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Reform isn’t very popular – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • TimS said:

    It seems that West Africa might be splitting into RUNG and Dahomalia:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp31lny4jweo

    Anyone get the reference ?

    I don’t get RUNG, but presumably also a fictional country from pop culture.

    West Africa is getting its act together. Good on them, and good on Senegal for taking a lead. A properly democratic country.

    Though I did have one fascinating conversation with a political journalist there, who was saying there is now a “far right MP” in the Senegalese parliament. He was elected on an anti immigration ticket as they have a lot of migrants from poorer neighbouring Guinea (Conakry and Bissau).
    RUNG = Republican Union of Nigeria and Ghana in John Brunner's 'Stand on Zanzibar'.

    Its basically English speaking West Africa in a cold war with Dahomalia, which is French speaking West Africa.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    ...

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He's on manoeuvres but the disposal of Sir Pillock probably won't be an orderly process, and that can go against the heir apparent (which Streeting is). So I wonder if the value lies with more of a caretaker ship steadier party uniter.

    Who that might be amongst the current parliament I don't know the Labour Party well enough to say. Nandy?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Has he? In what respect?
  • Gonna miss being a local cllr. I do good work. My residents know who I am, what I do, and why they want me to be in there doing it.

    County Council, no one has a clue who they are and why they are so shit.

    Seems to me Labour plan to centralise power, reduce representation, lower expectations, all while lying about their motives.


    On the upside, I’ll get my life back.

    It depends on what you see the role of the councillor as being. It also depends on the efficiency and effectiveness of the council itself. No doubt there are some very good ones but economies of scale is a reality (but only to a point: public organisations that are too big have a tendency to lose contact with the public - it's no coincidence that some of the worst attitudes in police forces are found in the largest ones).

    But 15-20k voters per ward is not unusual in unitaries of various different stripes and there are plenty of good, well-known councillors in them. I represented over 12k voters (about 15k residents) myself in a 3-member ward when I was on Bradford council. It's doable. And frankly, there was quite a lot of duplication in that: we could have done it almost as well with two members.
    Do wards get better service from their councillors when they're all from one party or when its a split ward ?

    I can imagine in a marginal ward councillors are more active in order to gain votes but the duplication factor must be even greater.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Abolishing local government would be a better solution.

    Or at least abolishing their role in planning.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888

    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    I have been summoned.

    Further north the better is the general rule. Skye takes a very long time to get to, and is very big itself so will you'll only have one decent day there. Eg Sleat and Elgol are stunning but an hour's drive from the main tourist spots on the island.

    I'd stick to the fast roads around Ullapool. walkhighlands is the website of choice, with wanders around Loch Clair or Stac Pollaidh available. Bear in mind there are very few hours of daylight - 6am alarms required to maximise.
    Thanks. I shall urge the mainland.
    I hesitate to disagree with @Eabhal but the side roads near Ullapool are better than the main drag, not least because of Sassenach off-roaders trying to beat their mates on the North Coast 500. Try a detour to the Summer Isles Hotel; it used to be run by Robert Irving (father of Lucy, of Castaway fame) and is no longer as idiosyncratic as it was in his day, but well worth a night or two. Some of the Assynt Hills are gentle enough for a February ramble and the cliffs on the peninsula at Coigach are always spectacular if you don't mind skuas. The coast road north to Lochinver is a nice drive (watch out for deer at dusk) although Achins Bookshop at Inverkirkaig seems to have bitten the heather. Take a tour and buy some pots at Highland Stoneware in Lochinver: they will last forever.
    Don't be taken in by the popular pie shop (assuming it's open in the off season). I went, and maybe my Yorkshire roots make my standards too high, but I found it decidedly overrated. Didn't try the Butcher's but wish I had. Agree on the stoneware though, we have two pieces and they're excellent.

    May I also suggest anywhere around Applecross. Beautiful scenery and coral beaches. Though might be a bit hairy in winter, I went in the height of summer a couple of years ago and it was stunning. On the flip side, no midges in winter!
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920
    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Reform are basically now British Trump party after todays take-over meeting with Musk.

    Will the British, or at least English, decide to copy their American cousins and tear down the whole house?

    I fear they will.

    Starmer has four years to prove normal politics delivers.

    Well, fragmentation of voting blocs combined with FPTP is going to lead to a *lot* of interesting results, and potentially some very nonproportional ones.

    If the Greens make progress at the expense of Labour, and Reform at the expense of everyone, while the LibDems continue to pick up mid-teens vote shares very efficiently, then almost any result is possible.

    Here's my completely unlikely (but entirely possible) prediction: the only viable two party coalition following the 2029 elections will be a Reform-LibDem one. (Which obviously won't happen.)
    The Lib Dems have form for jumping into bed with unusual partners. The draw of Government might be too enticing. Even if five years later they implode-again.
    Once is not "have form".
    There was also 1970.
    Conservative governemtn IIRC. So no , there was not.
    Sorry, brain fade.
    I meant 1974, of course.
    In 1974 Heath tried to hang on to power by offering a place in government to the Liberal leader. His offer was rejected.

    So still only one example, which does not justify the comment "have form".
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774
    Well now, who'd have guessed?

    Mauritius rejects Chagos deal in blow to Starmer
    New prime minister says UK’s proposed handover of the islands ‘would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect’


    The offer to take it off our hands wasn't generous enough
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    We dodged a bullet there in 2015.

    Imagine what it would be like living through his coalition of chaos.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Has he? In what respect?
    He doesn’t have a resonant voice (like Jenrick’s).
  • Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    I don’t see anyone who would do better than Starmer. Maybe you’re right to bet on Streeting but I don’t see him as an election winner.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    geoffw said:

    Well now, who'd have guessed?

    Mauritius rejects Chagos deal in blow to Starmer
    New prime minister says UK’s proposed handover of the islands ‘would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect’


    The offer to take it off our hands wasn't generous enough

    What about asking the actual descendants of those who lived on the Chagos what they want?

