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The next game changer? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,047
edited August 26 in General
The next game changer? – politicalbetting.com

BREAKING: ABC says Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have agreed to a Sept. 10 presidential debate, setting up a faceoff between the Republican and Democratic nominees. https://t.co/zYEQPi7dv5

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    E pluribus unum?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    E pluribus unum?

    E pluribus infernum
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    There must be a chance that if she refuses the Fox News one he'll not turn up to ABC?

    Although it's a racing certainty that if she turns up for Fox News he'll find an excuse to duck the rest.

    Bottom line is, I don't think we should take this debate going ahead for granted merely because Trump says he's agreed to it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    @acnewsitics

    Trump: I went down in a helicopter with Willie Brown!

    Willie Brown: That shit never happened.

    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1821690503328411855
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    edited August 9
    Scott_xP said:

    @acnewsitics

    Trump: I went down in a helicopter with Willie Brown!

    Willie Brown: That shit never happened.

    https://x.com/acnewsitics/status/1821690503328411855

    Seems (a) it was Jerry Brown (b) there was a helicopter ride but not a crash and (c) it's nothing to do with Kamala Harris.

    This is why I was confident Biden would still win...

    Still could have been worse. He might have said he went down on Brown's Willie in a helicopter.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    ydoethur said:

    There must be a chance that if she refuses the Fox News one he'll not turn up to ABC?

    Although it's a racing certainty that if she turns up for Fox News he'll find an excuse to duck the rest.

    Bottom line is, I don't think we should take this debate going ahead for granted merely because Trump says he's agreed to it.

    If Trumpty Dumpty wants to get out of it he'll just keep making the terms of engagement lean so far in his favour that she'll say no and then he'll accuse Harris of chickening out
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Brooke, it's insane that Harman, or anyone else, should just pick a demographic as essential to a successor. Competence trumps everything. And ruling out half the population because of their chromosomes is crackers.

    But that's just me. Some people like overt bigotry.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481

    ydoethur said:

    There must be a chance that if she refuses the Fox News one he'll not turn up to ABC?

    Although it's a racing certainty that if she turns up for Fox News he'll find an excuse to duck the rest.

    Bottom line is, I don't think we should take this debate going ahead for granted merely because Trump says he's agreed to it.

    If Trumpty Dumpty wants to get out of it he'll just keep making the terms of engagement lean so far in his favour that she'll say no and then he'll accuse Harris of chickening out
    That's why the Fox debate has no chance in hell of occurring while the ABC one will...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327

    ydoethur said:

    There must be a chance that if she refuses the Fox News one he'll not turn up to ABC?

    Although it's a racing certainty that if she turns up for Fox News he'll find an excuse to duck the rest.

    Bottom line is, I don't think we should take this debate going ahead for granted merely because Trump says he's agreed to it.

    If Trumpty Dumpty wants to get out of it he'll just keep making the terms of engagement lean so far in his favour that she'll say no and then he'll accuse Harris of chickening out
    He doesn't want to get out now though. Before, he was leading and could ignore Biden if he wished or take the easy hits, "I don't know what he was saying there, I'm not even sure he does". Now, he's behind and needs a game changer to recover momentum. His campaign seems short of money, for whatever reason he's cut right back on rallies and advertising. Prime time TV for free looks like a good option.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Mr. Brooke, it's insane that Harman, or anyone else, should just pick a demographic as essential to a successor. Competence trumps everything. And ruling out half the population because of their chromosomes is crackers.

    But that's just me. Some people like overt bigotry.

    I'm pretty sure she said it just to trigger you.
    It's not as though there's a vacancy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    Foxy said:
    Nah, Liz Truss was brought down by the lefty financial markets.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    There must be a chance that if she refuses the Fox News one he'll not turn up to ABC?

    Although it's a racing certainty that if she turns up for Fox News he'll find an excuse to duck the rest.

    Bottom line is, I don't think we should take this debate going ahead for granted merely because Trump says he's agreed to it.

    If Trumpty Dumpty wants to get out of it he'll just keep making the terms of engagement lean so far in his favour that she'll say no and then he'll accuse Harris of chickening out
    He doesn't want to get out now though. Before, he was leading and could ignore Biden if he wished or take the easy hits, "I don't know what he was saying there, I'm not even sure he does". Now, he's behind and needs a game changer to recover momentum. His campaign seems short of money, for whatever reason he's cut right back on rallies and advertising. Prime time TV for free looks like a good option.
    He's cut down on rallies because of the security risks involved.

    The lack of advertising is interesting and says he's short of money (having spent it on legal fees).
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    edited August 9
    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    Foxy said:
    Whereas no Tory male leader has ever been brought down by men in their own party !!
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Brooke, it's insane that Harman, or anyone else, should just pick a demographic as essential to a successor. Competence trumps everything. And ruling out half the population because of their chromosomes is crackers.

