Why has @Shecorns88 been banned? As far as I can see we never found out they were a staffer for Labour.
Asked to support with evidence some potentially libellous statement and failing to do, I assume.
That’s a shame but understandable in the circumstances. I still hope they’ll be allowed to return if they desist from making libellous statements as we need a wide range of views here, even the very pro Starmer ones.
Has the left ever recovered from that malign genius Alistair Campbell? Never prepared to have an honest debate, always trying to deflect or reframe the issue.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
From 2004:
Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford's social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time.
There's been a lot said about Edge of the City - almost all of it by people who had not actually seen the controversial documentary on Bradford's social services.
More than a year in the making, Edge of the City follows social workers with difficult cases in one inner city.
The most controversial of these witnesses authorities and parents trying to stop groups of young men who are grooming girls as young as 11 for sex.
Although none of the officials in the film raise race as the issue in these predatory relationships, the filmmakers make it perfectly clear that the abusers are predominantly Asian, and all of the abused girls are white.
...
But, how the programme deals with the story of sexual abuse in Keighley and Bradford is more problematic.
Without a doubt, the programme makers, with their remarkable access to social workers, came across a tragic story which needed telling.
A Barnardos expert says "scores" of young men are involved; her local social services colleague says there is a massive hole in what the authorities can do. The filmmakers talk to one girl who has had 100 sexual partners.
But time and time again, the programme leaves questions unanswered.
Very early on in the film, the narrator says Bradford's ethnic mix "traditionally" leaves a city divided. Difference is, of course, noticeable - but does it inevitably create division? Other cities would consider this a glib conclusion.
When the narrator explains that some abused girls are as young as 11, why does the camera stop on a shot of Bradford's main mosque?
And when the narrator says that young Pakistani drugs gangs are beyond the control of "community elders", are we being told this entire community should be considered guilty of neglect?
Ann Cryer, the chairwoman of the Labour Party’s National Policy Forum, was widely vilified in 2003 when she first tried to bring a staggering circle of crime to light.
Is it a coincidence that this was going on at the same time as the war on terror? I've seen some people say that the descriptions of the crimes remind them of the way rape is used as a weapon in conflict situations.
To what extent is Trump licencing Musk to launch these attacks?
That's an interesting question for me.
The non-scary answer? He isn't!
Trump can't do much about Musk at all (again, not sure he wants to or agrees with him) until he gets into The White House.
I would imagine he's privately rather annoyed at Musk going for Farage. I don't think Trump would ever sacrifice his own interests for Farage, but I do think he's fond of him.
Why has @Shecorns88 been banned? As far as I can see we never found out they were a staffer for Labour.
The decision is for the moderator and not you to demand reasons
The owners of this site are facing serious issues with the online safety bill and I expect much stricter policing by them as the very existence of the site could be at risk
We must support @TSE and the moderators at all times, especially going forward
Hear hear, and should mod decisions really be questioned or debated on the forum. I moderated a forum and we wouldn’t allow it. It causes too much distraction and undermines the admin. Question by DM fine. But not in public.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
There's probably a reasonable preview in Tom Baldwin's biography of Starmer. Key pages here:
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Sometimes, we really are all guilty.
It doesn’t matter what the truth is when the world’s richest man can amplify his Tweets and post completely unsubstantiated lies day after day. There is literally nothing being done to hold him to account for what he’s said on his own platform. That is a big problem.
It would be just the same if he were attacking Kemi Badenoch, or even Nigel Farage.
It’s not just that he lies endlessly, it’s that because of Twitter he will brainwash people and convince them it’s true even when it’s patently not. Just look at the comments under any Starmer Tweet to see what’s happening. It’s a sewer.
Those passages do Starmer credit but it is remarkable how the landscape has changed.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
If we can talk about something else, admittedly rather depressing, a few days ago an embankment collapsed on the historic Bridgewater Canal.
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
Why has @Shecorns88 been banned? As far as I can see we never found out they were a staffer for Labour.
Posting libel without evidence to back it up (now we don't know what the actual post says because being sensible @TSE has deleted it)...
I would like everyone to know that the allegation about me, the sheep, the turnip and the eight ostriches is a total and utter fabrication. There is no way that I would ever partake in any such acts, especially on a Sunday, and feel that the allegation made in the post reflect more on the poster than on myself.
To make everyone clear, it was nine ostriches, and the crocodile was just an interested observer.
Liverpool can’t go dropping points at home against relegation haunted sides with array of difficult away games coming at them. Liverpool spent the first half looking leggy and yard off the pace - that’s where they dropped the points.
Manchester United were excellent today and nearly snatched it at the end
However, Liverpool are 6 points ahead and have a game in hand
Not only that, in Salah they have the best player in the league and will win it
I think you have put the finger on the actual button here. Salah has an incredible goal involvement of over 70% so far this season. But to what degree will the rest of the team step up if his form drops off or he’s injured for length of time? We can’t know. And that’s the problem when everything giving team cutting edge goes through one great player.
