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Yes we Kem? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,536

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    Not sure about Tryl being "Labour-friendly". He's a former Spad from Tory years working for Nicky Morgan.

    Not that makes a difference to the point he is making.

    Starmer has gone nuts if he thinks this GiftGate behaviour isn't going to screw them when they need every ounce of political capital to turn the mess around.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911
    edited September 19
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,667

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain | Bagehot
    The bungee-jumping, sandal-clad right-wingers of British politics
    If the Liberal Democrats want to replace the Conservatives, they must move further right on the economy "

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2024/09/18/the-bungee-jumping-sandal-clad-right-wingers-of-british-politics

    Been saying this for weeks.
    Yes and they won't which is why I think the Tories can recover a fair amount of the lost ground from the Lib Dems in the south, especially when Labour put up taxes and they don't oppose it.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,899

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I don't think its anywhere near close total replacing humans. Its the gets you 80% of the way there is the issue. Thus, I don't think all the jobs are going, rather you don't need as many people / the amount you can charge for the work is lesser.

    The social contract of 50% of people, go to uni, get a decent degree in something, get a white collar job, buy a house, have a family, is already very strained....
    Yes, but it's also less that the top 20% of people in these threatened professions will survive, and more, to borrow a footballing analogy, how do you keep the pyramid going.

    As a grad I knew nothing, and being somewhere in the top 20% of people for what I do was a long journey from know nothing to what I know now. I gained those skills by being able to ply my trade in much more junior roles.

    If the junior roles are all taken by AI... no new grads rise to the level of seniority, and the knowledge simply dies out. Or becomes a weird, obscure craft, like being a smithy and making horseshoes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,308

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    Not sure about Tryl being "Labour-friendly". He's a former Spad from Tory years working for Nicky Morgan.

    Not that makes a difference to the point he is making.

    Starmer has gone nuts if he thinks this GiftGate behaviour isn't going to screw them when they need every ounce of political capital to turn the mess around.


    It seems to me that there might be more to come with Lord Alli's pad and its regular use by Starmer. It is eerily reminiscent of Lord Archer's penthouse and its regular use by Hague.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited September 19
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    I don't think they are going away anything soon, because government will prop them up. It become this huge industry that government can't allow to fail and it bumps 3-4 years worth of potential unemployed people down the line. Also, even with all this tech, generally people are very unmotivated to learn for themselves and there is still a need for some sort of standardising qualification.

    You have been able to learn basically what every uni teaches (except the very top ones where the real SOTA research is disseminated) for many years already. And top unis tried all those MOOPs things and they basically failed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    I don't think they are going away anything soon, because government will prop them up. It become this huge industry that government can't allow to fail and it bumps 3-4 years worth of potential unemployed people down the line.
    But you can’t force people to go to uni and take on all that debt. You can’t create customers that aren’t there

    I guess the govt could go back to PAYING students to go to uni - but no way we could afford that for 50% of 18 year olds

    However you shake it, higher education is about to shrink dramatically. Entire unis will close
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    See the Bank decided to be cautious on interest rates. Not surprising, they only seem comfortable when they are behind the curve.

    I think our economy needs a bit more help to offset the damage Reeves is doing to it. We can grow faster than this but we need fewer road blocks.
  • Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Let’s hope Quadrature’s owner hasn’t suggested Kemi Badenoch should be shot.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,935
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain | Bagehot
    The bungee-jumping, sandal-clad right-wingers of British politics
    If the Liberal Democrats want to replace the Conservatives, they must move further right on the economy "

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2024/09/18/the-bungee-jumping-sandal-clad-right-wingers-of-british-politics

    Been saying this for weeks.
    Yes and they won't which is why I think the Tories can recover a fair amount of the lost ground from the Lib Dems in the south, especially when Labour put up taxes and they don't oppose it.
    If I may politely disagree. The Libs triumph when they do nothing or - ideally - agree to both sides of an argument ("We must build more houses! But not in constituency X!"). They are absolutely crucified when they take a position since that just annoys people. Their current niche of embodying the principles and prejudices of the upper-middle class whilst not actually doing anything worked wonders. All they have to do is just stand there, kiss babies and say nice things about old folks homes while Conservative and Reform kick lumps out of each other. I'm sure they can find something anodyne to argue about ("Lets move Parliament to York while we refurbish Westminster") that upsets nobody.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    edited September 19
    If all the stars align and Kamala and Kemi win, and Cameron is reinstated as FS, then at some G7 meeting or something, we could have Kem Kam Sam Cam.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited September 19
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    I don't think they are going away anything soon, because government will prop them up. It become this huge industry that government can't allow to fail and it bumps 3-4 years worth of potential unemployed people down the line.
    But you can’t force people to go to uni and take on all that debt. You can’t create customers that aren’t there

    I guess the govt could go back to PAYING students to go to uni - but no way we could afford that for 50% of 18 year olds

    However you shake it, higher education is about to shrink dramatically. Entire unis will close
    That is what I mean by the government propping them up. Forget AI, the uni sector is too large, 130+ unis, we really don't need that many, and many are very poor. And as Nick Clegg says far too focus on providing the wrong skills.

