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Well that escalated quickly – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,336
    Leon said:

    Agreed. Unwise from Kemi

    Also unnecessary - she’s surely winning? Unless she has private info that she’s not and she needs to do this

    She’s creating a reason not to serve in his shadow cabinet if she loses
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404
  • glwglw Posts: 9,920

    The majority of Penn's 580K latinos are of Puerto Rico descendent.

    LOL.

    Ah but it was actually a really clever move by the Trump campaign to book a comedian to insult those voters.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,336
    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Smart bloke despite being French
  • PJHPJH Posts: 660
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Whereas I roll my eyes at how unimpressive the Labour government has been so far (not actually that much worse than I was expecting) then look across at the Tory leadership contenders and conclude that unimpressive is good enough for now in the circumstances.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    edited October 28

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    https://ber.berlin-airport.de/en/flying/controls/security-control.html#runway

    What I love is that it says you should book a time 2 hours before your flight.

    But then there isn't anywhere to seat when you get through security because the gates only have 50 seats (max) at them.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,308
    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,515

    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Smart bloke despite being French
    We all have our crois to bear.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    But the Tories don't have a cult following that's busy talking itself into embracing actual fascism in the USA. Hopefully at least the Nuremburg rally last night will have helped boost Democrat turnout a bit.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,469
    Good morning everyone.

    I think it was @viewcode who asked the other day about Regulations for Belisha Beacons being optional on cycle / mobility track Zebra Crossings.

    I asked a Bluesky / Twitter friend who posts as the @Rantyhighwayman and is a Fellow of the Chartered Institution of Highways & Transportation & several others. He said:

    @rantyhighwayman.bsky.social‬
    It's in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Schedule 14, Part 1, Paragraph 25 "General provision about crossings placed over cycle tracks" this covers not needing globes or zigzags. I hope a technical person is asking you for a citation!

    https://bsky.app/profile/rantyhighwayman.bsky.social/post/3l7kq532g3d2y

    Text and link:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/part/1/paragraph/25/made

    General provision about crossings placed across cycle tracks
    25.—(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies where, but for this paragraph, these Regulations impose a requirement for there to be a controlled area.

    (2) Where the crossing is placed across a cycle track, no controlled area in that part of the carriageway that is a cycle track is required.

    (3) In relation to a Zebra or Parallel crossing which only crosses a cycle track, a yellow globe (provided for at item 27 of the Part 2 sign table) is not required.


    Blog where he writes in detail:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    .
    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    Sandpit doing DEI for racist comedians.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    Oh absolutely. I wouldn’t have have hired Hinchcliffe as the opening act of a political rally, the Trump campaign messed up by doing so, and then failed again by not having his script vetted by a bunch of political operatives who understand how opponents will clip videos.

    I’d definitely hire Hinchcliffe to a roast of my friends though, he’s brilliant at it!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    You don't have to do it, it's an optional thing you can do if you're worried there will be a long queue.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,469
    edited October 28
    nico679 said:

    The majority of Penn's 580K latinos are of Puerto Rico descendent.

    LOL.

    On the same evening as the rally “joke “ Harris was putting forward plans to help Puerto Rico .

    The one that I enjoy is that most of the 600k or so Iranian Americans are reportedly not Muslims:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Americans
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,170
    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    It’s (another) reason why I could never be a politician. Eventually I would call a spade and spade and say Luton/Walsall/Croydon was a ****hole.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444
    edited October 28

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    You don't have to do it, it's an optional thing you can do if you're worried there will be a long queue.
    I only know about it because when I arrived there last time round it was to discover a blooming massive queue..

    Now I've been to a lot of poor airports in Europe and BER is easily the worst - simply because most airports expanded into crapiness as demand exceeded the ability of the airport to cope. BER was built to be crap because expected passenger numbers where obvious when it was built.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    biggles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    It’s (another) reason why I could never be a politician. Eventually I would call a spade and spade and say Luton/Walsall/Croydon was a ****hole.
    Probably a vote winner if you were MP for Watford/Wolverhampton/Bromley.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    That's very true. Trump has been spending years describing Latino immigrants as racists and murderers and has recently turned to promising mass deportation, but you're right, he gets away with it because it's "priced in". In that context a joke about PR being a garbage patch is on the gentle side.

    But American politics really does seem to be about convincing voters you hate the same people they hate. So even if you hate the voter themselves, that's OK so long as you share some other mutual hatreds.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,336
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    At least you’ve moved on from “they can’t take a joke” on the last thread


    You are far down the rabbit hole, my friend, and I fear you are circling the drain
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,469
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I think it was @viewcode who asked the other day about Regulations for Belisha Beacons being optional on cycle / mobility track Zebra Crossings.

    I asked a Bluesky / Twitter friend who posts as the @Rantyhighwayman and is a Fellow of the Chartered Institution of Highways & Transportation & several others. He said:

    @rantyhighwayman.bsky.social‬
    It's in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Schedule 14, Part 1, Paragraph 25 "General provision about crossings placed over cycle tracks" this covers not needing globes or zigzags. I hope a technical person is asking you for a citation!

    https://bsky.app/profile/rantyhighwayman.bsky.social/post/3l7kq532g3d2y

    Text and link:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/part/1/paragraph/25/made

    General provision about crossings placed across cycle tracks
    25.—(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies where, but for this paragraph, these Regulations impose a requirement for there to be a controlled area.

