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Austerity is popular – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    edited August 6
    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    HYUFD said:

    Not confirmed nor has she called him yet though clueless if true and likely ensures Trump wins the EC.

    Walz is governor of Minnesota which is solid Democratic and even voted for Hillary, Dukakis and Mondale
    You make the assumption that Vice Presidents bring their state's with them. That hasn't been the case for decades and the supposedly the difference of selecting a VP candidate from a State is 0.5% or a rounding error...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    HYUFD said:

    Not confirmed nor has she called him yet though clueless if true and likely ensures Trump wins the EC.

    Walz is governor of Minnesota which is solid Democratic and even voted for Hillary, Dukakis and Mondale
    Are you as certain of this as you were that Harris would definitely lose the election?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,082
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    Preferably in a way that does not instantly validate unfavourable comparisons of free speech here and in Russia.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,450
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    They should for all the Jew hatred that Musk is defending.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,845
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    No - I mean double-sided. SPD (mountain bike) clips one side, flats the other. This may be semantics.

    Checked, and I'm using Shimano PD-A 530s, which have been on it for years.

    Lesson 1 was when adjusting clips start loose and tighten, not the other way round.

    (I hope you don't insist on calling pedals with clips, "clipless". :wink: )
    That, for me, is single sided.

    I am willing to have a vicious argument about this irrelevant topic, in the finest PB tradition.
    I'm not.

    You're wrong, and I am unanimous on that.

    But you have carefully avoided answered the more important irrelevant question about clipless pedals which have clips on them.

    BTW do you say "flammable" or "inflammable"?
    I find the fact that you "clip in" to "clipless" pedals completely bizarre. Who the hell thought that pedals you clip into should be called "clipless"?
    Pedals used in competition had a toe clip which was tightened with leather straps. Until Hinault won the 1985 TdF using Look pedals that attached to his shoes but had no toe clip - hence clipless.

    They are worth about 15W so anybody not using them is seriously fucking up. Also, zero float cleats to demonstrate one is not a weakling who flinches from searing knee pain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,998
    edited August 6

    HYUFD said:

    Not confirmed nor has she called him yet though clueless if true and likely ensures Trump wins the EC.

    Walz is governor of Minnesota which is solid Democratic and even voted for Hillary, Dukakis and Mondale
    Are you as certain of this as you were that Harris would definitely lose the election?
    I am even more sure of that now if it does turn out to be Walz, in the EC poll average Harris still trails Trump on average 297-241 with no toss up states. Trump led narrowly in PA, Harris already led in Minnesota
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,457
    rcs1000 said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    You don't have to twist your ankle: you should initiate the motion much higher up the leg, so the entire below the knee area moves outwards.
    Thanks. I'm concerned about spending (possibly...) hundreds of pounds on shoes, pedals et al only to find I'm crippled when I try to use them.

    As a matter of interest, if you fall off sideways, do the shoes remain clipped in, or do they pull out?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited August 6

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    Clipless pedals are adjustable for tightness, so at one end they are completely un-get-outable-of, and at the other end very easy that you can get close to slipping out.

    I looked into this a decade ago when I was thinking about it; I was especially concerned about not being able to get out of the bike if I went into a canal as many paths round here are by canals. Asking, I discovered that a *lot* of cyclists have been into canals in error, and that canals in general are only 3 ft or so deep so not a huge risk of drowning.

    This is why I said start loose and adjust tight; the first time I tried I had to undo my shoelaces and walk 50m back home in my socks with the shoe still on the bike.

    My impression is that you need to move your ankle perhaps 20-30 degrees; the best description I have is "shrug your ankle".

    My suggestion would be to go to a Halfords or similar that you know has shoes and pedals at a quiet-ish time, and ask them to help you. The use one of their bikes with the pedals, start loose clipping and unclipping when the chap is holding you up, and then take a ride round the car park on several settings.

    Were I to do that, I would use my local Halfords or somewhere like SJS Cycles in Chesterfield. I'd have checked out the pedals and shoes were decent but not high end, so would be happy to buy them.

    It could be done via an LBS, especially a big one, but they may not have the large car park.

    Other alternatives are that your local cycling Facebook group is likely to have local get-cycling type people as key members, or talk to someone running a Dr Bike session who could arrange to bring thing to try, or ask a friend.

    I'd put aside about half an afternoon to do it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,501
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    Has Musk rt-ed it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,228
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    No - I mean double-sided. SPD (mountain bike) clips one side, flats the other. This may be semantics.

    Checked, and I'm using Shimano PD-A 530s, which have been on it for years.

    Lesson 1 was when adjusting clips start loose and tighten, not the other way round.

    (I hope you don't insist on calling pedals with clips, "clipless". :wink: )
    That, for me, is single sided.

    I am willing to have a vicious argument about this irrelevant topic, in the finest PB tradition.
    I'm not.

    You're wrong, and I am unanimous on that.

    But you have carefully avoided answered the more important irrelevant question about clipless pedals which have clips on them.

    BTW do you say "flammable" or "inflammable"?
    I find the fact that you "clip in" to "clipless" pedals completely bizarre. Who the hell thought that pedals you clip into should be called "clipless"?
    Pedals used in competition had a toe clip which was tightened with leather straps. Until Hinault won the 1985 TdF using Look pedals that attached to his shoes but had no toe clip - hence clipless.

    They are worth about 15W so anybody not using them is seriously fucking up. Also, zero float cleats to demonstrate one is not a weakling who flinches from searing knee pain.
    Oh, I love my SPD pedals. All my (numerous) bikes have them these days, because once you are used to clipping in, then it's just a much better way to cycle.

