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Time to parse and over analyse every comment – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited November 5
    One thing that makes me slightly sceptical about the polls is that they have Harris ahead by only about 4.9% in New Hampshire compared to 7.3% at the 2020 election. I don't really believe it'll be that close in NH, so maybe the same sort of error exists in polls for other states. (It's plausible Trump might trim the margin back very slightly to maybe 6.5%).

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/new-hampshire/
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Interesting analysis of the Selzer poll by an Iowan from abortion, tariffs, Tim Walz, and child labour laws perspectives. And the fact that many GOP voters in IA died during COVID due to the Governor refusing to mandate mask-wearing. The first time I have heard that argument deployed recently:

    https://x.com/ndkirschmann/status/1853321833266761924

    The covid thing is horseshit imho.

    A five second google gives a death total in Iowa of 10K

    2million voters.
    Fair enough. Just 0.5%
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The stars seem slowly to be aligning for Harris, as election day approaches.

    A week to 10 days ago it looked like Trump had it won to me. But he's been tired, low wattage, even more incoherent to the point of almost incomprehensible and Harris has finished incredibly strongly. Now I really don't know. Has it tipped back enough? I hope so.
    Yes, I would certainly have been with you there David. But - as you say - the sheer difference in body language from the two candidates is quite startling. And body language is hard to fake. Harris is glowing. Does she think she’s won?

    Hmm.
    Her appearance on SNL was one of the highlights of the campaign. It beamed confidence.
    Trump is NOT happy about that

    And Vance is calling her trash tonight

    They look like sore losers at this point
    It's OK for Trump and for Vance to call Harris " and those around her" trash, but it is not OK for Biden to call people surrounding Trump " trash". The one critique is unacceptable to the networks, the radio stations and the troll farm that is X, but not so much as a whimper if Republicans make the same insult.

    I was fascinated by Trump's plan to put Harris in a ring with Mike Tyson. Very post apocalyptic, very Beyond Thunderdome.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380
    edited November 5
    Andy_JS said:

    One thing that makes me slightly sceptical about the polls is that they have Harris ahead by only about 4.9% in New Hampshire compared to 7.3% at the 2020 election. I don't really believe it'll be that close in NH, so maybe the same sort of error exists in polls for other states. (It's plausible Trump might trim the margin back very slightly to maybe 6.5%).

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/new-hampshire/

    I looked into this. The numbers are skewed by Praecones Analytica polls https://nhjournal.com/poll-shocker-trump-leads-harris-in-new-hampshire/ , who have Trump and Harris virtually tied. Their people are here: http://www.praecones.com/people.html . They are political scientists, not pollsters per se, and that may explain their different results. Problem is...I can't tell if they are right or wrong.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    biggles said:

    CNN is reporting that RFK Jr has said Trump will remove fluoride from their drinking water.

    Am I missing something? Can any of our US correspondents explain whether fluoride is the issue of the hour in the U.S….

    So following on from a trade crisis from tariffs added to imported goods and services, the USA has an RFK tooth decay crisis which in turn leads to a heart disease crisis.

    Perhaps it's a Camelot plot to rid the nation of hygiene -free rednecks.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    biggles said:

    CNN is reporting that RFK Jr has said Trump will remove fluoride from their drinking water.

    Am I missing something? Can any of our US correspondents explain whether fluoride is the issue of the hour in the U.S….

    So following on from a trade crisis from tariffs added to imported goods and services, the USA has an RFK tooth decay crisis which in turn leads to a heart disease crisis.

    Perhaps it's a Camelot plot to rid the nation of hygiene -free rednecks.
    You’ve missed the infectious disease disaster, when no kid is allowed vaccines and the country loses herd immunity to all previously conquered diseases.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One thing that makes me slightly sceptical about the polls is that they have Harris ahead by only about 4.9% in New Hampshire compared to 7.3% at the 2020 election. I don't really believe it'll be that close in NH, so maybe the same sort of error exists in polls for other states. (It's plausible Trump might trim the margin back very slightly to maybe 6.5%).

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/new-hampshire/

    I looked into this. The numbers are skewed by Praecones Analytica polls https://nhjournal.com/poll-shocker-trump-leads-harris-in-new-hampshire/ , who have Trump and Harris virtually tied. Their people are here: http://www.praecones.com/people.html . They are political scientists, not pollsters per se, and that may explain their different results. Problem is...I can't tell if they are right or wrong.
    The methodology is wrong even if the result prediction is accurate. They are playing a game of chance.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    kle4 said:

    I am staking my life on it now.

    Kamala Harris will win.

    What site let you stake that, and what do you get if you win?
    I just caught myself designing a cryptoeconomic system for this. It's interesting because when you talk about decentralized prediction markets people say, "couldn't that be used to fund assassinations" and you could use that precise property to make the market work.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited November 5

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The stars seem slowly to be aligning for Harris, as election day approaches.

    A week to 10 days ago it looked like Trump had it won to me. But he's been tired, low wattage, even more incoherent to the point of almost incomprehensible and Harris has finished incredibly strongly. Now I really don't know. Has it tipped back enough? I hope so.
    Yes, I would certainly have been with you there David. But - as you say - the sheer difference in body language from the two candidates is quite startling. And body language is hard to fake. Harris is glowing. Does she think she’s won?

