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A British Tradition – politicalbetting.com

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  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536
    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    Thread on the text, just out, of the assisted dying Private Member's Bill:

    https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1856098117239628083

    (From a long-time opponent, admittedly.)

    Is there a tl;dr for those of us not blessed by Elon?
    On practicality alone:

    "The High Court must approve applications. If we use Oregon as a baseline, that means 7,500 assisted suicide in England and Wales per year.

    There are 18 High Court judges in the Family Division. That comes to 400 applications per judge per year."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    Lucan starting on BBC2. Interesting for fans of True Crime.
  • According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science."
    https://avi-loeb.medium.com/avi-loebs-statement-on-uap-to-the-house-oversight-and-accountability-committee-3cc124e8cdd8
    Not a lot of anything in that statement (I have read his piece). He posits that discovering alien life would be a new copernican revolution and I cannot disagree. But that has nothing to do with claims that the US deep state has covered up such proof already.
    I believe the opposite conspiracy theory - that the "deep state" (Department of Defence/NASA/Boeing) have created hoaxes to justify their budgets.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,300
    ohnotnow said:

    According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science.
    It reads a little like a plea for more research grants. Which is fair enough, but nothing out of the ordinary.
    I’ve been interested in the Fortean all my life. As I get older and maybe wiser I find my skepticism is getting worse. I used to think a lot of things were more likely real than I do now. In the eighties when I grew up and started to take an interest we thought that if only we had cameras on us all the time, then we would finally get the proof we need for everything weird. And yet now we have this, we still don’t have any better evidence, and worse we now have the ability to fake images and videos with ease.

    I’ve also been following UFO lore for decades and am very familiar with the history of the phenomenon. All the latest stuff in congress has been generated out of the Skinwalker ranch, by Robert Bigelow and friends. That’s it. If you want to see it for what it is just watch any of the endless TV shows about the place.

    I’ve dreamed of finding the yeti, or Nessie, but I’d settle for a living thylacine. I don’t believe in ghosts - it’s our minds creating things for me. I’m agnostic on poltergeists. Too many reports of stuff for it all to be faked, but I’m still not sure.

    UFOs and UAPs are mostly miss-identified things and misperception. Sometimes more than one event coincides and gets conflated, like In Todmorden with the dead man on the heap of coal, a missing herd of cows and a policeman thinking he saw a UFO.

    Other times flaps occur. My home, Warminster, saw a huge flap in the 60’s that lasted into the 70’s. Read ‘In Alien Heat’ for an excellent summary and find out what really was going on (not UFOs).

    So I hold out no hope that Congress will find anything. They will talk to grifters and people taken in by grifters. There is money to be made from this stuff. See the Skinwalker shit for a start.
  • carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    Thread on the text, just out, of the assisted dying Private Member's Bill:

    https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1856098117239628083

    (From a long-time opponent, admittedly.)

    Is there a tl;dr for those of us not blessed by Elon?
    On practicality alone:

    "The High Court must approve applications. If we use Oregon as a baseline, that means 7,500 assisted suicide in England and Wales per year.

    There are 18 High Court judges in the Family Division. That comes to 400 applications per judge per year."
    That's absolutely nuts. But I took a quick look at the bill to check and it seems to be correct. FFS. We need to get killing boomers so that millennials and zoomers can buy houses, don't need this sort of nonsense in the way.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    edited November 11
    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    I've been digging around. How much PPE, paid for by the taxpayer, has been destroyed? 1,049,700 pallets, which cost us £8.644 billion. How much of our money has been spent storing PPE in China? £60.6 million."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1855979587844350341
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331
    edited November 11
    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    Thread on the text, just out, of the assisted dying Private Member's Bill:

    https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1856098117239628083

    (From a long-time opponent, admittedly.)

    Is there a tl;dr for those of us not blessed by Elon?
    On practicality alone:

    "The High Court must approve applications. If we use Oregon as a baseline, that means 7,500 assisted suicide in England and Wales per year.

    There are 18 High Court judges in the Family Division. That comes to 400 applications per judge per year."
    It sounds a lot, but I'd guess the vast majority would be rubber-stamped and take no more than 5 or 10 minutes. A couple of extra judges could be appointed to deal with the edge cases. It would still be a lot cheaper than keeping people, who'd rather die with dignity, alive for a few months .
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536
    "Be over the age of 18, a resident in England and Wales and registered with a GP for at least 12 months"

    Moved recently and now find you're terminally ill? Fuck you, wait it out.

    Was this bill drafted by a gibbon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,958
    carnforth said:

    "Be over the age of 18, a resident in England and Wales and registered with a GP for at least 12 months"

    Moved recently and now find you're terminally ill? Fuck you, wait it out.

    Was this bill drafted by a gibbon?

    Edward Gibbon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,958
    edited November 11
    Andy_JS said:

    "Rupert Lowe MP
    @RupertLowe10

    I've been digging around. How much PPE, paid for by the taxpayer, has been destroyed? 1,049,700 pallets, which cost us £8.644 billion. How much of our money has been spent storing PPE in China? £60.6 million."

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1855979587844350341

    “Modern” PPE is biodegradable plastic. Which, when it is thin, has a short shelf life…

    Oh, and for LOLs - “biodegradable plastic” is a big source of microplastic pollution.

    But non-expendable PPE is impossible, or so it is claimed. Apart from the stuff used in a variety of industries, of course.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,536

    carnforth said:

    "Be over the age of 18, a resident in England and Wales and registered with a GP for at least 12 months"

    Moved recently and now find you're terminally ill? Fuck you, wait it out.

    Was this bill drafted by a gibbon?

    Edward Gibbon?
    Has his Stamp on it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,799
    edited November 11
    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc
  • ohnotnow said:

    According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science.
    It reads a little like a plea for more research grants. Which is fair enough, but nothing out of the ordinary.
    What is odd is the implied meanings, I would say.

    He mentions that his team is about to produce "unprecedented results", and then mentions a "Copernican revolution in Science. He also seems to pointedly say that it was "unfortunate" that Congress didn't want to hear about results, and later, a propos seemingly of nothing, raises the issue of "whether humanity can handle it."