    (I can't be arsed to have a separate pedal system - Look or SPD-SL or Speedplay - for my road bike. It's SPD everywhere for me.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    No - I mean double-sided. SPD (mountain bike) clips one side, flats the other. This may be semantics.

    Checked, and I'm using Shimano PD-A 530s, which have been on it for years.

    Lesson 1 was when adjusting clips start loose and tighten, not the other way round.

    (I hope you don't insist on calling pedals with clips, "clipless". :wink: )
    That, for me, is single sided.

    I am willing to have a vicious argument about this irrelevant topic, in the finest PB tradition.
    I'm not.

    You're wrong, and I am unanimous on that.

    But you have carefully avoided answered the more important irrelevant question about clipless pedals which have clips on them.

    BTW do you say "flammable" or "inflammable"?
    I find the fact that you "clip in" to "clipless" pedals completely bizarre. Who the hell thought that pedals you clip into should be called "clipless"?
    It's to do with the previous pedals in use having things called "toe clips", which are like little metal frames that go over the front of your foot.

    So clips on the soul became "clipless pedals".
    Soul / sole.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    Have him killed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    That Musk tweet will be seen by tens of millions of people - he has 193m followers
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,998
    edited August 6
    '@HolmesJosh
    Let me see here - you’ve got a young dynamic governor from a must win state.
    Or
    An old Bernie Sander acolyte career politician from a state Dems haven’t lost since 1972.

    What are the circumstances that would make you pick #2?

    I think we know.'
    https://x.com/HolmesJosh/status/1820808891959046300

    @jamesjohnson252
    'Have to agree here — Shapiro was the obvious choice. Walz might be good on media and popular with the Democrat base, but he’s one of the most progressive Dems in the country. In a race where people worry about how liberal Harris is, that feels like a misstep.'
    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1820809484882591993

    Harris-Walz will be the most leftwing Democratic ticket this century
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    Have him killed.
    Would you volunteer?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,308

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741
    Damn, knew I should have laid Shapiro.
    Sometimes just go with your gut.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    Dura_Ace said:

    a

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    I use old fashioned leather straps on my touring bike. Does that make me a bad person?

    Though Mrs Flatlander insists on using downtube shifters as well, so she's even more retro than I am. They are DuraAce at least.
    I used to love downtube shifters. I liked being able to "throw" the derailleur across multiple gears, and I loved being able to micro adjust if I wasn't quite in the right gear. Modern indexed shifters, by contrast, are a total f*cking pain the arse, because they inevitably become deindexed over time.
    Unless you are fly-by-wire(less) - complete with gear changing sensors to do a perfect job for you....
    There are no sensors in electronic shifting systems. They all depend on the derailleur home position beings correctly set and from there it's an open loop system that relies on the accuracy of the stepper motors. The extent of derailleur travel is set by the position of the limit screws.
    I thought the later Shimano designs “self-trim” the gear changes?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    The Groaniad claims it is tommeh. I’m unconvinced (seems a bit too clever to be TR)

    Either way yes it is definitely sticking now
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited August 6

    rcs1000 said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    You don't have to twist your ankle: you should initiate the motion much higher up the leg, so the entire below the knee area moves outwards.
    Thanks. I'm concerned about spending (possibly...) hundreds of pounds on shoes, pedals et al only to find I'm crippled when I try to use them.

    As a matter of interest, if you fall off sideways, do the shoes remain clipped in, or do they pull out?
    If they pull out you won't fall off, as you can put a foot down..

    The issue I found, which caused me to do this at the Charing Cross Road entrance to Trafalgar Square, is that if you are falling off you try to lurch out with a foot to catch the bike, which means it sticks in the clip and there is no time to remember and readjust to do the movement.

    So it's about pre-setting the muscle memory to do the correct action, and not forgetting in the moment of panic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited August 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    Have him killed.
    As Musk clearly aspires to Bond Villain style and status, it does sound like a job for the 00 service.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    a

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    I use old fashioned leather straps on my touring bike. Does that make me a bad person?

    Though Mrs Flatlander insists on using downtube shifters as well, so she's even more retro than I am. They are DuraAce at least.
    I used to love downtube shifters. I liked being able to "throw" the derailleur across multiple gears, and I loved being able to micro adjust if I wasn't quite in the right gear. Modern indexed shifters, by contrast, are a total f*cking pain the arse, because they inevitably become deindexed over time.
    Unless you are fly-by-wire(less) - complete with gear changing sensors to do a perfect job for you....
    There are no sensors in electronic shifting systems. They all depend on the derailleur home position beings correctly set and from there it's an open loop system that relies on the accuracy of the stepper motors. The extent of derailleur travel is set by the position of the limit screws.
    I thought the later Shimano designs “self-trim” the gear changes?
    FD self trims based on RD position, nothing to do with sensors.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,457
    MattW said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    Clipless pedals are adjustable for tightness, so at one end they are completely un-get-outable-of, and at the other end very easy that you can get close to slipping out.

    I looked into this a decade ago when I was thinking about it; I was especially concerned about not being able to get out of the bike if I went into a canal as many paths round here are by canals. Asking, I discovered that a *lot* of cyclists have been into canals in error, and that canals in general are only 3 ft or so deep so not a huge risk of drowning.

    This is why I said start loose and adjust tight; the first time I tried I had to undo my shoelaces and walk 50m back home in my socks with the shoe still on the bike.

