More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
I think the substantive point here is that Lowe has not opened up a rift with NF on the Robinson point. His support for Farage here is somewhat restrained, and his specific reference to 'democratising the party' is not without a bit of edge, but the fact remains that his position on Robinson here is not much Tommier than Nigel's own.
Liverpool can’t go dropping points at home against relegation haunted sides with array of difficult away games coming at them. Liverpool spent the first half looking leggy and yard off the pace - that’s where they dropped the points.
I suppose if Reform are not getting £100 million the faux outrage by the main parties over foreign donors goes away and they can keep the cash coming in.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Re Farage and Reform. It's just obvious that he has no future in company with TR or with Musk. While Trump's dark side has to be put up with, Musk's doesn't and UK voters won't.
Populist social democratic nationalism with easy answers to complex problems can do well on those terms.
There is an imponderable problem it faces. The unacknowledged truth is that Reform supporters views on migration and so on is a multi faceted problem. It isn't mostly about numbers. It's about what sort of people, racially, culturally, morally and religiously, and in terms of class. All this transgresses the normal boundaries of civil public discourse. And in the end I think other parties too will find this a challenge.
Ben Habib predicted Farage would take all the Reform money and run.
He is majority shareholder
He will cut and run.
This Ben Habib ?
The one who thinks Tommy Robinson’s plight is partly political.
You may trust his judgement because ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’, I don’t.
Re Farage and Reform. It's just obvious that he has no future in company with TR or with Musk. While Trump's dark side has to be put up with, Musk's doesn't and UK voters won't.
Populist social democratic nationalism with easy answers to complex problems can do well on those terms.
There is an imponderable problem it faces. The unacknowledged truth is that Reform supporters views on migration and so on is a multi faceted problem. It isn't mostly about numbers. It's about what sort of people, racially, culturally, morally and religiously, and in terms of class. All this transgresses the normal boundaries of civil public discourse. And in the end I think other parties too will find this a challenge.
Ben Habib predicted Farage would take all the Reform money and run.
He is majority shareholder
He will cut and run.
This Ben Habib ?
The one who thinks Tommy Robinson’s plight is partly political.
You may trust his judgement because ‘my enemies enemy is my friend’, I don’t.
I compel anyone to read the publicly available judgment on the libel case. It was quite clear his “witnesses” were lying through their teeth in what they said about the boy who allegedly attacked them.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
I’m sure there is a list of many. My point was more about Robinson not contributing anything rather than diminishing anyones endeavours.
Liverpool can’t go dropping points at home against relegation haunted sides with array of difficult away games coming at them. Liverpool spent the first half looking leggy and yard off the pace - that’s where they dropped the points.
Manchester United were excellent today and nearly snatched it at the end
However, Liverpool are 6 points ahead and have a game in hand
Not only that, in Salah they have the best player in the league and will win it
I compel anyone to read the publicly available judgment on the libel case. It was quite clear his “witnesses” were lying through their teeth in what they said about the boy who allegedly attacked them.
He has multiple convictions too including one for fraud.
He is clearly what you say and I don’t get why anyone would follow him.
Gotta confess, a US billionaire forcing Farage out of his own party in order to replace him with a convicted criminal currently actually in jail wasn't on my new year bingo card.
Nor mine. I’m glad I haven’t submitted my replies to Benpointer’s quiz, yet.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
I think the substantive point here is that Lowe has not opened up a rift with NF on the Robinson point. His support for Farage here is somewhat restrained, and his specific reference to 'democratising the party' is not without a bit of edge, but the fact remains that his position on Robinson here is not much Tommier than Nigel's own.
The substantiative point is that Reform is Farage and everyone else is there on his whim. Lowe knows where he stands.
You've made an allegation against Rupert Lowe, can you back it up with a link from a reputable news source?
Mr Lowe has made a successful libel claim in the past so I would suggest worth treading very carefully.
"Lowe won a libel case against The Times in 2005 regarding a column by the sportswriter Martin Samuel that alleged that Lowe had treated Jones "shabbily" following the latter's suspension after he was accused of child abuse charges on which he was subsequently acquitted. Lowe was awarded £250,000, which he pledged to donate to charity."
Starmer has held two different positions in the past, with regard to his time as DPP: one, that he was in charge of everything, and good cases were persued because of him; and two, that he is not fully responsible for prosecution decisions made in cases he was not personally involved in. He will have to thread the needle...
(Should we expect people in public service to resign when something happens on their watch even when they weren't personally responsible or not? We do with Cabinet ministers...)
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
It's from during or after 2010 as at 1 minutes 35 seconds it mentions she was an MP between 1997 and 2010.
One of them was to the legal chain of responsibility for the airworthiness of aircraft in U.K. military service.
Sometime later a rather bizarre attempt was made to update Nimrod airframes to use them as sub hunters. The disastrous project produced an aircraft that was judged in-airworthy. And not plausibly fixable, by the experts.
The civil servants and high RAF officials (sometimes referred to as Their Airships), tried the traditional work around. To order the officer responsible to issue an airworthiness certificate. To refuse such an order would be a court martial offence.
However, the lawyers pointed out that unlike former times, those who issued the order would be legally liable. Instead of the buck stopping with the chap signing the airworthiness documents, the civil servants etc would be liable as well.
Upset, they resorted to trying to get the minister to issue the order. He refused.
So the Nimrods were scrapped.
This episode shows, to me, the advantage of making liability a chain.
In banking, SOX caused similar ructions. As a manager at ABMARO put it “I could go to prison if the law is broken!!!”
SOX included the concept that you were legally liable unless you had taken detailed, traceable steps to prevent your subordinates committing crimes.
Equally, I personally legally liable, in my current job, to report fraud, money laundering and some other financial crimes. Without tipping off the criminals.
If I were him, I would would try to take the heat out by:
1) acknowledging the full horror 2) describing factually and in detail the history and what has been done, both legally and politically wrt inquiries 3) explain what, if anything, he will do now.
If he doesn't announce a big judge-led inquiry tomorrow, he'd better be sure he won't be pushed into it next week.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
I did mention Ann Cryer in the post Cyclefree replied to.
