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Will the quiet man be back and turning up the volume? – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited July 19

    Andy_JS said:

    "London taxi drivers struggling to take card payments"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cnk4jdwp49et

    Absolute scenes.

    Waitrose self-scan checkouts were not working this morning; had to queue up at the ordinary people's checkouts. Taking the rest of the day off to recover.
    Was it payment related for the self checkouts?
    It might have been, indirectly. They were all closed with a member of staff explaining it was due to 'the global IT issues'. I suspect they closed them because they were getting a lot of payment issues.

    On the checkouts a fair few people were unable to pay - the woman in front of me had no working means to pay so just walked off leaving her trolley. I paid by card no problem.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited July 19
    I know nothing about IT but that's not going to stop me from saying it's time the world weaned itself off Microsoft. Apple seem to try and get stuff right before they release it, whereas the Microsoft ethos seems to be get it out there and then fix it later.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Iain Duncan-Smith, the only Conservative leader ever to lose a vote of Confidence is now seen as the answer.

    Two thoughts, first, the world has clearly gone mad and second, if IDS is the answer, can someone please explain the question.

    To be fair, if he makes it back to the top after 21 years, it'll be the biggest comeback since Lazarus or the Lib Dems.

    Fun and games in the two local by elections in Newham yesterday. Labour holding both seats with just under 40% of the vote and the Newham Independents getting just over 30% so not the spectacular swing which saw Labour lose Plaistow South last November (46.3%) but a more General Election type 20% swing (too soon?).

    I'd just observe it's not so much WFH as LFH these days. There was a time when for many "home" was the place where they slept (it was all about going out to work, out to socialise, out for recreation and possibly procreation) but now by dint of pandemics, economics and technology, we can work at home, eat at home, socialise at home and even play/recreate at home.

    The balance between "going out" and "staying in" has shifted. That urban and suburban life where everyone left home in the morning and came home in the evening has gone, probably never to return. It's a cultural and societal shift. People do of course still go out but more selectively and that has economic impacts on the places everyone used to go.

    IDS to be fair to him polled no worse than Howard got in 2005 when he was ousted in 2003, he also saw his voteshare fall by less than the Tory average on 4th July in Chingford even with a Reform candidate
    Yes, the conventional Tory description of IDS/Howard/Cameron is most unfair to IDS who did better than Howard at the ballot box.

    But it is said IDS is not interested in the interim leader role. Whether he might be persuaded... well, we can't bet on it so who cares?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846

    I know nothing about IT but that's not going to stop me from saying it's time the world weaned itself off Microsoft. Apple seem to try and get stuff right before they release new programmes, whereas the Microsoft ethos seems to be get it out there and then fix it later.

    It's not Microsoft but Crowdstrike. There has not been a widespread outage due to Microsoft since *checks notes* yesterday.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    FWIW, I get the impression that Vance is something of a chameleon, who will adopt whatever guise suits for advancing his career, and the interests of his billionaire backers.

    The USCatholicism question is an interesting one. I don't pretend to understand whether the theology of the MAGA right Catholics is sincere, or otherwise (and the current adulation of Trump border on the blasphemous from a Christian perspective), but there's a good article exploring some of the cross currents here:

    The strange world of Catholic 'integralism' — and Christian nationalism

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/strange-world-catholic-integralism-and-christian-nationalism
    ..Vermeule, who previously clerked for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito and was appointed in 2020 by Trump to the Administrative Conference of the United States, has written about the importance of a Christian "strategic adviser" to people in power, citing examples from the Bible where religious figures advised "pagan kings."

    And while Vermeule has argued that "nationalism, in itself, is not a cause to be celebrated," he has conceded that nationalism can be a "second-best defensive strategy" against liberalism.

    Indeed, for all their differences, integralism shares many of the same policy goals as popular forms of Christian nationalism. Referring to Christian nationalism as "bargain store integralism," Vallier said the two movements generally find common cause when it comes to opposition to abortion and support for blasphemy laws, blue laws and banning pornography.

    And support for Trump.

