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The by-election nobody wants? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,254
edited January 16 in General
imageThe by-election nobody wants? – politicalbetting.com

Suspended Labour MP Mike Amesbury pleads guilty to assault after punching a man in his Cheshire constituency in October 2024 https://t.co/rHUFR5ArkK

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    According to my theory, good news for Reform in Labour areas is good for the Tories nationally, so they should secretly hope Reform win it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    Likewise, I reckon it's Reform's for the taking/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.
  • rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    He sent me the photo of him meeting Bill Clinton in the oval office.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Reform are going to win a by-election, aren’t they?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,906
    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Not Major, then ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    edited January 16
    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Meeting politicians is quite easy tho, So I am afraid one has to deduct points. Likewise royalty

    These people - pols and royals - have to go out meet other people, it’s their job. Even the most humdrum party worker or activist or even hustings attender can therefore meet a few PMs without breaking a sweat

    Meeting famous sport stars, artists, actors - actually MEETING them, conversing, snogging, doing a line of changaroo - is significantly more impressive
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Reform already second in Runcorn will have a good chance of taking the seat on current polls with by election protest vote and Tory tactical votes to beat Labour. Not one poll has the Tories behind the LDs on seats and indeed even the few polls with Reform second nationally ahead of the Tories still actually have the Tories up a few seats on the general election because of gains from Labour.

    It is possible there is no by election anyway if Amesbury only gets a community order. Little chance of McMurdock standing down, Reform are sticking by him and it was a conviction long spent. Indeed on current polls he will likely increase his majority in his Basildon seat at the next general election
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    I don't agree. Runcorn itself is outer Liverpool which for the past fifteen years has been unusually loyal to Labour. I suspect enough of the vote will come out.
    And Helsby and Frodsham, which I know reasonably well, doesn't feel to me like natural Reform territory. Frodsham in particular is pretty comfortably off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580

    According to my theory, good news for Reform in Labour areas is good for the Tories nationally, so they should secretly hope Reform win it.

    Where Reform were second to Labour last July not the Tories yes
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 118
    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    I have met/been in the same room as Obama and Trump.
    Properly met, The Queen, Prince Philip, The King, The Prince and Princess of Wales, the Sussex's
    Boris, Truss and Rishi.
    Elton John and Chris De Burgh. And my personal favourite, Raj from the big bang theory.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    Pleasing. And I think it will get notably worse for Labour over time

    But what is this Tory mini surge? Plus five?!
  • Leon said:

    Pleasing. And I think it will get notably worse for Labour over time

    But what is this Tory mini surge? Plus five?!
    It’s a partial correction to the previous poll which had the Tories down 3.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Leon said:

    Pleasing. And I think it will get notably worse for Labour over time

    But what is this Tory mini surge? Plus five?!
    It’s a partial correction to the previous poll which had the Tories down 3.
    Makes sense

    Sadly, I don’t think Kemi B has seized the imagination of the nation and is benefiting from rhapsodic adulation

    My hunch is that polls will stay like this for a while but with Reform slowly edging up and Labour slowly eroding down….

    And on that cluster bomb, Vikings Valhalla
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    FPT:

    I surreptiously fed bags of Maltesers to Lauren Bacall on set.

    Wife of Bogart.

    Lover of Sinatra.

    Friend of Hemingway. (Although his wife warned her off by dropping two bullets into her hand. "I'm a good shot. I won't need both....")

    I also - soto voce - sang The Gremlin song to her rather horrible Papillon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    edited January 16

    Leon said:

    Pleasing. And I think it will get notably worse for Labour over time

    But what is this Tory mini surge? Plus five?!
    It’s a partial correction to the previous poll which had the Tories down 3.
    The polls appear to be levelling out to three parties on pretty much the same number. The two big parties are on their core vote now, not their last-ditch-core vote and Reform has taken a big bite out both.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    I have met/been in the same room as Obama and Trump.
    Properly met, The Queen, Prince Philip, The King, The Prince and Princess of Wales, the Sussex's
    Boris, Truss and Rishi.
    Elton John and Chris De Burgh. And my personal favourite, Raj from the big bang theory.
    (Apols for everyone who has heard this before...)

