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The State of the Union, Week 7 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited November 7 in General
imageThe State of the Union, Week 7 – politicalbetting.com

Not much movement, and yet lots of movement (for some).The national polling gap continues to narrow slightly, fairly uniformly (we’ll get to Princeton). And yet… Harris’s vote share is actually increasing, just slightly slower than Trump’s. It would seem that both sides’ voters are firming up their views. Harris may be happy to have a lead, Trump may be happy the lead might not be enough for Harris to overcome the disadvantage the Dems have in the Electoral College. Princeton Electoral Consortium had a big shift to Trump this week. Unlike the others, their model only uses state polls, and it hasn’t been a great week for the Dems at state level, so while the end result is slightly unexpected, it is logical.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    edited October 14
    First! Like Harris, hopefully
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792


    Political Polls
    @Politics_Polls
    ·
    15m
    National TIPP Insights Tracking Poll:

    Harris 49% (+3)
    Trump 46%

    1,212 LV, 10/11-13

    Is this +3 compared to its last survey – or the pointless American way of telling us that 49 is 46+3?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited October 14
    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    MattW said:

    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

    More to the point, the PB Tories are clearly running out of material too...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    At the moment of the swing states I would say Arizona and Michigan are heading towards Trump and Wisconsin leans Harris (though Trump outperformed polls there in 2016 and 2020).

    Whoever wins Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Georgia will likely therefore win the EC and presidency. Nevada is also a tossup but went for Biden and Hillary the last 2 times in the end
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    MattW said:

    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

    More to the point, the PB Tories are clearly running out of material too...
    Let me get in first and early.

    If Mr Starmer survives the barrage of baseless bollocks at the beginning, this could be a great reforming Government !
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited October 14
    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Is there a readout of these investments from the summit today?

    Some, like Stansted refurbishing and expanding a bit, are things that MAG have wanted to do for a while, and feel like Starmer riding the coattails stuff. But the AI/digital £6.3bn is possible more significant.

    As always the detail will be the clincher.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    MattW said:

    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

    I don’t care if it’s just 38p. Why on earth does she think we should pay for the preparation of her tax returns? It’s what her salary is for. We all have to pay accountants - but not her??
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 14
    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14
    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    When he said he didn't dream or have a favourite book etc, people thought it again was just the Ming Vase strategy, worried whatever choice he made might offend, but perhaps not. Perhaps that is just him.

    I said this ages ago, he is Gordon Brittas.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    It's just bog-standard polite politico 'jokes' that are de rigueur at business conferences. Clearly you haven't attended as many of them as I have (lucky you!).

    Boris' infamous Peppa Pig funny was an extended, excruciating classic of the genre.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14
    Re accountancy advice on expenses. I have feeling previous chancellors have charged things like tax advice this as well. Not sure why it is allowable.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    When he said he didn't dream or have a favourite book etc, people thought it again was just the Ming Vase strategy, worried whatever choice he made might offend, but perhaps not. Perhaps that is just him.

    I said this ages ago, he is Gordon Brittas.
    A very very VAIN Gordon Brittas
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    It's just bog-standard polite politico 'jokes' that are de rigueur at business conferences. Clearly you haven't attended as many of them as I have (lucky you!).

    Boris' infamous Peppa Pig funny was an extended, excruciating classic of the genre.
    That shit show of a tale absolutely sunk Boris rep of at least being able to hold a crowd.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

    More to the point, the PB Tories are clearly running out of material too...
    Let me get in first and early.

    If Mr Starmer survives the barrage of baseless bollocks at the beginning, this could be a great reforming Government !
    He might as well.

    His enemies and opponents can only destroy him once, so he might as well do the things he believes in in the meantime. There's a story in John Major's biography of when the Conservatives fluked a win in Lambeth in 1968. At the first group meeting after the election, the leader stood up and said something along the lines of "We've got three years and will almost certainly lose next time. Let's be brilliant while we're in charge, so that defeat is an unjust defeat."

    One of the truly disappointing things about Sunak's Premiership was that he must have realised his situation, but didn't have that insight. (Or, perhaps even worse, he did, and this is the legacy he wanted to leave.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited October 14
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    It’s not quite that bad, but she’s talking to the woke activist 3%, rather than the 97% for whom today is a celebration of how they came to be where they are today, born of parents living the Dream.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    Only after the government had to beg for forgiven from DP World. I bet you they aren't going to be doing anything about their "sharp" business practices even if Haigh won't take their ferries on a holiday to France.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Oh God, she hasn't said that has she?