    (2) Where the crossing is placed across a cycle track, no controlled area in that part of the carriageway that is a cycle track is required.

    (3) In relation to a Zebra or Parallel crossing which only crosses a cycle track, a yellow globe (provided for at item 27 of the Part 2 sign table) is not required.


    Blog where he writes in detail:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/

    An interesting recent piece about how Mobile Phone type apps (used for booking parking) can be used to turn a "loading bay" into a bookable space by in effect issuing a Business Parking Permit that lasts for that time period. Using a thing called an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order.
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2024/09/booking-time-space.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    You don't have to do it, it's an optional thing you can do if you're worried there will be a long queue.
    I only know about it because when I arrived there last time round it was to discover a blooming massive queue..

    Now I've been to a lot of poor airports in Europe and BER is easily the worst...
    If only it hadn’t opened a decade late and several BILLION Euro over budget.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196
    "...PBers have probably worked out that I am no fan of Kemi Badenoch but yet I still voted for her in the Tory leadership contest..."

    This is why I have over £200 on her winning :o
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,336
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    He actually means pre-history, but should get Leon excited.

    Archeologists just found ancient highly advanced stone structures in West Java radiocarbon dated to be between 27,000 - 16,000 years old, drastically upending our theories of human civilization.

    Along with Gobli Tepeke it seems like our entire conception of history is flawed 🧵..

    https://x.com/Andercot/status/1850316794914849026

    BTW, why do you keep linking to Twitter?
    - it's annoying for those of us who aren't on Twitter so can't read all of it
    - usually the Tweet itself is based on some other source so why not just link to the actual source?
    - many times Twitter is misleading or just plain wrong, including several times with tweets that you link to without bothering to check if they are accurate
    - it's owned by badly drawn Bond villain Elon Musk
    Replace x.com with nitter.poast,org and you can read it
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    biggles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    It’s (another) reason why I could never be a politician. Eventually I would call a spade and spade and say Luton/Walsall/Croydon was a ****hole.
    Cleverly did it and he got one voting cock up away from being in the final 2 for the Tory leadership.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    He actually means pre-history, but should get Leon excited.

    Archeologists just found ancient highly advanced stone structures in West Java radiocarbon dated to be between 27,000 - 16,000 years old, drastically upending our theories of human civilization.

    Along with Gobli Tepeke it seems like our entire conception of history is flawed 🧵..

    https://x.com/Andercot/status/1850316794914849026

    BTW, why do you keep linking to Twitter?
    - it's annoying for those of us who aren't on Twitter so can't read all of it
    - usually the Tweet itself is based on some other source so why not just link to the actual source?
    - many times Twitter is misleading or just plain wrong, including several times with tweets that you link to without bothering to check if they are accurate
    - it's owned by badly drawn Bond villain Elon Musk
    Replace x.com with nitter.poast,org and you can read it
    eg change this

    https://x.com/Andercot/status/1850316794914849026

    to this

    https://nitter.poast.org/Andercot/status/1850316794914849026
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,761
    edited October 28
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour are completely clueless putting idiots in senior positions.

    *cough*BoZo*cough*Truss*cough*
    They are being championed as better... they aren't.. they are just as clueless if not worse...
  • The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,761
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Harsh reality.. that Keir Starmer says we face ... is the harsh reality of a high tax high spend Labour Govt. It's always ended in tearsbefore and it will do so again.

    I am beginning to.realise there is no party I would consider voting for atm.

    Meanwhile in the past ten years, Britain’s foreign policy has been dismantled by events, competition and bad decisions.

    NATO - one hanging chad from disaster
    EU - thanks Nigel and Boris, what an own goal!
    UN, largely impotent.
    Commonwealth - obviously no longer a thing. Was held together by QE2 and warped by Chinese and Russian money and influence.
    G7, now less GDP than the BRICS

    Never have we been more isolated. Our economic and military weakness leaves us vulnerable. Even our cultural influence is on the wane. Alarm bells should be ringing.
    Do you think the idiot Lammy is going to fix everything.... Labour are completely clueless putting idiots in senior positions.
    Name calling is unhelpful. I think Labour are well positioned to take a fresh approach to the EU and that will help our position. Right or wrong by the end of their 14 years the conservative government had boxed itself in with respect to our nearest neighbours. Obviously, events determine what happen to NATO. I am not sure anyone can do anything about the commonwealth. Where the government can do something is to pour serious support into our cultural institutions and universities.
    Lammys first outing was disastrous
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I'm detecting a theme in there.
    Those staffers again no doubt.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4956332-5-takeaways-trumps-madison-square-garden-rally/
    ..Carlson mocked Harris’s racial identity.
    Sid Rosenberg, a New York City radio host whose show Trump calls into periodically, blasted Democrats in derogatory and explicit terms.
    “She is some sick bastard, that Hillary Clinton. What a sick son of a bitch,” he said of the former secretary of State and 2016 Democratic nominee. “The whole fucking party. A bunch of degenerates.”
    One speaker described Harris as “the devil” and “the antichrist.”
    Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani spent a portion of his remarks fear-mongering about Palestinians, saying they are taught to “kill us at 2 years old” and are “on the side of the terrorists.”..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,039
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
    When you make a shameless, populist liar leader of your party, the party is fucked.