    He's either going to announce some extraordinary results or was going to, or is just engaged in publicity and hype, which seems strange.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,563

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    That's roughly in line with our trend since 2008. Some of the lowest hanging fruit has been picked off, but technology has moved on since then too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    "England’s revolt against change
    Dismissing the summer’s riots as mere “far-right thuggery” is a political failing.
    By Jonathan Rutherford"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 789
    edited November 12
    Cyclefree said:

    carnforth said:

    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    Thread on the text, just out, of the assisted dying Private Member's Bill:

    https://x.com/yuanyi_z/status/1856098117239628083

    (From a long-time opponent, admittedly.)

    Is there a tl;dr for those of us not blessed by Elon?
    On practicality alone:

    "The High Court must approve applications. If we use Oregon as a baseline, that means 7,500 assisted suicide in England and Wales per year.

    There are 18 High Court judges in the Family Division. That comes to 400 applications per judge per year."
    It sounds a lot, but I'd guess the vast majority would be rubber-stamped and take no more than 5 or 10 minutes. A couple of extra judges could be appointed to deal with the edge cases. It would still be a lot cheaper than keeping people, who'd rather die with dignity, alive for a few months .
    If they are rubber stamped then they are not safeguards. Worth reading what the most senior Family judge, just retired has said about this topic. Such an important decision should not be rubber stamped.

    Everyone in this country has the right to commit suicide at a time and in a manner of their own choosing. That is not what this Bill is about. It is about allowing others to help kill someone and in many cases not just help but actually kill someone. The ethical, legal, practical and emotional difficulties of this - let alone the evidence from other countries or what we have learnt here about the nature of coercive control and who it is most likely to affect - have not been considered at all and 5 hours to consider all these factors when the Bill hasn't even been published yet is an absurdly short period of time to scrutinise this properly. It also shows utter contempt for Parliament and the concerns of very many groups - from the disabled to palliative care doctors and so on.

    All the emotional sob stories are an attempt to make us forget that such a law does not apply just to a few individuals but to everyone and it will have an effect on everyone, on the ethical training of doctors, on the relationship between us and doctors and much else besides.

    I will dig out what the judge has said and what an MP who, in his professional capacity was involved in one of the court cases on assisted dying, have said on the topic and you will see how much more complex this than the superficial emotional nonsense Ledbetter and Esther Rantzen have come up with.
    It doesn't need a detailed analysis. For every accusation of my side appealing to emotion with sob stories we have ten accusations of your(?) side appealing to emotion with *hypothetical* sob stories . Let people die if they want to. It's that simple.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "England’s revolt against change
    Dismissing the summer’s riots as mere “far-right thuggery” is a political failing.
    By Jonathan Rutherford"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    Remimds me of some Brexit pieces.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science."
    https://avi-loeb.medium.com/avi-loebs-statement-on-uap-to-the-house-oversight-and-accountability-committee-3cc124e8cdd8
    Not a lot of anything in that statement (I have read his piece). He posits that discovering alien life would be a new copernican revolution and I cannot disagree. But that has nothing to do with claims that the US deep state has covered up such proof already.
    I believe the opposite conspiracy theory - that the "deep state" (Department of Defence/NASA/Boeing) have created hoaxes to justify their budgets.
    That’s my number 1 explanation

    Either that or the USA has some genuinely amazing tech which people have accidentally witnessed and they’re trying to keep it quiet

    There is a weirdness here, which needs explaining. Sadly I don’t believe aliens are very likely (sadly, coz that would be fun)

    You can’t rule out alien life completely however. And if they are here it’s probably in the form of inorganic von Neumann probes, sent out to explore the cosmos forever
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    Oh, and good morning from the island of Sirgao, in the Philippines

    I genuinely had no idea the Philippines would be this beautiful. But they are. Astonishing
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351
  • Archbishop of Canterbury extended interview on John Smyth scandal and resigning
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz2XYmr0gos

    Proper car crash.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351

    I’ve just been reading the Altrincham story. Mind boggling

    The whole of Europe is gonna end up electing its own version of Trump - or, quite possibly, far worse. More right wing and more brutal and less democratic and even keener on “deportation”

    That is the INEVITABLE end of the road we’ve chosen, unless a sane and sensible party acts first
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,975
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Arizona Senate. Estimated 88 percent of votes have been counted.

    Votes received and percentages of total vote
    Candidate Votes Pct.
    Ruben Gallego DEM 1,484,205 49.7
    Kari Lake GOP 1,436,045 48.1
    Eduardo Quintana GRN 63,582 2.1

    Lead: 48,160

    Arizona Senate. Estimated 88.9 percent of votes have been counted.

    Votes received and percentages of total vote
    Candidate Votes Pct.
    Ruben Gallego DEM 1,500,850 49.8
    Kari Lake GOP 1,449,464 48.1
    Eduardo Quintana GRN 64,552 2.1

    Lead: 51,386
    Arizona Senate. Estimated 91.8 percent of votes have been counted.

    Votes received and percentages of total vote
    Candidate Votes Pct.
    Ruben Gallego DEM 1,555,426 50.0
    Kari Lake GOP 1,488,733 47.8
    Eduardo Quintana GRN 67,961 2.2

    Lead: 66,693


    Arizona Senate. Estimated 93.1 percent of votes have been counted.

    Votes received and percentages of total vote
    Candidate Votes Pct.
    Ruben Gallego DEM 1,574,597 50.0
    Kari Lake GOP 1,505,837 47.8
    Eduardo Quintana GRN 69,107 2.2

    Lead 68,760
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,799
    edited November 12
    Justin Wokeby admits to his own incompetence and multiple personal failings handling things (but not covering anything up). Well that should be a resigning matter in itself.

    It used to be that when an institution failed, the head would tender their resignation. Now everybody seems to have be dragged out. Boris, the bankers, the Bishops...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255

    Fucking lunatic.
    The obvious endpoint for Israel, however

    I’m not justifying this merely saying that I extrapolated this as soon as October 7 happened. Israel cannot tolerate any kind of Palestinian entity on its borders, not any more. As it will be seen as an existential threat to Israel and to all Jews in Israel

    Ergo, most of the Palestinians will be entirely driven from their homes. They will do this by making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland constantly patrolled by drones - a literal dystopia. The West Bank will become an Israeli region with all Arab and Palestinian identity erased

    And Israel will dare the world to stop her by saying Come and have a go, we’ve got nukes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,799
    edited November 12
    Paging Leon...

    Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude. Amanda Askell is an AI researcher working on Claude's character and personality. Chris Olah is an AI researcher working on mechanistic interpretability.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugvHCXCOmm4
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    Leon said:

    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351

    I’ve just been reading the Altrincham story. Mind boggling

    The whole of Europe is gonna end up electing its own version of Trump - or, quite possibly, far worse. More right wing and more brutal and less democratic and even keener on “deportation”

    That is the INEVITABLE end of the road we’ve chosen, unless a sane and sensible party acts first
    In some nations, Hungary with Orban and Italy with Meloni they already have.

    However Trump mainly won on the economy and inflation, he actually gained Black and Hispanic votes, more than on the border control issue. How his tariffs impact that and whether his immigrant deportations work will determine his re election chances
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    Leon said:

    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255

    Fucking lunatic.
    The obvious endpoint for Israel, however

    I’m not justifying this merely saying that I extrapolated this as soon as October 7 happened. Israel cannot tolerate any kind of Palestinian entity on its borders, not any more. As it will be seen as an existential threat to Israel and to all Jews in Israel

    Ergo, most of the Palestinians will be entirely driven from their homes. They will do this by making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland constantly patrolled by drones - a literal dystopia. The West Bank will become an Israeli region with all Arab and Palestinian identity erased

    And Israel will dare the world to stop her by saying Come and have a go, we’ve got nukes
    Trump could give it American backing and go down as the president who solved the Middle East.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    Leon said:

    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255

    Fucking lunatic.
    The obvious endpoint for Israel, however

    I’m not justifying this merely saying that I extrapolated this as soon as October 7 happened. Israel cannot tolerate any kind of Palestinian entity on its borders, not any more. As it will be seen as an existential threat to Israel and to all Jews in Israel

    Ergo, most of the Palestinians will be entirely driven from their homes. They will do this by making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland constantly patrolled by drones - a literal dystopia. The West Bank will become an Israeli region with all Arab and Palestinian identity erased

    And Israel will dare the world to stop her by saying Come and have a go, we’ve got nukes
    All that will do is send all moderate Palestinians to Hamas too with Iran's backing stepped up further for it as well
  • President-elect Donald Trump is expected to be name Florida congressman Michael Waltz as the next national security adviser, two sources familiar with the matter told CBS News
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244

    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255

    Israel clearly want the whole of ancient Israel, including Gaza and the West Bank, but do they have the demographics to populate it and make it work?

    I'd say there are simply too many Palestinians there so unless they are deported or driven out in their millions it's not easy to expand the Jewish state with, ultimately, a democratic basis.
  • Leon said:

    According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science."
    https://avi-loeb.medium.com/avi-loebs-statement-on-uap-to-the-house-oversight-and-accountability-committee-3cc124e8cdd8
    Not a lot of anything in that statement (I have read his piece). He posits that discovering alien life would be a new copernican revolution and I cannot disagree. But that has nothing to do with claims that the US deep state has covered up such proof already.
    I believe the opposite conspiracy theory - that the "deep state" (Department of Defence/NASA/Boeing) have created hoaxes to justify their budgets.
    That’s my number 1 explanation

    Either that or the USA has some genuinely amazing tech which people have accidentally witnessed and they’re trying to keep it quiet

    There is a weirdness here, which needs explaining. Sadly I don’t believe aliens are very likely (sadly, coz that would be fun)

    You can’t rule out alien life completely however. And if they are here it’s probably in the form of inorganic von Neumann probes, sent out to explore the cosmos forever
    As you say: Either that or the USA has some genuinely amazing tech which people have accidentally witnessed and they’re trying to keep it quiet

    We already know that in the past, the Pentagon has taken advantage of UFO reports as cover for its own secret activities, including flying Russian MIG fighters for training purposes. Your second explanation is most likely.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Leon said:

    Smotrich announces plans for Israel to annex the West Bank.

    https://x.com/ajenglish/status/1856090776801030255

    Fucking lunatic.
    The obvious endpoint for Israel, however

    I’m not justifying this merely saying that I extrapolated this as soon as October 7 happened. Israel cannot tolerate any kind of Palestinian entity on its borders, not any more. As it will be seen as an existential threat to Israel and to all Jews in Israel

    Ergo, most of the Palestinians will be entirely driven from their homes. They will do this by making Gaza an uninhabitable wasteland constantly patrolled by drones - a literal dystopia. The West Bank will become an Israeli region with all Arab and Palestinian identity erased

    And Israel will dare the world to stop her by saying Come and have a go, we’ve got nukes
    That's clearly what they're doing.

    Israel is essentially behaving as a settler colony in the 1880s/1890s but in the 21st Century. It reminds me slightly of the founding of Rhodesia.

    As they see it all the Jews were unjustly expelled a few thousand years ago and the Palestinians shouldn't even be there - it's their ancient home - and they really don't like them.

    From this, everything in the conflict follows.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633

    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
    Though neither can govern without the other. Meloni only came to power in Italy with support of centre right Forza Italia and in Canada the divide on the right between the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives kept the right out of power for a decade under FPTP until they merged.

    In France Le Pen will remain out of power without mainstream right support. Even Trump only won with enough support from wealthy suburban former Haley voters too
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Leon said:

    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351

    I’ve just been reading the Altrincham story. Mind boggling

    The whole of Europe is gonna end up electing its own version of Trump - or, quite possibly, far worse. More right wing and more brutal and less democratic and even keener on “deportation”

    That is the INEVITABLE end of the road we’ve chosen, unless a sane and sensible party acts first
    It's potentially catastrophic.

    There's clearly a belief amongst many in authority that the public cannot be trusted with the truth, as too many amongst them are latent racists, and this fuels chronic mistrust. They don't believe a word they say.