She was treated shabbily at the time and some in labour ostracised her.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hah. Looks like we all agree
Guess it depends what Starmer says. If he’s literally just going to defend himself this is, potentially, a major blunder. It will simply associate him even more strongly with an appalling story - exactly what his enemies want
However maybe he’s got something cleverer in mind
Perhaps he’s going to admit all the drones off New Jersey are actually advanced UK tech and he will proceed to drone Elon Musk, then do it live on air as we also see the SAS storming Tennessee and taking Taylor Swift hostage and flying her back to Wick
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
I presume he behaves exactly like this in running his companies? Who on earth would want to work with someone like this? Steve Jobs could be extremely difficult but Musk seems in a different league.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
Around 2013 I wrote a story about how Wikipedia was editing these cases into oblivion, including Charlene Downs (the murdered girl who allegedly got sold as kebab meat in Blackpool)
Incredibly, a bunch of lefty wiki editors decided her story was “unimportant” and got it deleted. Because of my article it was reinstated. There is a new article now
So I know personally how the left has been ferociously suppressing this story for DECADES
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Indeed, there was a certain Billy Glenn of this parish who was doing that at the time.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Genuinely will you ever make a post that isn’t whataboutism?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Indeed, there was a certain Billy Glenn of this parish who was doing that at the time.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
I’ll be surprised if he announces an inquiry - but as you say it could actually be a clever move
Starmer says nothing: what has Starmer got to hide
Starmer says something: why doesn’t he just stay quiet?
This entire issue has been brought up to damage the government. Musk has put out insane lies and slander against Labour politicians and has put a target on their back. He needs to desist or be blocked. He’s going to get somebody killed.
One of them was to the legal chain of responsibility for the airworthiness of aircraft in U.K. military service.
Sometime later a rather bizarre attempt was made to update Nimrod airframes to use them as sub hunters. The disastrous project produced an aircraft that was judged in-airworthy. And not plausibly fixable, by the experts.
The civil servants and high RAF officials (sometimes referred to as Their Airships), tried the traditional work around. To order the officer responsible to issue an airworthiness certificate. To refuse such an order would be a court martial offence.
However, the lawyers pointed out that unlike former times, those who issued the order would be legally liable. Instead of the buck stopping with the chap signing the airworthiness documents, the civil servants etc would be liable as well.
Upset, they resorted to trying to get the minister to issue the order. He refused.
So the Nimrods were scrapped.
This episode shows, to me, the advantage of making liability a chain.
In banking, SOX caused similar ructions. As a manager at ABMARO put it “I could go to prison if the law is broken!!!”
SOX included the concept that you were legally liable unless you had taken detailed, traceable steps to prevent your subordinates committing crimes.
Equally, I personally legally liable, in my current job, to report fraud, money laundering and some other financial crimes. Without tipping off the criminals.
What we need is this, throughout public life.
I’ll go further, and say that we also need an AAIB/RAIB to watch the civil service. Whenever there’s a fcukup, there’s a 6-18 month investigation with access to every single communication and that reports back with a no-blame report about how ***the system*** needs to be improved to stop this incident from ever happening again.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
I’ll be surprised if he announces an inquiry - but as you say it could actually be a clever move
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Genuinely will you ever make a post that isn’t whataboutism?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
How's that dangerous?
It's fair speech. Now there are reasons why Starmer didn't prosecute Saville but that is fair to debate, not dangerous.
Deciding only an official narrative can be told and everyone else needs to STFU ... that is dangerous.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
From 2004:
Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford's social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time.
There's been a lot said about Edge of the City - almost all of it by people who had not actually seen the controversial documentary on Bradford's social services.
More than a year in the making, Edge of the City follows social workers with difficult cases in one inner city.
The most controversial of these witnesses authorities and parents trying to stop groups of young men who are grooming girls as young as 11 for sex.
Although none of the officials in the film raise race as the issue in these predatory relationships, the filmmakers make it perfectly clear that the abusers are predominantly Asian, and all of the abused girls are white.
...
But, how the programme deals with the story of sexual abuse in Keighley and Bradford is more problematic.
Without a doubt, the programme makers, with their remarkable access to social workers, came across a tragic story which needed telling.
A Barnardos expert says "scores" of young men are involved; her local social services colleague says there is a massive hole in what the authorities can do. The filmmakers talk to one girl who has had 100 sexual partners.
But time and time again, the programme leaves questions unanswered.
Very early on in the film, the narrator says Bradford's ethnic mix "traditionally" leaves a city divided. Difference is, of course, noticeable - but does it inevitably create division? Other cities would consider this a glib conclusion.
When the narrator explains that some abused girls are as young as 11, why does the camera stop on a shot of Bradford's main mosque?
And when the narrator says that young Pakistani drugs gangs are beyond the control of "community elders", are we being told this entire community should be considered guilty of neglect?
Starmer says nothing: what has Starmer got to hide
Starmer says something: why doesn’t he just stay quiet?
This entire issue has been brought up to damage the government. Musk has put out insane lies and slander against Labour politicians and has put a target on their back. He needs to desist or be blocked. He’s going to get somebody killed.
Be blocked?
For free speech?
If you don't like what someone has to say, win the battle of ideas. Blocking them is the dangerous, dictatorial path.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
The smart thing to do politically would be to just announce an enquiry. It takes some of the heat out of things at little cost to him. It might make Jess Phillips’ position rocky but even if it forces her out of government or she quits it gives her plenty of scope to return in future.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Genuinely will you ever make a post that isn’t whataboutism?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
How's that dangerous?
It's fair speech. Now there are reasons why Starmer didn't prosecute Saville but that is fair to debate, not dangerous.
Deciding only an official narrative can be told and everyone else needs to STFU ... that is dangerous.
Musk is on a personal vendetta against Starmer. He called for the king to remove the government. He called for a new election despite not being a citizen here. He called Jess Phillips a rape supporter.
The fact you can’t see how dangerous this stuff is, is worrying.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
Chris Mullin's diaries from the early 2000's show quite clearly that he was aware of what Anne Cryer was saying, as were other Labour MPs and that it was embarrassing. They looked the other way.
People with the power to do something looking the other way when first told about problems or an embarrassing issue is the sine qua non of every scandal.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
Musk has said what he’s said. He needs to be held accountable and stopped before the temperature rises too much. He’s already radicalised a few posters here. Something very bad is going to happen, if we are not careful.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Genuinely will you ever make a post that isn’t whataboutism?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
How's that dangerous?