    I once had a chat with Bernie Ecclestone about concrete. I met most of the early-/mid-nineties F1 drivers. And I had dinner with Princess Anne, where we talked about whether horse riding was nature or nurture.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,819
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    I don't agree. Runcorn itself is outer Liverpool which for the past fifteen years has been unusually loyal to Labour. I suspect enough of the vote will come out.
    And Helsby and Frodsham, which I know reasonably well, doesn't feel to me like natural Reform territory. Frodsham in particular is pretty comfortably off.
    A lot of chemical works though. For how long?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    I have met/been in the same room as Obama and Trump.
    Properly met, The Queen, Prince Philip, The King, The Prince and Princess of Wales, the Sussex's
    Boris, Truss and Rishi.
    Elton John and Chris De Burgh. And my personal favourite, Raj from the big bang theory.
    I've a dubious claim for Princess Anne. She'd have shaken my hand if I'd been a few places to the left or right as she moved along the line.

    But I can never remember the minor royals, especially since all their titles changed after HMQ died. Are the Sussexes Prince Edward and his missus? Never mind, I'll look it up in a minute. Or maybe they got Edinburgh. This must be what it is like on Who Wants to be a Millionaire? when nervous contestants squander three lifelines to confirm it's the answer they first thought of.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766

    FPT:

    I surreptiously fed bags of Maltesers to Lauren Bacall on set.

    Wife of Bogart.

    Lover of Sinatra.

    Friend of Hemingway. (Although his wife warned her off by dropping two bullets into her hand. "I'm a good shot. I won't need both....")

    I also - soto voce - sang The Gremlin song to her rather horrible Papillon.

    More impressively, you've met your wife!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 16
    Yeah, MEGA plays wannabe MEGA.

    I wonder what the Tories have done since the last poll to go up five to 25%?

    Still, it is just mid- term blues, I suspect we all expect swingback.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 118
    edited January 16

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    I have met/been in the same room as Obama and Trump.
    Properly met, The Queen, Prince Philip, The King, The Prince and Princess of Wales, the Sussex's
    Boris, Truss and Rishi.
    Elton John and Chris De Burgh. And my personal favourite, Raj from the big bang theory.
    I've a dubious claim for Princess Anne. She'd have shaken my hand if I'd been a few places to the left or right as she moved along the line.

    But I can never remember the minor royals, especially since all their titles changed after HMQ died. Are the Sussexes Prince Edward and his missus? Never mind, I'll look it up in a minute. Or maybe they got Edinburgh. This must be what it is like on Who Wants to be a Millionaire? when nervous contestants squander three lifelines to confirm it's the answer they first thought of.
    The Sussex's as in them exiled to a burning hillside in California (or there abouts)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Meeting politicians is quite easy tho, So I am afraid one has to deduct points. Likewise royalty

    These people - pols and royals - have to go out meet other people, it’s their job. Even the most humdrum party worker or activist or even hustings attender can therefore meet a few PMs without breaking a sweat

    Meeting famous sport stars, artists, actors - actually MEETING them, conversing, snogging, doing a line of changaroo - is significantly more impressive
    Why is it more impressive to snog a famous sports star than a normal shop worker?

    It’s just two people who fancied each other at that particular moment in time
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    Oh, and I've met The Hoff.

    Out of his head at the urinals. At a late night knees up at Althorp House. With Chris de Burgh, Jimmy Ruffin, Lady Di's brother and some of Duran Duran.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,062
    This is one of the 90 or so seats in which Reform finished second to Labour that are often inked in as likely Reform gains from Labour at the next election, should Labour continue to struggle, the Tories fail to recover and Farage continue his relentless rise to the top of British politics.

    So you would think this would be a massive opportunity for Reform in a by-election. If we imagine the Lib Dems being in this situation, then we'd be sure that they would have been working the seat since the news of the assault first broke and building a team to win the by-election.

    Given that Reform's membership has surpassed 100k, you might expect a few hundred members in a seat like this. Is there any evidence of local organisation being put together to contest any by-election strongly?

