badenoch for trashing pensioners you also have not the slightest interest in ever voting Tory, meanwhile pensioners who actually do vote Tory might go LD or Reform if Badenoch proposes to remove their triple lock
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.

    Proposing to means test the triple lock is a nonsense though. The triple lock either stays or goes, the basic pension may or may not be means tested in the future. I suppose pension credit could be triple locked (Is it currently ?) but that's not what she said.
    Of course it's nonsense. Maybe she meant a UC style taper on the whole thing. But that's not really the point - it's the signal it sends.*

    Risky though, could dump them clearly into third in the polls. But given Labour's polling numbers it's probably the best time for it.

    *Or it's a massive gaffe and I'm affording her too much credit.
  • HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.

    Nope, they won't win Millenials on any of that, if anything we should be ring fencing NI and start to use it to fund social care and some health care not tax as well as JSA it already does provide.

    While the likes of you applaud Badenoch for trashing pensioners you also have not the slightest interest in ever voting Tory, meanwhile pensioners who actually do vote Tory might go LD or Reform if Badenoch proposes to remove their triple lock
    You do not get it

    I applaud Kemi and will vote for her - you can join Reform
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Top marks for Badenoch on the Triple Lock signal. They might be getting serious about winning some votes from the under 65s.

    If they come up with a sensible plan for Net Zero (energy market reform), a bit of tax reform (abolish/merge NICs?), and chat about a tangible reform to the NHS (eg more spending on primary care, prevention and infrastructure) they could start to outflank Labour in the long term battle for Millenials.

    Just be interesting and thoughtful for once, and people might start to lend them an ear.

    Proposing to means test the triple lock is a nonsense though. The triple lock either stays or goes, the basic pension may or may not be means tested in the future. I suppose pension credit could be triple locked (Is it currently ?) but that's not what she said.
    I thought she has recently been saying that it is far too early for policy and now is the time for general principles and so on.

    So a general principle might be that means testing is the way forward for welfare state and the end of universal benefits has to happen - even the state pension.

    That's not what I heard her say - it seems far more detailed and policy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Andy_JS said:

    Difficult to see how Carney becomes Liberal leader when he isn't an MP at the moment and the party would lose most of their seats if there was a by-election. The only way would be if a Liberal MP stands down in one of their safest seats in Montreal — such as Justin Trudeau in Papineau.

    You can be, Turner was even PM for a few months until he won a seat at a general election he admittedly lost. Freeland is probably favourite to be next Liberal leader though but not by much
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    Maybe it'll be like nursery fees where you need to earn under £100k to receive your state pension
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 17

    HYUFD said:

    'The Scottish Conservative group leader on Glasgow City Council has defected to Reform UK.

    Thomas Kerr, who represents the Shettleston ward, was first elected as a 20-year-old in 2017 and became Tory group leader in 2019.

    He was the party's candidate at the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election in October 2023, but finished a distant third.

    Kerr said he had been "annoyed and angry" with the Conservatives for several months, accusing the party of failing to champion working-class communities like those in Shettleston.

    He said the Tories focused too much on criticism of the SNP and "lacked a positive vision of centre-right conservatism".

    The councillor also suggested Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay was not in control of the "broken" party.'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy48p5132qno

    There were only two (inclusive) for him to be leader of.
    There’s always a tweet.


    They do but Farage is firmly pro monarchy and anti indyref2 as are most Reform voters and members

    https://www.gbnews.com/politics/indyref2-brexit-scotland-nigel-farage-politics
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    It says more about @HYUFD then Kemi Badenoch and other conservatives that want to see a completely new offer to the electorate in 2029

    Reform is there for @HYUFD if he doesn't like it
    Well if the Tories ended up with 0 seats in 2029 because all pensioners go LD or Reform and they don't win over any under 50s to replace them then I wouldn't have much choice but to go LD or Reform would I
  • HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    It says more about @HYUFD then Kemi Badenoch and other conservatives that want to see a completely new offer to the electorate in 2029

    Reform is there for @HYUFD if he doesn't like it
    Well if the Tories ended up with 0 seats in 2029 because all pensioners go LD or Reform and they don't win over any under 50s to replace them then I wouldn't have much choice but to go LD or Reform would I
    You do talk nonsense
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 17
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    'A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation?'

    Name me one party that doesn't enrich its core voters in government? Labour always funds the public sector more, the Tories support pensioners and the private sector more, the Liberals push socially liberal change, Reform push a hardline against immigration.

    If you abandon your legacy voters any party will go extinct and not even live to fight another day if it loses an election
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,133
    Emma Raducanu is 85/1 to win the Australian Open. I've put £5 on.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/tennis/market/1.224273109
  • HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    'A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation?'

    Name me one party that doesn't enrich its core voters in government? Labour always funds the public sector more, the Tories support pensioners and the private sector more, the Liberals push socially liberal change, Reform push a hardline against immigration.

    If you abandon your legacy voters any party will go extinct and not even live to fight another day if it loses an election
    Again you haven't listened to Kemi

    Maybe you will not fit in her party, but from what she said today it was refreshing and I support her
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,713
    edited January 17
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    'A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation?'

    Name me one party that doesn't enrich its core voters in government? Labour always funds the public sector more, the Tories support pensioners and the private sector more, the Liberals push socially liberal change, Reform push a hardline against immigration.