    Hmm.
    Her appearance on SNL was one of the highlights of the campaign. It beamed confidence.
    Trump is NOT happy about that

    And Vance is calling her trash tonight

    They look like sore losers at this point
    It's OK for Trump and for Vance to call Harris " and those around her" trash, but it is not OK for Biden to call people surrounding Trump " trash". The one critique is unacceptable to the networks, the radio stations and the troll farm that is X, but not so much as a whimper if Republicans make the same insult.

    I was fascinated by Trump's plan to put Harris in a ring with Mike Tyson. Very post apocalyptic, very Beyond Thunderdome.
    One poster on here was complaining that Biden suggested that convicted felon Donald Trump be locked up, and yet didn't utter a peep when it was Trump doing the proposing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890

    biggles said:

    tyson said:

    Without sounding hyperbolic, tomorrow feels like the most consequential election in my lifetime..and I say this as someone who had to make life changing decisions following the Brexit vote...

    if Trump wins, I'm done with politics. If Harris wins, then the world will feel that much more a better place...and hopefully, the Republicans can choose someone next time who doesn't scare the living shit out of me...

    My worry is that Trump has now infected his party such that even if he loses, the next Republican President (and there will be one) will still embolden Putin or his successor and trigger a global trade war.

    We need him to not just lose, but lose so badly that the Democrats take the House and Senate on the coattails. And that seems inconceivable.
    I know people might think I'm a broken record on this, but how do you see Putin taking Crimea and invading Donbas under Obama and then launching a full-scale invasion under Biden and conclude that Trump is the problem?
    I am not sure there is even a correlation in terms of the invasion of 2022 Have you any evidence other than the convenience of dates that Putin held off either in deference to or in fear of Trump?

    What I think might be true is Trump is not best equipped as an honest broker between Putin and Zelensky.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    As an aside Nevada will be the last of the lower 48 to begin counting. We'll likely be 95+% reported for the other swing states by the time Nevada announces even a single vote. From 538: "No results will be reported until the last voter in line has voted, which is usually hours after the official close of polls."

    And Nevada polls don't close until 10pm Eastern, so it will probable 1am Eastern (6am London) before we start to see results come through.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812

    I am staking my life on it now.

    Kamala Harris will win.

    Don't you need a life to stake it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited November 5
    Rather amazingly the Greens failed to get on the ballot in New York state. No other minor party candidates managed it either, so it's a straight fight between Harris and Trump in the one state where one might have expected more candidates.

    https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2024/06/13/green-party-s-jill-stein-won-t-make-2024-ballot-in-new-york
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812

    kle4 said:

    I am staking my life on it now.

    Kamala Harris will win.

    What site let you stake that, and what do you get if you win?
    I just caught myself designing a cryptoeconomic system for this. It's interesting because when you talk about decentralized prediction markets people say, "couldn't that be used to fund assassinations" and you could use that precise property to make the market work.
    Elab. I love this sort of stuff.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,271
    A message of hope:

    https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1853571107439399155

    We are building the biggest and broadest coalition in American Political History. This includes record-breaking numbers of Arab and Muslim Voters in Michigan who want PEACE. They know Kamala and her warmonger Cabinet will invade the Middle East, get millions of Muslims killed, and start World War III. VOTE TRUMP, AND BRING BACK PEACE!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Interesting fact: it looks like about a million more people are registered to vote in New York state in 2024 compared to 2020 despite the fact the total population of the state is about half a million lower than it was then.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting fact: it looks like about a million more people are registered to vote in New York state in 2024 compared to 2020 despite the fact the total population of the state is about half a million lower than it was then.

    Automatic voter registration? Dem states have been making it so you get registered automatically when you renew your driving license. I guess removing a hurdle for low-motivation voters with driving licenses will help Trump in the current environment...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,870
    Economics data looks good for Harris in the blue wall. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin all have inflation rates below the US average and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have unemployment rates below the US average too.

    Nevada has the worst unemployment rate in the US though and looks to be heading for Trump. As does Georgia which has inflation running above the US average
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    Andy_JS said:

    Interesting fact: it looks like about a million more people are registered to vote in New York state in 2024 compared to 2020 despite the fact the total population of the state is about half a million lower than it was then.

    Automatic voter registration? Dem states have been making it so you get registered automatically when you renew your driving license. I guess removing a hurdle for low-motivation voters with driving licenses will help Trump in the current environment...
    Funnily enough, in Montana, the opposite measure may just help Jon Tester hold on to his Senate Seat.

    The Republican legislature passed measures that purged people without current ID from the electoral rolls. Unfortunately, it appears they have purged a whole bunch of libertarian Republicans who weren't very good at keeping their driving licenses up to date.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,271
    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited November 5
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    She is if these figures mean what they appear to mean, but I don't understand them enough to be able to say that. As we know there are all sorts of ways of presenting data to make it seem like it's telling a particular story when it isn't really.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    That's simply not true of True

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Eh?