    What's on earth is wrong with Da Libz? Utterly self-destructive. They can't help themselves when wallowing in this bullshit.

    Bet on Trump.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Eh? What has she said that is wrong here? Seems a reasonable point to make.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    Does this actually have full planning permission, or are DP World expecting to receive approval in weeks as they’re used to?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561


    Political Polls
    @Politics_Polls
    ·
    15m
    National TIPP Insights Tracking Poll:

    Harris 49% (+3)
    Trump 46%

    1,212 LV, 10/11-13

    Is this +3 compared to its last survey – or the pointless American way of telling us that 49 is 46+3?
    The latter. TIPP scores very low on transparency in 538's index. The figures are however close to the average (which is not to say that the Electoral College will produce a Harris majority).

    Personally I think Harris is narrowly ahead, in Electoral College terms too, but there are a lot of variables,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Eh? What has she said that is wrong here? Seems a reasonable point to make.
    Pointlessly provocative and insulting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited October 14
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Harris has Indian and Black parents, she has no emotional or ancestral connection to white Europeans (even Obama had a white mother) and calls today 'Indigenous Peoples' Day'. I remember Leon a few months ago saying Harris was not Woke, clearly she is.

    I would expect Trump to win the white vote comfortably and the white working class vote by a landslide. If Harris wins it will be by high turnout of African Americans in her favour and also her winning the Latino and Asian and native American vote comfortably while also leading Trump with white female graduates and at least close to tied with Trump with white male graduates
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited October 14

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    Only after the government had to beg for forgiven from DP World. I bet you they aren't going to be doing anything about their "sharp" business practices even if Haigh won't take their ferries on a holiday to France.
    We'll see. I suspect they will think twice about it. It was terrible behaviour – called out by all parties at the time. Haigh and the Tory Huw Merriman were right to raise it.

    "The transport select committee chair, Conservative Huw Merriman, joined calls for government action, saying: “The government must do everything it can to ensure that this appalling employment transaction cannot be completed.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/17/po-ferries-halts-sailings-before-major-announcement
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    It's just bog-standard polite politico 'jokes' that are de rigueur at business conferences. Clearly you haven't attended as many of them as I have (lucky you!).

    Boris' infamous Peppa Pig funny was an extended, excruciating classic of the genre.
    That shit show of a tale absolutely sunk Boris rep of at least being able to hold a crowd.
    It was a truly embarrassing day.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Going IT in about a Second.~

    Thank-you for the header, James. I wonder if RR is thinking about VAT on books ? :smiley: .

    (Edit - why do Bobs always make me late? Whether Generick Bob or AnaBob, Grrr.)

    FPT:

    Elton John to perform at exclusive private dinner for cabinet and selected investors reporting Guardian. Food by Clare Smyth.


    " “I wish you could see the politicians’ faces. We spend a lot of time in meetings, we don’t get out very often,” Nandy replied. "

    As the newspaper points out:

    "Perhaps, but would it be unfair to suggest that Labour politicians have been in hot water of late for taking freebies to attend superstar gigs?"

    Is this the Lisa Nandy who flew by private jet to watch a football match?
    Apparently our Chancellor of the Exchequer's personal finances are so complicated she has to pay an accountant to do her tax return for her and then expects the taxpayer to cough up for the fees

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/rachel-reeves-claimed-1-225-on-expenses-for-tax-returns-help/ar-AA1saS6C?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8290b7c72dd14f5f9971e2969659f9cc&ei=13
    That's quite funny. It says that last year she spent £137.50, which at professional rates is what for an accountant - one hour? £1225 is 2014 to 2022.

    Good shop it wasn't a lawyer she needed - that's probably about time for one to polish one shoe and turn up dishevelled.

    The Telegrunt is running out of material :smile: .

    I don’t care if it’s just 38p. Why on earth does she think we should pay for the preparation of her tax returns? It’s what her salary is for. We all have to pay accountants - but not her??
    If you read the piece there were 47 MPs who did so!

    Why do these things always come in something sevens? 27s, 47s, 97s, 687s and so on?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Eh? What has she said that is wrong here? Seems a reasonable point to make.
    No it's not, it's hectoring people on their day off.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    It was never going to be shelved - the company are not complete idiots.

