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How Betfair has reacted to the second round – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,360

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I’ve done that trip. Take the Natchez Parkway, it’s brilliant

    And it ends in Nawlins which is probably the most seductive city in North America
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,097
    mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    Omnium said:

    I would warn everyone not to give too much weight to UK polling companies in the US election. Their record is not good over there. Ipsos is the possible exception. They can give trends but hoping they will predict the result is optimistic to say the least

    I don't think Brits have a fucking clue about US politics, and we're not very good about it.

    Things like Hollywood tweets, the Daily Show or celebrity endorsements would be like posting The Mash Report or Joe or Dua Lipa over here as representative of "the vibe".

    They're not.
    There seems to be a bit of an internal contradiction in your post.
    Not saying I do either, I regularly get it wrong, but I know a bubble and group think when I see it.
    Which bubble? Which groupthink?

    SFAICS UK opinion, so far as the UK is interested, thinks that the POTUS election is very close (see the betting markets) and that the USA is politically and culturally divided and isn't good at the moment at finding common ground.

    And that America's style of democracy is under strain because there isn't, as there is in the UK, a wholehearted sense of 'losers consent' to whatever the result will be.

    The UK is short of people who will rationally explain and defend Trump's approach to things which belong to democracy (suchn as 6th January) without tortuous special pleading because from a UK cultural perspective it can't be done. This renders Trump and Trumpism particularly accountable for the problems USA democracy is in.

    No bubble. No groupthink.
    Incoherent. UK thought "from a UK cultural perspective" about US affairs is a paradigm of bubbly groupthink.

    You can be a lot more robust about Trump, he is a shit and a bully and a traitor and January 6 was wrong by absolute standards, bugger all to do with "cultural norms." BUT what is also wrong is 1. the assumption that KH is going to be a better president just because she is obviously (to an Englishman sitting in Tunbridge Wells) 1,000 x as nice as a person, and 2. the inability to understand that to say an outcome (like a trump presidency) is likely or possible is not the same thing as saying that the outcome is desirable. And 3. while I am at it, the inability to see, even after the event, that toppling Biden on the basis of his obvious senility was an ANTI Trump move.
    Thanks. I enjoyed this rich outpouring very much. Robustness has its place, but so does quiet consideration. Cultural norms are a reality, and it is false not to take account of them. Your points (1) and (2) are so obvious that they are possibly redundant. As to 'absolute standards' I am Kantian enough to think there are some, but trying to topple the state, oddly, isn't one of them. I am secret disciple of Thomas Hobbes and the strong man theory of government. There are states that deserve to be toppled. IMHO the next Trump regime (I think we are going to get one) may be one of them. Wait and see.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,815
    Tetchy tonight.

    Casino trying to tell us what we should be posting again. Nope.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Hitch a ride on a riverboat queen? Busted flat in Baton Rouge, waiting for a train?

    I am always amazed by US classics students who come over here and are impressed by stuff like Athens and Rome and Syracuse. How does that even compare with Ventura Highway and Route 66 and Lodi and Sunset & Vine?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,097

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,815
    There's a great story for some journalist here.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Reines
    ...2016
    In the debate preparations for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election, Reines stood in for Donald Trump.[23] CBS commented that Reines is "known for his bullish, combative personality—traits that often mirror Trump’s personal debate style".
    2024
    Similar to his role in 2016, Reines assisted Kamala Harris with her debate preparations.[24] Reines again reprised his role playing Trump in mock debates.[25]..


    First post since 2023:
    https://x.com/PhilippeReines/status/1833850281613787390
    to do:

    facial
    haircut
    spiritual cleanse

  • algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
  • mercator said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Envious. In March I am doing a 4 day trip from Ushuaia to Puntas Arenas just so I can say I have achieved virtually nothing in life but at least I have rounded Cape Horn.
    It should be a wonderful experience
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,470
    Nigelb said:

    Tetchy tonight.

    Casino trying to tell us what we should be posting again. Nope.

    Casino has these angry turns occasionally- through tiredness, stress, etc. He eventually calms down and comes round.
  • Nigelb said:

    Tetchy tonight.

    Casino trying to tell us what we should be posting again. Nope.

    Casino has these angry turns occasionally- through tiredness, stress, etc. He eventually calms down and comes round.
    Why so patronising
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,763
    edited September 11
    mercator said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Envious. In March I am doing a 4 day trip from Ushuaia to Puntas Arenas just so I can say I have achieved virtually nothing in life but at least I have rounded Cape Horn.
    I hope you get a chance to see some of the Tierra del Feugo National Park. When I went from Ushaia to Antarctica, the Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties and Screaming Sixties were like a millpond.

    Then we got to Antarctica and had the first storm of the season. Force 11, minus 50C with the windchill and two days dodging icebergs before we could make a break towards Elephant Island and on to South Georgia. It was, er, eventful!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,048
    edited September 11

    mercator said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Envious. In March I am doing a 4 day trip from Ushuaia to Puntas Arenas just so I can say I have achieved virtually nothing in life but at least I have rounded Cape Horn.
    I hope you get a chance to see some of the Tierra del Feugo National Park. When I went from Ushaia to Antarctica, the Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties and Screaming Sixties were like a millpond.

    Then we got to Antarctica and had the first storm of the season. Force 11, minus 50C with the windchill and two days dodging icebergs before we could make a break towards Elephant Island and on to South Georgia. It was, er, eventful!
    We experienced a katabatic wind event in South Georgia that hit the ship like a sledge hammer before moving past

    All part of the experience but would not want to have been out in the open on land
  • 57.5 million watched the Harris v Trump debate
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    Made me :lol:


    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump

    Tulsi Gabbard deserves all our thanks for her role in Trump’s debate prep.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    algarkirk said:

    mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    Omnium said:

    I would warn everyone not to give too much weight to UK polling companies in the US election. Their record is not good over there. Ipsos is the possible exception. They can give trends but hoping they will predict the result is optimistic to say the least

    I don't think Brits have a fucking clue about US politics, and we're not very good about it.

    Things like Hollywood tweets, the Daily Show or celebrity endorsements would be like posting The Mash Report or Joe or Dua Lipa over here as representative of "the vibe".

    They're not.
    There seems to be a bit of an internal contradiction in your post.
    Not saying I do either, I regularly get it wrong, but I know a bubble and group think when I see it.
    Which bubble? Which groupthink?

    SFAICS UK opinion, so far as the UK is interested, thinks that the POTUS election is very close (see the betting markets) and that the USA is politically and culturally divided and isn't good at the moment at finding common ground.

    And that America's style of democracy is under strain because there isn't, as there is in the UK, a wholehearted sense of 'losers consent' to whatever the result will be.