It's fair speech. Now there are reasons why Starmer didn't prosecute Saville but that is fair to debate, not dangerous.
Deciding only an official narrative can be told and everyone else needs to STFU ... that is dangerous.
Musk is on a personal vendetta against Starmer. He called for the king to remove the government. He called for a new election despite not being a citizen here. He called Jess Phillips a rape supporter.
The fact you can’t see how dangerous this stuff is, is worrying.
What in that is dangerous?
Your opponents have the right to criticise you.
People with a vendetta against you have a right to speak.
It doesn't make what they're saying right, but they have the right to say it. There's nothing dangerous in that.
Going down the path of censorship, that is dangerous.
Honestly Elon Musk is so incredibly dangerous. He’s going to get somebody killed with this rhetoric.
People tend to be very selective about what rhetoric they regard as dangerous. As I pointed out yesterday, people were happy to raise the temperature over Brexit to the point of lying about threats to starve Ireland, as if they were willing the IRA to assassiante more Tory politicians.
Genuinely will you ever make a post that isn’t whataboutism?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
How's that dangerous?
It's fair speech. Now there are reasons why Starmer didn't prosecute Saville but that is fair to debate, not dangerous.
Deciding only an official narrative can be told and everyone else needs to STFU ... that is dangerous.
Musk is on a personal vendetta against Starmer. He called for the king to remove the government. He called for a new election despite not being a citizen here. He called Jess Phillips a rape supporter.
The fact you can’t see how dangerous this stuff is, is worrying.
You could say that the policy of taking over provincial hotels and filling them with young male asylum seekers is also dangerous, and it has already got at least one person killed.
One of them was to the legal chain of responsibility for the airworthiness of aircraft in U.K. military service.
Sometime later a rather bizarre attempt was made to update Nimrod airframes to use them as sub hunters. The disastrous project produced an aircraft that was judged in-airworthy. And not plausibly fixable, by the experts.
The civil servants and high RAF officials (sometimes referred to as Their Airships), tried the traditional work around. To order the officer responsible to issue an airworthiness certificate. To refuse such an order would be a court martial offence.
However, the lawyers pointed out that unlike former times, those who issued the order would be legally liable. Instead of the buck stopping with the chap signing the airworthiness documents, the civil servants etc would be liable as well.
Upset, they resorted to trying to get the minister to issue the order. He refused.
So the Nimrods were scrapped.
This episode shows, to me, the advantage of making liability a chain.
In banking, SOX caused similar ructions. As a manager at ABMARO put it “I could go to prison if the law is broken!!!”
SOX included the concept that you were legally liable unless you had taken detailed, traceable steps to prevent your subordinates committing crimes.
Equally, I personally legally liable, in my current job, to report fraud, money laundering and some other financial crimes. Without tipping off the criminals.
What we need is this, throughout public life.
I’ll go further, and say that we also need an AAIB/RAIB to watch the civil service. Whenever there’s a fcukup, there’s a 6-18 month investigation with access to every single communication and that reports back with a no-blame report about how ***the system*** needs to be improved to stop this incident from ever happening again.
It’s not the “civil service”
It’s the pyramid of civil service, social services, contractors etc etc who make up the permanent system of government.
And the private sector as well - if you exclude on area from such liability, liability will be transferred.
Quangos have their uses for “insulating” - a term used in understanding fraud/money laundering structures - but I think we can apply it to legal and moral liability.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
The smart thing to do politically would be to just announce an enquiry. It takes some of the heat out of things at little cost to him. It might make Jess Phillips’ position rocky but even if it forces her out of government or she quits it gives her plenty of scope to return in future.
We already had an enquiry. Why don’t we implement the suggestions of that.
Musk has said what he’s said. He needs to be held accountable and stopped before the temperature rises too much. He’s already radicalised a few posters here. Something very bad is going to happen, if we are not careful.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
He dealt with the issue harder and more effectively than anyone before him.
The fact is CPS did not see much of the evidence when they did he acted.
If course this doesn't suit right wing bone heads who suddenly jump on a 14 years old bandwagon that the Tories repeatedly kicked in to the long grass.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
From 2004:
Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford's social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time.
There's been a lot said about Edge of the City - almost all of it by people who had not actually seen the controversial documentary on Bradford's social services.
More than a year in the making, Edge of the City follows social workers with difficult cases in one inner city.
The most controversial of these witnesses authorities and parents trying to stop groups of young men who are grooming girls as young as 11 for sex.
Although none of the officials in the film raise race as the issue in these predatory relationships, the filmmakers make it perfectly clear that the abusers are predominantly Asian, and all of the abused girls are white.
...
But, how the programme deals with the story of sexual abuse in Keighley and Bradford is more problematic.
Without a doubt, the programme makers, with their remarkable access to social workers, came across a tragic story which needed telling.
A Barnardos expert says "scores" of young men are involved; her local social services colleague says there is a massive hole in what the authorities can do. The filmmakers talk to one girl who has had 100 sexual partners.
But time and time again, the programme leaves questions unanswered.
Very early on in the film, the narrator says Bradford's ethnic mix "traditionally" leaves a city divided. Difference is, of course, noticeable - but does it inevitably create division? Other cities would consider this a glib conclusion.
When the narrator explains that some abused girls are as young as 11, why does the camera stop on a shot of Bradford's main mosque?
And when the narrator says that young Pakistani drugs gangs are beyond the control of "community elders", are we being told this entire community should be considered guilty of neglect?
Ann Cryer, the chairwoman of the Labour Party’s National Policy Forum, was widely vilified in 2003 when she first tried to bring a staggering circle of crime to light.
Liverpool can’t go dropping points at home against relegation haunted sides with array of difficult away games coming at them. Liverpool spent the first half looking leggy and yard off the pace - that’s where they dropped the points.
Manchester United were excellent today and nearly snatched it at the end
However, Liverpool are 6 points ahead and have a game in hand
Not only that, in Salah they have the best player in the league and will win it
I think you have put the finger on the actual button here. Salah has an incredible goal involvement of over 70% so far this season. But to what degree will the rest of the team step up if his form drops off or he’s injured for length of time? We can’t know. And that’s the problem when everything giving team cutting edge goes through one great player.