    Obviously, asking their opinion would be Neon Fascist Imperialism.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    Why does it matter? Best person for the job is ALL that should count. It’s not as if the recent Tory female leaders have excelled.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    Conservatives win huge by-election victory in Canada from the governing Liberals. 27% swing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverdale—Langley_City#Election_results
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950
    Eabhal said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    I am embarrassed to say I've never been to any of those places!

    I think of those I'd choose the Skye ones - Skye looks stunning.

    Ullapool also qualifies as beautiful, wild and remote.

    The Black Isle (actually a peninsula) is also great. Nice towns like Cromarty and Fortrose, and a bit closer to Inverness.
    Agreed re the Black Isle - Rosemarkie is also good, and a scenic spithead there too. Some good walks and coastal scenery in Cromarty/Eathie/Rosemarkie area. But the Isle is very much a high farming area with forestry and moor on the central hogback. Maybe safer option in winter weather?

    Tourist places to visit do tend to be closed, so DYR.

    Edit: splendid views from Cromarty in particular over the Firth to Ben Wyvis. I can recommend a day out to Strathpeffer and a walk up the vitrified fort of Knockfarril nearby.
    Thanks. I’d not actually considered those areas closer to Inverness. It would save a bit of driving. Or perhaps we can do Cromarty / Black Isle on the Sunday before our flight.

    Yes, hiring a car from Inverness. Surprisingly cheap, unlike the horrendously expensive train.

    I’m intrigued by Assynt. The inselbergs and the seemingly rather Faroese look of the place. But then my one trip to Skye left a big impression, particularly the Cuillins, and that was in summer tourist crowd season.

    My wife likes bleak. The bleaker the better. (No jokes at the back please).
    Bleak = the former military housing on Benbecula. So bad it's actually got, dare I say it, noom. Too far, save for another visit.
    Benbecula was a place I had always wanted to visit.

    What a huge disappointment.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
  • Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,865
    geoffw said:

    Well now, who'd have guessed?

    Mauritius rejects Chagos deal in blow to Starmer
    New prime minister says UK’s proposed handover of the islands ‘would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect’


    The offer to take it off our hands wasn't generous enough

    I have altered the deal. Pray that I do not alter it further.

    We should take our ball and go home.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    Why does it matter? Best person for the job is ALL that should count. It’s not as if the recent Tory female leaders have excelled.
    Indeed. And for the last remaining fans of crass identity politics, Wes would be the first openly gay PM. Not that it matters or should matter.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,028

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    Why does it matter? Best person for the job is ALL that should count. It’s not as if the recent Tory female leaders have excelled.
    It probably matters for Labour who like to be seen as 'progressive'. By their own definition. No matter attending segregated M/F audiences when it temporarily suits them. But still. Keir took the knee. So, you know, progressive.

    You might say they take ethnicity or class for granted in an almost Sesame Street view of the world. Or maybe a more cynical 'Gorgeous George' self-interest.

    In any case, you are clearly wrong and they are clearly right. And virtuous. I almost forgot.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
  • I wonder if Cooper would get Ed Balls back somehow.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
    Andy Burnham. Believes in nothing, has no political viewpoint and changes like a weathervane.

    Why?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited December 17

    I’m surprised you didn’t do a thread on this groundbreaking sociological research:

    https://x.com/jim_blagden/status/1869048209336893835

    image

    That Poodle/Green score just cracks me up.

    And the answer is obviously retriever or labrador - healthy, productive, calm temperament.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    I wonder if Cooper would get Ed Balls back somehow.

    Balls would be superb. Much missed as an MP. But no way he would return to politics and take a £300k/year+ pay cut surely? He has a burgeoning media career, and I just can’t see it happening.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,655

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    Yes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,028
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Yes. Have you read it properly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Isn't that a rather meaningless poll, unless you know the distribution of respondents from different type of councils?
    For example, respondents from cities (the majority?) will probably reply that their council area size is about right. Rural respondents will be more mixed.

    Many know very little about their council areas - people are often surprised to discover they have more than one, notwithstanding what the council tax bill may say. So it is incredibly meaningless.

    What might be interesting is seeing the result of such a poll pre and post a recent unitary, as some people do get momentarily interested, but move on.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    That’s just reminded me of the tweets of his that did the rounds a while ago. They suggest he has character issues.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    I agree. He is too naked in his ambition. He should keep his powder dry for the next contest and aim for the one after.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,260
    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    Nigelb said:

    ClippP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Reform are basically now British Trump party after todays take-over meeting with Musk.

    Will the British, or at least English, decide to copy their American cousins and tear down the whole house?

    I fear they will.

    Starmer has four years to prove normal politics delivers.

    Well, fragmentation of voting blocs combined with FPTP is going to lead to a *lot* of interesting results, and potentially some very nonproportional ones.

    If the Greens make progress at the expense of Labour, and Reform at the expense of everyone, while the LibDems continue to pick up mid-teens vote shares very efficiently, then almost any result is possible.

    Here's my completely unlikely (but entirely possible) prediction: the only viable two party coalition following the 2029 elections will be a Reform-LibDem one. (Which obviously won't happen.)
    The Lib Dems have form for jumping into bed with unusual partners. The draw of Government might be too enticing. Even if five years later they implode-again.
    Once is not "have form".
    There was also 1970.
    Conservative governemtn IIRC. So no , there was not.
    Sorry, brain fade.
    I meant 1974, of course.
    In 1974 Heath tried to hang on to power by offering a place in government to the Liberal leader. His offer was rejected.

    So still only one example, which does not justify the comment "have form".
    It wasn’t quite so simple as that - they were quite possibly prepared to jump into bed - for the right price.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/25/britain-hung-parliament-1974
    … Heath asked Thorpe if the Liberals would join him in a coalition, in return for a cabinet seat for Thorpe and, among other concessions, an official inquiry and free vote in the Commons on electoral reform. Accounts vary as to how Thorpe responded. Thorpe says in his memoirs that he told Heath the Liberals had "grave reservations" about serving under a defeated prime minister and were "hostile" to a coalition. But a recently declassified account by Robert Armstrong, Heath's principal private secretary, the only other person present at the talks, portrays Thorpe as keener: "Mr Thorpe concluded by thanking the prime minister for giving him so much time. He would discuss what had [been] said with his colleagues, and be in touch again as soon as possible." Heath said in his autobiography that there was another sticking point: that Thorpe wanted to be home secretary, and "I had been warned by the secretary of the cabinet that there were matters in Thorpe's private life, as yet undisclosed to the public, which might make this a highly unsuitable position for him to hold."

