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Austerity is popular – politicalbetting.com

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Or hit it where it hurts. Make Twitter financially liable for publishing lies and trolling.
    Trolling. They’d have to define it first.

    They'd also have to define a "lie". Then square it with "free speech". I don't think you can check billions of tweets each day for factual accuracy, especially for political discussions where the "fact" is debated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    Foss said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
    VPN providers thank you for your contribution.
    Alas, my 'This Is Good For Tor' tee-shirt is downstairs. But net users won't care enough about Twitter to use a VPN and, more importantly, if they're going to war with a a big social media company, then they'll probably be looking at the VPNs as well.
    Even in China, the Great Firewall (manned by a legion of staff) can't block sites the government doesn't want.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 967
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump. Even if Harris-Walz win Mi, Wi and MN, if Trump wins GA, Az and Nevada and PA he wins 287-251, almost exactly the same EC margin as the 286-251 margin Bush beat Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.270towin.com/
    Trump isn't winning back any suburban voters. If anything he will go backwards
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
    Good luck enforcing that in US jurisdiction.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    That you're even comparing the two says much about your comprehension of US politics.

    And Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type to spend 24 years serving in the National Guard.
    Wolz is very much middle of the road Democrat.
    No, he is one of the most leftwing governors in the US and was endorsed by Bernie Sanders to be VP nominee
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4809450-bernie-sanders-kamala-harris-tim-walz-veepstakes-2024-election/
  • Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    Ex military too, small town childhood in Nebraska, a proper salt of the earth rural Democrat, in the old style.

    I hadn't heard of him until a few weeks ago, but a good pick.

    Surprised that he is 60. He looks older.
    Well he is an ex high school teacher...

    From an internal party POV, it's quite a smart pick too.
    He's probably too old to run for Pres. after Harris (assuming she wins), so it keeps all the ambitious next generation fully engaged. Picking Shapiro would have been something of a death knell for his contemporaries' ambitions.

    As it is, they will all want to be seen as an important part of the winning coalition.
    I know the done thing is to praise your preferred candidate's pick.

    This doesn't seem a bad pick. He ticks the "first do no harm" box (assuming something awful doesn't emerge but that's vetting for you). He has some attributes that sell - reassuring, mid-western, executive experience, unlikely to have policy clashes with Harris, not too threatening to ambitious young Democrats.

    But Harris is on the fringes of needing to do more than "no harm". She's started well but probably has slightly more need to change the dynamics. She might live to regret a pretty conventional pick.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,685
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    I use a VPN for work and I do for my home use.

    VPNs are ubiquitous particularly after WFH became a thing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,615
    nico679 said:

    Shapiro could be viewed as a liberal elite and too pro Israel . Kelly a bit wooden . No VP candidate ticks every box .

    Walz isn’t going to terrify anyone and his service in the National Guard isn’t going to do him any harm . As opposed to Vance whose comments about women and those without children are going to get much more air time in the run up to the election .

    Playing safe is probably the best option for Harris, and Walz may fit the bill.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Foss said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
    VPN providers thank you for your contribution.
    Alas, my 'This Is Good For Tor' tee-shirt is downstairs. But net users won't care enough about Twitter to use a VPN and, more importantly, if they're going to war with a a big social media company, then they'll probably be looking at the VPNs as well.
    Banning VPNs would be *courageous*. Not least because of how much businesses depend on them for data security.

    But really, banning VPNs is tantamount to saying "if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to be afraid of". Which has been proved false, time and time again.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,436
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
    He is anyway. People are regularly prosecuted for what they post online. People have been arrested for what they have posted online about the riots and will probably end up paying the Price.

    If he breaks the law, which there is no suggestion he has, then he will account for,it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    The government could proscribe X/Twitter under the 2000 Terrorism Act, like for example Hamas. It would prevent any UK individual or organisation having any dealings with it. It would be an extreme step obviously.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    edited August 6

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.

    [EDIT: "Satellites can be shot down" lime removed for simplicity]
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    So you want to ban VPN? Good luck with that.

