When will the 32 counties reunite? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Banknotes? Just go cashless and choose your preferred design on your phone app....DecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule1 -
Can you clarify this? What is a non waspi? Is this a poll of waspi women vs every other woman? Or everybody (including men)?Pulpstar said:Martin Lewis Facebook straw poll:
5700 Waspi pay out
98 Waspi Don't pay
5300 Non waspi pay out
719 Non waspi don't pay.1 -
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production0 -
Man cannot live by whiskey alone.HYUFD said:
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production0 -
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule0 -
Rachel Reeves is fighting to put more money in your pocket.
https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1869284655188582622
Families are still struggling with the cost of living and I’m fighting to put more money in the pockets of working people.
That’s why we protected their payslips with no rise in their national insurance, income tax or VAT, boosted the national living wage and froze fuel duty.1 -
Exactly. PHSO acknowledged all that the govts had done from 1995 onwards, also that the change in age of the state pension was correct and that there was no legal responsibility to let people know.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
PHSO just caved to a vocal and well funded lobby2 -
Terrorists in Antrim should be treated no differently to terrorists in Gaza, Iran or Russia.HYUFD said:
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production0 -
Is not West Belfast part of County Antrim?HYUFD said:
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production0 -
That's an even less happy parallel...HYUFD said:
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule0 -
[Sunil putting on his best NI accent]
The Brits partitioned my country too, you know!
[Suddenly, he cries out in pain, clutching his head as his Tebbit Chips kicks in!]
Aaaaaaarrrgh!
[before a more servile expression crosses his face]
Must be loyal to Blighty... must be loyal...
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Good morning
Just put on the news and photographs of Starmer, Reeves, Kendall, Rayner, and Cooper all holding plaques supporting the Waspi women, who are gathered alongside, just shouts hypocrisy on stilts
The decision not to pay is absolutely justified, but this is yet another example of misleading the public
It seems they have alienated pensioners, farmers, businesses and now the Waspi women and you wonder who is going to be stung next
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I'm not sure we actually want them flattened by Israeli missiles or blown up with dodgy scooters. That wouldn't be a great advert for NI.Fairliered said:
Terrorists in Antrim should be treated no differently to terrorists in Gaza, Iran or Russia.HYUFD said:
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production2 -
We are so lucky to have her as our Chancellor.williamglenn said:Rachel Reeves is fighting to put more money in your pocket.
https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1869284655188582622
Families are still struggling with the cost of living and I’m fighting to put more money in the pockets of working people.
That’s why we protected their payslips with no rise in their national insurance, income tax or VAT, boosted the national living wage and froze fuel duty.0 -
'The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.
The UK inflation rate rose to 2.6% in the year to November, according to official figures.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmndllpz9o0 -
New Guinea!Casino_Royale said:
Whilst geographically neat there's no particular reason that a single island needs to have a single polity, and lots of places don't.
Borneo!
Hispaniola!
St Martin!
Cyprus!0 -
Mexicanpete said:
You know the Labour Government are getting a policy badly wrong when they have the backing of that unique cohort known as PB Tories.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.
It's wonderful at this season of goodwill that men of PB, not normally sympathetic to the Left (sic) backsliding on pre-election promises, are just fine with it when said backsliding fits in with their very fixed views.3 -
Maybe Starmer should announce Greg Wallace as the new minister for pensions.0
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On Antrim, it's worth saying that there have been six recall petitions so far and the only one to fail was that held in North Antrim. I think this is a fair indication that it is likely to be one of the strongest redoubts for Unionism, even if I don't think that will extend to UDI.1
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Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
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Stop typing and think about the practicalities. Which countries would support an independent Antrim? How would they access the banking system? Without banking, how would they trade? There will be no UDI because the people of Antrim are not stupid. There will be no provocation because the government of Ireland is not stupid.HYUFD said:
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule1 -
The British government can relive the glory days of the Beira Patrol. Four ships intercepted in 10 years on station.ydoethur said:
That's an even less happy parallel...HYUFD said:
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule0 -
Ah but Christmas dinner is cheaper.HYUFD said:'The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.
The UK inflation rate rose to 2.6% in the year to November, according to official figures.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmndllpz9o
Turkey and sprouts drive down cost of Christmas dinner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv3y61qq41o
No Yorkshires and WTF icing-topped mince pies?
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I remember we had this conversation a few months ago here, about islands with borders. There were a few others as I recall.Sunil_Prasannan said:
New Guinea!Casino_Royale said:
Whilst geographically neat there's no particular reason that a single island needs to have a single polity, and lots of places don't.
Borneo!
Hispaniola!
St Martin!
Cyprus!
Timor Leste is another. I suppose you could add Cuba if you include Guantanamo Bay. Sri Lanka got close to dividing too.0 -
On the Yorkshires point: definitely not with foul. I do commit the heresy of making them with Lamb because the family like them, but otherwise it's:DecrepiterJohnL said:
Ah but Christmas dinner is cheaper.HYUFD said:'The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.
The UK inflation rate rose to 2.6% in the year to November, according to official figures.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmndllpz9o
Turkey and sprouts drive down cost of Christmas dinner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv3y61qq41o
No Yorkshires and WTF icing-topped mince pies?
- Beef: Yorkshire puddings
- Lamb: Yorkshires, onion sauce
- Pork: crackling, stuffing
- Chicken & other birds: bread sauce, stuffing
Our Christmas lunch will be in France again this year which means a big capon that comes with its head and feet still on and makes for some fun puppetry action before being dressed for the oven.0 -
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.0 -
It is sometimes treated as an inevitability the Ireland will be united, sometimes explicitly on the basis it's an island and therefore makes sense, which is a bit strange when there are many divided islands in the world.