    "All of these vectors converge at Trumpism," said Steven Millies, professor of public theology at the Catholic Theological Union.

    Many prominent integralists and hard-line Christian nationalists ultimately share support for Trump, whom Vermeule has likened to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. Vallier has stated previously that integralists once viewed Trump as a figure similar to Constantine.

    Support for Trump is foundational for hard-core Catholic Christian nationalists. People waving flags branded with the America First logo were among the first to enter the Senate chamber during the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. (Fuentes himself did not enter the Capitol that day.) Fuentes, meanwhile, often uses extreme rhetoric widely decried as racist and antisemitic on his various internet livestreams, such as calling for "Catholic Taliban rule."

    There are also prominent Catholics who champion forms of Christian nationalism that are fairly indistinguishable from Protestants who have rallied around Trump. This includes former Trump adviser Michael Flynn, a Catholic who has headlined a traveling Christian nationalist roadshow known as the ReAwaken America Tour and promoted Christian nationalist organizations.

    Similarly, onetime Trump aide Steve Bannon, who is also Catholic, has identified himself as a "proud Christian nationalist" and described the U.S. as a "new Jerusalem."..
    Thank-you - yes, that is some of the things discussed from a different angle in the interview I posted this morning, which added to my interest in @MrBedfordshire 's comment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T_WPuUCRm0

    The Taliban comparison has some resonance, especially around the desire now being implemented in part via the Supreme Court to impose a new order on society.

    The current generation of Trump-supporting evangelicals seem to be very skilled in doublethink; one would hope that Trump's crimes would be a red flag, but apparently not.

    That's one of the problems with a rootles evangelical theology; it is vulnerable to manipulation due to the absence of checks and balances - whether that is by leaders who have lost their way, or by leaders who are cynical.
    A lot of the "Evangelical" vote in America is not particularly active as Christians, often not attending Church very often if at all, and not leading particularly Christian lives. It is more of a cultural identification that fits with a lot of other things like anti-intellectualism, cultural conservatism as to the role of women, gun ownership, country music etc.

    https://www.churchtrac.com/articles/the-state-of-church-attendance-trends-and-statistics-2023#:~:text=The number of evangelicals that,Survey Center on American Life)
    US Southern Baptist and Assemblies of God evangelicals are below US average income and education on average. Roman Catholics are average on income and education, US Muslims average on income and above average on education.

    Atheists, agnostics, Methodists and Lutherans are above average on income and education.

    Top 3 groups on income are Jews, Hindus and Episcopalians with Presbyterians narrowly behind them, top 3 by education are Unitarians, Hindus and Jews with Episcopalians just behind them
    https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_education#/media/File:Educational_Ranking_by_Religious_Group_-_2001.png
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    I know nothing about IT but that's not going to stop me from saying it's time the world weaned itself off Microsoft. Apple seem to try and get stuff right before they release new programmes, whereas the Microsoft ethos seems to be get it out there and then fix it later.

    I don't believe this failure was MS's fault.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    My experience today: open my macbook, see the news, carry on as normal.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    Nigelb said:

    Moment controversial Leeds Green Party 'Gaza councillor' Mothin Ali heroically stops rioters from burning more things in riots screaming 'there are children in there'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13649859/Leeds-Green-Party-Gaza-councillor-Mothin-Ali-heroically-stops-rioters.html

    Who had that headline on their Daily Mail bingo card?

    Thoughts and prayers for that fucker Farage.
    Gaza being that well-known place in "South Asia", of course :lol:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    My experience today: open my macbook, see the news, carry on as normal.
    Am I right in thinking the machines affected are nearly all used by businesses or their employees for business purposes?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    My experience today: open my macbook, see the news, carry on as normal.
    Am I right in thinking the machines affected are nearly all used by businesses or their employees for business purposes?
    Yes. Crowdstrike is essentially a business tool
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846

    'Traitor, piece of s***, horrible excuse of a woman': New MPs fear attacks after receiving hundreds of abusive messages
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/new-mps-abused-fear-attacks/

    The HoC email system really ought to divert emails with words like that to a police expert to review first before releasing them.
    Yes, but sometimes politicians and the media need also to tone things down. Why should we be appalled at accusations from random internet idiots against Starmer for helping nonces or Miliband for being a traitor or Corbyn for being a communist spy when these accusations also come from the front benches and front pages?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    My experience today: open my macbook, see the news, carry on as normal.
    Am I right in thinking the machines affected are nearly all used by businesses or their employees for business purposes?
    Yes, fair point.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Nigelb said:

    What was going on here ?

    if you do make up for male politicians on tv, i would love to interview you!