    My impression is that you need to move your ankle perhaps 20-30 degrees; the best description I have is "shrug your ankle".

    My suggestion would be to go to a Halfords or similar that you know has shoes and pedals at a quiet-ish time, and ask them to help you. The use one of their bikes with the pedals, start loose clipping and unclipping when the chap is holding you up, and then take a ride round the car park on several settings.

    Were I to do that, I would use my local Halfords or somewhere like SJS Cycles in Chesterfield. I'd have checked out the pedals and shoes were decent but not high end, so would be happy to buy them.

    It could be done via an LBS, especially a big one, but they may not have the large car park.

    Other alternatives are that your local cycling Facebook group is likely to have local get-cycling type people as key members, or talk to someone running a Dr Bike session who could arrange to bring thing to try, or ask a friend.

    I'd put aside about half an afternoon to do it.
    Thanks, that's a brilliant answer. I'm probably more concerned than I should be; then again, I've purchased an f-load of trainers in the past, only to find I'm in agony after fifty miles or so. When I get a pair that 'work' for me now, I but them in bulk. :)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,516

    rcs1000 said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    You don't have to twist your ankle: you should initiate the motion much higher up the leg, so the entire below the knee area moves outwards.
    Thanks. I'm concerned about spending (possibly...) hundreds of pounds on shoes, pedals et al only to find I'm crippled when I try to use them.

    As a matter of interest, if you fall off sideways, do the shoes remain clipped in, or do they pull out?
    I used to use clip ons but don't anymore. I'm not a serious cyclist so I can't see the point. I never fell off, but I had a lot of close shaves. It takes a few goes to get used to them. Mainly getting started which initially seemed impossible and remembering when stopping. No issues when actually riding though.

    They (well someone else's) did provide a very funny moment. I was doing the London Bikeathon many many years ago and a large number of us were stopped at lights at the end of one of the London bridges. As the guy in front stopped he shouted 'shit' as he fell sideways just like Del in Only Fools and Horses when trying to lean on a non-existent bar. It was a perfect fall. No flailing. We all gave him a 10 out of 10 for execution.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    Look at what is done about Telegram. This tells you what can be done about Twatter.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,593
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    Musk needs to be careful here. It's one thing being some sort of maverick speaker of unpalatable truths; quite another when you're just acting as town crier for the Tories and Reform. If Musk become known as a mere party stooge then that could kill his brand.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    Have him killed.
    Would you volunteer?
    I certainly wouldn't have any compunction over the matter. It would not be the first soul I've tossed into Charon's pedalo for your king/queen and country.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Leon said:

    That Musk tweet will be seen by tens of millions of people - he has 193m followers

    Maybe, but the followers that count for his attempt to start a civil war in the U.K. are in the U.K. There are 23 million “active” accounts in the U.K. By comparison fucking LinkedIn has 35 million.

    As of July 2023, 17 percent of X users in the United Kingdom aged 18 to 24 years reported using the service multiple times per day, compared to 13 percent of users aged 25 to 49 years.

    Doing some very rough, back of a fag packet calculations, the Tweet will be seen by much less than 5 million people in the U.K.

    Meanwhile, in the real world that you like to insist I don’t live in, a former colleague of mine has had her address appear in online discussions of immigration lawyers to target, and she has been warned to install security. Still, “lefty lawyers” don’t count, the real world is somewhere else, eh? In the politest possible way, fuck you, and your “legitimate concerns”.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    HYUFD said:

    '@HolmesJosh
    Let me see here - you’ve got a young dynamic governor from a must win state.
    Or
    An old Bernie Sander acolyte career politician from a state Dems haven’t lost since 1972.

    What are the circumstances that would make you pick #2?

    I think we know.'
    https://x.com/HolmesJosh/status/1820808891959046300

    @jamesjohnson252
    'Have to agree here — Shapiro was the obvious choice. Walz might be good on media and popular with the Democrat base, but he’s one of the most progressive Dems in the country. In a race where people worry about how liberal Harris is, that feels like a misstep.'
    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1820809484882591993

    Harris-Walz will be the most leftwing Democratic ticket this century

    You’ve repeatedly told us that Harris has no chance anyway so what difference does it make?
  • Leon said:

    That Musk tweet will be seen by tens of millions of people - he has 193m followers

    With public figures a lot - maybe even most - of their followers absolutely loathe them. I know that says something fairly bleak about human nature, but there we are.

    There are also a load of people across the world who think Musk is great and subscribe to his world view already.

    However, what Musk does not have is a load of people who are inclined to vote for Starmer but value Musk's opinion. The truth is social media entrenches rather than changes opinion.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Look, I’m no nationalist, but in a spat between an overseas billionaire media magnate and the elected leader of my country, I’ll take the latter thank you. And that would be true of a Tory PM.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    edited August 6
    DougSeal said:

    Look, I’m no nationalist, but in a spat between an overseas billionaire media magnate and the elected leader of my country, I’ll take the latter thank you. And that would be true of a Tory PM.

    I am shocked that people are taking the side of the chap that allows virulent antisemitism on his platform.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,599

    Taz said:

    Labour to repeal some of the Tory Union laws.

    All of this and other legislation is as a result of agreement with the Union paymasters as to what a labour govt would do when in power. The unions have paid the piper they now call the tune.