    What it did show sadly is that the British Government is more than happy to throw its Transport Secretary, who had released a Government approved press release, under a bus because a big corporate threatened not to come to their party. That's fairly pathetic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Harris is perpetuating the myth that the world lived in peace and harmony until the evil Europeans arrived on the scene.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Eh? What has she said that is wrong here? Seems a reasonable point to make.
    Pointlessly provocative and insulting
    I thought she made a good point TBH. But I am just a centrist motorist who drives on the left.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Harris is perpetuating the myth that the world lived in peace and harmony until the evil Europeans arrived on the scene.

    She really isn't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 14
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
    If she was facing a sensible Republican this alone would probably lose her the election

    She’s very lucky she’s facing the mad clown that is Trump so she will likely be OK

    And, yes, pre Columbian native history is incredibly bloodthirsty. Aztec-style torture and cruelty - and cannibalism - was ubiquitous across the Americas
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    What's so revealing is how posters like @Anabobazina and @kinabalu completely can't see it.

    She'll be surrounded by people and advisors like them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    When he said he didn't dream or have a favourite book etc, people thought it again was just the Ming Vase strategy, worried whatever choice he made might offend, but perhaps not. Perhaps that is just him.

    I said this ages ago, he is Gordon Brittas.
    Or another one of his creations, Arnold J Rimmer.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
    There is a long, long history of man in pre-Columbian America. We have in the Western world a rather European centric view of American history.

    I can endorse this book for anyone interested in what was there before Europeans.

    https://awesomebooks.com/book/9780719566370/a-voyage-long-and-strange-rediscovering-the-new-world/used?msclkid=bea77d9cb5981b2f12bd1a918d64a66f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20%7C%20UK%20%7C%20Used&utm_term=4585788126491835&utm_content=TS2
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14
    Another big investor announced today at the summit are the people who wrecked Thames Water.....

    But we can't have Elon Musk attend, cos, he doesn't have enough money, or something...I lost track of the excuses.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    It was never going to be shelved - the company are not complete idiots.

    What it did show sadly is that the British Government is more than happy to throw its Transport Secretary, who had released a Government approved press release, under a bus because a big corporate threatened not to come to their party. That's fairly pathetic.
    Yes, I agree with you about that. And fair play to you for your stance on this, which some might not have expected.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
    If she was facing a sensible Republican this alone would probably lose her the election

    She’s very lucky she’s facing the mad clown that is Trump so she will likely be OK
    Haley would be heading for a landslide now yes, Trump though means it remains too close to call and will probably remain so even the day after election night
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    It’s something you might want to touch on in a much longer speech, if you’re that way inclined, but you don’t start off by saying hey white Europeans, you’re not our voters…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    Its the same error as Lammy is making when talking about reparations for slavery. It evokes the myth of the perfect savage - the good times for the natives before the corruption of the West ruined everything.

    No, there was no war, no murder, no slavery, no disease before the White Man came. Everything was perfect until then.

    Its bullshit, of course.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    I just shed half my position on Harris winning the Presidency.

    That will go down like a sack of cold sick in the USA.

    Catastrophic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Ah. It looks like that Harris speech is from 2021! That was Peak Woke and George Floyd. Someone has very cleverly dug it up and made it look like she’s saying it now?

    Nonetheless, she said it. Not a hoax
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Eh? What has she said that is wrong here? Seems a reasonable point to make.
    Pointlessly provocative and insulting
    I thought she made a good point TBH. But I am just a centrist motorist who drives on the left.
    I don't think what she said is particularly factually wrong - though there is the implication that North America lived in peace and happiness before Columbus, which we know is nonsense, so Europeans didn't really unleash a wave of violence, they just joined in with it - but the point is, why would you say it? If you were standing for election in Turkey would you bang on about the evils of the Turkish slave trade? If you were standing for election in Mongolia would you do it on a platform of the evils of Genghis Khan? Nobody likes their elected representatives to be telling them they're the bad guys.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,811
    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,676

    I just shed half my position on Harris winning the Presidency.

    That will go down like a sack of cold sick in the USA.

    Catastrophic.

    It's old news from 2021
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    When he said he didn't dream or have a favourite book etc, people thought it again was just the Ming Vase strategy, worried whatever choice he made might offend, but perhaps not. Perhaps that is just him.