It’s not just Salah who won’t be at the club next season, Arnold, who has turned down millions having not signed a new contract, proving he made his mind up to leave ages ago, didn’t turn up today.
It’s not just this game Liverpool looked jaded and their press was poor, their performances have been slipping this direction throughout December, meaning they don’t look as strong defensively. The extra gruelling Champions League programme could be taking its toll - it was incredible the Everton away game cancelled and only one blank week was available in next few months. Tiredness equals not just dropped points but injuries too - have you noticed an outbreak of hamstring strains and tears occurring over the last week or so.
And the fixture list was so kind to Liverpool up until Christmas, but is far steeper test from here on in. How will they bounce back or react mentally if they take just 2 points from 12 and are back in the chasing pack? We can’t possibly know, especially as so many of these players haven’t won anything recently, unlike Man City.
comparing the fixtures, I think Man City will win the title in May, or if not, will come very very close to denying Liverpool.
How the hell was the fixture list kind to Liverpool up until Christmas?
The only realistic (sorry Forest!) challenger for the title is Arsenal and the first half fixture between Liverpool and Arsenal was played at the Emirates. The second half of the season fixture is due at Anfield.
So Liverpool have 6 points, a game in hand, and the second half fixture between them and their challenger is being played at home.
Six points and away game at Everton is nothing at this stage. Run of 2 points from 4 fixtures, and that buffer is gone.
It would be nice for us neutrals to get name other than Man City etched on for once!
But you saying you heard no football experts talking about Liverpools fixtures being easy start? They did. Over and over for months. One glance at it start of season and it was clear imbalance between first half and second half of season. Football being so much about confidence, is easy when racking up wins, when dropping points regularly it’s far harder.
So how do you equate that more straightforward first half fixture list, not balanced out to trickier now till end of season? Liverpool to Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, Manchester City, Brighton, Villa, Forest and Chelsea.
Arsenal haven’t really been in it or on it, all season, as Martinelli, Merino, Jesus, Trossard not assisting Saka in providing cutting edge and points. Havertz goes invisible in tough away fixtures too. Soon as Saka was declared out for months with tricky to recover from hamstring problem, Arsenals chance of major trophy was over for this season.
Chelsea, Man City, and Forest can all pounce if Liverpool start faltering and fall back to the pack. I won’t say Newcastle because like Liverpool and Arsenal they are another side over reliant on one player, and Izak has an awful appearance record season on season. the Toon likely mid table finish when he’s inevitably injured.
But that’s also a warning how Liverpools title dream can fail if Salah picks up a similar injury. Liverpool do have too many eggs in the Mo basket. Salah’s incredible goal involvement record this season was put to Slot who wisely reacted like it’s not good, such an issue for him and the team. So Slot knows, even if the fans are not awake yet to how precarious Liverpools chances are.
I still don’t understand why Musk is so engaged. You’d think running a large car company, a space launch company, a satellite comms company (all of which capable of being the biggest in their fields), a large social network baked into the fabric of western society, preparing to run a new Government Department in the U.S, and leading a chunk of Trump’s transition, would keep him busy.
Theory. Is Musk really, truly interested in the nitty-gritty running of DOGE? Why not just leave that sort of thing to Vivek. More fun trolling and I wonder if that includes trolling Trump? How far can he push him? My impression is that the Donald is quite fond of Nige. But, apparently, Farage isn't hard enough, according to Elon. Sooner or later these two are going to bust aren't they?
It will be curtains if Musk calls out Trump's new mate Lammy.
Musk trying to pick the leader of Reform UK and yet again interfere in our democracy is a disgrace. What business does he have chiming in.
I don't have an issue with anyone, from anywhere, chiming in on the domestic politics of another country.
The issue with Musk is every utterance is breathlessly reported, he doesn't know as much about politics as he thinks he does, and he's addicted to mouthing off on twitter. Throw potential money into the mix and it just gets messy.
Trying to mess with Farage's leadership is an odd move though - like him or loathe him Reform wouldn't be a significant thing without Farage, and even if the premise were true he has taken them as far as he can, other options don't come with Farage's strengths.
The explanation is that Musk is genuinely is a proper right wing nutter. Farage has pushed back on supporting Robinson and also carve a bit of an independent path on other topics. He is now an obstacle not part of the solution
It seems since Farage appeared on Kuenssberg this morning civil war is breaking out in Reform
It was noticeable that at their conference in Leicester Farage was heckled when he announced Robinson was banned from joining Reform
It is not a week is a long time in politics, a few hours are
Yes, Reform might soon be facing an awful dilemma: stick with Nigel and retain the benefits of his undoubted screen presence; or ditch him and get the Musk millions - a life-changing cash injection for any political party. Putting sentimentality aside, they'll have to decide which option is in Reform's long-term interests in becoming a serious political force. Tricky.
If Farage gets jettisoned and Musk puts his money behind a right-wing party with a harder edge, maybe the Tories will have to embrace Farage in order to fight it off.
It's moved the betting. Farage and Reform on the drift.