It’s not just Salah who won’t be at the club next season, Arnold, who has turned down millions having not signed a new contract, proving he made his mind up to leave ages ago, didn’t turn up today.
It’s not just this game Liverpool looked jaded and their press was poor, their performances have been slipping this direction throughout December, meaning they don’t look as strong defensively. The extra gruelling Champions League programme could be taking its toll - it was incredible the Everton away game cancelled and only one blank week was available in next few months. Tiredness equals not just dropped points but injuries too - have you noticed an outbreak of hamstring strains and tears occurring over the last week or so.
And the fixture list was so kind to Liverpool up until Christmas, but is far steeper test from here on in. How will they bounce back or react mentally if they take just 2 points from 12 and are back in the chasing pack? We can’t possibly know, especially as so many of these players haven’t won anything recently, unlike Man City.
comparing the fixtures, I think Man City will win the title in May, or if not, will come very very close to denying Liverpool.
Musk has said what he’s said. He needs to be held accountable and stopped before the temperature rises too much. He’s already radicalised a few posters here. Something very bad is going to happen, if we are not careful.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
We need to regulate social media, urgently.
You are repeating yourself, and it seems you want to close down free speech rather than win the argument
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
There's probably a reasonable preview in Tom Baldwin's biography of Starmer. Key pages here:
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Musk has said what he’s said. He needs to be held accountable and stopped before the temperature rises too much. He’s already radicalised a few posters here. Something very bad is going to happen, if we are not careful.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.
Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.
There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth
He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
It's a measure of @kinabalu's morality that his concern here is the manipulation of the scandal by "the far right" not the thousands and thousands and thousands of victims. Says it all
Do you remember when Lee Rigby was murdered? I remember then bring surprised-but-not-really hiw quickly - less than 24 hours - the narrative moved on from "this is awful because some Islamic nutter has just murdered someone" to "this is awful because it might strengthen the argument of the far right." But then it feels like for 30 years the far right has been seen as the bogeyman, rather than the people actually doing the rapes and murders. Which attitude has allowed the far right to grow from a bogeyman which barely existed to one which very much does.
To what extent is Trump licencing Musk to launch these attacks?
That's an interesting question for me.
To no extent, at a guess. Does Trump have the self restraint to let Musk do all this and not dive in himself? He's not known for his abilities at delegation.
I don't think we'll get a gotcha moment from Starmer's speech. I think he'll deliver it with his customary level of charisma, but I think it will be well-prepared and crafted and dwell on the bits he did well on.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
The smart thing to do politically would be to just announce an enquiry. It takes some of the heat out of things at little cost to him. It might make Jess Phillips’ position rocky but even if it forces her out of government or she quits it gives her plenty of scope to return in future.
We already had an enquiry. Why don’t we implement the suggestions of that.
Numerous Enquiries with many actions being actively worked upon
Want to blame a person actually responsible for ignoring the issue.. Braverman and Sunak.
Before them fecking Boris with his not spaffing up 60 million quote
If course once again this does not suit the low IQ bone head brigade.
Liverpool can’t go dropping points at home against relegation haunted sides with array of difficult away games coming at them. Liverpool spent the first half looking leggy and yard off the pace - that’s where they dropped the points.
Manchester United were excellent today and nearly snatched it at the end
However, Liverpool are 6 points ahead and have a game in hand
Not only that, in Salah they have the best player in the league and will win it
I think you have put the finger on the actual button here. Salah has an incredible goal involvement of over 70% so far this season. But to what degree will the rest of the team step up if his form drops off or he’s injured for length of time? We can’t know. And that’s the problem when everything giving team cutting edge goes through one great player.
It’s not just Salah who won’t be at the club next season, Arnold, who has turned down millions having not signed a new contract, proving he made his mind up to leave ages ago, didn’t turn up today.
It’s not just this game Liverpool looked jaded and their press was poor, their performances have been slipping this direction throughout December, meaning they don’t look as strong defensively. The extra gruelling Champions League programme could be taking its toll - it was incredible the Everton away game cancelled and only one blank week was available in next few months. Tiredness equals not just dropped points but injuries too - have you noticed an outbreak of hamstring strains and tears occurring over the last week or so.
And the fixture list was so kind to Liverpool up until Christmas, but is far steeper test from here on in. How will they bounce back or react mentally if they take just 2 points from 12 and are back in the chasing pack? We can’t possibly know, especially as so many of these players haven’t won anything recently, unlike Man City.
comparing the fixtures, I think Man City will win the title in May, or if not, will come very very close to denying Liverpool.
How the hell was the fixture list kind to Liverpool up until Christmas?
The only realistic (sorry Forest!) challenger for the title is Arsenal and the first half fixture between Liverpool and Arsenal was played at the Emirates. The second half of the season fixture is due at Anfield.
So Liverpool have 6 points, a game in hand, and the second half fixture between them and their challenger is being played at home.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
There's probably a reasonable preview in Tom Baldwin's biography of Starmer. Key pages here:
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Sometimes, we really are all guilty.
It doesn’t matter what the truth is when the world’s richest man can amplify his Tweets and post completely unsubstantiated lies day after day. There is literally nothing being done to hold him to account for what he’s said on his own platform. That is a big problem.
It would be just the same if he were attacking Kemi Badenoch, or even Nigel Farage.
It’s not just that he lies endlessly, it’s that because of Twitter he will brainwash people and convince them it’s true even when it’s patently not. Just look at the comments under any Starmer Tweet to see what’s happening. It’s a sewer.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
Around 2013 I wrote a story about how Wikipedia was editing these cases into oblivion, including Charlene Downs (the murdered girl who allegedly got sold as kebab meat in Blackpool)
Incredibly, a bunch of lefty wiki editors decided her story was “unimportant” and got it deleted. Because of my article it was reinstated. There is a new article now
So I know personally how the left has been ferociously suppressing this story for DECADES
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
There's probably a reasonable preview in Tom Baldwin's biography of Starmer. Key pages here:
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Sometimes, we really are all guilty.