    I posted the urban numbers for Atlanta, vs the rest of Georgia, and Atlanta is coming out much more than rural counties
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380
    edited November 5
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    She is if these figures mean what they appear to mean, but I don't understand them enough to be able to say that. As we know there are all sorts of ways of presenting data to make it seem like it's telling a particular story when it isn't really.
    Nevada found that the urban vote just didn't turn up. This was so dramatic Ralston had to invent a set of invisible voters to predict a Kamala win. I don't believe him. If that's reflected across the swing states, the Dems will have to get millions of people out on last day who didn't bother to vote earlier. How do they propose to do that?

    Fuck. I don't know how to fix this.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The stars seem slowly to be aligning for Harris, as election day approaches.

    A week to 10 days ago it looked like Trump had it won to me. But he's been tired, low wattage, even more incoherent to the point of almost incomprehensible and Harris has finished incredibly strongly. Now I really don't know. Has it tipped back enough? I hope so.
    Yes, I would certainly have been with you there David. But - as you say - the sheer difference in body language from the two candidates is quite startling. And body language is hard to fake. Harris is glowing. Does she think she’s won?

    Hmm.
    Her appearance on SNL was one of the highlights of the campaign. It beamed confidence.
    Trump is NOT happy about that

    And Vance is calling her trash tonight

    They look like sore losers at this point
    It's OK for Trump and for Vance to call Harris " and those around her" trash, but it is not OK for Biden to call people surrounding Trump " trash". The one critique is unacceptable to the networks, the radio stations and the troll farm that is X, but not so much as a whimper if Republicans make the same insult.

    I was fascinated by Trump's plan to put Harris in a ring with Mike Tyson. Very post apocalyptic, very Beyond Thunderdome.
    My money is on Harris in that fight. She carries a gun...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Look, it might be true.

    But we have the actual number from the Georgia Secretary of State on turnout by county. And the big urban Democratic strongholds are turning out more than the rural ones.

    Now, it may be that the delta is less than in 2020. But given that Fulton/DeKalb/Cobb (i.e. Atlanta) averaging about 60% right now, that doesn't seem *very* likely.

    Likewise, the overall headline numbers don't make an enormous amount of sense, given we're at around 1.5m turnout from those three counties alone. You would need to see staggering drops in other urban areas.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935

    Over the past couple of weeks,I have frequently felt that a lot of the 'analysis' from the Dem side - abortion rights will bring over lots of R women, Trump's turning people off with his weirdness, young people are feeling energised - has smacked a lot of the 'poll unskewing' that we saw from the Rep side in 2012: a bif of a desperate hunt to find something to give them hope. While the US economy is improving, there has been a perception that it's bad, and it did feel like a 'change' election. I was still holding on to hope, but it was hard. However...

    There are four people I've learned to really trust on their areas of expertise, in detailed aspects of US elections:
    Dave Wasserman for on-the-night race calls
    Michael Macdonald for early voting
    Ann Selzer for Iowa
    Jon Ralston for Nevada.

    I've been following Ralston since 2012 at least, and Selzer since 2004. Iowa never seemed in contention this year, but if Selzer says it is, then I take her over a whole legion of pollsters and analysts saying otherwise. I thought that the wonky economy in Nevada, plus the demographics, meant that Nevada was a likely loss for the Dems, but if Ralston says otherwise, albeit by a tiny margin, then I have to trust him.

    If Iowa goes Dem, then Trump has no chance in Wisconsin or Michigan. And maybe Walz will help there too.
    If Nevada, the flakiest bit of the southwest, stays Dem, then Arizona stays Dem far more easily.
    The mechanisms for the a Dem win cited by Selzer apply elsewhere too - women (including R women) going heavily Dem, undecideds moving D, lots of new voters (the other day, 1 in 8 early voters in Detroit were on-the-day registrants!).
    And while I thought initially the garbage island 'joke' was trivial, it turns out it's not been seen that way


    So, I think Harris wins IA (Selzer); MI and WI (because of IA); NV (Ralston); AZ (Ralston and Latino), PA (Puerto Rican and massive GOTV from Dems - they canvassed in four hours on Saturday the total Rep target for the whole campaign); NC (women, undecideds, hurricane effects), NE-02, and FL. Yes I think the Dems win Florida.
    Trump gains GA. It was insanely narrow last time, the reported gains for Trump among young black men are apparently real, and the Abrams GOTV machine has by all accounts fallen apart.

    Final EC score: 341-197. (edited, I forgot to switch NC on the 270towin map!)

    In the Senate, the Dems lose WV and MT. I'd love to see Tester hold on, but I can't quite stretch that far. They hold everywhere else including OH. They gain FL (it's those Latinos again, plus Rick Scott is a crap campaigner, and widely hated. Oh, and hurricanes). Osborn beats Fischer in NE, but keeps his word and doesn't caucus with either side.
    Senate finishes 50 (D+I)-49 (R) -1 (I).

    Dems retake the House.

    I was reading this with great interest....until you said Dems would take Florida
    At best, Florida is on knife-edge for the Republicans.

    Midway, they just hold it for Trump - just - but lose the Senate seat.

