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Today is the day of crossover – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    DavidL said:

    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.

    Oi!

    Ah, ok I see!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Eabhal said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    I'd add that, just as with every episode of mass disorder that I've seen, going back to the 80s, the police will be arresting lots of people later.

    Because there are too many to arrest while trying to do something about public order, too many to arrest in a pitch battle/provoking a pitch battle etc etc.

    The ones they've arrested so far are the easy pickings and the immediate problems on the day.

    Time and again, people complain "why aren't they dragged *all* of X off?"

    Then, over days and weeks, the police go round and collect them from their mums basements and attics. One by one.
    The guy jailed for throwing an egg was only nicked because he walked past the egged constable the next day.
    And more will be found as the CCTV and police photographers* stuff gets reviewed.

    *The Black Blok types rage about the police photography of riots. No matter how they try to disguise themselves, those guys are always finding evidence.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edit
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    Taz said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Due to significant changes on this platform in recent months, X is no longer consistent with our Trust values. Therefore RNOH is closing its account. Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn. Thanks to everyone who has followed & supported us for the last 13 years.

    https://x.com/RNOHnhs/status/1821456025553076606

    I wonder if many other public bodies will follow suit

    Nunu5 said:

    Due to significant changes on this platform in recent months, X is no longer consistent with our Trust values. Therefore RNOH is closing its account. Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn. Thanks to everyone who has followed & supported us for the last 13 years.

    https://x.com/RNOHnhs/status/1821456025553076606

    I wonder if many other public bodies will follow suit

    Pathetic.
    It really isn't.

    At work (and in the wider industry) so many of our Tweets have ads underneath them as the first reply things like promoting scams, drop shipping scams, and racist posts, and follow all sorts of undesirables.

    The fact is with verified taking away trust, we were ahead of the RNOH.
    I use Twix on 2 accounts:
    1) My personal account. For politics stuff (as followed by various senior party people) or rants about how difficultJet seem to cancel practically Every Flight I book
    2) My JustGetATesla account which increasingly is there just to keep track on Tesla stuff. Have now blocked Musk as he's a wazzock, but still see his stuff as others repost it

    It is an absolute cesspool. I know that meta tried to launch an alternative Try Harder. Then we can all quit TwiX (and probably get sued for conspiracy to cancel Elon)
    Incidentally, I've started getting lots of hardcore pornography on Twitter again today, after a relative absence of a few months.
    (And yes, that is a complaint... ;) )
    I created a throwaway account when nitter died just to keep up various posters on the Ukraine war and very little else. Maybe the odd link posted here. It follows zero accounts.

    First post on the list today was pron, second was Elon promoting some conspiracy or other, third was crypto scamming.

    I think that's me done with the platform.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Break dancing. An Olympic event. FFS.

    What's wrong with that?

    How's it different to gymnastics?
    Quite so. I think the people who do martial arts stunts for movies should have an event, it's like rythmic gymnastics or synchronised swimming, only if you go wrong you get kicked in the face.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027

    ...

    Khan - Tories Online Safety Act not fit for purpose https://www.theguardian.com/media/article/2024/aug/08/online-safety-act-not-fit-for-purpose-far-right-riots-sadiq-khan

    Isn't the truth that too many Tories have provided succour to the rioters?

    Its Tory slogans being chanted by the rioters. Its Tory foreign shaming being hurled about by morons as justification.

    Nigel's had a big win tonight getting this Dartford Councillor (quite rightly) banged up, yet the most prolific online agent provocateur over the last fortnight has been er, let me think...
    That intimidation and threats no matter where it comes from should be followed by a long period in jail
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    14.44m, KJT’s shot put, a 52cm personal best in the event. That’s a massive achivement in the context of the heptathlon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    As we're talking about TwiX, any thoughts on the madcap plan to sue businesses who refuse to advertise on the platform?

    I believe the allegation is some kind of secret cabal that plotted apparently illegally to not spend money on their service. Not convinced there is a case to answer - if advertising on TwiX annoys your customers and thus damages your business, or even delivers poor ROI, how is choosing not to lose money illegal?

    Presumably it is the secret cabal part Musk's lawyers will focus on.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited August 8

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Seems to be a degree of panic among the Russian milibloggers over events in Kursk Oblast. Massive confusion about where Ukrainian forces are, and whether forces encountered are part of the main body of troops or sabotage/reconnaissance groups.

    No sign yet of Russian reinforcements stabilizing the situation, though there are videos of lots of Ukrainian equipment being taken out by Lancet drones.

    Still not sure whether this is just a raid, or the start of a large effort to seize Russian territory for use in bargaining during peace negotiations, or a strategy to lengthen the front line to weaken the Russian defence of occupied Ukrainian territory.

    It’s all very weird. There’s a suggestion that the Russian town of Sudzha (highlighted) is about to fall to Ukrainian troops, who have already made several km of progress into Russia. The Russians appear to be totally flat-footed, with no spare troops anywhere to come to their aid.



    Source: https://liveuamap.com/
    Reports I've heard point out that troops in Russia are likely to be wet-behind-the-ears conscripts, who are not sent to Ukraine.

    I've no idea on the UA tactics, unless they expect it to draw Russian troops away from frontlines in quantities justifying the 2-3k UA troops who are reported to be involved.
    The UA troops involved are presumably some of the best they have, who must know that they are on a suicide mission if they can’t extract themselves.

    But it does highlight that Russia can’t defend its own border, with their forces spread thinly to allow deployments further South.

    If this is a successful raid by UA troops, we might well see this as a regular occurrence. I can’t imagine that the UA army can actually hold any Russian territory for more than a few days, but they’ve shown they can do it and draw what’s likely to be a massive redeployment of Russian troops from more important (to UA) places.
    The folk looking at this escapade with greatest interest will be in Beijing.

    Everything east of the Urals is yours for the taking, guys...
    The most persuasive suggestion I have seen is to establish defensive lines across an area that Russia will be forced to retake, so the attrition of their forces can be continued after the current offensive culminates. Which would stop them putting so much focus elsewhere in that time.

    And to demonstrate Putin's weakness.

    From Anders Puck Neilson:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4mg1ZUb-7s
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Andy_JS said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    Why don't disturbances in Croydon count as a riot?
    Public Order Act 1986 section 1:
    Riot.
    (1)Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    Why don't disturbances in Croydon count as a riot?
    See my previous post on the legal definition of riot. It doesn’t meet the threshold.
    Yep. And this is the same with all of the other "Two Tier" allegations. Riot / Not A Riot is a big pivot point. Similarly A riot vs pre-planned Riots plural.