    Of course, we normally hear about local Lib Dems organisation in a place like this because there are a couple of dozen Lib Dems members who post to PB.com. Do we have any Reform members who can provide similar info on how the party is limbering up for the challenge?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    I’m not going to answer the question. Don’t want to boast.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    First!

    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the most "famous" person you've met? Question of the day on PB.

    Mike Smithson and Nick Palmer at various PB meets over the years.
    Either David Steel or Jane Goodall.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    edited January 16

    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    I’m not going to answer the question. Don’t want to boast.
    Although I’ve probably been friendly with more mass murderers than anyone else on this board
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 16

    Oh, and I've met The Hoff.

    Out of his head at the urinals. At a late night knees up at Althorp House. With Chris de Burgh, Jimmy Ruffin, Lady Di's brother and some of Duran Duran.

    Did I mention before (of course I did) I went to school with Nick Bates (Rhodes) of Duran Duran, and my mum knew Jean, Nigel (John) Taylor's mum. Nigel went to the Abbey High School in Redditch, and I didn't, so I didn't know him personally. I read Taylor's book and know several people referenced. His dilemma noted in his book as to whether Midland Red buses were better than WMPTE (old Birmingham Corporation) buses was a conundrum I also faced. Of course, Midland Red every day of the week.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    This is one of the 90 or so seats in which Reform finished second to Labour that are often inked in as likely Reform gains from Labour at the next election, should Labour continue to struggle, the Tories fail to recover and Farage continue his relentless rise to the top of British politics.

    So you would think this would be a massive opportunity for Reform in a by-election. If we imagine the Lib Dems being in this situation, then we'd be sure that they would have been working the seat since the news of the assault first broke and building a team to win the by-election.

    Given that Reform's membership has surpassed 100k, you might expect a few hundred members in a seat like this. Is there any evidence of local organisation being put together to contest any by-election strongly?

    Of course, we normally hear about local Lib Dems organisation in a place like this because there are a couple of dozen Lib Dems members who post to PB.com. Do we have any Reform members who can provide similar info on how the party is limbering up for the challenge?

    Reform have been working the seat quite hard I think.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    FPT:

    I surreptiously fed bags of Maltesers to Lauren Bacall on set.

    Wife of Bogart.

    Lover of Sinatra.

    Friend of Hemingway. (Although his wife warned her off by dropping two bullets into her hand. "I'm a good shot. I won't need both....")

    I also - soto voce - sang The Gremlin song to her rather horrible Papillon.

    My Mum was fed chocolate biscuits by Melanie Klein.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,062
    Apparently Starmer has today promised 150 new artillery pieces for Ukraine - the first to be made in the UK for 20 years. Ah, these are artillery barrels. To be made by Sheffield Forgemasters - remember them?

    Interesting that the British ability to bodge something together still seems to be in evidence with the new Gravehawk air defence system.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/45-billion-military-boost-to-ukraine-front-line-to-support-uk-growth-and-jobs

    (That's £4.5bn, not £45bn, as decimal points are stripped from numbers in URLs such as this.)

    It is promising to see new things being sent.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    edited January 16

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Meeting politicians is quite easy tho, So I am afraid one has to deduct points. Likewise royalty

    These people - pols and royals - have to go out meet other people, it’s their job. Even the most humdrum party worker or activist or even hustings attender can therefore meet a few PMs without breaking a sweat

    Meeting famous sport stars, artists, actors - actually MEETING them, conversing, snogging, doing a line of changaroo - is significantly more impressive
    Why is it more impressive to snog a famous sports star than a normal shop worker?

    It’s just two people who fancied each other at that particular moment in time
    Snogged: 1 (now, not then) MP
    Kissed: 1 (then, not now) member of an England football team
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 16
    I was downstairs in Fortnums last year and Bill Nighy was doing his grocery shopping.

    Although I suppose who hasn't seen Bill Nighy in Fortnums?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,132
    The Tory vote would largely collapse in favour of RefUK if there was a by-election in this seat imo.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,038
    edited January 16
    FWIW I think if there were a Runcorn by-election, the Tory chance would be virtually nil, and it would be a Labour v Reform contest.

    The result would be genuinely informative about Reform prospects. If they did badly or if they did OK but lost, something would be learned about future possibilities. If they won, it would be the start of something significant and they would gain massive national publicity.

