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Not Another One?! – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    Because he has no evidence of owning a plan, or even an idea - see social care now shunted off to 2028 - and indeed the Times has just revealed he came into office and was horrified to discover “there was no plan”

    In the absence of this we have had six months of dithering and grift and then a catastrophic budget. What makes you think it’s going to change?
    I'd have been far less concerned if he had said 2027, as it is a big problem to resolve and has been ignored for years. But given we can near definitely expect delays a plan for 2028 would surely be late 2028 at best, if not 2029, and I just don't buy any government in this era would make a major decision like that within 6-12 months of an election.

    So the fear it is just being punted into the long grass is natural, even if Streeting is correct and that is not the case.
    It is abject. They literally have no idea what to do about anything. I mean, I voted for this shit (more fool me). But I thoutht at the very least "they'll be tediously competent in a twiddling kind of way, and they'll have a good plan for the NHS, if nothing else, after all they've been in Opposition 14 years"

    Yet not. Gawd 'elp us
    It's not only abject, it's baffling. They seem entirely surprised that the responsibility for coming up with any sort of plan has fallen into their lap. It's as if they think the civil service actually has loads of great Labour-ish plans that the Tories have been evilly frustrating and all they have to do is step in and not be the Tories and the happy wheels of centrist government will turn again once more.
    It gets worse. I would vote Labour again tomorrow (LDs no chance in my seat) as the other option for government doesn't come close to being as decent as the Labour or Lab/LD one. This is not cheering. Labour have much to prove, but the Tories have massively more.
    In my view the current lot are just as rubbish as the Sunak government at governing - but have also come with added "pay £800m a year to give away the Chagos Islands" and added "trash private education" and added "trash state education".

    The 22-24 Tories were a low bar but Labour are limboing effortlessly under them.
    I've forgotten, did you actually vote Labour last time?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Can’t see how this harms Farage given Musk still seems to think Robinson is a political prisoner.

    LOL. Part of the Farage shtick is hanging out with the big boyz. It's what, at least in part, giving him the big mo. Plus the prospect of a few dollars more.

    It's obvs not terminal. But a big slap nonetheless. Kemi will be having a laugh.
    I wonder if Musk will get behind a Tory. Kemi, or Jenrick

    However as we have seen, having Musk's support is like being defended by a someone with the loosest of loose cannons, as likely to blow your head off as shoot the enemy

    What they all want, however, is his money. Trump included
    If Farage is junked, or junks himself, that's great news for the Tories.

    No-one else has anything like his cut through, and neithee Lee Anderson or Richard Tice could do anything more than the Paul Nuttall 2.0
    Agree. I also don't think this is bad news for Farage or Reform. It is unlikely to lose them many of the far right votes (unless they feel Nige has gone soft and they become non voters) and he could gain from the more sane right by being disassociated with someone who supports Tommy Robinson, etc.

    Although I disagree with Farage on practically everything, he is an excellent campaigner and is very careful to steer away from anything extreme.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    So the patriotic thing to do is vote Farage to stick it to the foreign billionaire.
    Bit of 7d chess, you think?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Farage, to be fair to him, seems to have been quite right to remove Ben Habib.

    https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1875837469263790143?s=61
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    vino said:

    Hi Cyclefree - a very interesting header and like others I look forward to reading your book - it was Aberfan which led to my working career.


    The Aberfan disaster of October 1966 led to the 1969
    Mines & Quarries (Tips) Act which made further provision
    in relation to tips associated with mines and quarries
    mainly to prevent disused tips constituting a danger to
    members of the public .This was followed by the Mines and Quarries (Tips) Regulations, 1971, setting out the rules to be followed.
    Until the introduction of the Tips Act 1969, there were no
    laws and regulations governing mine and quarry tips and
    spoil tips.

    Nottinghamshire Land Reclamation Team, Planning &
    Economic Department was established in 1970/71 - with 2/3 engineers and associated surveyors, drawing back-up staff. The
    engineers were mainly qualified certificated ex mining
    surveyors. The Authority had to inspect the closed spoil heaps and were allowed using government grants to restore them usually at first to a green afteruse.

    The number of tips inspected in Nottinghamshire today is currently around 80; approximately 50% are within the Authority’s own estate. The remaining tips are owned by private or other public sector landowners. The majority were restored by the Land Reclamation Team.
    As well as the Spoil Heaps came Landfill Sites,disused former railway lines,2 MOD sites and then the former colliery sites.
    I enjoyed my work.

    With regard to Aberfan the attached is good.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgIN8-oI6bE

    Don't be put off by the title.

    Thank you.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385

    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    Wes Streeting is a far better teller of the government's story than Starmer or Reeves.

    He's a better politician than both. Neither Starmer, who is a better manager nor Reeves who is a highly respected economist, ask Mark Carney, are natural politicians.

    Darren Jones and Jonathan Reynolds are as good as Streeting in terms of communicating under pressure but possibly overall higher intellect.

    Also a politician that is stuck at health. Cooper's going to hang on, Streeting replacing Reeves would be ludicrous, so I presume he's out to get Lammy?

    I think Streeting is really very good, but I don't warm to the man.
    Reeves is an interesting one. I’ve got my eye on the possibility of a 2025 exit for her.

    As always, “if” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here but it’s not impossible to visualise a scenario where the economy continues to flatline, inflation is stubborn, Trumps economic policies bite hard and the NI rise causes an uptick in unemployment. I think Reeves has created a hostage to fortune for saying she wouldn’t come back for more tax rises. Another unpopular budget could really spook Labour and might prompt a resignation or dismissal in an effort to relaunch the governments economic policy.

    That being said, it is not great for a PM to lose their chancellor. But Starmer has a ruthless streak. I don’t put it past him to jettison cabinet members to try and save his premiership.
    In principle yes. Starmer world get rid of Reeves if he thought that would serve him. But as of today I don't see how it does serve him. Reeves is doing what Starmer wants her to do.
    Why does he want her to fk up the economy ?
    Starmer wants Reeves to raise taxes. Beyond the cost of those taxes it isn't obvious Reeves is fucking up the economy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 374

    The death of Jimmy Carter just days before Trump's inauguration does seem extraordinarily timed. Could imagine Don DeLillo using it in a novel.

    It's as if part of America just died. Something that was authentic, good-natured, honest and well-disposed, displaced by the tawdry, contrived, dishonest and malign.

    Don't get me wrong. Carter was a bit of a duffer and the presidency overwhelmed him. Reagan deserved to win. That was an inflection point in itself.

    But the gulf between the well-meaning Carter and 45/47, well, that's summat else.

    I always think John Major was UKs Carter.

    Politically weak and uninspiring but at heart a decent man.

    We'll forgive him Edwina. She could charm anyone, believe me a really charming lady.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223

    If Elon Musk isn't just raising these issues to attack Labour, then why in the entire period of Tory Government did he never raise anything like this before.