    You then have a rights culture around asylum seekers that means they can (and must) have access to services and privileges given their disadvantage, that domestic Britons often struggle to get, which is philosophically underpinned by anti-racism and concepts of global equity.

    It's a tinderbox.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
    Though neither can govern without the other. Meloni only came to power in Italy with support of centre right Forza Italia and in Canada the divide on the right between the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives kept the right out of power for a decade under FPTP until they merged.

    In France Le Pen will remain out of power without mainstream right support. Even Trump only won with enough support from wealthy suburban former Haley voters too
    I'm hoping very much that Kemi Badenoch can be this country's secret weapon against populism which I'm not a supporter of (but which I think is important in understanding what's going wrong in a given country). Fingers crossed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244

    Justin Wokeby admits to his own incompetence and multiple personal failings handling things (but not covering anything up). Well that should be a resigning matter in itself.

    It used to be that when an institution failed, the head would tender their resignation. Now everybody seems to have be dragged out. Boris, the bankers, the Bishops...

    If I could bet on him resigning this week I would though.

    His position is untenable.

    Always always be very suspicious of anyone or any organisation that goes Superwoke.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    The safe option to replace Saint Gary is Mark Chapman as he is already MOTD2 host and all round professional that everybody goes to for sport presenter gigs.

    But the quote about wanting to refresh the programme suggests otherwise, checks what happened to viewership of Football Focus....

    Not watched it in years, what did happen to it?
    Me neither.

    I assume the thing that happened to it is it became overtaken by YouTube and other, superior, more timely alternatives to outdated 20th century linear television programming?
    It's still a good highlights programme, with interesting analysis. Not that there have been many highlights for my team this season.
    MOTD analysis is not interesting. Its terrible. Its outdated. Its often totally wrong. Its like Sky cricket was before they had a massive overhaul. This chummy club that is all very pleasant but they are way too comfortable and really not up with things.

    There is a limited shelf life for an ex-pro, unless they are willing to really keep up to date with the progression of any professional sport.
    Being a pundit is a good way to not have a limited shelflife, many get years or decades out of it as Linekar demonstrates. It's just there are limited slots available.
    Lineker has earnt more as a pundit than he ever did as a footballer, when really it should have been the other way around and Des Lynam should have been the highest ever paid BBC football pundit
    Is that true? Granted Lineker has been a pundit for 25 years, and was a footballer before the explosion in players' wages, but he did play for Barcelona.

    Lineker has a third life (or fourth if we include crisp sales). Look at the podcast charts, for instance:-
    1. The Rest Is History
    2. The Rest Is Politics
    3. The Joe Rogan Experience
    4. Begin Again with Davina McCall
    5. The Louis Theroux Podcast
    6. Kill List
    7. The Rest Is Politics: US
    8. Extrasensory
    9. The Rest Is Entertainment
    10. Strangers on a Bench
    https://uk.podwatch.io/charts/

    Four of the top 10 podcasts on Spotify and Apple are The Rest Is... produced by Goalhanger, the production company founded by Gary Lineker.


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
    Though neither can govern without the other. Meloni only came to power in Italy with support of centre right Forza Italia and in Canada the divide on the right between the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives kept the right out of power for a decade under FPTP until they merged.

    In France Le Pen will remain out of power without mainstream right support. Even Trump only won with enough support from wealthy suburban former Haley voters too
    I'm hoping very much that Kemi Badenoch can be this country's secret weapon against populism which I'm not a supporter of (but which I think is important in understanding what's going wrong in a given country). Fingers crossed.
    Only if she delivers. That's the only weapon the Tories have against populists.

    Otherwise, they will win.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Andy_JS said:
    Too short. I might take it at 8/1 and above though.

    It's closer than one might think and no longer a complete longshot.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,975

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
    Though neither can govern without the other. Meloni only came to power in Italy with support of centre right Forza Italia and in Canada the divide on the right between the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives kept the right out of power for a decade under FPTP until they merged.

    In France Le Pen will remain out of power without mainstream right support. Even Trump only won with enough support from wealthy suburban former Haley voters too
    I'm hoping very much that Kemi Badenoch can be this country's secret weapon against populism which I'm not a supporter of (but which I think is important in understanding what's going wrong in a given country). Fingers crossed.
    Only if she delivers. That's the only weapon the Tories have against populists.

    Otherwise, they will win.
    We should have one. The Rest Is Political Betting. :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,072

    JD Vance is a future superstar. And I hate to say that.

    The assumption that the incoherent and contradictory policy agenda that Trump is setting out will end up being a success is... unlikely.
    The clucking in the hen house caused by the return of Trump seems to have lost sight of the fundamental contradictions at the heart of the alt-right agenda. Whatever your view of the MAGA analysis, whether right or wrong, the policy "solutions" are going to be disruptive, chaotic and probably dangerous.
    In the first cold like of the Trump victory, we seem to all be drinking the Kool-ade... Trump is highly unlikely to achieve lasting success, even on his own terms.
    Politics needs to be thinking about the consequences of this likely failure and ultimately what happens after populism.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453

    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935

    Is Tulsi Gabbard likely to get a job?
  • Andy_JS said:

    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935

    Is Tulsi Gabbard likely to get a job?
    And what job does Musk get?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,799
    edited November 12

    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935

    Rubio is very pro Israel ongoing action against Hamas....

    "I want them to destroy every element of Hamas they can get their hands on. These people are vicious animals who did vicious crimes. And I hope you guys post that."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,453
    edited November 12
    "1975: Fyfe Robertson Wonders: Is life getting worse? BBC Archive"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tciU1shIA
  • viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    More from that article I posted earlier, from the left-of-centre New Statesman.

    "The August riots have deep roots in the dispossession of the majority white working class of provincial England. Expect national populism amongst the petit bourgeois to flourish. And as Labour and the Tories struggle to get 30 per cent of the vote, consider the prospect of Reform out-polling them both. Tommy Robinson (now in prison for contempt of court) and his brand of pro-Christian, anti-Muslim, working-class politics will continue to build support in the housing estates of England. And do not dismiss their appeal to minority ethnic groups."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/11/englands-revolt-against-change

    That's a good piece.