    Betting wise, there is a chance that Reform would be underpriced early on.

    Reform will want this battle. For the Tories it's a loser in every way. If they fight strongly or give up and lose badly - which they will - the message is clear.

    At this moment I think there is a roughly 50% chance for both Reform and Labour.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    Andy_JS said:

    The Tory vote would largely collapse in favour of RefUK if there was a by-election in this seat imo.

    algarkirk said:

    FWIW I think if there were a Runcorn by-election, the Tory chance would be virtually nil, and it would be a Labour v Reform contest.

    The result would be genuinely informative about Reform prospects. If they did badly or if they did OK but lost, something would be learned about future possibilities. If they won, it would be the start of something significant and they would gain massive national publicity.

    Betting wise, there is a chance that Reform would be underpriced early on.

    Reform will want this battle. For the Tories it's a loser in every way. If they fight strongly or give up and lose badly - which they will - the message is clear.

    Both true. Punishishing Labour and the Tories in one hit is a big prize for Lord Nigel of Farage.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    On topic, Reform play to different rules. The fact that they have a domestic abuser as an MP is no constraint on them, unlike mainstream established parties. Those who actually care are unlikely to be voting for them already. Those who don't - or who rationalise it away as 'not an important thing compared with beating Labour / the Tories etc' - won't be affected.

    In any case, it'd be unlikely to be a major plank of the election campaign (speaking from experience in Wakefield). Reform have other issues to go on and it doesn't swing many votes anyway. The individual has been held to account and will be gone if an election occurs.

    Noting the tweet, a stupid comment from Barker-Singh given that Labour won an outright majority and the Tories and Reform by no means fish exclusively in the same pool.

    All said, I would expect Reform to start as favourites, although it's worth noting that UKIP didn't perform particularly well in the predecessor seats in their high-point of 2015.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    Foss said:
    Not the first. Find Out Now also had Labour in third in their 4 Dec poll (L 23 / C 26 / R 24).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    So, am I right that a suspended sentence would trigger a recall petition, but a community order wouldn't?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    On meeting PMs, I think I've met four (including ex-PMs), all pretty fleeting at social events or book signings.

    I was sat in a tea-room in Wales with an ex-Aussie PM once too. Didn't say anything though.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,038
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    I don't agree. Runcorn itself is outer Liverpool which for the past fifteen years has been unusually loyal to Labour. I suspect enough of the vote will come out.
    And Helsby and Frodsham, which I know reasonably well, doesn't feel to me like natural Reform territory. Frodsham in particular is pretty comfortably off.
    Reform's chance at Runcorn - which I put at about 50% as things stand - is simply this: few will turn out, and there are no reasons to turn out for Labour - they already have a million MPs and have just removed grandma's WFA and lost you your 16 hours a week job at Next, and no reasons to turn out for the Tories because they were and are useless beyond belief and a total irrelevance.

    There is a reason to turn out for Reform - they are the only party that isn't tainted by government and won't make you install a heat pump that doesn't work and power your car by windmills.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223
    Foss said:
    So it's pretty clearly a three-way tie within the margin of sampling error?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    Apparently Starmer has today promised 150 new artillery pieces for Ukraine - the first to be made in the UK for 20 years. Ah, these are artillery barrels. To be made by Sheffield Forgemasters - remember them?

    Interesting that the British ability to bodge something together still seems to be in evidence with the new Gravehawk air defence system.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/45-billion-military-boost-to-ukraine-front-line-to-support-uk-growth-and-jobs

    (That's £4.5bn, not £45bn, as decimal points are stripped from numbers in URLs such as this.)

    It is promising to see new things being sent.

    It's often the case that "doctrinally incorrect" weapon systems are rapidly improvised, when doctrine and reality have a falling out on the battlefield.

    Previously, there have been a number of occasions where various UK missiles designed for air launch, have shown up on ground based launchers in Ukraine. Some appeared to be adapted test launch systems from trial ranges.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    kamski said:

    Oh, and I've met The Hoff.

    Out of his head at the urinals. At a late night knees up at Althorp House. With Chris de Burgh, Jimmy Ruffin, Lady Di's brother and some of Duran Duran.

