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Jenrick’s price is collapsing like the England test team's batting in the 1990s

SystemSystem Posts: 12,071
edited 12:55PM in General
imageJenrick’s price is collapsing like the England test team's batting in the 1990s

The final two are announced at 3.30pm and punters say it won’t be Jenrick.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779
    Test
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 694
    First
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,110

    Test

    Match
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 694
    I hope and think the punters are right. But Jenrick is value here fosho.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,585
    Jenrick's interview with Kay Burley this morning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEuzZWyEunM
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,961
    Headline could have been 'in the last test match'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,719

    I hope and think the punters are right. But Jenrick is value here fosho.

    Depends whether the main punters on BF this afternoon are members of Jenrick's inner circle who know the numbers!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,013
    Oh dear, that's a shame...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,013

    Test

    @Dumbosaurus was robbed! :(
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,603
    I bet he's kicking himself for painting over those Disney characters.

    Nasty gets you nowhere!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,585
    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779

    I hope and think the punters are right. But Jenrick is value here fosho.

    I agree.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,364
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,939
    edited 1:11PM

    I hope and think the punters are right. But Jenrick is value here fosho.

    Depends whether the main punters on BF this afternoon are members of Jenrick's inner circle who know the numbers!
    Well Tory MPs do have form for insider trading...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,209
    edited 1:10PM
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    If HYUFD is right (and I think this is an area he is pretty good on) then Jenrick right now represents outstanding trading value.

    Though personally I think the odds probably represent what the insiders now know.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,799

    I bet he's kicking himself for painting over those Disney characters.

    Nasty gets you nowhere!

    Agreed. I’m hoping that Conservative MPs are painting out Jenrick as we peak.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,961
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    The Tory Party needs to be unsparing in its analysis that someone who comes across as dodgy as all fuck will keep it chained to a rock, destined to have its liver pecked out by an eagle like Prometheus.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,643
    edited 1:14PM
    Oh, is Kemi the odds-on favourite again?

    Some of us might have predicted this yesterday.

    She’s going up like a Russian ammo dump.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,643
    edited 1:13PM
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    That’s good news for Kemi. Who wants to be aligned with Nick Timothy?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,352
    FPT...
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Metropolitan Police deny they were put under pressure to give Taylor Swift a blue light convoy at taxpayers expenses by Khan and Cooper

    Apparently they both received Taylor Swift gifted tickets and here lies the problem in perception, fairly or not

    Jesus. What moronic trivial froth.

    Change the bloody record, releasing the pearls from your grasp as you do so.
    You seem to have a problem with anything you may think compromises the government, and then throw in your childish response about someone clutching pearls, or cash is nonsense, or 172 seat majority, or something else all of which are so predictable

    You cannot close down newstories you do not like no matter how much you huff and puff
    Change the record.
    Good advice - you should take it
    The greater puzzle is why senior politicians are so desperate to see a Taylor Swift concert. Are we governed by 12 year old girls?
    I thought the "grown ups are back in charge".
    Cookie is ill-informed if he believes that 12 year old girls are the main cohort of Swifties! But, more to the point, Swift's favourability ratings are way higher than any politicians, so if you're a politician, you want to associate yourself with her in the hope some of that popularity will rub off.
    I guess it is no different to Blair ingratiating himself with the Cool Britannia Britpop lot.
    At least the Cool Britannia Britpop lot were making music aimed at adults.

    I don't want to diss Swift. She's clearly talented. Music for 12 year old girls doesn't write itself; certainly not music which 12 year old girls will buy into like never before. But it's still music for 12 year old girls. Sure, there are adults along to accompany them or for the experience of an event, but actually to enjoy the music?
    Taylor Swift does not write music for 12 year old girls. She is beloved across many demographics: see https://business.yougov.com/content/48990-8-fascinating-insights-on-taylor-swifts-american-fanbase

    Half of the fan base are women (52%), but men are not too far behind at 48%. The demographics reveal a uniform distribution across various age groups, with 34% of Americans aged 18-44 rating her ‘strongly positive’.

    And https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/

    Some 53% of U.S. adults said they were fans of Swift, and 16% identified themselves as “avid” fans of the star. [...]

    Some 45% of avid fans are millennials, people between the ages of 27 and 42, while 23% are baby boomers, 21% are Gen Xers and just 11% are members of Gen Z—those 26 and under.


    We are close to the 18th anniversary of Taylor Swift's first album, released when she was 16. But she's now 34 and her fans are older too. We can see Swift has grown up with her audience. For example, there is the much quoted analysis showing the increasing number of swear words in her albums over time: https://digg.com/data-viz/link/taylor-swift-swears-per-album-reddit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,364
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    If HYUFD is right (and I think this is an area he is pretty good on) then Jenrick right now represents outstanding trading value.

    Though personally I think the odds probably represent what the insiders now know.
    The 'insiders' know sod all unless they are all Tory MPs with a vote this afternoon!

