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Kemi Badenoch’s past comes back to haunt her – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,750
    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    Dog for scale...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348

    FF43 said:

    I still think it will be Cleverly.

    I just don't see how he gets it. He's superficially plausible and even likeable at times (date rape "jokes" aside) but he isn't an original thinker and doesn't have a case that Tory members are likely to find particularly compelling as leader.

    Cleverly is essentially the "potter on and hope Labour f*** up" candidate and, while that might not actually be an awful strategy, it isn't going to win a leadership election. Particularly in circumstances where a huge number of Tory members feel bruised, have lost their local MP, and are angry with the universe. They want answers, even if they are essentially bullshit answers.
    The first bit's easy enough- I can see him hoovering up the non-nutter MPs as Stride and Tugendhat drop out. That gets him into the final round; 40 MPs will be enough for that.

    Then it gets harder- he probably has to hope that his rival on the right says something really silly, like Leadsom did. Which isn't impossible.
    The trouble is that the 'non-nutter' MPs are qalso known as the careerist MPs. They'll attach themselves to whomever they think will win.
    Given the Conservatives are two steps away from extinction, careerists invested in keeping the show on the road might be a little useful.
    Like they did by knifing Boris and installing Sunak? Yeh OK.
    Knifing Truss and installing Sunak.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,750

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    It’s because they can’t credibly say that any more, unless they actually intend to. The nuclear threats were always a bluff, and they knew that. Because they absolutely know that the US can actually nuke Moscow within minutes.
    What I'm scared of: The Russians use nukes on their own soil (as old Soviet nuclear doctrine permitted). We can't exactly respond to them effectively using their own fist to punch themselves. But the level of civilian panic in the West (think how excitable Leon gets, multiply it) plus the market reaction in the West - would be a weapon of mass chaos.

    I rate it as unlikely but non-zero. Especially if Putin starts running out of cards to play.
    Putin going for nuclear release on his own soil brings into play two other possibilities

    1) this triggers the “fuck this shit” moment in someone in his inner circle. And the push him out of a window. In his bunker 18 stories below ground.
    2) it cracks the general Russian belief in his leadership.
    3) it means delegating and releasing tactical nuclear weapons to local commanders. Which is trusting them a lot. See 1)
    4) related to 3) is the issue of where to strike. Contrary to the movies nukes don’t eliminate everything. A couple of miles from a small tac nuke and you survive. So unless you are aiming accurately at a specific target, you risk missing. Or only hitting a tiny part of the offensive. So, you might need to use a Big Weapon…..
    Tactical nukes are essentially pointless weapons. Not big enough to make a difference without tremendous amounts of planning (and hence strategy...), and too large to be ignored and not harm your own side. And C&C of tactical nukes is difficult.

    Which is why tactical nukes have essentially died a death cf strategic.
    With prevailing winds taking the fallout over Russia and the poor NBC training of Russian convict conscripts Tactical nukes could easily hurt Russia most.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,477
    Sandpit said:

    On Twitter:

    If you enter 'Kursk' or 'Kursk oblast' into the search and got to 'latest', you get a stream of posters with similar message spamming links to p0rn; sometimes the same posters within a few seconds. With my tinfoil hat on, I'd say this was a Russian attempt to drown out info on the Ukrainian operation.

    An example:
    "Ukrainian shit propaganda is posting another Photoshop peremoga claiming that they have reached Lgov in Kursk Oblast. But this time it's so bad, that they were too lazy to even lookup GOST (standards protocol) on the road signs in Russia or how the actual sign looks like. 🤡" With a link to P0rn.

    I don't get it on other keywords, e.g. Trump.

    Haha yes. There’s a whole load of Russian bots revealing themselves to Twitter. Good good.
    Well... not good at all. Because although they may be revealing themselves, they're preventing those keywords from being in any way useful. From their perspective: job done.

    And Musky Baby's allowing it, despite claiming he bought Twitter to get rid of the bots.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477
    Just a normal day in the world the Internet has wrought.



    Sunder Katwala
    @sundersays
    ·
    1h
    Tom Tugendhat calls Elon Musk "delusional". I think Musk's impulsive man child behaviour will harden centre-right opinion against him

    https://x.com/sundersays/status/1823403782627107029
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,105
    edited August 13
    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348

    Sandpit said:

    On Twitter:

    If you enter 'Kursk' or 'Kursk oblast' into the search and got to 'latest', you get a stream of posters with similar message spamming links to p0rn; sometimes the same posters within a few seconds. With my tinfoil hat on, I'd say this was a Russian attempt to drown out info on the Ukrainian operation.

    An example:
    "Ukrainian shit propaganda is posting another Photoshop peremoga claiming that they have reached Lgov in Kursk Oblast. But this time it's so bad, that they were too lazy to even lookup GOST (standards protocol) on the road signs in Russia or how the actual sign looks like. 🤡" With a link to P0rn.

    I don't get it on other keywords, e.g. Trump.

    Haha yes. There’s a whole load of Russian bots revealing themselves to Twitter. Good good.
    Well... not good at all. Because although they may be revealing themselves, they're preventing those keywords from being in any way useful. From their perspective: job done.

    And Musky Baby's allowing it, despite claiming he bought Twitter to get rid of the bots.
    If you hit ‘popular’ rather than ‘lastest’, then you see the reviews of the Russian restaurants in Kursk, by Ukranian soldiers:

    https://x.com/iammattaustin/status/1823333607441596646
  • Sandpit said:

    On Twitter:

    If you enter 'Kursk' or 'Kursk oblast' into the search and got to 'latest', you get a stream of posters with similar message spamming links to p0rn; sometimes the same posters within a few seconds. With my tinfoil hat on, I'd say this was a Russian attempt to drown out info on the Ukrainian operation.

    An example:
    "Ukrainian shit propaganda is posting another Photoshop peremoga claiming that they have reached Lgov in Kursk Oblast. But this time it's so bad, that they were too lazy to even lookup GOST (standards protocol) on the road signs in Russia or how the actual sign looks like. 🤡" With a link to P0rn.

    I don't get it on other keywords, e.g. Trump.

    Haha yes. There’s a whole load of Russian bots revealing themselves to Twitter. Good good.
    Well... not good at all. Because although they may be revealing themselves, they're preventing those keywords from being in any way useful. From their perspective: job done.

    And Musky Baby's allowing it, despite claiming he bought Twitter to get rid of the bots.
    The keywords are still useful, just on platforms that are useful, like Google.

    And Russian trolling doesn't replace having a serious army like Ukraine has.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477
    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    @leon is going to explode.

    F*cking pets etc etc...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,105
    Barry Hearn anecdote from TwiX:-

    Barry put his arm around me and said, “Jesse, welcome to Matchroom. I want you to know the three things that I look for in every one of my employees.”

    “Number 1. Do they make me money?”

    Then Barry took a long pause and turned to me.