    I said this ages ago, he is Gordon Brittas.
    Or another one of his creations, Arnold J Rimmer.
    Ah, but which Arnold J Rimmer? He could yet turn out to be Ace.

    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be re-elected before breakfast !!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    Ah. It looks like that Harris speech is from 2021! That was Peak Woke and George Floyd. Someone has very cleverly dug it up and made it look like she’s saying it now?

    Nonetheless, she said it. Not a hoax

    Ah. Well, that might be slightly less impactful then.

    I am very nervous about Harris doing a projectile D&V over her election chances in the next 3 weeks through temptations like this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Barnesian said:

    I just shed half my position on Harris winning the Presidency.

    That will go down like a sack of cold sick in the USA.

    Catastrophic.

    It's old news from 2021
    But being used very effectively now by the GOP. And she really did say it. So she can’t deny it - that will only make it worse
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Leon said:

    Ah. It looks like that Harris speech is from 2021! That was Peak Woke and George Floyd. Someone has very cleverly dug it up and made it look like she’s saying it now?

    Nonetheless, she said it. Not a hoax

    She has also in the past, as we discussed the subject earlier, been open to paying reparations to African Americans.

    She’s been silent on the subject in the campaign.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Ah. It looks like that Harris speech is from 2021! That was Peak Woke and George Floyd. Someone has very cleverly dug it up and made it look like she’s saying it now?

    Nonetheless, she said it. Not a hoax

    Although you fell for it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Ah. It looks like that Harris speech is from 2021! That was Peak Woke and George Floyd. Someone has very cleverly dug it up and made it look like she’s saying it now?

    Nonetheless, she said it. Not a hoax

    Although you fell for it.
    I didn’t fall for it. Someone posted it on here as a new speech

    I’m the one that went digging and discovered it’s actually from 2021. You can thank me later
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    It’s not quite that bad, but she’s talking to the woke activist 3%, rather than the 97% for whom today is a celebration of how they came to be where they are today, born of parents living the Dream.
    Is it ?
    You still haven't really explained why the US celebrates the Spanish/Portugese conquest of South America.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    edited October 14

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    It was never going to be shelved - the company are not complete idiots.

    What it did show sadly is that the British Government is more than happy to throw its Transport Secretary, who had released a Government approved press release, under a bus because a big corporate threatened not to come to their party. That's fairly pathetic.
    Yes, I agree with you about that. And fair play to you for your stance on this, which some might not have expected.
    To be fair, Jonathan Powell defended it all fairly deftly on Camilla Tominey. 'One to watch' when you get rid of Sir Twatface - though sadly pale, male etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Releasing internal polls is usually a choice.
    Interesting.

    NEW (GOP)
    @Senate_Fund
    Senate/President Battleground internals.

    Texas: Cruz +1 (48-47), Trump +5 (50-45)
    Wisconsin: Baldwin +1 (46-45), Trump +1 (46-45)
    Pennsylvania: Casey +2 (48-46), Harris +1 (49-48)
    Montana: Sheehy +4 (48-44), Trump +17 (57-40)
    Arizona: Gallego +5 (47-42), TIE pres (47-47)
    Ohio: Brown +6 (45-39), Trump +4 (47-43)
    Nevada: Rosen +7 (43-36), TIE pres (46/46)
    Maryland: Alsobrooks +7 (48-41), Harris +29 (61-32)
    Michigan: Slotkin +8 (46-38), Harris +3 (45-42)...

    https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/1845618278645006584
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,676

    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: :):):) Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.

    ..

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited October 14
    FPT.

    Thanks for this, @Big_G_NorthWales . I think it is really interesting what will happen. I'm still roughly expecting (and tbf hoping for) maybe 5-10% of road mileage which has been set at the new default to be made into exceptions - so maybe ~3% of road mileage out of the total ~1/3 which changed at the start.

    Wrexham has published a list of roads that could return to 30mph

    The list of 20mph roads that could change to 30mph in Wrexham

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/list-20mph-roads-could-change-30136846#ICID=Android_DailyPostNewsApp_AppShare

    Do you have any feel for how much linear mileage this will be reverting? I see that it says 440 individual representations concerning what looks like by eye ~70 sections of carriageway, whilst Wrexham has a population of ~135k.