    I would expect most Tugendhat backers to go to Cleverly but it is perfectly possible most of the remainder go to Jenrick not Badenoch
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,585
    One of my must-read writers.

    "Machine politics in the age of Starmer
    The Prime Minister’s image as a pragmatist belies the ideological reality of his administration.
    By John Gray"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/09/machine-politics-keir-starmer-age
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,961

    FPT...

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Metropolitan Police deny they were put under pressure to give Taylor Swift a blue light convoy at taxpayers expenses by Khan and Cooper

    Apparently they both received Taylor Swift gifted tickets and here lies the problem in perception, fairly or not

    Jesus. What moronic trivial froth.

    Change the bloody record, releasing the pearls from your grasp as you do so.
    You seem to have a problem with anything you may think compromises the government, and then throw in your childish response about someone clutching pearls, or cash is nonsense, or 172 seat majority, or something else all of which are so predictable

    You cannot close down newstories you do not like no matter how much you huff and puff
    Change the record.
    Good advice - you should take it
    The greater puzzle is why senior politicians are so desperate to see a Taylor Swift concert. Are we governed by 12 year old girls?
    I thought the "grown ups are back in charge".
    Cookie is ill-informed if he believes that 12 year old girls are the main cohort of Swifties! But, more to the point, Swift's favourability ratings are way higher than any politicians, so if you're a politician, you want to associate yourself with her in the hope some of that popularity will rub off.
    I guess it is no different to Blair ingratiating himself with the Cool Britannia Britpop lot.
    At least the Cool Britannia Britpop lot were making music aimed at adults.

    I don't want to diss Swift. She's clearly talented. Music for 12 year old girls doesn't write itself; certainly not music which 12 year old girls will buy into like never before. But it's still music for 12 year old girls. Sure, there are adults along to accompany them or for the experience of an event, but actually to enjoy the music?
    Taylor Swift does not write music for 12 year old girls. She is beloved across many demographics: see https://business.yougov.com/content/48990-8-fascinating-insights-on-taylor-swifts-american-fanbase

    Half of the fan base are women (52%), but men are not too far behind at 48%. .

    Oh noes - 52:48....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,364
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, is Kemi the odds-on favourite again?

    Some of us might have predicted this yesterday.

    She’s going up like a Russian ammo dump.

    Badenoch is basically a black Liz Truss, the idea she is the answer to Tory problems is absurd.

    She won't win back voters from Farage and she risks losing 2024 Tory voters to the LDs much more than the other 2 given her higher unfavourables with them
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,209
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    If HYUFD is right (and I think this is an area he is pretty good on) then Jenrick right now represents outstanding trading value.

    Though personally I think the odds probably represent what the insiders now know.
    The 'insiders' know sod all unless they are all Tory MPs with a vote this afternoon!

    I would expect most Tugendhat backers to go to Cleverly but it is perfectly possible most of the remainder go to Jenrick not Badenoch
    It wouldn't be ENTIRELY unheard of for the markets to be moved by those with inside knowledge putting a bet on...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,603
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, is Kemi the odds-on favourite again?

    Some of us might have predicted this yesterday.

    She’s going up like a Russian ammo dump.

    Badenoch is basically a black Liz Truss, the idea she is the answer to Tory problems is absurd.

    She won't win back voters from Farage and she risks losing 2024 Tory voters to the LDs much more than the other 2 given her higher unfavourables with them
    Badenoch and Cleverly are head and shoulders less unpleasant than Jenrick. Fingers crossed!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,834
    edited 1:20PM
    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,234
    I've not followed this contest in detail but would comment that Jenrick came across poorly on TV. He imitates Cameron's attempts to project authority, but the promises are to do all the stuff that the same people have just failed to do for the last 14 years. If the aim is to target reform voters, that will be the rebuttal. I have a sense that Badenoch would make more progress in terms of creating something new that appeals to younger voters; a reinvention of the conservative party, rather than just a tweaked 'business as usual', I suppose the key to success is to make her gaffes part of her political style rather than evidence of weakness.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,352
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    If HYUFD is right (and I think this is an area he is pretty good on) then Jenrick right now represents outstanding trading value.

    Though personally I think the odds probably represent what the insiders now know.
    The 'insiders' know sod all unless they are all Tory MPs with a vote this afternoon!

    I would expect most Tugendhat backers to go to Cleverly but it is perfectly possible most of the remainder go to Jenrick not Badenoch
    Tugendhat backers going to Cleverly makes sense. Cleverly is surely through. Whether he gets 49 or 54 doesn't matter. What matters is whether 2 more Tugendhat supporters back Badenoch than back Jenrick... and whether any supporters of Cleverly, Jenrick or Badenoch change their mind.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,486
    In Hurricane News, Milton is not weakening as much as the forecast implied, but is starting to look asymmetric due to shear and the eye is not as well defined. The heat engine is getting less efficient.

    Probably Cat3 at landfall but with a Cat5 storm surge.