    “F**k it, I can’t remember the other two!”

    https://x.com/ScurrilousMay/status/1823126807467462988
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348
    edited August 13

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,517
    edited August 13

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    @leon is going to explode.

    F*cking pets etc etc...
    I wonder what his thoughts on crochet are.
  • kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    The best use of a daily photo allowance in PB history!
  • Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    OK, fair enough, even as someone who despises pets and, even more, their weak-minded pathetic hypocritical planet-killing, bird-slaughtering, river-poisoning, child-maiming, park-poo-filling owners... that is really quite cute, It almost makes me want...

    No. NO.

    NO
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477
    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

  • TazTaz Posts: 13,621

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    kjh said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    @leon is going to explode.

    F*cking pets etc etc...
    I wonder what his thoughts on crochet are.
    Actually, more than the dog or the amusing crochet what that photo makes me think is: perhaps it might be rather nice to have a sunny garden, and a patio, and a garden table. And a wife who crochets things. Homo domesticus. The quieter life. There is no shame in it, and sometimes from my perspective it is deeply enviable

    Trouble is I have only met one woman with whom I could remotely have considered a life like that (and even then I severely wonder). And she was 21 and I was 55, so it was doomed. Ah well

    Some of us are farmers, some of us are hunter gatherers, and thus is the world, and we play the hand we are dealt by the Lord
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,477
    Leon said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    OK, fair enough, even as someone who despises pets and, even more, their weak-minded pathetic hypocritical planet-killing, bird-slaughtering, river-poisoning, child-maiming, park-poo-filling owners... that is really quite cute, It almost makes me want...

    No. NO.

    NO
    You'll know you've had a total, standout night marauding Camden followed by the Groucho Club with a ton of champagne, martinis and red wine when you wake to find you've told a taxi driver at 2am to drive straight to Battersea and pick up a dog cause you need love in your life.

    :smiley:
  • Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    He's looking to sell prime ocean front real estate in Idaho, Arizona, Indiana and Colorado.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,041
    edited August 13
    Lobbying to lift migrant caps will certainly turn ERG MPs off Badenoch and Jenrick must now be the strong favourite to get their support. Reform would also use this as ammunition against the Tories now if Badenoch became leader, further weakening her chances. Though there may be some merit in expanding work and student Visas that is not what Tory party will want now as they will want some tough on immigration red meat to try and win back voters lost to Reform
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348
    edited August 13

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.

    Edit: Banks not valuing newbuild flats close to the developers’ price does seem to be becoming a ‘thing’ at the moment.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    The U.K. government did not give Ukraine permission to use British Storm Shadow long-range missiles in Kyiv's incursion into Russia's Kursk Oblast, The Telegraph reported on Aug. 13, citing an undisclosed British government source.

    "There has been no change," the source reportedly told The Telegraph.


    Whyever not? Pusillanimity, it seems
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 954
    Nigelb said:

    Sky News on Tom Tugendhat's speech,

    "It's billed by his team as a significant speech. I have to say, as of yet, I don't quite see the significant part"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1823367049785045495

    Sky news have been giving far too many subtle opinions as of late
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348
    geoffw said:

    The U.K. government did not give Ukraine permission to use British Storm Shadow long-range missiles in Kyiv's incursion into Russia's Kursk Oblast, The Telegraph reported on Aug. 13, citing an undisclosed British government source.

    "There has been no change," the source reportedly told The Telegraph.


    Whyever not? Pusillanimity, it seems

    One can understand that to a certain extent, although IMHO unambiguous military targets such as air bases and railway junctions are fair game.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    After 800 years I'm impressed the fight continues.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,096
    geoffw said:

    The U.K. government did not give Ukraine permission to use British Storm Shadow long-range missiles in Kyiv's incursion into Russia's Kursk Oblast, The Telegraph reported on Aug. 13, citing an undisclosed British government source.

    "There has been no change," the source reportedly told The Telegraph.


    Whyever not? Pusillanimity, it seems

    Putinanimity, more like.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,096

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    He's looking to sell prime ocean front real estate in Idaho, Arizona, Indiana and Colorado.
    Lex Luthor!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,096

    Just a normal day in the world the Internet has wrought.



    Sunder Katwala
    @sundersays
    ·
    1h
    Tom Tugendhat calls Elon Musk "delusional". I think Musk's impulsive man child behaviour will harden centre-right opinion against him

    https://x.com/sundersays/status/1823403782627107029

    We need a "normal" Tory Party to give an alternative to Labour when the latter start to fuck up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    The U.K. government did not give Ukraine permission to use British Storm Shadow long-range missiles in Kyiv's incursion into Russia's Kursk Oblast, The Telegraph reported on Aug. 13, citing an undisclosed British government source.

    "There has been no change," the source reportedly told The Telegraph.


    Whyever not? Pusillanimity, it seems

    One can understand that to a certain extent, although IMHO unambiguous military targets such as air bases and railway junctions are fair game.
    From Kyivindependent:
    "If Ukraine could strike the enemy troops on their territory, from where they threaten Ukraine, then Ukraine would be in a much better position to protect itself," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Heorhii Tykhyi said.

    "In particular, it would be less necessary to use the Ukrainian defense forces outside of the Ukrainian borders, including Kursk Oblast."

    The spokesperson added that Ukrainian officials are in talks with Western partners to allow Ukraine to strike military targets deep inside Russia.

    "This step is necessary… it is 'de-esalatory,' it will contribute to security," said Tykhyi.

    "All fears must be left behind, and we must be allowed to fully utilize our long-range capabilities to reduce Russia’s military potential," the official added.

    Earlier, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg addressed U.S. restrictions on the use of long-range weapons to strike targets deep inside Russian territory during a press conference on July 10 by affirming Ukraine's "right to self-defense."

    "Under international law, Ukraine has the right to self-defense," Stoltenberg said.

    "We are helping Ukraine to realize its right to self-defense by supplying weapons and equipment, including long-range missiles, in particular, ATACMS. The right of self-defense includes the right to strike legitimate military targets on the territory of the aggressor, Russia."


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,096

    FF43 said:

    I still think it will be Cleverly.

    I just don't see how he gets it. He's superficially plausible and even likeable at times (date rape "jokes" aside) but he isn't an original thinker and doesn't have a case that Tory members are likely to find particularly compelling as leader.

    Cleverly is essentially the "potter on and hope Labour f*** up" candidate and, while that might not actually be an awful strategy, it isn't going to win a leadership election. Particularly in circumstances where a huge number of Tory members feel bruised, have lost their local MP, and are angry with the universe. They want answers, even if they are essentially bullshit answers.
    The first bit's easy enough- I can see him hoovering up the non-nutter MPs as Stride and Tugendhat drop out. That gets him into the final round; 40 MPs will be enough for that.