    If you abandon your legacy voters any party will go extinct and not even live to fight another day if it loses an election
    We have to expand the pie, rather than squabble over shares of a shrinking pie.

    Devoting an ever-rising share of public expenditure towards the retired, who do not need the extra money, and an ever-falling share towards younger workers, who do, shrinks the pie.

    You complain of a falling birth rate, but you expect people of childbearing age to be taxed heavily to boost the living standards of people who are long past childbearing age.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,713
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation.




    'A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation?'

    Name me one party that doesn't enrich its core voters in government? Labour always funds the public sector more, the Tories support pensioners and the private sector more, the Liberals push socially liberal change, Reform push a hardline against immigration.

    If you abandon your legacy voters any party will go extinct and not even live to fight another day if it loses an election
    We have to expand the pie, rather than squabble over shares of a shrinking pie.

    Devoting an ever-rising share of public expenditure towards the retired, who do not need the extra money, and an ever-falling share towards younger workers, who do, shrinks the pie.

    You complain of a falling birth rate, but you expect people of childbearing age to be taxed heavily to boost the living standards of people who are long past childbearing age.
    I don’t believe that retired voters are as chronically selfish as you think they are.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    edited January 17
    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    Andy_JS said:

    Biden bows out this weekend.

    I predict many, many Americans will yearn nostalgically for his presidency by the end of the next four years of madness.

    Interesting how people yearn for Reagan when at the time he was regarded as an extremist by many on the left.
    Do people yearn for Reagan? They admire his speeches and his speech, but imo a lot of the rest is in the same way as people use Thatcher here to point out how far many ostensible followers have moved, for instance, contrasting Reagan's Shining City on a Hill with Trump's Build the Wall.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden bows out this weekend.

    I predict many, many Americans will yearn nostalgically for his presidency by the end of the next four years of madness.

    Interesting how people yearn for Reagan when at the time he was regarded as an extremist by many on the left.
    Do people yearn for Reagan? They admire his speeches and his speech, but imo a lot of the rest is in the same way as people use Thatcher here to point out how far many ostensible followers have moved, for instance, contrasting Reagan's Shining City on a Hill with Trump's Build the Wall.
    There you go again.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden bows out this weekend.

    I predict many, many Americans will yearn nostalgically for his presidency by the end of the next four years of madness.

    Interesting how people yearn for Reagan when at the time he was regarded as an extremist by many on the left.
    Do people yearn for Reagan? They admire his speeches and his speech, but imo a lot of the rest is in the same way as people use Thatcher here to point out how far many ostensible followers have moved, for instance, contrasting Reagan's Shining City on a Hill with Trump's Build the Wall.
    There you go again.
    Sorry losers and haters, but my IQ is one of the highest – and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure, it’s not your fault.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312

    Apparently Starmer has today promised 150 new artillery pieces for Ukraine - the first to be made in the UK for 20 years. Ah, these are artillery barrels. To be made by Sheffield Forgemasters - remember them?

    Interesting that the British ability to bodge something together still seems to be in evidence with the new Gravehawk air defence system.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/45-billion-military-boost-to-ukraine-front-line-to-support-uk-growth-and-jobs

    (That's £4.5bn, not £45bn, as decimal points are stripped from numbers in URLs such as this.)

    It is promising to see new things being sent.

    More sensible long-term decision from Starmer & Co, here around defence.

    We'll see if cross-party unity can be built around Defence, perhaps after Kemi has found her feet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312
    edited January 17
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Meeting politicians is quite easy tho, So I am afraid one has to deduct points. Likewise royalty

    These people - pols and royals - have to go out meet other people, it’s their job. Even the most humdrum party worker or activist or even hustings attender can therefore meet a few PMs without breaking a sweat

    Meeting famous sport stars, artists, actors - actually MEETING them, conversing, snogging, doing a line of changaroo - is significantly more impressive
    Went to dinner with Tony Wilson (of Hacienda Club fame) at his home. Met Jack Nicholson when he was over in London once. Had Roland Gift of FYC at my birthday party. Went dancing with the Anglican Bishop of Blackpool in Puglia one summer.

    Have met loads of politicians and worked with some of them.
    There is no Anglican Bishop of Blackpool :smile:

    Was he the Riviera Gigolo, undercover?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312
    HYUFD said:

    'The Scottish Conservative group leader on Glasgow City Council has defected to Reform UK.

    Thomas Kerr, who represents the Shettleston ward, was first elected as a 20-year-old in 2017 and became Tory group leader in 2019.

    He was the party's candidate at the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election in October 2023, but finished a distant third.

    Kerr said he had been "annoyed and angry" with the Conservatives for several months, accusing the party of failing to champion working-class communities like those in Shettleston.

    He said the Tories focused too much on criticism of the SNP and "lacked a positive vision of centre-right conservatism".