    But that's just me. Some people like overt bigotry.

    I'm pretty sure she said it just to trigger you.
    It's not as though there's a vacancy.
    I doubt she even knows who Morris Dancer is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    The most extraordinary thing about Trump's press conference yesterday is the way in which the media still parse his incoherent utterances.
    Listening to the BBC account this morning, you'd have no idea that it was an hour long rant, unmoored from reality.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    Overnight, Ukrainian drone strikes hit the Lipetsk Air Base in western Russia, which caused detonations at an ammunition depot located on the territory of the air base.

    Local authorities declared a state of emergency and started evacuating a number of settlements situated near the air base.

    Lipetsk is located approx. 300km from the border with Ukraine.


    https://x.com/Archer83Able/status/1821741213671710949

    Second one of those in a week. Well done Ukraine.

    The ‘ammo’ stored at air bases is unlikely to be thousands of 152mm tank rounds either, it’s more likely to be ammo for the planes that fly there, expensive and rare bombs and missiles.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    I doubt the debates make anywhere near as much difference for Harris as they did for Biden in June.

    Otherwise Trump's poll rating was largely unchanged after he debated Biden in 2020 and Hillary in 2016
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627
    Nigelb said:

    The most extraordinary thing about Trump's press conference yesterday is the way in which the media still parse his incoherent utterances.
    Listening to the BBC account this morning, you'd have no idea that it was an hour long rant, unmoored from reality.

    TBF, I don't think you'd really need to listen to it to make that assumption. Just know who was speaking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Weren't you listening to MorrisD ?
    Competence trumps everything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Brooke, it's insane that Harman, or anyone else, should just pick a demographic as essential to a successor. Competence trumps everything. And ruling out half the population because of their chromosomes is crackers.

    But that's just me. Some people like overt bigotry.

    I'm pretty sure she said it just to trigger you.
    It's not as though there's a vacancy.
    I doubt she even knows who Morris Dancer is.
    You don't say.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited August 9

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    HYUFD said:

    I doubt the debates make anywhere near as much difference for Harris as they did for Biden in June.

    Otherwise Trump's poll rating was largely unchanged after he debated Biden in 2020 and Hillary in 2016

    They don't need to - I think it's very hard to win a debate but it's incredibly easy to lose them (as Biden did).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,723
    Sandpit said:

    Overnight, Ukrainian drone strikes hit the Lipetsk Air Base in western Russia, which caused detonations at an ammunition depot located on the territory of the air base.

    Local authorities declared a state of emergency and started evacuating a number of settlements situated near the air base.

    Lipetsk is located approx. 300km from the border with Ukraine.


    https://x.com/Archer83Able/status/1821741213671710949

    Second one of those in a week. Well done Ukraine.

    The ‘ammo’ stored at air bases is unlikely to be thousands of 152mm tank rounds either, it’s more likely to be ammo for the planes that fly there, expensive and rare bombs and missiles.
    The real targets are the cheap and cheerful (and numerous) Russian glide bombs that have been launched at Ukrainian defences - and have been brutally effective. Stopping these would be a significant win.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Weren't you listening to MorrisD ?
    Competence trumps everything.
    Of course, I have no doubt Labour is packed full of incompetent placewomen.

    Let's start with Rachel Reeves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Sandpit said:

    Overnight, Ukrainian drone strikes hit the Lipetsk Air Base in western Russia, which caused detonations at an ammunition depot located on the territory of the air base.

    Local authorities declared a state of emergency and started evacuating a number of settlements situated near the air base.

    Lipetsk is located approx. 300km from the border with Ukraine.


    https://x.com/Archer83Able/status/1821741213671710949

    Second one of those in a week. Well done Ukraine.

    The ‘ammo’ stored at air bases is unlikely to be thousands of 152mm tank rounds either, it’s more likely to be ammo for the planes that fly there, expensive and rare bombs and missiles.
    Their glide bombs are neither rare, nor particularly expensive.
    But they will have made quite the mess.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    The Ukranian invasion of Russia continues, with photos of Ukranian troops 30km inside Russia.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821605436124217567

    The Russians are also still moving armoured vehicles around in easy to-target convoys.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821675342718755206

    And the Ukranians are flying drones into tail rotors of Russian helicopters, with the inevitable result.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821368749884076516
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    edited August 9
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    Sandpit said:

    Overnight, Ukrainian drone strikes hit the Lipetsk Air Base in western Russia, which caused detonations at an ammunition depot located on the territory of the air base.

    Local authorities declared a state of emergency and started evacuating a number of settlements situated near the air base.

    Lipetsk is located approx. 300km from the border with Ukraine.


    https://x.com/Archer83Able/status/1821741213671710949

    Second one of those in a week. Well done Ukraine.