That said i do think it will happen, but not this side of 2030. My gut feeling is that its widely supported but that support is prepared to wait.0 -
Labour are lucky they're facing favourable opposition. I can't see the Tories regrouping for at least the next ten years and I don't think Farages mob can be considered contendersTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.1 -
Fair. However he shouldn't have posed with them previously, implying that he backed their cause. His policy is right; his flip-flop or hypocrisy (depending on whether he intended to U-turn or not when he was previously on board), is not.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.7 -
On topic... The answer to the question
The sooner Ireland is unified politically, economically and culturally the better.
If anyone in the 6 Provinces doesn't accept that, and they are entitled to their alliegence to The Crown, then they have 2 choices
(a) remain in a united Ireland in the EU
(b) come to the UK and bring their skills and loyalty to the Crown here.
Economically the cost of integration would be more than offset by the cost of us not having to fund NI and the added growth and skills in key areas like NHS, Teaching, key trades etc0 -
I think that's right but the risk for labour is squeeze on the right and squeeze on the left and the Lib Dems, although opportunistic, are not doing much wrong and the Greens appeal to the corbynites.Roger said:
Labour are lucky they're facing favourable opposition. I can't see the Tories regrouping for at least the next ten years and I don't think Farages mob can be considered contendersTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.0 -
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
1 -
Agree - feels unlikely to me. Older voters won't change their mind on reunification. And younger voters may look at it more hard-headedly and think... do I really want to lose the NHS/UK subsidies?
The Republic IMO would not benefit much either. You inherit a poorer region where even in the best case scenario a substantial minority don't want to be part of your country.0 -
The way the WASPI story gets reported is still very odd to me. Talk of being 'hit' by pension changes alongside a lot of uncritical acceptance of their own presentation of grievance has always given the impression to me that the narrative they have been wronged is rarely challenged. Whether someone does support their campaign or not there has always been an alternative position, but its been rarely emphasised.
This being the 2000s i expect many more legal legal challenges, sonehow.1 -
Oh I dunno, will give it a damn good go next week. Perhaps whisky and turkey.Carnyx said:
Man cannot live by whiskey alone.HYUFD said:
Less of a disaster than the terrorism from a revived UVF etc which would likely occur if a county Antrim which voted strongly No to reunification was forced into Dublin rule because the 6 counties of NI voted narrowly Yes.Dura_Ace said:Co. Antrim on its own would be an existence exactly as depicted in Cormac McCarthy's 'The Road'. The only reason the 6 Counties were occupied was that 4 was judged to be economically nonviable. A single county, and that county being Antrim which is largely populated by permanently livid, puce faced drum bashers, would be a disaster.
Antrim is also still distinctly Protestant and hardline evangelical Presbyterian unlike Roman Catholic majority Republic of Ireland and has like Bushmills several strong areas of economic production1 -
The cynically opportunist Lib Dems happily support them without ever saying where this money would come from.TimS said:
Or Kendall could release a video saying that the WASPI protesters are all middle class women of a certain age. Which would be objectively true.Pulpstar said:Maybe Starmer should announce Greg Wallace as the new minister for pensions.
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Just experienced what must be the second worst aural experience. Have just been subjected to Vernon Kay wittering away for five minutes where every time he stopped spouting bollocks the volume of the background music bounced up then down again between sentences etc.
Firstly when is the village that Vernon is idiot of going to claim him back as they must be missing him.
Second, what’s this bullshit about having to have music constantly playing loudly if no speech at that moment - are people most able to handle pauses anymore?
Finally, if you have just been playing the intro to the next song on loop for five minutes in the lead up to the actual song, people might just already be fed up with that song by the time it actually plays in full.
I know we allegedly have politicians reading but please let there also be someone senior in the bbc who can stop this crap and spare anyone else this misfortune if they are subjected to Radio 2 in the future.0 -
When she is properly judged in 3 to 4 years time her medium and long term planning and refusal to adopt populist short term ism, in the face of a far worse situation than anyone anticipated will mean she will be regarded as one of the great Chancellors of any generation.Taz said:
We are so lucky to have her as our Chancellor.williamglenn said:Rachel Reeves is fighting to put more money in your pocket.
https://x.com/rachelreevesmp/status/1869284655188582622
Families are still struggling with the cost of living and I’m fighting to put more money in the pockets of working people.
That’s why we protected their payslips with no rise in their national insurance, income tax or VAT, boosted the national living wage and froze fuel duty.0 -
Spot innumbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.0 -
Norway in September. Big test for Milei with elections in Argentina in October. Albania in May.Foxy said:It's scraping the barrel, but there does appear to be a bit of a fallow year ahead for political bettors. Are there any significant contests coming?
Germany in February, Canada and Oz later in the year.
Big excitement for Liechtenstein on 9 Feb. Could Brigitte Haas become the country’s first female head of government? But there’s voter dissatisfaction with the current grand coalition.1 -
Its been a surprise, and suggests to me either things were worse than expected and he's changed his mind, or he and Labour were more careless in their promises than was widely believed. They could have been much vaguer but there was a clear indication of support from Labour, and some individuals it was very explicit.david_herdson said:
Fair. However he shouldn't have posed with them previously, implying that he backed their cause. His policy is right; his flip-flop or hypocrisy (depending on whether he intended to U-turn or not when he was previously on board), is not.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.1 -
It's a case of Starmer/Labour doing the right thing for policy, but being both utterly crap/inept and hypocritical in the politics of it.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.3 -
Oh, don't be silly. How exactly are they going to do that? Or more realistically, they can declare what they like but how is that going to have effect?HYUFD said:
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule
Ian Smith had the advantage of controlling the government and its machinery in a territory thousands of miles from Britain. The DUP wouldn't control anything beyond Antrim borough council. What are they going to do? Hand out parking notices to the Garda? Put simply: you and whose army? They'd be like the Sovereign Citizen types, wailing into the wind that the state has no authority over them while the state proves the opposite, has the force to compel it, and while everyone else sensible slowly distances themselves from the loony.