    The councillor also suggested Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay was not in control of the "broken" party.'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy48p5132qno

    So Con and Reform now have one Councillor each in Glasgow, iihtr.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Pulpstar said:

    Maybe it'll be like nursery fees where you need to earn under £100k to receive your state pension

    My assumption is that, despite paying into it and "qualifying" in NI years through decades of working, by the time I'm up to collect I get nothing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852

    Pulpstar said:

    Maybe it'll be like nursery fees where you need to earn under £100k to receive your state pension

    My assumption is that, despite paying into it and "qualifying" in NI years through decades of working, by the time I'm up to collect I get nothing.
    I believe the government will deduct from your pension the value of the hours you spent on PB when you were at work.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,937
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Badenoch has also come out in favour of means testing for the Triple Lock too:

    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    If there is one thing that could see Kemi toppled as leader it is that, pensioners are the Tory core vote and the Tories cannot afford to lose them to Reform or the LDs or they are dead as a party. So if over 65 voters pick this up and turn from the Tories it could be fatal for her
    It is unsustainable and Kemi is right and I applaud her for this intervention

    You do not appear to have listened to, our understood, what she was actually saying and it was refreshing
    The LDs back keeping the triple lock as well as the WFA, Reform also back keeping the WFA, pensioners on average and above average earnings are now the Tory core vote. They cannot risk leaking them to the LDs or Reform or the Tory party will basically go extinct under FPTP
    You haven’t listened to a word she has said, but actually you are the perfect example of everything she was criticising and more importantly Kemi is the first conservative leader to pledge to help the young for a very long time

    That starts by allocating tax payers money fairly and not handing wealthy pensioners the triple lock or indeed the WFP

    Times are going to change and if you do not like the direction she outlined today, there is always Reform
    All fine and dandy and very noble but brutal political reality is not even Cameron won most under 30s so the idea Kemi is going to sweep to victory by dumping her pensioner core vote in the hope of getting them to fund the young more is just a route to Tory oblivion
    If the Conservatives are only interested in protecting pensioners’ privileges, then oblivion is what they deserve.
    They aren't but any business which trashes its core consumer will swiftly go out of business.

    Do you really think under 40s are going to vote Tory because they scrap the triple lock? No as most of them still oppose Brexit for starters unlike most pensioners.

    Building new affordable homes might win a few more under 40s to the Tories once they get some assets behind them, scrapping Triple Lock won't but could lead Tory pensioners to the LDs and Reform
    What does it say about core Conservative voters, if they think that everyone but them should make sacrifices?

    A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a neration.
    'A party whose only interest is in enriching its legacy voters, at the expense of the rest of the rest of the nation, is a party that will vanish within a generation, and a party that deserves to vanish in a generation?'

    Name me one party that doesn't enrich its core voters in government? Labour always funds the public sector more, the Tories support pensioners and the private sector more, the Liberals push socially liberal change, Reform push a hardline against immigration.

    If you abandon your legacy voters any party will go extinct and not even live to fight another day if it loses an election
    How does pushing for "socially liberal change" actually enrich any one sector of society over the rest, young HY?

    I would have thought that the Lib Dem policy of making taxation visibly fair would ease social tensions and lower the risk of rioting, thus avoiding the dangers of violence and destruction. But this would benefit everybody.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101
    edited January 17
    https://bsky.app/profile/adambienkov.bsky.social/post/3lfv7i73eq227

    Calling @HYUFD Have we always been at war with Eastasia?

    How the f do you "means test" the Triple Lock?

    You can means test the state pension which is how Labour are going to play what she has said.


    The SP is means tested at the lower end. If it is insufficient, it is top up via Pension Credit. If the suggestion is to means test for everyone then the purpose of NI contributions falls away.

    She doesn't appear to have a grasp of the issues but perhaps means testing / getting rid of NI is not on her 'menu' yet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    kle4 said:

    I'm not sure how one would go about addressing the issue, but I'd have to agree this probably won't work.

    It’s going to be impossible to keep teenage boys away from the murkier side of the internet, no matter how much governments think they can regulate it. Hint: technological solutions to social problems never work.

    The actual solutions are more difficult, a combination of good parenting and working with the adult industry to make the free sites much more ‘vanilla’ in content, with the more extreme videos behind a paywall. The latter obviously needs to be an international effort, as not much ‘adult’ material is produced in the UK, it’s mostly in the US, Europe, and Asia.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    HYUFD said:

    'The Scottish Conservative group leader on Glasgow City Council has defected to Reform UK.

    Thomas Kerr, who represents the Shettleston ward, was first elected as a 20-year-old in 2017 and became Tory group leader in 2019.

    He was the party's candidate at the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election in October 2023, but finished a distant third.

    Kerr said he had been "annoyed and angry" with the Conservatives for several months, accusing the party of failing to champion working-class communities like those in Shettleston.

    He said the Tories focused too much on criticism of the SNP and "lacked a positive vision of centre-right conservatism".

    The councillor also suggested Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay was not in control of the "broken" party.'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy48p5132qno

    Wow, Glasgow City Council has a Conservative group. One learns something every day here.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,661
    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    (Snip)

    Yeah, but SS is still SubOrbitalShip... ;)

    Seriously though: seven flights and still no load into orbit. The whole purpose of a rocket...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    edited January 17
    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    My wife saw John Voight in our local Target. I said to her "did you get him to bite a pencil for you?"

    I knew his daughter from when we shared a flying instructor at Denham Aerodrome.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    https://x.com/esaagar/status/1879988666493477179

    "Mr. Zuckerberg blamed his former chief operating officer, Sheryl Sandberg, for Facebook’s culture"

    Does anyone think that Zuck would be doing this magic about-turn if Kamala Harris was about to be sworn in as president?