    Kemi has a difficult job. I could easily see Reform overtaking the Tories, and taking votes from Labour, if she doesn't get it right with real solutions, just as Tea Party/MAGA took over the Republicans, the DUP overtook the UUP, and FN superseded other opposition in France.
    Though neither can govern without the other. Meloni only came to power in Italy with support of centre right Forza Italia and in Canada the divide on the right between the Reform party and Progressive Conservatives kept the right out of power for a decade under FPTP until they merged.

    In France Le Pen will remain out of power without mainstream right support. Even Trump only won with enough support from wealthy suburban former Haley voters too
    I'm hoping very much that Kemi Badenoch can be this country's secret weapon against populism which I'm not a supporter of (but which I think is important in understanding what's going wrong in a given country). Fingers crossed.
    Only if she delivers. That's the only weapon the Tories have against populists.

    Otherwise, they will win.
    We should have one. The Rest Is Political Betting. :)
    The listeners might get a shock when they tune in and find the ongoing discussion topics range from AI supremacy to the best pizza from chain restaurants....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,975

    Andy_JS said:

    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935

    Is Tulsi Gabbard likely to get a job?
    And what job does Musk get?
    POTUS
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Trump expected to name Marco Rubio as Secretary of State.

    https://x.com/guypbenson/status/1856147532818026935

    Is Tulsi Gabbard likely to get a job?
    And what job does Musk get?
    POTUS
    He might consider that an unnecessary demotion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Why would he be invited ?
    He's at times been actively obstructive, and is now a lame duck on borrowed time.

    Donald Tusks plans meetings with Emmanuel Macron, Keir Starmer, Mark Rutte, Nordic/Baltic leaders...

    ... but not with Scholz (so far). Seems emblematic for the German-Polish rift. Tusk was upset when Scholz didn't invite him to the Quad summit in Berlin.

    https://x.com/vonderburchard/status/1855253684050956415
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854

    Leon said:

    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351

    I’ve just been reading the Altrincham story. Mind boggling

    The whole of Europe is gonna end up electing its own version of Trump - or, quite possibly, far worse. More right wing and more brutal and less democratic and even keener on “deportation”

    That is the INEVITABLE end of the road we’ve chosen, unless a sane and sensible party acts first
    It's potentially catastrophic.

    There's clearly a belief amongst many in authority that the public cannot be trusted with the truth, as too many amongst them are latent racists, and this fuels chronic mistrust. They don't believe a word they say.

    You then have a rights culture around asylum seekers that means they can (and must) have access to services and privileges given their disadvantage, that domestic Britons often struggle to get, which is philosophically underpinned by anti-racism and concepts of global equity.

    It's a tinderbox.
    Well it was, deservedly so, for the Tories at the last election.
    The absurdity of keeping huge numbers of asylum seekers in enforced idleness, semi detention, for years at a time, in poor conditions - which nonetheless cost a fortune - is obvious.

    If Labour don't address it quickly (they've got a couple of years, but that cannot mean a couple if years of ineffective action) then the more extreme predictions of folk like Leon might come to pass.

    Hoping to do what the Tories did, but a bit more effectively, probably wont cut it.

    That absolutely need not mean adopting the Reform agenda, but it does mean radical change from the existing policy.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,307
    Leon said:

    Residents in Altrincham are told not to worry about the impact of migrants on local services because they’re being given private healthcare.

    https://x.com/byapptto/status/1856087694679638351

    I’ve just been reading the Altrincham story. Mind boggling

    The whole of Europe is gonna end up electing its own version of Trump - or, quite possibly, far worse. More right wing and more brutal and less democratic and even keener on “deportation”

    That is the INEVITABLE end of the road we’ve chosen, unless a sane and sensible party acts first
    This middle class neigbourhood elected 3 green councillors. The greens are avidly pro asylum seeker. The electors are getting what they voted for. They have no complaint. Voting has consequences.

    I also see the asylum seekers are getting free private health care. That will go,down well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Very heavy fighting in Kursk.
    The Russians are reportedly committing their better troops.

    .Very bloody battles are going on in Kursk oblast. After a failed attack at the first day of operation the enemy used a bare minimum in terms of using AFV at my flank and in the centre.

    But today, 11.11.24, four attacks took place only in my flank.

    Kursk update🧵

    https://x.com/OSINTua/status/1856030625880588444
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,938
    @bpolitics

    Democratic Representative Ruben Gallego defeated Republican Kari Lake in the Arizona Senate race, AP said
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487
    Very good piece, and welcome back Mrs @Cyclefree
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487

    President-elect Donald Trump is expected to be name Florida congressman Michael Waltz as the next national security adviser, two sources familiar with the matter told CBS News

    Good good. Last week he said we need to be much harder on Russian sanctions and those who are buying his oil, while letting Ukraine do what they wish with American weapons, in order to force Putin to the negotiating table from a point of weakness. https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1856166839794933992
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,307
    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Apparently we need to ‘set an example’ to others.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,741
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Fishing, economic self-harm in the name of self-righteous stupidity is not necessarily something that the electorate will enjoy.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,002

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Fishing, economic self-harm in the name of self-righteous stupidity is not necessarily something that the electorate will enjoy.

    If it's hidden in energy bills, general prices and general taxation, and if it's all introduced gradually and smeared over generations, they won't necessarily realise how much they are being screwed though. The nutters are being very smart that way.

    That's why there hasn't been a revolt yet.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Fishing, economic self-harm in the name of self-righteous stupidity is not necessarily something that the electorate will enjoy.

    BREXIT immediately sprang to mind as I read that...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    Good morning from the southern Philippines. Sitrep: Crap snorkelling, lovely weather, nice pork, extremely beautiful island-scapes
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,436
    Sandpit said:

    President-elect Donald Trump is expected to be name Florida congressman Michael Waltz as the next national security adviser, two sources familiar with the matter told CBS News

    Good good. Last week he said we need to be much harder on Russian sanctions and those who are buying his oil, while letting Ukraine do what they wish with American weapons, in order to force Putin to the negotiating table from a point of weakness. https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1856166839794933992
    And as a counterpoint to this, to show how the administration is going to go:

    Musky Baby replied "Interesting" to a post proclaiming: "Jeffrey Sachs explains how the US and NATO provoked the war in Ukraine."