    My argument for as long as I have been on PB is that the UK model is way too rigid, basically outside a small number of people, everybody who goes at 18, goes full time and away from home. Most of Europe doesn't do this, it far too expensive, unless you are top level, you go local, live with your parents, work part-time. US has community colleges and big push to stay in state / more local / work.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    It’s nothing to do with his ambition. It’s his sense of entitlement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911

    If all the starts align and Kamala and Kemi win, and Cameron is reinstated as FS, then at some G7 meeting or something, we could have Kem Kam Sam Cam.

    But what if they all bicker coz they don’t get on coz Kem is jealous of Sam who thinks Kam is after Cam?

    Then someone turns that into a comic movie and you’ve got the Kem Kam Sam Cam Haz Chem Rom Com
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,899
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    All my university education taught me was how to cite the right papers, i.e. regurgitate the course material, into essay format, so I could quote what other people thought about things.

    My degrees look good on a CV and, if I'm feeling a bit vain, make me look vaguely intellectual. But it's mostly status signalling. And they were tuppence ha'penny in my day compared to what they cost now.

    In terms of real world value, there's very little. I certainly wouldn't get into 50k of debt for one.
  • Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well if they had shares in oil then they were being bloody stupid donating to Labour. The regret will have been very rapid I suspect.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Let’s hope Quadrature’s owner hasn’t suggested Kemi Badenoch should be shot.
    You think they’re really Tories?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    Leon said:

    If all the starts align and Kamala and Kemi win, and Cameron is reinstated as FS, then at some G7 meeting or something, we could have Kem Kam Sam Cam.

    But what if they all bicker coz they don’t get on coz Kem is jealous of Sam who thinks Kam is after Cam?

    Then someone turns that into a comic movie and you’ve got the Kem Kam Sam Cam Haz Chem Rom Com
    Absurd. Cam isn't Kam's type at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited September 19
    I wonder if Sky will keep a focus on Starmer in his private box at Arsenal like the US TV does with Taylor Swift at NFL games?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    All my university education taught me was how to cite the right papers, i.e. regurgitate the course material, into essay format, so I could quote what other people thought about things.

    My degrees look good on a CV and, if I'm feeling a bit vain, make me look vaguely intellectual. But it's mostly status signalling. And they were tuppence ha'penny in my day compared to what they cost now.

    In terms of real world value, there's very little. I certainly wouldn't get into 50k of debt for one.
    Yes quite

    This doesn’t please me because Britain is good at Higher Education and I think universities are intrinsically a good thing - for kids and for wider society

    I just don’t see how the business model works in the future. They are going to implode. A few prestigious ones will survive and maybe thrive, most of the average provincial ones will disappear

    A bit like what happened to newspapers, in fact
  • viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Britain | Bagehot
    The bungee-jumping, sandal-clad right-wingers of British politics
    If the Liberal Democrats want to replace the Conservatives, they must move further right on the economy "

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2024/09/18/the-bungee-jumping-sandal-clad-right-wingers-of-british-politics

    Been saying this for weeks.
    Yes and they won't which is why I think the Tories can recover a fair amount of the lost ground from the Lib Dems in the south, especially when Labour put up taxes and they don't oppose it.
    If I may politely disagree. The Libs triumph when they do nothing or - ideally - agree to both sides of an argument ("We must build more houses! But not in constituency X!"). They are absolutely crucified when they take a position since that just annoys people. Their current niche of embodying the principles and prejudices of the upper-middle class whilst not actually doing anything worked wonders. All they have to do is just stand there, kiss babies and say nice things about old folks homes while Conservative and Reform kick lumps out of each other. I'm sure they can find something anodyne to argue about ("Lets move Parliament to York while we refurbish Westminster") that upsets nobody.
    And the Lib Dems will happily oppose Labour on the difficult stuff, like raising taxes, even when it's the right thing to do.

    Because why shouldn't they? The clue is on the name Opposition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    It’s nothing to do with his ambition. It’s his sense of entitlement.
    Yes exactly. He OOZES entitlement

    I’m surprised he hasn’t actually said “don’t you know who I am??” in response to these allegations. In his thin reedy voice and with a wince of priggish superiority
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,422
    edited September 19
    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    All my university education taught me was how to cite the right papers, i.e. regurgitate the course material, into essay format, so I could quote what other people thought about things.

    My degrees look good on a CV and, if I'm feeling a bit vain, make me look vaguely intellectual. But it's mostly status signalling. And they were tuppence ha'penny in my day compared to what they cost now.