    There is a level of moral degeneracy and hopeless stupidity that is depressing about some of the people now getting their collars felt. But that is nothing compared to the opprobrium that needs to be hurled at the people who fuel them - Yaxley-Lennon and his lot, Farage and his lot, Sunak and his lot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    DavidL said:

    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.

    All the cycling events are boring, all of them.

    That we usually win more Golds is the only reason it is interesting.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Break dancing practise for the next Olympics, obviously?

    In military history lots of people have speculated about really deep raids - in modern warfare at that level, there are vast tracts of land without any military presence on them. The actual military presence is really some small dots. The lure of getting past the dots (The Soft Underbelly) and going for a drive through open country. Smashing up whatever you find.

    Think Grierson's Raid.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    NEW THREAD

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.

    Oi!

    Ah, ok I see!
    Have they done the Moped Race yet?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    rkrkrk said:

    I've had a little nibble on Vance at 319/1 to be next President. It's just possible Trump might pull out... ill health perhaps.

    If you like spectacularly long odds trading/punts, the real value may well be on the other side of that bet. Not so much laying at such long odds, but betting on a replacement Trump VP.

    I've been thinking along the same lines as Mr Herdson/Domenech, although as I've quit betting, I haven't got the time/inclination to do the deep research needed to estimate tiny probabilities;

    --

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    8m
    Given how Trump got through administration members in 2017-21, I could well believe he might dump Vance. But there'd be a cost involved. Admitting the mistake plays to charges of poor judgement.

    Either way, he doesn't have long to think about it.

    --

    David Herdson was retweeting;

    Ben Domenech
    @bdomenech
    There is a non-zero possibility that Donald Trump could decide to move on from J.D. Vance.

    https://thespectator.com/newsletter/who-will-wish-they-chose-a-different-running-mate-thunderdome-08-08-2024/

    --

    There's a lot of money to be made in the difference between 0% & 1%.
    BF doesn't have a market for 'new' veep.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dave Wasserman
    @Redistrict
    ·
    2h
    New
    @CookPolitical
    : It’s back to a Toss Up. Three Electoral College rating changes:

    AZ: Lean R to Toss Up
    NV Lean R to Toss Up
    GA: Lean R to Toss Up

    https://x.com/Redistrict/status/1821510305396220325

    It is worth remembering both Arizona and Nevada will have abortion access on the ballot. In the mid-terms, in states where that was a question it proved damaging to the Republicans.
    Trump has made clear he will leave abortion law to each state, he does not back a Federal abortion ban as some evangelicals want
    He's also spoken very highly of Project 2025, which is pretty explicitly in favour of a nationwide abortion ban, and isn't too keen on contraceptives either.
    'Three days later, Trump posted to Truth Social: “I know nothing about Project 2025.”

    “I disagree with some of the things they’re saying and some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal,” he wrote.'

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/trump-allies-project-2025/index.html
    That surely is Trump's reaction to being found out.

    There's video of him at the Heritage Foundation praising their plans for after his Election win, and more of him on his own jet with a key operative he says he knows little about.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    edited August 8
    Twitter is without peer when something goes down. An attack, etc, because much as we might mock them some herbert with a phone will be on hand to film it (the Fishmongers Hall being a prime example).

    For everything else, political commentary, views, what have you, it's bollocks.

    So it really doesn't matter if this or that NHS trust performatively abandons it. People should and will flock there after the next spectacular.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    Why don't disturbances in Croydon count as a riot?
    See my previous post on the legal definition of riot. It doesn’t meet the threshold.
    Yep. And this is the same with all of the other "Two Tier" allegations. Riot / Not A Riot is a big pivot point. Similarly A riot vs pre-planned Riots plural.

    There is a level of moral degeneracy and hopeless stupidity that is depressing about some of the people now getting their collars felt. But that is nothing compared to the opprobrium that needs to be hurled at the people who fuel them - Yaxley-Lennon and his lot, Farage and his lot, Sunak and his lot.
    Rishi Sunak???

    It’s you that sounds unhinged. Rishi Sunak is irritatingly rich and was a rather poor Premier, but he’s not Adolf Hitler, FFS
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    It's not a new dimension, its a load of crap spouted by the usual suspects who want to stand in the waay of planning reform by going yehbut it doesn't matter.

    Millions of people, 9% of the British workforce in fact, work in the construction sector.

    Get rid of the planning restrictions that mean only Barratt etc have permission to build, there's no reason more of that 9% can't be competing with Barratt etc
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,580

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    Perhaps to attack the Russians from behind without the problem of mines?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    kyf_100 said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    If it was me, I'd declare it a national emergency and set aside huge areas that could be designated as plots for shipping container homes. Allow them on land that's not designated for permanent housing, thus getting over the 'land is too expensive' problem. They don't have foundations and are moveable, so let people put them down more or less anywhere within designated 'mobile' home areas. Build roads and water/electricity connection points.

    Not ideal, but better than what we have at the minute. Model it on the Australian 'quarantine villages' they managed to build en masse in a matter of a few months - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/mining-camp-designers-plan-covid-19-quarantine-hub-in-wa/100119364

    Like our prefabs (prefabricated housing) after the war, some of which were still in use into the 1970s.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dave Wasserman
    @Redistrict
    ·
    2h
    New
    @CookPolitical
    : It’s back to a Toss Up. Three Electoral College rating changes:

    AZ: Lean R to Toss Up
    NV Lean R to Toss Up
    GA: Lean R to Toss Up

    https://x.com/Redistrict/status/1821510305396220325

    It is worth remembering both Arizona and Nevada will have abortion access on the ballot. In the mid-terms, in states where that was a question it proved damaging to the Republicans.
    The abortion bills can favour either party, depending on the exact wording of the question.

    Republicans are already going hard on the Dems who have supported third-trimester abortions, including a certain VP candidate.

    Polling on the subject almost everywhere in the US supports a more European approach, with a 12-20 week limit.
    The number of third trimester abortions anywhere is absolutely tiny, and usually only happens when there are serious medical issues.
    The number of Democrat politicians signing laws allowing for elective third-trimester abortions, on the other hand, is significant.

    Including Tim Walz.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/minnesota-governor-signs-broad-abortion-rights-bill-law-rcna68513
    Serious question that I don't know about:

    Do US States have a "Constitutional" level of State Law that is a more basic law than that passed as "State Law" - analogous to the US Constitution?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    Eabhal said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    I'd add that, just as with every episode of mass disorder that I've seen, going back to the 80s, the police will be arresting lots of people later.