But in reality, they'd reconcile themselves. It's not as if the Republic is really a Catholic country these days anyway, and those who really don't like it can always move to Essex or Benidorm or somewhere.0 -
Starmer has probably lost net support this week, and the mood is fairly low so 50/50 stuff gets interpreted poorly, but he's gained at least some respect and support too over the WASPI whingers decision. Well done PM.1
-
Timor! I forgot Timor! (Timor is the island, Timor Leste is the name for the eastern end). Technically, Guantanamo is still under Cuban sovereignty, but make of that what you will.TimS said:
I remember we had this conversation a few months ago here, about islands with borders. There were a few others as I recall.Sunil_Prasannan said:
New Guinea!Casino_Royale said:
Whilst geographically neat there's no particular reason that a single island needs to have a single polity, and lots of places don't.
Borneo!
Hispaniola!
St Martin!
Cyprus!
Timor Leste is another. I suppose you could add Cuba if you include Guantanamo Bay. Sri Lanka got close to dividing too.0 -
I dont have turkey or sprouts on Christmas dinner anyway.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Ah but Christmas dinner is cheaper.HYUFD said:'The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.
The UK inflation rate rose to 2.6% in the year to November, according to official figures.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmndllpz9o
Turkey and sprouts drive down cost of Christmas dinner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv3y61qq41o
No Yorkshires and WTF icing-topped mince pies?0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_divided_islandsalgarkirk said:There won't be a poll for decades, and there won't be a united Ireland until long after that. Which is sad. A glance at a map suggests only three sensible formations for these offshore islands: One state for all the islands (the New Zealand model), 2 states because 2 islands, a single state as an adjunct to a neighbouring state in Europe/part of an EU state.
Naturally in place of that we have a complete mess making no sense at all.
I like the New Zealand model best, but obvs won't happen. 2 states 2 islands is next best. Since Henry VI which the Brexit vote made worse there are difficulties with the Europe/EU model.0 -
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.2 -
That's actual nonsense. The inflation we've seen is because businesses are padding margins in order to get ahead of the £40bn tax rises that are being pushed on them from next year. That's not "good" inflation, in fact it's the very worst kind of inflation because prices are increasing to increase company margin which will do absolutely zero for the real economy.TimS said:Inflation increase news today, and FPT discussions.
I hesitate to say something that could sound mad when quoted, but from a macroeconomic perspective I think there is good inflation and bad inflation. We are in a period of “good inflation” currently.
In 2022-3 the price of - primarily - goods went up because of international commodity price rises, but wages stayed stagnant. That sort of inflation directly hits the bottom line of the economy and household spending power.
In 2024 inflation, such as it is, is happening with a backdrop of stable commodity prices, slightly falling import prices (due to a strong pound) and rising domestic services and wage growth. That means at least some of the inflation going into people’s pockets, which makes their mortgages relatively smaller.
In your desperation to defend a poor decision in July you've contorted yourself into a position of saying inflation is good and tax rises on businesses and wealth creation is good. Maybe it's time to admit you made an error in not supporting the Tories in July so you won't have to take increasingly idiotic positions to support it?2 -
If you are having sauages etc why not, its all 'dinner' food.GIN1138 said:
Ew, who wants Yorkshire pudding for breakfast?Mexicanpete said:...
Available in a Toby Carvery for their breakfast cafeteria service. Bacon, eggs, sausages, beans tinned tomatoes, mushrooms, assorted potato and Yorkshire pudding.MattW said:
I'd say it depends what your dinner is. If it is beef, then you would expect it. Turkey is a modern tradition - bloody Victorians again.GIN1138 said:FPT
I went out with a friend and had a Christmas dinner last night. I was mildly surprised to see a Yorkshire Pudding was included with the meal.MattW said:Pleased to publish @TSE 's next header
YouGov @yougov.co.uk
Are Yorkshire puddings an acceptable part of a Christmas dinner?
Acceptable: 83%
Unacceptable: 9%
https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ldjdoalyhs25
(I'm not sure what has happened to Yougov)
When did Yorkshire pud's start becoming a "thing" within the traditional Christmas dinner?
I'm probably on gammon this year, if I don't find another partridge in the freezer.
It could have been broadened by things such as Toby Carvery Christmas Dinners, where their Yorkshires fill a big chunk of your plate with air rather than something that costs them money.
No wonder the nation is dead on its arse.
That said i dont go for it at Toby's.0 -
May be Boris coukd suggest a new vanity project and get 100000 paddies with a pneumatic drill to drill a Boris trench across the border and geographically split Ireland in to 2 islandsbondegezou said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_divided_islandsalgarkirk said:There won't be a poll for decades, and there won't be a united Ireland until long after that. Which is sad. A glance at a map suggests only three sensible formations for these offshore islands: One state for all the islands (the New Zealand model), 2 states because 2 islands, a single state as an adjunct to a neighbouring state in Europe/part of an EU state.
Naturally in place of that we have a complete mess making no sense at all.
I like the New Zealand model best, but obvs won't happen. 2 states 2 islands is next best. Since Henry VI which the Brexit vote made worse there are difficulties with the Europe/EU model.0 -
Labour are s**t latest.
What a dreadful set of headlines and newspapers for Starmer and his gang of incompetent liars.