    In terms of real world value, there's very little. I certainly wouldn't get into 50k of debt for one.
    We are heading into a world where being a dustman or women will require a degree in ecological sciences. That is the best protection for universities. Until we accept how little they do in terms of preparation for the world of work they will be fine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I’ve been pitching ideas about the “end of universities” to my editors at the Knappers Gazette. They refuse to consider any of them, despite taking lots of other ideas

    Intrigued, I’ve been asking them why they are so resistant. The main reason is because they think I’m wrong. Universities will be fine. On further investigation, their reason for thinking I’m wrong boils down to “we hope you’re wrong and we don’t want to think about a world where you’re right”

    Trouble is, I’m right. AI is a mortal threat to the entire higher education system. No one will take on £50k of debt to be educated for jobs that no longer exist, and also when AI can deliver the same education for a fraction of the price

    A small subset of rich kids will go to “uni” for the social skills they can learn, and for fun; most won’t, because they won’t want the debt
    All my university education taught me was how to cite the right papers, i.e. regurgitate the course material, into essay format, so I could quote what other people thought about things.

    My degrees look good on a CV and, if I'm feeling a bit vain, make me look vaguely intellectual. But it's mostly status signalling. And they were tuppence ha'penny in my day compared to what they cost now.

    In terms of real world value, there's very little. I certainly wouldn't get into 50k of debt for one.
    Yes quite

    This doesn’t please me because Britain is good at Higher Education and I think universities are intrinsically a good thing - for kids and for wider society

    I just don’t see how the business model works in the future. They are going to implode. A few prestigious ones will survive and maybe thrive, most of the average provincial ones will disappear

    A bit like what happened to newspapers, in fact
    We had it right when less than 10% went to University. Unfortunatly Major and Blair both saw increasing University numbers as a way of getting youth unemployment numbers down. They also failed to understand the principle of dilution. The more people who have a degree, the less intrinsicly valuable that qualification becomes.
    Yep. Now add to that a world where mid-level cognitive jobs are vanishing, so a degree has little to no use as a means of getting a career

    Boom. Universities collapse
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,287
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,287
    Andy_JS said:

    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.

    He was just on our local Tyne tees news.

    Unimpressive really
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,193
    Andy_JS said:

    The Evening Standard was one of the last things left in London that created a very slight feeling of a sense of community between people who might otherwise not have anything in common. Sometimes you used to see about half the people sitting in tube carriages reading it until relatively recently, ie. 15 years ago.

    Covid killed it. I mean, it wasn't doing amazingly well before but most people picked up a Metro on the way in and Standard on the way home before and you'd hear the rustles round the carriage.

    After 2021, that just totally died away.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,193

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    I think, for him, it's just a well-deserved career move.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    Yes. It's incredible what the GOP has become.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    edited September 19

    I wonder if Sky will keep a focus on Starmer in his private box at Arsenal like the US TV does with Taylor Swift at NFL games?

    Well it’s more interesting than watching the Arsenal.

    Not worth watching since Thierry Henri left.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,250

    Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well if they had shares in oil then they were being bloody stupid donating to Labour. The regret will have been very rapid I suspect.
    IIRC all hedge funds (to a first approximation) are headquartered in tax havens - if they weren’t their clients would be taxed twice. A hedge fund trading oil & arms company shares is also not exactly surprising.

    Starmer taking money from finance is (potentially) a story. Acting shocked that the company in question is headquartered in a tax haven & trades everything on the market is journalistic pearl clutching.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited September 19
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well if they had shares in oil then they were being bloody stupid donating to Labour. The regret will have been very rapid I suspect.
    IIRC all hedge funds (to a first approximation) are headquartered in tax havens - if they weren’t their clients would be taxed twice. A hedge fund trading oil & arms company shares is also not exactly surprising.

    Starmer taking money from finance is (potentially) a story. Acting shocked that the company in question is headquartered in a tax haven & trades everything on the market is journalistic pearl clutching.
    I remember all the outrage that Cameron's father fund was in a tax haven.....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.

    He was just on our local Tyne tees news.

    Unimpressive really
    Yeah, he is. It’s just unfortunate that the Tories had plunged new depths of crapness in the last few years.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    The whole American Dream of dad going out to work from the white picket fence suburbs every morning and mom shagging travelling salesmen depended on an endless supply of b ark jobs for dad to go out to. Think Mr Incredible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,859

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    Yup

    What’s Blair’s wealth now? Plus Blair invented a job for himself where no even looks at his freebies, now.
  • On topic, it's probably fair enough that Kemi sees herself as unposh. Compared to Dave, Boris, Rishi, she is. But in the grand scheme of things, the daughter of a globetrotting academic is still pretty elite.

    And I can see why some want a feisty aggressive leader of the opposition. But aggression has to be pinpoint accurate to work, and a lot of the time she isn't.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,271

    Farage says he won't hold any in-person constituency surgeries: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nigel-farage-constituency-surgeries-clacton-on-sea-knives/

    Can you blame him? Having to rub shoulders with the generationally unemployed burghers of Clacton and Jaywick. Ugh!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911
    Something more cheering

    The King shares my fondness for Gerard Manley Hopkins!