    Because there are too many to arrest while trying to do something about public order, too many to arrest in a pitch battle/provoking a pitch battle etc etc.

    The ones they've arrested so far are the easy pickings and the immediate problems on the day.

    Time and again, people complain "why aren't they dragged *all* of X off?"

    Then, over days and weeks, the police go round and collect them from their mums basements and attics. One by one.
    The guy jailed for throwing an egg was only nicked because he walked past the egged constable the next day.
    And more will be found as the CCTV and police photographers* stuff gets reviewed.

    *The Black Blok types rage about the police photography of riots. No matter how they try to disguise themselves, those guys are always finding evidence.
    From Britain's newspaper of record:-

    UK riot yobs 'don't fear CCTV but they should be terrified of Super-Recognisers'
    EXCLUSIVE: Super-Recognisers 'never forget a face' and are used by police to nail down the identities of troublemaking suspects, by studying even the grainiest CCTV images

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/uk-riot-yobs-dont-fear-33412915
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited August 8

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Phil said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Kaye Hoey being extremely dishonest here.


    Kate Hoey
    @CatharineHoey
    Still no answer to why it will take to next year before Alex Rudakubana the alleged murderer of the 3 young girls in South
    Oct will stand trial ?

    Community notes can be very entertaining sometimes. A genuinely great idea.
    People dis Twitter* under Musk, but he has implemented two genuinely useful features:

    (1) Community notes
    (2) People I follow

    It means I see fewer Marjorie Taylor Greene posts. Which is good.

    * I refuse to call it "X"
    Community Notes predates Musk
    Sort of.

    There was a program that created Notes that predated Musk, but it wasn't very widespread nor was it open source - and it had a different name.

    The current version dates from Musk.
    The story I’ve seen elsewhere is that the current version was in development before Musk bought the company. He just happened to be in charge when it was finished up & pushed to production.

    Always remember the six stages of a project:

    1. Enthusiasm
    2. Disillusionment
    3. Panic
    4. Search for the Guilty
    5. Punishment of the Innocent
    6. Praise for those not involved
    There are some interesting horror stories out there about the Twitter code base and what was going on before the takeover. There was a reason that features were simply not appearing in production...
    Given Musk is apparently not a good coder, I wouldn't assume he's made the codebase any better... ;)
    You're not say that he does all the coding for his companies, are you?
    No. But I can guarantee that he will hire coders that match his image of a good coder... i.e. him. And the recruitment staff will be recruited on the same basis (I *still* see the old story of him personally interviewing all SpaceX staff...) (fx: hits head on wall.)

    SpaceX is actually different, as space and NASA demand certain boxes ticked. I bet he hates those boxes.
    Nope - long before SpaceX got a NASA contract, they were racing ahead of the rest of the Space Industry on the software side. Simply because they hired top engineers without legacy “we don’t do that here” to tell them *not do modern software development*.

    When they got a NASA contract, their system for tracking parts got all kinds of wow reviews. All they had done was implement a single logical system, using standard stuff (bar codes etc), rather than a pile of paperwork multiples by several incompatible legacy systems.

    The usage of FPGAs emulating PowerPC architecture wasn’t invented by SpaceX either. But they were one of the first to apply it to aerospace. Just as doing radiation tolerance at the macro, rather than micro level. Both were in place before NASA started audits etc. Both took a bit of convincing before they were cleared for Human Rated flight.

    The initial review of the Dragon control interface was a bit hilarious - instead of taking the “fake an aircraft dash”, the SpaceX engineers created a system of context driven, intuitive menus and screen controls, using industrial psychologists, former astronauts etc.

    The NASA reviewers initially had an Out Of Context problem - they couldn’t understand why it didn’t just have an aircraft dashboard. But once they dug into it, they really liked the concept. Which was to align the interface with the checklists and procedures, rather than have a translation layer from procedure to switches.

    On Tesla - a friend worked for Tata, in their outfit tearing down rival cars. He was a software engineer / electronics guy and his comment was that Tesla simply implemented modern software and hardware practise in an industry full of appalling IT. The mechanicals he thought were pretty poor, by comparison.

    One amusing story he told me - he was debugging a certain car. A whole pile of different computers talking to each other via a mess of cables. He eliminated a stream of errors that one computer was polluting the system with. Which caused another part of the system to crash. Turned out that the stream of errors was preventing a condition in one of the other computers. Luxury car, on the road and in production.

    There are times when I think you haven't drunk the Musk Kool-Aid, then you produce something like that.

    Musk is one man. He does not, Bill Gates-like, read every line of code. He does not do everything inside the organisation. SpaceX is different, because it took people from other space companies, who knew how to do things in space. Musk knew how to code a game. And code some of Paypal's predecessor. Badly.

    I'd strongly argue that Tesla's inability to drive from one side of the US to another - as promised by Musk in 2016 - is a sign that they're not as strong in software as you would like to think.

    I've got a counter-example for your amusing story. A German car company developed a concept car that had no direct mechanical link between steering wheel and steering, as required by law. everything in the car used the same control/data bus. It worked really well.

    Until someone changed the CD in the CD multi-changer, and so much data was sent over the bus that the steering locked up for a few seconds.

    The result: a separate bus for 'critical' functions like steering and braking. And another for non-critical functions.

    The *mess of cables* you decry might actually have sensible purposes. And this is something that *anybody* reverse-engineering anything needs to consider: if you think the people who designed the thing you're reverse-engineering was stupid; perhaps you don't understand it fully, and it is *you* who is being stupid.
    What I was saying is that Tesla and SpaceX seem to use modern IT. There is no otherworldly stuff. Just the things you'd get from hiring top end people and them having a clean slate to work on.

    The "bus" story you mention sounds like a classic of someone using technology without understanding limitations and, most importantly, best practice.

    (Snip)
    SpaceX; yes. I see zero evidence that Tesla is doing that. Closing doors/frunks that can cut carrots being an example... ;)

    The 'bus' story might also be a case of people having to get a prototype concept car out of the door quickly. I've done prototypes where (ahem) things are not quite as I would want the,..
    Using a bus that doesn't implement time criticality in the steering for a car would make it un roadworthy, IMHO.

    IIRC the time criticality thing was found and fixed in a NASA test aircraft - the pilot was making lots of stick movements to fly, exactly, the profile. He noticed that after a while, the plan started showing signs of PIO and seemed to be getting slow to react. Turned out that, with the electronics of the time, he was piling up commands on system.
    How many concept cars sniff public roads?