    Who could have predicted that...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    If Harris wins Pennsylvania and the election yes this will look like
    Kinnock's infamous 1992 Sheffield rally
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,039
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I'm detecting a theme in there.
    Those staffers again no doubt.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4956332-5-takeaways-trumps-madison-square-garden-rally/
    ..Carlson mocked Harris’s racial identity.
    Sid Rosenberg, a New York City radio host whose show Trump calls into periodically, blasted Democrats in derogatory and explicit terms.
    “She is some sick bastard, that Hillary Clinton. What a sick son of a bitch,” he said of the former secretary of State and 2016 Democratic nominee. “The whole fucking party. A bunch of degenerates.”
    One speaker described Harris as “the devil” and “the antichrist.”
    Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani spent a portion of his remarks fear-mongering about Palestinians, saying they are taught to “kill us at 2 years old” and are “on the side of the terrorists.”..
    GOP commentators have called on Kamala's campaign to "dial down the rhetoric"...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    https://ber.berlin-airport.de/en/flying/controls/security-control.html#runway

    What I love is that it says you should book a time 2 hours before your flight.

    But then there isn't anywhere to seat when you get through security because the gates only have 50 seats (max) at them.
    Ah, so it's optional and them trying to be helpful in their lumbering Teutonic way.
    Must say I've always left from the same terminal as the S-Bahn arrived at and never experienced massive queueing except when thay had some staffing problem and shunted us accross to the other terminal at short notice.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
    Indeed. Basing your entire strategy on a charismatic, but volatile individual is risky and not sustainable. A mistake.

    You need a charismatic character with a higher than 50% chance of not blowing up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,469
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I think it was @viewcode who asked the other day about Regulations for Belisha Beacons being optional on cycle / mobility track Zebra Crossings.

    I asked a Bluesky / Twitter friend who posts as the @Rantyhighwayman and is a Fellow of the Chartered Institution of Highways & Transportation & several others. He said:

    @rantyhighwayman.bsky.social‬
    It's in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Schedule 14, Part 1, Paragraph 25 "General provision about crossings placed over cycle tracks" this covers not needing globes or zigzags. I hope a technical person is asking you for a citation!

    https://bsky.app/profile/rantyhighwayman.bsky.social/post/3l7kq532g3d2y

    Text and link:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/part/1/paragraph/25/made

    General provision about crossings placed across cycle tracks
    25.—(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies where, but for this paragraph, these Regulations impose a requirement for there to be a controlled area.

    (2) Where the crossing is placed across a cycle track, no controlled area in that part of the carriageway that is a cycle track is required.

    (3) In relation to a Zebra or Parallel crossing which only crosses a cycle track, a yellow globe (provided for at item 27 of the Part 2 sign table) is not required.


    Blog where he writes in detail:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/

    An interesting recent piece about how Mobile Phone type apps (used for booking parking) can be used to turn a "loading bay" into a bookable space by in effect issuing a Business Parking Permit that lasts for that time period. Using a thing called an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order.
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/2024/09/booking-time-space.html
    It might have been @StillWaters , TBH.

    Enough self-replies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Big ‘We accidentally chose a racist comedian for our biggest rally of the campaign who in no way represents our true principles’ vibe.

    Incidentally why are Trump and assorted weirdos singing their little hearts out in NYC just over a week before the election? I’m beginning to think the ‘Trump may win the popular vote but lose the Electoral College’ guys might be onto something.
    If Trump wins the popular vote he may well win the Electoral College via legal games...

    And there is a separate issue where a lot of (the "Democrat") States have agreed that eventually all their votes will go to the winner of the popular vote - it just hasn't reached quorum yet.

    Edit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
    State counts are now confirmed by state governors and every swing states governor except in Georgia and Nevada is a Democrat
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Sure the polls are poor. But then again, he hasn’t exactly set out to be popular.

    You miss my point, you (and a few others) seem to have let things really get under your skin. And that’s not good for you.

    Take this as advice from someone who had to maintain a level head for 14 years that included mistakes such as Brexit. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Impotent rage is not good for your mental health.
    What bollocks

    No way did Starmer expect to be the most unpopular prime minister in UK history after 100 days. You can see the desperate panic on his stupid fat face in recent photos

    Also you misconstrue my mood. I’m ENJOYING kicking the shit out of your miserable government because

    1. They are genuinely awful and

    2. Beating up wankers is fun
    Oh well. Just trying to help. Over analysing photos is a little obsessive. No politician is worth that level of attention.
    You’re on a political betting website constantly commenting on politics since << checks clocks >> 7.30 in the morning and you’re accusing others of being “a little obsessive”?

    I have an excuse. I’m in a hotel in the Orient and it’s 5pm
    I know, it takes one to know one and there is definitely a line we all have to manage! Anyway, I enjoy reading about your Japanese adventures. Distracts for a boring Monday morning in late October.
    That’s a more gracious reply than I deserved after being quite rude. So Thankyou for your politesse

    Glad you enjoy the travelogue

    I’ve actually moved on from Japan… but I’m still out east. And now I just go shower before my first bibimbap
    I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna after a two week tour and a marathon. Unfortunately I'm on my way home. I think it's the first time I've been away on my own for more than two weeks (Fri-Mon, 3 weekends) and feel I could stay out longer. Having said that, I have been mostly in NL and Germany which I find culturally easy to navigate, and with a marathon in the middle I have kept it fairly easy.