    Also, he has a really good warm speaking voice, excellent for reciting poetry. Better than his mother

    https://x.com/kulambq/status/1836468406259978315?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    AI is going to be used for a whole heap of things where it's not as good as people think it is, but it's good enough, or at least no-one is going to check too closely at how good/bad it is.

    Who is going to sift through CVs manually now?
    Ah yes. Putting fictional qualifications such as MBA or PhD in white text on a white background in a job application.
    A human won't see them, but a computer will.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752

    Farage says he won't hold any in-person constituency surgeries: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/nigel-farage-constituency-surgeries-clacton-on-sea-knives/

    Can you blame him? Having to rub shoulders with the generationally unemployed burghers of Clacton and Jaywick. Ugh!
    Pretty strong evidence he is not planning to stand again already. Doesn’t even care to hide it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,149
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Selebian said:

    If Kam wins (and again in four years) and Kem wins (and then, in five years, wins again) then I guess we'll all be discussing the Kam-Kem chem (or lack thereof) after their first meeting :smile:

    I am now rooting so hard for Kemi for that reason alone.

    Fair enough - but what if they DON’T get on? What if their chemistry is, I dunno, kind of… hazardous?
    How on earth would we refer to their relationship THEN?
    In that situation didn’t Suzi Quattro advise you to Kem the Kam
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,250

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Er, what? How much more of this is yet to emerge?


    “Labour given £4m from tax haven-based hedge fund with shares in oil and arms

    Quadrature’s donation is noteworthy not just for being Labour’s largest-ever, but for its timing ahead of election”

    https://x.com/markseddon1962/status/1836413324830867492?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Well if they had shares in oil then they were being bloody stupid donating to Labour. The regret will have been very rapid I suspect.
    IIRC all hedge funds (to a first approximation) are headquartered in tax havens - if they weren’t their clients would be taxed twice. A hedge fund trading oil & arms company shares is also not exactly surprising.

    Starmer taking money from finance is (potentially) a story. Acting shocked that the company in question is headquartered in a tax haven & trades everything on the market is journalistic pearl clutching.
    I remember all the outrage that Cameron's father fund was in a tax haven.....
    It was pearl clutching then too, mostly.

    There is a reason to criticise tax havens & it’s the lack of transparency of ownership that these places offer. But that doesn’t really matter to a hedge fund that is there to service clients rather than shareholders - they wouldn’t have to publicly disclose who their client investors were if they were headquartered in the US or the UK either.

    (Family offices are a different matter - they locate in tax havens for the privacy they offer & probably to play tax games on top.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,859
    edited September 19
    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    On topic, it's probably fair enough that Kemi sees herself as unposh. Compared to Dave, Boris, Rishi, she is. But in the grand scheme of things, the daughter of a globetrotting academic is still pretty elite.

    And I can see why some want a feisty aggressive leader of the opposition. But aggression has to be pinpoint accurate to work, and a lot of the time she isn't.

    They need someone who will make them feel better and not alienate former supporters too much at the same time.

    Is she the best for that? IDK, but she's not among the worst either.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    Leon said:

    Something more cheering

    The King shares my fondness for Gerard Manley Hopkins!

    Also, he has a really good warm speaking voice, excellent for reciting poetry. Better than his mother

    https://x.com/kulambq/status/1836468406259978315?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I find it strange that just two years down the road QE2 seems really quite odd. Not a good reciter of poetry at least.

    I'm really quite pleased for Charles that his reign is going quite well. I've no love for the man, but after waiting so long it'd have been rotten for things to go wrong for him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Dim politicians is meant to be solved by them being good performers (think most actors who think they are also activists) and having good civil servants and advisers supply them with the right words so we don't notice.

    So if he is dim, it's a bigger issue than one man.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928
    Andy_JS said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    It only takes a 4.3% swing for Labour to lose its majority at the next election.

    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/defence/labour
    I think by midterm we could have some bonkers 4 way polling including Reform. Would say there is money to be made, except that it’s a brave man who thinks they can predict where it ends up. We can probably exclude the idea of a Reform led Gvt, but not much else.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    Andy_JS said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    It only takes a 4.3% swing for Labour to lose its majority at the next election.

    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/defence/labour
    I don’t think there are any safe seats now. The next election will surely be exciting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,859


    Too soon?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,149
    kenObi said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning and FPT

    I’ve had problems in recent travels with Santander and Halifax and Barclay all questioning and stopping Visa and Mastercard payments. It’s because they can’t believe someone would travel this much - so they think it’s fraudulent. This despite me telling them my job involves frequent travel. Maddening

    The one card that works every time? Often my last hope? Amex

    If you want stupidity and credit cards.

    I have a paid for Lloyds Global Travel card that gives priority security and free lounge access. I don't use it abroad because they have a 3% surcharge on foreign currency transactions. So I use a Halifax Clarity card in such circumstances.
    Hah
    Do you use airport lounges, Leon? I'm going with 'yes'.