    Thorpe consulted his colleagues, he and Heath met again, but gradually the prospect of a deal faded. The Liberals wanted more – such as a guarantee of electoral reform – than Heath could offer, and neither party, having just competed for the same voters, sufficiently trusted the other. ..


    There’s also the non-coalition Lib Lab pact.
    But that was more about policy they wanted, rather than the lure of government.
    https://liberalhistory.org.uk/history/joint-statement-on-the-lib-lab-pact-steel-and-callaghan/
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,477
    Talk of Starmer's successor may be fascinating but is, I would gently suggest, rather premature.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,080
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    FPT for @Cookie

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but just to get off my chest:

    Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.

    I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.

    But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.

    I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.

    What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)

    Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.

    Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.

    (That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)

    Tricky stuff :smile: . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
    Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were:
    We'll sing the story of Christmas
    Something special
    O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.]
    Away in a Manger
    The Gift
    Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair].
    That First Christmas
    Ring Out
    Child in a Manger Born

    But yes - Dad dancing exactly.

    I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.

    (Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
    Thanks for posting.

    I've had a look. It's a tricky event to balance because you need easy to participate for all ages, impress parents, let the choir show-off, not annoy anyone TOO much, perhaps even not be so traditional as to be seen to be 'promoting religion' and so on. It can work well or badly, and differently for different people.

    Notes:
    ----------
    Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were:

    We'll sing the story of ChristmasThis is Usonian immediately post-WW2, so vaguely Bing Crosby sort of time.
    Something special Is this CBeebies? It is a programme with a "Hello Hello" song theme.
    O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Not sure on that one. The Home Alone version is everywhere.
    Away in a Manger Known, but it's Usonian late Victorian "Meek and Mild" nonsense, that really really irritates me.
    The Gift Again lots of ones called this.
    Shepherd's Calypso That's here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxRVfxvZjE.
    That First Christmas I like this one
    Ring Out The Bells Ring Out? I have an inkling this may be Ukrainian originally, but they would probably have told you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_of_the_Bells has the main theme you would recognise if it is the correct thing.

    Child in a Manger BornThis is modern, from a British couple called Mark and Helen Johnson, who specialise in music for assemblies, schools, churches etc - since 1989.
    ----------

    It's always interesting what comforts or provokes. I've been across many traditions, and take a 1662 Anglican to a Pentecostal event, or vice versa, or a traditional Gospel Hall Protestant to a charismatic (say hands-up evangelical) do, or vice versa, and it can either be embraced as "different and interesting" or can make someone be very diffident, or even be repelled. Attachments to style run very deep, because the meaning runs very deep for the individuals. If something is not what we expect, it can be challenging.

    It's particularly fun that typically black people clap OFF the beat, and white people clap ON the beat. That can cause chaos for a bit.

    I quite like silence sometimes :smile: .

    COTB featured, of course, in Home Alone.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI0yFJj_vHg

    Probably what gave John Williams the idea for the Harry Potter theme.
    I've never seen Home Alone, nor any complete Harry Potter !
    Thanks for the reply Matt. I'm surprised that some of these appear more venerable than I'd thought. It definitely wasn't Carol of the Bells though - I like that one (though challenging for even a decent choir from a primary school to sing!)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    Voters tend to think their local council does nothing useful, or only does potholes and bin collection, or that it misspends what it gets. I don't like coming across as anti-populist, but whilst there are issues with a top down reorganisation which comes with some arbitrary preset ideas, I don't think we the general public have much useful to contribute on what makes for an effective level of local government administration.

    I doubt Whitehall does either, since Whitehall really doesn't get local government, but there's at least some potentially good ideas in the White paper.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
    Andy Burnham. Believes in nothing, has no political viewpoint and changes like a weathervane.

    A politician, you mean?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,956

    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.

    If your government is betting everything on above trend growth then choosing, that's what it is, to make employment more costly is about as daft an approach as I can think of. It makes no sense to me, even if you want to encourage higher capital expenditure to boost productivity you surely want to do that and keep employment not see investment elminate jobs.

    I've said it before, but I thought Labour would be better and more prepared, they've been really quite poor so far. The CCUS, nationalisation, "wealth fund", and messing around with local government all seem a bit half baked as well.

    Not that this matters, the focus should be on Trump and the problems he's going to cause us all.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Northern Powerhouse backing High Peak merging with Greater Manchester.

    Henri Murison, who is the chief executive of the business-led think tank the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, believes the High Peak should be allowed to join Greater Manchester as part of the shake-up. He said: “The Hope Valley line is a key economic link between Sheffield and Manchester and the communities along it are conclusively part of the northern travel to work area.

    “ Towns like Glossop are as much part of Greater Manchester as Stalybridge or Heaton Chapel. The 90,000 people there use many of the same services, such as in health, making this the right footprint for public service reform as well as transport.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited December 17

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    I have been genuinely surprised. Not that they don't want to touch council tax right now, or make a priority of the bigger issues of local government financing. But that they have done something relating to local government at all in the first year.

    It suggests an unusual level of interest in local government for central government, but unless we are fortunate it is focused on the less useful or impactful stuff - eg imposing strategic mayors on people.

    Not really a surprise politicians think creating a new second tier with well paying jobs for politicians is a greater priority than systemic problems.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,914

    Talk of Starmer's successor may be fascinating but is, I would gently suggest, rather premature.

    Starmer is setting new records for unpopularity of a Prime Minister. It would be strange not to contemplate a successor rather earlier than the majority obtained at the recent election would suggest.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,685

    I wonder if Cooper would get Ed Balls back somehow.

    I had no idea that they had split up.
  • Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Yes. Have you read it properly?
    It clearly shows that High Peak borough council is not looking to join Greater Manchester.