    Then it gets harder- he probably has to hope that his rival on the right says something really silly, like Leadsom did. Which isn't impossible.
    The trouble is that the 'non-nutter' MPs are qalso known as the careerist MPs. They'll attach themselves to whomever they think will win.
    Given the Conservatives are two steps away from extinction, careerists invested in keeping the show on the road might be a little useful.
    Like they did by knifing Boris and installing Sunak? Yeh OK.
    Knifing Boris and installing Truss?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,521
    Re some recent posts, if the war in Ukraine reaches a nuclear crisis, we are not near that moment yet.

    The only conceivable scenario is if Putin knows he has completely lost and sees no way out other than to roll the dice and fire a warning shot. At that point it is not clear whether he would be able to go through with it, because if Putin loses it is not clear his chain of command would be willing to go down with him, and it must be more likely that he’d never manage to get as far as executing that decision before there would be regime change.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528

    FF43 said:

    I still think it will be Cleverly.

    I just don't see how he gets it. He's superficially plausible and even likeable at times (date rape "jokes" aside) but he isn't an original thinker and doesn't have a case that Tory members are likely to find particularly compelling as leader.

    Cleverly is essentially the "potter on and hope Labour f*** up" candidate and, while that might not actually be an awful strategy, it isn't going to win a leadership election. Particularly in circumstances where a huge number of Tory members feel bruised, have lost their local MP, and are angry with the universe. They want answers, even if they are essentially bullshit answers.
    The first bit's easy enough- I can see him hoovering up the non-nutter MPs as Stride and Tugendhat drop out. That gets him into the final round; 40 MPs will be enough for that.

    Then it gets harder- he probably has to hope that his rival on the right says something really silly, like Leadsom did. Which isn't impossible.
    The trouble is that the 'non-nutter' MPs are qalso known as the careerist MPs. They'll attach themselves to whomever they think will win.
    Given the Conservatives are two steps away from extinction, careerists invested in keeping the show on the road might be a little useful.
    Like they did by knifing Boris and installing Sunak? Yeh OK.
    Knifing Boris and installing Truss?
    Sounds like he had a hernia operation

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.







  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,778
    Leon said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    OK, fair enough, even as someone who despises pets and, even more, their weak-minded pathetic hypocritical planet-killing, bird-slaughtering, river-poisoning, child-maiming, park-poo-filling owners... that is really quite cute, It almost makes me want...

    No. NO.

    NO
    Cold.


  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,251
    edited August 13

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    edited August 13
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    OK, fair enough, even as someone who despises pets and, even more, their weak-minded pathetic hypocritical planet-killing, bird-slaughtering, river-poisoning, child-maiming, park-poo-filling owners... that is really quite cute, It almost makes me want...

    No. NO.

    NO
    Cold.


    Nah, I've run out our of cutesy-pie empathy already

    Grow up, it's a fucking cat in a paper bag. And a bird killer

    Humans are pathetic
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415
    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    FPT from @Stuartinromford:

    The breakdown of the economically inactive:

    Roughly:
    2.7 million students
    1.7 million looking after family/home
    0.2 million temporary sick
    2.8 million long term sick
    0.03 million discouraged
    1 million retired
    1 million other

    I'd be fascinated to know what the "Other" category covers but there you go.

    How to get some of these back into employment preferably with more carrot than stick?

    2.8m long term sick is the obvious standout (perhaps it always has been). However is our labour force participation rate that different to other countries. And I know from family experience that these things overlap. For instance long term sick caring for relatives.
    Eyeballing the spreadsheet (at https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/economicinactivity/datasets/economicinactivitybyreasonnotseasonallyadjustedinac01nsa if someone wants to analyse it properly on a proper screen), long term sick has been wobbling around 2 million for a couple of decades, and jumped during the plague.

    Otherwise- somewhat more students since the mid 90s, somewhat fewer homekeepers, but most of the numbers pretty stable.
    Not particularly surprising given the known sequelae of covid. A bit less than a million extra implies about 1-2% occurrence of long covid which isn't that amazing, especially if the data are a little old.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/25/about-2m-people-long-covid-england-scotland-ons-figures

    Edit: but of course some of the increase could be ascribed to increased NHS backlogs for operations, of course.
    Also possibly due to the tech slowdown, ad downturn, and the collapse in film/tv production as a knock-on effect of last year's strikes in the US?

    None of this has shown up in our unemployment stats - but you'd expect that given that most people employed in those sectors will have more than £16k to their name so won't be eligible for benefits.

    There may be a couple of hundred thousand affected, but they'll only start to feed through into the stats as they exhaust their savings.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,517
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    @leon is going to explode.

    F*cking pets etc etc...
    I wonder what his thoughts on crochet are.
    Actually, more than the dog or the amusing crochet what that photo makes me think is: perhaps it might be rather nice to have a sunny garden, and a patio, and a garden table. And a wife who crochets things. Homo domesticus. The quieter life. There is no shame in it, and sometimes from my perspective it is deeply enviable

    Trouble is I have only met one woman with whom I could remotely have considered a life like that (and even then I severely wonder). And she was 21 and I was 55, so it was doomed. Ah well

    Some of us are farmers, some of us are hunter gatherers, and thus is the world, and we play the hand we are dealt by the Lord
    If it is any consolation @leon I have to clean that patio.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,645
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.
    Another dimension to the housing question which defies simple analysis or simplistic solutions. It costs a lot to build and those costs are passed on to the purchaser thus keeping housing prices high which works well for a lot of other interests just not those needing a home.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348

    Re some recent posts, if the war in Ukraine reaches a nuclear crisis, we are not near that moment yet.

    The only conceivable scenario is if Putin knows he has completely lost and sees no way out other than to roll the dice and fire a warning shot. At that point it is not clear whether he would be able to go through with it, because if Putin loses it is not clear his chain of command would be willing to go down with him, and it must be more likely that he’d never manage to get as far as executing that decision before there would be regime change.

    Yes, those in the chain of command know exactly where this ends up, and can be expected to intervene in a number of different ways to prevent the launch, which even if it were to be commanded might be somewhat unreliable.
  • darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.







    Build costs are only astronomical if you choose them to be. Its a preposterous price for a 1-2 bed apartment and someone has seen the Council taxpayers coming and made off like a bandit if they've charged that for construction.

    Around here you could get a full five bedroom detached home for considerably less than that, all built, with the developers profit and the land. Not a 1-2 bed apartment.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,062

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Oh for fucks sake. Wales is not a colony. It was conquered, not colonised. The biggest influx of people into Wales was during the Industrial Revolution.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    LOL except most of you cant speak welsh.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,738
    edited August 13
    Taz said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
    Shame the Welsh made eagles extinct there.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    Sandpit said:

    Re some recent posts, if the war in Ukraine reaches a nuclear crisis, we are not near that moment yet.

    The only conceivable scenario is if Putin knows he has completely lost and sees no way out other than to roll the dice and fire a warning shot. At that point it is not clear whether he would be able to go through with it, because if Putin loses it is not clear his chain of command would be willing to go down with him, and it must be more likely that he’d never manage to get as far as executing that decision before there would be regime change.