It doesn’t matter what the truth is when the world’s richest man can amplify his Tweets and post completely unsubstantiated lies day after day. There is literally nothing being done to hold him to account for what he’s said on his own platform. That is a big problem.
It would be just the same if he were attacking Kemi Badenoch, or even Nigel Farage.
It’s not just that he lies endlessly, it’s that because of Twitter he will brainwash people and convince them it’s true even when it’s patently not. Just look at the comments under any Starmer Tweet to see what’s happening. It’s a sewer.
Alan Johnson says the last public inquiry into 'rape gangs' cost £200 million.
Do we really need another one?
I note with his lies that Musk hasn’t once commented that the last government held an enquiry and then ignored literally every one of its recommendations.
And people lap it up. All because he hates Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party.
Interesting that Tesla sales have also dropped for the first time in many, many years.
I would think that a part of that must be a backlash to the sheer extent of his political interference, in various places.
I was thinking of buying a car in 2023 and Tesla looked attractive. I ended up buying a car at the end of 2024 and didn't even consider Tesla, and wouldn't have done even at half price (assuming no immediate re-sale).
To what extent is Trump licencing Musk to launch these attacks?
That's an interesting question for me.
To no extent, at a guess. Does Trump have the self restraint to let Musk do all this and not dive in himself? He's not known for his abilities at delegation.
Trump is not licencing these attacks. That seems ridiculous even for him.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
He dealt with the issue harder and more effectively than anyone before him.
The fact is CPS did not see much of the evidence when they did he acted.
If course this doesn't suit right wing bone heads who suddenly jump on a 14 years old bandwagon that the Tories repeatedly kicked in to the long grass.
So where does the fault lie? I'm not blaming Starmer. The CPS can only act on evidence that is brought to it. But I don't think it'll be enough to clear his own name. He's the PM. This was a grotesque failing of the state and he needs to be well answered. Labour is very vulnerable to the idea that the party ignored it because it feared losing votes as a result. That's the kind of stain they might never recover from.
Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.
Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.
There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth
He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
It's a measure of @kinabalu's morality that his concern here is the manipulation of the scandal by "the far right" not the thousands and thousands and thousands of victims. Says it all
Do you remember when Lee Rigby was murdered? I remember then bring surprised-but-not-really hiw quickly - less than 24 hours - the narrative moved on from "this is awful because some Islamic nutter has just murdered someone" to "this is awful because it might strengthen the argument of the far right." But then it feels like for 30 years the far right has been seen as the bogeyman, rather than the people actually doing the rapes and murders. Which attitude has allowed the far right to grow from a bogeyman which barely existed to one which very much does.
It’s the famous Norm Macdonald joke. Never truer than now
“Imagine how bad it would be if ISIS set off a nuclear bomb that killed 50 million Americans. I mean - just think of the backlash against innocent Muslims”
Anyway - just got back from my parents', who have just unearthed my grandfathers' stamp collection. It's fascinating. I thought pb might be interested in these from 1975 (I think!):
More interestingly, he had a single 'Germany' album, having lived there in the 70s, with stamps going back to the 1870s, including a 1941 page with 7 stamps with yer actual Hitler on.
More awareness has been raised around the rape and abuse of thousands of vulnerable British girls in the last few days than has ever happened before. As a country, this is a conversation we needed to have. It shames our political class that it has taken a man of Elon Musk’s influence to drag this into the light.
This is where the focus should remain, not elsewhere - swift and brutal justice for those responsible.
Tommy Robinson’s role in exposing these gangs should be acknowledged. He is not right for Reform, but I do think that his efforts in revealing these heinous crimes should not be overlooked.
I thank Elon for his kind comments. I just want to do what is right for my constituency and my country - that is my only interest.
Nigel is leader of Reform. He made Brexit happen, and for that I will always be grateful. I look forward to working with Nigel and the entire team to continue to hold this incompetent Labour Party to account, democratise our own party, win the next election and form a Reform Government.
A power from outside the existing political establishment is the ONLY way to achieve the change this country so desperately needs
I had thought him a quite effective local MP but this is fucking pathetic. Robinson did nothing to expose these gangs. He nearly caused a trial to collapse and used the scandal for his own political ends. People like Maggie Oliver, Nazir Afzal, Ann Cryer and Andrew Norfolk did their part in exposing it, truly exposing it.
Julie Bindel was the first journalist to write about the issue. In 2006.
Julie Bindel and also Ann Cryer MP.
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
From 2004:
Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford's social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time.
There's been a lot said about Edge of the City - almost all of it by people who had not actually seen the controversial documentary on Bradford's social services.
More than a year in the making, Edge of the City follows social workers with difficult cases in one inner city.
The most controversial of these witnesses authorities and parents trying to stop groups of young men who are grooming girls as young as 11 for sex.
Although none of the officials in the film raise race as the issue in these predatory relationships, the filmmakers make it perfectly clear that the abusers are predominantly Asian, and all of the abused girls are white.
...
But, how the programme deals with the story of sexual abuse in Keighley and Bradford is more problematic.
Without a doubt, the programme makers, with their remarkable access to social workers, came across a tragic story which needed telling.
A Barnardos expert says "scores" of young men are involved; her local social services colleague says there is a massive hole in what the authorities can do. The filmmakers talk to one girl who has had 100 sexual partners.
But time and time again, the programme leaves questions unanswered.
Very early on in the film, the narrator says Bradford's ethnic mix "traditionally" leaves a city divided. Difference is, of course, noticeable - but does it inevitably create division? Other cities would consider this a glib conclusion.
When the narrator explains that some abused girls are as young as 11, why does the camera stop on a shot of Bradford's main mosque?
And when the narrator says that young Pakistani drugs gangs are beyond the control of "community elders", are we being told this entire community should be considered guilty of neglect?
Ann Cryer, the chairwoman of the Labour Party’s National Policy Forum, was widely vilified in 2003 when she first tried to bring a staggering circle of crime to light.
Mothers raised the issue. A woman Labour MP raised it. A female journalist raised it. A female police officer and social worker raised it. Some of the abused girls raised it.
It was only when some men did so that people paid attention.
Hmm… not sure that’s the best tactic personally but we’ll see.
Seems unwise to keep the story going
Hold on, I thought you were on Team "You can't shut the argument down, you have to win it"?