    In fact the only things High Peak's statement references are the East Midlands Combined Authority and Staffordshire Moorlands District.

    Might I suggest you're getting a little over excited with your map drawings and are now unable to differentiate between your wishes and reality ?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,323

    I wonder if Cooper would get Ed Balls back somehow.

    On the contrary, Ed has never been happier. He's more likely to persuade Yvette to jack it in, if only by example.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    Boundary changes have happened for years and will continue to I am sure, I don't think addressing the wider financial issues needs to wait.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,260
    A Virginia man has died after a bear in a tree shot by one of his hunting partners fell on him, state wildlife officials said.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bear-falls-on-hunter-dies-virginia/
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    HYUFD said:

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/1869072581527294201

    EXC with @MrHarryCole

    Starmer will appoint THIRTY new Labour peers on Thursday

    Ex-MPs and the PM’s former right-hand woman Sue Gray are among those set to gain a gong

    Hereditaries out, Labour loyalists in, no surprise on the new peers
    And not a peep from the Labour loyalists on here who were so exercised by voter ID
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
  • kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    Voters tend to think their local council does nothing useful, or only does potholes and bin collection, or that it misspends what it gets. I don't like coming across as anti-populist, but whilst there are issues with a top down reorganisation which comes with some arbitrary preset ideas, I don't think we the general public have much useful to contribute on what makes for an effective level of local government administration.

    I doubt Whitehall does either, since Whitehall really doesn't get local government, but there's at least some potentially good ideas in the White paper.
    We can be pretty sure of a few things:

    1) People will be distrustful of change

    2) Any change will prove harder in reality than predicted

    3) Those who lose out (or just think they have lost out) will blame the government
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Yes. Have you read it properly?
    It clearly shows that High Peak borough council is not looking to join Greater Manchester.

    In fact the only things High Peak's statement references are the East Midlands Combined Authority and Staffordshire Moorlands District.

    Might I suggest you're getting a little over excited with your map drawings and are now unable to differentiate between your wishes and reality ?
    I’m not talking about the borough council. I’m talking about the area. The borough is second tier - it will be abolished. The story is a sketch of mood music from the local MP and Northern Powerhouse. I’ve no idea what will happen but it’s an interesting story.

    (And I haven’t drawn any map of Manchester - you must be confusing me with someone else?)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    They won't want to rock the boat too much though on boundaries, if they are keen to get at least some buy in on their strategic mayoral authority stuff which appears to be the thing they care about the most (presumably as you can easily point to person A as a new mayor, ooh isn't that important, as a change).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    Voters tend to think their local council does nothing useful, or only does potholes and bin collection, or that it misspends what it gets. I don't like coming across as anti-populist, but whilst there are issues with a top down reorganisation which comes with some arbitrary preset ideas, I don't think we the general public have much useful to contribute on what makes for an effective level of local government administration.

    I doubt Whitehall does either, since Whitehall really doesn't get local government, but there's at least some potentially good ideas in the White paper.
    We can be pretty sure of a few things:

    1) People will be distrustful of change

    2) Any change will prove harder in reality than predicted

    3) Those who lose out (or just think they have lost out) will blame the government
    So what? JFDI. Should have been sorted decades ago.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,865
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    Voters tend to think their local council does nothing useful, or only does potholes and bin collection, or that it misspends what it gets. I don't like coming across as anti-populist, but whilst there are issues with a top down reorganisation which comes with some arbitrary preset ideas, I don't think we the general public have much useful to contribute on what makes for an effective level of local government administration.

    I doubt Whitehall does either, since Whitehall really doesn't get local government, but there's at least some potentially good ideas in the White paper.
    Can we start by reforming council tax so it only represents local funding? The average punter thinks it's all potholes and bins when half of it is funding for schools which is mixed in with national funding formulas.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 53
    edited December 17
    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    I am embarrassed to say I've never been to any of those places!

    I think of those I'd choose the Skye ones - Skye looks stunning.

    Ullapool also qualifies as beautiful, wild and remote.

    The Black Isle (actually a peninsula) is also great. Nice towns like Cromarty and Fortrose, and a bit closer to Inverness.
    Agreed re the Black Isle - Rosemarkie is also good, and a scenic spithead there too. Some good walks and coastal scenery in Cromarty/Eathie/Rosemarkie area. But the Isle is very much a high farming area with forestry and moor on the central hogback. Maybe safer option in winter weather?

    Tourist places to visit do tend to be closed, so DYR.

    Edit: splendid views from Cromarty in particular over the Firth to Ben Wyvis. I can recommend a day out to Strathpeffer and a walk up the vitrified fort of Knockfarril nearby.
    Thanks. I’d not actually considered those areas closer to Inverness. It would save a bit of driving. Or perhaps we can do Cromarty / Black Isle on the Sunday before our flight.

    Yes, hiring a car from Inverness. Surprisingly cheap, unlike the horrendously expensive train.

    I’m intrigued by Assynt. The inselbergs and the seemingly rather Faroese look of the place. But then my one trip to Skye left a big impression, particularly the Cuillins, and that was in summer tourist crowd season.

    My wife likes bleak. The bleaker the better. (No jokes at the back please).
    I'd echo much of what Carnyx and Eabhal have said. You can strike lucky with weather in February but generally expect shorter bleak days that far north. I agree I'd avoid Skye at this time, a few of the cafes have closed for the season, also a fair drive, Elgol will be nearly 1 hour from Kyle of Lochalsh.

    Ullapool is a very good shout, as would be the Black Isle area and towns near it, saves a long drive. NC500 should certainly be much quieter through Feb, and I find Sutherland is ideal if you like bleak scenery!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprising just what triggers the anti-woke mob.
    The reaction to this is off the scale.
    https://x.com/CivGame/status/1869082840396149216

    For those of us who can't see the reactions (thought I can guess) - could you give us a summary?
    Civ VII makes Harriet Tubman a feature.
    Which gets a certain class of people very annoyed.

    It's a frickin' game. And not only that, but it's not like you're forced to play Harriet Tubman.