Clearly no plan, did they just think their bandwagoning of the Waspi would never come back and haunt them, or did they just not care? They've managed to make people sympathetic to them, despite the obvious lack of cause. Even the Mirror and Guardian go against them.
Inflation at 2.6%, before we even get the joys of the inflation from the budget. Mortgages remaining artificially high.
Yesterday payrolled employees were reported down, unemployment still at 4.3%, before budget issues. Chagos debacle.
What about the rest of the week? On Friday, retail sales and then government borrowing. Last month that was only the small amount of £5.1b over budget and the second highest ever on record. Dread to think what it will be this time. Their imagined black hole will be swallowing this up in a matter of months.
Starmer said yesterday that he wanted to reassure families and business that there will be no more tax rises. No-one believes a word he says (apart from the diehards on here, who are too committed/embarrassed). He's a liar and that is what he will be known for.
On topic...for as long as a large section of Ireland act like lower sixth school pupils, singing stuff like 'Up the Ra', there will never be a united Ireland.1 -
For the record, there was no mention of WASPI women, or compensating them, in Labour's 2024 election manifesto. I'm quite sure there was pressure to include it, but it was resisted. WASPI campaigners will have known that its absence from the manifesto meant their cause was pretty hopeless.
(Of the main parties, only the Lib Dems promised WASPI compensation, in the full knowledge that they'd never have to find the money).2 -
Politicians should be allowed to change their minds, and parties should be bound by their current manifesto not their previous one. In addition the public finances have clearly deteriorated since 2017...david_herdson said:
Fair. However he shouldn't have posed with them previously, implying that he backed their cause. His policy is right; his flip-flop or hypocrisy (depending on whether he intended to U-turn or not when he was previously on board), is not.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.
1 -
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.1 -
Isnt Ireland meant to be a lot richer than the UK thesedays? On paper at the very least? Presumably that might help shift attitudes in time too.0
-
Is the PB nightmare breakfast Yorkshire pudding *and* sandwiches?1
-
His stock is so low I guess he figures he might as well get the stuff that's going to go down like Greg Wallace being invited to cook christmas dinner at the Women's Institute out the way now.kle4 said:Starmer has probably lost net support this week, and the mood is fairly low so 50/50 stuff gets interpreted poorly, but he's gained at least some respect and support too over the WASPI whingers decision. Well done PM.
2 -
This about sums up the position .. initially. As has been mentioned earlier when the economics change, hearts and minds will follow. Plenty of current examples of people having the choice between the EU and Russia and making rational economic decisions.Casino_Royale said:
Which begs the question if the Irish Republic really want to take its economic and political problems on board.Pulpstar said:One thing Irish unification would do would be to 100% boost growth in the rest of the UK - EU matters would be vastly simplified and Northern Ireland is a net drain to the overall UK economy.
It's not like reunifying East and West Germany, which was carved up by power politics; the divisions come from the grassroots.
0 -
The key problem with abiding by the ombudsman decision would be the cost of 10bn but then the majority then bleating for Full recompense and never being satisfiedkle4 said:
Its been a surprise, and suggests to me either things were worse than expected and he's changed his mind, or he and Labour were more careless in their promises than was widely believed. They could have been much vaguer but there was a clear indication of support from Labour, and some individuals it was very explicit.david_herdson said:
Fair. However he shouldn't have posed with them previously, implying that he backed their cause. His policy is right; his flip-flop or hypocrisy (depending on whether he intended to U-turn or not when he was previously on board), is not.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.
Zero to piss them off
Ten billion to piss 90% of them off
No doubt he's made the right decision2 -
Dura_Ace said:
The British government can relive the glory days of the Beira Patrol. Four ships intercepted in 10 years on station.ydoethur said:
That's an even less happy parallel...HYUFD said:
Ian Smith did in Rhodesia and he didn't even have the majority of the population behind him just the white minority and Antrim's DUP and TUV leaders would have their population with them if they declared UDIDecrepiterJohnL said:
No-one will declare UDI. Think about the practicalities for a minute. More likely is that any future unification will maintain the current, post-GFA Heisenberg border arrangements where people can call themselves whatever they like but the banknotes will change.HYUFD said:For a border poll to take place SF would not only need to win most Northern Irish MPs but also a majority at Stormont with the SDLP and they are a long way away from both. Sinn Fein have also even failed to win most seats south of the border in the Irish Republic's recent general election.
Though as I have said before I doubt all 32 counties would reunite even if a border poll was held and yes to Irish reunification won. For county Antrim would almost certainly vote No and being DUP, UUP and TUV dominated would likely declare UDI in such an event rather than come under Dublin rule
Was in Belfast yesterday where we have an office. I cannot see a poll before 2030 or even 2040. Sinn Fein popularity seems to have peaked and their stance on immigrants and Gaza has alienated many. The Irish economy is an enigma. The country should be awash in money but many areas are going backwards. Ireland has a group of very rich men on both sides of the border who have a massive influence on the country. Cannot see them wanting to upset the apple cart. If you ever drive between Belfast and Dublin the only sign that you cross the border is that you lose your mobile service for a minute. What will reunification achieve?
Most Brits I hear talk about Ireland have so little idea about how the country really works. They tend to be closet colonialists who still think they can get attention by being anti empire. They sound so dated.
4 -
A "double lock" which is the highest out of CPI inflation or 2% makes the most sense. Remove the earnings link because that really does make the state pension a ponzi scheme. There will need to be 7-10 years of earnings growth higher than CPI or 2% for the state pension bill to start dropping as a proportion of GDP but I think it's a fair compromise.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.2 -
I voted Labour in 2024 and back the decision though.Mexicanpete said:
You know the Labour Government are getting a policy badly wrong when they have the backing of that unique cohort known as PB Tories.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.