I think Farage will be fine but if he does get forced out it would be a wealthy South African, living in Texas, deciding who leads a party with a good chance of winning our next election.
Not an acceptable situation.
The only way out is to unite the Anglosphere into a giant federal republic so that we all get to vote on our direction. The Five Eyes should become One.
William.
You can take the Euro out of Eurofederalist and you still get @williamglenn .
It's really an idea whose time has come. We can invite Greenland and Iceland to join too, and perhaps Malta and Cyprus as well. It will be like getting the band back together.
Unfortunately the band is the Bay City Rollers. I'll organise the séance.
Worth noting that the interview linked said Starmer judged there was “not enough evidence” while the caption said Starmer said there was “no evidence” against Saville
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
Around 2013 I wrote a story about how Wikipedia was editing these cases into oblivion, including Charlene Downs (the murdered girl who allegedly got sold as kebab meat in Blackpool)
Incredibly, a bunch of lefty wiki editors decided her story was “unimportant” and got it deleted. Because of my article it was reinstated. There is a new article now
So I know personally how the left has been ferociously suppressing this story for DECADES
11 and a bit years is stretching the definition of “DECADES”…
Comments
I’m sure whoever it is they will be back though.
NEW THREAD
It's still leaking, and still collapsing. The banks for several hundred yards either side of the breach have been undermined, leading to the steel linings falling into the main channel, and the stop boards are breaking because they're all rotten. Meanwhile, the area damaged by flooding is extensive.
(Start at 12 mins) https://youtu.be/8env2H36Hto?si=Nj13N9KH-hxBDBKP
https://youtu.be/meEAQO5TKwk?si=l2DJKHZ5YzBh-KCD
I do not see how this gets repaired, given the owners. We could well have lost the first major canal of the Industrial Age.
Firstly, in Scotland, we have the rape shield provisions found in the Criminal Procedure (S) Act 1995. These make it impermissible to ask any complainer about any prior sexual or criminal conduct unless an application has been made to the court explaining in advance why that evidence might be relevant (an obvious example being a previous admitted false allegation). Secondly, in Scotland, we have gone a long way (some might say too far) in excluding what we call collateral material, such as that the complainer had consented on other occasions. Taken together, the scope of cross examination has been very severely restricted and it tends to be relatively brief.
Secondly, we have simply stopped being apologetic about our victims. Many, possibly even most, have found themselves in situations where they have been sexually abused because they have drug problems, drink problems or psychological issues relating to their mental health. We have gone on the front foot about this. They have been picked because they have these vulnerabilities. It is not a reason to doubt the evidence of the victim, it is a reason to look carefully at the conduct of the accused.
Thirdly, and possibly most controversially in Scotland, the old protections of corroboration have been substantially diminished. What is meant by a de recenti statement (that is immediately after the event) has been extended to months if there are good reasons why it had not been made earlier. Similarly, the rule on distress viewed by an independent witness has been extended in time.
The result of these changes is that it is a very rare allegation of rape that does not get to a jury. Whether they are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt is a different matter but juries too, in my experience, are far more realistic than they used to be about what has really been going on. The #MeToo movement has had a definite and positive effect here. Jurors are much more willing to see abuses of power and addictions as vitiating any question of consent.
Personally, I have some reservations about some of the excluded evidence. I have some worries that a life changing conviction can and does come to pass on the back of what is, in reality, a single source of evidence. I have concerns about the sheer number of cases that are being prosecuted and the delays that causes. But what an improvement.
To make everyone clear, it was nine ostriches, and the crocodile was just an interested observer.
It would be nice for us neutrals to get name other than Man City etched on for once!
But you saying you heard no football experts talking about Liverpools fixtures being easy start? They did. Over and over for months. One glance at it start of season and it was clear imbalance between first half and second half of season. Football being so much about confidence, is easy when racking up wins, when dropping points regularly it’s far harder.
So how do you equate that more straightforward first half fixture list, not balanced out to trickier now till end of season? Liverpool to Everton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, Manchester City, Brighton, Villa, Forest and Chelsea.
Arsenal haven’t really been in it or on it, all season, as Martinelli, Merino, Jesus, Trossard not assisting Saka in providing cutting edge and points. Havertz goes invisible in tough away fixtures too. Soon as Saka was declared out for months with tricky to recover from hamstring problem, Arsenals chance of major trophy was over for this season.
Chelsea, Man City, and Forest can all pounce if Liverpool start faltering and fall back to the pack. I won’t say Newcastle because like Liverpool and Arsenal they are another side over reliant on one player, and Izak has an awful appearance record season on season. the Toon likely mid table finish when he’s inevitably injured.
But that’s also a warning how Liverpools title dream can fail if Salah picks up a similar injury. Liverpool do have too many eggs in the Mo basket. Salah’s incredible goal involvement record this season was put to Slot who wisely reacted like it’s not good, such an issue for him and the team. So Slot knows, even if the fans are not awake yet to how precarious Liverpools chances are.
A very important distinction
😂