    This sort of issue is one of the reasons concept cars exist.

    Incidentally, I know someone who used to work for Lucas. She saw the 'new' Discovery S2 in the mid-80s when it was under development. Apparently to access the computer debug ports in the prototypes, you pulled out one of the heater/vent ports in the dashboard, which would then cause the windscreen wipers to go...
    Once you types "Lucas" in the context of electronics, everything else is pointless. Because everyone is laughing too hard to read the rest.
    Why do Brits drink warm beer?
    Because Lucas did the electronics for refrigerators.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Trump says he is willing to participate in three debates in September on Fox News, ABC and NBC. “She’s barely competent, and she can’t do an interview,” he said of Vice President Kamala Harris. “But I look forward to the debates.”

    NY Times
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Break dancing practise for the next Olympics, obviously?

    In military history lots of people have speculated about really deep raids - in modern warfare at that level, there are vast tracts of land without any military presence on them. The actual military presence is really some small dots. The lure of getting past the dots (The Soft Underbelly) and going for a drive through open country. Smashing up whatever you find.

    Think Grierson's Raid.....
    Or the Long Range Desert Group.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Trump is doing a news conference.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.

    Lawrence Freedman
    @LawDavF
    ·
    43m
    I’m trying to follow events in Kursk closely but to be honest I’ve got a limited view of what is going on and no idea how it will end.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    rkrkrk said:

    I've had a little nibble on Vance at 319/1 to be next President. It's just possible Trump might pull out... ill health perhaps.

    If you like spectacularly long odds trading/punts, the real value may well be on the other side of that bet. Not so much laying at such long odds, but betting on a replacement Trump VP.

    I've been thinking along the same lines as Mr Herdson/Domenech, although as I've quit betting, I haven't got the time/inclination to do the deep research needed to estimate tiny probabilities;

    --

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    8m
    Given how Trump got through administration members in 2017-21, I could well believe he might dump Vance. But there'd be a cost involved. Admitting the mistake plays to charges of poor judgement.

    Either way, he doesn't have long to think about it.

    --

    David Herdson was retweeting;

    Ben Domenech
    @bdomenech
    There is a non-zero possibility that Donald Trump could decide to move on from J.D. Vance.

    https://thespectator.com/newsletter/who-will-wish-they-chose-a-different-running-mate-thunderdome-08-08-2024/

    --

    There's a lot of money to be made in the difference between 0% & 1%.
    Which market can you bet on a replacement VP ?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I have seen a lot of the hard right / Farage / Musk "Two Tier" complaints. Why has x got a lengthy sentence when y didn't.

    Its all down to whether its a riot or not. Individual / small numbers doing something bad? Looked at individually. A riot? Book thrown at an infraction. As the miners found out unjustly at Orgreave.

    I don't think there is much debate about whether - unlike Orgreave - these are riots or not. The underlying complaint about the sentences feels primarily that the "patriots" are being sentenced at all.

    Why don't disturbances in Croydon count as a riot?
    See my previous post on the legal definition of riot. It doesn’t meet the threshold.
    Yep. And this is the same with all of the other "Two Tier" allegations. Riot / Not A Riot is a big pivot point. Similarly A riot vs pre-planned Riots plural.

    There is a level of moral degeneracy and hopeless stupidity that is depressing about some of the people now getting their collars felt. But that is nothing compared to the opprobrium that needs to be hurled at the people who fuel them - Yaxley-Lennon and his lot, Farage and his lot, Sunak and his lot.
    Rishi Sunak???

    It’s you that sounds unhinged. Rishi Sunak is irritatingly rich and was a rather poor Premier, but he’s not Adolf Hitler, FFS
    They're chanting STOP THE BOATS
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited August 8

    Trump is doing a news conference.

    More a speech to camera I assume, unless he really takes a bunch of questions afterwards. Needs airtime without having the energy this week to go to events.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Trump wants three debates.

    He is on the back foot and desperate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.

    Oi!

    Ah, ok I see!
    LOL. No offence meant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Tobogo, and just look at the time!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    There is a pattern in antisocial media bullshit.

    A tag line and the apparent evidence - "@TheScreamingEagles interview - Pineapple pizza awesome, Radiohead and Python awful. https://youtu.be/GarbageLink"

    It works because about 90% off people never click the link or try and find actual evidence.

    Python is awful - don't use whitespace to represent significancy...
    It is no more ridiculous than using lots of brackets (of varying types).

    Python has fantastic, clean syntax. It has incredible data science libraries. And these days, computers (and computing power) is cheap.

    Other than occasional bits of Javascript, when I have a need to do something webby, I wouldn't use anything else. There's simply no point, because quick to write, readable code, is worth a lot more than a few processor cycles.
    oh I just have a dislike of Python but I started off when Javascript was Livescript and Perl was the in thing.

    I personally prefer the latest version of Delphi (i.e. C# )..
    99% of my "coding" these days is data analysis, where Python + Pandas + Jupyter is absolutely superb, especially if you use Google's hosted Colab service. I'm playing around with massive datasets and running analyses in seconds that would historically have taken days. (And also required a team of people.)
    You use whatever has the best libraries for whatever it is you want to do. If that's Python, then great. And if it's JavaScript, for God's sake use TypeScript!
    The real problem with Python and JavaScript is the large numbers of self taught people.

    Who haven’t heard of code structure, testing pyramids or even code versioning tools.

    “No, Quant Boy, the Python file you emailed me isn’t going directly into production. Aside from the fact it doesn’t actually run, we need tests. And test data. And some QA. and running on all the non-prod environments first…. Also, where is the specification? ‘cause Compliance will quite interested in how we are pricing stuff.”
    While I largely agree with what you say, it is also great to have the freedom to implement stuff as you see fit without having to specify every last widget to the n-th degree. Obviously that's easier when working iteratively as a sole developer on small projects.

    Also, bad code implemented by self-taught developers is by no means restricted to Python and JavaScript. The codebase at my last workplace was a tangled mess of undocumented C++ dating back decades and presided over by an old-school self-taught coder with a pathological hatred of whitespace and line breaks. That was the last straw for me.
    Indeed

    Just that these days the self taught types are hacking in Python.

    There was this mad guy who was going to replace Excel with a spreadsheet backed by Python as the scripting language. Whatever happened to him?
    As someone who has been in software since the 90's and for many companies....assuming you pick right I think self taught tend to be better than those that have degrees, The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree
    "The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree"

    So they have failed at the most basic thing a degree is supposed to teach.
    IMV the best tend to be people who had degrees in subjects other than computers. So they were intelligent and knew the academic process, but did not think they knew everything about 'pooters.