    Talk to some Chinese people about how they get round the Great Firewall.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,240
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Michael Moore (a Michigander), Josh Shapiro has chosen badly on Gaza. He also points out in this interview that Michigan is vulnerable given the number of pro-Palestinian voters

    As you know I am lairy of battleground state theory: you have to consider the effect on all the states, not just one. Everybody is focussing on Shapiro to get Pennsylvania and missing that he may lose Michigan

    https://youtu.be/GnZ7DaYfeyo?si=ermGBlfMCx90deaQ&t=303

    Yes, that is a very good point re Shapiro and it is not only Michigan where that may cause problems - for example, in Wisconsin, his viewpoints are unlikely to go down well in a university town like Madison and that could also prove fatal to the Democrat chances in that state.

    At this stage, and given the reaction to her candidacy, Harris is likely to be thinking "what pick does not risk significant blowback?" On that measure, Kelly may be the 'safest' of the three.

    Alternatively, she therefore may decide that it is best to go with the one who can amplify her message. If that is the case, Walz may be the pick if she decides that firing up the base is the way to go.

    However, in either of the two above scenarios, Shapiro would seem the riskiest option
    I agree that Shapiro carries significant risk, and I suspect that the campaign's motto will be: First, Do No Harm.

    The lowest risk candidate has to be Mark Kelly: popular, moderate, and a great backstory.

    But I must admit, I would roll the dice if I were Kamala, and would pick Buttigieg, because he would absolutely wipe the floor with Vance.
    But is wiping the floor with Vance such a big deal? Vance looks like he will wipe the floor with himself unaided tbh.
    In retrospect, and probably prospect, JDV was a terrible VP pick. He amplifies DJT's negatives of weird shithousery and provides zero positives. I suspect he was selected because he's a reformed Trump critic and DJT's monstrous vanity could not resist parading that supplication.
    JDV was meant to preserve the MAGA succession in 2028 as Trump cannot run for a 3rd term even if he wins.

    On the other hand if Trump and Vance lose then that is a total defeat of MAGA and so a more traditional conservative like DeSantis or a moderate like Haley looks favourite for the GOP nomination next time
    DeSantis is often depicted as a mini-Trump; he's not that much of a traditional conservative. Even Haley only really counts as a "moderate" relative to the current GOP.
    DeSantis is not MAGA though. Haley is the most centrist candidate who ran in the primaries this year in US terms, GOP or Democrat, she is more moderate than Biden and Harris as well
    Balderdash. I'll let this Vox article explain it for me: https://www.vox.com/policy/24042053/nikki-haley-moderate-conservative-democracy
    She isn't a moderate for leftwingers iike you but then no centrist conservative ever would be, certainly not in the US.

    However Haley led Biden by 8% in February while Trump had just a 2% lead and DeSantis a 3% lead and Haley had a 16% lower unfavourable rating than Harris did
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-haley-fares-best-against-biden-2024-presidential-election-poll/
    https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-popularity-compared-nikki-haley-1866503
    Haley's not really a centrist, she's quite a way to the right of Trump on foreign policy I think.
    I suppose if you think supporting Zelensky is 'way to the right'
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,737
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump
    Independents going for Trump just doesn't square with the polls.

    I accept such theoretically non-aligned voters aren't always as non-aligned as they say. But you're making an assertion without much real evidence.
    I would say the opposite. Walz is aimed directly at the white suburban and rural voter. Couldn't make a more heartland American in central casting.
    There's only one VP candidate who wears guyliner.
    Does Vance?

    I thought his dark haunted eyes were just part of the deal with the devil for his soul.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,240
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. Satellites can be shot down. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.
    I don't think we should aspire actually going to war over some juvenile shitposts, even if they are by a billionaire with a large following.
    Better to make life awkward for him, if retaliation is actually necessary.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited August 6
    To all fans of the encyclopedia known as HYUFD - of whom I am one.-his predictions based on US polls is not to be confused those of UK polls. Last time he attached himself to a team of wayward scoundrels (Trafalgar?) and the resulting predictions were manic
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,008
    @JoshHalliday

    Liam Grey, 20, is the second of six alleged Rotherham rioters up at Sheffield magistrates’ court today. Said to have been “milling around” to “have a nosy” but denied being part of violent disorder. Alleged to have pushed a police officer after being rammed with a riot shield.