    Prepare for Lake Tampa...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239
    My only worry about Cleverly is that he's very soft on China, I'd hope that Tom T gets a big role as shadow foreign secretary after his decent run in the leadership election and to keep Cleverly honest on China.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,364

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, is Kemi the odds-on favourite again?

    Some of us might have predicted this yesterday.

    She’s going up like a Russian ammo dump.

    Badenoch is basically a black Liz Truss, the idea she is the answer to Tory problems is absurd.

    She won't win back voters from Farage and she risks losing 2024 Tory voters to the LDs much more than the other 2 given her higher unfavourables with them
    Jenrick is basically a sleazy Liz Truss, the idea he is the answer to Tory problems is absurd.
    Jenrick actually has sensible ideas on new homes, reducing immigration etc. Badenoch just wants a culture war on woke
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,603
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    You might meet some new friends who could
    entertain you in Paquis.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,075
    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,703
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Pop around the lakeside to Ouchy in Lausanne.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,352
    darkage said:

    I've not followed this contest in detail but would comment that Jenrick came across poorly on TV. He imitates Cameron's attempts to project authority, but the promises are to do all the stuff that the same people have just failed to do for the last 14 years. If the aim is to target reform voters, that will be the rebuttal. I have a sense that Badenoch would make more progress in terms of creating something new that appeals to younger voters; a reinvention of the conservative party, rather than just a tweaked 'business as usual', I suppose the key to success is to make her gaffes part of her political style rather than evidence of weakness.

    I think all 3 have flaws. However, I would suggest Badenoch's frequent gaffes do reflect her underlying beliefs and I wonder whether these are too extreme for most voters.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,209
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, is Kemi the odds-on favourite again?

    Some of us might have predicted this yesterday.

    She’s going up like a Russian ammo dump.

    Badenoch is basically a black Liz Truss, the idea she is the answer to Tory problems is absurd.

    She won't win back voters from Farage and she risks losing 2024 Tory voters to the LDs much more than the other 2 given her higher unfavourables with them
    Yeah, but as (can't remember who - sorry) said yesterday, Kemi is riz.
    A factor we overlook because it's rare, and because we are politics massive geeks and can't therefore see the wood for the trees.
  • NickyBreakspearNickyBreakspear Posts: 764
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Visit Cern?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,973
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Sounds as though, with a budget as low as £400, it isn't advisable to go there and that's great because there are much better places to visit with that money.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,423
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239
    edited 1:29PM
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    The way my wife describes it that you never know if you're going to get run over by some idiot with diplomatic immunity in a hit and run, or for women sexually assaulted etc...

    Edit - In your place I'd get the train to Lyon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779
    Eabhal said:

    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?

    It’ll be bigger than RAF gate than last week.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,799
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Why not see how far you can get with your free Geneva Transport Card and have a drink wherever you end up?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,234
    Andy_JS said:

    One of my must-read writers.

    "Machine politics in the age of Starmer
    The Prime Minister’s image as a pragmatist belies the ideological reality of his administration.
    By John Gray"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/09/machine-politics-keir-starmer-age

    John Gray is one of my favourite writers. What he described in the 1990's just gets proved right over and over again. It is worth subscribing to the new statesman just to read these monthly articles.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,834

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Pop around the lakeside to Ouchy in Lausanne.
    I like Lausanne. I like Zurich. I REALLY like Lucerne. I like almost all the towns in Ticino

    But not Geneva - it’s the worst of Germany France and Switzerland itself in one go
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 150

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    Agree with this. Lending votes is strategically daft and tactically risky. If he were to get caught doing it I daresay the membership would vote for him out of spite. His best chance is being seen as the number one choice (by a long way) of the parliamentarians.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,882
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Pop around the lakeside to Ouchy in Lausanne.
    I like Lausanne. I like Zurich. I REALLY like Lucerne. I like almost all the towns in Ticino

    But not Geneva - it’s the worst of Germany France and Switzerland itself in one go
    Bern is a bit crap as I remember. I was a kid. Even the eponymous bears seemed a bit over it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,162
    The US is fucked.

    "Do you think pineapple belongs on pizza?"

    Yes: 43%
    No: 37%

    No Opinion: 17%

    Cygnal / Oct 3, 2024 / n=1500

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1843850085677052320
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239
    Nigelb said:

    The US is fucked.

    "Do you think pineapple belongs on pizza?"

    Yes: 43%
    No: 37%

    No Opinion: 17%

    Cygnal / Oct 3, 2024 / n=1500

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1843850085677052320

    I wonder how that breaks out by VI...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,882
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,643
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Damn the new thread.

    You’ve got two options: one is a museums tour, the other involves getting out your personal credit card for an agreeable young lady and her friend the pharmacist.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,352

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    Agree with this. Lending votes is strategically daft and tactically risky. If he were to get caught doing it I daresay the membership would vote for him out of spite. His best chance is being seen as the number one choice (by a long way) of the parliamentarians.
    I agree it would look good for Cleverly to have a clear lead. If he could end up with 60 versus 30 each for the other two, that looks great. Except... he'd be more convincing as the number one choice of the parliamentarians if he hadn't come third in the first ballot!