    (this is a serious request)

    https://x.com/dieworkwear/status/1814089465662705856

    Isn't he the chap who writes about prime ministers wearing badly tailored suits? It looks like he wants gossip about MPs being vain about bald patches but does not have the right contacts to find out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601

    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?

    Only if you have a MacBook.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    This interesting article explains why:

    https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/how-jd-vance-rejected-evangelicalism

    It seems in the USA that Evangelicalism in the US culture is associated with denial of science and intellectualism that Vance couldn't accept. He is quite dismissive of the shallow religiosity of his fathers Pentocostal Church in Hillbilly Elegy for example. It seems too that Catholicism and Mormonism are the seen as aspirational for the upwardly mobile like Vance, in a way that Episcopalean or Presbyterian Protestantism is no longer for the upper class there.

    Worth noting too that there is a Charismatic Movement in Catholicism in America which isnt too far from Charismatic Protestantism. Amy Coney Barratt is part of that movement for example.
    Catholicism dosent do This book says this so you must do it, or "this book says this is bad so you are bad if you do it"

    They say thats why there is a church magisterium, to correctly interpret what are often parables not literal word of God.

    This does avoid rabbit holes like calling someone who found a millions of years old dinosaur a blasphemer because Genesis says the world was created in a week 5714 years ago.

    The main difference between catholic and protestant bibles is that the catholic one is full of explanatory footnotes.

    The protestant reformations, both the Lutheran/Calvinist one in the 16th Century and the Eastern (arabian) one in the 7th Century* were down to issues in the Church that caused a split that then, sans magesterium, often went down a rabbit hole. After much murder. The C of E stdaddled both and came up with their own magesterium, the General Synod

    *said prophets tract denouncing Christianity is actually a very good demolition of the Gnostic heresy. Unfortunately the Christians he encountered were Gnostic Heretics (Gnosticism has similarieties with western Liberalisms, not least the belief that us modern enlightened types are fundamentally better than savages of old, so things like old fashioned morality are irrelevant.
    I'm not going to agree with all of that ! But thanks very much for your original comment which sent me on an enjoyable diversion into all of this.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Chris said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    My experience today: open my macbook, see the news, carry on as normal.
    Am I right in thinking the machines affected are nearly all used by businesses or their employees for business purposes?
    Yes, fair point.
    Thanks. I wasn't trying to make a point - more wanting to reassure myself that the danger to non-business users was small.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524
  • Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100. When IT crap happens life carries on and people find workarounds.

    A better use for the money would be to assume your IT would pack up one day and work on resilience methods to carry on without it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    There’s a lot of weird shit going on atm, this is right up there. I believe the mooks even spelled the dead fireman’s name wrong on his jacket.


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095
  • MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    This interesting article explains why:

    https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/how-jd-vance-rejected-evangelicalism

    It seems in the USA that Evangelicalism in the US culture is associated with denial of science and intellectualism that Vance couldn't accept. He is quite dismissive of the shallow religiosity of his fathers Pentocostal Church in Hillbilly Elegy for example. It seems too that Catholicism and Mormonism are the seen as aspirational for the upwardly mobile like Vance, in a way that Episcopalean or Presbyterian Protestantism is no longer for the upper class there.

    Worth noting too that there is a Charismatic Movement in Catholicism in America which isnt too far from Charismatic Protestantism. Amy Coney Barratt is part of that movement for example.
    Catholicism dosent do This book says this so you must do it, or "this book says this is bad so you are bad if you do it"

    They say thats why there is a church magisterium, to correctly interpret what are often parables not literal word of God.