    Grey’s solicitor: “he says he just wished he hadn’t gone”

    District judge tells Grey he has no option but to remand him in custody given the context of ongoing riots and risk he would take part.

    Grey, who has no previous cautions or convictions, looks close to tears as he is taken back to the court cells after being remanded in custody.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Taz said:
    Well, that's reassuring... :(
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. Satellites can be shot down. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.
    Yes. However it doesn't mean the nation-state can do *anything*

    You can, under the ITU, request that satellites do not support connection in a given country. Which is why Starlink has a license for each *territory* it works in.

    There is an ongoing thing with the Falkland Islands - the locals want Starlink, but the government has been revenue farming via an older, much less capable provider. Until the Falkland Island government says OK, Starlink is not allowed there.

    Shooting at satellites, means that you are shooting at things under the care of another country. Even Russia and North Korea aren't up for that kind of stupid.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,685
    Scott_xP said:

    @JoshHalliday

    Liam Grey, 20, is the second of six alleged Rotherham rioters up at Sheffield magistrates’ court today. Said to have been “milling around” to “have a nosy” but denied being part of violent disorder. Alleged to have pushed a police officer after being rammed with a riot shield.

    Grey’s solicitor: “he says he just wished he hadn’t gone”

    District judge tells Grey he has no option but to remand him in custody given the context of ongoing riots and risk he would take part.

    Grey, who has no previous cautions or convictions, looks close to tears as he is taken back to the court cells after being remanded in custody.

    I might just go to Sheffield Magistrates Court and laugh at these people.

    I think I’ve still got my PB press pass.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,008
    edited August 6

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
    Good luck enforcing that in US jurisdiction.
    Musk isn’t helping arguments that platforms are merely platforms not publishers. He is editorialising. I assume that Zuckerberg (and Clegg) are wishing he’d shut up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,615
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
    Yet the guardian has dedicated a front page article to “debunking” it. That doesn’t happen unless it unnerves the target


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread
    Indeed, you can see how this hurts them, especially on the left. Fire and brimstone against white people rioting, taking the knee when black people riot. Nobody likes rioters and it was a mistake for Starmer to take the knee and support the rioters.
    I don't believe for one nanosecond that Sir Keir 'took the knee' because he supported rioters. Nevertheless, it was foolish for a senior politician to partake in such a gimmick, as it's given his ruthless enemies a stick to beat him with. Rees-Mogg was at it recently, asserting that it proved Sir Keir is fine and dandy with violence, destruction and havoc just so long as the perpetrators aren't white English chaps. The onslaught coming Sir Keir's way from the British Right will be unprecedently fierce and relentless. How will he cope?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
    Yet the guardian has dedicated a front page article to “debunking” it. That doesn’t happen unless it unnerves the target


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread
    I see it’s been upgraded from mere misinformation to myth.
    What actually annoys them is the

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
    Good luck enforcing that in US jurisdiction.
    Musk isn’t helping arguments that platforms are merely platforms not publishers. He is editorialising. I assume that Zuckerberg (and Clegg) are wishing he’d shut up.
    He is Trumplike in his need to be the centre of attention. The others indulge in it but can clearly switch off when they want to focus more on using mega wealth to influence things less openly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,712
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    Clipless pedals are adjustable for tightness, so at one end they are completely un-get-outable-of, and at the other end very easy that you can get close to slipping out.

    I looked into this a decade ago when I was thinking about it; I was especially concerned about not being able to get out of the bike if I went into a canal as many paths round here are by canals. Asking, I discovered that a *lot* of cyclists have been into canals in error, and that canals in general are only 3 ft or so deep so not a huge risk of drowning.

    This is why I said start loose and adjust tight; the first time I tried I had to undo my shoelaces and walk 50m back home in my socks with the shoe still on the bike.

    My impression is that you need to move your ankle perhaps 20-30 degrees; the best description I have is "shrug your ankle".