    Indeed, it doesn't look good for the Tories' opposition to SV (which they recently removed from mayoral elections) that they're close to picking a top two that excludes the candidate who got the most first preferences by far in that first round.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,075
    Folks, we have another Post Office:

    https://x.com/SamMarkWill/status/1843731064025690266?t=OTsL834QrL0VGjtbpKjcQw&s=19

    Add to this private parking fines and TV licensing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,605
    Looking at the first leadership election in 2022, a simplistic reading of the change in votes between rounds would suggest half of Tugendhat's support going to Truss in that contest, so I'm not sure that the assumptions about Cleverly benefiting overwhelmingly from his elimination are correct.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,234

    darkage said:

    I've not followed this contest in detail but would comment that Jenrick came across poorly on TV. He imitates Cameron's attempts to project authority, but the promises are to do all the stuff that the same people have just failed to do for the last 14 years. If the aim is to target reform voters, that will be the rebuttal. I have a sense that Badenoch would make more progress in terms of creating something new that appeals to younger voters; a reinvention of the conservative party, rather than just a tweaked 'business as usual', I suppose the key to success is to make her gaffes part of her political style rather than evidence of weakness.

    I think all 3 have flaws. However, I would suggest Badenoch's frequent gaffes do reflect her underlying beliefs and I wonder whether these are too extreme for most voters.
    She is very vulnerable to misrepresentation by the 'mainstream media', she doesn't seem to fight back particularly well. She should be accusing them of being government propogandists or new world order conspiracy theorists.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,382
    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    I definitely wish I had chosen Zurich over Geneva.

    It’s very dodge and dangerous at night if not careful. Many friends mugged there and girl friends harassed by gangs of men.

    It’s good at the height of summer as the park around the lake is constant fetes, bars, food etc.

    Maybe take a trip to an area called Carouge which is a pretty district given to the king of Sicily and so has streets and squares of Italianate architecture and little bars and art galleries.

    Also if you are saving money go to the student area in Planpalais rather than tourist or banker/diplomat central areas.

    Otherwise the villages south of the lake leading to French border were lovely to live in.

    If you had money I would say just go to Montreux up the lake.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,518
    I don't think it's in Cleverly's interests to lend out any votes to anyone. It's too clever ;) by half at this point to do anything other than maximise his MP lead against either Badenoch or Bobby J.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779
    edited 1:39PM
    Nigelb said:

    The US is fucked.

    "Do you think pineapple belongs on pizza?"

    Yes: 43%
    No: 37%

    No Opinion: 17%

    Cygnal / Oct 3, 2024 / n=1500

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1843850085677052320

    F rated pollster from now on.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,164
    darkage said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of my must-read writers.

    "Machine politics in the age of Starmer
    The Prime Minister’s image as a pragmatist belies the ideological reality of his administration.
    By John Gray"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/09/machine-politics-keir-starmer-age

    John Gray is one of my favourite writers. What he described in the 1990's just gets proved right over and over again. It is worth subscribing to the new statesman just to read these monthly articles.
    Always interesting but I struggle often to discern what he is in favour of as opposed to what he is against.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,834
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    I definitely wish I had chosen Zurich over Geneva.

    It’s very dodge and dangerous at night if not careful. Many friends mugged there and girl friends harassed by gangs of men.

    It’s good at the height of summer as the park around the lake is constant fetes, bars, food etc.

    Maybe take a trip to an area called Carouge which is a pretty district given to the king of Sicily and so has streets and squares of Italianate architecture and little bars and art galleries.

    Also if you are saving money go to the student area in Planpalais rather than tourist or banker/diplomat central areas.

    Otherwise the villages south of the lake leading to French border were lovely to live in.

    If you had money I would say just go to Montreux up the lake.
    Even the cathedral is shite. Zero noom. Maybe anti-noom

    Possibly the worst cathedral I’ve ever been in, and I’ve been to Guildford
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    I definitely wish I had chosen Zurich over Geneva.

    It’s very dodge and dangerous at night if not careful. Many friends mugged there and girl friends harassed by gangs of men.

    It’s good at the height of summer as the park around the lake is constant fetes, bars, food etc.

    Maybe take a trip to an area called Carouge which is a pretty district given to the king of Sicily and so has streets and squares of Italianate architecture and little bars and art galleries.

    Also if you are saving money go to the student area in Planpalais rather than tourist or banker/diplomat central areas.

    Otherwise the villages south of the lake leading to French border were lovely to live in.