    Pah. I once shared a flat with the brother of someone who was in EMF.

    UNBELIEVABLE!
    What the f**k was that?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,143
    edited January 16
    Andy_JS said:

    The Tory vote would largely collapse in favour of RefUK if there was a by-election in this seat imo.

    To the extent it's more of a disaster for them than for Labour? It could be, especially if a Reform challenger agitates a surprisingly high turnout among Labour/Green/Lib Dem tactical voters , and a few thousand residual Conservative voters makes the difference.

    "Vote Tory, get Miliband" - ouch.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    Obviously, living in LA you meet famous people in the entertainment industry all the time. May favourite recent one was Ed Norton, whose daughter was in the same musical theatre production as my son. (Matt Berninger from the National used to be a parent at my kids' school, and Christina Agliera still is.)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766

    On meeting PMs, I think I've met four (including ex-PMs), all pretty fleeting at social events or book signings.

    I was sat in a tea-room in Wales with an ex-Aussie PM once too. Didn't say anything though.

    Oh, I'd forgotten book signings. Tony Benn dashed off a couple of paragraphs in one volume or other of his diaries: completely illegible; he'd have made a first-rate general practitioner.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    algarkirk said:

    FWIW I think if there were a Runcorn by-election, the Tory chance would be virtually nil, and it would be a Labour v Reform contest.

    The result would be genuinely informative about Reform prospects. If they did badly or if they did OK but lost, something would be learned about future possibilities. If they won, it would be the start of something significant and they would gain massive national publicity.

    Betting wise, there is a chance that Reform would be underpriced early on.

    Reform will want this battle. For the Tories it's a loser in every way. If they fight strongly or give up and lose badly - which they will - the message is clear.

    At this moment I think there is a roughly 50% chance for both Reform and Labour.

    I would think Reform would be favorites from day one!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    I met David Milliband at the zoo in New York.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    I’ve sung “Your Song” to a former Australian PM.
    My brother peed next to Kanye West at a urinal.
    I have danced with Ringo Starr.

    My wife has met everyone from Oprah to Madonna.

    Oh, fashionista Phoebe Philo told me she was going to the bar and asked if I wanted any chips at a David Byrne concert.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,980
    Driver said:

    Foss said:
    So it's pretty clearly a three-way tie within the margin of sampling error?
    Particularly as the poll shares add up to 102% so there'll be some pretty marginal decimals rounding up.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
    Nigel will reverse take over the Tory party name once they hit low teens.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    I see the Lib Dems have come out in favour of a customs union with the EU on the eve of Donald Trump declaring a trade war on them.

    Bloody idiots.

    It is very difficult to determine who is the most stupid party at Westminster now.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    FPT

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the most "famous" person you've met? Question of the day on PB.

    I've met six British Prime Ministers.
    Including Truss? She only counts half.
    Not including Truss.
    If I list them as Avuncular, Charming, Intelligent, Smarmy, Needy and Tetchy you should be able to figure out who they all are.
    Avuncular - Major
    Charming - Blair
    Intelligent - Brown
    Smarmy - Cameron
    Needy - May
    Tetchy - Boris

    ?
    I've met four of these but only Cameron is successfully aligned with his adjective!
    You joined in 2019 so I'll assume you're a young fella and haven't met the earlier ones. That leaves us with

    Brown - Tetchy
    Cameron - Smarmy
    May - Charming
    Boris - Avuncular
    Truss - Needy
    Sunak - Intelligent

    If you are an older person that leaves us with

    Callaghan - Avuncular
    Thatcher - Intelligent
    Major - Needy
    Blair - Charming
    Brown - Tetchy
    Cameron - Smarmy

    Callaghan is correct. I met him as a child, he was a friend and former neighbour of my grandparents and I met him at their golden wedding anniversary.
    So we have

    Callaghan - Avuncular
    Cameron - Smarmy

    Are your 6 PMs in order and complete or are there gaps (eg Callaghan, Thatcher, Brown)?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495
    rcs1000 said:

    I met David Milliband at the zoo in New York.

    The Central Park one?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,143
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tory vote would largely collapse in favour of RefUK if there was a by-election in this seat imo.