    I travelled with someone last year who had business class while I was economy (as always) and he managed to
    get me into one as his guest. Free food and drinks was nice I guess but it was rammed and we couldn't find a seat. I'd much rather had gone to Pret.
    If you have BA Gold status, you have access to some brilliant lounges (The Pier, Hong Kong) regardless of what class you are travelling. (as long as its oneworld)
    Other Oneworld alliance lounges (Cathay, Qatar) will normally be miles better than BA

    The lounges available to priority pass ("free" with some credit cards / banks) will probably be full in the UK & if they do let you in (you're bottom of the pile) will often be dire.
    Sadly you need to be GGL these days to get anything from BA

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
    At least Lammy has a warmth and likeability. Unlike Starmer and Reeves

    I’m wondering if they are the most charmless PM and COTE combo in living memory. You’d have to go back to maybe Major and Lamont, but even Major had an ordinary man vibe and was less prickly than Starmer
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,072

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I don't think its anywhere near close total replacing humans. Its the gets you 80% of the way there is the issue. Thus, I don't think all the jobs are going, rather you don't need as many people / the amount you can charge for the work is lesser.

    The social contract of 50% of people, go to uni, get a decent degree in something, get a white collar job, buy a house, have a family, is already very strained....
    When AI does all the work so no employees are needed, who buys all the stuff to keep the wheels turning?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928



    Too soon?

    I have seen a lot darker, very funny stuff, which I won’t post here because it’s 2024 and I’d probably go the jail.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,287
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.

    He was just on our local Tyne tees news.

    Unimpressive really
    Yeah, he is. It’s just unfortunate that the Tories had plunged new depths of crapness in the last few years.
    Yes my wife is on hand to remind me of that and she’s right.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.

    He was just on our local Tyne tees news.

    Unimpressive really
    Yeah, he is. It’s just unfortunate that the Tories had plunged new depths of crapness in the last few years.
    Yes my wife is on hand to remind me of that and she’s right.
    If you compare the first 2010 or 1997 cabinets to the current bunch or the shadow front bench, it really is night and day.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
    At least Lammy has a warmth and likeability. Unlike Starmer and Reeves

    I’m wondering if they are the most charmless PM and COTE combo in living memory. You’d have to go back to maybe Major and Lamont, but even Major had an ordinary man vibe and was less prickly than Starmer
    Obviously Truss and Zahawi.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,287
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
    At least Lammy has a warmth and likeability. Unlike Starmer and Reeves

    I’m wondering if they are the most charmless PM and COTE combo in living memory. You’d have to go back to maybe Major and Lamont, but even Major had an ordinary man vibe and was less prickly than Starmer
    I found Truss very unlikeable and lacking in any qualities but Kwarteng quite charismatic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,911
    edited September 19
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
    At least Lammy has a warmth and likeability. Unlike Starmer and Reeves

    I’m wondering if they are the most charmless PM and COTE combo in living memory. You’d have to go back to maybe Major and Lamont, but even Major had an ordinary man vibe and was less prickly than Starmer
    Obviously Truss and Zahawi.
    Truss was madcap fun and Zahawi had warmth

    Completely useless of course, but not as charmless as Reeves and Starmer. Which was my point
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Dim politicians is meant to be solved by them being good performers (think most actors who think they are also activists) and having good civil servants and advisers supply them with the right words so we don't notice.

    So if he is dim, it's a bigger issue than one man.
    But our Civil Service is the best in the world! They tell us so, constantly. Publicly spirited, willing to forgo the riches of the private sector for a mere £150k a year (plus a pension worth the thick end of £2m), how can you possibly doubt their expertise? /s
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    Odd thing to say a few week after winning a 170 seat majority.

    He was just on our local Tyne tees news.

    Unimpressive really
    Yeah, he is. It’s just unfortunate that the Tories had plunged new depths of crapness in the last few years.
    Yes my wife is on hand to remind me of that and she’s right.
    If you compare the first 2010 or 1997 cabinets to the current bunch or the shadow front bench, it really is night and day.
    Labour are simply astonishingly weak in terms of experience in their ranks. All these MPs that they have are almost all tokens rather than real MPs. The SNP started such things, but Labour are now far worse.

    Consider the appointment of Louise Haigh at transport.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928
    edited September 19
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Dim politicians is meant to be solved by them being good performers (think most actors who think they are also activists) and having good civil servants and advisers supply them with the right words so we don't notice.

    So if he is dim, it's a bigger issue than one man.
    But our Civil Service is the best in the world! They tell us so, constantly. Publicly spirited, willing to forgo the riches of the private sector for a mere £150k a year (plus a pension worth the thick end of £2m), how can you possibly doubt their expertise? /s
    1) It probably is the best in the world over all.

    2) A lot of the more senior folk could probably earn more elsewhere.

    3) It could be a lot better, has failed on many fronts, and needs some restructuring for the new century.