    If you had money I would say just go to Montreux up the lake.
    Summer in Lugano is better than anywhere else in Switzerland IMO, Geneva is still very low on the list of places to visit even in the summer. We've got a few house viewings in Lugano lined up for the end of October when we're going to CH prices are a bit higher than where I live in London but you get a bit more for your money, a few of the places we're looking at have got good sized gardens and swimming pools which we could never have in London.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,364
    darkage said:

    I've not followed this contest in detail but would comment that Jenrick came across poorly on TV. He imitates Cameron's attempts to project authority, but the promises are to do all the stuff that the same people have just failed to do for the last 14 years. If the aim is to target reform voters, that will be the rebuttal. I have a sense that Badenoch would make more progress in terms of creating something new that appeals to younger voters; a reinvention of the conservative party, rather than just a tweaked 'business as usual', I suppose the key to success is to make her gaffes part of her political style rather than evidence of weakness.

    Jenrick actually has the ideas on building new affordable homes, controlling immigration etc.

    All Badenoch wants is a war on woke and a war with the civil service which will be toxic to most younger voters
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,605
    Eabhal said:

    Folks, we have another Post Office:

    https://x.com/SamMarkWill/status/1843731064025690266?t=OTsL834QrL0VGjtbpKjcQw&s=19

    Add to this private parking fines and TV licensing.

    Kafka would be proud.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    If the members had elected him instead of Truss from the off I think we'd have ended up with a hung parliament as the Tories would have held on to their economic trust rating that Liz Truss threw away. Voters put up with a lot of shit if they think you will keep them in their jobs and a roof over their heads.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,603

    Eabhal said:

    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?

    It’ll be bigger than RAF gate than last week.
    Fair play to BigG and Sky News. They have got all the big calls right; Currygate, Goonergate, RAFgate and TaylorSwiftgate*.

    *Although Jenrick just got a pasting on LBC for TaylorSwiftgate.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,230
    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,688

    Eabhal said:

    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?

    It’ll be bigger than RAF gate than last week.
    Fair play to BigG and Sky News. They have got all the big calls right; Currygate, Goonergate, RAFgate and TaylorSwiftgate*.

    *Although Jenrick just got a pasting on LBC for TaylorSwiftgate.
    And you, seemingly, will defend anyone-but-Tories over everything. No-one ever does anything wrong; unless they're Tories, in which case they're automagically guilty. ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    Kemi has got the momentum and is more transfer friendly from Tom T backers. I think she'd quickly end up being a Liz Truss rerun but maybe upscaled to 4K.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,605
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    If the members had elected him instead of Truss from the off I think we'd have ended up with a hung parliament as the Tories would have held on to their economic trust rating that Liz Truss threw away. Voters put up with a lot of shit if they think you will keep them in their jobs and a roof over their heads.
    It was also the process of defenestrating Truss, so soon after the members had elected her, that gave Reform the first boost to their opinion poll scores.

    If Sunak had been elected from the off then Reform may have remained moribund.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    Piss poor speech at conference, Kemi saying that Jenrick is really a centrist, and Dave, George privately canvassing for James Cleverly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,643
    edited 1:53PM
    In case anyone wants to know why “Miss Piggy” is trending, it’s the nickname of the US government’s atmospheric research plane which is currently having their definition of “fun”, going into the washing-machine that is Milton just off the Florida coast.

    https://x.com/noaa_hurrhunter/status/1843706785401843941

    Those pilots and crew have rather large balls. God speed.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,230

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    Piss poor speech at conference, Kemi saying that Jenrick is really a centrist, and Dave, George privately canvassing for James Cleverly.
    Ta sir. I would be delighted if he didn't make the final two.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 694
    edited 1:54PM

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    For all the theories about it being his price lengthening, what's actually happening if you follow the volume is all the money being put on Kemi and the market staying rational in those terms. One may object this is a semantic difference but I don't think so - if you assume it's insiders moving it you should look at which tail is wagging which dog (or whatever).

    I also want this to be true, desparately - but I've also backed Jenrick at 8 and will again (up till about 3:15) at silly prices if we get there.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,232

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    Is the current membership the same as the previous membership or have a lot of the Boris fans and Brexiteers allowed their subscriptions to lapse?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,168

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    If the members had elected him instead of Truss from the off I think we'd have ended up with a hung parliament as the Tories would have held on to their economic trust rating that Liz Truss threw away. Voters put up with a lot of shit if they think you will keep them in their jobs and a roof over their heads.
    It was also the process of defenestrating Truss, so soon after the members had elected her, that gave Reform the first boost to their opinion poll scores.

    If Sunak had been elected from the off then Reform may have remained moribund.
    Reform are not a reaction to Truss’s defenestration.
    To Johnson’s, maybe.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    Piss poor speech at conference, Kemi saying that Jenrick is really a centrist, and Dave, George privately canvassing for James Cleverly.
    Ta sir. I would be delighted if he didn't make the final two.
    Same, I'd eat a pizza with pineapple on it if it meant he didn't make the final two.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,220
    Andy_JS said:

    One of my must-read writers.