    The ‘ammo’ stored at air bases is unlikely to be thousands of 152mm tank rounds either, it’s more likely to be ammo for the planes that fly there, expensive and rare bombs and missiles.
    The real targets are the cheap and cheerful (and numerous) Russian glide bombs that have been launched at Ukrainian defences - and have been brutally effective. Stopping these would be a significant win.
    Fair point. The cheap and cheerful ones have been doing the job for the enemy over the past few weeks, and they’ll make one hell of a boom if a store room full of them were to go off.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Foxy said:
    It's almost as if politics, a notoriously cutthroat arena regardless of gender, continues to involve men. Shocking.

    Next, maybe we can marvel at how water remains wet and the sun rises in the east.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited August 9

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
    And yet, winning a massive majority. It's almost as if the voters don't mind.

    Do you think it a mistake?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
    And yet, winning a massive majority.

    Do you think it a mistake?
    oh let's not confuse the vagaries of the electoral system with popularity.

    I mean weve just had a week of riots against this failing government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    Nigelb said:

    The most extraordinary thing about Trump's press conference yesterday is the way in which the media still parse his incoherent utterances.
    Listening to the BBC account this morning, you'd have no idea that it was an hour long rant, unmoored from reality.

    A better comedy writer than me could come up with a sketch of Trump ranting about all the journalists in the crowd watching the running races instead of him talking, that finishes with him calling Noah Lyles “N****r Lyers, that loser”, and asking whether Sydney McLaughlin is Australian or Scottish.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,206

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    Look, somebody has to make the tea,
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    I think there are plenty.

    But Starmer demonstrated his competence in the only place that matters, at the ballot box.

    The turnaround from the 2019 defeat is undeniably one of the great electoral transformations of modern British politics.

    The same goes for Ed Davey too.

    The Tories would be well advised to choose competence over diversity too, not that they have much to choose from.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,627

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
    And yet, winning a massive majority.

    Do you think it a mistake?
    oh let's not confuse the vagaries of the electoral system with popularity.

    I mean weve just had a week of riots against this failing government.
    Comfortably exceeded in numbers by massive peaceful anti-fascist demonstrations.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Yes, student visa applications are way down this year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/08/sharp-fall-in-international-applicants-wanting-to-study-at-uk-universities
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
    That's the BF view at moment.

    Obvs depends on what the MPs do.

    Is it me or does this contest not feel like it has got started?
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Mr. Brooke, it's insane that Harman, or anyone else, should just pick a demographic as essential to a successor. Competence trumps everything. And ruling out half the population because of their chromosomes is crackers.

    But that's just me. Some people like overt bigotry.

    I'm pretty sure she said it just to trigger you.
    It's not as though there's a vacancy.
    I doubt she even knows who Morris Dancer is.
    You don't say.
    I just did :wink:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    That the trouble with you damn wokists - wanting the diversity pick over the best person for the job.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    I think there are plenty.

    But Starmer demonstrated his competence in the only place that matters, at the ballot box.

    The turnaround from the 2019 defeat is undeniably one of the great electoral transformations of modern British politics.

    The same goes for Ed Davey too.

    The Tories would be well advised to choose competence over diversity too, not that they have much to choose from.
    Winning on points isn't the same as dominating the field.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    He'll only be leader for two or three years if they opt for him. Public will never go for him: just another rich smoothy over promoted public school type with a oxbridge degree and little in public life to show for it.

    (NB: Yes I know he actually went to a grammar school but not how public will see it).
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    The Conservative Party is in a bad place and they have a poor set of candidate leaders to get them out of it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    So are the care workers who come here, bringing multiple economically inactive dependents, only short term ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    edited August 9

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
    And yet, winning a massive majority.

    Do you think it a mistake?
    I mean weve just had a week of riots against this failing government.
    Well, it’s a take.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
    That's the BF view at moment.

    Obvs depends on what the MPs do.

    Is it me or does this contest not feel like it has got started?
    When in government, it all happens rather quickly for the obvious reason that they don’t want to keep a sitting duck in No.10 for any longer than they have to.

    In opposition, it’s much easier, and much better, to take time, allow the candidates opportunities to speak, be interviewed, write think pieces, and be judged on their merits, rather than judging them primarily on their personality as happens in government.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    That the trouble with you damn wokists - wanting the diversity pick over the best person for the job.
    I just find it fascinating that @Foxy doesn't think there were any competent ones in Labour.

    Absolutely fascinating.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,007
    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    It would be very welcome news for Labour if net migration falls markedly under their watch. Even if it's not their doing.

    Hopefully we can still attract enough overseas students to pay the bills at proper universities and colleges.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    The Shadow Communities Secretary has been the invisible woman this week.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/08/like-a-submarine-tories-criticise-kemi-badenochs-low-profile-during-riots

    When riots reared their ugly head, Kemi bravely turned and fled,

    Brave, brave Ms Kemi...