    Trump’s supporters are seeing right through him.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1880031429092077946

    Twitter took a change of management to effect real change in their thinking as a company, Zuck is trying to do the same but while remaining in charge himself and shuffling the chairs underneath him.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Sandpit said:

    https://x.com/esaagar/status/1879988666493477179

    "Mr. Zuckerberg blamed his former chief operating officer, Sheryl Sandberg, for Facebook’s culture"

    Does anyone think that Zuck would be doing this magic about-turn if Kamala Harris was about to be sworn in as president?

    Trump’s supporters are seeing right through him.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1880031429092077946

    Twitter took a change of management to effect real change in their thinking as a company, Zuck is trying to do the same but while remaining in charge himself and shuffling the chairs underneath him.
    Trump and the GOP are regressive in every way.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,280

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,280
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Scottish Conservative group leader on Glasgow City Council has defected to Reform UK.

    Thomas Kerr, who represents the Shettleston ward, was first elected as a 20-year-old in 2017 and became Tory group leader in 2019.

    He was the party's candidate at the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election in October 2023, but finished a distant third.

    Kerr said he had been "annoyed and angry" with the Conservatives for several months, accusing the party of failing to champion working-class communities like those in Shettleston.

    He said the Tories focused too much on criticism of the SNP and "lacked a positive vision of centre-right conservatism".

    The councillor also suggested Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay was not in control of the "broken" party.'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy48p5132qno

    Wow, Glasgow City Council has a Conservative group. One learns something every day here.
    The wonders of STV
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,054

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    I’m no friend of the Conservatives but this was a fair effort. I’d have liked a more specific mea culpa but she’s constrained by her own participation. A lot of platitudes and some of it read like Blair in the mid-90s in terms of claiming to reward aspiration and hard work.

    “We want our country back” is the sop to Reform whose slogan this could turn out being, As might be expected after six months, we’re a very long way from a coherent view of what a Badenoch administration might be like and I’m left with the thought it might be Conservative Blairism for the 2030s.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    edited January 17
    IT
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Maybe it'll be like nursery fees where you need to earn under £100k to receive your state pension

    My assumption is that, despite paying into it and "qualifying" in NI years through decades of working, by the time I'm up to collect I get nothing.
    I believe the government will deduct from your pension the value of the hours you spent on PB when you were at work.
    Some people will end up owing them.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    My wife saw John Voight in our local Target. I said to her "did you get him to bite a pencil for you?"

    I knew his daughter from when we shared a flying instructor at Denham Aerodrome.
    Angelina?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

    Yes it does but she’s not talking about it going just means testing it.

    It’s a stupid comment and stupid intervention and has probably put proper reform of it back a few years.

    She should, IMV, have said they are looking at long term sustainability of the state pension and leave it at that. All this has done is play into the hands of her political opponents.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
    That 'firesafe' home doesn't actually look as bad a design architecturally as some of the monstrosities that burnt down. But even then, there's some luck involved. Firesafe buildings in an environment that can have wildfires should be seen as being as important as being earthquake-proof in an earthquake zone.

    Also, as in the Great Fire of London (*), maintenance matters. If you don't maintain your building in such a way as it remains firesafe, it won't be firesafe.

    (*) Apparently wattle-and-daub is fairly fire resistant. At least until it deteriorates and the daub comes off, exposing the wooden wattle, at which point it'll ignite if it even sniffs a flame.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,140
    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    Absolutely staggering. Thanks for posting.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Showing a sense of humour in a time of adversity…

    https://x.com/ericldaugh/status/1880022088347709826

    Mel Gibson has responded to Trump's appointment of him as special ambassador to Hollywood.

    Gibson lost his house in the fires...

    "I heed the call. My duty as a citizen is to give any help and insight I can. Any chance the position comes with an Ambassador's residence?"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,661
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
    There was an amusing quip by his agent, when the news of the “appointment” was put to him by journalists who asked if the envoy role came with an ambassadorial residence.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    Absolutely staggering. Thanks for posting.

    Good morning, everybody.
    It's just a party trick if they can't even get the main ship into orbit or deliver payloads...

    Seven flights, 0kg mass to orbit.

    (Yes, I'm using the same 'logic' SpaceX fans use against Blue Origin...)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    rcs1000 said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    My wife saw John Voight in our local Target. I said to her "did you get him to bite a pencil for you?"

    I knew his daughter from when we shared a flying instructor at Denham Aerodrome.
    Angelina?
    No, I think he's called Robert.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Sandpit said:

    Showing a sense of humour in a time of adversity…

    https://x.com/ericldaugh/status/1880022088347709826

    Mel Gibson has responded to Trump's appointment of him as special ambassador to Hollywood.

    Gibson lost his house in the fires...

    "I heed the call. My duty as a citizen is to give any help and insight I can. Any chance the position comes with an Ambassador's residence?"

    Holywood's leading anti-Semite near the corridors of power. Lovely.

    Trump's government really is the Mos Eisley of governments.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

    Yes it does but she’s not talking about it going just means testing it.

    It’s a stupid comment and stupid intervention and has probably put proper reform of it back a few years.

    She should, IMV, have said they are looking at long term sustainability of the state pension and leave it at that. All this has done is play into the hands of her political opponents.
    Have to agree as she is not on top of her brief. The costs of social welfare are growing significantly and the interrelationship of various statutes and the responsibilities it puts on government are complex. Soundbites don't cut it, unless the whole idea is to cause confusion and generate headlines.