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
I can't believe the number of people who think it's seriously unfair that light in being shone on the grooming gang issue. Starmer can defend his record but it'll only be by saying that the blame lay elsewhere that he can do so. Who will he thrown under the bus? Labour councils? The police?
There's probably a reasonable preview in Tom Baldwin's biography of Starmer. Key pages here:
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Sometimes, we really are all guilty.
It doesn’t matter what the truth is when the world’s richest man can amplify his Tweets and post completely unsubstantiated lies day after day. There is literally nothing being done to hold him to account for what he’s said on his own platform. That is a big problem.
It would be just the same if he were attacking Kemi Badenoch, or even Nigel Farage.
It’s not just that he lies endlessly, it’s that because of Twitter he will brainwash people and convince them it’s true even when it’s patently not. Just look at the comments under any Starmer Tweet to see what’s happening. It’s a sewer.
Far too much deflection going on. Blaming Musk simply won't do. Whatever his faults he has simply drawn attention to an issue that has been disgracefully under-reported, both in terms of the crimes but in particular the institutional failings which are inexplicable and have never been properly evaluated. If you doubt the failings of the mainstream media on this consider that a few weeks ago we had sentencing from Rotherham involving some truly unspeakable crimes against children that was totally ignored by the mainstream media other than GB News and their dogged reporter Charlie Peters. Please let that sink in, particularly if you are of the GBeebies school of thought. Sometimes the establishment should just hold it's hands up and say we've let you down. Instead the stubbornness and arrogance with which they continue to behave will be their undoing. I'm not entirely sure I like the alternative that's presented but it's where we are heading unless something changes.
Denis McShane (admittedly a former jailbird) said there was a reluctance to 'rock the multicultural community boat'. I'm not sure I buy that. Are our leaders really as ideologically obsessed as that? Because that is what it would have to be. After 9/11, 7/7 and much else? The more obvious explanation is party politics. Everyone knows that they 'weigh' the Labour votes in predominantly Muslim areas. This could have caused the party major unease. And what of the failures Tories? Here we might look to the much admired (if not for much longer) Chris Mullin. He tweets today that GB News and the Telegraph are jumping on the Musk bandwagon and politics is about to get nastier. Ultimately politics is a vocation for gentlemen. The last thing you want to do is draw attention to unseemly issues that might lower the tone. In such instances it means things must be avoided. Until they can't be. But blaming Musk in this instance is simply shooting the messenger.
There is nothing new about the left attacking the right. They think it is their right to do it and to do it with impunity. Musk is actually making politics nicer. People who asked such wonders as how many children Boris had, or wondered who would F*** Ann Widdicombe or tried to justify the last budget really deserve all they will get, especially the loathsome Ian Hislop who must be waiting for a special circle in hell.
Indeed. It really is as simple as that. And for all the hyperventilation about Jenrick he is saying the basic if uncomfortable truth
He’s ALSO a conniving rat of a politician who is shamelessly exploiting a national scandal and hoping to position himself to take over from Kemi in a year when the country has swung hard right and the Tories will need to unite with Reform
Muslims have no place in Britain is the message. It's neither true nor (for those saying it) uncomfortable. The opposite in fact on both counts.
I haven't seen Jenrick's latest remarks though I doubt that is what he actually said. But again all your are doing is ignoring the actual issue and instead insinuating motives for the opposition. That ain't good enough.
I'm not ignoring the issue. I'm highlighting it. The concerted attempt to use the grooming gangs scandal to promote far right politics in this country.
Exactly. You don't get that the grooming gangs IS the real issue. The decades long betrayal of vulnerable white girls by people who were either corrupt, incompetent or motivated by politics. If half of what Raja Miah says about Oldham is true it's quite staggering.
It's a measure of @kinabalu's morality that his concern here is the manipulation of the scandal by "the far right" not the thousands and thousands and thousands of victims. Says it all
Do you remember when Lee Rigby was murdered? I remember then bring surprised-but-not-really hiw quickly - less than 24 hours - the narrative moved on from "this is awful because some Islamic nutter has just murdered someone" to "this is awful because it might strengthen the argument of the far right." But then it feels like for 30 years the far right has been seen as the bogeyman, rather than the people actually doing the rapes and murders. Which attitude has allowed the far right to grow from a bogeyman which barely existed to one which very much does.
This was very much a theme of the Americano podcast I watched (with Douglas Murray) yesterday. This story too - how quickly the story switched to Tommy Robinson and Elon Musk. Another interesting point is that Americans are making such a big deal of this story because as an outsider they're just flat out astonished and appalled by it. We're sort of used to it as a feature of our national life - 'Oh yes, we have these sort of grooming gangs, and it went unreported for ages, and since then there have been some arrests...' - and they're saying WTF.
Musk has said what he’s said. He needs to be held accountable and stopped before the temperature rises too much. He’s already radicalised a few posters here. Something very bad is going to happen, if we are not careful.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
We need to regulate social media, urgently.
No, we don't.
We need a First Amendment.
For that, we first need a codified constitution.
Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998:
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
As I mentioned earlier and had no response to, this will be one of the biggest years for the telecoms industry in decades.
I’m personally very excited to see what the outcome of the merger is. My hope is we will get two very strong networks as a result which can genuinely compete with BT/EE.
I will be watching the spectrum purchases that O2 make from MergeCo with much interest.
To what extent is Trump licencing Musk to launch these attacks?
That's an interesting question for me.
The non-scary answer? He isn't!
Trump can't do much about Musk at all (again, not sure he wants to or agrees with him) until he gets into The White House.
I would imagine he's privately rather annoyed at Musk going for Farage. I don't think Trump would ever sacrifice his own interests for Farage, but I do think he's fond of him.
To what extent is Trump licencing Musk to launch these attacks?
That's an interesting question for me.
To no extent, at a guess. Does Trump have the self restraint to let Musk do all this and not dive in himself? He's not known for his abilities at delegation.
Trump is not licencing these attacks. That seems ridiculous even for him.