    "Machine politics in the age of Starmer
    The Prime Minister’s image as a pragmatist belies the ideological reality of his administration.
    By John Gray"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/09/machine-politics-keir-starmer-age

    https://web.archive.org/web/20240927191233/https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/09/machine-politics-keir-starmer-age

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779
    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    darkage said:

    I've not followed this contest in detail but would comment that Jenrick came across poorly on TV. He imitates Cameron's attempts to project authority, but the promises are to do all the stuff that the same people have just failed to do for the last 14 years. If the aim is to target reform voters, that will be the rebuttal. I have a sense that Badenoch would make more progress in terms of creating something new that appeals to younger voters; a reinvention of the conservative party, rather than just a tweaked 'business as usual', I suppose the key to success is to make her gaffes part of her political style rather than evidence of weakness.

    Jenrick actually has the ideas on building new affordable homes, controlling immigration etc.

    Except where Richard Desmond is concerned.

    Please, it is Dirty Desmond, not Richard Desmond.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,162
    Internal polling, but still.

    Looks close to a tossup to me, but you can get on him at around 3/1 with a little patience (thinnish market on Betfair).

    Nebraska Net Favorables:

    Osborn: +14%
    Fischer: -8%

    Impact Research / Oct 3, 2024 / n=600

    (Osborn Internal)

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1843780269956083976
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    Is the current membership the same as the previous membership or have a lot of the Boris fans and Brexiteers allowed their subscriptions to lapse?
    A lot have left for Reform, some have died and new entrants into the party align closer to Cleverly than Kemi but there's still a huge number of people who voted for Liz Truss still kicking about who will take up with the next loon if they promise to take Britain back to the 80s with no mat leave and no minimum wage because that's the era they "made it" in and young people today have no idea what a hard day's work is or something along those lines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,162
    Net Favorables:

    Harris: +1%
    Trump: -6%

    NYT/Siena / Oct 6, 2024 / n=3385

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1843802001613979954
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,643

    Afternoon folks. Hope you are all having a fine day.

    Apologies I have been out geophys surveying an old manor house today so have missed the latest news. Can anyone explain why it is that Jenrick's value is collapsing? I mean, I am delighted but why has he suddenly become so unlikely to make the final two compared to Badenoch?

    Piss poor speech at conference, Kemi saying that Jenrick is really a centrist, and Dave, George privately canvassing for James Cleverly.
    Ta sir. I would be delighted if he didn't make the final two.
    Same, I'd eat a pizza with pineapple on it if it meant he didn't make the final two.
    Better order it now then.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,242

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    Pop around the lakeside to Ouchy in Lausanne.
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    @MaxPB

    You’re right. Geneva is surprisingly meh. The lakeside setting is pleasant but not as lovely as many other Swiss cities. The old town is Ho-hum. It’s hideously expensive and yet with a sketchy edge. It’s more menacing than Pristina!

    It’s also quite boring. There really isn’t much to do

    5/10

    I definitely wish I had chosen Zurich over Geneva.

    It’s very dodge and dangerous at night if not careful. Many friends mugged there and girl friends harassed by gangs of men.

    It’s good at the height of summer as the park around the lake is constant fetes, bars, food etc.

    Maybe take a trip to an area called Carouge which is a pretty district given to the king of Sicily and so has streets and squares of Italianate architecture and little bars and art galleries.

    Also if you are saving money go to the student area in Planpalais rather than tourist or banker/diplomat central areas.

    Otherwise the villages south of the lake leading to French border were lovely to live in.

    If you had money I would say just go to Montreux up the lake.
    Even the cathedral is shite. Zero noom. Maybe anti-noom

    Possibly the worst cathedral I’ve ever been in, and I’ve been to Guildford
    All Swiss cathedrals seem to be a bit like that. Lausanne too, despite its decent setting.

    I’ve spent a lot of my working life going to and from Geneva. I agree with everyone, it’s meh. So are the villages along the lake on the North shore until you get to around Nyon and the views of Mont Blanc appear. My favourite region was the East near Vevey and Montreux.

    In other budget travel news I am in the channel tunnel on an empty shuttle train on my way to the French house and have just had the most ridiculously quick check in and departure experience ever.

    I’m so used to sitting in a series of queues at the Chunnel as we travel in school holidays. Not today. Came off the motorway 2.26. Through check in, both lots of passport control and on to the train 2.34. 8 minutes. Train started rolling 2.46. All things being equal that’s exiting the M20 to joining the autoroute des anglais in less than an hour.

    My French border guard was particularly impressive as she found what is now a very scarce empty page in my old burgundy passport to stamp within about 5 seconds. I’m getting close to having to order a new one unless they stop stamping soon.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,239

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    If the members had elected him instead of Truss from the off I think we'd have ended up with a hung parliament as the Tories would have held on to their economic trust rating that Liz Truss threw away. Voters put up with a lot of shit if they think you will keep them in their jobs and a roof over their heads.
    It was also the process of defenestrating Truss, so soon after the members had elected her, that gave Reform the first boost to their opinion poll scores.