    To the extent it's more of a disaster for them than for Labour? It could be, especially if a Reform challenger agitates a surprisingly high turnout among Labour/Green/Lib Dem tactical voters , and a few thousand residual Conservative voters makes the difference.

    "Vote Tory, get Miliband" - ouch.
    I should've read the header...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,495

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
    Nigel will reverse take over the Tory party name once they hit low teens.
    Is this an Ivor Caplin reference.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 16
    .

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
    Nigel will reverse take over the Tory party name once they hit low teens.
    Possibly. Although he's a little too left wing for Team Jenrick's tastes.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,999
    kamski said:

    Oh, and I've met The Hoff.

    Out of his head at the urinals. At a late night knees up at Althorp House. With Chris de Burgh, Jimmy Ruffin, Lady Di's brother and some of Duran Duran.

    Pah. I once shared a flat with the brother of someone who was in EMF.

    UNBELIEVABLE!
    Is that his CURRENT status?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
    Nigel will reverse take over the Tory party name once they hit low teens.
    Is this an Ivor Caplin reference.
    Ivor no idea who he is, so no.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    I once met David Cameron in a state of undress. This will give @TSE the horn.

    On the other hand my three year old granddaughter goes to School with 2 of BoJos offspring and with Elon Musk's godson.

    She's better connected than I am.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,204

    I see the Lib Dems have come out in favour of a customs union with the EU on the eve of Donald Trump declaring a trade war on them.

    Bloody idiots.

    It is very difficult to determine who is the most stupid party at Westminster now.

    In the old days it was usually the DUP (SF not taking their seats) but the British parties seem to have learned the wrong lessons of tribalism, boneheadedness and economic illiteracy from our colleagues across the water.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    I don't agree. Runcorn itself is outer Liverpool which for the past fifteen years has been unusually loyal to Labour. I suspect enough of the vote will come out.
    And Helsby and Frodsham, which I know reasonably well, doesn't feel to me like natural Reform territory. Frodsham in particular is pretty comfortably off.
    Reform's chance at Runcorn - which I put at about 50% as things stand - is simply this: few will turn out, and there are no reasons to turn out for Labour - they already have a million MPs and have just removed grandma's WFA and lost you your 16 hours a week job at Next, and no reasons to turn out for the Tories because they were and are useless beyond belief and a total irrelevance.

    There is a reason to turn out for Reform - they are the only party that isn't tainted by government and won't make you install a heat pump that doesn't work and power your car by windmills.
    I have family in the Cheshire section of the seat. I don't know for sure but my best guess is that votes for LD/Lab/DNV/Lab will become votes for Con/DNV/DNV/DNV. I'd be surprised if any vote Ref. Though guesswork and anecdata and its from an atypical part of the seat, so, treat with caution.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 739
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OGH has met Bill Clinton and Bill Gates, as well as a few minor UK Prime Ministers.

    Meeting politicians is quite easy tho, So I am afraid one has to deduct points. Likewise royalty

    These people - pols and royals - have to go out meet other people, it’s their job. Even the most humdrum party worker or activist or even hustings attender can therefore meet a few PMs without breaking a sweat

    Meeting famous sport stars, artists, actors - actually MEETING them, conversing, snogging, doing a line of changaroo - is significantly more impressive
    I had a curry with Ed Tudor Pole (of Crystal Maze, Tenpole Tudor and briefly Sex Pistols fame). I went to see a gig he was doing in Spalding and he was sitting by himself in an Indian restaurant so I invited him to join our table. Truly lovely guy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758

    First!

    Andy_JS said:

    Who's the most "famous" person you've met? Question of the day on PB.