    There are 31 different countries, each will have at least one leader, and for countries like the US, the UK and "Rome" there will be multiple possible leaders. So, for example, you can choose Benjamin Franklin of the US among the options.

    Some people have got very upset that one of the Americans is Harriet Tubman, on the basis she was never President. Weirdly, these people didn't seem to get upset by the fact that Benjamin Franklin was never President.
    I’m upset that Ben Franklin was never President.
    I’ve never been able to take him seriously since I learnt about his air baths on the balcony of his London house

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,260
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    HONDA AND NISSAN TO BEGIN MERGER TALKS AMID EV COMPETITION - NIKKEI
    https://x.com/DeItaone/status/1869065939746177121

    I wonder if the German carmakers will be next.
    I expect they may be a bit later, but there’s already been a fair bit of consolidation in Europe and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot more to come.

    Honda-Nissan merger would probably have meant at least one UK factory closure, but Swindon’s already gone.
    It’s not so obvious what the German makers have to offer each other in the EV space, though; VW’s deals, however questionable, have been with US companies like Quantumscape and Rivian.

    Nissan is at least a major battery manufacturer, even if it’s fallen seriously behind the Chinese.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited December 17
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    They won't want to rock the boat too much though on boundaries, if they are keen to get at least some buy in on their strategic mayoral authority stuff which appears to be the thing they care about the most (presumably as you can easily point to person A as a new mayor, ooh isn't that important, as a change).
    I agree that it will probably end up as a fudge, the history of these things suggests that is what happens. But, they need to grasp the nettle in some areas - I’ve cited some acute cases although there are more.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Talk of Starmer's successor may be fascinating but is, I would gently suggest, rather premature.

    Starmer is setting new records for unpopularity of a Prime Minister. It would be strange not to contemplate a successor rather earlier than the majority obtained at the recent election would suggest.
    He’s going nowhere for now. I doubt he’ll fight the next election, but that’s years away.
  • TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    I agree about the West Bridgford - Nottingham split but that's the way things have developed and I would be loath, as an outsider, to force local people into someone else's 'masterplan'.

    BTW have you got something against Derbyshire - you want to give part of it to 'Greater Nottingham' and part of it to 'Greater Manchester'.

    Does any get given to 'Greater Sheffield' ? Parts of High Peak, Derbyshire Dales and Derbyshire NE are in the Sheffield commuter zone.

    Perhaps the most sensible change in Derbyshire would be to create a 'Greater Chesterfield' unitary out of Chesterfield, Bolsover and Derbyshire NE. In theory that is - I have no idea what the locals would want.

    Likewise should northern Nottinghamshire be annexed into Greater Doncaster together with the Isle of Axholme and maybe Goole ? Pulpstar might support this.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
    Andy Burnham. Believes in nothing, has no political viewpoint and changes like a weathervane.

    Why?
    Are the two reasons I stated not enough? The lack of ministerial and governmental experience of this Government has crippled it. And Starmer has all the human touch of a gimlet.

    Does Burnham really 'believe in nothing'? Is he a worse example of the type than Sir Tuition fees? I haven't paid him any attention since he was in the Labour Government, but he seems to be holding down the Mayor job OK, so that puts him head and shoulders above any current Labour politician.
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    I agree. He is too naked in his ambition. He should keep his powder dry for the next contest and aim for the one after.
    Just finished his autobiography, which is surprisingly good and an easy read. I thought it was ghost written, but apparently not.
  • Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Not the council, the Labour MP.

    And probably making himself pretty unpopular in saying it.
    Read the story.
    I did. Have you ?

    High Peak Borough Council has now issued a statement on the calls for a merger. Council leader Anthony McKeown said: “Whilst we knew the White Paper was coming we didn’t have any detailed idea of its contents around local government reorganisation.

    “We therefore need time to study the proposals and consider what is best for the residents and businesses in the High Peak before making any further comment. As a Council we have fully engaged with devolution so far and we are still in the early days of working with, and being represented on, the East Midlands County Combined Authority. We also have our successful strategic alliance with our neighbours at Staffordshire Moorlands District Council already delivering efficiently and effectively for our respective areas.”

    The M.E.N. understands that the government will write to all two-tier areas, including Derbyshire, in January, asking them to put forward proposals to merge district councils. The first new unitary, or single-tier authorities, are set to be created by April 2027.

    However, the M.E.N. understands that the government does not want to break up areas that already have a devolution deal. This includes Derbyshire which is a member of the East Midlands Combined Authority where voters elected their first mayor in May.

    Yes. Have you read it properly?
    It clearly shows that High Peak borough council is not looking to join Greater Manchester.

    In fact the only things High Peak's statement references are the East Midlands Combined Authority and Staffordshire Moorlands District.

    Might I suggest you're getting a little over excited with your map drawings and are now unable to differentiate between your wishes and reality ?
    I’m not talking about the borough council. I’m talking about the area. The borough is second tier - it will be abolished. The story is a sketch of mood music from the local MP and Northern Powerhouse. I’ve no idea what will happen but it’s an interesting story.

    (And I haven’t drawn any map of Manchester - you must be confusing me with someone else?)
    MPs aren't gauleiters and if we know one thing its that you cannot JFDI.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    I agree about the West Bridgford - Nottingham split but that's the way things have developed and I would be loath, as an outsider, to force local people into someone else's 'masterplan'.

    BTW have you got something against Derbyshire - you want to give part of it to 'Greater Nottingham' and part of it to 'Greater Manchester'.

    Does any get given to 'Greater Sheffield' ? Parts of High Peak, Derbyshire Dales and Derbyshire NE are in the Sheffield commuter zone.

    Perhaps the most sensible change in Derbyshire would be to create a 'Greater Chesterfield' unitary out of Chesterfield, Bolsover and Derbyshire NE. In theory that is - I have no idea what the locals would want.

    Likewise should northern Nottinghamshire be annexed into Greater Doncaster together with the Isle of Axholme and maybe Goole ? Pulpstar might support this.
    No, nothing. High Peak is probably my favourite part of England. Just thought it was an interesting story (it’s a fair point you make about the western bit being in Sheffield’s sphere of influence. They could split it I guess?)
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190
    But on topic. Go,and climb Suilven. Breathtaking
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    What happened to the PB 2nd channel, the one dedicated to car racing?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,323
    Andy_JS said:

    What happened to the PB 2nd channel, the one dedicated to car racing?