    The UK is short of people who will rationally explain and defend Trump's approach to things which belong to democracy (suchn as 6th January) without tortuous special pleading because from a UK cultural perspective it can't be done. This renders Trump and Trumpism particularly accountable for the problems USA democracy is in.

    No bubble. No groupthink.
    Incoherent. UK thought "from a UK cultural perspective" about US affairs is a paradigm of bubbly groupthink.

    You can be a lot more robust about Trump, he is a shit and a bully and a traitor and January 6 was wrong by absolute standards, bugger all to do with "cultural norms." BUT what is also wrong is 1. the assumption that KH is going to be a better president just because she is obviously (to an Englishman sitting in Tunbridge Wells) 1,000 x as nice as a person, and 2. the inability to understand that to say an outcome (like a trump presidency) is likely or possible is not the same thing as saying that the outcome is desirable. And 3. while I am at it, the inability to see, even after the event, that toppling Biden on the basis of his obvious senility was an ANTI Trump move.
    Thanks. I enjoyed this rich outpouring very much. Robustness has its place, but so does quiet consideration. Cultural norms are a reality, and it is false not to take account of them. Your points (1) and (2) are so obvious that they are possibly redundant. As to 'absolute standards' I am Kantian enough to think there are some, but trying to topple the state, oddly, isn't one of them. I am secret disciple of Thomas Hobbes and the strong man theory of government. There are states that deserve to be toppled. IMHO the next Trump regime (I think we are going to get one) may be one of them. Wait and see.
    For the avoidance of doubt everything after BUT is generalized and not about anything you said. This is very much not clear from the context.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,763

    mercator said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Envious. In March I am doing a 4 day trip from Ushuaia to Puntas Arenas just so I can say I have achieved virtually nothing in life but at least I have rounded Cape Horn.
    I hope you get a chance to see some of the Tierra del Feugo National Park. When I went from Ushaia to Antarctica, the Roaring Forties, Furious Fifties and Screaming Sixties were like a millpond.

    Then we got to Antarctica and had the first storm of the season. Force 11, minus 50C with the windchill and two days dodging icebergs before we could make a break towards Elephant Island and on to South Georgia. It was, er, eventful!
    We experienced a katabatic wind event in South Georgia that hit the ship like a sledge hammer before moving past

    All part of the experience but would not want to have been out in the open on land
    Those katabatic winds are a feature of the South Georgia fjords. We got one when we went to the Stromness whaling station where Shackleton arrived after travelling from Elephant Island and then climbing over the glacier. All closed off because of all the blue asbestos there. But you could still see the Station Manager's Office ("the Villa") where they tipped up - unrecognisable under huge beards.

    You also get the lenticular "flying saucer" clouds there too.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,912

    57.5 million watched the Harris v Trump debate

    Much higher than the Biden v Trump debate in June but quite a bit lower than Biden v Trump in 2020.

    The final figure though once you include streaming should easily top 60 million .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,262
    DavidL said:

    In less than 24 hours Swift's endorsement of Harris/Walz has received more than 9m likes.

    And I have something like 29k in, well, about 8 years. Come on you people. Where is the appreciation?

    Edit, even worse, I got confused between the number of posts and likes.

    Horses for courses, David. You'd struggle to sell out Wembley, she'd be pretty average on cross in front of m'lord.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,460
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    yellowstone! might be a bit out of the way.
    It was top of my list but it’s weirdly hard to get to from BC. Either a 20 hour drive - so 3-4 days of constant on the road-ness or complex and pricey air routes then more car hire etc

    North America is BIG
    hard for Brits to comprehend how big, I think.
    “Nipping” from Vancouver to Yellowstone is not like going from london to Frankfurt, as I imagined, but much more like going from Liverpool to the Carpathian Mountains

    Except harder. Because North America does not have the complex web of cheap air routes we have in Europe. We are blessed in Europe - so much interest and beauty is packed tightly together and all linked superbly by road and rail and air
    The population density of the European Union is a bit more than three times that of the US, which goes a long way (arf) towards explaining why travelling around Europe is easier than around the US.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,763
    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Truly extraordinary. Even when they arrived at South Georgia after the journey from Elephant Island, they spent two days nearly being dashed on rocks before they could get ashore. The ultimate example of "No man will be left behind".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
    Would they? I thought they were mainly navy men?
  • eek said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    At a guess, 19% is about the number of public sector workers+trade unionists+benefit dependents+lawyers and other parasites.

    Coincidence?

    You decide ...
    I am surprised just how low it is and certainly the honeymoon is over
    They badly need a good news story. Evidently being doomsters and gloomsters doesn’t make for high approval ratings, no matter how much they can blame the previous government.

    There have been a few smallish good news stories (the latest renewables auction for example, and resolving the junior doctors dispute) but they’ve seemed very unsurefooted about even those.

    They need to smile a bit more.
    Everytime a Labour Minister is interviewed it is 22 billion shortfall after 14 years of Tory rule and everything is terrible

    The country threw out the conservatives decisively in July and need hope and optimism, not constant doom and gloom

    22 billion shortfall... and that's why we've taken the tough decision to give big pay rises to our client vote.
    Um, those pay rises and the fact Rishi would have to release prisoners early are the reasons why Rishi called an early election.
    Two of them, anyway.

    As for the Starmer is a doomster thing... Hangovers aren't meant to be fun. Denial of that is a large part of why the country is in the state it is.

    I'm sure that there were people who voted Starmer for the good times to return quickly. They weren't paying attention.
    Did you expect a 19% approval rating within just a few weeks

    Starmer needs to lift the nation and he is simply not doing that
    I wonder if the mistake Starmer is making here is to channel Thatcher by doing unpopular things and thinking that will earn him respect and eventually people will come round again by the election.

    The problem is that that approach generally applies to major reforms like Thatcher carried out in the 80s. You are unpopular in the short term but there is a pay off in the end. Looking at something like the winter fuel allowance - where's the pay off? You're making a large segment of the electorate poorer and by the next election they'll still be poorer.

    It could easily end up that he does unpopular things, becomes unpopular and never recovers. And the gap to the budget isn't helping as there's just an endless string of press speculation about what the tax rises are likely to be (already leading to some people taking avoidance measures against certain measures that may not even come in)

    The other foolish thing is that there are ways he could raise money from pensioners by slight of hand such as equalising NI and income tax but he's making a virtue of taking this money away (machismo showing how tough he is). If we get a cold winter and the TV news is full of stories of pensioners dying because they can't afford to put the heating on, then I can't imagine Labour MPs will be very impressed.
  • mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
    On the available evidence Scott may also have got a much larger number of poor bastards killed in Flanders.