    If Sunak had been elected from the off then Reform may have remained moribund.
    Reform are not a reaction to Truss’s defenestration.
    To Johnson’s, maybe.
    I think it's both. She came into power promising to do all of the things that Reform were saying they'd do wrt tax cuts and then she got ejected by the MPs so the chunk of Tory voters who aligned with that began to vote Reform after that. If she had not been voted in they'd never have had that impetus in the first place. Far, far fewer voters would have gone over without Truss showing that the Tories weren't going to implement policies for Reform.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,234

    Eabhal said:

    Folks, we have another Post Office:

    https://x.com/SamMarkWill/status/1843731064025690266?t=OTsL834QrL0VGjtbpKjcQw&s=19

    Add to this private parking fines and TV licensing.

    Kafka would be proud.
    It's a nightmare.

    A a few years ago I had a ticket from St Pancras to Sheffield but due to an incident the lines were closed and there was a ticket acceptance in place.

    I went from next door at King's Cross to Doncaster on LNER then Doncaster to Sheffield on a Northern service.

    The conductor on the LNER service was fine, no issues.

    On the Northern leg I was threatened will all sorts as I didn't have a valid ticket for Doncaster to Sheffield, conductor threatened me with all of the above and only backed down when I showed him Northern's social media account which said there was a ticket acceptance in place.
    The bug in the system seems to reside with the revenue control Inspectors when they randomly show up, and are trained/programmed to to through every detail possible with no empathy or discretion with the purpose of detecting 'fraud'; in a system so complex that no one seems to understand it, and where even the ticket machines give out the wrong information.
    This then results in these absurd prosecutions, which are themselves highly vulnerable to post office / Grenfell style uproar.
    It would save a lot of money and grief for politicians to just disrupt the circuit now and impose a different model / way of doing things on the rail industry.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,882
    edited 2:01PM
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit of good news for Jenrick.

    "Nick Timothy MP
    @NJ_Timothy

    I supported Tom Tugendhat for the Tory leadership until he was knocked out today. I will vote for Rob Jenrick tomorrow. My party needs to be unsparing in its analysis of why we lost and what we must do next. Rob has shown his willingness to do that, so he has my full support."

    https://x.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1843714939896377856

    Indeed, punters can say what they want but most Tugendhat backers I know are backing Jenrick or Cleverly.

    Tim Montgomerie has also now switched from Tugendhat to Jenrick, given Badenoch was already behind Jenrick in the last round she urgently needs more Tugendhat backers, especially as Cleverly may also lend some votes to Jenrick to knock her out
    https://x.com/montie/status/1843944885306732980
    Cleverly won't lend any votes - he will want to be seen as the clear leader amongst MPs, and dare the membership to vote the other way.
    You don't know the members that well, there's still loads of them that are seething about Liz Truss being forced to resign and Rishi being installed without their (our) consent. Cleverly shouldn't be banking on the members doing him any favours, he'll need to win every single one of their votes.
    At least they will have been placated when he did as asked and secured that cherished election victory that was so central to his bid.
    If the members had elected him instead of Truss from the off I think we'd have ended up with a hung parliament as the Tories would have held on to their economic trust rating that Liz Truss threw away. Voters put up with a lot of shit if they think you will keep them in their jobs and a roof over their heads.
    I think he'd have been found out as useless and shit as at roughly the same timescale as he was in the event, so who knows how low the Tories polling could have gone?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,242
    Unpopular opinion on the test. We need the occasional batting wicket borefest draw. Modern test matches are usually done in 3-4 days and I think they’re giving bowlers an easy ride. It develops bowlers’ skill to have to toil in hard conditions and winkle out a wicket from time to time. It also tests captains in different ways.

    Plus it’s great for batsmen’s test averages. A nice occasional top up opportunity.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,703

    Eabhal said:

    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?

    It’ll be bigger than RAF gate than last week.
    Fair play to BigG and Sky News. They have got all the big calls right; Currygate, Goonergate, RAFgate and TaylorSwiftgate*.

    *Although Jenrick just got a pasting on LBC for TaylorSwiftgate.
    What on God's green Earth is RAFgate?

    Is this more or less world-shattering than Swiftgate and Currygate?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,603

    Eabhal said:

    Have we done Starmer's uncle was on the Belgrano yet?

    It’ll be bigger than RAF gate than last week.
    Fair play to BigG and Sky News. They have got all the big calls right; Currygate, Goonergate, RAFgate and TaylorSwiftgate*.

    *Although Jenrick just got a pasting on LBC for TaylorSwiftgate.
    And you, seemingly, will defend anyone-but-Tories over everything. No-one ever does anything wrong; unless they're Tories, in which case they're automagically guilty. ;)
    Here you go again. As far as I am aware other than a late submission, Starmer has done nothing contrary to the rules. Now whether the rules are inappropriate and Starmer is a hypocrite are pertinent but different questions.