    Needs updating:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/
  • carnforth said:

    geoffw said:

    Well now, who'd have guessed?

    Mauritius rejects Chagos deal in blow to Starmer
    New prime minister says UK’s proposed handover of the islands ‘would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect’


    The offer to take it off our hands wasn't generous enough

    I have altered the deal. Pray that I do not alter it further.

    "This deal is getting worse all the time!"
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,323
    SteveS said:

    But on topic. Go,and climb Suilven. Breathtaking

    This is what it looked like 10 years ago. Can't believe it has changed much. Whoever built that drystone wall must have been insane.


  • Andy_JS said:

    What happened to the PB 2nd channel, the one dedicated to car racing?

    Needs updating:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/
    Some good old stuff there.

    For example:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/2009/11/south-west-norfolk-were-going-into.html
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,323

    Andy_JS said:

    What happened to the PB 2nd channel, the one dedicated to car racing?

    Needs updating:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/
    Some good old stuff there.

    For example:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/2009/11/south-west-norfolk-were-going-into.html
    We need less bunkum, more Bunnco.
  • Andy_JS said:

    What happened to the PB 2nd channel, the one dedicated to car racing?

    Needs updating:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/
    Some good old stuff there.

    For example:

    https://politicalbetting.blogspot.com/2009/11/south-west-norfolk-were-going-into.html
    We need less bunkum, more Bunnco.
    Its often interesting to see the names of old PBers.

    Anyone else remember 'My Burning Eyes' - his comments were always worth a read.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
    Andy Burnham. Believes in nothing, has no political viewpoint and changes like a weathervane.

    Why?
    Are the two reasons I stated not enough? The lack of ministerial and governmental experience of this Government has crippled it. And Starmer has all the human touch of a gimlet.

    Does Burnham really 'believe in nothing'? Is he a worse example of the type than Sir Tuition fees? I haven't paid him any attention since he was in the Labour Government, but he seems to be holding down the Mayor job OK, so that puts him head and shoulders above any current Labour politician.
    Burnham's time was in 2015, had Labour elected him leader then not Corbyn Burnham may even have beaten May in 2017.

    Now though Streeting or Rayner are the likely main contenders if Starmer goes, Burnham seems happy running Manchester as its Mayor and is not even an MP now
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,080

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    Manchester City Council controls all of Manchester City Centre. I'm guessing the point you are making is that Salford City Centre isn't controlled by Manchester City Council. Which is true, but doesn't seem to be holding either party back.

    Ditto Newcastle/Gateshead.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprising just what triggers the anti-woke mob.
    The reaction to this is off the scale.
    https://x.com/CivGame/status/1869082840396149216

    For those of us who can't see the reactions (thought I can guess) - could you give us a summary?
    Civ VII makes Harriet Tubman a feature.
    Which gets a certain class of people very annoyed.

    It's a frickin' game. And not only that, but it's not like you're forced to play Harriet Tubman.

    There are 31 different countries, each will have at least one leader, and for countries like the US, the UK and "Rome" there will be multiple possible leaders. So, for example, you can choose Benjamin Franklin of the US among the options.

    Some people have got very upset that one of the Americans is Harriet Tubman, on the basis she was never President. Weirdly, these people didn't seem to get upset by the fact that Benjamin Franklin was never President.
    I’m upset that Ben Franklin was never President.
    At least he made it onto the $100 banknote.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Afternoon all :)

    From this side of the world, the Government’s “plans” for the reform of local Government seem confusing.

    I’m not a fan of Mayors, directly elected or otherwise. Rokhsana Fiaz hasn’t been a successful Mayor in Newham but benefits (or has to date) from the entrenched Labour vote.

    Is there going to be an element of compulsion or will the status quo continue in lieu of anything else?


  • Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Wigan wins SPOTY, Coaches of the Year, and Team of the Year.

    Wigan can be very proud of having a team that consistently beats the Aussies in the world club final
    Funny how Wigan's sporting and SPotY dominance follows the appointment of Lisa Nandy as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. Nandy is MP for Wigan.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,416

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Darn. The Euston Station bookshop has closed. It was only there for about 3 or 4 years AFAIK.

    The one in Waterloo is better.
    Not if your train is from Euston.
    Short hop on the Northern line.
    About 30 mins from top of steps to top of steps, if memory serves. I used to do that frequently. My commute is different now so I haven't been to Euston for some time. I hope it's got better. Waterloo is still pretty good. Victoria is a bit tatty. Kings Cross is great tho crowded. Haven't been to Paddington for quite a while but I remember liking it. Jumpers for goalposts...
  • Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    Surprising just what triggers the anti-woke mob.
    The reaction to this is off the scale.
    https://x.com/CivGame/status/1869082840396149216

    For those of us who can't see the reactions (thought I can guess) - could you give us a summary?
    Civ VII makes Harriet Tubman a feature.
    Which gets a certain class of people very annoyed.

    It's a frickin' game. And not only that, but it's not like you're forced to play Harriet Tubman.

    There are 31 different countries, each will have at least one leader, and for countries like the US, the UK and "Rome" there will be multiple possible leaders. So, for example, you can choose Benjamin Franklin of the US among the options.

    Some people have got very upset that one of the Americans is Harriet Tubman, on the basis she was never President. Weirdly, these people didn't seem to get upset by the fact that Benjamin Franklin was never President.
    I’m upset that Ben Franklin was never President.
    At least he made it onto the $100 banknote.
    Ben Franklin's house has been turned into a museum. That's his London house, handy for Charing Cross.
    https://benjaminfranklinhouse.org/
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Death toll in Vanuatu now 14 and the pictures coming out from Port Vila suggest it will rise.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    edited December 18
    Open consultation
    Raising product standards for space heating
    ...
    The consultation is open to anyone to respond, but we welcome views in particular from:
    • consumers
    • installers
    • manufacturers
    • wider industry
    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/raising-product-standards-for-space-heating

    For those who have discussed the matter on PB, the government is listening (it says here).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,950
    DoctorG said:

    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Question for PB travel experts / scotch experts.