    If this was the Tories and big business there would be howls of outrage. Yet here there is none.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-s-angela-rayner-announces-draconian-tory-anti-strike-laws-will-be-scrapped/ar-AA1ojAE9?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=45514e4e906145169e8043fb1eef49ba&ei=51

    You seem to be howling a bit tbf
    Whereas you’re always barking 👍
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,593
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
  • Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    Musk needs to be careful here. It's one thing being some sort of maverick speaker of unpalatable truths; quite another when you're just acting as town crier for the Tories and Reform. If Musk become known as a mere party stooge then that could kill his brand.
    I fundamentally doubt that. He doesn’t even have a brand as such in the UK. He’s hated by some and admired by others - probably 95% of Britain doesn’t care or know either way

    My point is that he can boost memes and give them immense virality. Way beyond TwiX users
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,599
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Labour to repeal some of the Tory Union laws.

    All of this and other legislation is as a result of agreement with the Union paymasters as to what a labour govt would do when in power. The unions have paid the piper they now call the tune.

    If this was the Tories and big business there would be howls of outrage. Yet here there is none.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-s-angela-rayner-announces-draconian-tory-anti-strike-laws-will-be-scrapped/ar-AA1ojAE9?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=45514e4e906145169e8043fb1eef49ba&ei=51

    Was it ever actually used.

    Because I suspect the end result would be that everyone called in sick on the day of the strike rather than admitted they were striking...

    End result would be the same except companies would need to pay money out...
    Pretty sure it was never used.

    Suspect it was an attempt at populism for an increasingly desperate Tory govt in its dying days.

    Don’t people currently call in sick or take holidays on strike days anyway ? They did when our shop floor went out .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,998
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    DougSeal said:

    Look, I’m no nationalist, but in a spat between an overseas billionaire media magnate and the elected leader of my country, I’ll take the latter thank you. And that would be true of a Tory PM.

    I cannot see anyone taking the “side” of Musk in this instance. I merely pointed out that musk is goading Starmer and we are speculating if and how Labour could respond. No one made approving noises. As so often, these terrible things are more salient in your imagination than in reality
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    DougSeal said:

    Look, I’m no nationalist, but in a spat between an overseas billionaire media magnate and the elected leader of my country, I’ll take the latter thank you. And that would be true of a Tory PM.

    I suspect even Big John Owls will take Starmer’s side over Musk’s side on this.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    Again, you’ve said that it doesn’t matter who she picks, so what’s the difference?
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,599

    It’s Tim Walz.

    Apparently he’s quite progressive and a member of the National Guard
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Michael Moore (a Michigander), Josh Shapiro has chosen badly on Gaza. He also points out in this interview that Michigan is vulnerable given the number of pro-Palestinian voters

    As you know I am lairy of battleground state theory: you have to consider the effect on all the states, not just one. Everybody is focussing on Shapiro to get Pennsylvania and missing that he may lose Michigan

    https://youtu.be/GnZ7DaYfeyo?si=ermGBlfMCx90deaQ&t=303

    Yes, that is a very good point re Shapiro and it is not only Michigan where that may cause problems - for example, in Wisconsin, his viewpoints are unlikely to go down well in a university town like Madison and that could also prove fatal to the Democrat chances in that state.

    At this stage, and given the reaction to her candidacy, Harris is likely to be thinking "what pick does not risk significant blowback?" On that measure, Kelly may be the 'safest' of the three.

    Alternatively, she therefore may decide that it is best to go with the one who can amplify her message. If that is the case, Walz may be the pick if she decides that firing up the base is the way to go.

    However, in either of the two above scenarios, Shapiro would seem the riskiest option
    I agree that Shapiro carries significant risk, and I suspect that the campaign's motto will be: First, Do No Harm.

    The lowest risk candidate has to be Mark Kelly: popular, moderate, and a great backstory.

    But I must admit, I would roll the dice if I were Kamala, and would pick Buttigieg, because he would absolutely wipe the floor with Vance.
    But is wiping the floor with Vance such a big deal? Vance looks like he will wipe the floor with himself unaided tbh.
    In retrospect, and probably prospect, JDV was a terrible VP pick. He amplifies DJT's negatives of weird shithousery and provides zero positives. I suspect he was selected because he's a reformed Trump critic and DJT's monstrous vanity could not resist parading that supplication.
    JDV was meant to preserve the MAGA succession in 2028 as Trump cannot run for a 3rd term even if he wins.

    On the other hand if Trump and Vance lose then that is a total defeat of MAGA and so a more traditional conservative like DeSantis or a moderate like Haley looks favourite for the GOP nomination next time
    DeSantis is often depicted as a mini-Trump; he's not that much of a traditional conservative. Even Haley only really counts as a "moderate" relative to the current GOP.
    DeSantis is not MAGA though. Haley is the most centrist candidate who ran in the primaries this year in US terms, GOP or Democrat, she is more moderate than Biden and Harris as well
    Balderdash. I'll let this Vox article explain it for me: https://www.vox.com/policy/24042053/nikki-haley-moderate-conservative-democracy
    She isn't a moderate for leftwingers iike you but then no centrist conservative ever would be, certainly not in the US.

    However Haley led Biden by 8% in February while Trump had just a 2% lead and DeSantis a 3% lead and Haley had a 16% lower unfavourable rating than Harris did
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-haley-fares-best-against-biden-2024-presidential-election-poll/
    https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-popularity-compared-nikki-haley-1866503
    Haley's not really a centrist, she's quite a way to the right of Trump on foreign policy I think.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,998
    edited August 6

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump. Even if Harris-Walz win Mi, Wi and MN, if Trump wins GA, Az and Nevada and PA he wins 287-251, almost exactly the same EC margin as the 286-251 margin Bush beat Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.270towin.com/
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not confirmed nor has she called him yet though clueless if true and likely ensures Trump wins the EC.