    I may have tediously recounted this already but when a child I was sick over Peter Scott on a flight back from Sudan. My mum said he was right grumpy sod about it.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,262
    PB deciding Harris is a cert to win the election. PB deciding Trump2 would be a disaster and therefore wanting Harris to win the election. The first would be groupthink (if it were happening). The second would be more in the way of a rational consensus.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,262

    57.5 million watched the Harris v Trump debate

    It was great. Time flew for me, watching it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,262
    But anyway ... we'll see.
  • mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
    Would they? I thought they were mainly navy men?
    The Naval Division took a bit of a beating in various WWI land actions including Gallipoli. I’m sure Scott’s boys would have gone where their stiff upper lips were most needed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,470
    ….
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,143

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    At a guess, 19% is about the number of public sector workers+trade unionists+benefit dependents+lawyers and other parasites.

    Coincidence?

    You decide ...
    I am surprised just how low it is and certainly the honeymoon is over
    They badly need a good news story. Evidently being doomsters and gloomsters doesn’t make for high approval ratings, no matter how much they can blame the previous government.

    There have been a few smallish good news stories (the latest renewables auction for example, and resolving the junior doctors dispute) but they’ve seemed very unsurefooted about even those.

    They need to smile a bit more.
    Everytime a Labour Minister is interviewed it is 22 billion shortfall after 14 years of Tory rule and everything is terrible

    The country threw out the conservatives decisively in July and need hope and optimism, not constant doom and gloom

    22 billion shortfall... and that's why we've taken the tough decision to give big pay rises to our client vote.
    Um, those pay rises and the fact Rishi would have to release prisoners early are the reasons why Rishi called an early election.
    Two of them, anyway.

    As for the Starmer is a doomster thing... Hangovers aren't meant to be fun. Denial of that is a large part of why the country is in the state it is.

    I'm sure that there were people who voted Starmer for the good times to return quickly. They weren't paying attention.
    Did you expect a 19% approval rating within just a few weeks

    Starmer needs to lift the nation and he is simply not doing that
    I wonder if the mistake Starmer is making here is to channel Thatcher by doing unpopular things and thinking that will earn him respect and eventually people will come round again by the election.

    The problem is that that approach generally applies to major reforms like Thatcher carried out in the 80s. You are unpopular in the short term but there is a pay off in the end. Looking at something like the winter fuel allowance - where's the pay off? You're making a large segment of the electorate poorer and by the next election they'll still be poorer.

    It could easily end up that he does unpopular things, becomes unpopular and never recovers. And the gap to the budget isn't helping as there's just an endless string of press speculation about what the tax rises are likely to be (already leading to some people taking avoidance measures against certain measures that may not even come in)

    The other foolish thing is that there are ways he could raise money from pensioners by slight of hand such as equalising NI and income tax but he's making a virtue of taking this money away (machismo showing how tough he is). If we get a cold winter and the TV news is full of stories of pensioners dying because they can't afford to put the heating on, then I can't imagine Labour MPs will be very impressed.
    I’ve been wondering the same thing. It kind of paid off to a lesser extent for Cameron and Osborne too. But times are different now.

    From my perspective if you’re going to inflict some pain, best make it part of a proper overhaul and reform of the system, not just the government equivalent of abolishing the team away day and cutting out croissants from breakfast meetings.
  • kinabalu said:

    57.5 million watched the Harris v Trump debate

    It was great. Time flew for me, watching it.
    Fast asleep and frankly I would rather watch paint dry then listen to even one word from Trump
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
    Would they? I thought they were mainly navy men?
    It's mainly Oates I worry about, but yes you are right. But the navy had a pretty shit time too.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,291
    GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    The Nasty Party?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,629
    NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o
  • eek said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    At a guess, 19% is about the number of public sector workers+trade unionists+benefit dependents+lawyers and other parasites.

    Coincidence?

    You decide ...
    I am surprised just how low it is and certainly the honeymoon is over
    They badly need a good news story. Evidently being doomsters and gloomsters doesn’t make for high approval ratings, no matter how much they can blame the previous government.

    There have been a few smallish good news stories (the latest renewables auction for example, and resolving the junior doctors dispute) but they’ve seemed very unsurefooted about even those.

    They need to smile a bit more.
    Everytime a Labour Minister is interviewed it is 22 billion shortfall after 14 years of Tory rule and everything is terrible

    The country threw out the conservatives decisively in July and need hope and optimism, not constant doom and gloom

    22 billion shortfall... and that's why we've taken the tough decision to give big pay rises to our client vote.
    Um, those pay rises and the fact Rishi would have to release prisoners early are the reasons why Rishi called an early election.
    Two of them, anyway.

    As for the Starmer is a doomster thing... Hangovers aren't meant to be fun. Denial of that is a large part of why the country is in the state it is.

    I'm sure that there were people who voted Starmer for the good times to return quickly. They weren't paying attention.
    Did you expect a 19% approval rating within just a few weeks

    Starmer needs to lift the nation and he is simply not doing that
    I wonder if the mistake Starmer is making here is to channel Thatcher by doing unpopular things and thinking that will earn him respect and eventually people will come round again by the election.

    The problem is that that approach generally applies to major reforms like Thatcher carried out in the 80s. You are unpopular in the short term but there is a pay off in the end. Looking at something like the winter fuel allowance - where's the pay off? You're making a large segment of the electorate poorer and by the next election they'll still be poorer.

    It could easily end up that he does unpopular things, becomes unpopular and never recovers. And the gap to the budget isn't helping as there's just an endless string of press speculation about what the tax rises are likely to be (already leading to some people taking avoidance measures against certain measures that may not even come in)

    The other foolish thing is that there are ways he could raise money from pensioners by slight of hand such as equalising NI and income tax but he's making a virtue of taking this money away (machismo showing how tough he is). If we get a cold winter and the TV news is full of stories of pensioners dying because they can't afford to put the heating on, then I can't imagine Labour MPs will be very impressed.
    Starmers going to continue on the same doomsday theme on the NHS from a report by a former labour health minister but for everything he is going to say about NHS England, how is it that NHS Wales is in an even worse state after 25 years of labour
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    But anyway ... we'll see.

    How, in a very real sense, true that is. A timely observation with which I wholeheartedly concur. This. +1.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    Sorry to hear this.

    I cannot believe they are planning this. If they want more money for councils - and they should - then sort out the actual council tax bands and valuation. Do the friggin' job of 'sorting out the rot' properly. The valuation is same as 1996.

    At least add a couple of bands to hit the very rich in penthouses and parts of Hampstead.
  • SO what do the PB defenders of Sir Ernest Shackleton have to say, in defense of a bloke who contrived to sink his own ship, right under the ship's cat . . . then once marooned on the ice, pronounced a death sentence upon the misfortunate feline,

    AND did NOT even have the good taste (ahem) to et the kitty . . .thus justifying it's slaughter as an emergeny measure for self-preservation . . . in contrast to (say) a hard-working AND very peckish Haitian immigrant , . .
  • GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    Sorry to hear this.