    Yes, those in the chain of command know exactly where this ends up, and can be expected to intervene in a number of different ways to prevent the launch, which even if it were to be commanded might be somewhat unreliable.
    the MAD theory in action
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    @leon is going to explode.

    F*cking pets etc etc...
    I wonder what his thoughts on crochet are.
    Actually, more than the dog or the amusing crochet what that photo makes me think is: perhaps it might be rather nice to have a sunny garden, and a patio, and a garden table. And a wife who crochets things. Homo domesticus. The quieter life. There is no shame in it, and sometimes from my perspective it is deeply enviable

    Trouble is I have only met one woman with whom I could remotely have considered a life like that (and even then I severely wonder). And she was 21 and I was 55, so it was doomed. Ah well

    Some of us are farmers, some of us are hunter gatherers, and thus is the world, and we play the hand we are dealt by the Lord
    If it is any consolation @leon I have to clean that patio.
    That did occur to me. Indeed it occurs to me a lot

    I have a small one bed flat. It can get frustrating - even tho I am only here about 30% of the year - and I find myself looking enviously at things like your patio, or other people's gardens, or pools, or big houses, or nice cars (I dumped my car 2 years ago)

    But then I remind myself, someone has to clean that patio, pool, house, someone has to pay all the crap and deal with hassle associated with nice cars, big houses, etc

    My conclusuon in life is that essentially we rent everything. Including our own bodies. No one ever "owns" anything, apart from the restricted sense of property which you can hand on as a significant financial asset to your kids. Everything in life is transient and that is its beauty, and accepting that actually makes for greater happiness. No one OWNS nuffink
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348
    edited August 13
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Shane Gillis.

    https://x.com/aghamilton29/status/1822742151639515594

    Surely SNL’s Trump this autumn.

    (Oh, this was a sold-out comedy show at Madison Square Garden last weekend).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,552
    Taz said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
    I know, it should be the White Sheep Movement.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,096

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Indian rail stations can have signage in up to THREE languages: English, Hindi, and the local state language where applicable.
  • stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.
    Another dimension to the housing question which defies simple analysis or simplistic solutions. It costs a lot to build and those costs are passed on to the purchaser thus keeping housing prices high which works well for a lot of other interests just not those needing a home.
    Costs of building is a cost of actually doing something and a cost that needs paying. But that's a small element of properties overall cost.

    Pre-1948 land cost 2% of a properties costs, nowadays land costs over a third of the cost meaning that build cost (and the developers own profits etc) is considerably under two thirds.

    Get consent and you can add 00's to the price of land, drop those 00's back off and the price of homes would collapse while still being able to pay for build cost in full.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,639

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Stupid place to pick for it, though, given that’s an area where very few people speak Welsh. They’d have been better off trying it in Gwynedd, especially the more remote rural areas around Tywyn and Machynlleth.

    The only snag there, of course, is that few places have English names…Barmouth, Fairbourne, Bala, and er…
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,062
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    It’s because they can’t credibly say that any more, unless they actually intend to. The nuclear threats were always a bluff, and they knew that. Because they absolutely know that the US can actually nuke Moscow within minutes.
    What I'm scared of: The Russians use nukes on their own soil (as old Soviet nuclear doctrine permitted). We can't exactly respond to them effectively using their own fist to punch themselves. But the level of civilian panic in the West (think how excitable Leon gets, multiply it) plus the market reaction in the West - would be a weapon of mass chaos.

    I rate it as unlikely but non-zero. Especially if Putin starts running out of cards to play.
    Putin going for nuclear release on his own soil brings into play two other possibilities

    1) this triggers the “fuck this shit” moment in someone in his inner circle. And the push him out of a window. In his bunker 18 stories below ground.
    2) it cracks the general Russian belief in his leadership.
    3) it means delegating and releasing tactical nuclear weapons to local commanders. Which is trusting them a lot. See 1)
    4) related to 3) is the issue of where to strike. Contrary to the movies nukes don’t eliminate everything. A couple of miles from a small tac nuke and you survive. So unless you are aiming accurately at a specific target, you risk missing. Or only hitting a tiny part of the offensive. So, you might need to use a Big Weapon…..
    For some reason, President Putin of Russia and President Clark of the Earth Alliance are one and the same in my head sometimes.

    I imagine if he can push the proverbial button from his office, he would, but as you say, in the real world there is a chain of command that would require a lot of other people to be prepared to carry out the order.

    A world where he issues the order is possible, a world where he issues the order and gets thrown out of the nearest window is more likely...
    Deleted: reply to wrong quote
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,453
    edited August 13
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    The problem with nuclear weapons is, when do you use them? Obviously, if a nuclear-armed adversary has fired their nukes at you then you fire yours back. But otherwise, where is your red line?

    Do you use them because an enemy has seized a tiny border village? Overkill, surely. A small town? A city? Two cities?

    Nuclear weapons kinda work by creating deterrence. No-one invades you, because they don't know whether you'd use nuclear weapons in response.

    But Russia has destroyed the deterrence value of its nuclear weapons against Ukraine by making so many absurd threats about their use during the course of the disastrous 30 months of this war. And so Ukraine can waltz into Kursk, confident that no nuclear missiles will come back the other way.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,062
    kjh said:



    For light relief my wife has crocheted our dog. Her first attempt at crocheting. I know - why?

    To provide scale?
  • darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    The problem with nuclear weapons is, when do you use them? Obviously, if a nuclear-armed adversary has fired their nukes at you then you fire yours back. But otherwise, where is your red line?

    Do you use them because an enemy has seized a tiny border village? Overkill, surely. A small town? A city? Two cities?

    Nuclear weapons kinda work by creating deterrence. No-one invades you, because they don't know whether you'd use nuclear weapons in response.

    But Russia has destroyed the deterrence value of its nuclear weapons against Ukraine by making so many absurd threats about their use during the course of the disastrous 30 months of this war. And so Ukraine can waltz into Kursk, confident that no nuclear missiles will come back the other way.
    Its the boiled frog and Putin has ensured that Russia is the frog.

    At the start of this war we had hyperventilating individuals here (and genuine politicians abroad) saying that Russia couldn't lose "because nukes".

    But every step of the way Ukraine has taken another step to defend itself, such that the next step is reasonable, and there's no way for it to "escalate" so now we're in a position where Ukrainian forces using NATO equipment are moving freely inside Russia and Putin is impotent.

    And if Ukrainian forces can be inside Russia, why not use long-range missiles.

    So the frog continues boiling.
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Shane Gillis.

    https://x.com/aghamilton29/status/1822742151639515594

    Surely SNL’s Trump this autumn.

    (Oh, this was a sold-out comedy show at Madison Square Garden last weekend).
    Brilliant!