    But quite possibly, one shit-talking comic loses them both. Or two, if you count Trump.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited November 5
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million have already come in from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,271
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Is there any way of filtering by urbanicity and limiting it to swing states?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    Nevertheless, assuming the numbers are directionally right, it is definitely not good news for the Democrats that Urban and Suburban are down, while Rural is up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,271
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Is there any way of filtering by urbanicity and limiting it to swing states?
    You can select "Battleground: President: from the view dropdown:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Is there any way of filtering by urbanicity and limiting it to swing states?
    You can select "Battleground: President: from the view dropdown:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0
    Interestingly, that shows the Dems leading the Republicans on modelled votes in the battleground states.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    BTW, the Nevada data looks surprisingly good for the Dems on those numbers: suburban + urban is 900k vs 135k for rural. (And rural is down about 25%, while suburban is only down 15%.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    If you think about it, that means that 28% more women have voted than men. That's an insane gap.

    Now, of course, if those voters are all conservative rural women, it *might* be different. But the gender gap between Democrats and Republicans is - in general - enormous.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    Not to mention that in PA the registered Dem votes outnumber the registered GOP votes by over 400K, so you have to think much of the 950K Dem votes come from Philly and burbs.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Is there any way of filtering by urbanicity and limiting it to swing states?
    You can select "Battleground: President: from the view dropdown:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0
    Thank you. So this link https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0 gives us this:

    Urbanicity 2020 2022 2024
    Rural 6,409,644 (43.6%) 3,737,742 (24.1%) 6,220,346 (37.9%)
    Suburban 7,996,782 (50.0%) 4,469,193 (27.8%) 6,681,045 (39.1%)
    Urban 6,200,912 (49.6%) 2,936,187 (25.5%) 3,804,808 (31.2%)
    Unknown 0 (0.0%) 0 (0.0%) 0 (0.0%)
    Total 20,607,338 (47.7%) 11,143,122 (25.9%) 16,706,199 (36.6%)

    Which lines up with the tweet

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,271
    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, the Nevada data looks surprisingly good for the Dems on those numbers: suburban + urban is 900k vs 135k for rural. (And rural is down about 25%, while suburban is only down 15%.)

    There are some interesting variantions. I'd say North Carolina looks good for Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    edited November 5
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    If you think about it, that means that 28% more women have voted than men. That's an insane gap.

    Now, of course, if those voters are all conservative rural women, it *might* be different. But the gender gap between Democrats and Republicans is - in general - enormous.
    That's the election, right there.

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    If so, Harris leads by 16% in that 56%

    Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8%.

    Not even close.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited November 5
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Is there any way of filtering by urbanicity and limiting it to swing states?
    You can select "Battleground: President: from the view dropdown:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0
    Thank you. So this link https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&view_type=PresBS&vote_mode=0 gives us this:

    Urbanicity 2020 2022 2024
    Rural 6,409,644 (43.6%) 3,737,742 (24.1%) 6,220,346 (37.9%)
    Suburban 7,996,782 (50.0%) 4,469,193 (27.8%) 6,681,045 (39.1%)
    Urban 6,200,912 (49.6%) 2,936,187 (25.5%) 3,804,808 (31.2%)
    Unknown 0 (0.0%) 0 (0.0%) 0 (0.0%)
    Total 20,607,338 (47.7%) 11,143,122 (25.9%) 16,706,199 (36.6%)

    Which lines up with the tweet

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936
    It does, but it's also fundamentally misleading to miss out the suburban voters who outnumber rural and urban voters.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    To further expand on this - if early voting rural women skew white, this is likely not good for Harris.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    Women vote to the left of men almost everywhere, though.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    That may be an issue in New Hampshire (as I pointed out), but I don't see it being a priority over abortion. I think the main drivers are abortion, immigration and inflation, with trans some way behind. I really wish I'd done that article... :(
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    Women vote to the left of men almost everywhere, though.
    Black women certainly do...98% for Biden!

    But Trump won white women both times before.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Has "ours to lose" changed meaning or some such. I mean if Starmer had come out with this prior to the GE it'd generally have been seen as being almost overconfident
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416

    GIN1138 said:

    What is the PB consensus on Kemi's shadow cabinet and particularly Mel Stride as shadow chancellor?

    Nobody gives a fly f - especially the eve before the US election to end all elections.

    Whatever genius gave the tory party their leadership timetable needs to consider another career.

    Sir Graham Brady, old lady, has done a book in time for Christmas.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited November 5
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    Women vote to the left of men almost everywhere, though.
    Of course in the UK women used to be more Tory than men until about 1992, whereas that hasn't been true in the USA for much longer (if at all). There was a sort of "working-class housewife" effect going on, where the wife of a factory worker in somewhere like Birmingham Yardley would be quite likely to vote Tory even though her husband would never dream of doing so. It's almost totally disappeared now with the demise of that type of family arrangement.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380
    @williamglenn, @MartinVegas, @MarqueeMark , @rcs1000

    OK, to summarise: urban are not turning out in the swing states. But of those that are turning out, they are predominately women. If those women prioritise immigration and inflation, they will win it for Trump. If those women prioritise abortion, they will win it for Kamela.

    Any ideas, gang?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Re Georgia.

    I have run the numbers. I have downloaded the 2024 turnout data at a county level, and applied the same weighting of Dem v Republican as occurred in every single county.

    And it's good news (just) for Trump: assuming no difference from gender voting patterns* he wins 50.4 to 49.6 according to where the votes have been cast so far.