    I cannot believe they are planning this. If they want more money for councils - and they should - then sort out the actual council tax bands and valuation. Do the friggin' job of 'sorting out the rot' properly. The valuation is same as 1996.

    At least add a couple of bands to hit the very rich in penthouses and parts of Hampstead.
    It needs several more higher bands and frankly needed them from the onset
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,546
    Entirely off-topic, but came across this on YouTube tonight while searching for something else :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFt2x20JuYs

    "Bob Fosse's Iconic Choreography from Sweet Charity"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    The guys and gals on The Newsagents think there'll shortly be sackings or resignations on Team Trump over the debate prep.

    "He didn't listen and I'm quitting"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975

    GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    Sorry to hear this.

    I cannot believe they are planning this. If they want more money for councils - and they should - then sort out the actual council tax bands and valuation. Do the friggin' job of 'sorting out the rot' properly. The valuation is same as 1996.

    At least add a couple of bands to hit the very rich in penthouses and parts of Hampstead.
    I'm sure I'll be OK. An 80 year old widow who's just lost her husband on the other hand...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,084
    edited September 11
    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

  • mercator said:

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Our expedition was 'In the steps of Shackleton' and we followed his escape route in the ships lifeboat all the way from Antarctica to South Georgia and it was absolutely staggering how he made it, it is a true story of enormous courage and bravery
    The worst bit is when they encounter civilisation in May 1916 and ask what the result was of that silly little war in 1914. Conversely the only consolation for the losses of Scott's South Pole expedition is that if they had survived they'd have died in the trenches.
    Would they? I thought they were mainly navy men?
    Most of them were.

    Perhaps the most interesting was Teddy Evans (played by Kenneth Moore in the film):

    Juvenile delinquent, heroic destroyer commander in the war, admiral, Labour peer, formalised the rules of professional wrestling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Evans,_1st_Baron_Mountevans
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510

    GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    Sorry to hear this.

    I cannot believe they are planning this. If they want more money for councils - and they should - then sort out the actual council tax bands and valuation. Do the friggin' job of 'sorting out the rot' properly. The valuation is same as 1996.

    At least add a couple of bands to hit the very rich in penthouses and parts of Hampstead.
    It needs several more higher bands and frankly needed them from the onset
    Council funding is another issue like social care where an entire generation of politicians have failed through lack of the sheer guts to do correct things.

    We have been led by pygmies from all parties for years now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975

    The guys and gals on The Newsagents think there'll shortly be sackings or resignations on Team Trump over the debate prep.

    "He didn't listen and I'm quitting"

    A Trump 2024 "Downfall" parody can't be far away... 😂
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    SO what do the PB defenders of Sir Ernest Shackleton have to say, in defense of a bloke who contrived to sink his own ship, right under the ship's cat . . . then once marooned on the ice, pronounced a death sentence upon the misfortunate feline,

    AND did NOT even have the good taste (ahem) to et the kitty . . .thus justifying it's slaughter as an emergeny measure for self-preservation . . . in contrast to (say) a hard-working AND very peckish Haitian immigrant , . .

    I didn't know that about the cat

    Shackleton was a chancer, but you had to be to fund a polar expedition. His first choice of skipper turned down the Endeavour on the basis it was not a proper ship, just a gentleman's yacht slightly strengthened for a bit of arctic (not Antarctic) ice. But he turned back from 97 miles away from the pole in 1908 because he knew it was cutting it too fine to push on. Scott pushed on from a worse point because he thought there was a promotion in it for him.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    The Widow's Tax is going make the Dementia Tax look like a vicarage tea party.

    They wont do it.
  • GIN1138 said:

    I have seen that Labour have again apparently refused to rule out scrapping the single person discount for Council Tax. This is going to make the WFA furore sound rather quaint, if they do this on top.

    That one will affect me as I've been getting this since I lost my mother, who I was a long time carer for, in 2022.

    This seems to be a be a very cruel government?
    Sorry to hear this.

    I cannot believe they are planning this. If they want more money for councils - and they should - then sort out the actual council tax bands and valuation. Do the friggin' job of 'sorting out the rot' properly. The valuation is same as 1996.

    At least add a couple of bands to hit the very rich in penthouses and parts of Hampstead.
    It needs several more higher bands and frankly needed them from the onset
    Council funding is another issue like social care where an entire generation of politicians have failed through lack of the sheer guts to do correct things.

    We have been led by pygmies from all parties for years now.
    And the two are linked; one of the reasons council finances are in a bad way is because they are the last-resort funders of social care.

    Add to that the reduction in central government grants by Osborne and the effective capping of Council Tax by Pickles, and frankly it's a miracle that the show has kept on the road as long as it has.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975
    HYUFD said:

    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

    Has there ever been such a miserable and joyless Prime Minister?

    There must be someone?
  • dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
    Just yesterday I attended the funeral of an old friend who died at 62 after five years' struggle with Alzheimer's.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,084
    edited September 11

    The Widow's Tax is going make the Dementia Tax look like a vicarage tea party.

    They wont do it.

    My wife (who voted LD at the GE) had this response 'What a f**ker!'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,442

    algarkirk said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I retired at 65 and my wife and I went on an expedition ship to Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands with several landings on the peninsular and saw Shackletons grave in Grytviken, South Georgia

    The seas were rough at times, but the scenery and awesome nature was a truely once in a lifetime event

    I should day we are both excellent sailors no matter how rough the sea is
    Of all true stories I know, the Shackleton story is the one I find hardest to believe possible.
    Truly extraordinary. Even when they arrived at South Georgia after the journey from Elephant Island, they spent two days nearly being dashed on rocks before they could get ashore. The ultimate example of "No man will be left behind".
    “For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton.”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

    Has there ever been such a miserable and joyless Prime Minister?

    There must be someone?
    Salisbury.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,084
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

    Has there ever been such a miserable and joyless Prime Minister?

    There must be someone?
    Gladstone could be pretty dour but makes Starmer look like an intellectual pygmy in comparison
  • HYUFD said:

    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

    Though that report does also mention where the government thinks it can improve things (prevention, digital, community care) and a (long but probably realistic) timeline to put things right. Maybe SKS is a secret PB reader.

    Whether it works, that's another matter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510

    dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
    Just yesterday I attended the funeral of an old friend who died at 62 after five years' struggle with Alzheimer's.
    Blimey. That's grim. Condolences.

    Summer's lease is but short.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,922

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    At a guess, 19% is about the number of public sector workers+trade unionists+benefit dependents+lawyers and other parasites.