    Only issue is he was a bit too well spoken and clear to be 2024 Trump, but he's got the invisible accordion down pat.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Riots show white working-class boys feel ‘distanced’ from society, says Mel Stride

    Tory leadership hopeful says unrest took place against backdrop of job security and home ownership feeling out of reach for poor white males"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/13/riots-white-working-class-boys-distanced-society-mel-stride/

    What to do.
    Well they will find regular employment and credit rating significantly worse with a criminal record.
    The problem here is that actually, the problem becomes socialised; IE the stay in jail is paid for out of 'general taxation' (circa £100k), then the stay in jail is so long they have no future afterwards, so it just means they probably get ill or something, and then clog up the NHS, or keep going back in to crime, so more police/jail time. If the structure is such that these people don't then have the ability to get a job, a house, start a family etc, I am not sure where they are left. I would welcome your solutions to this @foxy as one of the more wise/smarter posters on this website and I am sure that you can see the problem.
    Oh absolutely. They have trapped themselves into a downward spiral of jail, homelessness, broken relationships and unemployment.

    There needs to be much more emphasis on rehabilitation, education and training in prison, coupled with psychological support to get then off drugs etc.

    And a less punitive approach to employing ex-cons. Timpson is the one for this.
    Timpson has a great attitude, we need more like him.

    Getting a job is top of the list of reasons for not ending up back inside.
    It's startling how many defendants are from 'no fixed abode'.
    It's slightly misleading given the current delays in our justice system, though.

    If you're waiting for trial for over six months, you'll probably have lost your job. Sure, there'll be benefits available to people who are out on bail, but in most cases that won't cover their existing rent. It's hardly a surprise that many will end up in temporary accommodation or some other living situation that means they count as being of no fixed abode by the time they go to trial.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,692
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Trump set to the Seinfeld music, it works.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOLyi_4AbQ
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,778

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    The problem with nuclear weapons is, when do you use them? Obviously, if a nuclear-armed adversary has fired their nukes at you then you fire yours back. But otherwise, where is your red line?

    Do you use them because an enemy has seized a tiny border village? Overkill, surely. A small town? A city? Two cities?

    Nuclear weapons kinda work by creating deterrence. No-one invades you, because they don't know whether you'd use nuclear weapons in response.

    But Russia has destroyed the deterrence value of its nuclear weapons against Ukraine by making so many absurd threats about their use during the course of the disastrous 30 months of this war. And so Ukraine can waltz into Kursk, confident that no nuclear missiles will come back the other way.
    They’re still very clear about how they view Europe.
    If they ever again get the chance.

    Russian propagandists are back to "Russian borders end nowhere":
    ▪️ It is necessary to create the same thing as in Kharkiv region - a sanitary zone in Sumy region.
    ▪️ The question is: where does it end? The only reasonable sanitary zone - the one in which America will remain through the big puddle. But it is necessary to reach the border of this big puddle.

    https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1823315352282906915
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,062

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    It’s because they can’t credibly say that any more, unless they actually intend to. The nuclear threats were always a bluff, and they knew that. Because they absolutely know that the US can actually nuke Moscow within minutes.
    What I'm scared of: The Russians use nukes on their own soil (as old Soviet nuclear doctrine permitted). We can't exactly respond to them effectively using their own fist to punch themselves. But the level of civilian panic in the West (think how excitable Leon gets, multiply it) plus the market reaction in the West - would be a weapon of mass chaos.

    I rate it as unlikely but non-zero. Especially if Putin starts running out of cards to play.
    Putin going for nuclear release on his own soil brings into play two other possibilities

    1) this triggers the “fuck this shit” moment in someone in his inner circle. And the push him out of a window. In his bunker 18 stories below ground.
    2) it cracks the general Russian belief in his leadership.
    3) it means delegating and releasing tactical nuclear weapons to local commanders. Which is trusting them a lot. See 1)
    4) related to 3) is the issue of where to strike. Contrary to the movies nukes don’t eliminate everything. A couple of miles from a small tac nuke and you survive. So unless you are aiming accurately at a specific target, you risk missing. Or only hitting a tiny part of the offensive. So, you might need to use a Big Weapon…..
    For some reason, President Putin of Russia and President Clark of the Earth Alliance are one and the same in my head sometimes.

    I imagine if he can push the proverbial button from his office, he would, but as you say, in the real world there is a chain of command that would require a lot of other people to be prepared to carry out the order.

    A world where he issues the order is possible, a world where he issues the order and gets thrown out of the nearest window is more likely...
    The end of Red Storm Rising…
    I listened to RSR a year or two ago, and it's still a blooming great book. It's a shame Clancy went increasingly cuckoo as time went on.
    The youtuber "fixedit" has combined DCS graphics and the audiobook and some open-source synth music to produce an absolutely banging adaptation. You can find it here:

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxpgm7y5A3_k9s491juhph21h0O_yk79n&si=SGcawIGZKvEMrp8w
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,639
    Anyway, in important news:

    Stokes out due to getting injured playing a pointless match in a pointless tournament. (And by the way, thanks a fucking bunch Oval so-called Invincibles for signing several top class fast bowlers, never using them and not releasing them to their counties. You are charmers.)

    Pope to captain, having captained one first team match in his career.

    No cover called up even though there’s no other proper all-rounder in the squad and England’s ageing bowling attack is infamously more fragile than a Ming vase.

    Plus we’re playing a makeshift opener.

    If they are going to do stupid stuff like get their key player injured, at least call up some fecking cover.

    For Stokes, surely Ed Barnard or Ryan Higgins could do a job. They’re not in his class but they’re both accomplished batsmen and Barnard is a fine bowler (Higgins is better with the bat but would be good for 15 overs dry to rotate the seamers).

    For Crawley, well, Lawrence may do OK but surely in Stokes’ absence too Jennings or Lees might have been worth a call up?

    Key really is a fool. But to be fair, it’s not just him…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    No; I read it as the flats being sold at about half that price. The rest is the deficit.
  • The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Shane Gillis.

    https://x.com/aghamilton29/status/1822742151639515594

    Surely SNL’s Trump this autumn.

    (Oh, this was a sold-out comedy show at Madison Square Garden last weekend).
    I'm glad he's back, and uncancelled, because he is genuinely funny. Funnier than any UK stand-up, that I know of
  • Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    No; I read it as the flats being sold at about half that price. The rest is the deficit.
    Yes, so they weren't just valuing 1-2 bedroom flats in Birmingham at half a million pounds each, but they spent £325m on the development of 755 homes.

    So they spent close to a cool half million each on 1-2 bed flats, and then don't understand why they've got no money left.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215

    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.
    Another dimension to the housing question which defies simple analysis or simplistic solutions. It costs a lot to build and those costs are passed on to the purchaser thus keeping housing prices high which works well for a lot of other interests just not those needing a home.
    Costs of building is a cost of actually doing something and a cost that needs paying. But that's a small element of properties overall cost.

    Pre-1948 land cost 2% of a properties costs, nowadays land costs over a third of the cost meaning that build cost (and the developers own profits etc) is considerably under two thirds.