    Flintshire was 900+ individual comments talking about "93 roads".

    https://www.deeside.com/the-93-roads-in-flintshire-which-could-return-to-30mph/

    By comparison Gwynedd created 85 exceptions from the start, which was more than other Councils did, and Flintshire seems to be roughly in line with that:

    Councils have always had the powers to create exception roads which would stay at 30mph. Some, like Cyngor Gwynedd have used these extensively with 85 exceptions but others have fewer than 10 across their counties..
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    Well he is clearly not entirely stupid, but definitely self-absorbed while paradoxically being exceedingly dull. Another piece of evidence too that his cringing claims to be "working class" really are bollocks. No self respecting working class kid would play the flute ffs!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    It was never going to be shelved - the company are not complete idiots.

    What it did show sadly is that the British Government is more than happy to throw its Transport Secretary, who had released a Government approved press release, under a bus because a big corporate threatened not to come to their party. That's fairly pathetic.
    Its similarly pathetic that we need a gulf based company with extremely dodgy work practices to build a port for us in our own capital city. But we are where we are etc.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    It’s not quite that bad, but she’s talking to the woke activist 3%, rather than the 97% for whom today is a celebration of how they came to be where they are today, born of parents living the Dream.
    97%? Speaking as an actual American, that's mega-MAGA hyperbolic hyperbole. .

    Note that Columbus Day only became a US national holiday in 1966, thanks to decades of advocacy by Italian Americans. Who back in that era were still suffering from significant degree of WASP* prejudice.

    Nowadays hardly 97% of even Italian Americans are "celebrating" Columbus Day, except as (maybe) a day off OR with holiday pay.

    Further note that the day has always been UNpopular with Norwegian Americans, who (for some reason) regard Christopher Columbus as a Johnny-come-lately!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.

    Kemi covering all her bases. Jenrick going right right right. Which is the wisest remains to be seen.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    DavidL said:

    DP World confirmed that a £1bn investment in the London Gateway port would go ahead, adding it would create 400 new jobs and make it the UK's largest container port within five years.

    The PB Tories who luxuriated in this being shelved because Louise Haigh rightly called out P&O's sharp practices are looking rather silly now. The summit seems to be going pretty well...

    It was never going to be shelved - the company are not complete idiots.

    What it did show sadly is that the British Government is more than happy to throw its Transport Secretary, who had released a Government approved press release, under a bus because a big corporate threatened not to come to their party. That's fairly pathetic.
    Its similarly pathetic that we need a gulf based company with extremely dodgy work practices to build a port for us in our own capital city. But we are where we are etc.
    Yep. And by building it, they'll be pulling money out of it for years to capitalise on their investment.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Barnesian said:

    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: :):):) Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.

    ..

    Damian Green about the only sane intelligent one amongst them.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,676
    Leon said:

    Barnesian said:

    I just shed half my position on Harris winning the Presidency.

    That will go down like a sack of cold sick in the USA.

    Catastrophic.

    It's old news from 2021
    But being used very effectively now by the GOP. And she really did say it. So she can’t deny it - that will only make it worse
    It's certainly not helpful. But not fatal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012
    My view, FWIW, is that this has not been a great week for Harris. There has been a slow but perceptible slide back to a coin toss. Am I getting beaten down by the wave of very pro GOP polling? Maybe. Maybe.

    The early returns on early voting are a lot more encouraging. Harris is getting low participation groups out voting now. Its always hard to tell if this is eating your own seed corn but on the figures I have seen she is doing better than Biden did in 2020.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
    UKer PBers appear to think that US debate over European conquest of America in general, and Columbus Day in particular, is a burning issue in the 2024 presidential election?

    Instead, it's a very old chestnut that's been roasting in the fire on this side of the Atlantic (and the Pacific) for the past generation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    edited October 14

    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    What's so revealing is how posters like @Anabobazina and @kinabalu completely can't see it.

    She'll be surrounded by people and advisors like them.
    Is this current footage?

    Edit: I see it is not. Neverthless, it’s quite a batshit position to take.

    There’s a kind of fundamental divide I think on the Western colonisation.

    Many - I don’t know how many, but obviously a lot - seem to see it as the original sin. The founding shame of capitalism. An essentially racist project which we must now talk truth about and cleanse somehow from our societies.

    I find this an ultimately neurotic and self-defeating take, but I feel increasingly estranged from what goes for bien pensant opinion.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    For all you Canucks, former Canucks, relatives of Canucks . . . Happy Thanksgiving!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada)

    "The first Thanksgiving Day after Confederation was observed as a civic holiday on April 5, 1872, to celebrate the recovery of the Prince of Wales (later King Edward VII) from a serious illness."

    https://www.almanac.com/content/ways-canadian-thanksgiving-differs-american-thanksgiving
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    I saw exactly the same thing on Thunderbirds 50 years ago. Thunderbird 1 IIRC.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.