It’s Trump. Who knows. He clearly loathes Starmer and most of the Labour Party has said terrible things about Trump - and of course Labour made the SUPERB decision to pay for their activists to go and campaign for Kamala to try and make sure Trump lost. Fucking idiots
I find it quite believeable that Musk has said “I’m going after that wanker of a British prime minister” and Trump has chuckled and said “do it”
Why has @Shecorns88 been banned? As far as I can see we never found out they were a staffer for Labour.
The decision is for the moderator and not you to demand reasons
The owners of this site are facing serious issues with the online safety bill and I expect much stricter policing by them as the very existence of the site could be at risk
We must support @TSE and the moderators at all times, especially going forward
Comments
Reform is NOT a Political Party.
It is a Limited Company.
Farage is by far the biggest Shareholder.
If he decides to cut and run, he cuts and runs
Everybody who has invested 10 quid might need to grasp this fact.
She my post at 6.06pm.
I compel anyone to read the publicly available judgment on the libel case. It was quite clear his “witnesses” were lying through their teeth in what they said about the boy who allegedly attacked them.
However, Liverpool are 6 points ahead and have a game in hand
Not only that, in Salah they have the best player in the league and will win it
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/keir-starmer-to-defend-grooming-gangs-record-amid-elon-musk-complicity-claims-3jc6kmsnf
He is clearly what you say and I don’t get why anyone would follow him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Lowe
(Should we expect people in public service to resign when something happens on their watch even when they weren't personally responsible or not? We do with Cabinet ministers...)
This is supposedly an interview from 2002. Can anyone confirm the date?
https://x.com/okaybiology/status/1875885470502240544
As I said yesterday, the first I heard of this issue was the infamous Nick Griffin Question Time show in 2009. It’s an indictment on journalists that no-one dared stand up and say that actually he had a point, or even start investigating the issue in detail, even though thousands of people would have been aware of the problem at the time.
A Nimrod surveillance plane crashed in Afghanistan, due to an onboard fire.
The Haddon-Cave report - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nimrod-review led to changes.
One of them was to the legal chain of responsibility for the airworthiness of aircraft in U.K. military service.
Sometime later a rather bizarre attempt was made to update Nimrod airframes to use them as sub hunters. The disastrous project produced an aircraft that was judged in-airworthy. And not plausibly fixable, by the experts.
The civil servants and high RAF officials (sometimes referred to as Their Airships), tried the traditional work around. To order the officer responsible to issue an airworthiness certificate. To refuse such an order would be a court martial offence.
However, the lawyers pointed out that unlike former times, those who issued the order would be legally liable. Instead of the buck stopping with the chap signing the airworthiness documents, the civil servants etc would be liable as well.
Upset, they resorted to trying to get the minister to issue the order. He refused.
So the Nimrods were scrapped.
This episode shows, to me, the advantage of making liability a chain.
In banking, SOX caused similar ructions. As a manager at ABMARO put it “I could go to prison if the law is broken!!!”
SOX included the concept that you were legally liable unless you had taken detailed, traceable steps to prevent your subordinates committing crimes.
Equally, I personally legally liable, in my current job, to report fraud, money laundering and some other financial crimes. Without tipping off the criminals.
What we need is this, throughout public life.
Meanwhile, American Twitter is re-remembering Jimmy Savile.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875924534605574207
1) acknowledging the full horror
2) describing factually and in detail the history and what has been done, both legally and politically wrt inquiries
3) explain what, if anything, he will do now.
If he doesn't announce a big judge-led inquiry tomorrow, he'd better be sure he won't be pushed into it next week.
She was treated shabbily at the time and some in labour ostracised her.
Guess it depends what Starmer says. If he’s literally just going to defend himself this is, potentially, a major blunder. It will simply associate him even more strongly with an appalling story - exactly what his enemies want
However maybe he’s got something cleverer in mind
Perhaps he’s going to admit all the drones off New Jersey are actually advanced UK tech and he will proceed to drone Elon Musk, then do it live on air as we also see the SAS storming Tennessee and taking Taylor Swift hostage and flying her back to Wick
That WOULD change things
Incredibly, a bunch of lefty wiki editors decided her story was “unimportant” and got it deleted. Because of my article it was reinstated. There is a new article now
So I know personally how the left has been ferociously suppressing this story for DECADES
Free speech is right and proper, not dangerous.
More concerning is the people lining up on here looking for ways to shut him up.
Free speech means nothing if it doesn't extend to those who are saying things you dislike.
The rabbit out of the hat could be that he launches a full public enquiry. That will please most, except his cabinet, who've been doing the media rounds getting pummeled right left and centre defending the decision not to hold one. It is somewhat in his best interests - he can set the remit, select the judge, and presumably when it reports by. He won't be able to do that in a couple of years when he's out of No. 10.
I wonder whatever happened to him?
In any case, an MP died during Brexit. The temperature was too high and dangerous rhetoric was said on both sides. I said so at the time.
But back to the point I actually made, do you support what Musk is saying? He’s literally repeated that Starmer didn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville.
Your problem is, you are so ideologically blinkered you can’t get out of your bubble.
Whether you can win an argument against nutter who both owns a website and thinks that it tells him the truth, that's a different matter.
But you have to try to stand up to bullies, because they never go away. That's true even when it doesn't work.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/could-this-be-the-future-of-farming-inside-europes-biggest-vertical-farm-13283662
Starmer says something: why doesn’t he just stay quiet?
This entire issue has been brought up to damage the government. Musk has put out insane lies and slander against Labour politicians and has put a target on their back. He needs to desist or be blocked. He’s going to get somebody killed.
I would think that a part of that must be a backlash to the sheer extent of his political interference, in various places.
It's fair speech. Now there are reasons why Starmer didn't prosecute Saville but that is fair to debate, not dangerous.
Deciding only an official narrative can be told and everyone else needs to STFU ... that is dangerous.
I
Edge of the City, a documentary on Bradford's social services, has been screened by Channel 4 after being dropped in May after police warned it could inflame racial tensions at local election time.
There's been a lot said about Edge of the City - almost all of it by people who had not actually seen the controversial documentary on Bradford's social services.
More than a year in the making, Edge of the City follows social workers with difficult cases in one inner city.
The most controversial of these witnesses authorities and parents trying to stop groups of young men who are grooming girls as young as 11 for sex.
Although none of the officials in the film raise race as the issue in these predatory relationships, the filmmakers make it perfectly clear that the abusers are predominantly Asian, and all of the abused girls are white.