    Get consent and you can add 00's to the price of land, drop those 00's back off and the price of homes would collapse while still being able to pay for build cost in full.
    The build costs are what they are. One problem is significant extra costs are loaded on to flats due to regulation, and flats have lower sale prices than houses.

    There are some planning changes afoot. The labour government are allocating lots more land for development, including parts of the green belt. One element is effectively forcing landowners to sell in the green belt for a small increase over the existing use value. The idea is that the prices stay high but the uplift is captured and spent on infrastructure/social housing. I am not sure it will work out that well... landowners and their advisors won't run the risks of going through planning for a small increase in land value over say the agricultural use value, which is peanuts.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,576
    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,062
    Taz said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
    For a nation with the coolest national animal in history, why in the name of gott in himmel did they name themselves after a bloody Serbian paramilitary group instead??

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_(paramilitary)

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,461
    edited August 13
    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.
    Another dimension to the housing question which defies simple analysis or simplistic solutions. It costs a lot to build and those costs are passed on to the purchaser thus keeping housing prices high which works well for a lot of other interests just not those needing a home.
    Costs of building is a cost of actually doing something and a cost that needs paying. But that's a small element of properties overall cost.

    Pre-1948 land cost 2% of a properties costs, nowadays land costs over a third of the cost meaning that build cost (and the developers own profits etc) is considerably under two thirds.

    Get consent and you can add 00's to the price of land, drop those 00's back off and the price of homes would collapse while still being able to pay for build cost in full.
    The build costs are what they are. One problem is significant extra costs are loaded on to flats due to regulation, and flats have lower sale prices than houses.

    There are some planning changes afoot. The labour government are allocating lots more land for development, including parts of the green belt. One element is effectively forcing landowners to sell in the green belt for a small increase over the existing use value. The idea is that the prices stay high but the uplift is captured and spent on infrastructure/social housing. I am not sure it will work out that well... landowners and their advisors won't run the risks of going through planning for a small increase in land value over say the agricultural use value, which is peanuts.
    Yes the problem is that land should cost peanuts but if permission is granted then suddenly its got 00's added to the price which means that is the starting point to which build costs get added to.

    My solution is to let anyone build wherever the hell they want and let people sort it out themselves.

    That means that all land will equalise down at the peanuts price, which will knock that differential off the costs of houses.

    Build costs are what they are as you need to pay for labour and materials (but breaking up the oligopoly by removing barriers to competition will help) but land is only what it is because of the permission requirement.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,639
    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Ahem.

    I hate to be pedantic* but;

    The word is 'Saeson.'

    *This is officially the X most unconvincing lie told in the last 24 hours, pending an official count of the number in that Trump/Musk porno.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
    Performative indignation, as the council will be round with the paint stripper in a day or two.

    It's the relentless indignation at merely having *bilingual* signs that is so appalling, and that has been coming from the Anglophone side for decades.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,534
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
    I'll mark you down as a 'no' for a Guardian subscription?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,639
    edited August 13
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
    For a nation with the coolest national animal in history, why in the name of gott in himmel did they name themselves after a bloody Serbian paramilitary group instead??

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_(paramilitary)

    It's presumably a reference to the royal titles of the medieval Welsh princes, who were known as 'the great eagles of Snowdonia' (the Welsh for Snowdonia, 'Eryri,' is derived from 'land of the eagles').
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    edited August 13

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Indian rail stations can have signage in up to THREE languages: English, Hindi, and the local state language where applicable.
    Japanese stations often have four languages. Official Japanese, simplified Japanese, and a weird phonetic Japanese (because Japanese is so hard sometimes that's the only way to let Japanese people understand where they are). Plus English
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Ahem.

    I hate to be pedantic* but;

    The word is 'Saeson.'

    *This is officially the X most unconvincing lie told in the last 24 hours, pending an official count of the number in that Trump/Musk porno.
    Thank you - very happy to be corrected. Sometimes I mentally get crosswired with the Gaelic.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,260
    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
    It might solve the Middle East if you can implement that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,348
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Shane Gillis.

    https://x.com/aghamilton29/status/1822742151639515594

    Surely SNL’s Trump this autumn.

    (Oh, this was a sold-out comedy show at Madison Square Garden last weekend).
    I'm glad he's back, and uncancelled, because he is genuinely funny. Funnier than any UK stand-up, that I know of
    Jimmy Carr live is well worth watching if you get the chance. But yes, the American comics are absolutely killing it at the moment, let by Rogan and his club in Austin, TX. Shane Gillis got cancelled from SNL and has now hosted it, which counts as having totally blown up in NYC.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,639
    edited August 13
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Ahem.

    I hate to be pedantic* but;

    The word is 'Saeson.'

    *This is officially the X most unconvincing lie told in the last 24 hours, pending an official count of the number in that Trump/Musk porno.
    Thank you - very happy to be corrected. Sometimes I mentally get crosswired with the Gaelic.
    Glad to have you join us. Thig a-steach, mo charaid.

    Edit - I was visiting Aber on Sunday and there I met a young American doing a PhD in Celtic languages supervised by an old friend of mine. He has just started taking lessons in Gaelic. In Welsh.

    Respect...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456
    edited August 13
    Leon said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Indian rail stations can have signage in up to THREE languages: English, Hindi, and the local state language where applicable.
    Japanese stations often have four languages. Official Japanese, simplified Japanese, and a weird phonetic Japanese (because Japanese is so hard sometimes that's the only way to let Japanese people understand where they are). Plus English
    There's a perhaps apocryphal anecdote in a series of adventure novels which @Theuniondivvie put us onto about a Biggles/Flashman type in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in its last years. The hero was born to the stationmaster of a place of mixed poipulation which was called Station No 845 or whatever because nobody could agree whether to use German, Italian, Croat, Czech, Magyar, Yiddish, etc. etc. and it would have been politically fatal to choose one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,362
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    Leon said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Indian rail stations can have signage in up to THREE languages: English, Hindi, and the local state language where applicable.
    Japanese stations often have four languages. Official Japanese, simplified Japanese, and a weird phonetic Japanese (because Japanese is so hard sometimes that's the only way to let Japanese people understand where they are). Plus English
    Japanese has four alphabets.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,040
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Ahem.

    I hate to be pedantic* but;

    The word is 'Saeson.'

    *This is officially the X most unconvincing lie told in the last 24 hours, pending an official count of the number in that Trump/Musk porno.
    Thank you - very happy to be corrected. Sometimes I mentally get crosswired with the Gaelic.
    Glad to have you join us. Thig a-steach, mo charaid.

    Edit - I was visiting Aber on Sunday and there I met a young American doing a PhD in Celtic languages supervised by an old friend of mine. He has just started taking lessons in Gaelic. In Welsh.

    Respect...
    Part of the charm of foreign travel is to escape the Anglosphere for a while. That the English can achieve this simply by driving west for a couple of hours just shows how lucky they are.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Oh God, popped-in to see what's happening, and Barty's still going on about planning.