    My flight isn't until 5pm so I am hoping to have time for lunch at Plachutta.

    One thing I have learned is that DB really is shite, if you look at the departure board at any busy time it seems half the trains are cancelled or have a Spätung indicated. After my journey from Amsterdam to Hamburg was disrupted had a nice email from NS hoping I got where I wanted to and telling me how to claim delay repay
    Germany has a reputation for efficiency that really doesn't match the reality there.

    I'm off to Berlin again in May (with Mrs Eek this time round) and I'm really not looking forward to the return leg via Berlin's airport - it doesn't even have an accessible lounge..
    Er no, the non-Schengen terminal of Berlin-Brandenburg is shite, and a long walk across a car park. They haven't even worked out they can make money out of us with duty free. The only saving grace is that it's fairly easy to get there on the S-Bahn, and effectively free if you have a public transport ticket anyway.

    I like Berlin, but it is certainly more than a bit dysfunctional. Which it has a excuse for, given its history, but I have found out that not a few German cities include Cologne and Hamburg seem to be the same
    Brandenburg was designed by an architect who didn't like flying or shopping. So there are few shops, few restaurants (with very few seats) and you need to book yourself into security...

    However I will be in the Schengen bit - because it's for me to use Amsterdam as a hub airport...
    I recall you mentioned previously booking into security at Brandenburg. I went through it 5 weeks ago without anything like that, same on previous occasions. How is it supposed to work?
    You don't have to do it, it's an optional thing you can do if you're worried there will be a long queue.
    I only know about it because when I arrived there last time round it was to discover a blooming massive queue..

    Now I've been to a lot of poor airports in Europe and BER is easily the worst...
    If only it hadn’t opened a decade late and several BILLION Euro over budget.
    Positively Anglo Saxon..
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I think it was @viewcode who asked the other day about Regulations for Belisha Beacons being optional on cycle / mobility track Zebra Crossings.

    I asked a Bluesky / Twitter friend who posts as the @Rantyhighwayman and is a Fellow of the Chartered Institution of Highways & Transportation & several others. He said:

    @rantyhighwayman.bsky.social‬
    It's in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Schedule 14, Part 1, Paragraph 25 "General provision about crossings placed over cycle tracks" this covers not needing globes or zigzags. I hope a technical person is asking you for a citation!

    https://bsky.app/profile/rantyhighwayman.bsky.social/post/3l7kq532g3d2y

    Text and link:
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/part/1/paragraph/25/made

    General provision about crossings placed across cycle tracks
    25.—(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies where, but for this paragraph, these Regulations impose a requirement for there to be a controlled area.

    (2) Where the crossing is placed across a cycle track, no controlled area in that part of the carriageway that is a cycle track is required.

    (3) In relation to a Zebra or Parallel crossing which only crosses a cycle track, a yellow globe (provided for at item 27 of the Part 2 sign table) is not required.


    Blog where he writes in detail:
    https://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.com/

    Good morning @MattW. Whilst i am oddly complimented you thought it was me who asked, I think it was somebody else :(
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    I'd like to think that's true, but we're in a global ethno-populist pandemic from which the US population does not have natural immunity, combined with a very clear and consistent anti-incumbency trend in recent elections, so a Harris win would be something of a miracle completely against the run of play.

    (No, the Georgian Dream "win" yesterday does not counterbalance the anti-incumbency trend, because it was rigged).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,469
    edited October 28
    There are going to be some interesting "Do you want to be in my Cabinet?" conversations :smile: .

    Bring on Doris Day:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSXptKlK8oM

    "With me you'd have a leader where there's no scandal" sounds like a slight hostage to fortune.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,545
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I'm detecting a theme in there.
    Those staffers again no doubt.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4956332-5-takeaways-trumps-madison-square-garden-rally/
    ..Carlson mocked Harris’s racial identity.
    Sid Rosenberg, a New York City radio host whose show Trump calls into periodically, blasted Democrats in derogatory and explicit terms.
    “She is some sick bastard, that Hillary Clinton. What a sick son of a bitch,” he said of the former secretary of State and 2016 Democratic nominee. “The whole fucking party. A bunch of degenerates.”
    One speaker described Harris as “the devil” and “the antichrist.”
    Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani spent a portion of his remarks fear-mongering about Palestinians, saying they are taught to “kill us at 2 years old” and are “on the side of the terrorists.”..
    GOP commentators have called on Kamala's campaign to "dial down the rhetoric"...
    It's quite alarming to think what might happen when Harris is shown to win the EC, even if it's by "quite a lot".
    I hope the Army's on alert to support, or sometimes, perhaps, to replace, the police.

    Otherwise, it's a pleasant autumn morning here. Hope everyone is having as good a Monday as possible!
  • Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I had a digital watch in the eighties that played dixie. Does that make me fascist adjacent?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,401
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
    Indeed. Basing your entire strategy on a charismatic, but volatile individual is risky and not sustainable. A mistake.

    You need a charismatic character with a higher than 50% chance of not blowing up.
    Even when Boris resigned the Tories were still on 30%+ in most polls.

    A rating Sunak, Truss, Badenoch, Jenrick and even Starmer now would kill for
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    Question: do we think Russia could successfully manage a counter-insurgency operation in Georgia if protests turn violent this week, given they are already fully stretched in Ukraine?