    The grooming gangs story didn't come out last week.

    Anyone saying otherwise is either radicalised, blind or just don't care as secretly they enjoy Labour being attacked (as somebody said here literally a few days ago).

    The reality is, attacking Labour just makes people turn off. Propose some alternative plans otherwise people will simply say "you had fourteen years".

    Reform to their credit have the most reasonable case to make but I just disagree with every single solution they propose. Kemi Badenoch is just jumping on bandwagons and it really shows.

    If I were to bet something, her ratings will be extremely poor by this time next year.

    Musk didn't become a political figure in the way he is now until after the July GE...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,554
    First Starmer, now Farage.
    I can't wait for Musk to go after Ed Davey.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    FPT:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Oh what a fucking surprise Laura K has Nigel '5 MPs' Farage on yet again.

    No doubt the BBC will also have him lined up for QT for about a dozen appearances in the next six months.

    Well, he is the most probable next Prime Minister, after Starmer, according to the bookies

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister-after-keir-starmer

    So, yeah, suck it up. He will get attention
    Beeb journos and editors will be the first to burst into tears when Farage populist nationalist government ends the licence fee on day one and make the BBC into a less well funded version of PBS.

    Meh. The BBC is doomed anyway. We might as well face it, even tho it saddens me as a Brit
    Probably true but symptomatic of the decline of the country. We have allowed our great institutions to shrivel or be sold off in the name of competition and the 'free market'.
    A lot of people dont think the bbc is a great institution however, its the channel you never bother with. Sort of like the shipping forecast, only of interest to a tiny few
    That's patently bollocks.

    "BBC One dominated the festive ratings charts in a bumper day for Christmas Day viewing, with programmes shown on the channel occupying all spots in the top 10 for the first time."

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/dec/26/gavin-and-stacey-finale-tops-christmas-television-ratings
    Call The Midwife ranked fourth in terms of viewership, with 4.42 million tuning in to the latest Christmas special. EastEnders came a close fifth place, with nearly 4.4 million viewers watching the soap’s festive special. The EastEnders Christmas special drew in 800,000 more viewers compared with 2023, based on each year’s overnight figures for 25 December.

    Doctor Who: Joy to the World drew in 4.11 million viewers, down slightly compared with last year’s special, which attracted 4.4 million overnight viewers. The Strictly Come Dancing festive show racked up just over 4 million views, while 3.23 million people tuned in to the latest Julia Donaldson adaptation, Tiddler, which was narrated by Hannah Waddingham.


    Those numbers are a small fraction of what the most popular shows would have got 50, 20 or even 10 years ago.
    Sheer whataboutery.

    4m ≠ (to quote Pagan2) "a tiny few".

    Of course it's a small proportion of the numbers from 50, 20 or 10 years ago, because... the internet has happened. The BBC still had more viewers than any other channel - broadcast or streaming.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    rcs1000 said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    I suppose the main issue is that he has done little to justify his majority. That's a result of a split opposition. He has no vision, no plan and cant take people with him as a result. He's the Chauncey Gardener of UK politics,
    He got the most votes in a majority of seats. That how he has justified his majority. That's all you need to do. That's all he has to do next time.
    Except he wont and in all likelihood wont be the party leader.
    Given how hard it is to remove a Labour leader, and how rarely first term PMs are defenestrated by their own party, I would have thought that SKS is highly likely to lead his party into the next election.
    Agreed. Only serious ill health could change that in my view.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,986
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.

    Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.

    There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
    Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth

    He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
    Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
    I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
    I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
    Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 374
    kinabalu said:

    I reckon Musk just has a Magic 8-Ball and uses that to decide who he's got it in for on X on any given day.

    Perhaps Farage isn't racist enough for him?
    The only winner is Starmer.

    Musk has had Sunak and Farage trying to get up his backside.

    Starmer has merely gotten on with his job having had the backbone not to invite him to Labours Global Growth summit.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited January 5

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,554
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    I have also had 40 dry days in January and February.
    Since 1974.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,343

    Has Musk turned on Farage now? Very odd

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875904634419859928

    The Reform Party needs a new leader. Farage doesn’t have what it takes.
    As I suggested earlier, he's going to promote "Tommy Robinson" as the last hope for the UK. And in doing so make himself an irrelevant laughing stock
    Tommy will end up getting the $100m and will piss it away on expensive sunbeds, alcohol, and holidays in the Med.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762
    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,774
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    Wes Streeting is a far better teller of the government's story than Starmer or Reeves.

    He's a better politician than both. Neither Starmer, who is a better manager nor Reeves who is a highly respected economist, ask Mark Carney, are natural politicians.

    Darren Jones and Jonathan Reynolds are as good as Streeting in terms of communicating under pressure but possibly overall higher intellect.

    Also a politician that is stuck at health. Cooper's going to hang on, Streeting replacing Reeves would be ludicrous, so I presume he's out to get Lammy?

    I think Streeting is really very good, but I don't warm to the man.
    Reeves is an interesting one. I’ve got my eye on the possibility of a 2025 exit for her.

    As always, “if” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here but it’s not impossible to visualise a scenario where the economy continues to flatline, inflation is stubborn, Trumps economic policies bite hard and the NI rise causes an uptick in unemployment. I think Reeves has created a hostage to fortune for saying she wouldn’t come back for more tax rises. Another unpopular budget could really spook Labour and might prompt a resignation or dismissal in an effort to relaunch the governments economic policy.

    That being said, it is not great for a PM to lose their chancellor. But Starmer has a ruthless streak. I don’t put it past him to jettison cabinet members to try and save his premiership.
    In principle yes. Starmer world get rid of Reeves if he thought that would serve him. But as of today I don't see how it does serve him. Reeves is doing what Starmer wants her to do.
    Why does he want her to fk up the economy ?
    Starmer wants Reeves to raise taxes. Beyond the cost of those taxes it isn't obvious Reeves is fucking up the economy.
    Starmer had no choice but to raise taxes as the NI cuts that Rishi and Hunt implemented in 2023/4 were based on complete lies.

    The issue for Reeves is that there was a sane way of reversing those cuts that she didn't adopt so she's massively increased Employer NI which is going to be awkward for a lot of minimum wage operators..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,993
    Taz said:

    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61

    No sane party leader should want Musk's support, he's extremely erratic and a real liability.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    Taz said:

    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61

    I could see Elon backing Kemi for a couple of reasons:

    (1) He's very sensitive to the accusation of racism
    (2) She's gone big on the anti-woke thing

    Plus, of course, he wants politicians of all flavours fawning for his favours.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Although in this case I'm quietly chuckling rather than throbbing with indignation I'd actually prefer that Musk be ignored on anything to do with our domestic politics. It has fuck all to do with him. The way his inane bigoted opinions are constantly all over the media is pretty sick imo.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
    I was kidding: I've drunk on only one of the last eight days. I'm a lot more moderate in my imbibing these days.