    Several things can be true at once.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    edited September 19
    Interesting.

    I'm hearing that the Student Rental Market may be softer at the edges for the 25-26 academic year, and that some marginal property has not rented well this year.

    That's to do with both student demand, and property supply. Obviously it varies by city.

    Ten years ago in one of my local cities, newly build private student halls full of added-value services built in a splurge were offering up to 10-12% cashback on advertised rents to get students in, over a period of several years.

    My photo quota for the day:

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,517
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I've retired except for translation and chairing my constituency CLP. I've wondered whether the translation work (mostly for the European Commission) will go, since they send a 95% correct draft translation, but although the pay per word has gone down the pay per hour remains decent (about £50/hour, with a minimum of £17.50 even if it's a single sentence) for zipping through the drafts, filling in the 5% and spotting any errors. It's a nice little retirement earner and I think they reckon the human eye is still important as you do occasinally catch the system totally misunderstanding something.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    DavidL said:

    I wonder if Sky will keep a focus on Starmer in his private box at Arsenal like the US TV does with Taylor Swift at NFL games?

    Well it’s more interesting than watching the Arsenal.

    Not worth watching since Thierry Henri left.
    SKS has accepted freebies to Taylor Swift concerts not once but
    twice.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    Leon said:

    If all the starts align and Kamala and Kemi win, and Cameron is reinstated as FS, then at some G7 meeting or something, we could have Kem Kam Sam Cam.

    But what if they all bicker coz they don’t get on coz Kem is jealous of Sam who thinks Kam is after Cam?

    Then someone turns that into a comic movie and you’ve got the Kem Kam Sam Cam Haz Chem Rom Com
    If she has a toxic relationship with Prince Harry - cos he's so woke which she hates - it'd be a case of Haz Kem.

    Lol 🙂🙂 - that's a cracker by me
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I've retired except for translation and chairing my constituency CLP. I've wondered whether the translation work (mostly for the European Commission) will go, since they send a 95% correct draft translation, but although the pay per word has gone down the pay per hour remains decent (about £50/hour, with a minimum of £17.50 even if it's a single sentence) for zipping through the drafts, filling in the 5% and spotting any errors. It's a nice little retirement earner and I think they reckon the human eye is still important as you do occasinally catch the system totally misunderstanding something.
    That’s the perfect example of the opportunities in AI. Ideally we can live in a world where someone doing what you do can earn the same, focus on the most interesting bits, and be 500% more productive because the AI does the basics for you. In essence, everyone has a small team.
  • A nun caught me dipping my balls in holy water.

    She told me I was sack-religious.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    Plus some rather low grade politicians on all sides.

    For example -

    1) problem - MPs turning out to be shits. Answer (for me) a sane vetting process. If they run a company selling complex derivatives on the value of nerve gas, nuclear weapons and rental flats - at least give them a second level vetting

    2) problem - politicians taking dodgy looking donations. Answer (for me) - anything over £50 is reported immediately to a vetting committee. On pain of losing the whip.

    3) problem - foreign sec talking out of arse. Solution - vet everything through advisors.
    Lammy seems to be genuinely dim. Not sure how you fix that
    Watch Yes Minister. He needs house training.
    At least Lammy has a warmth and likeability. Unlike Starmer and Reeves

    I’m wondering if they are the most charmless PM and COTE combo in living memory. You’d have to go back to maybe Major and Lamont, but even Major had an ordinary man vibe and was less prickly than Starmer
    Obviously Truss and Zahawi.
    Truss was madcap fun and Zahawi had warmth

    Completely useless of course, but not as charmless as Reeves and Starmer. Which was my point
    I would happily spend an evening in a pub with Reeves and Starmer, and I'd run a mile from such an evening with Truss and Zahawi - admittedly it's only Truss who I'd want to avoid.

    Anyway, charm is over-rated - look what it's done to you!
  • Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    Yup

    What’s Blair’s wealth now? Plus Blair invented a job for himself where no even looks at his freebies, now.
    I linked to interview with Nick Clegg down thread, I wonder what his salary his?
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    This is from a Labour-friendly pollster

    “Can honestly say having heard the anger from the public about these sorts of issues in focus group after focus group this line is wishful thinking. It’s also surprising given Starmer really seemed to get it isn’t just about policy, it’s about restoring faith in politics.”

    “The sense of one rule or that politicians are in it for the perks is toxic not just to one party but faith in politics itself. It’s what is driving people to the extremes and is why mainstream parties are struggling to get above 30%.”