But overall i expect it is politically the wrong choice, despite being very sound.
I hope they hold firm.0 -
I don’t think 2029 will be won or lost on WASPI, nor on frockgate.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.0 -
The triple lock should move to the middle of the three components, rather than the highest.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.1 -
That's actual nonsense.MaxPB said:
That's actual nonsense. The inflation we've seen is because businesses are padding margins in order to get ahead of the £40bn tax rises that are being pushed on them from next year. That's not "good" inflation, in fact it's the very worst kind of inflation because prices are increasing to increase company margin which will do absolutely zero for the real economy.TimS said:Inflation increase news today, and FPT discussions.
I hesitate to say something that could sound mad when quoted, but from a macroeconomic perspective I think there is good inflation and bad inflation. We are in a period of “good inflation” currently.
In 2022-3 the price of - primarily - goods went up because of international commodity price rises, but wages stayed stagnant. That sort of inflation directly hits the bottom line of the economy and household spending power.
In 2024 inflation, such as it is, is happening with a backdrop of stable commodity prices, slightly falling import prices (due to a strong pound) and rising domestic services and wage growth. That means at least some of the inflation going into people’s pockets, which makes their mortgages relatively smaller.
In your desperation to defend a poor decision in July you've contorted yourself into a position of saying inflation is good and tax rises on businesses and wealth creation is good. Maybe it's time to admit you made an error in not supporting the Tories in July so you won't have to take increasingly idiotic positions to support it?
Average weekly earnings for all employees in Great Britain increased by 5.2% to Oct 2024
In the context of 2.6% inflation, that is good, despite your dribble.1 -
I don’t think the country has particularly reconciled itself yet to the idea that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. In a lot of ways I blame the lack of critical interrogation of the massive government spending that accompanied furlough and the energy payments, both of which were breathlessly waved through by the media. I think these more than anything have given the impression that if the government can find that sort of money, it can throw it at any problem to fix it. Issues like the WFA and WASPI are just symptoms of the same problem.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.3 -
You absolute bloody hypocrite.Shecorns88 said:
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.
A week or so ago you were saying they deserved money. Now you have reversed simply as Labour have made the policy clear whereas the rest of us have had a consistent position.
A week ago "the anger is fully justified", "halve the overseas aid budget to fund the WASPI women"
What a bloody hypocrite.2 -
Quite heavily reliant on foreign direct investment generated by low tax - particularly from US. Election of Trump not good news. And, of course, unlike with Uncle Joe there is no sentimental attachment to the emerald isle.kle4 said:Isnt Ireland meant to be a lot richer than the UK thesedays? On paper at the very least? Presumably that might help shift attitudes in time too.
0 -
There was an outside chance the Lib Dems needed to prop Starmer up, so it wasn't entirely theoretical.Northern_Al said:For the record, there was no mention of WASPI women, or compensating them, in Labour's 2024 election manifesto. I'm quite sure there was pressure to include it, but it was resisted. WASPI campaigners will have known that its absence from the manifesto meant their cause was pretty hopeless.
(Of the main parties, only the Lib Dems promised WASPI compensation, in the full knowledge that they'd never have to find the money).0 -
...and technically not in NI either (it's called something else)HYUFD said:
There is no NHS in the Republic of course...LostPassword said:
At the moment local politicians organise buses to take patients waiting for cataract surgery from Munster to Belfast. I'd suggest that one potential trigger for Irish Unity will be when patients on waiting lists in Northern Ireland start travelling into the Republic for treatment.numbertwelve said:On topic, it will happen, eventually. But it’s hard to see it happening imminently, IMHO. Certainly not without a lot of problems. I’d put another 25-30 years as the earliest.
Given the re-election of the FF/FG government in the Republic, I would not expect that to happen for a good while yet.
Unionists would be well advised to keep the health service in Northern Ireland working.
1 -
Nobody brought up the Star Trek:TNG episode in which a specific year is mentioned? Oh, how we neglect the classics... 1
-
My personal view is that;david_herdson said:
The triple lock should move to the middle of the three components, rather than the highest.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.
a) people should have confidence that it keeps up with prices.
b) people should be under no illusion that they should be saving for their retirement as well. I'd make auto enrollment compulsory.2 -
Even Radio 3, yes Radio 3 is going to the dogs.boulay said:Just experienced what must be the second worst aural experience. Have just been subjected to Vernon Kay wittering away for five minutes where every time he stopped spouting bollocks the volume of the background music bounced up then down again between sentences etc.
Firstly when is the village that Vernon is idiot of going to claim him back as they must be missing him.
Second, what’s this bullshit about having to have music constantly playing loudly if no speech at that moment - are people most able to handle pauses anymore?
Finally, if you have just been playing the intro to the next song on loop for five minutes in the lead up to the actual song, people might just already be fed up with that song by the time it actually plays in full.
I know we allegedly have politicians reading but please let there also be someone senior in the bbc who can stop this crap and spare anyone else this misfortune if they are subjected to Radio 2 in the future.
"Mixtapes" are bad enough, but "Mixtapes" with a channel announcement halfway through to remind you that, yes, you are tuned to Radio 3, just in case you'd forgotten? FFS.
0 -
s
That protects reporting to the police and social services.noneoftheabove said:
https://www.capitallaw.co.uk/news/victims-and-prisoners-act-2024-changes-to-non-disclosure-agreements/#:~:text=The Act stipulates that any,who has law enforcement functions.Foxy said:A ban on NDAs in cases of sexual harassment settlements seems to be something that we could usefully copy from Australia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/18/victorian-review-of-ndas-gets-strong-support-for-outright-ban-in-sexual-harassment-cases?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
It should go further - a complete ban on NDAs in this area.