    Walz is governor of Minnesota which is solid Democratic and even voted for Hillary, Dukakis and Mondale
    Are you as certain of this as you were that Harris would definitely lose the election?
    I am even more sure of that now if it does turn out to be Walz, in the EC poll average Harris still trails Trump on average 297-241 with no toss up states. Trump led narrowly in PA, Harris already led in Minnesota
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college
    It's just incredibly reductive to view VP picks as conferring a home state advantage and that's it.

    Their influence is marginal in any event (albeit marginal gains in a close election are worth having). But that influence is not really about the home state. If Walz (or Vance, also not from a key swing state) performs well, he'll add to the appeal of the relevant ticket a little across the board - so Vance is supposed to bring a working class roots, youthful vigour thing, and Walz a folksy and reassuring successful governor vibe. If they f*** up, they'll have breached the golden rule ("first do no harm"") of VP picks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603

    DougSeal said:

    Look, I’m no nationalist, but in a spat between an overseas billionaire media magnate and the elected leader of my country, I’ll take the latter thank you. And that would be true of a Tory PM.

    I suspect even Big John Owls will take Starmer’s side over Musk’s side on this.
    I believe BJO was ahead of the curve about Two Tier Keir with his observations on how he handled different backbench MPs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited August 6

    MattW said:

    Since we're on the topic of pedals...

    I have a bad ankle, and one that can react badly (*) to sideways twisting motions. I'd love to get clipless pedals, but am quite concerned about :
    1) getting clipless shoes that don't aggravate my ankle.
    2) whether the twisting movement to disconnect would cause pain, especially if done hurriedly and unexpectedly.

    The former I can probably check by going into a shop and trying loads on, and then getting compatible pedals for the show.

    But my real concern is the latter. How much of a twisting motion, and how much force, is required to clip and unclip?

    (The main reason I want to get some is for power measurement purposes.)

    (*) The agonising-pain definition of 'react badly'.

    (Yes, I know this isn't obscurecyclingquestions.com...)

    Clipless pedals are adjustable for tightness, so at one end they are completely un-get-outable-of, and at the other end very easy that you can get close to slipping out.

    I looked into this a decade ago when I was thinking about it; I was especially concerned about not being able to get out of the bike if I went into a canal as many paths round here are by canals. Asking, I discovered that a *lot* of cyclists have been into canals in error, and that canals in general are only 3 ft or so deep so not a huge risk of drowning.

    This is why I said start loose and adjust tight; the first time I tried I had to undo my shoelaces and walk 50m back home in my socks with the shoe still on the bike.

    My impression is that you need to move your ankle perhaps 20-30 degrees; the best description I have is "shrug your ankle".

    My suggestion would be to go to a Halfords or similar that you know has shoes and pedals at a quiet-ish time, and ask them to help you. The use one of their bikes with the pedals, start loose clipping and unclipping when the chap is holding you up, and then take a ride round the car park on several settings.

    Were I to do that, I would use my local Halfords or somewhere like SJS Cycles in Chesterfield. I'd have checked out the pedals and shoes were decent but not high end, so would be happy to buy them.

    It could be done via an LBS, especially a big one, but they may not have the large car park.

    Other alternatives are that your local cycling Facebook group is likely to have local get-cycling type people as key members, or talk to someone running a Dr Bike session who could arrange to bring thing to try, or ask a friend.

    I'd put aside about half an afternoon to do it.
    Thanks, that's a brilliant answer. I'm probably more concerned than I should be; then again, I've purchased an f-load of trainers in the past, only to find I'm in agony after fifty miles or so. When I get a pair that 'work' for me now, I but them in bulk. :)
    Looking, I see that Sport Pursuit have a lot of SPD shoes for 50-70% off in the £40-80 range (after reduction).
    https://www.sportpursuit.com/search?s=spd shoes&p=1

    My comment would be that that won't especially help for a first pair, but that in general such shoes will have stiff soles so get some personal recommendations of lowish-end-but-comfortable shoes. All elements of the cycling market are driven by 'sexy' tech and deep discounting; it's just about waiting and pretty much everything will be half-price somewhere at some point.

    Unless anyone can say to the other, SPD clip-in cycle shoes are more comfortable to eg walk in, but they will not be *as* comfortable as normal trainer to spend a day in. So are fine if you stop for lunch, but think twice before touring the Louvre wearing them.

    ATB
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
    Yet the guardian has dedicated a front page article to “debunking” it. That doesn’t happen unless it unnerves the target


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,969
    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    A lot of politicians would like to do something about social media giants, and Musk being a right wing cock adds to the impulse, but it seems like a needless rabbit hole to go down to me. It can wait.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
    Yet the guardian has dedicated a front page article to “debunking” it. That doesn’t happen unless it unnerves the target


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread
    I see it’s been upgraded from mere misinformation to myth.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    According to Michael Moore (a Michigander), Josh Shapiro has chosen badly on Gaza. He also points out in this interview that Michigan is vulnerable given the number of pro-Palestinian voters

    As you know I am lairy of battleground state theory: you have to consider the effect on all the states, not just one. Everybody is focussing on Shapiro to get Pennsylvania and missing that he may lose Michigan

    https://youtu.be/GnZ7DaYfeyo?si=ermGBlfMCx90deaQ&t=303

    Yes, that is a very good point re Shapiro and it is not only Michigan where that may cause problems - for example, in Wisconsin, his viewpoints are unlikely to go down well in a university town like Madison and that could also prove fatal to the Democrat chances in that state.