    * Which is a big caveat
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024
    Ummm:

    I'm not seeing anyway to get urban/rural splits out of that website. Or indeed, county level data to enable me to compare it to the releases from the Georgia SoS.

    I also think a total of 3.8 million early votes across Pittsburg, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Reno, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Detroit, Madison, Charlotte, Raleigh and more seems laughably low, given that close to 1.5 million will come from Atlanta, and there are 5 million people in the Phoenix metropolitan area alone.

    I think someone has linked to Target Smart and just made up some numbers.
    Filter by urbanicity:

    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?calc_type=turnoutPercent&comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=[{"key":"urbanicity","value":"All"}]&vote_mode=0
    Thanks:

    Looking at Georgia (below), gives somewhat more plausible numbers:



    Albeit it is worth remembering that Georgia is at 55% turnout already, not the 47% listed. So I'm not sure where TargetSmart gets its numbers from.

    It's also pretty misleading to just compare Urban with Rural and miss out Suburban.
    For me, the big number in Georgia is gender.

    Women 56%

    Men 43.8%

    Non-binary 0.2%

    With 55.6% turnout.

    Unless those lines today are solidly male, Harris has Georgia. And its not even close. 12.2% gender difference in early voting. That is the number to look at. Woman are voting massively more than men. And that isn't great news for the pussy-grabber in chief.
    I'd caution against the assumption that women are automatically going to win this for Harris. I hate to say it, but we've been here before. The Republicans are running extremely hard on anti-trans ads aimed at women, with talking heads saying "I don't want men in my daughter's changing rooms".

    I'm not saying it's going to work - it could just be the best they've got to try and peel some women away - but I've been disappointed in the past (c.f. 2016 and 2020 where Trump won white women)
    Women vote to the left of men almost everywhere, though.
    Black women certainly do...98% for Biden!

    But Trump won white women both times before.
    Sure.

    But white men went for Trump massively more than white women.

    The point is that in almost every demographic, women vote to the left of men. Therefore if somewhere that is knife edge (like Georgia) has significantly more women voting than men, you have to take it into account.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    viewcode said:

    @williamglenn, @MartinVegas, @MarqueeMark , @rcs1000

    OK, to summarise: urban are not turning out in the swing states. But of those that are turning out, they are predominately women. If those women prioritise immigration and inflation, they will win it for Trump. If those women prioritise abortion, they will win it for Kamela.

    Any ideas, gang?

    Every single poll we've had suggests that women will vote to the left of men again in 2024 - and my guess is that it will be by at least 10%, and maybe more like 15%.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    viewcode said:

    @williamglenn, @MartinVegas, @MarqueeMark , @rcs1000

    OK, to summarise: urban are not turning out in the swing states. But of those that are turning out, they are predominately women. If those women prioritise immigration and inflation, they will win it for Trump. If those women prioritise abortion, they will win it for Kamela.

    Any ideas, gang?

    Except Nevada. In Nevada, it's the urban and suburban areas that are turning out, while rural is not.

    Which is the exact opposite of what we'd expect given data on voting by party registration.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,380
    I have to go to bed folks: it's 3:31am, I've just finished work and I have a dental appt in the morning.

    (@rcs1000, can you do me a favour? Can you please do that analysis for Virginia so I can find out how much shit I'm in?)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    HYUFD said:

    Trump calls Farage 'the big winner of the last UK general election' at his Pennsylvania rally tonight which Farage is attending

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1853558745298538503

    Four million votes, which is more than the LibDems. Are they still in favour of PR btw?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    viewcode said:

    I have to go to bed folks: it's 3:31am, I've just finished work and I have a dental appt in the morning.

    (@rcs1000, can you do me a favour? Can you please do that analysis for Virginia so I can find out how much shit I'm in?)

    I don't know if Virgina releases county level early voting data. But I will look.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    viewcode said:

    I have to go to bed folks: it's 3:31am, I've just finished work and I have a dental appt in the morning.

    (@rcs1000, can you do me a favour? Can you please do that analysis for Virginia so I can find out how much shit I'm in?)

    VA always has the GOP ahead (Considerably) early, the more urban eastern bit is sloooow. I've seen the tick go up for the blue team whilst they're still behind there lol
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    If we are seeing a surge in women voting, which I believe we are from the data from those states that report gender splits in early voting, there is only one issue which is powering that surge: abortion. Sure, women worry about the economy and inflation, and some/a few worry about transgender issues. But these are not issues which are driving new women voters to the ballot box. Only abortion is doing that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    MJW said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Obligatory health warning, but this is interesting:

    https://x.com/vickiefornyc/status/1853511569851982213

    Just spoke to a Democrat consultant friend on the ground in a swing state who told me I could repeat some of what we discussed. Here's what I can tell you; take it with a grain of salt if you like but I think he's being straight with me.

    Nobody really thinks Kamala is going to win at this point. Canvassing is going poorly almost everywhere, with few exceptions. The party is getting their high-follower influencer accounts to push out motivational stories just to keep morale up and get them over the finish line with some dignity, but it's not great. The Iowa poll was good to give a shot of adrenaline to volunteers, but nobody important believes those numbers are real.