    As far as getting healthier goes, can I recommend cycling.

    A couple of hours on a bike burns a lot of calories, and it's very good for your heart health, which is probably the single most important predictor of longevity. Plus it's fun. Albeit, it's probably more fun in places that are sunny and warm.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61

    I could see Elon backing Kemi for a couple of reasons:

    (1) He's very sensitive to the accusation of racism
    (2) She's gone big on the anti-woke thing

    Plus, of course, he wants politicians of all flavours fawning for his favours.
    He also likes backing winners. And that is not Reform.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Farage replies to Musk.

    It’s like a soap opera. More entertaining than some of them

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1875918844562473373?s=61
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Don't go that far
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    edited January 5

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Ah, ok thanks. Shame but inevitable, I guess.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Taz said:

    Farage replies to Musk.

    It’s like a soap opera. More entertaining than some of them

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1875918844562473373?s=61

    A mistake for Farage to refer to Tommy Robinson in his reply. He should have just attacked Musk for interfering in British politics.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    That’s what I thought. I read a handful of articles a week and have never been restricted or had to pay.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,271
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    Because he has no evidence of owning a plan, or even an idea - see social care now shunted off to 2028 - and indeed the Times has just revealed he came into office and was horrified to discover “there was no plan”

    In the absence of this we have had six months of dithering and grift and then a catastrophic budget. What makes you think it’s going to change?
    I'd have been far less concerned if he had said 2027, as it is a big problem to resolve and has been ignored for years. But given we can near definitely expect delays a plan for 2028 would surely be late 2028 at best, if not 2029, and I just don't buy any government in this era would make a major decision like that within 6-12 months of an election.

    So the fear it is just being punted into the long grass is natural, even if Streeting is correct and that is not the case.
    It is abject. They literally have no idea what to do about anything. I mean, I voted for this shit (more fool me). But I thoutht at the very least "they'll be tediously competent in a twiddling kind of way, and they'll have a good plan for the NHS, if nothing else, after all they've been in Opposition 14 years"

    Yet not. Gawd 'elp us
    It's not only abject, it's baffling. They seem entirely surprised that the responsibility for coming up with any sort of plan has fallen into their lap. It's as if they think the civil service actually has loads of great Labour-ish plans that the Tories have been evilly frustrating and all they have to do is step in and not be the Tories and the happy wheels of centrist government will turn again once more.
    It gets worse. I would vote Labour again tomorrow (LDs no chance in my seat) as the other option for government doesn't come close to being as decent as the Labour or Lab/LD one. This is not cheering. Labour have much to prove, but the Tories have massively more.
    In my view the current lot are just as rubbish as the Sunak government at governing - but have also come with added "pay £800m a year to give away the Chagos Islands" and added "trash private education" and added "trash state education".

    The 22-24 Tories were a low bar but Labour are limboing effortlessly under them.
    I've forgotten, did you actually vote Labour last time?
    No, SDP. Couldn't vote Tory after 1) the cancellation of HS2 and 2) National Service proposals. But nor could I vote Labour, particularly because of their approach to education (primarily their approach to academies.)

    I wouldn't say I'd never vote Labour - there are many decent Labour MPs and party members - but the current incarnation are not a party I could support. If I'd been ranking by preference at the election they'd have been below the Tories.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,343
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61

    I could see Elon backing Kemi for a couple of reasons:

    (1) He's very sensitive to the accusation of racism
    (2) She's gone big on the anti-woke thing

    Plus, of course, he wants politicians of all flavours fawning for his favours.
    He'll have to go off Tommy Robinson, because no British politician with a brain will want to associate with him as a precondition of Musk's support. Swing voters, soft Tories etc. not happy with Starmer won't go within a mile of any politician or party who is seen as supporting Tommy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    I suppose the main issue is that he has done little to justify his majority. That's a result of a split opposition. He has no vision, no plan and cant take people with him as a result. He's the Chauncey Gardener of UK politics,
    He got the most votes in a majority of seats. That how he has justified his majority. That's all you need to do. That's all he has to do next time.
    Except he wont and in all likelihood wont be the party leader.
    Given how hard it is to remove a Labour leader, and how rarely first term PMs are defenestrated by their own party, I would have thought that SKS is highly likely to lead his party into the next election.
    Agreed. Only serious ill health could change that in my view.
    Starmer will retire like Harold Wilson, imo. So yes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Nigel is arguably the last genuine liberal left standing. He's our best hope for moderate politics to survive.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,768
    Taz said:

    Farage, to be fair to him, seems to have been quite right to remove Ben Habib.

    https://x.com/benhabib6/status/1875837469263790143?s=61

    This has strong "I didn't know this but am now attempting to pivot" vibes.

    Musk: I know he’s in prison for contempt of court ffs, but there is NO justification for such a long prison sentence or for solitary confinement!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    Taz said:

    Is Musk now pivoting towards the Tories ?

    This is so amusing. Attention seeker gets attention.

    Just look at PB. Full of stuff about him.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875928538853101959?s=61

    Does Kemi really want to vanish down the Free Tommy Robinson plughole?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,605
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    a

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Trying to buy a PC monitor, budget about £300. This is near impossible with model numbers like 27GP850P-B-M27Q-XG27ACS. Is that the one with the USB-C port? HDMI 2.1? 0.5ms?

    Even worse than wireless printers IMO. Even reddit can't help.

    What do you want?

    screen resolution FHD, QHD or 4k
    screen size 24 or 27"
    purpose - gaming, serious gaming, office work or both...

    and what are you planning to connect it to as a Mac requires something different to Windows...
    USB-C for MacBook Air, QHD, 27", mainly office work, photo editing and bit of gaming. Gigabyte M27Q is the closest I've got to so far.
    Have you considered these?

    https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-27-usb-c-monitor-s2722dc/apd/210-bbrr/monitors-monitor-accessories

    https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/dell-27-4k-uhd-usb-c-monitor-s2722qc/apd/210-bbrq/monitors-monitor-accessories
    I would refer @Eabhal to https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/monitors/faq-dell-monitor-and-apple/647f9fc4f4ccf8a8de4ad5fd from Dell - you can tell support is an issue when Dell have an FAQ about what monitors work on a mac and which are problematic...
    I bought the S2722QC a few weeks ago and have used it with both Mac and Windows and it looks great to me.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
    I was kidding: I've drunk on only one of the last eight days. I'm a lot more moderate in my imbibing these days.

    As far as getting healthier goes, can I recommend cycling.

    A couple of hours on a bike burns a lot of calories, and it's very good for your heart health, which is probably the single most important predictor of longevity. Plus it's fun. Albeit, it's probably more fun in places that are sunny and warm.
    I’m back at work tomorrow. I love the cycle to and from work. Five miles each way. However Given the weather this week I will be driving every day. In the summer I cycle every day.