    I believe one of the current Tory candidates failed to acknowledge his wife's free tickets to the Women's World Cup in Sydney. I don't care about that. I don't care about Mrs Bamford paying for Johnson's home delivered dinner or wallpaper paid for by Lord Brownlow. Johnson by the way complained of Starmer's greedy freebies just yesterday. What I do care about is PPE contract fast lanes and Foreign Secretaries attending Bunga Bunga Parties with KGB officers and over ruling planning in favour of Richard Desmond. One is froth, one is corruption.

    When I defend non-Conservative corruption you will have a point.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,457

    FPT...

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    Metropolitan Police deny they were put under pressure to give Taylor Swift a blue light convoy at taxpayers expenses by Khan and Cooper

    Apparently they both received Taylor Swift gifted tickets and here lies the problem in perception, fairly or not

    Jesus. What moronic trivial froth.

    Change the bloody record, releasing the pearls from your grasp as you do so.
    You seem to have a problem with anything you may think compromises the government, and then throw in your childish response about someone clutching pearls, or cash is nonsense, or 172 seat majority, or something else all of which are so predictable

    You cannot close down newstories you do not like no matter how much you huff and puff
    Change the record.
    Good advice - you should take it
    The greater puzzle is why senior politicians are so desperate to see a Taylor Swift concert. Are we governed by 12 year old girls?
    I thought the "grown ups are back in charge".
    Cookie is ill-informed if he believes that 12 year old girls are the main cohort of Swifties! But, more to the point, Swift's favourability ratings are way higher than any politicians, so if you're a politician, you want to associate yourself with her in the hope some of that popularity will rub off.
    I guess it is no different to Blair ingratiating himself with the Cool Britannia Britpop lot.
    At least the Cool Britannia Britpop lot were making music aimed at adults.

    I don't want to diss Swift. She's clearly talented. Music for 12 year old girls doesn't write itself; certainly not music which 12 year old girls will buy into like never before. But it's still music for 12 year old girls. Sure, there are adults along to accompany them or for the experience of an event, but actually to enjoy the music?
    Taylor Swift does not write music for 12 year old girls. She is beloved across many demographics: see https://business.yougov.com/content/48990-8-fascinating-insights-on-taylor-swifts-american-fanbase

    Half of the fan base are women (52%), but men are not too far behind at 48%. .

    Oh noes - 52:48....
    "Half of the fan base are women (52%), but men are not too far behind at 48%" - the not far behind bit is a case of stating the bleeding obvious, unless there's a very large non-binary Swift following.

    Surprising that no boys or girls are fans though :wink:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,688
    Sandpit said:

    In case anyone wants to know why “Miss Piggy” is trending, it’s the nickname of the US government’s atmospheric research plane which is currently having their definition of “fun”, going into the washing-machine that is Milton just off the Florida coast.

    https://x.com/noaa_hurrhunter/status/1843706785401843941

    Those pilots and crew have rather large balls. God speed.

    Or, if you read other places, the tinfoil-hatters have it that they're somehow causing, or powering up, the hurricane.

    But yes, the guys (and gals?) in those planes are braver than I am. It's also interesting that it's a prop-driven airplane rather than a jet. expense, or are prop-driven planes less susceptible to such violent weather effects (flameouts?)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,232
    The Rest is Entertainment looks at Boris's new book and comparing it with other PMs' memoirs. Apparently some people at Harper Collins think it will sell as well as Prince Harry's, which sold 400,000 in a week. There's also a special edition based on fantasy novels. £2 million advance and £1 million from the Mail.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6331qRVJiwo

    TRiE seems to have scooped The Rest is Politics and The Rest is Football.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,779
    darkage said:

    Eabhal said:

    Folks, we have another Post Office:

    https://x.com/SamMarkWill/status/1843731064025690266?t=OTsL834QrL0VGjtbpKjcQw&s=19

    Add to this private parking fines and TV licensing.

    Kafka would be proud.
    It's a nightmare.

    A a few years ago I had a ticket from St Pancras to Sheffield but due to an incident the lines were closed and there was a ticket acceptance in place.

    I went from next door at King's Cross to Doncaster on LNER then Doncaster to Sheffield on a Northern service.

    The conductor on the LNER service was fine, no issues.

    On the Northern leg I was threatened will all sorts as I didn't have a valid ticket for Doncaster to Sheffield, conductor threatened me with all of the above and only backed down when I showed him Northern's social media account which said there was a ticket acceptance in place.
    The bug in the system seems to reside with the revenue control Inspectors when they randomly show up, and are trained/programmed to to through every detail possible with no empathy or discretion with the purpose of detecting 'fraud'; in a system so complex that no one seems to understand it, and where even the ticket machines give out the wrong information.
    This then results in these absurd prosecutions, which are themselves highly vulnerable to post office / Grenfell style uproar.
    It would save a lot of money and grief for politicians to just disrupt the circuit now and impose a different model / way of doing things on the rail industry.
    What they've done for years at Manchester Piccadilly is put the revenue protection officers at the barriers, if you do not have a valid ticket you pay them.

    There is an issue when the trains are late and you have a ticket for an off peak ticket and your delayed/cancelled train arrives in peak time.
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