I would suggest that NDAs need to be culled massively, in general. As does that system of gagging orders.0 -
That's not a bad idea but it needs a catchy name. Maybe the triple stabiliser or the fairness formula.david_herdson said:
The triple lock should move to the middle of the three components, rather than the highest.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.1 -
The NHS will, surely, be the challenge to the uniters. That was where Cummings was so smart to tie it into the Brexit referendum, and why the SNP attempted to co-opt it - "NHSYes" - during IndyRef. Unless they have an answer to that I can't see how they could win a border poll.rkrkrk said:Agree - feels unlikely to me. Older voters won't change their mind on reunification. And younger voters may look at it more hard-headedly and think... do I really want to lose the NHS/UK subsidies?
The Republic IMO would not benefit much either. You inherit a poorer region where even in the best case scenario a substantial minority don't want to be part of your country.2 -
And why would they when it becomes less and less attainable and further and further away from them.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.
The triple lock has to go, they should do it now, take the hit and move on.3 -
There is however a further problem in that Slab has been, or is currently, promising the opposite from what their London overlords have been or are saying ...rkrkrk said:
Politicians should be allowed to change their minds, and parties should be bound by their current manifesto not their previous one. In addition the public finances have clearly deteriorated since 2017...david_herdson said:
Fair. However he shouldn't have posed with them previously, implying that he backed their cause. His policy is right; his flip-flop or hypocrisy (depending on whether he intended to U-turn or not when he was previously on board), is not.Morris_Dancer said:I'm not going to criticise Starmer for telling the WASPI types to sod off. He's exactly right.
It's a rare example of equality not being beneficial to women, and provokes shrieks of outrage. My mother's in that age group but has absolutely no sympathy with them.2 -
Tbf those are rates. It's the integral that hits you in the pocket, and there still is a lot of catching up to do after the last few years. And a lot of food price inflation is carefully concealed by the supermarkets and their suppliers (quantity and quality reduction).kenObi said:
That's actual nonsense.MaxPB said:
That's actual nonsense. The inflation we've seen is because businesses are padding margins in order to get ahead of the £40bn tax rises that are being pushed on them from next year. That's not "good" inflation, in fact it's the very worst kind of inflation because prices are increasing to increase company margin which will do absolutely zero for the real economy.TimS said:Inflation increase news today, and FPT discussions.
I hesitate to say something that could sound mad when quoted, but from a macroeconomic perspective I think there is good inflation and bad inflation. We are in a period of “good inflation” currently.
In 2022-3 the price of - primarily - goods went up because of international commodity price rises, but wages stayed stagnant. That sort of inflation directly hits the bottom line of the economy and household spending power.
In 2024 inflation, such as it is, is happening with a backdrop of stable commodity prices, slightly falling import prices (due to a strong pound) and rising domestic services and wage growth. That means at least some of the inflation going into people’s pockets, which makes their mortgages relatively smaller.
In your desperation to defend a poor decision in July you've contorted yourself into a position of saying inflation is good and tax rises on businesses and wealth creation is good. Maybe it's time to admit you made an error in not supporting the Tories in July so you won't have to take increasingly idiotic positions to support it?
Average weekly earnings for all employees in Great Britain increased by 5.2% to Oct 2024
In the context of 2.6% inflation, that is good, despite your dribble.0 -
Sometimes it's adult to admit you got something wrong.Taz said:
You absolute bloody hypocrite.Shecorns88 said:
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.
A week or so ago you were saying they deserved money. Now you have reversed simply as Labour have made the policy clear whereas the rest of us have had a consistent position.
A week ago "the anger is fully justified", "halve the overseas aid budget to fund the WASPI women"
What a bloody hypocrite.
0 -
Did @Shecorns88 really say that a week or so ago?Taz said:
You absolute bloody hypocrite.Shecorns88 said:
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.
A week or so ago you were saying they deserved money. Now you have reversed simply as Labour have made the policy clear whereas the rest of us have had a consistent position.
A week ago "the anger is fully justified", "halve the overseas aid budget to fund the WASPI women"
What a bloody hypocrite.0 -
On topic.
Something that has not been mentioned is that a non-trivial number of NI *Catholics* would vote against reunification. One recent poll put this as 21% against with a further 21% undecided.
This has long been so, and seen in many polls.
The reasons that this is so are varied, and curiously little studied.
1 -
"The NHS" is itself classic Unionist propaganda, as indeed you imply. Different health services in the four home nations. The 'model' may be similar, but it's not a unified service at all. There'd be no splitting if NI left the UK.Burgessian said:
The NHS will, surely, be the challenge to the uniters. That was where Cummings was so smart to tie it into the Brexit referendum, and why the SNP attempted to co-opt it - "NHSYes" - during IndyRef. Unless they have an answer to that I can't see how they could win a border poll.rkrkrk said:Agree - feels unlikely to me. Older voters won't change their mind on reunification. And younger voters may look at it more hard-headedly and think... do I really want to lose the NHS/UK subsidies?
The Republic IMO would not benefit much either. You inherit a poorer region where even in the best case scenario a substantial minority don't want to be part of your country.1 -
Very cynical and deceitful government.Big_G_NorthWales said:Good morning
Just put on the news and photographs of Starmer, Reeves, Kendall, Rayner, and Cooper all holding plaques supporting the Waspi women, who are gathered alongside, just shouts hypocrisy on stilts
The decision not to pay is absolutely justified, but this is yet another example of misleading the public
It seems they have alienated pensioners, farmers, businesses and now the Waspi women and you wonder who is going to be stung next3 -
I could have sword they did but fair enough it does not appear to be the case, despite plenty of individual clear support.Northern_Al said:For the record, there was no mention of WASPI women, or compensating them, in Labour's 2024 election manifesto. I'm quite sure there was pressure to include it, but it was resisted. WASPI campaigners will have known that its absence from the manifesto meant their cause was pretty hopeless.