    Cycling is such great excercise and fun. I’m so glad I rediscovered it a decade ago.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,661

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Not sure that’s correct - I read many many articles a day and have for many years and it never goes behind a paywall. I think they are determined that it’s never paywalled.

    Instead you get requests popping up on screen saying you have read x number of articles so please subscribe and they also do pop ups when a news story arises about, say Trump, and they write “this is why we need your support” etc.

    But not paywalled.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
    Just look at the responses to Elon's tweet. I didn't realize Rupert Lowe was a thing but it seems that he absolutely is.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.

    Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.

    There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
    Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth

    He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
    Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
    I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
    I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
    Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
    There can be more than one issue. And the one I'm highlighting is not unimportant. A bandwagon heading for a bad place is better not jumped upon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    I'm not sure about the schism and even less sure about a conduit to Musk. The more obvious answer is something happened when they met recently. Was Musk more influenced by fellow-billionaire Candy? Was Musk envious of Farage's relationship with Trump?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
    Just look at the responses to Elon's tweet. I didn't realize Rupert Lowe was a thing but it seems that he absolutely is.
    He's been the most effective new Reform MP at using his position in parliament to ask difficult questions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.

    Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.

    There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
    Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth

    He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
    Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
    I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
    I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
    Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
    It's a measure of @kinabalu's morality that his concern here is the manipulation of the scandal by "the far right" not the thousands and thousands and thousands of victims. Says it all
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    On topic. As ever, excellent, @Cyclefree

    We have an administrative class that believes that it is not responsible for its actions. The Process State where morality and personal discretion is replaced by a rules - written and unwritten.

    The implication of the The Rules is that those who cleave to them are absolved. They have their Indulgence.

    Two things come to mind

    1) During WWII, a senior civil servant raised a question about the response to the V1 & V2 attacks. Due to the wholesale takeover of German spies in the UK and the breaks into various German codes, the UK government could control information the Germans gained on where the weapons had actually landed. So they planned to tell them they were landing *beyond* London. So the Germans would correct their aim and drop short.

    The civil servant in question raised a question - which I believe got as far as a discussion including Churchill. Did the government have the moral right to change who would die in the attacks? People would still be hit, in the populous South-East. Less, but people would still die. And the government, in effect would be directing attacks on to them

    The matter was debated and the deception went ahead.

    2) When the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie was created, the British Government responded by guaranteeing his personal security. This rose in cost to the most expensive personal security in the country - more than the PM, at the time of PIRA attacks.

    The matter was debated in cabinet. Questions of the morality of what Rushdie did, effects on foreign policy, the moral and legal standing of the governments duty to protect its citizens.... In the end, the collective decision was that the protection would continue at the highest level.

    Why do they come to mind?

    I've heard people lambast the civil servant in (1) - "It was war. Stupid question" etc. I differ on this. He was not correct, I think, in opposing the disinformation. But the moral question he raised is a worthy one. That he was listened to is, is to the credit of the listeners. He took a moral stand.

    On (2) I've heard people say that discussing it was disgraceful - that it should have ben handled by some process. Again, I disagree. The government of the country discussed the moral and practical implications of a policy. And made a decision that was unambiguously their responsibility.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Not sure that’s correct - I read many many articles a day and have for many years and it never goes behind a paywall. I think they are determined that it’s never paywalled.

    Instead you get requests popping up on screen saying you have read x number of articles so please subscribe and they also do pop ups when a news story arises about, say Trump, and they write “this is why we need your support” etc.

    But not paywalled.
    After a while the access for the rest of the month is paywalled until the next month
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Not sure that’s correct - I read many many articles a day and have for many years and it never goes behind a paywall. I think they are determined that it’s never paywalled.

    Instead you get requests popping up on screen saying you have read x number of articles so please subscribe and they also do pop ups when a news story arises about, say Trump, and they write “this is why we need your support” etc.

    But not paywalled.
    Paywalled on iPad, weirdly
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    Cyclefree said:

    Looking forward to your book Cyclefree.

    I need to get a publisher first. 😀
    Ask Leon (or ask Leon about AI) about punching up the language.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
    Well M**k seems to be promoting a cove called Rupert Lowe.

    He looks incredibly dodgy based on his photo.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Nigel is arguably the last genuine liberal left standing. He's our best hope for moderate politics to survive.
    Sure, sure.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    A bit like my attempt to go vegan. At least half my Sunday roast was vegan.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762

    Taz said:

    Farage replies to Musk.

    It’s like a soap opera. More entertaining than some of them

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1875918844562473373?s=61

    A mistake for Farage to refer to Tommy Robinson in his reply. He should have just attacked Musk for interfering in British politics.
    Yes. That actually makes it sound as if Reform is split over whether to give Tommy Robinson a high-profile role. Poorly expressed by Nigel. He's understandably a bit panicked.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,768
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
    I was kidding: I've drunk on only one of the last eight days. I'm a lot more moderate in my imbibing these days.

    As far as getting healthier goes, can I recommend cycling.

    A couple of hours on a bike burns a lot of calories, and it's very good for your heart health, which is probably the single most important predictor of longevity. Plus it's fun. Albeit, it's probably more fun in places that are sunny and warm.
    I’m back at work tomorrow. I love the cycle to and from work. Five miles each way. However Given the weather this week I will be driving every day. In the summer I cycle every day.

    Cycling is such great excercise and fun. I’m so glad I rediscovered it a decade ago.
    To anyone considering getting into cycling: at 48 years old I got my first panniers and saddlebags and it completely transformed my enjoyment of cycling.
    Best Christmas present I'd received in years.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,661

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Not sure that’s correct - I read many many articles a day and have for many years and it never goes behind a paywall. I think they are determined that it’s never paywalled.

    Instead you get requests popping up on screen saying you have read x number of articles so please subscribe and they also do pop ups when a news story arises about, say Trump, and they write “this is why we need your support” etc.

    But not paywalled.
    After a while the access for the rest of the month is paywalled until the next month
    That’s their news app not the website.

    https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2023/mar/22/an-update-on-reader-support-via-the-app
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    kle4 said:

    Musk trying to pick the leader of Reform UK and yet again interfere in our democracy is a disgrace. What business does he have chiming in.

    I don't have an issue with anyone, from anywhere, chiming in on the domestic politics of another country.

    The issue with Musk is every utterance is breathlessly reported, he doesn't know as much about politics as he thinks he does, and he's addicted to mouthing off on twitter. Throw potential money into the mix and it just gets messy.

    Trying to mess with Farage's leadership is an odd move though - like him or loathe him Reform wouldn't be a significant thing without Farage, and even if the premise were true he has taken them as far as he can, other options don't come with Farage's strengths.
    The explanation is that Musk is genuinely is a proper right wing nutter. Farage has pushed back on supporting Robinson and also carve a bit of an independent path on other topics. He is now an obstacle not part of the solution
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    a
    rcs1000 said:

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Nigel is arguably the last genuine liberal left standing. He's our best hope for moderate politics to survive.
    Sure, sure.
    Russian Liberal Democrat, perhaps?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Is Musk perhaps suffering some sort of mental illness?