    What is is about PB posters and their pet obsessions?
  • kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
    It might solve the Middle East if you can implement that.
    Indeed. My problem with this organisation, twinned as it is with a Serbian paramilitary group, is that its actions will add nothing to the sum of human happiness in Wales, looking to the past to mine old grievances rather than looking to the future and to the wider world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:


    Leon said:

    Trump: climate change will give us more ocean front properties.

    If that's a joke it's a fucking brilliant joke. And he is not without wit
    Trump can be genuinely funny, sometimes intentionally so, I recall John Oliver making that point several years ago even as he said he hated to admit it (I very much doubt he woudl concede the point today). He was hilarious mocking Rubio for sweating so much in a speech.

    He's been less funny for the last few years because he's so bitter and raging all the time, and less coherent, so it's almost all very serious and the humour has mostly been at his expense when saying something wacky.
    Yep. There was a famous comic who got cancelled for saying "Chinky" (a comic who does a superb Trump impression) who made the same point. Trump is GENUINELY funny. I suspect he got cancelled more because he said this about Trump than dropping the Chinkybomb

    is Chinky OK? How paranoid are we now? Seriously? I wonder

    Frog? Kraut? Rosbif? Cracker? Taffy?
    Shane Gillis.

    https://x.com/aghamilton29/status/1822742151639515594

    Surely SNL’s Trump this autumn.

    (Oh, this was a sold-out comedy show at Madison Square Garden last weekend).
    I'm glad he's back, and uncancelled, because he is genuinely funny. Funnier than any UK stand-up, that I know of
    Jimmy Carr live is well worth watching if you get the chance. But yes, the American comics are absolutely killing it at the moment, let by Rogan and his club in Austin, TX. Shane Gillis got cancelled from SNL and has now hosted it, which counts as having totally blown up in NYC.
    American comedy seems to be moving beyond Woke, finally. which is absolutely essential for comedy

    Britain is still pitifully immersed in this dreadful, creativity-killing shite

    In the end I predict we will see deeply rightwing and deeply subversive comics, because that is how it swings. And they will make big money. We will probably see the return of clearly racist jokes, because the first person to brake a taboo makes the cash, and humour - as Freud noted - is about 65% breaking taboos

    Sorry, PB, but that is how culture evolves. Don't shoot me
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,506

    Oh God, popped-in to see what's happening, and Barty's still going on about planning.

    What is is about PB posters and their pet obsessions?

    Or exterminate all pets obsessions.
  • Oh God, popped-in to see what's happening, and Barty's still going on about planning.

    What is is about PB posters and their pet obsessions?

    I wasn't the one to bring it up, and its a major problem that needs fixing in this country.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,276
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Indian rail stations can have signage in up to THREE languages: English, Hindi, and the local state language where applicable.
    Japanese stations often have four languages. Official Japanese, simplified Japanese, and a weird phonetic Japanese (because Japanese is so hard sometimes that's the only way to let Japanese people understand where they are). Plus English
    There's a perhaps apocryphal anecdote in a series of adventure novels which @Theuniondivvie put us onto about a Biggles/Flashman type in the Austro-Hungarian Empire in its last years. The hero was born to the stationmaster of a place of mixed poipulation which was called Station No 845 or whatever because nobody could agree whether to use German, Italian, Croat, Czech, Magyar, Yiddish, etc. etc. and it would have been politically fatal to choose one.
    Indeed. Look at the nominal history of Chernivtsi, Ukraine, where I spent a happy week last year

    It's had about 10 names in 300 years
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456

    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Yes, there is something wrong. Being wronged in the past does not make you entitle to wrong others in the present.
    It might solve the Middle East if you can implement that.
    Indeed. My problem with this organisation, twinned as it is with a Serbian paramilitary group, is that its actions will add nothing to the sum of human happiness in Wales, looking to the past to mine old grievances rather than looking to the future and to the wider world.
    Bit unfair. The Welsh got to the eagles first. That's like blaming the 17th/21st Lancers for the SS.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,477
    Nigelb said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting thread on Russia’s response to the Ukranian invasion:

    https://x.com/arturrehi/status/1822957775921492440

    “And not a word about the nuclear bomb. This situation in Kursk is an excellent example for the West that if Russia is dealt a serious blow, talk of escalation and the Red Button ceases. During the offensive on the Kursk region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces threw their most combat-ready units into battle, choosing the weakest point of the Russian border for the attack.”

    The thing I find odd about this situation is that there is no talk about nuclear escalation. I had the working assumption that the conflict was contrived and could not be won as Russia has 'red lines' namely the threat of nuclear escalation which seemed to emerge as soon as Ukraine started to succeed, but it is very curious now as to why they are not.
    The problem with nuclear weapons is, when do you use them? Obviously, if a nuclear-armed adversary has fired their nukes at you then you fire yours back. But otherwise, where is your red line?

    Do you use them because an enemy has seized a tiny border village? Overkill, surely. A small town? A city? Two cities?

    Nuclear weapons kinda work by creating deterrence. No-one invades you, because they don't know whether you'd use nuclear weapons in response.

    But Russia has destroyed the deterrence value of its nuclear weapons against Ukraine by making so many absurd threats about their use during the course of the disastrous 30 months of this war. And so Ukraine can waltz into Kursk, confident that no nuclear missiles will come back the other way.
    They’re still very clear about how they view Europe.
    If they ever again get the chance.

    Russian propagandists are back to "Russian borders end nowhere":
    ▪️ It is necessary to create the same thing as in Kharkiv region - a sanitary zone in Sumy region.
    ▪️ The question is: where does it end? The only reasonable sanitary zone - the one in which America will remain through the big puddle. But it is necessary to reach the border of this big puddle.

    https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1823315352282906915
    This is the point I've made throughout this mess: Russian rhetoric does not back their insipid lickspittle followers and excusers in the west. It's alright saying: "Jack the Ripper is just misunderstood; his victims are really the aggressors," when Jack is standing in the corner of the room shouting how he's going to kill every woman from Blackfriars to Bow.

    Everything about Moscow's rhetoric says that this is about more than just Ukraine, or Ukrainian Nazis, or even NATO. It is about trying to recreate an evil that belongs in the past. Why do some people hate fascism and imperialism, except when it is Russian imperialism and fascism? And Russia is not exactly being quiet about being both imperialistic and fascist.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,119
    edited August 13

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    Why on earth should Welsh placenames be up in two languages? Do you see Firenze also signposted as Florence for the benefit of English speakers? Do the Germans helpfully write
    Cologne after Koeln?

    Most of us can just about work out that Caerdydd actually means Cardiff, and most other Welsh placenames are similarly fathomable. As for those that aren't, if the English want to call Abertawe by the name of Swansea, that's up to us, but I don't see why the Welsh should go to any trouble or expense to accommodate our whims.
    Only about 15-20% of the Welsh population can read and write Welsh proficiently. Why on earth are you making comparisons to Italy or Germany ?
    After the way the language has been treated over the years by those in charge? Nothing wrong with a bit of role reversal to even out the balance a fraction. The Saesun are showing how the Welsh have felt for centuries.
    Ahem.