    Kemi covering all her bases. Jenrick going right right right. Which is the wisest remains to be seen.
    There are two MPs in all those 6, I think.

    Both for Kemi - IDS and DD.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    Well he is clearly not entirely stupid, but definitely self-absorbed while paradoxically being exceedingly dull. Another piece of evidence too that his cringing claims to be "working class" really are bollocks. No self respecting working class kid would play the flute ffs!
    Yeah it's a bit Billy Elliott.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Leon said:

    That clip of Skyr Toolmakersson’s terrible anecdote - “I kid you not, I learned the flute” - is quite revealing

    To believe that this anecdote is interesting you have to be incredibly self absorbed, or really quite stupid. Or both?

    Well he is clearly not entirely stupid, but definitely self-absorbed while paradoxically being exceedingly dull. Another piece of evidence too that his cringing claims to be "working class" really are bollocks. No self respecting working class kid would play the flute ffs!
    I suspect they wouldn't now.

    They may well have done in the past, when striving working class self-improvement was much more of a thing. (As were school music lessons.)

    Lest we forget, Starmer is quite old, and a lot of the Britain he grew up in was rather different to today. In some ways that's good, but in others it isn't.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    edited October 14
    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Let's go forward to 2424. Russia is celebrating the 400th anniversary of bringing Ukraine into mother Russia.

    Someone says: ""Russian 'explorers' ushered in a wave of devastation, violence, stealing land, and widespread disease""

    Would you agree or disagree with such a statement?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    It’s not quite that bad, but she’s talking to the woke activist 3%, rather than the 97% for whom today is a celebration of how they came to be where they are today, born of parents living the Dream.
    97%? Speaking as an actual American, that's mega-MAGA hyperbolic hyperbole. .

    Note that Columbus Day only became a US national holiday in 1966, thanks to decades of advocacy by Italian Americans. Who back in that era were still suffering from significant degree of WASP* prejudice.

    Nowadays hardly 97% of even Italian Americans are "celebrating" Columbus Day, except as (maybe) a day off OR with holiday pay.

    Further note that the day has always been UNpopular with Norwegian Americans, who (for some reason) regard Christopher Columbus as a Johnny-come-lately!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day
    Latest research apparently suggests that Columbus was Jewish,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    Mm.

    Devastation, violence and stealing land - pre-Columbian history is vague, but my understanding was that this was pretty standard practice in the Americas prior to Columbus. To the extent that Europeans managed to get a foothold, it was to a large extent down to tribe X allying with or recruiting the Europeans in their war/revolution/intermittent raids against tribe Y. The Aztecs, for example, were utterly bloodthirsty and their various subject peoples were quite delighted to find an ally to help overthrow them. So I'm not sure European explorers unleashed a wave of this, though it would be hard to claim that Europeans didn't partake.

    Disease was the big one. My understanding is that diseases imported by Europeans wiped out 90% of the North American native population before all but the briefest first contact was made. I may be wrong about this - it seems very hard to believe.

    Politically, the 'you lot are evil' message is one that you would normally try to avoid. I guess it's so firmly embedded in the culture of the circles that Kamala moves in that it doesn't really occur to her that it's not necessarily that great a message to be putting out when you're thinking of winning elections.
    UKer PBers appear to think that US debate over European conquest of America in general, and Columbus Day in particular, is a burning issue in the 2024 presidential election?

    Instead, it's a very old chestnut that's been roasting in the fire on this side of the Atlantic (and the Pacific) for the past generation.
    While I acknowledge I'm also guilty of this on occasion, it's usually a mistake to get massively excited by something posted on Twitter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 14
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Ouch. That looks like a massive blunder. A “deplorables” moment
    It’s not quite that bad, but she’s talking to the woke activist 3%, rather than the 97% for whom today is a celebration of how they came to be where they are today, born of parents living the Dream.
    Is it ?
    You still haven't really explained why the US celebrates the Spanish/Portugese conquest of South America.
    It’s a good example of the risk asymmetry in this election. Harris must carry a Ming Vase. Anything she says that implies anything less than heartfelt love for all voters is catastrophic. Trump and his VP on the other hand can throw out insults left right and centre including to most minority groups, the entire female sex and anyone owning a cat and its water off a duck’s back.
    Nonetheless, she has said a stupid Woke and insulting thing to all white Americans of European descent, on Columbus Day

    This isn’t a sensible comment being skewed. She said a very dumb and insolent thing
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    What's so revealing is how posters like @Anabobazina and @kinabalu completely can't see it.