    I'm expecting more mass street protests this week in Tbilisi but the question is a. whether these spread to other cities, b. whether they get more aggressive than previous ones and/or the government gets out the rifles, like Yanukovich back in 2014.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,545

    Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I had a digital watch in the eighties that played dixie. Does that make me fascist adjacent?
    It didn't then; might be different if you bought it now.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
    Indeed. Basing your entire strategy on a charismatic, but volatile individual is risky and not sustainable. A mistake.

    You need a charismatic character with a higher than 50% chance of not blowing up.
    Even when Boris resigned the Tories were still on 30%+ in most polls.

    A rating Sunak, Truss, Badenoch, Jenrick and even Starmer now would kill for
    Some people will always like Trump and Johnson. It’s a cult.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 563
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
    Not like she's got a big pool to choose from, sifting those that can tie their own shoelaces from those, like Chope, will be a public embarrassment will result in a very small subs bench.
  • novanova Posts: 692
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
    Is party unity still a thing for the Tories?

    She'll be leader number 6 in just over eight years. There are already plenty of people suggesting the winner of this contest won't even fight an election.

    She may be as well doing whatever the hell she wants, and seeing if that works.
  • HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    If Harris wins Pennsylvania and the election yes this will look like
    Kinnock's infamous 1992 Sheffield rally
    Kinnock lost in 1992 and resigned.
    If Trump loses in 2024 he'll demand that his supporters Take Back Control

    There is a difference
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,518
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    It was a brilliant line. Prob of less resonance to younger voters but still good.

    Maybe we can have “no cheer, just Keir” as a counter.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    The media's cheerleading for Brown in the summer of 2007 was one of the oddest things I've seen in politics.

    Then Brown went and bottled having an election and his economic strategy fell apart.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,522
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    Shame he was rubbish, though.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    Well, Kemi is not wrong. Jenrick is a grifter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    The media's cheerleading for Brown in the summer of 2007 was one of the oddest things I've seen in politics.

    Then Brown went and bottled having an election and his economic strategy fell apart.
    Just look at what the American media have been doing for Kamala Harris for the last three months.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,415
    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    That's very true. Trump has been spending years describing Latino immigrants as racists and murderers and has recently turned to promising mass deportation, but you're right, he gets away with it because it's "priced in". In that context a joke about PR being a garbage patch is on the gentle side.

    But American politics really does seem to be about convincing voters you hate the same people they hate. So even if you hate the voter themselves, that's OK so long as you share some other mutual hatreds.
    Yes. That’s it.

    People will vote for face-eating leopards, believing they’ll eat other peoples’ faces.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    edited October 28
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    Much as the Tories have had a real problem ever since Boris left the stage
    Indeed. Basing your entire strategy on a charismatic, but volatile individual is risky and not sustainable. A mistake.

    You need a charismatic character with a higher than 50% chance of not blowing up.
    Even when Boris resigned the Tories were still on 30%+ in most polls.

    A rating Sunak, Truss, Badenoch, Jenrick and even Starmer now would kill for
    Boris would still be prime minister if he'd followed his own lockdown rules.

    Perhaps the Conservative party might consider that they should have employed a health safety manager instead of a few nepo-spads.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,761
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    In Brown's case the findings are ludicrous. He was absolutely dreadful. And a shit to boot.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,039
    @maddenifico

    "America is for Americans and Americans only."
    — Stephen Miller, 2024

    "Germany is for Germans and Germans only."
    — Adolf Hitler, 1934

    https://x.com/maddenifico/status/1850653571206811979

    It's helpful that a cutaway from Miller's speech show Elon and Melania...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    If Harris wins Pennsylvania and the election yes this will look like
    Kinnock's infamous 1992 Sheffield rally
    Kinnock lost in 1992 and resigned.
    If Trump loses in 2024 he'll demand that his supporters Take Back Control

    There is a difference
    Imagine a gracious concession speech from Trump. It would truly shock the world.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,657
    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This could be Nietzsche talking about the "Herd" and promoting the idea of an Übermensch with his own values and morality. Dangerous stuff.

    But there is a grain of truth in it. Societal coercion has a stultifying effect. The far right and the far left both favour coercion, either through laws or promotion of society norms.

    That's why I am a liberal, valuing individual freedom, and rejecting coercion.
    And definitely rejecting the notion of a "Great Leader"!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,510

    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Smart bloke despite being French
    Leon's French?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,658
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    If Harris wins Pennsylvania and the election yes this will look like
    Kinnock's infamous 1992 Sheffield rally
    Kinnock lost in 1992 and resigned.
    If Trump loses in 2024 he'll demand that his supporters Take Back Control

    There is a difference
    Imagine a gracious concession speech from Trump. It would truly shock the world.
    It would mean he's made a deal for a presidential pardon.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Such, warm attractive politicians, both extraordinary well placed to recreate the Conservative big tent.

    The only thing more impressive than their broad appeal is the coherence and depth of their political argument and the great minds behind them. Makes Thatcher and Keith Joseph look superficial.

    And then you look across and see… Keir Starmer, busily becoming the most hated man in British history - and the Tories don’t look so bad at all
    Bingo, I win £5. .