    Mike Smithson and Nick Palmer at various PB meets over the years.
    John Cleese, Jenson Button, Bill Bailey, the current Duke of Edinburgh, Bobby Charlton, Alice Roberts, Marcus Trescothick, Lawrie Mcmenemy...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,038

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    It won't be close, Reform very easily and it will propel them into a persistent national lead for the next year too.
    I think there’s a good chance Reform UK will win. I am less convinced that winning would propel them into a persistent national lead. It’s certainly great publicity if they do win, but I don’t think by-election wins have that much effect on national fundamentals. They are a symptom, not a cause.
    The cause is the Tories and client media attacking the state of Britain. Bizarrely they think this helps them when it just helps Reform. The by-election is an accelerant.
    The client media started their campaign on 5th July, presumably assuming that the Tories could come back almost immediately. Progress remained slow, and then Trump won and the right wing populist narrative has gained substantial traction. Even on here some previously populist shrinking violets have come out swinging for Musk, Farage, and remarkably Tommy is not always the persona non grata he once was since Trump's win.

    I am conflicted as to whether Suella is right and the Tories need to jump into bed with Reform or Farage is right and he doesn't need the Tory party.
    My intuition (guess) at the moment is that Farage needs Tories but not the Tory party. The party remains toxic for everyone apart from the irremovable 20+%, the mirror image of Labour's payroll vote.

    I don't look at/read the Tory client media but another intuition (guess) is that at some point some might decide - if they haven't already - that supporting the Tories is about as popular as supporting the Taliban or Hitler in 1940.

    You only have to listen to/read Rory, Gauke, Grieve, Clarke, Hague, Parris a bit to realise that the Tory party doesn't actually exist at the moment.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    Obviously, living in LA you meet famous people in the entertainment industry all the time. May favourite recent one was Ed Norton, whose daughter was in the same musical theatre production as my son. (Matt Berninger from the National used to be a parent at my kids' school, and Christina Agliera still is.)
    I had Gal Gadot and Halma Sayek as Co-parents. It was funny to watch my fellow fathers flock around Gal 😂

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,253
    "Turner’s support for Ukraine aid and his handling of the surveillance bill — renewing so-called Section 702 powers — sparked unrest among ultraconservatives"

    https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/15/johnson-removes-mike-turner-as-intel-chair-00198522

    "Johnson cited Trump as a reason for the ouster when the speaker met with Turner Wednesday night, according to a person familiar with the conversation who was granted anonymity to describe it."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,766
    ‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job
    The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/16/ex-tory-mp-unemployed-political-views/ (£££)

    Set up an employment agency and you can meet any number of forcibly-retired MPs.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This will be a fascinating byelection, with Reform and the Conservatives throwing absolutely everything at it.

    And my gut is that Reform will win it: most Labour supporters will stay home (I'd reckon their vote total will drop to something like 7-8,000), while Reform will grab a few Labour and Conservative supporters, and get their 2024 voters out.

    I don't agree. Runcorn itself is outer Liverpool which for the past fifteen years has been unusually loyal to Labour. I suspect enough of the vote will come out.
    And Helsby and Frodsham, which I know reasonably well, doesn't feel to me like natural Reform territory. Frodsham in particular is pretty comfortably off.
    Reform's chance at Runcorn - which I put at about 50% as things stand - is simply this: few will turn out, and there are no reasons to turn out for Labour - they already have a million MPs and have just removed grandma's WFA and lost you your 16 hours a week job at Next, and no reasons to turn out for the Tories because they were and are useless beyond belief and a total irrelevance.

    There is a reason to turn out for Reform - they are the only party that isn't tainted by government and won't make you install a heat pump that doesn't work and power your car by windmills.
    I have family in the Cheshire section of the seat. I don't know for sure but my best guess is that votes for LD/Lab/DNV/Lab will become votes for Con/DNV/DNV/DNV. I'd be surprised if any vote Ref. Though guesswork and anecdata and its from an atypical part of the seat, so, treat with caution.
    The Tories should sit this one out.

    It will pit massive pressure on Labour if Reform win .
    If Reform lose it pus the Cons on the front foot.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505
    I assume the Gaza ceasefire deal probably takes the wind out of Galloway and co's and the Greens' sails for a bit. Not a Lib Dem target so their vote probably gets squeezed.

    I agree with those who say this would be a Labour vs Reform contest.

    I don't necessarily agree with the idea a narrow Labour win could increase the chances of a Tory-Reform pact at the next election. If Ref easily leapfrog Con then it potentially muddies the waters, as some previous Lib Dem byelection performances have done in Lab-Con marginals.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    rcs1000 said:

    I met David Milliband at the zoo in New York.