    Coincidence?

    You decide ...
    I am surprised just how low it is and certainly the honeymoon is over
    They badly need a good news story. Evidently being doomsters and gloomsters doesn’t make for high approval ratings, no matter how much they can blame the previous government.

    There have been a few smallish good news stories (the latest renewables auction for example, and resolving the junior doctors dispute) but they’ve seemed very unsurefooted about even those.

    They need to smile a bit more.
    Everytime a Labour Minister is interviewed it is 22 billion shortfall after 14 years of Tory rule and everything is terrible

    The country threw out the conservatives decisively in July and need hope and optimism, not constant doom and gloom

    22 billion shortfall... and that's why we've taken the tough decision to give big pay rises to our client vote.
    Um, those pay rises and the fact Rishi would have to release prisoners early are the reasons why Rishi called an early election.
    Two of them, anyway.

    As for the Starmer is a doomster thing... Hangovers aren't meant to be fun. Denial of that is a large part of why the country is in the state it is.

    I'm sure that there were people who voted Starmer for the good times to return quickly. They weren't paying attention.
    Did you expect a 19% approval rating within just a few weeks

    Starmer needs to lift the nation and he is simply not doing that
    I wonder if the mistake Starmer is making here is to channel Thatcher by doing unpopular things and thinking that will earn him respect and eventually people will come round again by the election.

    The problem is that that approach generally applies to major reforms like Thatcher carried out in the 80s. You are unpopular in the short term but there is a pay off in the end. Looking at something like the winter fuel allowance - where's the pay off? You're making a large segment of the electorate poorer and by the next election they'll still be poorer.

    It could easily end up that he does unpopular things, becomes unpopular and never recovers. And the gap to the budget isn't helping as there's just an endless string of press speculation about what the tax rises are likely to be (already leading to some people taking avoidance measures against certain measures that may not even come in)

    The other foolish thing is that there are ways he could raise money from pensioners by slight of hand such as equalising NI and income tax but he's making a virtue of taking this money away (machismo showing how tough he is). If we get a cold winter and the TV news is full of stories of pensioners dying because they can't afford to put the heating on, then I can't imagine Labour MPs will be very impressed.
    Starmers going to continue on the same doomsday theme on the NHS from a report by a former labour health minister but for everything he is going to say about NHS England, how is it that NHS Wales is in an even worse state after 25 years of labour
    I've done some work on health spending and Wales has the same issues that the rest of the UK, just on steroids (lol).

    Health outcomes between the poorest and richest parts are starkly different (and parts of Wales have poverty levels that match some of the most deprived bits of Glasgow), and there is rapid non-demographic growth in the cost of provision as elsewhere. 40% obese in some places - astonishing. 20% of kids before primary school are overweight. Significantly higher than in England.

    No government anywhere has covered themselves in glory on health. I know it's my thing, but the fact that Wales has the highest rates of driving short distances and lowest rates of cycle mileage anywhere in the UK is very telling. Too busy treating the symptoms and not dealing with the causes, though in terms of keeping active that is rather chicken and egg.
  • eek said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    At a guess, 19% is about the number of public sector workers+trade unionists+benefit dependents+lawyers and other parasites.

    Coincidence?

    You decide ...
    I am surprised just how low it is and certainly the honeymoon is over
    They badly need a good news story. Evidently being doomsters and gloomsters doesn’t make for high approval ratings, no matter how much they can blame the previous government.

    There have been a few smallish good news stories (the latest renewables auction for example, and resolving the junior doctors dispute) but they’ve seemed very unsurefooted about even those.

    They need to smile a bit more.
    Everytime a Labour Minister is interviewed it is 22 billion shortfall after 14 years of Tory rule and everything is terrible

    The country threw out the conservatives decisively in July and need hope and optimism, not constant doom and gloom

    22 billion shortfall... and that's why we've taken the tough decision to give big pay rises to our client vote.
    Um, those pay rises and the fact Rishi would have to release prisoners early are the reasons why Rishi called an early election.
    Two of them, anyway.

    As for the Starmer is a doomster thing... Hangovers aren't meant to be fun. Denial of that is a large part of why the country is in the state it is.

    I'm sure that there were people who voted Starmer for the good times to return quickly. They weren't paying attention.
    Did you expect a 19% approval rating within just a few weeks

    Starmer needs to lift the nation and he is simply not doing that
    I wonder if the mistake Starmer is making here is to channel Thatcher by doing unpopular things and thinking that will earn him respect and eventually people will come round again by the election.

    The problem is that that approach generally applies to major reforms like Thatcher carried out in the 80s. You are unpopular in the short term but there is a pay off in the end. Looking at something like the winter fuel allowance - where's the pay off? You're making a large segment of the electorate poorer and by the next election they'll still be poorer.

    It could easily end up that he does unpopular things, becomes unpopular and never recovers. And the gap to the budget isn't helping as there's just an endless string of press speculation about what the tax rises are likely to be (already leading to some people taking avoidance measures against certain measures that may not even come in)

    The other foolish thing is that there are ways he could raise money from pensioners by slight of hand such as equalising NI and income tax but he's making a virtue of taking this money away (machismo showing how tough he is). If we get a cold winter and the TV news is full of stories of pensioners dying because they can't afford to put the heating on, then I can't imagine Labour MPs will be very impressed.
    Starmers going to continue on the same doomsday theme on the NHS from a report by a former labour health minister but for everything he is going to say about NHS England, how is it that NHS Wales is in an even worse state after 25 years of labour
    I'd be cautious of direct comparisons that do not acknowledge the different situations in England and Wales. However, it has long been part of Blairite orthodoxy that the NHS is a basket case needing serious reform (which might or might not include more private sector involvement). If all you are saying is that Welsh Labour is not a hotbed of Blairism...
  • mercator said:

    SO what do the PB defenders of Sir Ernest Shackleton have to say, in defense of a bloke who contrived to sink his own ship, right under the ship's cat . . . then once marooned on the ice, pronounced a death sentence upon the misfortunate feline,

    AND did NOT even have the good taste (ahem) to et the kitty . . .thus justifying it's slaughter as an emergeny measure for self-preservation . . . in contrast to (say) a hard-working AND very peckish Haitian immigrant , . .

    I didn't know that about the cat

    Shackleton was a chancer, but you had to be to fund a polar expedition. His first choice of skipper turned down the Endeavour on the basis it was not a proper ship, just a gentleman's yacht slightly strengthened for a bit of arctic (not Antarctic) ice. But he turned back from 97 miles away from the pole in 1908 because he knew it was cutting it too fine to push on. Scott pushed on from a worse point because he thought there was a promotion in it for him.
    The ship's cat, aka Mrs Chippy, was understandably LESS admiring of the Great Explorer than most PBers.