    Serious question. His outbursts seem to be becoming ever more eccentric.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Cyclefree said:

    Looking forward to your book Cyclefree.

    I need to get a publisher first. 😀
    Ask Leon (or ask Leon about AI) about punching up the language.
    Reduce it, would be my advice

    @Cyclefree can write a fine sentence, and makes great arguments, but she has a terrible tendency to prolixity
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    Because he has no evidence of owning a plan, or even an idea - see social care now shunted off to 2028 - and indeed the Times has just revealed he came into office and was horrified to discover “there was no plan”

    In the absence of this we have had six months of dithering and grift and then a catastrophic budget. What makes you think it’s going to change?
    I'd have been far less concerned if he had said 2027, as it is a big problem to resolve and has been ignored for years. But given we can near definitely expect delays a plan for 2028 would surely be late 2028 at best, if not 2029, and I just don't buy any government in this era would make a major decision like that within 6-12 months of an election.

    So the fear it is just being punted into the long grass is natural, even if Streeting is correct and that is not the case.
    It is abject. They literally have no idea what to do about anything. I mean, I voted for this shit (more fool me). But I thoutht at the very least "they'll be tediously competent in a twiddling kind of way, and they'll have a good plan for the NHS, if nothing else, after all they've been in Opposition 14 years"

    Yet not. Gawd 'elp us
    It's not only abject, it's baffling. They seem entirely surprised that the responsibility for coming up with any sort of plan has fallen into their lap. It's as if they think the civil service actually has loads of great Labour-ish plans that the Tories have been evilly frustrating and all they have to do is step in and not be the Tories and the happy wheels of centrist government will turn again once more.
    It gets worse. I would vote Labour again tomorrow (LDs no chance in my seat) as the other option for government doesn't come close to being as decent as the Labour or Lab/LD one. This is not cheering. Labour have much to prove, but the Tories have massively more.
    In my view the current lot are just as rubbish as the Sunak government at governing - but have also come with added "pay £800m a year to give away the Chagos Islands" and added "trash private education" and added "trash state education".

    The 22-24 Tories were a low bar but Labour are limboing effortlessly under them.
    I've forgotten, did you actually vote Labour last time?
    No, SDP. Couldn't vote Tory after 1) the cancellation of HS2 and 2) National Service proposals. But nor could I vote Labour, particularly because of their approach to education (primarily their approach to academies.)

    I wouldn't say I'd never vote Labour - there are many decent Labour MPs and party members - but the current incarnation are not a party I could support. If I'd been ranking by preference at the election they'd have been below the Tories.
    Thanks. No, thought not. Crazy old world if you had.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
    I was kidding: I've drunk on only one of the last eight days. I'm a lot more moderate in my imbibing these days.

    As far as getting healthier goes, can I recommend cycling.

    A couple of hours on a bike burns a lot of calories, and it's very good for your heart health, which is probably the single most important predictor of longevity. Plus it's fun. Albeit, it's probably more fun in places that are sunny and warm.
    I’m back at work tomorrow. I love the cycle to and from work. Five miles each way. However Given the weather this week I will be driving every day. In the summer I cycle every day.

    Cycling is such great excercise and fun. I’m so glad I rediscovered it a decade ago.
    To anyone considering getting into cycling: at 48 years old I got my first panniers and saddlebags and it completely transformed my enjoyment of cycling. Much better than the other options of a rucksack or not taking any stuff with you.
    Excellent news. I am looking at the Canal du Midi (obviously the dry bit next to the canal) for this year's cycle trip. Already looking forward to it, but a lot of planning to do.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Can’t see how this harms Farage given Musk still seems to think Robinson is a political prisoner.

    LOL. Part of the Farage shtick is hanging out with the big boyz. It's what, at least in part, giving him the big mo. Plus the prospect of a few dollars more.

    It's obvs not terminal. But a big slap nonetheless. Kemi will be having a laugh.
    I wonder if Musk will get behind a Tory. Kemi, or Jenrick

    However as we have seen, having Musk's support is like being defended by a someone with the loosest of loose cannons, as likely to blow your head off as shoot the enemy

    What they all want, however, is his money. Trump included
    If Farage is junked, or junks himself, that's great news for the Tories.

    No-one else has anything like his cut through, and neithee Lee Anderson or Richard Tice could do anything more than the Paul Nuttall 2.0
    Farage wont be junked. The worst that can happen is he gets no cash from Musk

    Farage made it clear on LK today he is looking at really developing Reform into a proper political party putting in place a structure to support it.

    I suspect he thinks his,party can replace the Tories.
    I think it's a little more complex than that: I think there is a large -and still relatively empty- space for a nationalist, rather than an internationalist party. And it draws support from the Conservatives and Labour. Reform can easily, I suspect, get to 35%.

    After that, it becomes a little more difficult, not least because of the need to pull together two very different forms of nationalism. (Specifically the same issue with Brexit, between those who wanted us to leave the EU because they wanted more protectionism, against those who wanted less.)

    Now, there is an opportunity - I think - to convert anger about levels of immigration into a vote share above that level. But at the same time, the larger the vote share, and the more people you bring into the tent, the more tensions about the non-immigration part of the Reform manifesto.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629
    Leon said:

    Seems like Farage has been hoist by his own retard.

    That's going way over the heads of pro-Musk PBers.

    Very good nonetheless.
    As a Musk fanboi (the engineering, not the politics) I have to confess that I am indeed aware of the saying "hoist by his own petard", meaning "blown upwards by his own bomblet"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

    Really? I always thought it was something to do with flags?

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,554
    edited January 5

    Taz said:

    Farage replies to Musk.

    It’s like a soap opera. More entertaining than some of them

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1875918844562473373?s=61

    A mistake for Farage to refer to Tommy Robinson in his reply. He should have just attacked Musk for interfering in British politics.
    Yes. That actually makes it sound as if Reform is split over whether to give Tommy Robinson a high-profile role. Poorly expressed by Nigel. He's understandably a bit panicked.
    Farage has a bit of a problem. I've no doubt that a substantial minority, at least, of the rapidly-growing Reform subscribers (they're not really members, are they?) see Tommy Robinson as an unfairly victimised political prisoner. Farage has to square this with his own, correct, analysis that Robinson is electorally toxic. Up to now, he's ignored it or deflected from it.
    It's nice to see him have a problem.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ouch, the BBC have just pushed a notification out via their app on Elon dumping Nigel.

    Guardian leading on it.
    My discounted Guardian subscription proving very timely
    What do you get for your money ?

    Isn’t it free anyway ?
    No - half price digital access for a year, not restricted to a few articles a month
    Isn't the Graun still free if you choose? I have a subscription to a) support it and b) avoid adverts.
    No - it allows a few articles free a month but then it goes paywalled
    Not sure that’s correct - I read many many articles a day and have for many years and it never goes behind a paywall. I think they are determined that it’s never paywalled.