    This is a hard nuanced argument to attempt on PB, but some of you right wingers have gone a bit funny over Starmer.

    Of course he’s made some political mistakes (taking freebies), deliberately made some unpopular decisions (WFP) and done things right wingers don’t like (pay workers well or not waste energy unpicking the Tory Chiagos deal), but the vitriol here and internet right wing bubbles is off the scale.

    I genuinely worry about you guys. You’ve not left yourself anywhere to go and if things settle down it couldbe a long 5/10 years for you. You remind me of left wingers raging about Fatcha. Not good for the soul. Whatever the rights and wrongs of Starmer, no politician is worth getting that riled up about.
    Well, we can listen to your witless mithering, or we can look at the polls

    “Keir Starmer has a worse PM job rating than all of his recent predecessors by this point in their tenure (*except for Liz Truss, who didn't last this long)

    Starmer: 26% well vs 58% badly
    Sunak: 29% vs 53%
    Truss*: 11% vs 71%
    Johnson: 40% vs 49%
    May: 46% vs 22%
    Cameron: 59% vs 32%
    Brown: 59% vs 29%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1849441038030500073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Interesting that the best PM job rating is Gordon Brown by a distance. Lets
    get him back .....

    'Not flash just Gordon'. One of the best lines never to have got an airing
    Shame he was rubbish, though.
    Yes that oft repeated poll of Leon's hasn't proved as predictive as he hoped
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This could be Nietzsche talking about the "Herd" and promoting the idea of an Übermensch with his own values and morality. Dangerous stuff.

    But there is a grain of truth in it. Societal coercion has a stultifying effect. The far right and the far left both favour coercion, either through laws or promotion of society norms.

    That's why I am a liberal, valuing individual freedom, and rejecting coercion.
    And definitely rejecting the notion of a "Great Leader"!
    Despite the supporting evidence, unkind to suggest that LDs have rejected the notion of a great leader.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,012

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,170
    Scott_xP said:

    @maddenifico

    "America is for Americans and Americans only."
    — Stephen Miller, 2024

    "Germany is for Germans and Germans only."
    — Adolf Hitler, 1934

    https://x.com/maddenifico/status/1850653571206811979

    It's helpful that a cutaway from Miller's speech show Elon and Melania...

    The rotations emanating from Ronald Reagan’s grave could give free power to the whole planet. His “shining city” is definitely locking the gates.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,657
    maxh said:

    Agh, I just took the Telegraph 'who should I vote for' quiz: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/09/tory-leadership-contest-quiz/

    Apparently I'm leaning Jenrick. I shall exile myself to Con Home in self-disgust.

    Eek! So am I. Who is publishing this quiz? Oh it's the Telegraph. Now I understand.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,510
    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    If it walks like a fascist, quacks like a fascist...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,381
    Sean_F said:

    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    That's very true. Trump has been spending years describing Latino immigrants as racists and murderers and has recently turned to promising mass deportation, but you're right, he gets away with it because it's "priced in". In that context a joke about PR being a garbage patch is on the gentle side.

    But American politics really does seem to be about convincing voters you hate the same people they hate. So even if you hate the voter themselves, that's OK so long as you share some other mutual hatreds.
    Yes. That’s it.

    People will vote for face-eating leopards, believing they’ll eat other peoples’ faces.
    Ok. But let's not pretend this is a "both sides as bad as each other" thing. The GOP have gone rogue under Trump. A return to normal bitter partisanship would feel great by comparison.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,970
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
    What’s the worst cabinet post she could offer him? Northern Ireland? Health?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196

    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Smart bloke despite being French
    Leon's French?
    Oddly enough it would explain a great deal
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    Don't be mean to the fascists or this time they might go really fascist.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,444

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The comedian whoade a joke about Puerto Rico at MSG last night also made a joke about how Latinos make more babies

    "Kill Tony podcaster MAGA stirs outrage with attacks on Latinos, Puerto Rico" https://nypost.com/2024/10/27/us-news/kill-tony-podcaster-maga-stirs-outrage-with-attacks-on-latinos-puerto-rico/?utm_campaign=nypost&utm_medium=referral

    Hinchcliffe is basically the American Jimmy Carr. He’s spent years insulting everyone and everything, and sell out arenas doing so.

    Probably not the top choice for a political rally, where his opponents can find a clip to take well out of context and with no humour.

    The GOP organisers should have had staffers who know nothing about comedy read through his script first, he won’t be the first comedian to bomb in front of the wrong audience, and definitely won’t be the last.
    Hinchcliffe is nowhere near as well known as Jimmy Carr (in their respective countries). Yesterday was the first time most Americans will have heard of the guy.

    A problem for him (and the GOP) is also that the "c'mon, it was a JOKE" line works better if the alleged joke is funny.
    It doesnt't really matter if the jokes are funny or not. Ask yourself this, if the Tories were neck and neck in a general election would it make sense to close their campaign with Jimmy Carr at a rally slagging off say Scotland? It would not. GOP/MAGA screwed up. The people trying to spin it are simpy making themselves look stupid.
    If Harris wins Pennsylvania and the election yes this will look like
    Kinnock's infamous 1992 Sheffield rally
    Kinnock lost in 1992 and resigned.
    If Trump loses in 2024 he'll demand that his supporters Take Back Control

    There is a difference
    Imagine a gracious concession speech from Trump. It would truly shock the world.
    It would mean he's made a deal for a presidential pardon.
    That only solves a few of Trump's problems - he would still have issues at various State levels that no President can pardon..
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,889
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    That's very true. Trump has been spending years describing Latino immigrants as racists and murderers and has recently turned to promising mass deportation, but you're right, he gets away with it because it's "priced in". In that context a joke about PR being a garbage patch is on the gentle side.