    Of all the swing states, they're hoping Michigan comes through and possibly a late-night miracle in PA, but nobody is counting on either of them. They don't think Trump is actually going to flip VA or NH, but the fact that they've even entered the conversation is indicative of how bad things could potentially turn out.

    The early vote counts are just beyond what they expected to see for Republican turnout, and has Dem strategists rethinking whether it was a good idea to make such a big push to broaden early voting in the first place. Republican low-propensity voters are activated in a way nobody really expected and the polls didn't capture it. Yes it's possible those early Republicans broke Democrat in an unprecedented way, but very unlikely.

    The campaign has switched entirely to 'woman vs. man' messaging, as liberal white women are the only reliable voter bloc they can even identify at this point.

    Priority now is saving some downballot races and flipping the house so the night isn't a total embarrassment for Democrats.

    Like I said, take this all with a grain of salt as this is secondhand information, but this is what I was told, and I think it tracks with other things we know.

    Guys, I love you all to bits but this sounds plausible and matches Nevada. Can somebody provide rebuttal that doesn't revolve around her characteristics?
    That it seems to suggest the Democrats have no chance, and know it, in every swing state (merely 'hoping' they win Michigan).

    The possibility of one side or the other sweeping all the swing states has been raised as possible, but the idea that it is a well know fact among Democrat consultants such that no one genuinely thinks they can win any of them does not strike me as very plausible. Even if it happens I don't buy that 'nobody' thinks they might win even a single one.

    I discount nothing, but the presented story is not very plausible in itself - notably I responded with no knowledge of who the person was and judged it on its own merits, accepting the possibility it was right.
    This is it. It has a confidence that just isn't plausible and doesn't chime with almost everything else we're hearing. Which is that it's either incredibly close or there are reasons for both sides to believe things are favouring them that polling isn't showing up.

    It might turn out to correlate with the actual result. But it's useless as a predictive data point as it contradicts everything else we know - even from those predicting a Trump win, who admit things are close but believe he will get over the line. And it comes from a source we have every reason to believe is untrustworthy.

    I'd also add that of the Dems were really in such a deep hole they were despairingly giving up, we'd be hearing it from far more reliable sources given party grandees aren't exactly reticent about crititicising those in rival factions.

    Never mind Dem grandees, surely we'd be hearing from the myriad Labour activists out there.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416

    kyf_100 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Google's automatic AI information is making mistakes.

    I typed "Maryland 2016 population". It answered: "The population of Maryland in 2016 was 616,958 in the city of Baltimore."

    That figure certainly isn't the population of Maryland in 2016, and looks more like the figure for Baltimore itself.

    The difference with you and the AI true believers is that you are capable of using your own judgement as a check and balance on the drivel it chucks out daily.
    I used Google's AI and similar competitors like Perplexity to run a search on myself. It was startlingly inaccurate about almost everything. Full gell-mann amnesia in effect for those who still trust it.

    https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/
    I have otherwise rational and wisely sceptical friends who seem to treat LLM output as fact. As you say, it’s riddled with errors. The reason why is simple: it’s source material, the internet, is also riddled with errors.
    See the reddit campaign to make Angus Steakhouse's steak sandwich the best meal in London.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    edited November 5
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Georgia.

    I have run the numbers. I have downloaded the 2024 turnout data at a county level, and applied the same weighting of Dem v Republican as occurred in every single county.

    And it's good news (just) for Trump: assuming no difference from gender voting patterns* he wins 50.4 to 49.6 according to where the votes have been cast so far.

    * Which is a big caveat

    Shit, hang on, had 16% not 11% split for women. Let me recalculate - but it will be something like a 150,000 firewall for the Dems!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    I have to go to bed folks: it's 3:31am, I've just finished work and I have a dental appt in the morning.

    (@rcs1000, can you do me a favour? Can you please do that analysis for Virginia so I can find out how much shit I'm in?)

    VA always has the GOP ahead (Considerably) early, the more urban eastern bit is sloooow. I've seen the tick go up for the blue team whilst they're still behind there lol
    Yep. The western rural areas tend to report first, then Tidewater (Norfolk, Portsmouth, Newport News, Hampton Roads, Virginia Beach), and then, way after the rest, NoVa reports. No idea why it takes so long.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited November 5
    The polls show a small swing to Trump in Virginia and a small swing to the Dems in North Carolina. Difficult to understand why that might be, ie. that combination. Maybe the Democrats have slightly overperformed in Virginia in recent elections and this is a correction.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    Ten minutes to the race that stops a nation – the Melbourne Cup.

    I've had a fiver on outsider, The Map, in the unlikely hope she can bounce back from her disappointing last race. Tbh, I was too tired to check all the unfamiliar antipodean form.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    So much data on all these voters, yet it still takes so damn long to count the actual votes!

    Happy US Election Day everyone!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    Trump said he was doing four campaign rallies yesterday, so I'd give him a pass on looking tired.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Andy_JS said:

    The polls show a small swing to Trump in Virginia and a small swing to the Dems in North Carolina. Difficult to understand why that might be, ie. that combination. Maybe the Democrats have slightly overperformed in Virginia in recent elections and this is a correction.

    For NC, immigration of college degree types into the fast-growing Research Triangle area; emigration of GOP voters from Charlotte to suburbs across the state line in SC (Fort Mill, Rock Hill)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    GIN1138 said:

    The Star front page tomorrow is close to giving Kier "The Lettuce" treatment? 👀

    We can put the Daily Star down as a maybe.