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
    How did it happen that in one year overseas students were suddenly allowed to bring their families with them, a couple of hundred thousand extra people requiring housing and public services?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    That the trouble with you damn wokists - wanting the diversity pick over the best person for the job.
    I just find it fascinating that @Foxy doesn't think there were any competent ones in Labour.

    Absolutely fascinating.
    That of course is not what he either said or implied. As well you know.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    Im simply pointing out Labour cant live by their own principles. No women leaders whereas every other major UK party seems to be able to find one within their ranlks.

    I mean less progressive than the DUP - who would have thought it ?
    And yet, winning a massive majority.

    Do you think it a mistake?
    I mean weve just had a week of riots against this failing government.
    Well, it’s a take.

    Alan must be desperately disappointed the right-wing thugs have been vastly outnumbered by the peaceful majority.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    The Conservative Party is in a bad place and they have a poor set of candidate leaders to get them out of it.
    Should add Badenoch may actually surprise on the upside. But she needs a lot of upside to surprise on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    Look, somebody has to make the tea,
    Learn to count.
    https://labour.org.uk/about-us/the-cabinet/

    Since you don't rate any of them, any comments on their capacity from you are irrelevant to the conversation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    A shocking video showing what the riot police have to deal with.

    I must say that, at the end, it does look like a lot of very young men (<25) - maybe gangs - are involved and this really does remind of the 2011 England riots, where a lot seemed to have joined in for the nihilism:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c86lqldp26xo
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited August 9
    FPT:
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The UK seems to have finally found a use for all that empty retail space on the High Street: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x0x6ypgneo

    It's a start, I suppose, but I can't help thinking converting it into housing would be better.

    There needs to be severely escalating business rates charged on empty retail space.

    The basic underlying issue is that landlords won’t reduce rents in line with market expectations, because that means having to mark down the value of the asset on their books. They would rather the units stay empty, often for years, than be revalued.

    That’s the stick. The carrot can be that turning retail space into housing doesn’t require planning permission.
    We have a lot of retail space in Dundee city centre that has been empty for more than 20 years. The problem with converting it is that planning permission for housing requires them to provide parking etc for residents which simply cannot be done in city centres at an economic cost. So we sit surrounded by dilapidating buildings making the High Street and associated streets ever less desirable. Its a negative spiral we really need to break.
    Well you’ve got at least four options there.
    1. Knock down one of the units and use for parking.
    2. Lease parking spaces in a council-owned car park somewhere close by.
    3. Allow residents to buy season tickets for on-street parking in the centre zone.
    4. Just sell the units with no parking, and let the residents find somewhere to park on the street.

    As always, the issue is planning, and the inability of everyone to think outside the box in persuance of the goal of using the space for housing.
    Nope - not full Planning.

    Planning Permission has not been required for retail to residential conversions since 2021, and before then it was only Change of Use and Building Regs, which was not onerous.

    I should know - I looked at a project around 2017 for my own family's rental shop, but mum popped her clogs first so we sold it quickly at auction.

    The issue will be what it was when Cameron & Co introduced Permitted Development Office -> Housing conversions in ~2013, which has generated a *lot* of housing units but also a lot a miserably substandard shoebox flats, and a crop of scandals.

    The problem is quality / liveability and enforcement of adequate quality, and the only way to do that is through more capacity and professionalism in the Building Control departments of Local Authorities.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Huge, if true...

    Trump: “Elon [Musk] endorsed me full throated”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1821700724004192745
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
    How did it happen that in one year overseas students were suddenly allowed to bring their families with them, a couple of hundred thousand extra people requiring housing and public services?
    At the time I think there was a desperation for H&SC workers.

    But, yes, astonishingly naïve since it's a huge and obvious backdoor migration route to the UK.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    That the trouble with you damn wokists - wanting the diversity pick over the best person for the job.
    I just find it fascinating that @Foxy doesn't think there were any competent ones in Labour.

    Absolutely fascinating.
    That of course is not what he either said or implied. As well you know.
    The mask slipped.

    Fascinating.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    Look, somebody has to make the tea,
    Learn to count.
    https://labour.org.uk/about-us/the-cabinet/

    Since you don't rate any of them, any comments on their capacity from you are irrelevant to the conversation.
    What a motely crew.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Good morning everyone.

    Looking at segments of Mr Chump's Press Conference last night, the supine nature of the USA MSM is quite astonishing.

    They all carried it all live, and afaics from analysis he lied in every single answer, and there was zero holding to account.

    Then they did not run the Harris speech live afterwards.

    WTF?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
    I don't think it's wishful thinking, the raw application data shows a huge decrease in arrivals vs the same time last year.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,139

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
    That's the BF view at moment.

    Obvs depends on what the MPs do.