    Instead you get requests popping up on screen saying you have read x number of articles so please subscribe and they also do pop ups when a news story arises about, say Trump, and they write “this is why we need your support” etc.

    But not paywalled.
    After a while the access for the rest of the month is paywalled until the next month
    That’s their news app not the website.

    https://www.theguardian.com/help/insideguardian/2023/mar/22/an-update-on-reader-support-via-the-app
    That's a year old but I do use the Guardian app
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    Because he has no evidence of owning a plan, or even an idea - see social care now shunted off to 2028 - and indeed the Times has just revealed he came into office and was horrified to discover “there was no plan”

    In the absence of this we have had six months of dithering and grift and then a catastrophic budget. What makes you think it’s going to change?
    I'd have been far less concerned if he had said 2027, as it is a big problem to resolve and has been ignored for years. But given we can near definitely expect delays a plan for 2028 would surely be late 2028 at best, if not 2029, and I just don't buy any government in this era would make a major decision like that within 6-12 months of an election.

    So the fear it is just being punted into the long grass is natural, even if Streeting is correct and that is not the case.
    The inquiry won’t learn anything new. We know what the solution is. But the Treasury won’t fund it as Osborne’s branding of Dilnott as a “death tax” and labours response to mays proposals as a “dementia tax” have made a specific tax very challenging
    The solution of capping individual liability at £85k makes sense to me, with that amount being covered by the insurance market (new form of life insurance) or funding it from pension pots. Hardship cover by State in extreme circumstances.

    For any amount above that, which the State would pay, you could trade the triple lock or a delay in the state pension age.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Can’t see how this harms Farage given Musk still seems to think Robinson is a political prisoner.

    LOL. Part of the Farage shtick is hanging out with the big boyz. It's what, at least in part, giving him the big mo. Plus the prospect of a few dollars more.

    It's obvs not terminal. But a big slap nonetheless. Kemi will be having a laugh.
    I wonder if Musk will get behind a Tory. Kemi, or Jenrick

    However as we have seen, having Musk's support is like being defended by a someone with the loosest of loose cannons, as likely to blow your head off as shoot the enemy

    What they all want, however, is his money. Trump included
    If Farage is junked, or junks himself, that's great news for the Tories.

    No-one else has anything like his cut through, and neithee Lee Anderson or Richard Tice could do anything more than the Paul Nuttall 2.0
    Farage wont be junked. The worst that can happen is he gets no cash from Musk

    Farage made it clear on LK today he is looking at really developing Reform into a proper political party putting in place a structure to support it.

    I suspect he thinks his,party can replace the Tories.
    Yes, I think he might actually be serious.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037

    Leon said:

    Seems like Farage has been hoist by his own retard.

    That's going way over the heads of pro-Musk PBers.

    Very good nonetheless.
    As a Musk fanboi (the engineering, not the politics) I have to confess that I am indeed aware of the saying "hoist by his own petard", meaning "blown upwards by his own bomblet"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

    Really? I always thought it was something to do with flags?

    So did I. PB is so good for learning new things, although I'm not sure what use this will be other than showing off and being a smart arse when someone uses the phrase.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,768

    Is Musk perhaps suffering some sort of mental illness?

    Serious question. His outbursts seem to be becoming ever more eccentric.

    A simple explanation would just be that he has very poor self control when it comes to political utterances, and as a super rich and powerful man he has gotten used to no pushback for doing so (at least none that affects his bottom line).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,358
    kinabalu said:

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
    Well M**k seems to be promoting a cove called Rupert Lowe.

    He looks incredibly dodgy based on his photo.
    Was Nick Leesons boss at Barings (not sure if at the time it all went tits up).
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,940
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Can’t see how this harms Farage given Musk still seems to think Robinson is a political prisoner.

    LOL. Part of the Farage shtick is hanging out with the big boyz. It's what, at least in part, giving him the big mo. Plus the prospect of a few dollars more.

    It's obvs not terminal. But a big slap nonetheless. Kemi will be having a laugh.
    I wonder if Musk will get behind a Tory. Kemi, or Jenrick

    However as we have seen, having Musk's support is like being defended by a someone with the loosest of loose cannons, as likely to blow your head off as shoot the enemy

    What they all want, however, is his money. Trump included
    If Farage is junked, or junks himself, that's great news for the Tories.

    No-one else has anything like his cut through, and neithee Lee Anderson or Richard Tice could do anything more than the Paul Nuttall 2.0
    Farage wont be junked. The worst that can happen is he gets no cash from Musk

    Farage made it clear on LK today he is looking at really developing Reform into a proper political party putting in place a structure to support it.

    I suspect he thinks his,party can replace the Tories.
    I think it's a little more complex than that: I think there is a large -and still relatively empty- space for a nationalist, rather than an internationalist party. And it draws support from the Conservatives and Labour. Reform can easily, I suspect, get to 35%.

    After that, it becomes a little more difficult, not least because of the need to pull together two very different forms of nationalism. (Specifically the same issue with Brexit, between those who wanted us to leave the EU because they wanted more protectionism, against those who wanted less.)

    Now, there is an opportunity - I think - to convert anger about levels of immigration into a vote share above that level. But at the same time, the larger the vote share, and the more people you bring into the tent, the more tensions about the non-immigration part of the Reform manifesto.
    I read "Reform can easily, I suspect, get to 35%." then looked at who had posted it.
    The author was not amongst my list of suspects.
    I suspect Reform could get to mid twenties out of the election period as SDP /Alliance did, but I suspect they will be nearer 15% come the next GE.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cookie said:

    Damn it, dismantling Christmas trees is depressing...

    I quite enjoy it. Gives the house a feeling of minimality and spaciousness. Makes me think of the denoument of the Julia Donaldson book "a squash and a squeeze."
    Better than usual this year because for the first time in ten years or so we had a real tree, giving me the chance to wield a saw and vaguely imagine myself as some frontiersman with actual skills.
    Tsk - you don't dismantle it until after Epiphany, which is tomorrow.
    That's not how I understand it! I thought you had to dismantle it before epiphany.
    I'm aware that they did things differently in the olden days and that once upon a time advent was a period of abstemiousness and your decs went up on Christmas Eve and the 12 days of Christmas were a period of excess followed by another period of relative excess lasting until 2nd Feb (Michaelmas). But nowadays I thought it was considered bad luck not to have them down before 12th night.
    I always take them down on the 12th night. And, as for abstemiousness, I am trying for a dry January starting yesterday to try and shed some weight. We'll see how that goes.
    You could do what I do, and have 30 dry days in January and February. And I've organized this as 60 x half days. So, for half of each day in January and February, I don't drink.
    Ermm....not entirely sure that would help with the weight loss plan. Ingenious though.
    I was kidding: I've drunk on only one of the last eight days. I'm a lot more moderate in my imbibing these days.