    But the best of all were those who had no degrees and were utterly self-taught. I wonder if anyone here was in that category... ;)
    I’m basically a self taught lawyer. After university I went to law school in York to do the conversion course. Some of the teachers were shite and I was facing an equity and trusts exam within weeks I was 100% sure I’d fail.

    Anyway, there was no washing machine in my house so I went to a laundrette on the Bishopthorpe Road, with weeks of washing to do. Pretty disgusting. I spent all of one April 1997 Saturday in there reading a short trusts textbook I still have cover to cover. At about 3pm (the football was kicking off on Radio 5) it started to make sense, and by the time I left with my newly washed clothes I knew enough
    to pass. I’ve kept the book ever since. A year at law school when a day ar a laundrette would do.
    I've got a similar book: 'Structural Design of Steelwork to BS5950," which fulfilled a similar purpose for me. Although I bet yours was more interesting... :)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    There is a pattern in antisocial media bullshit.

    A tag line and the apparent evidence - "@TheScreamingEagles interview - Pineapple pizza awesome, Radiohead and Python awful. https://youtu.be/GarbageLink"

    It works because about 90% off people never click the link or try and find actual evidence.

    Python is awful - don't use whitespace to represent significancy...
    It is no more ridiculous than using lots of brackets (of varying types).

    Python has fantastic, clean syntax. It has incredible data science libraries. And these days, computers (and computing power) is cheap.

    Other than occasional bits of Javascript, when I have a need to do something webby, I wouldn't use anything else. There's simply no point, because quick to write, readable code, is worth a lot more than a few processor cycles.
    oh I just have a dislike of Python but I started off when Javascript was Livescript and Perl was the in thing.

    I personally prefer the latest version of Delphi (i.e. C# )..
    99% of my "coding" these days is data analysis, where Python + Pandas + Jupyter is absolutely superb, especially if you use Google's hosted Colab service. I'm playing around with massive datasets and running analyses in seconds that would historically have taken days. (And also required a team of people.)
    You use whatever has the best libraries for whatever it is you want to do. If that's Python, then great. And if it's JavaScript, for God's sake use TypeScript!
    The real problem with Python and JavaScript is the large numbers of self taught people.

    Who haven’t heard of code structure, testing pyramids or even code versioning tools.

    “No, Quant Boy, the Python file you emailed me isn’t going directly into production. Aside from the fact it doesn’t actually run, we need tests. And test data. And some QA. and running on all the non-prod environments first…. Also, where is the specification? ‘cause Compliance will quite interested in how we are pricing stuff.”
    While I largely agree with what you say, it is also great to have the freedom to implement stuff as you see fit without having to specify every last widget to the n-th degree. Obviously that's easier when working iteratively as a sole developer on small projects.

    Also, bad code implemented by self-taught developers is by no means restricted to Python and JavaScript. The codebase at my last workplace was a tangled mess of undocumented C++ dating back decades and presided over by an old-school self-taught coder with a pathological hatred of whitespace and line breaks. That was the last straw for me.
    Indeed

    Just that these days the self taught types are hacking in Python.

    There was this mad guy who was going to replace Excel with a spreadsheet backed by Python as the scripting language. Whatever happened to him?
    As someone who has been in software since the 90's and for many companies....assuming you pick right I think self taught tend to be better than those that have degrees, The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree
    "The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree"

    So they have failed at the most basic thing a degree is supposed to teach.
    IMV the best tend to be people who had degrees in subjects other than computers. So they were intelligent and knew the academic process, but did not think they knew everything about 'pooters.

    But the best of all were those who had no degrees and were utterly self-taught. I wonder if anyone here was in that category... ;)
    I’m basically a self taught lawyer. After university I went to law school in York to do the conversion course. Some of the teachers were shite and I was facing an equity and trusts exam within weeks I was 100% sure I’d fail.

    Anyway, there was no washing machine in my house so I went to a laundrette on the Bishopthorpe Road, with weeks of washing to do. Pretty disgusting. I spent all of one April 1997 Saturday in there reading a short trusts textbook I still have cover to cover. At about 3pm (the football was kicking off on Radio 5) it started to make sense, and by the time I left with my newly washed clothes I knew enough
    to pass. I’ve kept the book ever since. A year at law school when a day ar a laundrette would do.
    Gosh, you could have come across me in that Bishopthorpe Road launderette back in 1997. Rather than studying, though, I used to pop across the road and have a couple of pints of Tetley's in The Swan while waiting for my washing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    kyf_100 said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    If it was me, I'd declare it a national emergency and set aside huge areas that could be designated as plots for shipping container homes. Allow them on land that's not designated for permanent housing, thus getting over the 'land is too expensive' problem. They don't have foundations and are moveable, so let people put them down more or less anywhere within designated 'mobile' home areas. Build roads and water/electricity connection points.

    Not ideal, but better than what we have at the minute. Model it on the Australian 'quarantine villages' they managed to build en masse in a matter of a few months - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/mining-camp-designers-plan-covid-19-quarantine-hub-in-wa/100119364

    Like our prefabs (prefabricated housing) after the war, some of which were still in use into the 1970s.
    Later than that; in 1992 I moved into brand-new halls of residence in Stepney Green that were on the site of old prefabs, which had apparently been in use until a few years previously.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    edited August 8

    Phil said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Phil said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Kaye Hoey being extremely dishonest here.


    Kate Hoey
    @CatharineHoey
    Still no answer to why it will take to next year before Alex Rudakubana the alleged murderer of the 3 young girls in South
    Oct will stand trial ?

    Community notes can be very entertaining sometimes. A genuinely great idea.
    People dis Twitter* under Musk, but he has implemented two genuinely useful features:

    (1) Community notes
    (2) People I follow

    It means I see fewer Marjorie Taylor Greene posts. Which is good.

    * I refuse to call it "X"
    Community Notes predates Musk
    Sort of.

    There was a program that created Notes that predated Musk, but it wasn't very widespread nor was it open source - and it had a different name.

    The current version dates from Musk.
    The story I’ve seen elsewhere is that the current version was in development before Musk bought the company. He just happened to be in charge when it was finished up & pushed to production.