    At this stage, and given the reaction to her candidacy, Harris is likely to be thinking "what pick does not risk significant blowback?" On that measure, Kelly may be the 'safest' of the three.

    Alternatively, she therefore may decide that it is best to go with the one who can amplify her message. If that is the case, Walz may be the pick if she decides that firing up the base is the way to go.

    However, in either of the two above scenarios, Shapiro would seem the riskiest option
    I agree that Shapiro carries significant risk, and I suspect that the campaign's motto will be: First, Do No Harm.

    The lowest risk candidate has to be Mark Kelly: popular, moderate, and a great backstory.

    But I must admit, I would roll the dice if I were Kamala, and would pick Buttigieg, because he would absolutely wipe the floor with Vance.
    But is wiping the floor with Vance such a big deal? Vance looks like he will wipe the floor with himself unaided tbh.
    In retrospect, and probably prospect, JDV was a terrible VP pick. He amplifies DJT's negatives of weird shithousery and provides zero positives. I suspect he was selected because he's a reformed Trump critic and DJT's monstrous vanity could not resist parading that supplication.
    JDV was meant to preserve the MAGA succession in 2028 as Trump cannot run for a 3rd term even if he wins.

    On the other hand if Trump and Vance lose then that is a total defeat of MAGA and so a more traditional conservative like DeSantis or a moderate like Haley looks favourite for the GOP nomination next time
    DeSantis is often depicted as a mini-Trump; he's not that much of a traditional conservative. Even Haley only really counts as a "moderate" relative to the current GOP.
    DeSantis is not MAGA though. Haley is the most centrist candidate who ran in the primaries this year in US terms, GOP or Democrat, she is more moderate than Biden and Harris as well
    Balderdash. I'll let this Vox article explain it for me: https://www.vox.com/policy/24042053/nikki-haley-moderate-conservative-democracy
    She isn't a moderate for leftwingers iike you but then no centrist conservative ever would be, certainly not in the US.

    However Haley led Biden by 8% in February while Trump had just a 2% lead and DeSantis a 3% lead and Haley had a 16% lower unfavourable rating than Harris did
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-haley-fares-best-against-biden-2024-presidential-election-poll/
    https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-popularity-compared-nikki-haley-1866503
    Haley's not really a centrist, she's quite a way to the right of Trump on foreign policy I think.
    I don’t think it’s as simply as equating hawkishness with right wing. Trump is very much in a right wing tradition of US isolationism.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Walz seems likeable enough but I think it was a mistake to lose me £5 on the market to pass over Shapiro.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited August 6
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    Ex military too, small town childhood in Nebraska, a proper salt of the earth rural Democrat, in the old style.

    I hadn't heard of him until a few weeks ago, but a good pick.

    Surprised that he is 60. He looks older.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,969
    I liked what I'd seen of Shapiro (neverTrump Republicans seemed to prefer him too) but apparently Walz is pretty good, and whatever his potential downsides he's clearly not a disaster of a pick.

    There will be much overreaction.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,603
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,501
    Musky picking up all the tropes favoured by British racist gammons. He’s a quick study as I believe our septic friends might say.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1820804792240734655?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,958
    edited August 6
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Only if the moniker has a grain of truth, which this one doesn't despite heroic efforts here and elsewhere to pretend it does.

    Almost no-one thinks Keir Starmer is responsible for the riots, while social media (musk) is the most cited cause after the rioters themselves



    The whole piece is worth reading. Only Reform and half of Conservative voters think the rioters have a case leaving aside the violence. Keir Starmer is absolutely in the mainstream on this issue.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50257-the-public-reaction-to-the-2024-riots
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    edited August 6
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    (Top Brompton upgrade: I bought some removable dual platform pedals so I can "clip in" when riding. It dramatically improves the experience.)

    I have Shimano XTR M9120 on mine because I ride it a lot in the rain and they are one of the few pedals that have properly sealed bearings and don't need rebuilding after every third wet ride.
    I like to fold my Brompton into a very small space, so I need removable pedals. But on my road bike, I have the Shimano Deore SPD pedals and absolutely love them. They have been rock solid for years without the slightest issue.
    I have double sided pedals on my main 700C cycle, which are fine, but tbh I haven't used the SPD side for several years.
    I think you mean single-sided? And I'm the same - thought I'd use my MTB shoes all the time but usually end up using some walking shoes (or even sandals).
    No - I mean double-sided. SPD (mountain bike) clips one side, flats the other. This may be semantics.

    Checked, and I'm using Shimano PD-A 530s, which have been on it for years.

    Lesson 1 was when adjusting clips start loose and tighten, not the other way round.

    (I hope you don't insist on calling pedals with clips, "clipless". :wink: )
    That, for me, is single sided.

    I am willing to have a vicious argument about this irrelevant topic, in the finest PB tradition.
    I'm not.

    You're wrong, and I am unanimous on that.

    But you have carefully avoided answered the more important irrelevant question about clipless pedals which have clips on them.

    BTW do you say "flammable" or "inflammable"?
    I find the fact that you "clip in" to "clipless" pedals completely bizarre. Who the hell thought that pedals you clip into should be called "clipless"?
    Pedals used in competition had a toe clip which was tightened with leather straps. Until Hinault won the 1985 TdF using Look pedals that attached to his shoes but had no toe clip - hence clipless.