    IMHO she's not a serious politician.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203
    I'm not really interested in seeing Kemi's speech - though I'd probably read a transcript if somebody put it infront of me. It doesn't seem to me that she's done or said anything new. Kemi's whole strategy has been to give no policy, focus on 'opposition', make mealy mouthed 'apologies' for the Tory time in office that don't involve any real taking of personal responsibility, and send out various 'signals' to various groups that make them hope she's on their side. She's continued that in this speech.

    It's the opposite of Jenrick's 'I will lead my party' strategy and I don't think it's an election-winning strategy, nor one likely to lead to a significant recovery.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    edited January 17
    Someone got a video of the Starship 2nd stage blowing up.

    https://x.com/fernando91ro/status/1880029801270096129

    Possibly he’s around Dominica area.

    A whole load of commercial aircraft had to turn around to avoid potential debris, very surprised the airspace wasn’t closed.

    https://x.com/djsnm/status/1880032865209184354

    Edit: this one from a cruise ship is even better at showing the explosion.

    https://x.com/flyerxt/status/1880027458642350095

    This one from Turks & Caicos islands probably the closest to the aftermath.

    https://x.com/brakeyourcycle/status/1880028197208686869

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,140

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    Absolutely staggering. Thanks for posting.

    Good morning, everybody.
    It's just a party trick if they can't even get the main ship into orbit or deliver payloads...

    Seven flights, 0kg mass to orbit.

    (Yes, I'm using the same 'logic' SpaceX fans use against Blue Origin...)
    I started from the position of supposing they know what they're trying to achieve, so this would be a step on the way. I find the capture impressive. It seems unlikely that even Elon Musk would bother to fund this as a party trick, wasting time on the way to his ultimate goal. Perhaps they have ambitions beyond just getting into orbit, who knows?

    I haven't looked at any fan rivalry, not bothered about it, but I see yout point.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    edited January 17

    I'm not really interested in seeing Kemi's speech - though I'd probably read a transcript if somebody put it infront of me. It doesn't seem to me that she's done or said anything new. Kemi's whole strategy has been to give no policy, focus on 'opposition', make mealy mouthed 'apologies' for the Tory time in office that don't involve any real taking of personal responsibility, and send out various 'signals' to various groups that make them hope she's on their side. She's continued that in this speech.

    It's the opposite of Jenrick's 'I will lead my party' strategy and I don't think it's an election-winning strategy, nor one likely to lead to a significant recovery.

    The comment about the triple lock was on a "Call Kemi" segment on LBC rather than a speech to the devoted.

    https://news.sky.com/story/tories-will-consider-means-testing-pensions-triple-lock-kemi-badenoch-says-13290398

    TBF you called it on her prior to her winning, looks like you were right.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

    Yes it does but she’s not talking about it going just means testing it.

    It’s a stupid comment and stupid intervention and has probably put proper reform of it back a few years.

    She should, IMV, have said they are looking at long term sustainability of the state pension and leave it at that. All this has done is play into the hands of her political opponents.
    Have to agree as she is not on top of her brief. The costs of social welfare are growing significantly and the interrelationship of various statutes and the responsibilities it puts on government are complex. Soundbites don't cut it, unless the whole idea is to cause confusion and generate headlines.

    IMHO she's not a serious politician.
    True, and it is a minefield, and yesterday we had the DWP's consultation on disability benefit reforms ruled unlawful by the courts so back the drawing board on that one.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/consultation-over-disability-benefits-reform-was-unlawful-high-court-rules/ar-AA1xj1NO?ocid=BingNewsSerp
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
    Three, he has more than that. He also has Hulk Hogan no less. Santa with Muscles.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    The deal is done. God knows who they negotiated with. Being a leader of Hamas is a precarious occupation these days. Rightly so, they needed to account for what happened and they did. Hopefully with Iran neutered a more pragmatic wing will emerge that cares for its people.

    Anyway It's peace. For the time being. Hopefully Bibi gets his reckoning now. Over the corruption allegations and the allegations of his enabling Hamas previously.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/netanyahu-says-deal-to-return-israel-s-hostages-is-done/ar-AA1xkaFV?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=7cd1db565b164978806c4d1113108417&ei=10
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    Absolutely staggering. Thanks for posting.

    Good morning, everybody.
    It's just a party trick if they can't even get the main ship into orbit or deliver payloads...

    Seven flights, 0kg mass to orbit.

    (Yes, I'm using the same 'logic' SpaceX fans use against Blue Origin...)
    I started from the position of supposing they know what they're trying to achieve, so this would be a step on the way. I find the capture impressive. It seems unlikely that even Elon Musk would bother to fund this as a party trick, wasting time on the way to his ultimate goal. Perhaps they have ambitions beyond just getting into orbit, who knows?

    I haven't looked at any fan rivalry, not bothered about it, but I see yout point.
    Success is uncertain, but entertainment is guaranteed! ✨
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1880040599761596689

    Seems like I should explain what the gameplan is for getting to Mars in more detail.

    Any individual launch is not very important.