  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    edited November 5
    OK, fixed my glitch.

    Here are the likely votes cast already in Georgia, as best we can tell.

    Using the latest ABC gender splits:

    "The final ABC News/Ipsos poll before Election Day, released on Sunday, found the gender gap among all likely voters to be 16 points. Harris had a 11-point advantage among women, 53% to 42%, while Trump had a 5-point advantage among men, 50% to 45%."

    If so, Harris leads by 11% in that 56% of female votes cast

    Trump leads by 5% in that 43.8% of male votes cast.

    2.257 million women have early voted (fact)

    Dem @ 55.5 = 1.252m female Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 44.5 = 1.004m Republican votes cast

    1.765 million men have early voted (fact)

    Dem @ 47.5 = 0.838m male Democrat votes cast
    Rep @ 52.5 = 0.926m male Republican votes cast

    Democrat total votes cast: 1.252 + 0.838 = 2.090 million
    Republican total votes cast 1.004 + 0.926 = 1.930 million

    So there is a 160,000 Dem firewall after 56% of the electorate have already early voted

    Reminder: Biden won Georgia in 2020 by just 11,779 votes

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Sandpit said:

    So much data on all these voters, yet it still takes so damn long to count the actual votes!

    Happy US Election Day everyone!

    We'll know the result for Florida within two hours of polls closing. Georgia, unless it's very close, likewise.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So much data on all these voters, yet it still takes so damn long to count the actual votes!

    Happy US Election Day everyone!

    We'll know the result for Florida within two hours of polls closing. Georgia, unless it's very close, likewise.
    By contrast, we might not know the results of Arizona or Nevada for weeks.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    Trump said he was doing four campaign rallies yesterday, so I'd give him a pass on looking tired.

    Trump and Vance have both been on three or four flights a day for weeks now. Harris and Walz not quite so many rallies but still an insane schedule.

    Someone will probably do a FlightRadar24 analysis of the four planes in the next couple of days, but they’re definitely all in line for the platinum air miles card!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416

    Ten minutes to the race that stops a nation – the Melbourne Cup.

    I've had a fiver on outsider, The Map, in the unlikely hope she can bounce back from her disappointing last race. Tbh, I was too tired to check all the unfamiliar antipodean form.

    Wrong outsider. Knights Choice won; 268 on Betfair!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672
    Are rallies for the faithful really the best use of a presidential candidates time?

    In the UK we'd do a mix of interviews, soapboxes, meet the voters and battlebus stuff across a variety of constituencies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So much data on all these voters, yet it still takes so damn long to count the actual votes!

    Happy US Election Day everyone!

    We'll know the result for Florida within two hours of polls closing. Georgia, unless it's very close, likewise.
    Yes Florida learned their lesson 24 years ago, and don’t want their state to be a national embarrassment again!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    Presumably Donald Trump's final rally. He has yet to come on stage in Michigan.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Wj6CCEjUk
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175

    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    The stars seem slowly to be aligning for Harris, as election day approaches.

    A week to 10 days ago it looked like Trump had it won to me. But he's been tired, low wattage, even more incoherent to the point of almost incomprehensible and Harris has finished incredibly strongly. Now I really don't know. Has it tipped back enough? I hope so.
    Yes, I would certainly have been with you there David. But - as you say - the sheer difference in body language from the two candidates is quite startling. And body language is hard to fake. Harris is glowing. Does she think she’s won?

    Hmm.
    Her appearance on SNL was one of the highlights of the campaign. It beamed confidence.
    Trump is NOT happy about that

    And Vance is calling her trash tonight

    They look like sore losers at this point
    It's OK for Trump and for Vance to call Harris " and those around her" trash, but it is not OK for Biden to call people surrounding Trump " trash". The one critique is unacceptable to the networks, the radio stations and the troll farm that is X, but not so much as a whimper if Republicans make the same insult.

    I was fascinated by Trump's plan to put Harris in a ring with Mike Tyson. Very post apocalyptic, very Beyond Thunderdome.
    As noted before, they've openly called her a prostitute.
    Which is a bit rich from a pair with Trump's unpleasant sexual history, and Vance's sale of himself to Thiel.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935

    Presumably Donald Trump's final rally. He has yet to come on stage in Michigan.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Wj6CCEjUk

    He's been hours late for some of his rallies.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    GA SOS link has 3,765,000 ballots accepted.

    NBC has GA early vote as 4,018,000.

    Why the difference?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/early-vote
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    @williamglenn, @MartinVegas, @MarqueeMark , @rcs1000

    OK, to summarise: urban are not turning out in the swing states. But of those that are turning out, they are predominately women. If those women prioritise immigration and inflation, they will win it for Trump. If those women prioritise abortion, they will win it for Kamela.

    Any ideas, gang?

    Except Nevada. In Nevada, it's the urban and suburban areas that are turning out, while rural is not.

    Which is the exact opposite of what we'd expect given data on voting by party registration.
    Sorry but that's the opposite of what Ralston has.