    Is it me or does this contest not feel like it has got started?
    Not yet. But I expect a lot of lobbying and conversations amongst MPs (outwith the public eye) are taking place.

    I will be looking for clear thinking and a clear plan. However, I suspect - as usual - the candidate who wins will be the one who projects the right "vibe".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Nigelb said:

    Huge, if true...

    Trump: “Elon [Musk] endorsed me full throated”
    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1821700724004192745

    The Donald and truth rarely cross paths.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 983
    Leicestershire County Council plans to build 2,750 homes and lots of new warehouses on fields (they let to tenant farmers) to the East of J20 of the M1 have hit a problem - They can't get anyone to build the houses because of the slump in the housing market. They want to reduce the 40% affordable home condition and now want to build the warehouses first.

    The plan was mad - the noise from the motorway would make it too noisy to sit in your garden.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    The Conservative Party is in a bad place and they have a poor set of candidate leaders to get them out of it.
    Should add Badenoch may actually surprise on the upside. But she needs a lot of upside to surprise on.
    I don't think she is ready for prime time myself. Needs another few years. She might have been better sitting it out.

    But if I was voting as a member I might be tempted to roll the dice and give her a go as the others are so lacklustre.
  • Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
    How did it happen that in one year overseas students were suddenly allowed to bring their families with them, a couple of hundred thousand extra people requiring housing and public services?
    At the time I think there was a desperation for H&SC workers.

    But, yes, astonishingly naïve since it's a huge and obvious backdoor migration route to the UK.
    Was it naïve or was it deliberate?

    If it was to fill the shortage for H&SC workers, then it was deliberate.

    I did a Masters course 20 years ago, obviously technology has changed since, but my version of a Masters course involved me going to University and doing the course and having a lot of coursework to write and work on.

    It did not involve me working full time on minimum wage at a care home while my phone was left open on a Zoom lecture to which I was paying no attention while I was getting on with my job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited August 9
    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    don't like Badenoch much, but she'd be a far better leader than Jenrick.
    The Conservative Party is in a bad place and they have a poor set of candidate leaders to get them out of it.
    Fortunately for them Starmer is no Blair either. If interest rates and inflation and taxes go up, growth slows and the Labour government also fails to stop the boats any of Tory leadership candidates would have a chance of beating Starmer next time. After all Starmer Labour only got 33% even on 4th July compared to the 43% Blair's New Labour got in 1997.

    Probably best to avoid Priti though who has much worse net negatives than the rest of them
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    The sector needs this like a hole in the head at the moment. Dire.

    Zoe Gardner
    @ZoeJardiniere

    -Applications for care worker visas are down 81% on last year

    https://x.com/ZoeJardiniere/status/1821789681375162400
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    Look, somebody has to make the tea,
    Learn to count.
    https://labour.org.uk/about-us/the-cabinet/

    Since you don't rate any of them, any comments on their capacity from you are irrelevant to the conversation.
    What a motely crew.
    Though having more than doubled their number of MPs this year should have a much larger field of potential ministers to choose from.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Apparently, Walz wrote his masters thesis on improving Holocaust education.

    Fascinating 2008 column from the @nytimes archives about @Tim_Walz
    teaching a genocide course in a rural high school. People now casually use the word “genocide” without knowing historical contexts. Walz told his students to investigate the origins of mass murder.

    https://x.com/ewong/status/1821535323127435421
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Icarus said:

    Leicestershire County Council plans to build 2,750 homes and lots of new warehouses on fields (they let to tenant farmers) to the East of J20 of the M1 have hit a problem - They can't get anyone to build the houses because of the slump in the housing market. They want to reduce the 40% affordable home condition and now want to build the warehouses first.

    The plan was mad - the noise from the motorway would make it too noisy to sit in your garden.

    A couple of things:

    1. Plenty of homes are built close to motorways. There's a lot that can be done to reduce the noise impact.
    2. The 'slump in the housing market' is almost certainly going to switch to a mini-boom in the autumn with falling mortgage rates kicking in. https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/07/uk-house-prices-to-rise-through-rest-of-year-after-jump-in-july
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,388
    Sandpit said:

    The Ukranian invasion of Russia continues, with photos of Ukranian troops 30km inside Russia.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821605436124217567

    The Russians are also still moving armoured vehicles around in easy to-target convoys.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821675342718755206

    And the Ukranians are flying drones into tail rotors of Russian helicopters, with the inevitable result.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821368749884076516

    Would be excellent trolling to hold a referendum in the area of Russia they’ve captured and ask if they want to join Ukraine…
  • The sector needs this like a hole in the head at the moment. Dire.

    Zoe Gardner
    @ZoeJardiniere

    -Applications for care worker visas are down 81% on last year

    https://x.com/ZoeJardiniere/status/1821789681375162400

    It bloody well does, I completely agree.

    Pay care workers a living wage, not minimum wage.