    But American politics really does seem to be about convincing voters you hate the same people they hate. So even if you hate the voter themselves, that's OK so long as you share some other mutual hatreds.
    Yes. That’s it.

    People will vote for face-eating leopards, believing they’ll eat other peoples’ faces.
    Ok. But let's not pretend this is a "both sides as bad as each other" thing. The GOP have gone rogue under Trump. A return to normal bitter partisanship would feel great by comparison.
    The Democrats' rhetoric on immigration was very different not so long ago:

    https://x.com/theblaze/status/1849869549967114543

    Hillary Clinton flashback: “If they’ve committed a crime, deport them. No questions asked. They’re gone! If you want to become a citizen you have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally, pay back taxes, learn english and wait in line.”
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    edited October 28
    Kemi v. Bobby J = Alien versus Predator!

    Having said that, the Predator did end up helping the heroine (Sanaa Lathan) of the first AVP film :)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,170

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
    What’s the worst cabinet post she could offer him? Northern Ireland? Health?
    I no opposition they are all crap if there’s 20 of you. Churchill has it right in the 60s: pick six key opposition spokesmen, mostly piss off on holiday, and then intervene on key events.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    What first attracted you to the fascist Donald J. Trump?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,671
    edited October 28
    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218

    That really think Trump is Hitler.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    TimS said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    Here’s the full 12 minute set by Tony Hinchcliffe. It started off slow, including the joke that’s going viral, but he was alright by the end. He admitted he’s not used to following the national anthem in front of an afternoon crowd that isn’t yet drunk.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4X_QNMexo

    For reference, here’s the highlights of his set at “The Roast of Tom Brady”, six months ago, for which he was lauded by the same people tearing him down today.
    https://x.com/rob_shenanigans/status/1787342454447800404

    You do see the difference between roasting a celebrity who has sort-of volunteered for this (and at some level, is loving the attention), and roasting a community who haven't asked for the abuse...

    ... and who you want to vote for you later this week?

    If you are at a party and the set list is all the least likeable people in the nation, it really out to set off warning bells.
    It underlines the weird uniqueness of Trump. For some reason he can get away with this sort of stuff, but no one else can.

    The GOP have a real problem when Trump eventually leaves the stage.
    That's very true. Trump has been spending years describing Latino immigrants as racists and murderers and has recently turned to promising mass deportation, but you're right, he gets away with it because it's "priced in". In that context a joke about PR being a garbage patch is on the gentle side.

    But American politics really does seem to be about convincing voters you hate the same people they hate. So even if you hate the voter themselves, that's OK so long as you share some other mutual hatreds.
    Yes. That’s it.

    People will vote for face-eating leopards, believing they’ll eat other peoples’ faces.
    Ok. But let's not pretend this is a "both sides as bad as each other" thing. The GOP have gone rogue under Trump. A return to normal bitter partisanship would feel great by comparison.
    The Democrats' rhetoric on immigration was very different not so long ago:

    https://x.com/theblaze/status/1849869549967114543

    Hillary Clinton flashback: “If they’ve committed a crime, deport them. No questions asked. They’re gone! If you want to become a citizen you have to pay a stiff fine because you came here illegally, pay back taxes, learn english and wait in line.”
    In that statement Hilary is literally offering citizenship and normalisation of status to illegal immigrants, so long as they have not committed a crime.

    I salute your indefatigability and all that, but your timeline is essentially 50% fabricated gotchas and 50% arch one-liner rhetorical questions.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,690
    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    😶

    "Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd." ― Alexis de Tocqueville

    https://x.com/pmarca/status/1850685013806977530?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This could be Nietzsche talking about the "Herd" and promoting the idea of an Übermensch with his own values and morality. Dangerous stuff.

    But there is a grain of truth in it. Societal coercion has a stultifying effect. The far right and the far left both favour coercion, either through laws or promotion of society norms.

    That's why I am a liberal, valuing individual freedom, and rejecting coercion.
    And definitely rejecting the notion of a "Great Leader"!
    Which is simple until you try to work out what 'individual freedom' means. In particular one sort of freedom is that of 'unfettered by anything, doing whatever I like as long as my freedom ends where your nose begins'. Freedom to do....

    The other sort is the freedom of 15 year old young women to travel wherever they like at whatever time they like, wearing whatever they like, either alone or with others, without any fear of harrassment or worse. Freedom from fear etc....

    These individual freedoms are not entirely compatible. Much else is governed by where you prioritise.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    What first attracted you to the fascist Donald J. Trump?
    I think that Trump is more like Boulanger or Peron than Mussolini.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196
    TimS said:

    ...your timeline is essentially 50% fabricated gotchas and 50% arch one-liner rhetorical questions...

    So you are saying you do rude things with zebras? Huge if true, yes?