...
But, how the programme deals with the story of sexual abuse in Keighley and Bradford is more problematic.
Without a doubt, the programme makers, with their remarkable access to social workers, came across a tragic story which needed telling.
A Barnardos expert says "scores" of young men are involved; her local social services colleague says there is a massive hole in what the authorities can do. The filmmakers talk to one girl who has had 100 sexual partners.
But time and time again, the programme leaves questions unanswered.
Very early on in the film, the narrator says Bradford's ethnic mix "traditionally" leaves a city divided. Difference is, of course, noticeable - but does it inevitably create division? Other cities would consider this a glib conclusion.
When the narrator explains that some abused girls are as young as 11, why does the camera stop on a shot of Bradford's main mosque?
And when the narrator says that young Pakistani drugs gangs are beyond the control of "community elders", are we being told this entire community should be considered guilty of neglect?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/3602854.stm
For free speech?
If you don't like what someone has to say, win the battle of ideas. Blocking them is the dangerous, dictatorial path.
The fact you can’t see how dangerous this stuff is, is worrying.
People with the power to do something looking the other way when first told about problems or an embarrassing issue is the sine qua non of every scandal.
The fact this man can own a social media platform and do this entirely unchecked is really very concerning for anyone that should care about upholding democracy.
We need to regulate social media, urgently.
Your opponents have the right to criticise you.
People with a vendetta against you have a right to speak.
It doesn't make what they're saying right, but they have the right to say it. There's nothing dangerous in that.
Going down the path of censorship, that is dangerous.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crln82d1w78o
It’s the pyramid of civil service, social services, contractors etc etc who make up the permanent system of government.
And the private sector as well - if you exclude on area from such liability, liability will be transferred.
Quangos have their uses for “insulating” - a term used in understanding fraud/money laundering structures - but I think we can apply it to legal and moral liability.
We need a First Amendment.
The fact is CPS did not see much of the evidence when they did he acted.
If course this doesn't suit right wing bone heads who suddenly jump on a 14 years old bandwagon that the Tories repeatedly kicked in to the long grass.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/heartbreak-of-mps-lone-battle-to-tackle-sex-abuse-in-bradford-1786145
It’s not just Salah who won’t be at the club next season, Arnold, who has turned down millions having not signed a new contract, proving he made his mind up to leave ages ago, didn’t turn up today.
It’s not just this game Liverpool looked jaded and their press was poor, their performances have been slipping this direction throughout December, meaning they don’t look as strong defensively. The extra gruelling Champions League programme could be taking its toll - it was incredible the Everton away game cancelled and only one blank week was available in next few months. Tiredness equals not just dropped points but injuries too - have you noticed an outbreak of hamstring strains and tears occurring over the last week or so.
And the fixture list was so kind to Liverpool up until Christmas, but is far steeper test from here on in. How will they bounce back or react mentally if they take just 2 points from 12 and are back in the chasing pack? We can’t possibly know, especially as so many of these players haven’t won anything recently, unlike Man City.
comparing the fixtures, I think Man City will win the title in May, or if not, will come very very close to denying Liverpool.
That's an interesting question for me.
https://bsky.app/profile/tombaldwin66.bsky.social/post/3lez5fjc7xc27
TLDR: Adversarial justice works pretty badly in rape cases. You don't need the racial stuff to explain what had been (and probably still is) going wrong.
Sometimes, we really are all guilty.
But then it feels like for 30 years the far right has been seen as the bogeyman, rather than the people actually doing the rapes and murders. Which attitude has allowed the far right to grow from a bogeyman which barely existed to one which very much does.
Want to blame a person actually responsible for ignoring the issue.. Braverman and Sunak.
Before them fecking Boris with his not spaffing up 60 million quote
If course once again this does not suit the low IQ bone head brigade.
The only realistic (sorry Forest!) challenger for the title is Arsenal and the first half fixture between Liverpool and Arsenal was played at the Emirates. The second half of the season fixture is due at Anfield.
So Liverpool have 6 points, a game in hand, and the second half fixture between them and their challenger is being played at home.
It would be just the same if he were attacking Kemi Badenoch, or even Nigel Farage.
It’s not just that he lies endlessly, it’s that because of Twitter he will brainwash people and convince them it’s true even when it’s patently not. Just look at the comments under any Starmer Tweet to see what’s happening. It’s a sewer.
Grim reading, to say the least. I really had no idea quite how grave this issue was (or is).
Its free speech.
Do we really need another one?
And people lap it up. All because he hates Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party.
He will celebrate somebody getting attacked.
Lasted longer than I expected.
“Imagine how bad it would be if ISIS set off a nuclear bomb that killed 50 million Americans. I mean - just think of the backlash against innocent Muslims”
More interestingly, he had a single 'Germany' album, having lived there in the 70s, with stamps going back to the 1870s, including a 1941 page with 7 stamps with yer actual Hitler on.
It was only when some men did so that people paid attention.
There's a lesson for us all right there.
I'm sure he really doesn't want to be involved with DOGE as it will almost certainly prove a fiasco.
I suspect the guy is quite ambivalent about Trump, but having fun. Ultimately it's transactional.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/why-do-americans-care-about-tommy-robinson/
Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.
Accusation appeared defamatory and he has been litigious in the past.
TSE and RCS, as well as OGH, could end up in a lot of trouble you know, so they need to be wary.
I’m personally very excited to see what the outcome of the merger is. My hope is we will get two very strong networks as a result which can genuinely compete with BT/EE.
I will be watching the spectrum purchases that O2 make from MergeCo with much interest.
They provided a different perspective which I found quite interesting in the end, after they were able to prove they weren’t Leon.
I hope they may be allowed back under another guise, with no libellous statements made.
I would imagine he's privately rather annoyed at Musk going for Farage. I don't think Trump would ever sacrifice his own interests for Farage, but I do think he's fond of him.
I find it quite believeable that Musk has said “I’m going after that wanker of a British prime minister” and Trump has chuckled and said “do it”
The owners of this site are facing serious issues with the online safety bill and I expect much stricter policing by them as the very existence of the site could be at risk
We must support @TSE and the moderators at all times, especially going forward