    My suggestion would be to go to a Halfords or similar that you know has shoes and pedals at a quiet-ish time, and ask them to help you. The use one of their bikes with the pedals, start loose clipping and unclipping when the chap is holding you up, and then take a ride round the car park on several settings.

    Were I to do that, I would use my local Halfords or somewhere like SJS Cycles in Chesterfield. I'd have checked out the pedals and shoes were decent but not high end, so would be happy to buy them.

    It could be done via an LBS, especially a big one, but they may not have the large car park.

    Other alternatives are that your local cycling Facebook group is likely to have local get-cycling type people as key members, or talk to someone running a Dr Bike session who could arrange to bring thing to try, or ask a friend.

    I'd put aside about half an afternoon to do it.
    Thanks, that's a brilliant answer. I'm probably more concerned than I should be; then again, I've purchased an f-load of trainers in the past, only to find I'm in agony after fifty miles or so. When I get a pair that 'work' for me now, I but them in bulk. :)
    Looking, I see that Sport Pursuit have a lot of SPD shoes for 50-70% off in the £40-80 range (after reduction).
    https://www.sportpursuit.com/search?s=spd shoes&p=1

    My comment would be that that won't especially help for a first pair, but that in general such shoes will have stiff soles so get some personal recommendations of lowish-end-but-comfortable shoes. All elements of the cycling market are driven by 'sexy' tech and deep discounting; it's just about waiting and pretty much everything will be half-price somewhere at some point.

    Unless anyone can say to the other, SPD clip-in cycle shoes are more comfortable to eg walk in, but they will not be *as* comfortable as normal trainer to spend a day in. So are fine if you stop for lunch, but think twice before touring the Louvre wearing them.

    ATB
    I have heard of people doing an Ironman / long distance triathlon and leaving transition for the run, having forgotten to change out of their clipless shoes...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,460

    Scott_xP said:

    @JoshHalliday

    Liam Grey, 20, is the second of six alleged Rotherham rioters up at Sheffield magistrates’ court today. Said to have been “milling around” to “have a nosy” but denied being part of violent disorder. Alleged to have pushed a police officer after being rammed with a riot shield.

    Grey’s solicitor: “he says he just wished he hadn’t gone”

    District judge tells Grey he has no option but to remand him in custody given the context of ongoing riots and risk he would take part.

    Grey, who has no previous cautions or convictions, looks close to tears as he is taken back to the court cells after being remanded in custody.

    I might just go to Sheffield Magistrates Court and laugh at these people.

    I think I’ve still got my PB press pass.
    You don’t need a press pass to get into a courtroom. They are public

    I used to go to the Old Bailey. Once as the accused then several times after out of sheer interest

    It always amazed me that you can just walk in and see these intense human dramas playing out right in front of you
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    It's not really that damning, though, is it?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    Andy_JS said:
    He's just a dangerous child.

    Truly we live in the era of fools.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    edited August 6
    Andy_JS said:
    Wow. If the people replying to that are a fair representation of Musk's admirers...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    That you're even comparing the two says much about your comprehension of US politics.

    And Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type to spend 24 years serving in the National Guard.
    Wolz is very much middle of the road Democrat.
    No, he is one of the most leftwing governors in the US and was endorsed by Bernie Sanders to be VP nominee
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4809450-bernie-sanders-kamala-harris-tim-walz-veepstakes-2024-election/
    Bernie Sanders also endorsed Joe Biden in 2020 to become President, I am guessing Biden lost after getting the endorsement of Sanders.
    After Biden had got the nomination, Sanders was Biden's main opponent in the primaries!

    A Harris-Walz ticket basically looks like a Dukakis-Mondale ticket in all but name
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    So you want to ban VPN? Good luck with that.

    Talk to some Chinese people about how they get round the Great Firewall.
    Not ban no but the police can still crack those who use it illegally
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited August 6

    Andy_JS said:
    He's just a dangerous child.

    Truly we live in the era of fools.
    ...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. Satellites can be shot down. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.
    Yes. However it doesn't mean the nation-state can do *anything*

    You can, under the ITU, request that satellites do not support connection in a given country. Which is why Starlink has a license for each *territory* it works in.