    What matters is the expected date when Mars becomes a self-sustaining civilization.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1880064687330717984
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
    Three, he has more than that. He also has Hulk Hogan no less. Santa with Muscles.
    Isn’t he *really* problematic? Not repeating internet rumours for obvious reasons, but he should be locked up if they’re true, and opposition researchers would definitely do their digging if he was offered a job advising Trump.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Maybe it'll be like nursery fees where you need to earn under £100k to receive your state pension

    My assumption is that, despite paying into it and "qualifying" in NI years through decades of working, by the time I'm up to collect I get nothing.
    I believe the government will deduct from your pension the value of the hours you spent on PB when you were at work.
    Why do you think I use a pseudonym.
  • NEW THREAD

  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Good to see Donald getting stuck into Hollywood with his Special Envoys, Voight, Stallone and Gibson.

    I eagerly await the Mel Gibson reboots of Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. Won’t be even more controversial at all. No way.

    Surprised he managed to find three conservatives in Hollywood!

    Gibson’s next project is a sequel to ‘The Passion of the Christ” about the Resurrection
    https://www.screengeek.net/2025/01/15/the-passion-of-the-christ-sequel-mel-gibson-update/

    He was in Texas last week on Rogan’s podcast, and when he got home his house had burned down. It’s dropped off the news cycle but the Los Angeles fires aren’t all out yet.
    An interesting Bloomberg piece about fire-resistant building designs, a few of which stood up when all around were burned down. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-13/los-angeles-wildfires-why-these-homes-didn-t-burn
    Three, he has more than that. He also has Hulk Hogan no less. Santa with Muscles.
    Isn’t he *really* problematic? Not repeating internet rumours for obvious reasons, but he should be locked up if they’re true, and opposition researchers would definitely do their digging if he was offered a job advising Trump.
    Most of the flaws in Hogan's character are already known anyway, they would not need to do much digging.

    I cannot see him offering Hogan a job. Hogan is a greater egotist than Trump and would only really be interested in himself. Of all the wrestlers who endorsed him if he offered any a job it would probably be Kane.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    SpaceX catching a 250 tonne, 72m tall rocket, in mid air.

    https://x.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1880024248645021877

    Absolutely staggering. Thanks for posting.

    Good morning, everybody.
    It's just a party trick if they can't even get the main ship into orbit or deliver payloads...

    Seven flights, 0kg mass to orbit.

    (Yes, I'm using the same 'logic' SpaceX fans use against Blue Origin...)
    I started from the position of supposing they know what they're trying to achieve, so this would be a step on the way. I find the capture impressive. It seems unlikely that even Elon Musk would bother to fund this as a party trick, wasting time on the way to his ultimate goal. Perhaps they have ambitions beyond just getting into orbit, who knows?

    I haven't looked at any fan rivalry, not bothered about it, but I see yout point.
    To give you an idea: some SpaceX 'fans' were ripping the proverbial about New Glenn's delay from Monday, whilst remaining silent about SS's similar delays (*). And they made a big thing about NG's first stage not landing, when the main objective - successfully reaching orbit (and MEO at that) was suddenly unimportant. Because in the minds of detractors, the success of their 'enemy' just means that goalposts are shifted.

    And we see jubilant cries about catching the first stage, whilst no mention the fact the actual ship failed to reach orbit. Because the goalposts shift, and catching the first stage is the important bit. :)

    I'm starting to care less and less about SH/SOS. Because of Musk. I don't wish the project harm, and it is cool, but it is also something the people infected by the Musk Mind Virus use as evidence that their guy is right.

    (*) It is hardly unprecedented for there to be delays in new rockets, and some of the delay was weather-related.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 17
    Test
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    Edit
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    The deal is done. God knows who they negotiated with. Being a leader of Hamas is a precarious occupation these days. Rightly so, they needed to account for what happened and they did. Hopefully with Iran neutered a more pragmatic wing will emerge that cares for its people.

    Anyway It's peace. For the time being. Hopefully Bibi gets his reckoning now. Over the corruption allegations and the allegations of his enabling Hamas previously.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/netanyahu-says-deal-to-return-israel-s-hostages-is-done/ar-AA1xkaFV?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=7cd1db565b164978806c4d1113108417&ei=10

    Hamas have a horrible ideology, but are impressively resilient.

    15 months of total blockade, total bombardment and complete air and sea control by the strongest military in the Middle East, and they are still a fighting force with a command structure and able to still hold hostages, and now they are back in control of the strip.

    If it was anyone else it would go down as a great military feat.
    I'm quite amazed that you can find any reason to praise Hamas. They are not a military; like ISIS, they are an ideology - and like ISIS they are a nasty, destructive one that cares sod-all for the people they pretend to represent.

    And ideologies are *really* hard to 'kill'.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    The deal is done. God knows who they negotiated with. Being a leader of Hamas is a precarious occupation these days. Rightly so, they needed to account for what happened and they did. Hopefully with Iran neutered a more pragmatic wing will emerge that cares for its people.

    Anyway It's peace. For the time being. Hopefully Bibi gets his reckoning now. Over the corruption allegations and the allegations of his enabling Hamas previously.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/netanyahu-says-deal-to-return-israel-s-hostages-is-done/ar-AA1xkaFV?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=7cd1db565b164978806c4d1113108417&ei=10

    Hamas have a horrible ideology, but are impressively resilient.

    15 months of total blockade, total bombardment and complete air and sea control by the strongest military in the Middle East, and they are still a fighting force with a command structure and able to still hold hostages, and now they are back in control of the strip.

    If it was anyone else it would go down as a great military feat.
    I'm quite amazed that you can find any reason to praise Hamas. They are not a military; like ISIS, they are an ideology - and like ISIS they are a nasty, destructive one that cares sod-all for the people they pretend to represent.