    BTW, "Mrs" Chippy was actually a male cat. Making Shackleton one of the first anti-Woke warriors?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,311
    edited September 11
    POTUS

    Something is really bugging me about this election and a general sense this side of the water that Harris has all the momentum. What really brought it home was a BBC website article getting comments from some undecideds after the debate. Harris broadly comes out better. Then you look at it with a bit more thought, six of the eight were under 35 where Harris is perhaps stronger to begin with but also represent an age demographic less likely to vote so does it tell us anything?

    That to me kind of illustrates what I see in a lot of media here, the bland narrative that Harris has got some kind of momentum. Dig deeper and this thing is very hard to call. Trump has one thing going for him; the economy. Forget the figures, it appears a lot of Americans are feeling pretty shaky and thats a potential killer for an incumbent party. As much as I'd like Trump to fall out of a 3rd floor window in a way his sponsor in Moscow would be proud of, I still have a gut feeling that Trump has a big big chance. In 2020 I had little doubt he would lose.

    To that end, theres value in the markets.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975
    edited September 11
    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing. Doubt serious reform will happen, but we'll see...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,922
    edited September 11
    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing.

    This is the key line from the BBC article:

    It has meant hospitals have been sucking up an ever-increasing amount of the budget, when more care should be shifted into the community.

    Freeze secondary care in real terms. Perhaps even a cut back to pre-pandemic levels. Get the cash flowing into public health and primary care and maybe the NHS will be ready for the boomer crunch in the 2030s.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,922
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Our newly elected PM's message of hope and optimism continues 'NHS must reform or die, Starmer to say'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w6g0gzw40o.

    At the moment he makes even Gordon Brown, Ted Heath and Theresa May seem like rays of sunshine!

    Has there ever been such a miserable and joyless Prime Minister?

    There must be someone?
    I remember when PB was complaining about neither party taking the country's issues seriously in the GE campaign.

    This is what that looks like.
  • Lest we forget . . . yet another victim of Empire . . .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs_Chippy
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,510
    Eabhal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing.

    This is the key line from the BBC article:

    It has meant hospitals have been sucking up an ever-increasing amount of the budget, when more care should be shifted into the community.

    Freeze secondary care in real terms. Perhaps even a cut back to pre-pandemic levels. Get the cash flowing into public health and primary care and maybe the NHS will be ready for the boomer crunch in the 2030s.
    May be true but isn't this exactly what Darzi was saying last time he did this report for Gordon Brown?

    Poly clinics etc etc.?
  • Eabhal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing.

    This is the key line from the BBC article:

    It has meant hospitals have been sucking up an ever-increasing amount of the budget, when more care should be shifted into the community.

    Freeze secondary care in real terms. Perhaps even a cut back to pre-pandemic levels. Get the cash flowing into public health and primary care and maybe the NHS will be ready for the boomer crunch in the 2030s.
    Cut what to pre-pandemic levels? Just hacking at the budget will mean services are cut at the whim of local administrators.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,922

    Eabhal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing.

    This is the key line from the BBC article:

    It has meant hospitals have been sucking up an ever-increasing amount of the budget, when more care should be shifted into the community.

    Freeze secondary care in real terms. Perhaps even a cut back to pre-pandemic levels. Get the cash flowing into public health and primary care and maybe the NHS will be ready for the boomer crunch in the 2030s.
    May be true but isn't this exactly what Darzi was saying last time he did this report for Gordon Brown?

    Poly clinics etc etc.?
    Sure, but it's so easy just to pump money into hospitals "to bring waiting lists down". So we just end up in a situation where the entire country is ill and therefore on a waiting list. Incredibly difficult to break that cycle.

    The way to bring waiting lists is to Make Britain Healthy Again (and ignore the literal cries of pain from those unfortunate enough to be on the waiting list at the moment).

    Maybe, just maybe, Thatcher Starmer has the steel to do it.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 273

    Trump donors wondering why their hero was "unprepared" and "took the bait" and "was over confident" and are stunned at how "well prepared" Harris was (a former prosecutor who has done a million hours or whatever in court) according to FT.

    How does these people become rich? They seem thick as shite.

    Generally by inheritance or dumb luck, then by donating to politicians who further their interests.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,629
    Time magazine has to fact check their own fact check:

    https://time.com/7019747/harris-trump-debate-cover/

    The original version of this story mischaracterized as false Donald Trump's statement accusing Kamala Harris of supporting “transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison” As a presidential candidate in 2019, Harris filled out a questionnaire saying she supported taxpayer-funded gender transition treatment for detained immigrants.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    edited September 11
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    I’ve done that trip. Take the Natchez Parkway, it’s brilliant

    And it ends in Nawlins which is probably the most seductive city in North America
    I've done the drive from Seattle to Northern California (Redwood National Park). We did get to camp next to the tallest group of trees on earth but the road trip itself was surprisingly dull and definitely doesn't have the romance of Going North.

    You could just cross the border into Washington? Thought it might just be more of the same, the volcanoes are a bit more accessible although the increase in tourists compared to Canada might be annoying.

    I preferred Mt Baker area to Mt Rainier although getting the summit of Mt St Helens to ourselves was a highlight (not a particularly easy jaunt, I might add).
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,311
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing.

    This is the key line from the BBC article:

    It has meant hospitals have been sucking up an ever-increasing amount of the budget, when more care should be shifted into the community.

    Freeze secondary care in real terms. Perhaps even a cut back to pre-pandemic levels. Get the cash flowing into public health and primary care and maybe the NHS will be ready for the boomer crunch in the 2030s.
    May be true but isn't this exactly what Darzi was saying last time he did this report for Gordon Brown?

    Poly clinics etc etc.?
    Sure, but it's so easy just to pump money into hospitals "to bring waiting lists down". So we just end up in a situation where the entire country is ill and therefore on a waiting list. Incredibly difficult to break that cycle.

    The way to bring waiting lists is to Make Britain Healthy Again (and ignore the literal cries of pain from those unfortunate enough to be on the waiting list at the moment).

    Maybe, just maybe, Thatcher Starmer has the steel to do it.
    You mean people taking responsibility for their own health?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,470
    GIN1138 said:

    On the substance of what SKS is saying Re. NHS though, I do think true, lasting NHS reform (which is what it needs) can only be done by a Labour government.

    If the Tories ever tried to properly reform the NHS they'd just be accused of trying to destroy it, so all the Conservatives can do is throw money at it.

    So if SKS and Labour are serious about properly reforming the NHS, that can only be a good thing. Doubt serious reform will happen, but we'll see...