    I have no problem with immigration but we should be bringing skilled workers on high wages into this country, not serfs on minimum wage so firms can avoid paying a market rate for wages.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Looking at segments of Mr Chump's Press Conference last night, the supine nature of the USA MSM is quite astonishing.

    They all carried it all live, and afaics from analysis he lied in every single answer, and there was zero holding to account.

    Then they did not run the Harris speech live afterwards.

    WTF?

    It's been that way since he first ran.
    And it's probably a lot to do with why he beat Clinton.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    edited August 9

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Migration Observatory suggesting that the annual run rate for net migration will drop to under 200k by the end of the year. I really wouldn't be surprised if next year we get net emigration because the arrivals from student visas are much lower than the students + dependents leaving at the end of their freebie 2 years and new care worker visa arrivals not getting dependant rights as the previous batch going home on the old scheme which did have them.

    Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.

    But it does seem incredulous that Sunak didn't do this a year earlier, soon after he took office, because if he'd gone into the election with this story he'd have saved dozens and dozens of seats from Reform.
    How did it happen that in one year overseas students were suddenly allowed to bring their families with them, a couple of hundred thousand extra people requiring housing and public services?
    At the time I think there was a desperation for H&SC workers.

    But, yes, astonishingly naïve since it's a huge and obvious backdoor migration route to the UK.
    As I might have said dozens of times, if they want to recruit H&SC workers all they need to do is set up a recruitment centre in Manila. They’d have tens of thousands of young ladies, without dependents, queuing around the block to sign up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited August 9

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
    If if was just down to the members it would be but MPs get the final say on the last 2.

    There are more than enough Tory MPs from the liberal One Nation wing now to get Tugendhat or Stride in the last 2 against one of Badenoch or Jenrick. Remember the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than it was in 2019 and there are now more Tory MPs from Scotland (who are also largely from the One Nation wing) than the North East, North West and Wales combined and the same number of Tory MPs from London as Yorkshire and Humber (Rishi doing relatively well in the capital compared to Boris on 4th July but much worse in the rest of the country)

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    Look, somebody has to make the tea,
    Learn to count.
    https://labour.org.uk/about-us/the-cabinet/

    Since you don't rate any of them, any comments on their capacity from you are irrelevant to the conversation.
    What a motely crew.
    Thank you for making my point.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    Well at least they had female leaders. And BAME ones too.

    Whereas the party of upper middle class white men just rolls on

    Diversity diversity but not for us.
    Competence trumps diversity, which is why Starmer won a landslide.

    You might get over it one day.
    So, you think there were no competent females or ethnic minority candidates within Labour then?

    Interesting.
    That the trouble with you damn wokists - wanting the diversity pick over the best person for the job.
    I just find it fascinating that @Foxy doesn't think there were any competent ones in Labour.

    Absolutely fascinating.
    That of course is not what he either said or implied. As well you know.
    The mask slipped.

    Fascinating.
    I see you've adopted Trump's approach to the truth.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited August 9
    Icarus said:

    Leicestershire County Council plans to build 2,750 homes and lots of new warehouses on fields (they let to tenant farmers) to the East of J20 of the M1 have hit a problem - They can't get anyone to build the houses because of the slump in the housing market. They want to reduce the 40% affordable home condition and now want to build the warehouses first.

    The plan was mad - the noise from the motorway would make it too noisy to sit in your garden.

    That sounds manageable, and afaik can be mitigated in umpteen different ways, from belts of trees or a woodland nature reserve to block sounds or diffuse prevailing wind, to sound barriers, to embankments, to modestly reducing the speed limit on the motorway.

    TBH that sounds like one for whatever new approach the Government are bringing forward. There's plenty of history of LA lead development. And tipping the market away from large developers a little could be beneficial.

    The strategic things imo are around making a sustainable community.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The UK seems to have finally found a use for all that empty retail space on the High Street: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x0x6ypgneo

    It's a start, I suppose, but I can't help thinking converting it into housing would be better.

    There needs to be severely escalating business rates charged on empty retail space.

    The basic underlying issue is that landlords won’t reduce rents in line with market expectations, because that means having to mark down the value of the asset on their books. They would rather the units stay empty, often for years, than be revalued.

    That’s the stick. The carrot can be that turning retail space into housing doesn’t require planning permission.
    We have a lot of retail space in Dundee city centre that has been empty for more than 20 years. The problem with converting it is that planning permission for housing requires them to provide parking etc for residents which simply cannot be done in city centres at an economic cost. So we sit surrounded by dilapidating buildings making the High Street and associated streets ever less desirable. Its a negative spiral we really need to break.
    Well you’ve got at least four options there.
    1. Knock down one of the units and use for parking.
    2. Lease parking spaces in a council-owned car park somewhere close by.
    3. Allow residents to buy season tickets for on-street parking in the centre zone.
    4. Just sell the units with no parking, and let the residents find somewhere to park on the street.