    As far as getting healthier goes, can I recommend cycling.

    A couple of hours on a bike burns a lot of calories, and it's very good for your heart health, which is probably the single most important predictor of longevity. Plus it's fun. Albeit, it's probably more fun in places that are sunny and warm.
    Alright, don't rub it in.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Seems like Farage has been hoist by his own retard.

    That's going way over the heads of pro-Musk PBers.

    Very good nonetheless.
    As a Musk fanboi (the engineering, not the politics) I have to confess that I am indeed aware of the saying "hoist by his own petard", meaning "blown upwards by his own bomblet"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

    Really? I always thought it was something to do with flags?

    So did I. PB is so good for learning new things, although I'm not sure what use this will be other than showing off and being a smart arse when someone uses the phrase.
    I admit I thought it was a naval saying but it's from some obscure C16th playwright apparently.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    edited January 5

    kle4 said:

    Musk trying to pick the leader of Reform UK and yet again interfere in our democracy is a disgrace. What business does he have chiming in.

    I don't have an issue with anyone, from anywhere, chiming in on the domestic politics of another country.

    The issue with Musk is every utterance is breathlessly reported, he doesn't know as much about politics as he thinks he does, and he's addicted to mouthing off on twitter. Throw potential money into the mix and it just gets messy.

    Trying to mess with Farage's leadership is an odd move though - like him or loathe him Reform wouldn't be a significant thing without Farage, and even if the premise were true he has taken them as far as he can, other options don't come with Farage's strengths.
    The explanation is that Musk is genuinely is a proper right wing nutter. Farage has pushed back on supporting Robinson and also carve a bit of an independent path on other topics. He is now an obstacle not part of the solution
    It seems since Farage appeared on Kuenssberg this morning civil war is breaking out in Reform

    It was noticeable that at their conference in Leicester Farage was heckled when he announced Robinson was banned from joining Reform

    It is not a week is a long time in politics, a few hours are
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    kle4 said:

    Musk trying to pick the leader of Reform UK and yet again interfere in our democracy is a disgrace. What business does he have chiming in.

    I don't have an issue with anyone, from anywhere, chiming in on the domestic politics of another country.

    The issue with Musk is every utterance is breathlessly reported, he doesn't know as much about politics as he thinks he does, and he's addicted to mouthing off on twitter. Throw potential money into the mix and it just gets messy.

    Trying to mess with Farage's leadership is an odd move though - like him or loathe him Reform wouldn't be a significant thing without Farage, and even if the premise were true he has taken them as far as he can, other options don't come with Farage's strengths.
    The explanation is that Musk is genuinely is a proper right wing nutter. Farage has pushed back on supporting Robinson and also carve a bit of an independent path on other topics. He is now an obstacle not part of the solution
    Shouldn't he and Laurence Fox get on?

    We need Musk to obsess over Reclaim not Reform.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    rcs1000 said:

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Nigel is arguably the last genuine liberal left standing. He's our best hope for moderate politics to survive.
    Sure, sure.
    Nigel Farage is basically a maverick libertarian right-wing Tory.

    He's an ex metals trader and public school boy.

    Oh, and he once told me (20 years ago, over a pint) that if he was a stick of rock and you cut him in half you'd see the letters 'TORY' run through him but he left and then refused to rejoin (he was offered a rural safe seat several times) due to Maastrict.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,091
    I may be at risk of appearing in Pseuds Corner but after reading Eckart Frahm's book on Assyria I have been watching The Poor Man of Nippur - the only film in Babylonian. Don't worry - there are subtitles.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Very late to this, for which I apologise, but yet another excellent piece by @Cyclefree

    I absolutely can't wait to buy and read her book!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Seems like Farage has been hoist by his own retard.

    That's going way over the heads of pro-Musk PBers.

    Very good nonetheless.
    As a Musk fanboi (the engineering, not the politics) I have to confess that I am indeed aware of the saying "hoist by his own petard", meaning "blown upwards by his own bomblet"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard

    Really? I always thought it was something to do with flags?

    So did I. PB is so good for learning new things, although I'm not sure what use this will be other than showing off and being a smart arse when someone uses the phrase.
    You're both perhaps thinking of pennant/pendant, a kind of flag (same word in RN, orthography depending on date). E.g. A Commodore's pennant is hoisted when a captain of a ship is designated the senior and commanding captain of his group of warships.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    I still don’t understand why Musk is so engaged. You’d think running a large car company, a space launch company, a satellite comms company (all of which capable of being the biggest in their fields), a large social network baked into the fabric of western society, preparing to run a new Government Department in the U.S, and leading a chunk of Trump’s transition, would keep him busy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    kle4 said:

    Musk trying to pick the leader of Reform UK and yet again interfere in our democracy is a disgrace. What business does he have chiming in.

    I don't have an issue with anyone, from anywhere, chiming in on the domestic politics of another country.

    The issue with Musk is every utterance is breathlessly reported, he doesn't know as much about politics as he thinks he does, and he's addicted to mouthing off on twitter. Throw potential money into the mix and it just gets messy.

    Trying to mess with Farage's leadership is an odd move though - like him or loathe him Reform wouldn't be a significant thing without Farage, and even if the premise were true he has taken them as far as he can, other options don't come with Farage's strengths.
    The explanation is that Musk is genuinely is a proper right wing nutter. Farage has pushed back on supporting Robinson and also carve a bit of an independent path on other topics. He is now an obstacle not part of the solution
    It seems since Farage appeared on Kuenssberg this morning civil war is breaking out in Reform

    It was noticeable that at their conference in Leicester Farage was heckled when he announced Robinson was banned from joining Reform

    It is not a week is a long time in politics, a few hours are
    He's right, because Robinson being admitted shrinks Reform back to 15% or less.

    The Tories wouldn't naturally benefit, mind. They brand is so utterly damaged and even I don't think they'd deliver if re-elected, although they'd be better than this lot.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Who's openly gunning for Nigel within Reform?
    Just look at the responses to Elon's tweet. I didn't realize Rupert Lowe was a thing but it seems that he absolutely is.
    Ok, I thought you meant figures within the party. Not sure I'd call that a schism but it's a straw, by all means clutch it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    What I find most trying, is that people are not prepared to look at the case for why Starmer might end up being successful (I put this at 50/50), instead they just bleat "he is crap".

    He reformed the Labour party in five years, no other leader has ever done that and been as successful as him. I wish people would question why, as opposed to just shouting.

    I suppose the main issue is that he has done little to justify his majority. That's a result of a split opposition. He has no vision, no plan and cant take people with him as a result. He's the Chauncey Gardener of UK politics,
    Not really - if you add all the Reform votes to the Conservatives, and all the Lib Dem votes to Labour, you still get a "left-wing" majority of nearly 400 seats on a lead of 8 points.