    My wife would like us to take 3 day mini-trip to somewhere remote, wild, coastal and ideally slightly weird in Northern Scotland in February, so she can get some inspiration for her art. We'll probably be going up on the train to Inverness overnight and flying back. The good thing about going in winter is that I assume dodging fellow tourists won't be an issue.

    I've found some suitably wild looking cabin-type holiday lets in 3 places (well 4 if you count the 2 in Skye). If it were you, would you go for:

    1. Sleat Peninsula, Skye
    2. Elgol, Skye
    3. West of Torridon
    4. Culkein, Assynt?

    I am embarrassed to say I've never been to any of those places!

    I think of those I'd choose the Skye ones - Skye looks stunning.

    Ullapool also qualifies as beautiful, wild and remote.

    The Black Isle (actually a peninsula) is also great. Nice towns like Cromarty and Fortrose, and a bit closer to Inverness.
    Agreed re the Black Isle - Rosemarkie is also good, and a scenic spithead there too. Some good walks and coastal scenery in Cromarty/Eathie/Rosemarkie area. But the Isle is very much a high farming area with forestry and moor on the central hogback. Maybe safer option in winter weather?

    Tourist places to visit do tend to be closed, so DYR.

    Edit: splendid views from Cromarty in particular over the Firth to Ben Wyvis. I can recommend a day out to Strathpeffer and a walk up the vitrified fort of Knockfarril nearby.
    Thanks. I’d not actually considered those areas closer to Inverness. It would save a bit of driving. Or perhaps we can do Cromarty / Black Isle on the Sunday before our flight.

    Yes, hiring a car from Inverness. Surprisingly cheap, unlike the horrendously expensive train.

    I’m intrigued by Assynt. The inselbergs and the seemingly rather Faroese look of the place. But then my one trip to Skye left a big impression, particularly the Cuillins, and that was in summer tourist crowd season.

    My wife likes bleak. The bleaker the better. (No jokes at the back please).
    I'd echo much of what Carnyx and Eabhal have said. You can strike lucky with weather in February but generally expect shorter bleak days that far north. I agree I'd avoid Skye at this time, a few of the cafes have closed for the season, also a fair drive, Elgol will be nearly 1 hour from Kyle of Lochalsh.

    Ullapool is a very good shout, as would be the Black Isle area and towns near it, saves a long drive. NC500 should certainly be much quieter through Feb, and I find Sutherland is ideal if you like bleak scenery!
    Sandwood Bay, about five miles south of Cape Wrath, was the favourite spot in Britain for Wainwright (the person you will associate with the Lakes).

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sandwood+Bay+Beach/@58.5383923,-5.059977,3a,78y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMwn1JaJgnk0KQfNBXIie0JtmrYR1n2mqciuV1o!2e10!3e12!6shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipMwn1JaJgnk0KQfNBXIie0JtmrYR1n2mqciuV1o=w114-h86-k-no!7i995!8i746!4m16!1m8!3m7!1s0x488e30fbb7a7b361:0x59c4937301c9c80d!2sUllapool!3b1!8m2!3d57.895418!4d-5.161313!16zL20vMDF6Znc4!3m6!1s0x48903350f28bce17:0x3d3919cd599dcbed!8m2!3d58.5383923!4d-5.059977!10e5!16zL20vMDliejV6?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    Open consultation
    Raising product standards for space heating
    ...
    The consultation is open to anyone to respond, but we welcome views in particular from:

    • consumers
    • installers
    • manufacturers
    • wider industry
    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/raising-product-standards-for-space-heating

    For those who have discussed the matter on PB, the government is listening (it says here).
    Thanks for the post.

    Not having read all ~235 pages and 4 documents, the basics are that this needs to be aligned to EU standards for simplicity. Our climate regions are within the same envelope, however generally milder and perhaps more variable within the more moderate parts of the range.

    It has been aligned for 4 (?) decades, and there's no reason not to align on these.

    Some of it is around higher efficiency standards and product safety, which is good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    Reminds me of Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsom in the US. Supremely confident in his own abilities, talks a great game, but fails to actually deliver anything of note that doesn’t make things worse.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    If you want the UK economy to improve then jacking up National Insurance as a tax on jobs was precisely the wrong way to go about it.

    We should be rebalancing the taxation system so that unearned and earning incomes are treated the same, which would help fill in black holes, not make the system worse by taxing employment even more while leaving unearned incomes untouched.

    The Budget was a horrendous mistake.
    Labour seem to think that reorganising local government is more important than reorganising council tax.
    Sorting the boundaries out must come first, so core cities can capture the tax base of those for whom they provide services.
    I do love the word 'capture'.

    The voters are less likely to enjoy having their taxes captured and spent elsewhere.
    It’s not “elsewhere” - that’s the point. Parts of Manchester and Newcastle city centre are not under the control of their city council. Nottingham’s boundary is batshit crazy. Places that are part and parcel of the cities are not paying towards it services. This isn’t complicated.
    I agree about the West Bridgford - Nottingham split but that's the way things have developed and I would be loath, as an outsider, to force local people into someone else's 'masterplan'.

    BTW have you got something against Derbyshire - you want to give part of it to 'Greater Nottingham' and part of it to 'Greater Manchester'.

    Does any get given to 'Greater Sheffield' ? Parts of High Peak, Derbyshire Dales and Derbyshire NE are in the Sheffield commuter zone.

    Perhaps the most sensible change in Derbyshire would be to create a 'Greater Chesterfield' unitary out of Chesterfield, Bolsover and Derbyshire NE. In theory that is - I have no idea what the locals would want.

    Likewise should northern Nottinghamshire be annexed into Greater Doncaster together with the Isle of Axholme and maybe Goole ? Pulpstar might support this.
    IMO the relatively cautious changes around Mayors over a time has been effective, and I don't get the idea that it is all in a rush and being imposed by next year - afaics the proposals in the White Paper are for a "first wave" in this Parliament, not all of it by next Easter (sarcasm).