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856172877688570095
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,741
    Mr. Voter, if Labour had not reneged on their referendum promise we'd still be in. Overtly lying to the electorate is not wise. Likewise if Labour tries to claim that voluntarily imposing higher energy prices is a good thing.

    Mr. Fishing, the Government's bold strategy to skip the honeymoon phase and go straight to being loathed plus Miliband's gleefully naive eco-zealotry should make it easier (if the Conservatives decide to be an Opposition to the Government instead of themselves) to tie this around their neck.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487
    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Miliband is a total idiot and risks a backlash against what are sensible long-term goals, by trying to accomplish them in the short term regardless of cost. All while ignoring tidal and small nuclear, which have the potential to be revolutionary.

    Meanwhile China is still building more coal power stations, and the incoming US administration is going to be more interested in drilling for oil than building windmills.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,328
    ...
    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Apparently we need to ‘set an example’ to others.

    The 'example' being other countries surveying the wreckage from on top of their piles of money and thinking 'Thank Christ we didn't do that'.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,960
    edited November 12


    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is worth noting Welby was going to retire next year anyway. I suspect all that will happen is the date will be brought forward from December to April.

    There is an article (in the Catholic journal The Tablet) here on the runners and riders -

    https://www.thetablet.co.uk/features/canterbury-who-next/

    I would certainly agree that Usher (Norwich) Snow (Leicester) and Tanner (Chester) are the likely candidates. That said, anyone who thinks Rachel Treweek has been a success at Gloucester is an idiot.

    Snow is an evangelical so can't be him as you can't have an evangelical succeed an evangelical as Archbishop
    That would be an ecumenical matter.
    It would also lead to Anglo Catholics and liberal Catholics in open revolt, both would veto another evangelical appointment
    Ah, but would they? I suspect they are more like Thatcher's wets- huff and puff but eventually back down in the name of unity. Whereas conservative/sound-on-gays evangelicals not only have a blocking minority but aren't afraid to use it.

    If I had to guess... the structure will be like last time- possibly the last few times. The obvious big names will be tossed around to be tossed out. Then someone surprising will be suggested, and nobody will come up with objections quickly, so they will be nominated fairly rapidly before anyone does.

    That's certainly how we ended up with Welby, and (to a lesser extent) with Williams.

    But from a profile of the runners to succeed George Carey;
    ...it has been a safe general rule since the war that the prime minister always chooses the archbishop whom his predecessor would least have wanted.

    http://ship-of-fools.com/features/2000/NextABC/Wales.html
    I'm not really convinced by that last para, and most material at Ship of Fools has always been tongue in cheek. There's been an informal Evangelical-side-of-centre, Catholic-side-of-centre pattern throughout my lifetime, which I think is more relevant.

    I assume that "predecessor" refers to the Archbishop, not the Prime Minister. After all, Mrs Thatcher appointed Robert Runcie, who was a liberal catholic and commissioned the Faith in the City Report, which the crusty end of the Tories called (laughably) "Marxist". She may have been impressed by his having won the Military Cross in WW2.

    We have not had anybody especially a long way out on either wing - if we had we would have had eg a Graham Leonard (former Bishop of London who was an Anglo-Catholic diehard opponent of women priests and eventually crossed the Tiber to the RC Church), and I'm not sure if I can think of Evangelicals even that far from the centre on the other wing, never mind who were in the running for ABC (Peter Nott?)? Conservative Evangelicals tend to be theologically opposed to the existence of Bishops in the Church of England sense (ie Apostolic Succession), or know that they may be better off not being one - see for example John Stott, or I think currently Revd William Taylor (St Helens, Bishopsgate), though he is now very much defined as part of the resistance-to-gay-marriage movement.

    He has also, incidentally, identified himself as one of the victims of Smyth. As has Dr Mark Stibbe.

    Perhaps the only fairly Conservative ABC since the war has been Donald Coggan, who was before my time.

    One could say Carey, but he had already published a book on Anglican - RC dialogue / common ground in I think 1987: "The Meeting of the Waters". He was more opposed to flummery, overcomplication, excess ceremonial, and remoteness, and was not really an intellectual. He mainly reserved his dislike for things like processions going round and round the cathedral like a Teddy Bear.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,741
    Mr. Sandpit, Miliband wants the credit. The alternative is that he's actually an idiot fundamentalist.

    It's unfortunate that this brand of economic self-harm has arisen in a governing party that promised growth, and at a time when our economic picture is less than rosy.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,364

    ...

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Apparently we need to ‘set an example’ to others.

    The 'example' being other countries surveying the wreckage from on top of their piles of money and thinking 'Thank Christ we didn't do that'.
    This is quite revealing of the mindset.
    Westminster Council are wanting to build a communal heating system for ex Council flats in Pimlico at the cost of £66k per flat, paid for by leaseholders. That is before the cost escalates out of control. By contrast an electric boiler and heating system for each flat would cost £5k.

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/20a51e29-a400-4132-9d06-bedbf4bfa8f6?shareToken=69deac43028573de83577bc28df21101
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,960
    edited November 12
    stodge said:

    This evening has just got better. Lineker gone.

    Strange - I really don't know why he generates such, well, dislike from a certain section of the public. He was a very good footballer who played well for his country.

    He does well on tv - I can only imagine it must be his politics and the fact he isn't a Conservative which seems to irritate, well, Conservatives.
    For many he is an icon of an overpaid BBC talking head, and therefore a symbol that they can use to have a go at the BBC - which is what it is really about.

    For me (on balance I will still defend the BBC), because he's a pompous wanker who thinks he can credibly intervene in politics without having a clue what he is talking about on the particular things he intervenes about. Like a less desperate Carol Vorderman.

    And for some, part of it is that he has tended to have a go at Conservative Governments (which he has because they were in power). I wonder if views will change once he starts having a go at our new Labour Government.