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1836682241847541812?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Starmer and Labour have utterly soiled the bed in the first 3 months. Impressive

    And of course Starmer has made it clear he will carry on taking the freebies. Plus we have a painful budget incoming, where all of us are going to get stiffed for more tax (plus a load of new sin taxes).
    The really stupid thing about Starmer’s tawdry sponging is the paucity of ambition. If he kept his nose clean for a few years he could have awarded some big contracts and got himself a 'foundation' a la Tone. The way his premiership is going, he's chucking that all away for some silly spectacles.
    It’s nothing to do with his ambition. It’s his sense of entitlement.
    Yes exactly. He OOZES entitlement

    I’m surprised he hasn’t actually said “don’t you know who I am??” in response to these allegations. In his thin reedy voice and with a wince of priggish superiority
    He'll be wanting us to call him "Sir" next.
  • DavidL said:

    I wonder if Sky will keep a focus on Starmer in his private box at Arsenal like the US TV does with Taylor Swift at NFL games?

    Well it’s more interesting than watching the Arsenal.

    Not worth watching since Thierry Henri left.
    SKS has accepted freebies to Taylor Swift concerts not once but
    twice.
    Glutton for punishment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,536
    edited September 19
    We seem to be shifting quite quickly through the gears on the Gordon Brown Redux show:


    The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,887
    edited September 19

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I've retired except for translation and chairing my constituency CLP. I've wondered whether the translation work (mostly for the European Commission) will go, since they send a 95% correct draft translation, but although the pay per word has gone down the pay per hour remains decent (about £50/hour, with a minimum of £17.50 even if it's a single sentence) for zipping through the drafts, filling in the 5% and spotting any errors. It's a nice little retirement earner and I think they reckon the human eye is still important as you do occasinally catch the system totally misunderstanding something.
    Nice to see a post from you, Nick.

    Can you translate Mr Trump's speeches into English? :smile:
  • Australia walking the cricket.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011


    Too soon?

    Hmm ok - that's a rip off of the famous Gerry Adams one though.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    I’m amazed that he thinks he has some God-given right to watch the football.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    biggles said:

    Do we just have to get used to the idea that something about the mix of social media in place of news, and the complexity of the underlying issues, means mega swings at elections for a while?

    It really is easy to imagine Labour losing its majority in one go after this start.

    It only takes a 4.3% swing for Labour to lose its majority at the next election.

    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/defence/labour
    I don’t think there are any safe seats now. The next election will surely be exciting.
    A few years to wait though, Rob.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,579
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I don't think its anywhere near close total replacing humans. Its the gets you 80% of the way there is the issue. Thus, I don't think all the jobs are going, rather you don't need as many people / the amount you can charge for the work is lesser.

    The social contract of 50% of people, go to uni, get a decent degree in something, get a white collar job, buy a house, have a family, is already very strained....
    Yes, but it's also less that the top 20% of people in these threatened professions will survive, and more, to borrow a footballing analogy, how do you keep the pyramid going.

    As a grad I knew nothing, and being somewhere in the top 20% of people for what I do was a long journey from know nothing to what I know now. I gained those skills by being able to ply my trade in much more junior roles.

    If the junior roles are all taken by AI... no new grads rise to the level of seniority, and the knowledge simply dies out. Or becomes a weird, obscure craft, like being a smithy and making horseshoes.
    If that is the way things go soon we will have mass gangs of Luddites breaking into corporations and smashing up their robotics and machinery. Our politics would be dominated by a socialist big state left on one side and a nationalist, pro tariff, anti big corporation and anti immigration right on the other. Centrist and free market liberal parties would be lucky to get 10% of the vote
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928

    We seem to be shifting quite quickly through the gears on the Gordon Brown Redux show:


    The prime minister has insisted he is “completely in control” after the BBC revealed a row within government over staff pay.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyvg1y170xo

    I understand that the board has complete confidence in the manager.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727

    A nun caught me dipping my balls in holy water.

    She told me I was sack-religious.

    I asked an AI to review all your prior posts and rank this one against them. It really is your best yet!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,455

    Andy_JS said:

    The Evening Standard was one of the last things left in London that created a very slight feeling of a sense of community between people who might otherwise not have anything in common. Sometimes you used to see about half the people sitting in tube carriages reading it until relatively recently, ie. 15 years ago.

    Covid killed it. I mean, it wasn't doing amazingly well before but most people picked up a Metro on the way in and Standard on the way home before and you'd hear the rustles round the carriage.

    After 2021, that just totally died away.
    Everybody on the train is looking at their phone.

    Says man on train.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928
    RobD said:

    I’m amazed that he thinks he has some God-given right to watch the football.
    My wife and I said this. There was a version where he just said “oh well, I can’t go every week any more, but you can’t expect to be able to do everything as PM”.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,536
    FFS. How have they got into this mess before even reaching the autumn equinox?


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    2h
    “Why don’t you buy your own suits?” asked BBC Yorks. “The important thing in all of this is that we follow the rules”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,865
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    We always were allowed to talk about AI. The ban was only for one poster.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    I had forgotten we've labour conference to look forward to. Klouseau's keynote is a must watch, and lady K's presence or absence, outfit and body language.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited September 19
    biggles said:

    RobD said:

    I’m amazed that he thinks he has some God-given right to watch the football.
    My wife and I said this. There was a version where he just said “oh well, I can’t go every week any more, but you can’t expect to be able to do everything as PM”.
    Starmer is reaction to this is keeping the story going. The lawyerly "I have been moved to other seats" so I can continue to keep going every match.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,928

    FFS. How have they got into this mess before even reaching the autumn equinox?