    She'll be surrounded by people and advisors like them.
    Is this current footage?

    Edit: I see it is not. Neverthless, it’s quite a batshit position to take.

    There’s a kind of fundamental divide I think on the Western colonisation.

    Many - I don’t know how many, but obviously a lot - seem to see it as the original sin. The founding shame of capitalism. An essentially racist project which we must now talk truth about and cleanse somehow from our societies.

    I find this an ultimately neurotic and self-defeating take, but I feel increasingly estranged from what goes for bien pensant opinion.

    This is the issue with progressivism, everything is continually ratcheted up after the previous "battle" is won. Progressives take more and more extreme positions that leave ordinary people behind but because they are highly motivated activists they are able to effectively capture the centre left movement. It's similar but opposite effect of traditional conservatives who opposed stuff like gay marriage, the majority of ordinary people left them behind but they still hold a lot of influence in centre right parties, especially the GOP, for example.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    DavidL said:

    My view, FWIW, is that this has not been a great week for Harris. There has been a slow but perceptible slide back to a coin toss. Am I getting beaten down by the wave of very pro GOP polling? Maybe. Maybe.

    The early returns on early voting are a lot more encouraging. Harris is getting low participation groups out voting now. Its always hard to tell if this is eating your own seed corn but on the figures I have seen she is doing better than Biden did in 2020.

    I’m trying to play the devil’s advocate on this forum by following a load of GOP accounts, but there does seem to be a spring in their step over the weekend.

    There’s suggestions that the Harris camp is starting to run out of vibes, and that the Biden and Harris staffers really don’t like each other, to the point of scheduling clashing events.

    https://thepostmillennial.com/shade-war-between-kamala-and-biden-heats-up-as-election-day-nears
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14
    The government are really letting the rumours of employer NI rise in the budget run. Starmer shot down the CGT will go to 39%, but avoided when pushed on NI rise.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    DavidL said:

    My view, FWIW, is that this has not been a great week for Harris. There has been a slow but perceptible slide back to a coin toss. Am I getting beaten down by the wave of very pro GOP polling? Maybe. Maybe.

    The early returns on early voting are a lot more encouraging. Harris is getting low participation groups out voting now. Its always hard to tell if this is eating your own seed corn but on the figures I have seen she is doing better than Biden did in 2020.

    Indeed - you could equally argue this is the last throw of the Republican dice, their attempt at a "steal" for 2024. Much of the polling that has been issued has come from pollsters either strongly aligned to or directly connected to the Trump campaign.

    It's a desperate attempt (paralleled by a few on here) to talk up Trump's prospects and generate the perception of a close race or even of a GOP win.

    Other indicators, as you say, tell a very different story of strong Harris momentum. The problem for her is piling up votes in California, Illinois and Rhode Island isn't going to help her - she needs to ensure she is winning those key marginal states.

    There seems to be a Trum-esque establishment - one might almost call it a "Blob" of officials and others who, if not willing to break democracy and democratic practice, seem happy enough to bend it in their candidate's favour.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited October 14

    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    What's so revealing is how posters like @Anabobazina and @kinabalu completely can't see it.

    She'll be surrounded by people and advisors like them.
    Is this current footage?

    Edit: I see it is not. Neverthless, it’s quite a batshit position to take.

    There’s a kind of fundamental divide I think on the Western colonisation.

    Many - I don’t know how many, but obviously a lot - seem to see it as the original sin. The founding shame of capitalism. An essentially racist project which we must now talk truth about and cleanse somehow from our societies.

    I find this an ultimately neurotic and self-defeating take, but I feel increasingly estranged from what goes for bien pensant opinion.

    For me the "debate" over Columbus is yet another example of "all or nothing at all" polarizing BS.

    With both extremes being pretty much equally ridiculous.