    If he wants to do politics, arguably being an owner of the "Rest is.." podcast network is a better place to start from, though he'll be open to the usual "media baron" criticisms.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,364

    Mr. Sandpit, Miliband wants the credit. The alternative is that he's actually an idiot fundamentalist.

    It's unfortunate that this brand of economic self-harm has arisen in a governing party that promised growth, and at a time when our economic picture is less than rosy.

    The government are not going to last. They will just fall apart in a couple of years time.

    "The international liberal order in which Keir Starmer and David Lammy insist Britain belongs is coming to an end. Labour confronts an enigma of arrival: the world it expected to join when it came to power does not exist."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/10/implosion-centrism-leaves-labour-unmapped-territory


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    No, we don't.
    But CCS is indeed a waste of money, and we massively overpay for nuclear.

    We need to do it right - but unfortunately it looks as though Labour will just repeat the Tories' mistakes.

    China installed more renewable than coal capacity last year, by some distance. They are also heading for net zero (despite making no such pledges).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    darkage said:

    ...

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Apparently we need to ‘set an example’ to others.

    The 'example' being other countries surveying the wreckage from on top of their piles of money and thinking 'Thank Christ we didn't do that'.
    This is quite revealing of the mindset.
    Westminster Council are wanting to build a communal heating system for ex Council flats in Pimlico at the cost of £66k per flat, paid for by leaseholders. That is before the cost escalates out of control. By contrast an electric boiler and heating system for each flat would cost £5k.

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/20a51e29-a400-4132-9d06-bedbf4bfa8f6?shareToken=69deac43028573de83577bc28df21101
    A good example of doing it wrong.

    And the iniquities of leasehold.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,563
    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Miliband is a total idiot and risks a backlash against what are sensible long-term goals, by trying to accomplish them in the short term regardless of cost. All while ignoring tidal and small nuclear, which have the potential to be revolutionary.

    Meanwhile China is still building more coal power stations, and the incoming US administration is going to be more interested in drilling for oil than building windmills.
    Miliband Derangement Syndrome. Current plans for carbon emission mitigation are in line with the fall in emissions achieved by the Conservative government.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,253

    ohnotnow said:

    According to Rear Admiral Timofhy Gallaudet, who is going to testify at the UAPs hearing on Wednesday, the United States government has evidence of "a new nature of reality."

    Rather interesting.

    He’s a crank who has filmed dust motes in his daughters bedroom and thinks they are tiny ufos.
    Judging from this interview I would say he seems very far from a crank, and more like an exceptionally conscientious, American Boy Scout type.

    https://youtu.be/rEYDY2EMm8c?si=DwFeuwQPX8D_VXVB
    Others hav3 a different view. I’ve seen things from more skeptical folk on Twtter about him.
    Avi Loeb, who has just finished studying nearly 500,000 sky objects for NASA, has just posted a rather interesting statement on his website.

    It's the statement he was going to give the Congress, as he wasn't called, and mentions "a new Copernican revolution in science.
    It reads a little like a plea for more research grants. Which is fair enough, but nothing out of the ordinary.
    I’ve been interested in the Fortean all my life. As I get older and maybe wiser I find my skepticism is getting worse. I used to think a lot of things were more likely real than I do now. In the eighties when I grew up and started to take an interest we thought that if only we had cameras on us all the time, then we would finally get the proof we need for everything weird. And yet now we have this, we still don’t have any better evidence, and worse we now have the ability to fake images and videos with ease.

    I’ve also been following UFO lore for decades and am very familiar with the history of the phenomenon. All the latest stuff in congress has been generated out of the Skinwalker ranch, by Robert Bigelow and friends. That’s it. If you want to see it for what it is just watch any of the endless TV shows about the place.

    I’ve dreamed of finding the yeti, or Nessie, but I’d settle for a living thylacine. I don’t believe in ghosts - it’s our minds creating things for me. I’m agnostic on poltergeists. Too many reports of stuff for it all to be faked, but I’m still not sure.

    UFOs and UAPs are mostly miss-identified things and misperception. Sometimes more than one event coincides and gets conflated, like In Todmorden with the dead man on the heap of coal, a missing herd of cows and a policeman thinking he saw a UFO.

    Other times flaps occur. My home, Warminster, saw a huge flap in the 60’s that lasted into the 70’s. Read ‘In Alien Heat’ for an excellent summary and find out what really was going on (not UFOs).

    So I hold out no hope that Congress will find anything. They will talk to grifters and people taken in by grifters. There is money to be made from this stuff. See the Skinwalker shit for a start.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_statues

    As wonderfully satirised in a Derry Girls episode.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,436
    The tragedy for Welby is that this will probably come to define his time as AoC. I don't think he's been particularly good in the role, but he will now be remembered for this.

    If he has said: "Yes, I made a drastic mistake. I resign," then he would, at least, be seen as an honourable man. It would also give others who might be in a position to make such mistakes pause for thought (*); a precedent.

    Not now.

    (*) Yeah, right.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,364

    Sandpit said:

    President-elect Donald Trump is expected to be name Florida congressman Michael Waltz as the next national security adviser, two sources familiar with the matter told CBS News

    Good good. Last week he said we need to be much harder on Russian sanctions and those who are buying his oil, while letting Ukraine do what they wish with American weapons, in order to force Putin to the negotiating table from a point of weakness. https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1856166839794933992
    And as a counterpoint to this, to show how the administration is going to go:

    Musky Baby replied "Interesting" to a post proclaiming: "Jeffrey Sachs explains how the US and NATO provoked the war in Ukraine."

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1856172877688570095
    Elon Musk undeniably played a huge role at the start of the conflict in supporting Ukraine through the provision of Starlink, and this has been ongoing, his position is just that he wants the war to end as a priority, and that he doesn't support a return to the 2014 borders - a legitimate position, even though it is one that you don't agree with.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837
    On the one hand good header; on the other hand it shouldn't need saying. Just look at what goes on today in 2024. Some bloke (bloke, mind) dresses up in gold and purple with a funny hat, as do other religions, and states that he has a direct line to some invisible being that only he can commune with and we as non-chosen must take his word for it.

    Absolutely stark raving bonkers but still going on.