    There is an ongoing thing with the Falkland Islands - the locals want Starlink, but the government has been revenue farming via an older, much less capable provider. Until the Falkland Island government says OK, Starlink is not allowed there.

    Shooting at satellites, means that you are shooting at things under the care of another country. Even Russia and North Korea aren't up for that kind of stupid.
    If they are penetrating into this country then the UK Government should be the final arbiter. Who has more authority in the UK: governments or Musk/Bezos/Branson et al? Who should?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Not fit for purpose.

    The skip on wheels car obvs.

    https://x.com/FlugschuleE/status/1820770149844009410
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,399
    edited August 6
    ...
    Andy_JS said:
    That looks to me like Priti wins the Tory Party leadership and she wins the 2029 GE.

    Thank you Elon.

    Bet accordingly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Nunu5 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump. Even if Harris-Walz win Mi, Wi and MN, if Trump wins GA, Az and Nevada and PA he wins 287-251, almost exactly the same EC margin as the 286-251 margin Bush beat Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.270towin.com/
    Trump isn't winning back any suburban voters. If anything he will go backwards
    Trump will win even more white college educated suburban voters than he did against Hillary with this Dem ticket.

    To win therefore the Dems need Harris to get out the black vote and Walz to hold the minority of white working class voters Biden won
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    I see there are reports in Italy that Adrian Newey is off to Aston Martin.

    I will point out I've been saying that since the day he announced he was leaving Red Bull because he was never going to Italy..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    a
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. Satellites can be shot down. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.
    Yes. However it doesn't mean the nation-state can do *anything*

    You can, under the ITU, request that satellites do not support connection in a given country. Which is why Starlink has a license for each *territory* it works in.

    There is an ongoing thing with the Falkland Islands - the locals want Starlink, but the government has been revenue farming via an older, much less capable provider. Until the Falkland Island government says OK, Starlink is not allowed there.

    Shooting at satellites, means that you are shooting at things under the care of another country. Even Russia and North Korea aren't up for that kind of stupid.
    If they are penetrating into this country then the UK Government should be the final arbiter. Who has more authority in the UK: governments or Musk/Bezos/Branson et al? Who should?
    Oh, they can *try*

    No-one doubts that.

    But look at the fun regarding the ISIS propaganda websites. Do you think that no-one has tried to be the final arbiter on them? And they are a much, much easier target.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,685

    NEW THREAD

  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    @TheScreamingEagles the new thread gives you a "Failed to find discussion for commenting." error message
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
    And Musk, too
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Harris/Walz works well. It has notes of Vienna and an elegant pre war Europe

    Harris /Shapiro is a little too Board of Deputies
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,394
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    So you want to ban VPN? Good luck with that.

    Talk to some Chinese people about how they get round the Great Firewall.
    Not ban no but the police can still crack those who use it illegally
    I connect to a VPN hosted in India, say.

    The UK government/Police has no way of knowing where it goes from there. Unless the Indian government makes the Indian VPN company tell them. And multi-hop VPNs are a thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    a

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
    Everything on the internet enters the country via known physical nodes or by satellite. Those nodes can be shut down or software installed to prevent entry. Satellites can be shot down. The UK has a case for saying that it has ultimate authority for satellites beaming into the UK and that those that do so without permission can be punished by the UK. The nation-state has to mean something.
    Yes. However it doesn't mean the nation-state can do *anything*

    You can, under the ITU, request that satellites do not support connection in a given country. Which is why Starlink has a license for each *territory* it works in.

    There is an ongoing thing with the Falkland Islands - the locals want Starlink, but the government has been revenue farming via an older, much less capable provider. Until the Falkland Island government says OK, Starlink is not allowed there.

    Shooting at satellites, means that you are shooting at things under the care of another country. Even Russia and North Korea aren't up for that kind of stupid.
    If they are penetrating into this country then the UK Government should be the final arbiter. Who has more authority in the UK: governments or Musk/Bezos/Branson et al? Who should?
    Oh, they can *try*

    No-one doubts that.