    NV turnout per Ralston:

    Clark 51.8%
    Washoe 53.4%
    Rurals 59.8%

    Incidentally Ralston did an update at Mon 7.25pm PT - see link:

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog-2024
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,935
    MikeL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    GA SOS link has 3,765,000 ballots accepted.

    NBC has GA early vote as 4,018,000.

    Why the difference?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/early-vote
    Here you go: absentee and early voting is 4.031 million

    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    3-3 in Dixville
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416

    Presumably Donald Trump's final rally. He has yet to come on stage in Michigan.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Wj6CCEjUk

    He's been hours late for some of his rallies.
    Trump is on now.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpzA-9_YDyA
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    MikeL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1853610975594790936

    Early voting 20240 vs. 2020 in swing states shows a big shift:

    2024:
    Rural: 6.2M
    Urban: 3.8M

    2020:
    Rural: 6.4M
    Urban: 6.2M

    Target Smart

    Jeez, she's dead. That lines up with that gossip from the New York Republican.
    Go look at the actual numbers for Georgia here
    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout

    Turnout is much higher in Atlanta than in rural areas
    GA SOS link has 3,765,000 ballots accepted.

    NBC has GA early vote as 4,018,000.

    Why the difference?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/early-vote
    Here you go: absentee and early voting is 4.031 million

    https://sos.ga.gov/page/election-data-hub-turnout
    OK, thanks!

    It wasn't obvious to me that you had to click on total turnout, the page was set to early voting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    edited November 5
    New Hampshire - Dixville Notch Presidential Results:

    Harris: 3
    Trump: 3

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1853667022569128234

    Herding ?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited November 5
    Harris just retook the lead on 538's latest forecast:

    1,000 simulations:

    Harris 504
    Trump 494
    No winner 2

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    Pulpstar said:

    3-3 in Dixville

    Have to love these mad anomalies on election days, like the hamlet of six people who all turn up at midnight.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    3-3 in Dixville

    Have to love these mad anomalies on election days, like the hamlet of six people who all turn up at midnight.
    Where? It is already half past midnight down the right-hand side.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    edited November 5

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    3-3 in Dixville

    Have to love these mad anomalies on election days, like the hamlet of six people who all turn up at midnight.
    Where? It is already half past midnight down the right-hand side.
    Dixville Notch, NH. They already announced their result, 3-3 for President.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/politics/dixville-notch-new-hampshire-2024-results/index.html

    Interestingly 2020 was 5-0 to Biden, and 2016 was Clinton 4, Trump 2, Johnson 1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Betfair's rules are desperately unhelpful for the ECV handicap market lol

    How so?
    Not clear if the winning post is ahead of the other candidate or ahead of the 269 post.
    Obviously the former. That’s the way elections work.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    I see that 25% of Dixville Notch’s registered Republicans (all Haley supporters) voted for Harris.

    It was also a 65+ senior male who broke ranks…

    Predictive…

    😇😁
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,124

    Good blog from Patrick O'Flynn deriving some humour (about all one can derive) from Sir Twat's boats reset:

    Rather comically, the Sun newspaper was briefed that Starmer will declare the border crisis a ‘national security issue’, announce a crack new team of investigators, hold talks with Giorgia Meloni and vow to end ‘gimmicks’. So that’s three gimmicks followed by a promise not to indulge in gimmicks. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh.


    Today, Starmer announced a doubling of the budget of his new Border Security Command to £150 million – an unprecedented investment in gold braid and epaulettes that may at least be of some benefit to the British textiles industry.


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/starmers-plan-to-stop-the-boats-is-a-comical-gimmick/

    Rwanda... à gimmick makers gimmick.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,531
    There seems a small, but perceptible, shift to Harris.

    Talk of her winning Florida seems like getting high on your own supply, however.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    3-3 in Dixville

    Have to love these mad anomalies on election days, like the hamlet of six people who all turn up at midnight.
    Where? It is already half past midnight down the right-hand side.
    Dixville Notch, NH. They already announced their result, 3-3 for President.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/politics/dixville-notch-new-hampshire-2024-results/index.html

    Interestingly 2020 was 5-0 to Biden, and 2016 was Clinton 4, Trump 2, Johnson 1
    A swing to Trump compared to last time, but of the six voters, four are GOP registered, so Harris can take consultation from Trump not even landing all the republicans.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    3-3 in Dixville

    Have to love these mad anomalies on election days, like the hamlet of six people who all turn up at midnight.
    Where? It is already half past midnight down the right-hand side.
    Dixville Notch, NH. They already announced their result, 3-3 for President.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/05/politics/dixville-notch-new-hampshire-2024-results/index.html

    Interestingly 2020 was 5-0 to Biden, and 2016 was Clinton 4, Trump 2, Johnson 1
    A swing to Trump compared to last time, but of the six voters, four are GOP registered, so Harris can take consultation from Trump not even landing all the republicans.
    Hasn't one of the households in Dixville Notch changed?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443

    GIN1138 said:

    What is the PB consensus on Kemi's shadow cabinet and particularly Mel Stride as shadow chancellor?

    Nobody gives a fly f - especially the eve before the US election to end all elections.

    Whatever genius gave the tory party their leadership timetable needs to consider another career.

    I disagree. Gives them a chance to bed in while no one is looking
This discussion has been closed.