    "Fear is the basis of religious dogma, as of so much else in human life".

    How right Russell was and is.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    This evening has just got better. Lineker gone.

    Strange - I really don't know why he generates such, well, dislike from a certain section of the public. He was a very good footballer who played well for his country.

    He does well on tv - I can only imagine it must be his politics and the fact he isn't a Conservative which seems to irritate, well, Conservatives.
    For many he is an icon of an overpaid BBC talking head, and therefore a symbol that they can use to have a go at the BBC - which is what it is really about.

    For me (on balance I will still defend the BBC), because he's a pompous wanker who thinks he can credibly intervene in politics without having a clue what he is talking about on the particular things he intervenes about. Like a less desperate Carol Vorderman.

    And for some, part of it is that he has tended to have a go at Conservative Governments (which he has because they were in power). I wonder if views will change once he starts having a go at our new Labour Government.

    If he wants to do politics, arguably being an owner of the "Rest is.." podcast network is a better place to start from, though he'll be open to the usual "media baron" criticisms.
    I think he's an excellent presenter. Do I think he should stay out of politics? Yes while he's such a high profile BBC figure because people will elide his views and the views of the BBC which is, lest we forget, a state broadcaster. Once he's gone he can jump on his high horse and ride to the rescue of anyone who needs it but until then he oughtn't to.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Miliband is a total idiot and risks a backlash against what are sensible long-term goals, by trying to accomplish them in the short term regardless of cost. All while ignoring tidal and small nuclear, which have the potential to be revolutionary.

    Meanwhile China is still building more coal power stations, and the incoming US administration is going to be more interested in drilling for oil than building windmills.
    In the US, though, the market is more favourable to renewables. They have far better conditions for solar power - the cheapest form of electoral generation by far - and huge onshore wind potential (which is why oil rich Texas builds so many turbines).

    Offshore wind will be hit hard by the new administration, obviously.

    Milliband is answering the wrong question. It's not 'how soon can we get to net zero'; it's 'what the cheapest and most reliable way of getting there ?'

    Concentrate on the second question, and he would get far more support.
    And would scrap most of the CCS spend.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270
    CNN reporting that the puppy killer has been given head of homeland security !

    Should fit in perfectly with the Trump cabinet , cruel and a total nutjob .
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 468
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Miliband is a total idiot and risks a backlash against what are sensible long-term goals, by trying to accomplish them in the short term regardless of cost. All while ignoring tidal and small nuclear, which have the potential to be revolutionary.

    Meanwhile China is still building more coal power stations, and the incoming US administration is going to be more interested in drilling for oil than building windmills.
    Miliband Derangement Syndrome. Current plans for carbon emission mitigation are in line with the fall in emissions achieved by the Conservative government.
    https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/china-coal-plants
    Interesting article on Chinese coal plants, appears the issue could be far more nuanced. Worth reading for those who like getting enraged about planning as well as net zero.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    darkage said:

    Mr. Sandpit, Miliband wants the credit. The alternative is that he's actually an idiot fundamentalist.

    It's unfortunate that this brand of economic self-harm has arisen in a governing party that promised growth, and at a time when our economic picture is less than rosy.

    The government are not going to last. They will just fall apart in a couple of years time.

    "The international liberal order in which Keir Starmer and David Lammy insist Britain belongs is coming to an end. Labour confronts an enigma of arrival: the world it expected to join when it came to power does not exist."

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/10/implosion-centrism-leaves-labour-unmapped-territory


    By what mechanism, outside if the next general election ?
  • I find little to disagree with on investing in offshore wind.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    nico679 said:

    CNN reporting that the puppy killer has been given head of homeland security !

    Should fit in perfectly with the Trump cabinet , cruel and a total nutjob .

    They're shoooting the dogs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    Saudi Crown Prince calls for Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank and an end to Israeli attacks on Iran and Lebanon

    "Saudi crown prince says Israel committing 'genocide' in Gaza - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8x5570514o
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854

    The tragedy for Welby is that this will probably come to define his time as AoC. I don't think he's been particularly good in the role, but he will now be remembered for this.

    If he has said: "Yes, I made a drastic mistake. I resign," then he would, at least, be seen as an honourable man. It would also give others who might be in a position to make such mistakes pause for thought (*); a precedent.

    Not now.

    (*) Yeah, right.

    It would be a clear demonstration of the repentance that his church preaches.

    Clinging on looks rather the opposite.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    UK unemployment increases as wage growth slows

    "Unemployment rises as pay growth slows again - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8dz3n0z71o
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,741
    Surely the sensible solution is a job swap between Gary Lineker and the Archbishop of Canterbury?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Fishing said:

    Keir Starmer will announce a stringent new climate goal for the UK on Tuesday, the Guardian can reveal, with a target in line with the advice given to the government by its scientists and independent advisers.

    The UK will pledge to cut emissions by 81% compared with 1990 levels by 2035, a target in line with the recommendations of the Climate Change Committee.

    The goal would be achieved by decarbonising the power sector and through a massive expansion of offshore wind, as well as through investments in carbon capture and storage and nuclear energy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/keir-starmer-to-unveil-ambitious-new-uk-climate-goal-cop29-ndc

    Complete masochistic lunacy. We already have some of the most expensive energy in the world, now Free Gear and Mad Ed want to make our position even worse. Households will be shafted and nobody will want to make anything here. The Chinese are building dozens of new coal power stations and Trump will take America in the opposite direction so the US will boom further as a result. So their decision won't have the slightest effect on climate change. But our moronic government will at least be able to float on a cloud of smug.

    We need to scrap Net Zero madness while we still have an economy left.
    Miliband is a total idiot and risks a backlash against what are sensible long-term goals, by trying to accomplish them in the short term regardless of cost. All while ignoring tidal and small nuclear, which have the potential to be revolutionary.

    Meanwhile China is still building more coal power stations, and the incoming US administration is going to be more interested in drilling for oil than building windmills.
    Miliband Derangement Syndrome. Current plans for carbon emission mitigation are in line with the fall in emissions achieved by the Conservative government.
    Well indeed.
    The daft CCS plan was originally Rishi's.
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