(Of the main parties, only the Lib Dems promised WASPI compensation, in the full knowledge that they'd never have to find the money).
Does go to show the success of the media operation of the WASPI people, since they get the general media narrative to agree implicitly with the premise that they have been deeply wrong and must be compensated and how could anyone disagree.1 -
Extend it - the quadruple lock. Sounds great, right? Quadruple is better than triple. Government protecting pensions….williamglenn said:
That's not a bad idea but it needs a catchy name. Maybe the triple stabiliser or the fairness formula.david_herdson said:
The triple lock should move to the middle of the three components, rather than the highest.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.
The extra “lock” is to 100% of the income tax allowance. Maximum. So if the income tax allowance doesn’t go up, neither does the pension.3 -
Well, I like toad-in-the-hole but not really for breakfast...kle4 said:
If you are having sauages etc why not, its all 'dinner' food.GIN1138 said:
Ew, who wants Yorkshire pudding for breakfast?Mexicanpete said:...
Available in a Toby Carvery for their breakfast cafeteria service. Bacon, eggs, sausages, beans tinned tomatoes, mushrooms, assorted potato and Yorkshire pudding.MattW said:
I'd say it depends what your dinner is. If it is beef, then you would expect it. Turkey is a modern tradition - bloody Victorians again.GIN1138 said:FPT
I went out with a friend and had a Christmas dinner last night. I was mildly surprised to see a Yorkshire Pudding was included with the meal.MattW said:Pleased to publish @TSE 's next header
YouGov @yougov.co.uk
Are Yorkshire puddings an acceptable part of a Christmas dinner?
Acceptable: 83%
Unacceptable: 9%
https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ldjdoalyhs25
(I'm not sure what has happened to Yougov)
When did Yorkshire pud's start becoming a "thing" within the traditional Christmas dinner?
I'm probably on gammon this year, if I don't find another partridge in the freezer.
It could have been broadened by things such as Toby Carvery Christmas Dinners, where their Yorkshires fill a big chunk of your plate with air rather than something that costs them money.
No wonder the nation is dead on its arse.
That said i dont go for it at Toby's.0 -
U-turning can be a good thing in politics, senior politicians should do it more often as their rhetoric will probably have been wrong more often than not. However, when it happens they will reasonably face tough questions about why, which need good answers, so u-turns are to be cautiously not automatically welcomed.Shecorns88 said:
Sometimes it's adult to admit you got something wrong.Taz said:
You absolute bloody hypocrite.Shecorns88 said:
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.
A week or so ago you were saying they deserved money. Now you have reversed simply as Labour have made the policy clear whereas the rest of us have had a consistent position.
A week ago "the anger is fully justified", "halve the overseas aid budget to fund the WASPI women"
What a bloody hypocrite.
Only robots and childish ideologues never change their minds.1 -
The waspi case is based on the theory that people too ignorant/stupid to notice all the stories and workplace discussions about the rise in pension ages would have understood it if they had received a letter in 1994.kle4 said:The way the WASPI story gets reported is still very odd to me. Talk of being 'hit' by pension changes alongside a lot of uncritical acceptance of their own presentation of grievance has always given the impression to me that the narrative they have been wronged is rarely challenged. Whether someone does support their campaign or not there has always been an alternative position, but its been rarely emphasised.
This being the 2000s i expect many more legal legal challenges, sonehow.
For that matter I don't remember getting any letters explaining that my state pension age is no longer 65 yet I've been aware that it wouldn't be that for decades.1 -
I’m not sure there’s been a flood of such admissions, unless quietly excising previous references to WASPI support counts. Tbf Leicester Liz has left her WASPI backing up on her website which either shows an excess of honesty or want of efficient media management.Shecorns88 said:
Sometimes it's adult to admit you got something wrong.Taz said:
You absolute bloody hypocrite.Shecorns88 said:
Labour did not commit to paying Waspi women in the manifesto nor the budget.numbertwelve said:
Maybe. But the fact they didn’t campaign on that (indeed in certain circumstances suggesting the very opposite) is becoming a problem for them.TimS said:
Labour do have the makings of a consistent policy position, which is to redistribute wealth and income from pensioners to working age people. The trouble is that's undermined by the 1. triple lock and 2. the NI changes.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
Who moaned loudest at both of those times, the Waspi women.
The front page woman on one of the red tops is a teacher who retired at 58 expecting a state pension at 60.
I have to ask the question..
What fucking remote uninhabited jungle had she been teaching in for the previous 10 to 15 years.
People have to take personal responsibility for their actions and mot always seek to blame someone else.
A week or so ago you were saying they deserved money. Now you have reversed simply as Labour have made the policy clear whereas the rest of us have had a consistent position.
A week ago "the anger is fully justified", "halve the overseas aid budget to fund the WASPI women"
What a bloody hypocrite.0 -
About Atrim and NI
Anecdata: Knew Richard Moore in his later years. He was a long time Liberal and stood twice in North Antrim - once against Ian Paisley. He was never convinced the South wanted Ulster and it would be the Republic that set the timing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Moore_(Liberal_politician)
Off topic. Also asked him why his son, Lord Charles Moore, was a Conservative while he committed his life to the Liberal Party. He replied that his son preferred not to lose.1 -
Yes, the last is a bit of a stretch to have with turkey.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Ah but Christmas dinner is cheaper.HYUFD said:'The UK inflation rate has gone up for the second month in a row, rising at the fastest rate since March.