    I hate to be pedantic* but;

    The word is 'Saeson.'

    *This is officially the X most unconvincing lie told in the last 24 hours, pending an official count of the number in that Trump/Musk porno.
    Thank you - very happy to be corrected. Sometimes I mentally get crosswired with the Gaelic.
    Glad to have you join us. Thig a-steach, mo charaid.

    Edit - I was visiting Aber on Sunday and there I met a young American doing a PhD in Celtic languages supervised by an old friend of mine. He has just started taking lessons in Gaelic. In Welsh.

    Respect...
    Part of the charm of foreign travel is to escape the Anglosphere for a while. That the English can achieve this simply by driving west for a couple of hours just shows how lucky they are.
    One of the other joys is thunderstorms. We’ve had 4 days of sweltering weather and cobalt blue skies, then suddenly this evening the sky clouds over, violent zephyrs blow around the washing, the sunbed cushions and all the nearby trees, and ominous rumbles and flashes emanate from the South West horizon.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,389
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    The Welsh are so insular, it's why nobody likes them.

    ‘Unnecessary’ English place names covered up on Welsh road signs

    White Eagle activists on a mission to ‘deanglicise’ country


    English place names have been covered up on some Welsh road signs by a group which says it wants to “deanglicise” the country.

    The Mudiad Eryr Wen, (White Eagle Movement), this week claimed responsibility for daubing green paint across road signs on the A525, between St Asaph and Denbigh in North Wales.

    Non-Welsh-speaking motorists navigating by street signs would have to negotiate the five miles between Llanelwy and Dinbych on their own as a result of the spray-painting.

    “Deanglicise Wales!” the Eryr Wen group posted on social media along with pictures of the signs they had defaced.

    “Imposed and unnecessary English place names have been removed from signage across Sir Ddinbych. Decolonise our geography!”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/13/english-place-names-covered-welsh-road-signs-denbigh-deface/

    White Eagle Movement. Doesn’t sound at all nationalistic !
    For a nation with the coolest national animal in history, why in the name of gott in himmel did they name themselves after a bloody Serbian paramilitary group instead??

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Eagles_(paramilitary)

    Oh, the dragon? My first thought was sheep!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,456

    Oh God, popped-in to see what's happening, and Barty's still going on about planning.

    What is is about PB posters and their pet obsessions?

    I wasn't the one to bring it up, and its a major problem that needs fixing in this country.
    People do like a Bonio to gnaw upon.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,215

    darkage said:

    stodge said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Birmingham council to sell off athletes’ village homes at more than £300m loss
    Sale of hundreds of empty homes designed, but not used, for Commonwealth Games attacked as ‘absolute scandal’

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/13/birmingham-council-to-sell-off-athletes-village-homes-at-more-than-300m-loss

    Basically: 700 homes delayed by Covid to be sold off to a private company by a bankrupt council.

    What the …..

    ”But the properties have sat empty for months, with the council unable to sell them due to a lack of “market appetite” for one- and two-bedroom apartments in the area, and issues with mortgage providers valuing the properties at less than they were being sold for.

    “A report presented to the council’s cabinet last week said selling off 755 properties to a private bidder, who has yet to be named, would result in a “significant loss to the public purse” but was the best outcome.

    “It added that selling the apartments off individually would take more than five years, during which time the council would have to maintain the buildings “at significant expense” and would have to deal with unstable market conditions.

    “The council has spent £325m on the development, of which £292m was borrowed. After selling off the homes, it is expected that £142m-£152m of debt will remain unpaid, costing £8m-£9m a year over a 40-year period to repay, taking the projected total loss in the region of £320m.”


    How would it ever take five years to sell the apartments? All they needed to do was drop the price to what the banks would mortgage, and they’d be sold in weeks. Instead, they’ve sold them en masse as a massive discount.
    £325 million for 755 one to two bed apartments?

    That works out at nearly half a million pounds per one or two bed apartment.

    In Birmingham, not London.

    WTAF? I know the property market is overvalued, but not that overvalued surely?
    It isn’t. The council spent that much on them, expecting them to be the athlete’s village for the Commonweath Games. But they weren’t finished on time, the athletes stayed elsewhere, and their disposal value is half the cost of building them.

    And yet we still wonder why councils are going bankrupt.
    By my calculation based on that article, the flats cost £335k each to build (including land cost) and were sold off in bulk for the equivalent of £200k each. However it is in a low land value area so most of the cost was clearly absorbed in building purpose built specialist accommodation.

    I have commented before that build costs are astronomical , it is a combination of material cost, labour cost, and regulation cost. From what I have seen recently, the cost of building this type of development in London is now £3500/ sqm.
    Another dimension to the housing question which defies simple analysis or simplistic solutions. It costs a lot to build and those costs are passed on to the purchaser thus keeping housing prices high which works well for a lot of other interests just not those needing a home.
    Costs of building is a cost of actually doing something and a cost that needs paying. But that's a small element of properties overall cost.

    Pre-1948 land cost 2% of a properties costs, nowadays land costs over a third of the cost meaning that build cost (and the developers own profits etc) is considerably under two thirds.

    Get consent and you can add 00's to the price of land, drop those 00's back off and the price of homes would collapse while still being able to pay for build cost in full.
    The build costs are what they are. One problem is significant extra costs are loaded on to flats due to regulation, and flats have lower sale prices than houses.

    There are some planning changes afoot. The labour government are allocating lots more land for development, including parts of the green belt. One element is effectively forcing landowners to sell in the green belt for a small increase over the existing use value. The idea is that the prices stay high but the uplift is captured and spent on infrastructure/social housing. I am not sure it will work out that well... landowners and their advisors won't run the risks of going through planning for a small increase in land value over say the agricultural use value, which is peanuts.
    Yes the problem is that land should cost peanuts but if permission is granted then suddenly its got 00's added to the price which means that is the starting point to which build costs get added to.

    My solution is to let anyone build wherever the hell they want and let people sort it out themselves.

    That means that all land will equalise down at the peanuts price, which will knock that differential off the costs of houses.

    Build costs are what they are as you need to pay for labour and materials (but breaking up the oligopoly by removing barriers to competition will help) but land is only what it is because of the permission requirement.
    Based on past exchanges, I don't think this is really your solution; you want to allocate land for development and then set out design codes, it isn't the same as removing the requirement for planning permission and having a free for all.

    One problem is who pays for the infrastructure. Planning gain is subsidising infrastructure and to a large degree, the construction of social/subsidised housing, and this is reflected in a proportion of the 'cost' of new houses. If you remove that element the cost will be socialised , ie it comes out of general taxation.

    Another problem is that landowners won't be incentivised to sell if the price is 'peanuts', they have to have some financial incentive, or otherwise be legally compelled to sell, which is inevitably messy.

This discussion has been closed.