    And ideologies are *really* hard to 'kill'.
    Sure, like the Viet Kong or the SS they have a repulsive ideology, but they are still in the field and will be left in control.

    It shows the impossibility of a military solution to the issue of a Palestinian state.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    Sandpit said:

    Someone got a video of the Starship 2nd stage blowing up.

    https://x.com/fernando91ro/status/1880029801270096129

    Possibly he’s around Dominica area.

    A whole load of commercial aircraft had to turn around to avoid potential debris, very surprised the airspace wasn’t closed.

    https://x.com/djsnm/status/1880032865209184354

    Edit: this one from a cruise ship is even better at showing the explosion.

    https://x.com/flyerxt/status/1880027458642350095

    This one from Turks & Caicos islands probably the closest to the aftermath.

    https://x.com/brakeyourcycle/status/1880028197208686869

    So pretty...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    The deal is done. God knows who they negotiated with. Being a leader of Hamas is a precarious occupation these days. Rightly so, they needed to account for what happened and they did. Hopefully with Iran neutered a more pragmatic wing will emerge that cares for its people.

    Anyway It's peace. For the time being. Hopefully Bibi gets his reckoning now. Over the corruption allegations and the allegations of his enabling Hamas previously.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/netanyahu-says-deal-to-return-israel-s-hostages-is-done/ar-AA1xkaFV?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=7cd1db565b164978806c4d1113108417&ei=10

    Hamas have a horrible ideology, but are impressively resilient.

    15 months of total blockade, total bombardment and complete air and sea control by the strongest military in the Middle East, and they are still a fighting force with a command structure and able to still hold hostages, and now they are back in control of the strip.

    If it was anyone else it would go down as a great military feat.
    I'm quite amazed that you can find any reason to praise Hamas. They are not a military; like ISIS, they are an ideology - and like ISIS they are a nasty, destructive one that cares sod-all for the people they pretend to represent.

    And ideologies are *really* hard to 'kill'.
    Sure, like the Viet Kong or the SS they have a repulsive ideology, but they are still in the field and will be left in control.

    It shows the impossibility of a military solution to the issue of a Palestinian state.
    Yet in their view, there is a military solution to the issue of an Israeli state. And we saw part of that in October 2023.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

    Yes it does but she’s not talking about it going just means testing it.

    It’s a stupid comment and stupid intervention and has probably put proper reform of it back a few years.

    She should, IMV, have said they are looking at long term sustainability of the state pension and leave it at that. All this has done is play into the hands of her political opponents.
    Have to agree as she is not on top of her brief. The costs of social welfare are growing significantly and the interrelationship of various statutes and the responsibilities it puts on government are complex. Soundbites don't cut it, unless the whole idea is to cause confusion and generate headlines.

    IMHO she's not a serious politician.
    It's the onlineness again, where every question and every answer are 280 characters max.

    Leaving aside the brute politics, pension policy is difficult. Actions have consequences that play out over decades. The key one here is that if you means-test the basic pension, it rewards the grasshoppers at the expense of the ants, and that discourages people saving for their retirements.

    Full marks for courage Kemi, but minus several thousand for wisdom.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,129

    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    Doubtless that is Kemi’s cunning plan, whereupon she will leap seamlessly into defending it.
    I think it more likely that she will deny that she said it, she has form for that.

    She should stick to her guns though. The Triple Lock needs to go.

    Yes it does but she’s not talking about it going just means testing it.

    It’s a stupid comment and stupid intervention and has probably put proper reform of it back a few years.

    She should, IMV, have said they are looking at long term sustainability of the state pension and leave it at that. All this has done is play into the hands of her political opponents.
    Have to agree as she is not on top of her brief. The costs of social welfare are growing significantly and the interrelationship of various statutes and the responsibilities it puts on government are complex. Soundbites don't cut it, unless the whole idea is to cause confusion and generate headlines.

    IMHO she's not a serious politician.
    It's the onlineness again, where every question and every answer are 280 characters max.

    Leaving aside the brute politics, pension policy is difficult. Actions have consequences that play out over decades. The key one here is that if you means-test the basic pension, it rewards the grasshoppers at the expense of the ants, and that discourages people saving for their retirements.

    Full marks for courage Kemi, but minus several thousand for wisdom.
    What’s the experience like in Australia, as they means test the whole thing. Has that led to a collapse in people saving?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    edited January 17
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Someone got a video of the Starship 2nd stage blowing up.

    https://x.com/fernando91ro/status/1880029801270096129

    Possibly he’s around Dominica area.

    A whole load of commercial aircraft had to turn around to avoid potential debris, very surprised the airspace wasn’t closed.

    https://x.com/djsnm/status/1880032865209184354

    Edit: this one from a cruise ship is even better at showing the explosion.

    https://x.com/flyerxt/status/1880027458642350095

    This one from Turks & Caicos islands probably the closest to the aftermath.

    https://x.com/brakeyourcycle/status/1880028197208686869

    So pretty...
    So long as they’re unmanned prototypes, it’s great to watch rockets fail as the engineers push the boundaries. Obviously not so much when there’s humans on board, or someone’s billion-dollar payload.