    They are worth about 15W so anybody not using them is seriously fucking up. Also, zero float cleats to demonstrate one is not a weakling who flinches from searing knee pain.
    If your shoe sole is reasonably stiff I'm not sure where the energy losses are (except possibly extra drag) even though you might well get 15W more in a sprint.

    The main thing I worry about is that crashing with tight straps is not great as the bike stays attached. Look were a ski-binding company I think, which might tell you why someone thought it a good idea.
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump
    Independents going for Trump just doesn't square with the polls.

    I accept such theoretically non-aligned voters aren't always as non-aligned as they say. But you're making an assertion without much real evidence.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Or hit it where it hurts. Make Twitter financially liable for publishing lies and trolling.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    It looks like “two tier Keir” will not only stick but go global.
    Do we know who was the first person to say that phrase?

    It looks like it’s sticking, and not in a good way for the PM.
    Think it was Nige.
    Whoever did it deserves the Nobel for mean political nicknames. They are usually so pathetic and cringe

    Bliar
    Smarmeron
    Rishi Sunk
    Sir Beer Korma (funny but toothless)

    Etc etc etc

    Two Tier Kier is sharp and nasty and memorable and makes a firm political point at a crucial moment

    Yes, yes, yes, but what does it mean?
    It does have the crippling handicap for a cognomen of inapparentness.
    Yet the guardian has dedicated a front page article to “debunking” it. That doesn’t happen unless it unnerves the target


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/england-riots-two-tier-policing-myth-widespread
    Indeed, you can see how this hurts them, especially on the left. Fire and brimstone against white people rioting, taking the knee when black people riot. Nobody likes rioters and it was a mistake for Starmer to take the knee and support the rioters.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 199
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Not confirmed nor has she called him yet though clueless if true and likely ensures Trump wins the EC.

    Walz is governor of Minnesota which is solid Democratic and even voted for Hillary, Dukakis and Mondale
    Are you as certain of this as you were that Harris would definitely lose the election?
    I am even more sure of that now if it does turn out to be Walz, in the EC poll average Harris still trails Trump on average 297-241 with no toss up states. Trump led narrowly in PA, Harris already led in Minnesota
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college
    So what you're saying is that there's a ceiling to the support that Walz will bring to the Democrat ticket?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    That you're even comparing the two says much about your comprehension of US politics.

    And Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type to spend 24 years serving in the National Guard.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,969
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    True, though either of those seem like bad ideas. But they are not helpless if they truly think something must be done.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump
    Independents going for Trump just doesn't square with the polls.

    I accept such theoretically non-aligned voters aren't always as non-aligned as they say. But you're making an assertion without much real evidence.
    I would say the opposite. Walz is aimed directly at the white suburban and rural voter. Couldn't make a more heartland American in central casting.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    True, though either of those seem like bad ideas. But they are not helpless if they truly think something must be done.
    How do you

    1) Ban Twitter ?

    or

    2) Nationalise Twitter (from the UK) ?

    I'm not being sarcastic - there is a genuine and sensible debate to be had here.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,902
    Shapiro could be viewed as a liberal elite and too pro Israel . Kelly a bit wooden . No VP candidate ticks every box .

    Walz isn’t going to terrify anyone and his service in the National Guard isn’t going to do him any harm . As opposed to Vance whose comments about women and those without children are going to get much more air time in the run up to the election .
  • FossFoss Posts: 893
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,520
    I think the ‘importance’ of Shapiro receded a little as it became clear in recent days that the battlegrounds are shifting.

    Under Biden it felt very much like an all or nothing crapshoot for MI, WI and PA.

    NV, AZ, GA, NC looked to be gone.

    In recent days it’s become clear that Harris’ map is a little more open. AZ still looks very challenging on most assessments, but she at least looks to be back in the game in a few of those other states.

    That’s not to downplay the importance of PA, but perhaps she has decided that Walz is better across the board. We shall see.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    edited August 6
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    That you're even comparing the two says much about your comprehension of US politics.

    And Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type to spend 24 years serving in the National Guard.
    Wolz is very much middle of the road Democrat.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,678
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
    VPN providers thank you for your contribution.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,561
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    Musk needs to be careful here. It's one thing being some sort of maverick speaker of unpalatable truths; quite another when you're just acting as town crier for the Tories and Reform. If Musk become known as a mere party stooge then that could kill his brand.
    I fundamentally doubt that. He doesn’t even have a brand as such in the UK. He’s hated by some and admired by others - probably 95% of Britain doesn’t care or know either way

    My point is that he can boost memes and give them immense virality. Way beyond TwiX users
    95% of Brits would have been there cheering for our athletes to win and then waiting on to see the world pole vault record broken by the Swede, which puts you in the bottom 5% of our deplorables. You’d do well to find somewhere else to base yourself, since you’re not wanted at home.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    Ex military too, small town childhood in Nebraska, a proper salt of the earth rural Democrat, in the old style.

    I hadn't heard of him until a few weeks ago, but a good pick.

    Surprised that he is 60. He looks older.
    Well he is an ex high school teacher...

    From an internal party POV, it's quite a smart pick too.
    He's probably too old to run for Pres. after Harris (assuming she wins), so it keeps all the ambitious next generation fully engaged. Picking Shapiro would have been something of a death knell for his contemporaries' ambitions.

    As it is, they will all want to be seen as an important part of the winning coalition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    It would be a truly fascinating test of raw power. The EU likes to threaten Musk as well - esp Thierry Breton - tho I don’t think they have actually done much. Yet

    Perhaps in reality there isn’t much you can do in a liberal society
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,599
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Or hit it where it hurts. Make Twitter financially liable for publishing lies and trolling.
    Trolling. They’d have to define it first.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,053

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    True, though either of those seem like bad ideas. But they are not helpless if they truly think something must be done.
    How do you

    1) Ban Twitter ?

    or

    2) Nationalise Twitter (from the UK) ?