    Agreed. The service is an utter mess. Its administration systems alone are like something from the 1950s, scraps of paper, endless phone calls, having to call at precisely 8am etc etc. I visited a hospital recently that only accepted coinage in its car park. Everything needs looking at from the bottom up. It will require lots of energy and commitment as well as money, because many of its antiquated processes are seemingly institutionalised.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975
    A bit of Mail Vs Mail as Hodges and Hitchens make the case for and against Lucy Letby's guilt or innocence.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13837769/DAN-HODGES-Lucy-Letby-killed-babies-think-shes-innocent-fallen-conspiracy-theory-Heres-evidence-thats-convinced-me.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13838931/PETER-HITCHENS-Lucy-Letby-innocent-shut-pursuit-justice-upset-possibility.html

    I wonder if Hitchens does genuinely think Lucy Letby is innocent though? Or is he just being his usual contrarian self?

    If she does eventually get released, he'll probably start penning articles saying that he now think's she's guilty... That's Hitch, lol! 😂
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,629
    GIN1138 said:

    A bit of Mail Vs Mail as Hodges and Hitchens make the case for and against Lucy Letby's guilt or innocence.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13837769/DAN-HODGES-Lucy-Letby-killed-babies-think-shes-innocent-fallen-conspiracy-theory-Heres-evidence-thats-convinced-me.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13838931/PETER-HITCHENS-Lucy-Letby-innocent-shut-pursuit-justice-upset-possibility.html

    I wonder if Hitchens does genuinely think Lucy Letby is innocent though? Or is he just being his usual contrarian self?

    If she does eventually get released, he'll probably start penning articles saying that he now think's she's guilty... That's Hitch, lol! 😂

    If she gets released he could turn it into an argument for the death penalty to prevent sentimental retrials.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,975
    How on earth can it take so long for Vanilla to switch comments back to showing "newest first" on the embed?

    You would think it would literally just take a quick html change and voila? I hope OGH and Smithson The Younger going to get some money back for these past weeks of the embed showing oldest first....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,763

    dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
    Just yesterday I attended the funeral of an old friend who died at 62 after five years' struggle with Alzheimer's.
    One of my Uni and College of Law chums died in his late 50's after a couple of years of very aggressive Alzheimers.

    He got fired by his City law firm because they thought he had an alcohol problem. So he ended up with no healthcare insurance.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kjh said:

    @hyufd I was in your part of the world on Friday. On my trip to our Southwold house I popped into a place near Epping that sells replica Cobras and GT40s. Thought I had been to Epping in the dim and distant past, but I had no recollection.

    @Dura_Ace will be lived I am looking at them. He has filled a quarry with Panthers to ensure I don't buy one of them. He now has to move onto Cobras. I would love a GT40 but realistically you can't take it to the pub.

    Sorry for the delayed response. I had to wait for a new keyboard from Amazon as I smashed mine in a fit of rage.

    So, let's get started.

    FUCKING WHY?

    Cobra replicas are inauthentic, ubiquitous and terrible cars made by depressed men in sheds from eclectic combinations of Jaguar bits and various antique V8s with the 298ci Rover V8 being the absolute nadir. The end result is invariably a shoddy and dangerous abomination that will leave you stranded on the side of the road with the inevitable over-heating (every single one of them runs hot, get proficient at gutting thermostats) or kill you in an uncommanded spin.

    They are not even that cheap any more.

    If you want open air thrills then get this.

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306198690098

    It's got the S54 which is one of the best engines ever built. It's fast but won't kill you in a moment of inattention and you can get parts/repairs for it quite easily. This one needs a paint correction, new headlights and the interior's a bit tired but it's a good buy. You'd get it for 11 bags of sand with hard bargaining.

    You have to understand the reason for buying a Cobra, GT40 or Panther is not for the pleasure in driving it but for the reaction of others which is usually WTF is that? I could always go for a Panther DeVille, but I would be concerned you might have an aneurysm. I saw one for sale the other day.

    You will be relieved to know most of my time is spent looking and not buying.

    PS what you posted has gone. What was it?
    Dunno. I assume I was tidying up mangled blockquotes.

    If you want a car that makes people react then get something American. My '80 Pontiac Firebird attracts way more attention and comments than my Tributo!

    If you can put up with LHD (you soon get used to it) then get a convertible C5 Vette, Loads of power, easy to fix, turns heads. C5 was the last production car ever to have pop up headlights so that's sick. They do come up in the UK, but I'd import a desert car from New Mexico or Arizona.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP1JzbmXG3s
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437

    dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
    Just yesterday I attended the funeral of an old friend who died at 62 after five years' struggle with Alzheimer's.
    One of my Uni and College of Law chums died in his late 50's after a couple of years of very aggressive Alzheimers.

    He got fired by his City law firm because they thought he had an alcohol problem. So he ended up with no healthcare insurance.

    One of my close work colleagues, mid 50s, had a nasty turn just a few weeks ago with Covid and turned out to have a meningioma. He's not doing well although I don't know the ultimate prognosis. It happens.

    I'm planning to give up. You can sit at a desk all day in your 30s and still retain fitness to do things, but I think from mid 50s it is very much use it or lose it.

    Nobody died wishing they'd spent more time in the office, as they say.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,550
    Yokes said:

    POTUS

    Something is really bugging me about this election and a general sense this side of the water that Harris has all the momentum. What really brought it home was a BBC website article getting comments from some undecideds after the debate. Harris broadly comes out better. Then you look at it with a bit more thought, six of the eight were under 35 where Harris is perhaps stronger to begin with but also represent an age demographic less likely to vote so does it tell us anything?

    That to me kind of illustrates what I see in a lot of media here, the bland narrative that Harris has got some kind of momentum. Dig deeper and this thing is very hard to call. Trump has one thing going for him; the economy. Forget the figures, it appears a lot of Americans are feeling pretty shaky and thats a potential killer for an incumbent party. As much as I'd like Trump to fall out of a 3rd floor window in a way his sponsor in Moscow would be proud of, I still have a gut feeling that Trump has a big big chance. In 2020 I had little doubt he would lose.

    To that end, theres value in the markets.

    Where's the value though, the market is showing a 50/50 race not an unstoppable Harris momentum race.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/sep/11/us-presidential-debate-donald-trump-ukraine-war

    Trump refuses to say whether he wants Ukraine to win war against Russia

    Do Biden/Harris want Ukraine to defeat Russia and retake Crimea?
    Yes.
    It's just a question of degree between DJT and the Biden/Harris on Ukraine.

    I don't think DJT gives much of a fuck on principle, for he has none, but considers it a waste of US money and his base hate the war so he dodges the issue.