    Always remember the six stages of a project:

    1. Enthusiasm
    2. Disillusionment
    3. Panic
    4. Search for the Guilty
    5. Punishment of the Innocent
    6. Praise for those not involved
    There are some interesting horror stories out there about the Twitter code base and what was going on before the takeover. There was a reason that features were simply not appearing in production...
    Given Musk is apparently not a good coder, I wouldn't assume he's made the codebase any better... ;)
    You're not say that he does all the coding for his companies, are you?
    No. But I can guarantee that he will hire coders that match his image of a good coder... i.e. him. And the recruitment staff will be recruited on the same basis (I *still* see the old story of him personally interviewing all SpaceX staff...) (fx: hits head on wall.)

    SpaceX is actually different, as space and NASA demand certain boxes ticked. I bet he hates those boxes.
    Nope - long before SpaceX got a NASA contract, they were racing ahead of the rest of the Space Industry on the software side. Simply because they hired top engineers without legacy “we don’t do that here” to tell them *not do modern software development*.

    When they got a NASA contract, their system for tracking parts got all kinds of wow reviews. All they had done was implement a single logical system, using standard stuff (bar codes etc), rather than a pile of paperwork multiples by several incompatible legacy systems.

    The usage of FPGAs emulating PowerPC architecture wasn’t invented by SpaceX either. But they were one of the first to apply it to aerospace. Just as doing radiation tolerance at the macro, rather than micro level. Both were in place before NASA started audits etc. Both took a bit of convincing before they were cleared for Human Rated flight.

    The initial review of the Dragon control interface was a bit hilarious - instead of taking the “fake an aircraft dash”, the SpaceX engineers created a system of context driven, intuitive menus and screen controls, using industrial psychologists, former astronauts etc.

    The NASA reviewers initially had an Out Of Context problem - they couldn’t understand why it didn’t just have an aircraft dashboard. But once they dug into it, they really liked the concept. Which was to align the interface with the checklists and procedures, rather than have a translation layer from procedure to switches.

    On Tesla - a friend worked for Tata, in their outfit tearing down rival cars. He was a software engineer / electronics guy and his comment was that Tesla simply implemented modern software and hardware practise in an industry full of appalling IT. The mechanicals he thought were pretty poor, by comparison.

    One amusing story he told me - he was debugging a certain car. A whole pile of different computers talking to each other via a mess of cables. He eliminated a stream of errors that one computer was polluting the system with. Which caused another part of the system to crash. Turned out that the stream of errors was preventing a condition in one of the other computers. Luxury car, on the road and in production.

    There are times when I think you haven't drunk the Musk Kool-Aid, then you produce something like that.

    Musk is one man. He does not, Bill Gates-like, read every line of code. He does not do everything inside the organisation. SpaceX is different, because it took people from other space companies, who knew how to do things in space. Musk knew how to code a game. And code some of Paypal's predecessor. Badly.

    I'd strongly argue that Tesla's inability to drive from one side of the US to another - as promised by Musk in 2016 - is a sign that they're not as strong in software as you would like to think.

    I've got a counter-example for your amusing story. A German car company developed a concept car that had no direct mechanical link between steering wheel and steering, as required by law. everything in the car used the same control/data bus. It worked really well.

    Until someone changed the CD in the CD multi-changer, and so much data was sent over the bus that the steering locked up for a few seconds.

    The result: a separate bus for 'critical' functions like steering and braking. And another for non-critical functions.

    The *mess of cables* you decry might actually have sensible purposes. And this is something that *anybody* reverse-engineering anything needs to consider: if you think the people who designed the thing you're reverse-engineering was stupid; perhaps you don't understand it fully, and it is *you* who is being stupid.
    What I was saying is that Tesla and SpaceX seem to use modern IT. There is no otherworldly stuff. Just the things you'd get from hiring top end people and them having a clean slate to work on.

    The "bus" story you mention sounds like a classic of someone using technology without understanding limitations and, most importantly, best practice.

    (Snip)
    SpaceX; yes. I see zero evidence that Tesla is doing that. Closing doors/frunks that can cut carrots being an example... ;)

    The 'bus' story might also be a case of people having to get a prototype concept car out of the door quickly. I've done prototypes where (ahem) things are not quite as I would want the,..
    Using a bus that doesn't implement time criticality in the steering for a car would make it un roadworthy, IMHO.

    IIRC the time criticality thing was found and fixed in a NASA test aircraft - the pilot was making lots of stick movements to fly, exactly, the profile. He noticed that after a while, the plan started showing signs of PIO and seemed to be getting slow to react. Turned out that, with the electronics of the time, he was piling up commands on system.
    How many concept cars sniff public roads?

    This sort of issue is one of the reasons concept cars exist.

    Incidentally, I know someone who used to work for Lucas. She saw the 'new' Discovery S2 in the mid-80s when it was under development. Apparently to access the computer debug ports in the prototypes, you pulled out one of the heater/vent ports in the dashboard, which would then cause the windscreen wipers to go...
    Once you types "Lucas" in the context of electronics, everything else is pointless. Because everyone is laughing too hard to read the rest.
    It's why I mentioned 'Lucas' ... ;)

    edit: and my post should have said mid-90s, not mid-80s. She's not that old...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited August 8

    kyf_100 said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    If it was me, I'd declare it a national emergency and set aside huge areas that could be designated as plots for shipping container homes. Allow them on land that's not designated for permanent housing, thus getting over the 'land is too expensive' problem. They don't have foundations and are moveable, so let people put them down more or less anywhere within designated 'mobile' home areas. Build roads and water/electricity connection points.

    Not ideal, but better than what we have at the minute. Model it on the Australian 'quarantine villages' they managed to build en masse in a matter of a few months - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/mining-camp-designers-plan-covid-19-quarantine-hub-in-wa/100119364

    Like our prefabs (prefabricated housing) after the war, some of which were still in use into the 1970s.
    There are still some of those around - especially in places such as Peacehaven, usually encapsulated or updated in some form.

    Close to me, there are still a couple of bungalows built around railway carriages. The owners need to watch it or a they could get listed.

    Here's one attached to an end terrace that was sold in 2014 - for £30k. I'm not what happened as the advertised price was double. If I'd known I'd have had it on the first day as it is on a 350sqm plot, which the new owner built a 3 bed modern detached on. It was a steal.

    I can't post details as Zoopla seem to have lost their public archive.

    My photo of the day.



  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    This is grim. And I fear it is the future


    “Pray for S, one of the asylum seekers I worked with in Gateshead, beaten up by 2 men with iron bars last night.”

    https://x.com/meggilley1/status/1821455725656240585?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The riots have stopped but a lower level violence will now replace it. Smaller acts. Local “events”

    Bleak as bleh. I may actually move to lovely Pristina

    Another example of this sort of thing.