    And LD voters are far closer to Labour voters than Reform voters are to Conservatives. Indeed, on some topics the remaining Conservative vote ( BigG trad types) are closer to Labour than they are Reform.
    I am not close to Labour under any circumstances

    I could be to the Lib Dems but I do not agree on their EU policy

    Simply I remain a conservative and will vote conservative, unless I can tactically vote out a Labour candidate
    Would you vote Reform to beat Labour?
    I don't know at this far out but having suffered Labour in Wales for 25 years anybody but Labour could also.include Plaid
    I'll mark you down as a yes then.
    Do whatever you want if it contributes to your well being

    You've already had to apologise to me this week after making a wholly false and wrong accusation, so another one incoming when I vote Plaid which is a very real prospect
    I apologised twice for the same error which occurred because quotes were faulty and something offensive was apparently self attributed ( incorrectly as it happens ) by you. But you can't let that go. Imagine how Starmer felt reading PB and all your accusations about Currygate. Did you apologise -twice per indiscretion?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,700

    Musk has apparently Tweeted against Nigel Farage.

    An interesting development - not wholly a disaster for NF.

    Very embarrassing though
    Really? It’s about Tommy Robinson. Farage comes out stronger for his Robinson position each time it’s flagged up, doesn’t he? He can’t be embarrassed by that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    To answer (a bit) @DavidL's thoughtful comments:-

    1. You're wrong about the political context and background not being put in reports. If anything there is quite a lot of it - especially in the blood contamination and Grenfell Tower reports, both of which I have read. And what those reports make clear is how often the political decisions and priorities were wrong or skewed in such a way that scandal was all but inevitable. This was not because of difficult choices which then turned out to be wrong. It was a failure of the state to do essential tasks which only it can do. The same can be said in the PO Inquiry - the political background is highly relevant. But the key point there - and I really hope it comes out (I have certainly made it a central point in the book) - is that for all the failings of Horizon etc, the scandal arose primarily because the state abandoned its fundamental duty with regard to the criminal justice system. It was that which failed and led to the scandal. And that failing had nothing to do with money. It arose because the lawyers were simply incompetent and the government and company did not understand the risks they were taking.

    2. Priorities - we all too often have the wrong ones. One of the reasons is because we create conflicts of interest eg with the NCB. But it is also our choices. In no decent society, even with a limited budget, should children have been put at risk in the way the Aberfan children were or the haemophiliacs were over tainted blood products.

    And finally -

    3. False economies - it is all too easy to say that we cannot afford this or that. But what is always forgotten is how often this is a false economy: the costs of putting matters right is many many multiples of what it would have cost to have prevented them in the first place. I have reams of examples from my professional life - a fraction of what was spent on fines, losses and remediation costs would have prevented the problems in the first place. But too many senior people were too blind to this, too unwilling to understand the risks or too focused on short-term savings at the risk of long-term catastrophe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,852
    biggles said:

    I still don’t understand why Musk is so engaged. You’d think running a large car company, a space launch company, a satellite comms company (all of which capable of being the biggest in their fields), a large social network baked into the fabric of western society, preparing to run a new Government Department in the U.S, and leading a chunk of Trump’s transition, would keep him busy.

    I think he spends more time awake than most people.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    I still don’t understand why Musk is so engaged. You’d think running a large car company, a space launch company, a satellite comms company (all of which capable of being the biggest in their fields), a large social network baked into the fabric of western society, preparing to run a new Government Department in the U.S, and leading a chunk of Trump’s transition, would keep him busy.

    I think he spends more time awake than most people.
    Maybe he has the woke mind virus.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Omnium said:

    Wes Streeting is a far better teller of the government's story than Starmer or Reeves.

    He's a better politician than both. Neither Starmer, who is a better manager nor Reeves who is a highly respected economist, ask Mark Carney, are natural politicians.

    Darren Jones and Jonathan Reynolds are as good as Streeting in terms of communicating under pressure but possibly overall higher intellect.

    Also a politician that is stuck at health. Cooper's going to hang on, Streeting replacing Reeves would be ludicrous, so I presume he's out to get Lammy?

    I think Streeting is really very good, but I don't warm to the man.
    Reeves is an interesting one. I’ve got my eye on the possibility of a 2025 exit for her.

    As always, “if” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here but it’s not impossible to visualise a scenario where the economy continues to flatline, inflation is stubborn, Trumps economic policies bite hard and the NI rise causes an uptick in unemployment. I think Reeves has created a hostage to fortune for saying she wouldn’t come back for more tax rises. Another unpopular budget could really spook Labour and might prompt a resignation or dismissal in an effort to relaunch the governments economic policy.

    That being said, it is not great for a PM to lose their chancellor. But Starmer has a ruthless streak. I don’t put it past him to jettison cabinet members to try and save his premiership.
    In principle yes. Starmer world get rid of Reeves if he thought that would serve him. But as of today I don't see how it does serve him. Reeves is doing what Starmer wants her to do.
    Why does he want her to fk up the economy ?
    Starmer wants Reeves to raise taxes. Beyond the cost of those taxes it isn't obvious Reeves is fucking up the economy.
    Starmer had no choice but to raise taxes as the NI cuts that Rishi and Hunt implemented in 2023/4 were based on complete lies.

    The issue for Reeves is that there was a sane way of reversing those cuts that she didn't adopt so she's massively increased Employer NI which is going to be awkward for a lot of minimum wage operators..
    I agree raising employee NI or income tax would be the better way to fill the fiscal gap.

    BIG HOWEVER. The public almost certainly prefers tax increases to fall on their employers than on themselves directly. For a government accused of being bad at politics this was a very politically aware decision.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,768
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    I still don’t understand why Musk is so engaged. You’d think running a large car company, a space launch company, a satellite comms company (all of which capable of being the biggest in their fields), a large social network baked into the fabric of western society, preparing to run a new Government Department in the U.S, and leading a chunk of Trump’s transition, would keep him busy.

    I think he spends more time awake than most people.
    I had a lecturer who speculated that a lot of the most impactful people in history are just those able to operate on less than average sleep.

    I am not one of those people
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    rcs1000 said:

    Sounds like there's a schism within Reform, with acolytes of Rupert Lowe/Tommy Robinson now openly gunning for Nigel, whom they regard as being too moderate. Musk is clearly receiving instructions from the Lowe/Robinson faction. Nigel is looking increasingly isolated. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for him.

    Nigel is arguably the last genuine liberal left standing. He's our best hope for moderate politics to survive.
    Sure, sure.
    Nigel Farage is basically a maverick libertarian right-wing Tory.

    He's an ex metals trader and public school boy.

    Oh, and he once told me (20 years ago, over a pint) that if he was a stick of rock and you cut him in half you'd see the letters 'TORY' run through him but he left and then refused to rejoin (he was offered a rural safe seat several times) due to Maastrict.
    That's how I see him. His politics fit squarely into that wing of the Tories.
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