    As always, the issue is planning, and the inability of everyone to think outside the box in persuance of the goal of using the space for housing.
    Nope - not full Planning.

    Planning Permission has not been required for retail to residential conversions since 2021, and before then it was only Change of Use and Building Regs, which was not onerous.

    I should know - I looked at a project around 2017 for my own family's rental shop, but mum popped her clogs first so we sold it quickly at auction.

    The issue will be what it was when Cameron & Co introduced Permitted Development Office -> Housing conversions in ~2013, which has generated a *lot* of housing units but also a lot a miserably substandard shoebox flats, and a crop of scandals.

    The problem is quality / liveability and enforcement of adequate quality, and the only way to do that is through more capacity and professionalism in the Building Control departments of Local Authorities.
    The main issue is that the owners of the empty units don’t want to have anyone question the value of them, preferring to leave them empty than see them revalued.
  • Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The UK seems to have finally found a use for all that empty retail space on the High Street: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x0x6ypgneo

    It's a start, I suppose, but I can't help thinking converting it into housing would be better.

    There needs to be severely escalating business rates charged on empty retail space.

    The basic underlying issue is that landlords won’t reduce rents in line with market expectations, because that means having to mark down the value of the asset on their books. They would rather the units stay empty, often for years, than be revalued.

    That’s the stick. The carrot can be that turning retail space into housing doesn’t require planning permission.
    We have a lot of retail space in Dundee city centre that has been empty for more than 20 years. The problem with converting it is that planning permission for housing requires them to provide parking etc for residents which simply cannot be done in city centres at an economic cost. So we sit surrounded by dilapidating buildings making the High Street and associated streets ever less desirable. Its a negative spiral we really need to break.
    Well you’ve got at least four options there.
    1. Knock down one of the units and use for parking.
    2. Lease parking spaces in a council-owned car park somewhere close by.
    3. Allow residents to buy season tickets for on-street parking in the centre zone.
    4. Just sell the units with no parking, and let the residents find somewhere to park on the street.

    As always, the issue is planning, and the inability of everyone to think outside the box in persuance of the goal of using the space for housing.
    Nope - not full Planning.

    Planning Permission has not been required for retail to residential conversions since 2021, and before then it was only Change of Use and Building Regs, which was not onerous.

    I should know - I looked at a project around 2017 for my own family's rental shop, but mum popped her clogs first so we sold it quickly at auction.

    The issue will be what it was when Cameron & Co introduced Permitted Development Office -> Housing conversions in ~2013, which has generated a *lot* of housing units but also a lot a miserably substandard shoebox flats, and a crop of scandals.

    The problem is quality / liveability and enforcement of adequate quality, and the only way to do that is through more capacity and professionalism in the Building Control departments of Local Authorities.
    The main issue is that the owners of the empty units don’t want to have anyone question the value of them, preferring to leave them empty than see them revalued.
    A problem readily fixed by having a land value tax so that the owners of the empty units are left paying through the nose if they want to keep a hold of the empty units, or they can accept reality so that a tenant pays the tax, or they can sell the land (at market rate) to whomever is willing to put the land to good use.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited August 9

    Icarus said:

    Leicestershire County Council plans to build 2,750 homes and lots of new warehouses on fields (they let to tenant farmers) to the East of J20 of the M1 have hit a problem - They can't get anyone to build the houses because of the slump in the housing market. They want to reduce the 40% affordable home condition and now want to build the warehouses first.

    The plan was mad - the noise from the motorway would make it too noisy to sit in your garden.

    A couple of things:

    1. Plenty of homes are built close to motorways. There's a lot that can be done to reduce the noise impact.
    2. The 'slump in the housing market' is almost certainly going to switch to a mini-boom in the autumn with falling mortgage rates kicking in. https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/07/uk-house-prices-to-rise-through-rest-of-year-after-jump-in-july
    This is the Lutterworth East development:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rwwx9zy51o

    Though pretty standard for developers to get permission first, promising affordable homes, then suddenly find the project unviable unless they build 4 bed "executive" houses on tiny plots instead of their commitment. It's developer's gamesmanship.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukranian invasion of Russia continues, with photos of Ukranian troops 30km inside Russia.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821605436124217567

    The Russians are also still moving armoured vehicles around in easy to-target convoys.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821675342718755206

    And the Ukranians are flying drones into tail rotors of Russian helicopters, with the inevitable result.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1821368749884076516

    Would be excellent trolling to hold a referendum in the area of Russia they’ve captured and ask if they want to join Ukraine…
    It might. But since in a free and fair referendum the answer would be a resounding 'no' and any other sort would piss NATO off, it isn't happening.

    What did strike me as interesting are the number of furious evacuees begging Putin for help, still loudly supporting what they call the 'SMO' and yet blaming him as much as the Ukrainians for their plight.