    "Suspended Labour councillor arrested over video ‘urging people to cut throats’
    Ricky Jones arrested after video emerged in which he appeared to call for violence against ‘Nazi fascists’"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/08/labour-suspends-councillor-video-far-right-protesters
    Stupid man. Old enough to know a lot better

    His problem is that he is surely going to get a significant jail term, because he called for actual murder and people are getting 30 months for simply “shouting at policemen”
    I've just - for reasons - taken a quick look at the X account of Ashlea Simon, the leader of Britain First. She doesn't quite have your prose skills but the sentiments and agenda are almost identical. Don't know what you have to say about that.
    I told you, I did the latest political compass test, and I came out EXACTLY on the spot supposedly occupied by the classic Conservatives. It’s just that the actual Conservatives have moved to the left of Blair
    I'm sure you did do that test and I'm sure that was the result. I did it too and I kept at it until I came out where I wanted. They're great, those tests.

    Still, there it is. A statistically significant overlap between your output and that of the far right.

    Eg do you remember when you said Kamala Harris was "dumb as a rock"?
    I did the test once. You’re beginning to irritate me

    Yes I did say that about Harris and I now think I misjudged her. I was relying on second hand reports from biased Americans, never a good thing. Always look with your own eyes and make a true objective assessment

    The skilful way she’s handled this extraordinarily difficult transition - from Biden to her - tells me she has political cunning and brains. I think she will probably win (unless Trump drops out: not impossible). That will please me because Trump is a crazy fucker

    If Trump drops out and a sane anti-woke Republican becomes the GOP candidate I will enthusiastically back that person over Harris

    There. Sorted. Now stop being weird
    Yes, "dumb as a rock" was an exact MAGA phrase all over Hard Right Twitter. Not your finest hour, regurgitating that.

    But ok, that's a good post there and I can't ask for more. Whether you truly, on Nov 6th, will be wanting to wake up to "Harris wins, Trump loses" is between you and your god. We're all entitled to our secret chamber and in any case what we want or don't want can be a complex layered thing.

    I would like to see more enthusiasm from you as Trump implodes. You don't seem to be enjoying it very much, which I think is a shame.
    If I’m not enjoying it, that’s easily explained. I despise the Woke Democrats and I think Wokeness is a massive danger to the West (tho there are signs in the USA that it may be receding; and Harris herself is not that Woke)

    However I see Trump as an even greater threat to our security and prosperity. So I am forced to choose the lesser of two serious evils (in my eyes). This is not fertile grounds for “enthusiasm”

    What would enthuse me is a firmly anti-Woke but sane Republican who won’t abandon NATO and won’t crash the world economy with tariffs
    Essentially the same stupid, cowardly calculation you made when you voted for Keir Starmer.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Due to significant changes on this platform in recent months, X is no longer consistent with our Trust values. Therefore RNOH is closing its account. Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn. Thanks to everyone who has followed & supported us for the last 13 years.

    https://x.com/RNOHnhs/status/1821456025553076606

    I wonder if many other public bodies will follow suit

    Ah, so should the public sector be trying to work with the largest audience possible, or be partaking in performative wokery choosing one platform over another?
    you used public sector and work in the same sentence....a discongruity
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Khan - Tories Online Safety Act not fit for purpose https://www.theguardian.com/media/article/2024/aug/08/online-safety-act-not-fit-for-purpose-far-right-riots-sadiq-khan

    Isn't the truth that too many Tories have provided succour to the rioters?

    Its Tory slogans being chanted by the rioters. Its Tory foreign shaming being hurled about by morons as justification.

    The existing online safety bill is already an extremely concerning attack on free speech. Seeking to make it still more draconian before it has come into force is loathsome.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    ...

    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Due to significant changes on this platform in recent months, X is no longer consistent with our Trust values. Therefore RNOH is closing its account. Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram & LinkedIn. Thanks to everyone who has followed & supported us for the last 13 years.

    https://x.com/RNOHnhs/status/1821456025553076606

    I wonder if many other public bodies will follow suit

    Ah, so should the public sector be trying to work with the largest audience possible, or be partaking in performative wokery choosing one platform over another?
    Encouraging Zuckerberg is not great either.

    Why not go back to just having a public website? I hear forums still work if you want to encourage public discussion.
    Oh indeed.

    One of my major projects at work at the moment, is trying to get everyone using Teams instead of a whole bunch of ad-hoc WhatsApp groups for discussions that have a financial impact on the company.
    I my last place of employ they really tried hard to get everyone to use Teams. You knew though that you were in conversations with the senior team when you got a whatsapp message though :)

    I made a point of not having WhatsApp on my own phone (my phone, not their phone) from the day I was hired.

    One very senior manager didn’t understand that iMessage was a data message rather than an SMS, and wondered why I didn’t have WA on my phone.

    I used to deliver a talk to schools and parents about IT security, called “Why I’m not on Facebook”.
    Excellent.

    I used to have that ranty all the time but have just about given up. I just tell people that if you insist on using Facebook then I won't see any of it.

    My employer encourages everyone to post crap on Workplace and LinkedIn but I don't feel I'm missing out on anything by ignoring them...
    I had an employer where hr sent round an email to tell us all to post on glassdoor about the company because they were finding it hard to recruit....we did but mainly to highlight the posts about how crap it was working there. For example first month I worked there I got half a months pay which sort of made me short...hr's response we will sort it out next month...next month arrives I again get a half months pay, hr's response well its hardly a pressing issue we will sort it next month......meanwhile I am trying to pay rent, travel and make ends meet
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    There is a pattern in antisocial media bullshit.

    A tag line and the apparent evidence - "@TheScreamingEagles interview - Pineapple pizza awesome, Radiohead and Python awful. https://youtu.be/GarbageLink"

    It works because about 90% off people never click the link or try and find actual evidence.

    Python is awful - don't use whitespace to represent significancy...
    It is no more ridiculous than using lots of brackets (of varying types).

    Python has fantastic, clean syntax. It has incredible data science libraries. And these days, computers (and computing power) is cheap.

    Other than occasional bits of Javascript, when I have a need to do something webby, I wouldn't use anything else. There's simply no point, because quick to write, readable code, is worth a lot more than a few processor cycles.
    oh I just have a dislike of Python but I started off when Javascript was Livescript and Perl was the in thing.