The UK inflation rate rose to 2.6% in the year to November, according to official figures.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgmndllpz9o
Turkey and sprouts drive down cost of Christmas dinner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv3y61qq41o
No Yorkshires and WTF icing-topped mince pies?0 -
I worry about a lot of people I know with limited to no savings who are older than me. My bank will often flash me up messages about how I'm X% towards the savings for a housing deposit in my area, and I'm like 'I have a decent salary and a lot more savings than many people I know, how is anyone buying a house, and what the heck are all the people with less going to do?'.kenObi said:
My personal view is that;david_herdson said:
The triple lock should move to the middle of the three components, rather than the highest.kenObi said:
The Waspi ombudsman report was issued in March.numbertwelve said:
Completely agreed re the WASPI issue. I hope Starmer and co don’t cave to backbenchers on this - apparently there’s a lot of fury on the Labour side about the way this was announced and it being yet another lightning rod for public dissent.turbotubbs said:
Yes and no. I don't think Labour in their wildest dreams would have imagined quite how badly the Tory government would implode and quite how easy their election into power would be. They would be thinking that they needed to be all things to allTaz said:
It will be like the Lib Dems with tuition fees but on steroids. Just naive politics from Labour.numbertwelve said:The WASPI issue is once again showing up the flaws in Starmer’s tactics in opposition (complain about everything, worry about the detail after you win).
On the core topic the government are correct to hold firm.
But of course we now have a situation where all the key players in the government have tweets/photos/statements suggesting they would do something completely different.
I am a broken record on this, I admit, but that 2024 campaign and the period before it will just keep on causing problems for Labour all through this parliament. We exist in a weird political state where voters endorsed Labour (certainly in seat count) but were asked to write a blank cheque and now feel disappointed/taken for granted.menwomen to get a sniff of power. Principles are great, but you cannot do anything in opposition.
I have never thought that the Waspi women had a case. Equality cuts both ways and they had ample warning. No one received a letter on their retirement day telling them "sorry, no pension for 5 more years for you".
It is of course right that you can’t do anything in opposition but I think what is happening to Labour now is starting to show that by the same token you can’t just oppose everything and try to appeal to everyone and then row back once you’ve got your feet under the table. It is very cynical politics and l don’t think they got the balance right.
As usual Sunak & Hunt kicked it into the long grass as they concentrated on salting the earth rather than actually governing.
At least Labour have made the right (and difficult) decision.
If the main parties had any backbone they would address the issue of the triple lock jointly.
The state pension is now just over 30pc of average earnings it is bigger than at any point since 1968, and additionally auto enrolment is now 12 years old (or 7 years for smaller employers).
The triple lock should move to a CPI / RPI only increase from say 2030.
It's unaffordable unless the working population fancy chipping in more tax.
a) people should have confidence that it keeps up with prices.
b) people should be under no illusion that they should be saving for their retirement as well. I'd make auto enrollment compulsory.1 -
I didn't expect to be an MP - what I've learned from taking a Tory's 'safe seat'
NHS surgeon Peter Prinsley won the third safest Conservative seat - and had his life 'turned upside down' as a result
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/didnt-expect-mp-learned-tory-safe-seat-3436297 (£££)
Landslides mean paper candidates get elected.4 -
ShoeZone (sure that's where all PBers get their footwear) have announced that due to the Labour budget, they will now have to close a number of stores as they will become unviable. This will become standard reasoning for businesses to use, truthful or not.
More people who will be told directly by their employers that the reason they are losing their job/not having pay rise, is because of the Labour budget.
Grim.1 -
Well, yes, but "free at the point of use" is surely a uniting principle across the UK which does not extend to the ROI. I doubt very much that many people in any of the four home nations are even aware of the differences, such as they are.Carnyx said:
"The NHS" is itself classic Unionist propaganda, as indeed you imply. Different health services in the four home nations. The 'model' may be similar, but it's not a unified service at all. There'd be no splitting if NI left the UK.Burgessian said:
The NHS will, surely, be the challenge to the uniters. That was where Cummings was so smart to tie it into the Brexit referendum, and why the SNP attempted to co-opt it - "NHSYes" - during IndyRef. Unless they have an answer to that I can't see how they could win a border poll.rkrkrk said:Agree - feels unlikely to me. Older voters won't change their mind on reunification. And younger voters may look at it more hard-headedly and think... do I really want to lose the NHS/UK subsidies?
The Republic IMO would not benefit much either. You inherit a poorer region where even in the best case scenario a substantial minority don't want to be part of your country.
In my own part of Scotland locals are far more aware of contrasts between what NHS Grampian can provide and what is available in the Central Belt.0 -
A classic case of 'always more consultation needed'? See it with NIMBYism all the time, but it has wider applicability. You're never going to get everyone to notice something, or appreciate its significance if you do.another_richard said:
The waspi case is based on the theory that people too ignorant/stupid to notice all the stories and workplace discussions about the rise in pension ages would have understood it if they had received a letter in 1994.kle4 said:The way the WASPI story gets reported is still very odd to me. Talk of being 'hit' by pension changes alongside a lot of uncritical acceptance of their own presentation of grievance has always given the impression to me that the narrative they have been wronged is rarely challenged. Whether someone does support their campaign or not there has always been an alternative position, but its been rarely emphasised.
This being the 2000s i expect many more legal legal challenges, sonehow.
For that matter I don't remember getting any letters explaining that my state pension age is no longer 65 yet I've been aware that it wouldn't be that for decades.
I recall an Alistair Meeks header on the subject which I think laid out all the notification of the change in detail.0