    But look at the fun regarding the ISIS propaganda websites. Do you think that no-one has tried to be the final arbiter on them? And they are a much, much easier target.
    Look at ThePirateBay, you just end up playing whack-a-mole with little success.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,949
    edited August 6

    Scott_xP said:

    @JoshHalliday

    Liam Grey, 20, is the second of six alleged Rotherham rioters up at Sheffield magistrates’ court today. Said to have been “milling around” to “have a nosy” but denied being part of violent disorder. Alleged to have pushed a police officer after being rammed with a riot shield.

    Grey’s solicitor: “he says he just wished he hadn’t gone”

    District judge tells Grey he has no option but to remand him in custody given the context of ongoing riots and risk he would take part.

    Grey, who has no previous cautions or convictions, looks close to tears as he is taken back to the court cells after being remanded in custody.

    I might just go to Sheffield Magistrates Court and laugh at these people.

    I think I’ve still got my PB press pass.
    You need to write a new header on the VP pick, and another for when Nigel Farage charges that two tier Keir is letting out murderers and rapists to make room for rioters with justifiable complaints.

    ETA well, that aged well.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    This thread is no longer the favourite

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    So you want to ban VPN? Good luck with that.

    Talk to some Chinese people about how they get round the Great Firewall.
    Not ban no but the police can still crack those who use it illegally
    I connect to a VPN hosted in India, say.

    The UK government/Police has no way of knowing where it goes from there. Unless the Indian government makes the Indian VPN company tell them. And multi-hop VPNs are a thing.
    Which it could do if illegal activity going on
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    murali_s said:

    Totally off topic, but one for Sunil - did the full Colombo-Badulla line (there and back) a couple of days ago - 10-12 hours each way. It has to be one of the world's greatest rail journeys, rising to a peak of almost 2km above sea level amid lush jungle, pristine tea estates and dramatic waterfalls, including crossing the famous 9 arches bridge, and traversing the incredible Demoda loop. My favourite moment comes when the line crosses the top of a mountain ridge, with the ground dropping away steeply on each side and the station at the summit drifting in and out of the clouds. One for all rail fans or anyone who enjoys jaw dropping scenery.

    Funnily enough, I’m in Colombo right now and was thinking about doing the Budulla trip - just not sure if it would work with a 5 year old in tow (though he loves trains!)

    On another front (and a bit tongue in cheek), is it safe to come back to the UK? Will I be lynched? Though I guess London is a different kettle of fish when compared to other parts of the country. Stay safe everyone!
    12 hours on a non AC train with a load of increasingly drunk Lankans playing baila music at top volume might try a 5 year old's patience.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,879
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Please explain how you ban twitter or even nationalise a foreign company?
    The best you can do is tell british isps to block the urls....this stops absolutely no one in the uk from accessing twitter if they want to and makes the governement trying to do it look as toothless as they in fact are
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,879
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
    And be easily bypassed
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,879
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
    The police can still id those accessing illegal sites on VPNs even if it is a bit harder. They can also order ISPs to tell them who is using VPNs if to identify criminals

    That depends on the VPN
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JoshHalliday

    Liam Grey, 20, is the second of six alleged Rotherham rioters up at Sheffield magistrates’ court today. Said to have been “milling around” to “have a nosy” but denied being part of violent disorder. Alleged to have pushed a police officer after being rammed with a riot shield.

    Grey’s solicitor: “he says he just wished he hadn’t gone”

    District judge tells Grey he has no option but to remand him in custody given the context of ongoing riots and risk he would take part.

    Grey, who has no previous cautions or convictions, looks close to tears as he is taken back to the court cells after being remanded in custody.

    I might just go to Sheffield Magistrates Court and laugh at these people.

    I think I’ve still got my PB press pass.
    You don’t need a press pass to get into a courtroom. They are public

    I used to go to the Old Bailey. Once as the accused then several times after out of sheer interest

    It always amazed me that you can just walk in and see these intense human dramas playing out right in front of you
    We went on a school trip, the teacher literally asked if there was anything juicy going on. We observed part of a murder trial.
This discussion has been closed.