    Anyway, we should REALLY be arguing about the sins of St. Brendan - the Irish discoverer of America!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    It doesn’t look real

    Possibly the most impressive live footage I’ve watched - of anything - that I can remember
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    Barnesian said:

    Received email messages from Robert Jenrick and Kemi B. Both flag three prominent supporters .
    Jenrick: Lord Frost, Jacob Rees Mogg, Esther McVey.
    Badenoch: :):):) Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Damian Green.
    Make of that what you will.

    ..

    Damian Green about the only sane intelligent one amongst them.
    Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of Askelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph...how have the mighty fallen.

    To repeat Damian Green is about the only sane intelligent one amongst them. Jeez.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    It's because it feels like a big leap forwards for humanity. It's not a manned moon landing for sure, but it definitely feels like the stepping stone to a manned Mars landing.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,811
    Interesting focus group accounts of Kemi and Jenrick. Worth a look.

    I've a hunch Kemi could be seriously bad news for Sir Keir, if these people are anyway representative. And I'm not really sure how Farage would manage - he could easily look like last week's news compared to someone as assertive, colourful and new. Not sure the odd gaffe would make much difference - in fact may even help. Authenticity and personality count.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/13/conservatives-focus-group-kemi-badenoch-robert-jenrick-tory-leadership
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    My view, FWIW, is that this has not been a great week for Harris. There has been a slow but perceptible slide back to a coin toss. Am I getting beaten down by the wave of very pro GOP polling? Maybe. Maybe.

    The early returns on early voting are a lot more encouraging. Harris is getting low participation groups out voting now. Its always hard to tell if this is eating your own seed corn but on the figures I have seen she is doing better than Biden did in 2020.

    Big story in Monday NYT re: POTUS GOV.

    Bottom line: serious Harris/Walz turnout operation versus Trump/Vance wing(ing it) and a prayer(circle).
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    The government are really letting the rumours of employee NI rise in the budget run. Starmer shot down the CGT will go to 39%, but avoided when pushed on NI rise.

    *Employer

    It's a weird tax to think about. Interested in PBers take on it - a sort of employment wedge?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    Have it from 20 different angles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysx4t7ICO58

    The view from just above the chopsticks, as they close in on the rocket that was 100km up only three minutes earlier, is possibly the personal favourite!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    No rest for the wicked...Heavy Falcon launch soon.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    The government are really letting the rumours of employee NI rise in the budget run. Starmer shot down the CGT will go to 39%, but avoided when pushed on NI rise.

    So direct breach of manifesto pledge.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    At least we can rely on Reform UK to bring back some decency to politics: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reform-uk-nigel-farage-parliament-tour-b2628696.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 14
    maaarsh said:

    The government are really letting the rumours of employee NI rise in the budget run. Starmer shot down the CGT will go to 39%, but avoided when pushed on NI rise.

    So direct breach of manifesto pledge.
    Sorry EMPLOYER....not employee
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    DavidL said:

    I know I keep going on about this but that Mechazilla chopsticks catch is one of the most incredible videos I've ever seen.

    Will it go down in history as one of the most iconic videos of the early 2020s?

    (..and why can't I still use chopsticks)

    I saw exactly the same thing on Thunderbirds 50 years ago. Thunderbird 1 IIRC.

    Leon said:

    Harris is basically saying white Europeans are evil and the USA is an historical mistake for which Europeans should apologise

    For someone seeking the presidency of the USA that seems suboptimal

    What's so revealing is how posters like @Anabobazina and @kinabalu completely can't see it.

    She'll be surrounded by people and advisors like them.
    Is this current footage?

    Edit: I see it is not. Neverthless, it’s quite a batshit position to take.

    There’s a kind of fundamental divide I think on the Western colonisation.

    Many - I don’t know how many, but obviously a lot - seem to see it as the original sin. The founding shame of capitalism. An essentially racist project which we must now talk truth about and cleanse somehow from our societies.

    I find this an ultimately neurotic and self-defeating take, but I feel increasingly estranged from what goes for bien pensant opinion.

    For me the "debate" over Columbus is yet another example of "all or nothing at all" polarizing BS.

    With both extremes being pretty much equally ridiculous.

    Anyway, we should REALLY be arguing about the sins of St. Brendan - the Irish discoverer of America!
    What about Prince Madoc?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Sandpit said:

    Most Americans think today is Columbus Day.

    But not Kamala Harris. She thinks it’s a different, shameful, day in American history.

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1845805483539472438

    Oh dear. I hope this isn't her Hillary/deplorables moment.
This discussion has been closed.