    :):):):)

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,515

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    If it walks like a fascist, quacks like a fascist...
    The issue with this is its the same as right wing people describing anyone left wing as communists. Might make you feel good, but is it an accurate representation? Is Meloni a fascist in Italy (the true home of fascists)?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218
    This is where Americans get their history tangled up. To them fascist = Nazi. All Nazis were fascists but not all fascists were Nazis. Trump and MAGA do share some troubling rhetorical similarities with the actual Nazis, but the vibes and personalities are rather more Mussolini than they are Hitler.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,576

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    If it walks like a fascist, quacks like a fascist...
    The issue with this is its the same as right wing people describing anyone left wing as communists. Might make you feel good, but is it an accurate representation? Is Meloni a fascist in Italy (the true home of fascists)?
    Meloni seems to be committed to parliamentary democracy. Has she or her party done anything to undermine democracy in Italy? Genuine question.

    As opposed to a long running campaign by the MAGA types to take control of the federal vote count and massively distort the process. See Nov 6, where literally setting aside the election result was attempted?
  • Nigelb said:

    This was probably just an unfortunate mistake by staffers, too.
    https://x.com/MedicTrommasher/status/1850681898562896314

    I had a digital watch in the eighties that played dixie. Does that make me fascist adjacent?
    It didn't then; might be different if you bought it now.
    I might just make it my phone ringtone.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218
    This is where Americans get their history tangled up. To them fascist = Nazi. All Nazis were fascists but not all fascists were Nazis. Trump and MAGA do share some troubling rhetorical similarities with the actual Nazis, but the vibes and personalities are rather more Mussolini than they are Hitler.
    It's almost like somebody wrote an article about how difficult it was to classify political parties. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/01/07/classification/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    If it walks like a fascist, quacks like a fascist...
    The issue with this is its the same as right wing people describing anyone left wing as communists. Might make you feel good, but is it an accurate representation? Is Meloni a fascist in Italy (the true home of fascists)?
    Trump's cult are not just "anyone left wing". The reason the comparison is coming up is because of the pretty chilling stuff they are saying out loud, including an avowed desire to remove checks and balances on the executive, seize control of the organs of state and prosecute officials who don't go with their programme.

    Meloni's rhetoric is standard authoritarian right wing. She's not shown any intention of arrogating absolute power to herself and her cronies. She's not even attempted the sorts of things Poland's PiS got up to.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,283
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218
    This is where Americans get their history tangled up. To them fascist = Nazi. All Nazis were fascists but not all fascists were Nazis. Trump and MAGA do share some troubling rhetorical similarities with the actual Nazis, but the vibes and personalities are rather more Mussolini than they are Hitler.
    Maybe in the late 1930s civilised Italians would comfort themselves with the thought that Mussolini isn't as bad as Hitler.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,053
    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218
    This is where Americans get their history tangled up. To them fascist = Nazi. All Nazis were fascists but not all fascists were Nazis. Trump and MAGA do share some troubling rhetorical similarities with the actual Nazis, but the vibes and personalities are rather more Mussolini than they are Hitler.
    Dunno if quibbling over the brand of Fascism Trump represents is much of a victory for the How Dare They Call Him Hitler! lads, but I guess they'll take it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,545
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Don't think Kemi will be offering Jenrick a shadow cabinet position anytime soon... 😂

    If she wins but Jenrick gets 45%+ of the vote she won't have any choice. She would have to give him a job for the sake of party unity
    What’s the worst cabinet post she could offer him? Northern Ireland? Health?
    I no opposition they are all crap if there’s 20 of you. Churchill has it right in the 60s: pick six key opposition spokesmen, mostly piss off on holiday, and then intervene on key events.
    Churchill was PM for the second time in the 50's, but resigned in 1955. He stood down as an MP in 1964 and died in 1965.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,196

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    What first attracted you to the fascist Donald J. Trump?
    I think that Trump is more like Boulanger or Peron than Mussolini.
    I know that "Boulanger" and "Peron" aren't things you find in a French patisserie shop, but I can't get the image out of my head.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,069

    TimS said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    The Trump rally - why is anyone surprised? Trump has shifted himself firmly into the fascist arena and like any good demagogue is doing a fine job of fanning the flames.

    What surprises me are the people insisting that 4-star General Kelly et al are wrong in their detailed and experience-based description of Trump as fascist.

    So of course the rally, the abuse, the insults, the othering. That is literally the campaign - fight for the American People against this existential threat from within.

    I remain convinced that Harris will win: because the shift in voting intent to elect Trump after the 2020 election in this circumstance doesn't feel tangible, and because polls suggest a very determined deep dive for voters for Harris and a self-hyping "landslide, because everyone I know thinks like me" for Trump.

    He's not a fascist and every time* someone calls him a fascist it hardens and motivates his support.

    *perhaps less so someone posting on a UK politics website.
    MSNBC actually ran the “Nazi Rally” headline.

    https://x.com/davidgokhshtein/status/1850712789037318218
    This is where Americans get their history tangled up. To them fascist = Nazi. All Nazis were fascists but not all fascists were Nazis. Trump and MAGA do share some troubling rhetorical similarities with the actual Nazis, but the vibes and personalities are rather more Mussolini than they are Hitler.
    Maybe in the late 1930s civilised Italians would comfort themselves with the thought that Mussolini isn't as bad as Hitler.
    I expect they did. And they were right - the problem was he became Hitler's puppet. In the same way Trump is not as bad as Putin.
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