    They put him in a zoo??
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    If LAB hold is a bigger price than RUK gain here I'll be looking to back it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    I’ve sung “Your Song” to a former Australian PM.
    My brother peed next to Kanye West at a urinal.
    I have danced with Ringo Starr.

    My wife has met everyone from Oprah to Madonna.

    Oh, fashionista Phoebe Philo told me she was going to the bar and asked if I wanted any chips at a David Byrne concert.

    Ffs, I hope you told her they are called "crisps"!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,132
    edited January 16
    Talking in general, I'm guessing most members of the public would expect an MP to resign if they get a criminal conviction. Whether they do or not is another matter.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223

    So, am I right that a suspended sentence would trigger a recall petition, but a community order wouldn't?

    I believe that to be correct. I'd also be surprised, having read the sentencing guidelines, if he gets more than a community order - unless there are aggravating factors that haven't been reported.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758

    I once met David Cameron in a state of undress. This will give @TSE the horn.

    On the other hand my three year old granddaughter goes to School with 2 of BoJos offspring and with Elon Musk's godson.

    She's better connected than I am.

    Showered with Olly Barkley (fly half, once the future of English rugby) owing to Gold membership of the Uni gym, where Bath players also trained.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Andy_JS said:

    Talking in general, I'm guessing most members of the public would expect an MP to resign if they get a criminal conviction. Whether they do or not is another matter.

    Stand by for all those saying Trump is a criminal and should go saying Amesbury should stay if he dets a conviction.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    Obviously, living in LA you meet famous people in the entertainment industry all the time. May favourite recent one was Ed Norton, whose daughter was in the same musical theatre production as my son. (Matt Berninger from the National used to be a parent at my kids' school, and Christina Agliera still is.)
    I had Gal Gadot and Halma Sayek as Co-parents. It was funny to watch my fellow fathers flock around Gal 😂

    When we lived in London, my son was at school with Damian Lewis's son. And he used to do pickup all the time.

    They'd always be 20 mothers surrounding him, hanging on his every word.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I've met quite a few tech billionaires, but very few politicians.

    Obviously, living in LA you meet famous people in the entertainment industry all the time. May favourite recent one was Ed Norton, whose daughter was in the same musical theatre production as my son. (Matt Berninger from the National used to be a parent at my kids' school, and Christina Agliera still is.)
    I had Gal Gadot and Halma Sayek as Co-parents. It was funny to watch my fellow fathers flock around Gal 😂

    When we lived in London, my son was at school with Damian Lewis's son. And he used to do pickup all the time.

    They'd always be 20 mothers surrounding him, hanging on his every word.
    Now I know you are making it up. The boys ginger, no-ones going for that...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    I don't understand the point in the header about a Labour win on a split Reform/Tory ticket being bad for them.

    I would say this by-election is low risk for Reform. If they win, they will bag it as an indicator of momentum; if they don't win they will they say have increased vote share, going in the right direction, and will win the next time. I doubt they care about one of their MPs being a thug
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 16

    ‘I’ve earned £575 in six months’: The ex-Tory MPs who can’t get a job
    The sudden shift into unemployment after an election defeat is brutal – and so is finding work when you were a Conservative parliamentarian

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/16/ex-tory-mp-unemployed-political-views/ (£££)

    Set up an employment agency and you can meet any number of forcibly-retired MPs.

    Behind the paywall. Is it Gullis? Perhaps being such an unpleasant roaster (particularly when one is a career teacher) whist being an MP in a RedWall seat wasn't such a good idea afterall.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,505

    I see the Lib Dems have come out in favour of a customs union with the EU on the eve of Donald Trump declaring a trade war on them.

    Bloody idiots.

    It is very difficult to determine who is the most stupid party at Westminster now.

    Most of the target vote will see this as positive, and an example of solidarity with our allies. I'm not sure there are many Lib Dem votes in promising to suck up to Trump by providing him with EU tariff arbitrage. Maybe a few Reform-curious NOTA voters in the sticks.

    There's also the inner city professional Labour vote, which is in the party's sights after they lost it almost completely between 2010 and 2017. That's where the frustration with Starmer's EU cowardice is strongest.
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