    Exactly what the Ukrainians want still isn't clear (at least to me) but I'm sure they will count making Putin look very stupid as a definite win.
    Massive props to all the Ukranians involved in this operation.

    One assumes they’re some of the best forces they have, and they know they’re going to have to extract themselves from Russia on their own, once the enemy finds enough troops to tackle them.

    In the meantime though, it’s fcuking hillarious! Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited August 9
    HYUFD said:

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    40m
    Kemi Badenoch way out in front according to ConHome’s members’ poll.

    Robert Jenrick in second again with little to separate Tom Tugendhat, James Cleverly and Priti Patel for third.

    It will be Badenoch v. Jenrick, I think.
    If if was just down to the members it would be but MPs get the final say on the last 2.

    There are more than enough Tory MPs from the liberal One Nation wing now to get Tugendhat or Stride in the last 2 against one of Badenoch or Jenrick. Remember the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than it was in 2019 and there are now more Tory MPs from Scotland (who are also largely from the One Nation wing) than the North East, North West and Wales combined and the same number of Tory MPs from London as Yorkshire and Humber (Rishi doing relatively well in the capital compared to Boris on 4th July but much worse in the rest of the country)

    Remember too most of the new Tory MPs who did get elected on 4th July were largely Rishi loyalists parachuted into safe seats by CCHQ and most of them are likely to back Stride or Tugendhat with a few for Cleverly or Jenrick
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The UK seems to have finally found a use for all that empty retail space on the High Street: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2x0x6ypgneo

    It's a start, I suppose, but I can't help thinking converting it into housing would be better.

    There needs to be severely escalating business rates charged on empty retail space.

    The basic underlying issue is that landlords won’t reduce rents in line with market expectations, because that means having to mark down the value of the asset on their books. They would rather the units stay empty, often for years, than be revalued.

    That’s the stick. The carrot can be that turning retail space into housing doesn’t require planning permission.
    We have a lot of retail space in Dundee city centre that has been empty for more than 20 years. The problem with converting it is that planning permission for housing requires them to provide parking etc for residents which simply cannot be done in city centres at an economic cost. So we sit surrounded by dilapidating buildings making the High Street and associated streets ever less desirable. Its a negative spiral we really need to break.
    Well you’ve got at least four options there.
    1. Knock down one of the units and use for parking.
    2. Lease parking spaces in a council-owned car park somewhere close by.
    3. Allow residents to buy season tickets for on-street parking in the centre zone.
    4. Just sell the units with no parking, and let the residents find somewhere to park on the street.

    As always, the issue is planning, and the inability of everyone to think outside the box in persuance of the goal of using the space for housing.
    Nope - not full Planning.

    Planning Permission has not been required for retail to residential conversions since 2021, and before then it was only Change of Use and Building Regs, which was not onerous.

    I should know - I looked at a project around 2017 for my own family's rental shop, but mum popped her clogs first so we sold it quickly at auction.

    The issue will be what it was when Cameron & Co introduced Permitted Development Office -> Housing conversions in ~2013, which has generated a *lot* of housing units but also a lot a miserably substandard shoebox flats, and a crop of scandals.

    The problem is quality / liveability and enforcement of adequate quality, and the only way to do that is through more capacity and professionalism in the Building Control departments of Local Authorities.
    Interesting, I did not know that. How come it is so difficult to convert a pub to a house? E.g. this place would be worth 2-3 times as much as a house:

    Malet Arms
  • Foxy said:

    Icarus said:

    Leicestershire County Council plans to build 2,750 homes and lots of new warehouses on fields (they let to tenant farmers) to the East of J20 of the M1 have hit a problem - They can't get anyone to build the houses because of the slump in the housing market. They want to reduce the 40% affordable home condition and now want to build the warehouses first.

    The plan was mad - the noise from the motorway would make it too noisy to sit in your garden.

    A couple of things:

    1. Plenty of homes are built close to motorways. There's a lot that can be done to reduce the noise impact.
    2. The 'slump in the housing market' is almost certainly going to switch to a mini-boom in the autumn with falling mortgage rates kicking in. https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/07/uk-house-prices-to-rise-through-rest-of-year-after-jump-in-july
    This is the Lutterworth East development:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rwwx9zy51o

    Though pretty standard for developers to get permission first, promising affordable homes, then suddenly find the project unviable unless they build 4 bed "executive" houses on tiny plots instead of their commitment. It's developer's gamesmanship.
    Good, what's wrong with that?

    Build ten million 4 bed homes across the country, instead of shitty "affordable" flats, and the housing crisis would be over and 4 bed homes could become the default for people to have. What exactly is your problem?

    And people moving out of pre-existing affordable 3 beds or flats into better, newer, 4 bed houses frees up the older stock for those who want something affordable.
This discussion has been closed.