    What SpaceX and Blue Origin are doing is a fantastic pushing of the boundaries of human endeavour. I could watch that rocket being caught by the ‘chopsticks’ all day, it’s just brilliant in its insanity.
  • I'm not really interested in seeing Kemi's speech - though I'd probably read a transcript if somebody put it infront of me. It doesn't seem to me that she's done or said anything new. Kemi's whole strategy has been to give no policy, focus on 'opposition', make mealy mouthed 'apologies' for the Tory time in office that don't involve any real taking of personal responsibility, and send out various 'signals' to various groups that make them hope she's on their side. She's continued that in this speech.

    It's the opposite of Jenrick's 'I will lead my party' strategy and I don't think it's an election-winning strategy, nor one likely to lead to a significant recovery.

    I know there is a lot happening at CCHQ and I guess you must know that as well. Good management stuff that should have been done in 2017. I didn't vote for Kemi because I thought she would be dismissed as a coconut and probably wouldn't be able to string together a coherent message. If Jenrick had been selected then no doubt he would still have all the planning bullshit thrown at him. Kemi has done much better than I expected and she deserves your support as well as mine.

    Her, and the whole right's biggest issue at the moment if Farage's ego. His current insistence that the future of this country is subordinate to a debate between the bigendians and littleendians of Gullivers Travels needs to be exposed for the distraction it is. If he would rather be leader of some bigendian sect in opposition rather than a cabinet member in the Government of National Recovery which this country needs NOW then let him so remain. At the moment this rift on the right can be healed. If it had been healed then there would be no question that the right would win the Runcorn byelection. As a Conservative I would rather see a Reform MP in Runcorn than a Labour one. But if money is no object for Reform then they should be sending leaflets out by mailsort every bloody day, just like the LDs probably are NOW before the by-election is called and expenses triggered. But no, they would rather spread some lying shit about Kemi. I can't say I like Farage but unlike Starmer he isn't evil.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037

    I'm not really interested in seeing Kemi's speech - though I'd probably read a transcript if somebody put it infront of me. It doesn't seem to me that she's done or said anything new. Kemi's whole strategy has been to give no policy, focus on 'opposition', make mealy mouthed 'apologies' for the Tory time in office that don't involve any real taking of personal responsibility, and send out various 'signals' to various groups that make them hope she's on their side. She's continued that in this speech.

    It's the opposite of Jenrick's 'I will lead my party' strategy and I don't think it's an election-winning strategy, nor one likely to lead to a significant recovery.

    I know there is a lot happening at CCHQ and I guess you must know that as well. Good management stuff that should have been done in 2017. I didn't vote for Kemi because I thought she would be dismissed as a coconut and probably wouldn't be able to string together a coherent message. If Jenrick had been selected then no doubt he would still have all the planning bullshit thrown at him. Kemi has done much better than I expected and she deserves your support as well as mine.

    Her, and the whole right's biggest issue at the moment if Farage's ego. His current insistence that the future of this country is subordinate to a debate between the bigendians and littleendians of Gullivers Travels needs to be exposed for the distraction it is. If he would rather be leader of some bigendian sect in opposition rather than a cabinet member in the Government of National Recovery which this country needs NOW then let him so remain. At the moment this rift on the right can be healed. If it had been healed then there would be no question that the right would win the Runcorn byelection. As a Conservative I would rather see a Reform MP in Runcorn than a Labour one. But if money is no object for Reform then they should be sending leaflets out by mailsort every bloody day, just like the LDs probably are NOW before the by-election is called and expenses triggered. But no, they would rather spread some lying shit about Kemi. I can't say I like Farage but unlike Starmer he isn't evil.
    Do you really think Starmer is evil? You might disagree with everything he does and says, but evil?

    And coconut seems very very inappropriate description of Kemi.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,312
    edited January 17
    stodge said:

    Good on Kemi for attempting some form of honesty.
    The idea of “means testing the triple lock” is incoherent, especially when in the next breath she complains about the means testing of the winter fuel allowance, but coherency is perhaps too much to expect from any of the political parties in the UK now.

    Hopefully this emboldens Labour to phase out the triple lock from 2029, something they ought to have announced in the famously shite budget.

    I’m no friend of the Conservatives but this was a fair effort. I’d have liked a more specific mea culpa but she’s constrained by her own participation. A lot of platitudes and some of it read like Blair in the mid-90s in terms of claiming to reward aspiration and hard work.

    “We want our country back” is the sop to Reform whose slogan this could turn out being, As might be expected after six months, we’re a very long way from a coherent view of what a Badenoch administration might be like and I’m left with the thought it might be Conservative Blairism for the 2030s.
    Did Kemi say "we want our country back"? I admit I missed that one, if so.

    That's a core Reform slogan Lee Anderson used on the day he switched from the Cons to Reform, and has been all over his rhetoric ever since, and for all I know previously.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-PvvPe3cWQ

    If Kemi's opposition to Reform UK consists of climbing into a caveman costume and dancing the Knuckledragger, she's going precisely nowhere beyond competing for a minority of the vote by reducing herself to their level. The far right gullible-groomers on Youtube are better at that. She can't afford to be a nothing or a shadow imo.

    And I'd agree it will take time to see where this goes. That's where I think she needs to draw a line, and then create a brand on the civilised side of it.

    I have not yet heard her reach for BNP slogans, unlike some.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 939
    What we do not know is whether the Lib Dems would run a full blooded campaign. Recently they have been coming from way back in northern local election Labour seats to challenge and even win.
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