    Derbyshire aiui looks mainly to Derby, Matlock, Chesterfield (is there somewhere else at the north end, such as Chapel?), with one edge case perhaps being the W and NW side of the Peak District which looks to Manchester to an extent. That is perhaps an artefact of the Peak District Park being a Planning Authority for all these decades.

    To me the most appropriate principles are to take enough time, and not confuse service delivery with identity. We risk local services being swept up into centres 10 or 20 miles away because a bureaucrat thinks it will be "more efficient" at the sub-regional not local level, when what is happening is access to a service is being withdrawn simply from localities and the people without their own personal transport. Recycling centres moving away from localities are one example; I saw all of this in Shropshire in the noughties. A local Council cannot be replaced with a vacuum.

    It's only a few years since the 'Sheffield City Region' was trying to appropriate Matlock, which is right in the middle of Derbyshire where the County Council are based. But I think a Regional Mayor for Notts and Derbys has laid that particular notion.

    When I loved right at the south end of Bolsover, our local police station for call-outs was the sixth closest - Bolsover district being very long and thin.

    The obsession with "fewer politicians" is a mistake. If the claim is to give 'people' better representation, imposing less representation by fiat is not the way. I was struck by the remark earlier that identity was with District Councillors not County; here I don't feel that. But OTOH I'm in the middle of an area of nearly 100k people where the police station is an annexe in the Council Offices - brought in in the name of saving money when Cameron pithed the police service.

    As ever in the UK, change needs to be evolutionary.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    edited December 18

    Northern Powerhouse backing High Peak merging with Greater Manchester.

    Henri Murison, who is the chief executive of the business-led think tank the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, believes the High Peak should be allowed to join Greater Manchester as part of the shake-up. He said: “The Hope Valley line is a key economic link between Sheffield and Manchester and the communities along it are conclusively part of the northern travel to work area.

    “ Towns like Glossop are as much part of Greater Manchester as Stalybridge or Heaton Chapel. The 90,000 people there use many of the same services, such as in health, making this the right footprint for public service reform as well as transport.”

    Are they? I think the crucial point is how the people living there see themselves.

    You don't do these things by drawing lines on a map like Cecil Rhodes dividing up Southern Africa. We learnt that is 1972.

    It's only a blink of the eye since you were asserting that Ripley is part of Nottingham :smile: . That methodology is the wrong end of the stick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Sports awards went very much with the betting.

    Well done to anyone who had Keely in their book before the Olympics, and I will take a random guess that absolutely no-one had Luke Littler on the list before the darts final last year!

    Armand Duplantis a good call for the overseas award as well, I live in fear that one year they’re going to think about giving it to Max Verstappen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,144
    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    Reminds me of Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsom in the US. Supremely confident in his own abilities, talks a great game, but fails to actually deliver anything of note that doesn’t make things worse.
    So also like Sunak, Badenoch or Truss?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,914
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    He’s got too much of the Miliband factor.
    Who would you choose for Labour’s next leader?
    Apart from the disappointing lack of a uterus (which is becoming an increasingly embarrassing issue) Andy Burnham seems head and shoulders the best. Been running somewhere (moderately successfully one assumes). Seems actually human.

    But how do you get him in parliament? Pretty soon there will be no such thing as a safe Labour seat for a byelection - outside perhaps of London.
    Andy Burnham. Believes in nothing, has no political viewpoint and changes like a weathervane.

    Why?
    Are the two reasons I stated not enough? The lack of ministerial and governmental experience of this Government has crippled it. And Starmer has all the human touch of a gimlet.

    Does Burnham really 'believe in nothing'? Is he a worse example of the type than Sir Tuition fees? I haven't paid him any attention since he was in the Labour Government, but he seems to be holding down the Mayor job OK, so that puts him head and shoulders above any current Labour politician.
    Burnham's time was in 2015, had Labour elected him leader then not Corbyn Burnham may even have beaten May in 2017.

    Now though Streeting or Rayner are the likely main contenders if Starmer goes, Burnham seems happy running Manchester as its Mayor and is not even an MP now
    Burnham has found his own level. He may still hanker after high office but he's not as clever as he thinks he is.

    Darren Jones seems to be able to walk the walk as well as talking the talk, so probably not him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Sir Keir hopes the economy will be significantly better by this time next year.

    It it is, his figures will improve significantly.

    If not, start betting on Mr Streeting.

    I think we all agree with Keir on this. We all hope the economy will improve significantly.

    I don’t think it will though. Too many global headwinds.
    Then start betting on Mr Streeting.
    Can Labour REALLY appoint another male leader?

    I mean - really???
    I think very unlikely to be Streeting.

    If Starmer quits then Reeves is toast too.

    Rayner has the position and ambition, as well as enough left wing rhetoric to get the juices flowing.

    Philipson and Cooper also good bets. Cooper is doing well at the Home Office, ramping up deportations to levels not seen under any of the last 3 Tory PMs.
    Streeting really does make me feel uneasy. In a vague of 'Arthur Daley' version of Blair kind of way. There's something about the self-assuredness, but without the depth to back it up. Maybe a few years of government will make him. But for now he really turns me off the current Labour agenda.
    Reminds me of Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsom in the US. Supremely confident in his own abilities, talks a great game, but fails to actually deliver anything of note that doesn’t make things worse.
    So also like Sunak, Badenoch or Truss?
    Sunak talking about Rwanda is definitely a fair comparison.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,500
    Sandpit said:

    Sports awards went very much with the betting.

    Well done to anyone who had Keely in their book before the Olympics, and I will take a random guess that absolutely no-one had Luke Littler on the list before the darts final last year!

    Armand Duplantis a good call for the overseas award as well, I live in fear that one year they’re going to think about giving it to Max Verstappen.

    The last three winners of SPOTY before last night:
    Mary Earps, Beth Mead, Emma Radacanu,

    I'd say none of them have achieved much afterwards, and aside from Radacanu, have pretty much disappeared out of public consciousness outside their field.
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