    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    2h
    “Why don’t you buy your own suits?” asked BBC Yorks. “The important thing in all of this is that we follow the rules”

    This is going to be his “thing” isn’t it? Take the fuel allowance from people but live in luxury yourself off freebies. I never would have guessed he’d fall into that trap.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,536
    biggles said:

    RobD said:

    I’m amazed that he thinks he has some God-given right to watch the football.
    My wife and I said this. There was a version where he just said “oh well, I can’t go every week any more, but you can’t expect to be able to do everything as PM”.
    I'm less bothered by the footy than the clothing shite.

    There's at least a stab of an argument about security and god knows we seem to be in world where whackos are everywhere but the need for someone else to buy a pair of glasses and a suit? Come on - he's a highly paid lawyer/politician/party leader.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    AnneJGP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I don't think its anywhere near close total replacing humans. Its the gets you 80% of the way there is the issue. Thus, I don't think all the jobs are going, rather you don't need as many people / the amount you can charge for the work is lesser.

    The social contract of 50% of people, go to uni, get a decent degree in something, get a white collar job, buy a house, have a family, is already very strained....
    When AI does all the work so no employees are needed, who buys all the stuff to keep the wheels turning?
    An excellent question. If the "technology revolution" turns out anywhere near the hype it's going to require enlightened activist government to prevent the enrichment of the few at the expense of the many.

    So no change there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,579
    AnneJGP said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Claude at the moment is the best LLM IMO. For all the hype over ChatGPT o1, I just found that it sits and "thinks" for ages and the result isn't actually much better. At best its stopping you manually saying, do this, then this, at worst because it is trying to take many steps itself, it goes off down the wrong path and you wait 30s+ for it to pump out nonsense.

    Yes. Apparently o1 is great at maths and coding but as I don’t care about maths or coding that whizzes past me

    For words, Claude is still best by a fair stretch. Also the context window on ChatGPT remains relatively tiny

    As it seems I am temporarily allowed to discuss AI - I’d note that I’ve seen people all over the world quietly using it, and many hyper aware of all developments. The revolution is happening but it’s sotto voce. A lot of people don’t want their employers to know they are using it

    For these and other reasons I wouldn’t bet against AI. It is coming and it is inevitable. Betting against it is like betting against electricity in 1895
    I have found the opposite, its shit at coding, its really infuriating. But I am not asking it to code flappy birds game or a web app. As for maths, I have asked it some things that aren't that complicated (I am not a mathematician, but I do lots of maths) and it has done very poorly.
    I yield to your experience in these matters

    Gemini is often overlooked. It has a massive context window and seems to be improving over time

    Frankly, they are all amazing and if you showed them to people in 2014 or 2004 they’d say Wow so that’s AGI

    It’s the boiling frog thing
    Oh don't get me wrong, I think if you have 100-120 IQ and do very repetitive white collar role and quite low down in the company hierarchy, I would be very concerned for my future. I actually think those that have lower IQ are far better insulated against this tech because they are much more likely to be in vocational jobs that robotics are nowhere near doing their work.

    But o1 at least I have found massively underwhelming for my use cases. Its like asking an undergraduate who if they don't know the answer doesn't say I don't know or I think the answer is, it gives you a 10 minute BS talk all about it.
    Are we allowed to talk about AI here again, then?

    In which case.

    Those of us "golgafrincham b ark" types whose main grift in life has been to shuffle papers and produce reports are doomed.

    I do a lot of strategy consultancy work for startups and I feed my meeting notes into Claude (as others have noted, the best of the current bunch) and it largely spits out what I would. Not as good, but probably 70-80% of the way there. So why pay me thousands for my time when you're on a tight budget and the chatbot gets you 70-80% of the way there?

    Well, I like to think the extra 20% is the difference between the startups I work with that succeed, and the guys who use chatbot answers and don't. But this is not quite 2 years into the AI revolution, and at the current pace, I will be outclassed within the next few years. If I'm lucky. The next few months, if I'm not.

    I consider myself fortunate to be financially secure. Because if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I would be looking at the bread line in a few years, much as a coal miner in the 90s. A completely obsolescent skill set.
    I don't think its anywhere near close total replacing humans. Its the gets you 80% of the way there is the issue. Thus, I don't think all the jobs are going, rather you don't need as many people / the amount you can charge for the work is lesser.

    The social contract of 50% of people, go to uni, get a decent degree in something, get a white collar job, buy a house, have a family, is already very strained....
    When AI does all the work so no employees are needed, who buys all the stuff to keep the wheels turning?
    Those with IQs high enough to work in well paid tech jobs or creative enough not to be automated out. Everyone else via their universal basic incomes funded by inevitable robot taxes
This discussion has been closed.