    Biden/Harris clearly don't want Ukraine to 'win' in the Ultra-compliant sense of the term: rolling into Crimea, etc. They are content to use the Ukranian state and people as a millstone on which to grind Russian military and economic power while fingers-crossed it doesn't spiral out of control into WW3.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,360
    I’m staring at a desert lake. In Canada. Yes
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,603
    edited September 12
    dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    If you are driving it's a bloody long way.
    But there is something quite visceral about driving north. The towns get smaller and further apart. There's just distance. You need forward planning for food, fuel and the bathroom. Lakes get bigger, forests denser. Then suddenly, sparse, and alone for miles and miles.
    It's like approaching the inevitable. Colder, darker and lonelier.
    Like impending aging and death.
    This is on my list for when I'm less broke:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg–Churchill_train
    There's millions of things I'd like to do.

    A country music trip down the Mississipi from Memphis, Tennessee, down to New Orleans is another, but kids, cash, grindstone etc.

    Maybe one day. Think I'll retire about 62 whilst I can still do some stuff. None of this 70 or "oh, I might get bored if i don't work" shit.

    I won't get bored. Will do stuff.
    Don't blithely assume you'll have your health at 62. I'm 57. And quite a number of my cohort (who lived much cleaner lives than me) are dead or incapacitated.
    Do stuff with your kids while you are young and they want to do it with you.
    Both will be gone before you know it.
    Well the latest research, which I heard on the BBC before I left and on NPR again yesterday, is that ageing comes in two bursts, around age 44 and around age 60, over a year or two either side. I have my next two years big trips planned out already, but one always wonders whether events will intervene
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,603

    The guys and gals on The Newsagents think there'll shortly be sackings or resignations on Team Trump over the debate prep.

    "He didn't listen and I'm quitting"

    Speculation today is that if the polls turn against him, he might ditch Vance
    I can't bet from here but if there's an appropriate bet it might be worth a few £
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,603

    Time magazine has to fact check their own fact check:

    https://time.com/7019747/harris-trump-debate-cover/

    The original version of this story mischaracterized as false Donald Trump's statement accusing Kamala Harris of supporting “transgender operations on illegal aliens in prison” As a presidential candidate in 2019, Harris filled out a questionnaire saying she supported taxpayer-funded gender transition treatment for detained immigrants.

    But Trump made it sound like they weren't voluntary
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,385
    edited September 12
    Leon said:

    Has anyone ever been to the Yukon?

    I’m tempted. I have a few spare days at the end of this trip and I was thinking - go south to the sun maybe Oregon (never been) or Northern California (likewise apart from Frisco)

    But then I thought THE YUKON. Just the name alone

    And all that brilliant gold rush history

    Will be fucking cold and probably wet but at least it’s after mosquito season…

    While you see a chance take it, as Mr Winwood tells us.
  • Trump's message of American decline resonates with pivotal voters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0nerwe8rro
  • IanB2 said:

    The guys and gals on The Newsagents think there'll shortly be sackings or resignations on Team Trump over the debate prep.

    "He didn't listen and I'm quitting"

    Speculation today is that if the polls turn against him, he might ditch Vance
    I can't bet from here but if there's an appropriate bet it might be worth a few £
    I suspect the squillionaires put Vance on the ticket so he can oust Trump, rather than vice versa, and get on with Project 2025.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,233
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    In less than 24 hours Swift's endorsement of Harris/Walz has received more than 9m likes.

    And I have something like 29k in, well, about 8 years. Come on you people. Where is the appreciation?

    Edit, even worse, I got confused between the number of posts and likes.

    Horses for courses, David. You'd struggle to sell out Wembley, she'd be pretty average on cross in front of m'lord.
    With no disrespect to @DavidL , I suspect she'd be surprisingly competent in her cross examinations. She is both immaculately prepared and a workaholic.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,233

    Trump's message of American decline resonates with pivotal voters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0nerwe8rro

    He, surely, is a symptom of that decline.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,233
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/sep/11/us-presidential-debate-donald-trump-ukraine-war

    Trump refuses to say whether he wants Ukraine to win war against Russia

    Do Biden/Harris want Ukraine to defeat Russia and retake Crimea?
    Yes.
    It's just a question of degree between DJT and the Biden/Harris on Ukraine.

    I don't think DJT gives much of a fuck on principle, for he has none, but considers it a waste of US money and his base hate the war so he dodges the issue.

    Biden/Harris clearly don't want Ukraine to 'win' in the Ultra-compliant sense of the term: rolling into Crimea, etc. They are content to use the Ukranian state and people as a millstone on which to grind Russian military and economic power while fingers-crossed it doesn't spiral out of control into WW3.
    Why wouldn't the Democrats want Ukraine to win?

    Surely the fall of Trump's number one crush would be 100% in their interest.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/sep/11/us-presidential-debate-donald-trump-ukraine-war

    Trump refuses to say whether he wants Ukraine to win war against Russia

    Do Biden/Harris want Ukraine to defeat Russia and retake Crimea?
    Yes.
    It's just a question of degree between DJT and the Biden/Harris on Ukraine.

    I don't think DJT gives much of a fuck on principle, for he has none, but considers it a waste of US money and his base hate the war so he dodges the issue.

    Biden/Harris clearly don't want Ukraine to 'win' in the Ultra-compliant sense of the term: rolling into Crimea, etc. They are content to use the Ukranian state and people as a millstone on which to grind Russian military and economic power while fingers-crossed it doesn't spiral out of control into WW3.
    Why wouldn't the Democrats want Ukraine to win?

    Surely the fall of Trump's number one crush would be 100% in their interest.
    Because the continuing SMO effectively removes Russia as a military and economic competitor?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Trump's message of American decline resonates with pivotal voters
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0nerwe8rro

    He, surely, is a symptom of that decline.
    Indeed but what we need to remember before betting is this is a forced choice between Trump and Kamala (and staying at home) and that even if a vote is cast while holding one's nose, it still counts.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,763
    IanB2 said:

    The guys and gals on The Newsagents think there'll shortly be sackings or resignations on Team Trump over the debate prep.

    "He didn't listen and I'm quitting"

    Speculation today is that if the polls turn against him, he might ditch Vance
    I can't bet from here but if there's an appropriate bet it might be worth a few £
    Isn't Vance now locked on the ballot in a bunch of states? Aren't some ballot papers going out for early voting at the end of this week?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,376
    DavidL said:

    In less than 24 hours Swift's endorsement of Harris/Walz has received more than 9m likes.

    And I have something like 29k in, well, about 8 years. Come on you people. Where is the appreciation?

    Edit, even worse, I got confused between the number of posts and likes.

    The Babylon Bee has the best take on Swift:

    https://babylonbee.com/news/woman-who-made-career-singing-about-her-bad-decisions-endorses-kamala

    “A singer who has made her entire career out of writing songs detailing her horrifically bad choices has announced her choice for President: Kamala Harris.”
This discussion has been closed.