    I personally prefer the latest version of Delphi (i.e. C# )..
    99% of my "coding" these days is data analysis, where Python + Pandas + Jupyter is absolutely superb, especially if you use Google's hosted Colab service. I'm playing around with massive datasets and running analyses in seconds that would historically have taken days. (And also required a team of people.)
    You use whatever has the best libraries for whatever it is you want to do. If that's Python, then great. And if it's JavaScript, for God's sake use TypeScript!
    The real problem with Python and JavaScript is the large numbers of self taught people.

    Who haven’t heard of code structure, testing pyramids or even code versioning tools.

    “No, Quant Boy, the Python file you emailed me isn’t going directly into production. Aside from the fact it doesn’t actually run, we need tests. And test data. And some QA. and running on all the non-prod environments first…. Also, where is the specification? ‘cause Compliance will quite interested in how we are pricing stuff.”
    While I largely agree with what you say, it is also great to have the freedom to implement stuff as you see fit without having to specify every last widget to the n-th degree. Obviously that's easier when working iteratively as a sole developer on small projects.

    Also, bad code implemented by self-taught developers is by no means restricted to Python and JavaScript. The codebase at my last workplace was a tangled mess of undocumented C++ dating back decades and presided over by an old-school self-taught coder with a pathological hatred of whitespace and line breaks. That was the last straw for me.
    Indeed

    Just that these days the self taught types are hacking in Python.

    There was this mad guy who was going to replace Excel with a spreadsheet backed by Python as the scripting language. Whatever happened to him?
    As someone who has been in software since the 90's and for many companies....assuming you pick right I think self taught tend to be better than those that have degrees, The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree
    "The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree"

    So they have failed at the most basic thing a degree is supposed to teach.
    I have found to a certain extent that people with degrees tend to not like being corrected in what they are doing by people who don't have degrees....certainly not all but a significant enough slice of them
  • It's difficult for
    kyf_100 said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    If it was me, I'd declare it a national emergency and set aside huge areas that could be designated as plots for shipping container homes. Allow them on land that's not designated for permanent housing, thus getting over the 'land is too expensive' problem. They don't have foundations and are moveable, so let people put them down more or less anywhere within designated 'mobile' home areas. Build roads and water/electricity connection points.

    Not ideal, but better than what we have at the minute. Model it on the Australian 'quarantine villages' they managed to build en masse in a matter of a few months - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/mining-camp-designers-plan-covid-19-quarantine-hub-in-wa/100119364

    Shipping containers are okish for a bespoke Grand Designs type house, but in my opinion they're too small individually (narrow so they can fit on a lorry) and if you cut holes in them, they need reinforcing and welding. They're cold in winter, too warm in summer so need complex insulation and are prone to condensation. I like them, but you're probably better off placing a massive order with mobile home manufacturers if you want to get whole estates up and running in a tight time frame.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417
    edited August 8

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    There is a pattern in antisocial media bullshit.

    A tag line and the apparent evidence - "@TheScreamingEagles interview - Pineapple pizza awesome, Radiohead and Python awful. https://youtu.be/GarbageLink"

    It works because about 90% off people never click the link or try and find actual evidence.

    Python is awful - don't use whitespace to represent significancy...
    It is no more ridiculous than using lots of brackets (of varying types).

    Python has fantastic, clean syntax. It has incredible data science libraries. And these days, computers (and computing power) is cheap.

    Other than occasional bits of Javascript, when I have a need to do something webby, I wouldn't use anything else. There's simply no point, because quick to write, readable code, is worth a lot more than a few processor cycles.
    oh I just have a dislike of Python but I started off when Javascript was Livescript and Perl was the in thing.

    I personally prefer the latest version of Delphi (i.e. C# )..
    99% of my "coding" these days is data analysis, where Python + Pandas + Jupyter is absolutely superb, especially if you use Google's hosted Colab service. I'm playing around with massive datasets and running analyses in seconds that would historically have taken days. (And also required a team of people.)
    You use whatever has the best libraries for whatever it is you want to do. If that's Python, then great. And if it's JavaScript, for God's sake use TypeScript!
    The real problem with Python and JavaScript is the large numbers of self taught people.

    Who haven’t heard of code structure, testing pyramids or even code versioning tools.

    “No, Quant Boy, the Python file you emailed me isn’t going directly into production. Aside from the fact it doesn’t actually run, we need tests. And test data. And some QA. and running on all the non-prod environments first…. Also, where is the specification? ‘cause Compliance will quite interested in how we are pricing stuff.”
    While I largely agree with what you say, it is also great to have the freedom to implement stuff as you see fit without having to specify every last widget to the n-th degree. Obviously that's easier when working iteratively as a sole developer on small projects.

    Also, bad code implemented by self-taught developers is by no means restricted to Python and JavaScript. The codebase at my last workplace was a tangled mess of undocumented C++ dating back decades and presided over by an old-school self-taught coder with a pathological hatred of whitespace and line breaks. That was the last straw for me.
    Indeed

    Just that these days the self taught types are hacking in Python.

    There was this mad guy who was going to replace Excel with a spreadsheet backed by Python as the scripting language. Whatever happened to him?
    As someone who has been in software since the 90's and for many companies....assuming you pick right I think self taught tend to be better than those that have degrees, The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree
    "The latter tend to be you can't teach me anything I have a degree"

    So they have failed at the most basic thing a degree is supposed to teach.
    IMV the best tend to be people who had degrees in subjects other than computers. So they were intelligent and knew the academic process, but did not think they knew everything about 'pooters.

    But the best of all were those who had no degrees and were utterly self-taught. I wonder if anyone here was in that category... ;)
    I’m basically a self taught lawyer. After university I went to law school in York to do the conversion course. Some of the teachers were shite and I was facing an equity and trusts exam within weeks I was 100% sure I’d fail.

    Anyway, there was no washing machine in my house so I went to a laundrette on the Bishopthorpe Road, with weeks of washing to do. Pretty disgusting. I spent all of one April 1997 Saturday in there reading a short trusts textbook I still have cover to cover. At about 3pm (the football was kicking off on Radio 5) it started to make sense, and by the time I left with my newly washed clothes I knew enough
    to pass. I’ve kept the book ever since. A year at law school when a day ar a laundrette would do.
    I'm trying to remember the details, but there were some states in the US, where you could just rock up and take the bar exam.

    They have been reduced (maybe eliminated by now) by very heavy lobbying by the universities.
    You could do that with a medical degree at (certainly) St Andrews in the 1840’s/50’s. My gt gt gt (if I can count right) grandfather did it. Went on to have a very successful and well-paid medical career in London.

    Started as a surgeon-apothecary in West Wales.
This discussion has been closed.