    I'm not being sarcastic - there is a genuine and sensible debate to be had here.
    I replied to a similar point by Williamglenn here: https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4923633/#Comment_4923633
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    How much infrastructure do they have in the UK to nationalise?
    Fair point. To make my point make sense, you'de have to create a Government-approved Twitter ("British Twitter Corporation") and Ban the Musk-Twitter by removing his licence to broadcast in the UK. Then shoot down his satellites one-by-one until he stops trying to bypass it.

    The only license the broadcast is for Starlink. Twitter itself has no "broadcast" license.

    So you could ban Starlink in the UK. But that wouldn't have anything to do with stopping Twitter.

    Attempting to shoot down satellites that are the responsibility of another country is an act of war.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,419
    edited August 6

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    I suggest you learn about VPNs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    I think Harris' strategy here is this:

    - Walz is the best bet for keeping the trifecta of MI, WI and MN
    - I'm bound to lose Georgia, Arizona and Nevada on current polling but:
    - If I can get Shapiro to aggressively campaign for me, I might have a chance in PA

    Not a bad strategy per se - winning GA, NV and AZ still means Trump loses but is obviously taking a bet with PA. The risk is that Walz might keep the progressives on side, he may lose some of the white working class voters Biden retook in swing states.
    Yes, Harris-Walz will lose some of the independent surburban voters Shapiro would have won who voted for Trump or libertarian in 2016 but Biden in 2020. It also loses some of the white working class voters Biden won.

    Its only chance is massive turnout of progressives and African Americans now in swing states, Independents almost certainly now go for Trump
    Independents going for Trump just doesn't square with the polls.

    I accept such theoretically non-aligned voters aren't always as non-aligned as they say. But you're making an assertion without much real evidence.
    I would say the opposite. Walz is aimed directly at the white suburban and rural voter. Couldn't make a more heartland American in central casting.
    There's only one VP candidate who wears guyliner.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,510
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    It would be a truly fascinating test of raw power. The EU likes to threaten Musk as well - esp Thierry Breton - tho I don’t think they have actually done much. Yet

    Perhaps in reality there isn’t much you can do in a liberal society
    I suspect it’s bit like banning porn for teenagers.

    The resourceful will find a way around it but ISPs and mobile providers will be able to see what you’re up to and pass your details on to the government.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,227
    edited August 6
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    Musk needs to be careful here. It's one thing being some sort of maverick speaker of unpalatable truths; quite another when you're just acting as town crier for the Tories and Reform. If Musk become known as a mere party stooge then that could kill his brand.
    I fundamentally doubt that. He doesn’t even have a brand as such in the UK. He’s hated by some and admired by others - probably 95% of Britain doesn’t care or know either way

    My point is that he can boost memes and give them immense virality. Way beyond TwiX users
    95% of Brits would have been there cheering for our athletes to win and then waiting on to see the world pole vault record broken by the Swede, which puts you in the bottom 5% of our deplorables. You’d do well to find somewhere else to base yourself, since you’re not wanted at home.
    Ah, Ian. Bless


    You’ll be pleased to know I’ve had a magnificent day wandering around Paris. All down the Seine and the Tuileries and the Marais and In and out of cafes. The city has the same mood as london during our Games - a kind of dream like gladness and languor - like the city becomes a better, happier version of itself for a fortnight. Like a garden party from the nineteenth century but set in a carless future. Beautiful
  • FossFoss Posts: 893
    kyf_100 said:

    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Blocking the vast majority of Twitter's network would take minutes for a competent ISP.
    VPN providers thank you for your contribution.
    Alas, my 'This Is Good For Tor' tee-shirt is downstairs. But net users won't care enough about Twitter to use a VPN and, more importantly, if they're going to war with a a big social media company, then they'll probably be looking at the VPNs as well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,741

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Musk has just openly goaded Starmer, calling him “two tier Kier”

    I wonder if Labour will move against TwiX

    If they don't soon, Musk may make his predictions become reality.

    There's about 6000 posts in support of him, again, in the Mail today, a portion of which are probably repeating bots, again.
    How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?

    It’s not obviously easy. I’m not even sure it’s practically possible. The USA could maybe do it as X is obvs American and Musk lives there and the USG can shrug off the complaints

    Starmer I dunno
    "How do you tackle a dude as powerful as musk on a platform as ubiquitous as X?"

    Easy. One of the following:

    i) Ban Twitter, or
    ii) Nationalise Twitter

    National governments have acquired an air of learned helplessness, constantly promising to do things and then not doing them. They forget they are the ultimate power in their sovereign state.
    Can you ban Twitter? Serious question. Don’t you need a kind of Chinese firewall?

    Nationalisation would be an even bigger reach

    These social media moguls are like the media barons of old - but with international power and allied invulnerability

    I wonder if even a POTUS would take on a Musk or a Zuckerberg. Xi would
    Theoretically it is very easy.

    Like dealing with spammers, hackers, fraudsters, and criminals. Get the ISPs to ban the IP addresses of Twitter.

    The Civil Contingencies Act gives the PM wide scope in this.
    Probably easier to make him legally liable for some of the shit that he posts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,599
    Centrist Mom Emily Maitlis approves

    https://x.com/maitlis/status/1820806946548584768?s=61
This discussion has been closed.