    This does avoid rabbit holes like calling someone who found a millions of years old dinosaur a blasphemer because Genesis says the world was created in a week 5714 years ago.

    The main difference between catholic and protestant bibles is that the catholic one is full of explanatory footnotes.

    The protestant reformations, both the Lutheran/Calvinist one in the 16th Century and the Eastern (arabian) one in the 7th Century* were down to issues in the Church that caused a split that then, sans magesterium, often went down a rabbit hole. After much murder. The C of E stdaddled both and came up with their own magesterium, the General Synod

    *said prophets tract denouncing Christianity is actually a very good demolition of the Gnostic heresy. Unfortunately the Christians he encountered were Gnostic Heretics (Gnosticism has similarieties with western Liberalisms, not least the belief that us modern enlightened types are fundamentally better than savages of old, so things like old fashioned morality are irrelevant.
    I'm not going to agree with all of that ! But thanks very much for your original comment which sent me on an enjoyable diversion into all of this.
    No problem, any atempt at cod theology, tryjng to sum up something highly complex in a few readable paragraphs will always result in disagreements.

    See the Nicene Creed (Filioque bit) for further details.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
  • Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    Farage didnt make a last minute decision to run based on the seats he could get in *this* election.

    Ask the Tories (Edward Heath dept.) what power cuts do for electoral fortunes (even when due to hostile actors rather than your own incompetence).
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
    Yeah but it's not clear from the polling that Harris would do much better.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Iain Duncan-Smith, the only Conservative leader ever to lose a vote of Confidence is now seen as the answer.

    Two thoughts, first, the world has clearly gone mad and second, if IDS is the answer, can someone please explain the question.

    To be fair, if he makes it back to the top after 21 years, it'll be the biggest comeback since Lazarus or the Lib Dems.

    Fun and games in the two local by elections in Newham yesterday. Labour holding both seats with just under 40% of the vote and the Newham Independents getting just over 30% so not the spectacular swing which saw Labour lose Plaistow South last November (46.3%) but a more General Election type 20% swing (too soon?).

    I'd just observe it's not so much WFH as LFH these days. There was a time when for many "home" was the place where they slept (it was all about going out to work, out to socialise, out for recreation and possibly procreation) but now by dint of pandemics, economics and technology, we can work at home, eat at home, socialise at home and even play/recreate at home.

    The balance between "going out" and "staying in" has shifted. That urban and suburban life where everyone left home in the morning and came home in the evening has gone, probably never to return. It's a cultural and societal shift. People do of course still go out but more selectively and that has economic impacts on the places everyone used to go.

    IDS to be fair to him polled no worse than Howard got in 2005 when he was ousted in 2003, he also saw his voteshare fall by less than the Tory average on 4th July in Chingford even with a Reform candidate
    To be equally fair, Iain's result was similar to Jeremy Hunt's in Godalming & Ash. I can only imagine, like Jeremy, this was the result of years of hard work in the constituency and a strong personal vote.

    It's hard not to think a "new" candidate might not have been so fortunate.

    I see Alex Burghart dropped from 69% to 37% in Brentwood & Ongar with Reform getting nearly a quarter of the vote while in Epping Forest Neil Hudson dropped from 64% to 43% with no Reform candidate standing. You may well disagree - you know the area far better than I - but had Reform stood in Epping Forest it would have been a much closer result.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    This is just outright racist from REFORM UK Wales

    https://x.com/hazr198/status/1814282672799113304
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100.

    (Snip)

    That's very wrong IMV, for a number of reasons.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
    Yeah but it's not clear from the polling that Harris would do much better.
    Biden isn’t suddenly going to become action man . It’s only going to get worse over the coming months . Two thirds of Dem voters want him to stand aside.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    edited July 19
    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    They'd each guarantee their home states, but black voters would stay at home if the Biden-Harris ticket got completely erased (Whitmer or Shapiro).
    Tbh so would plenty of white voters also.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Betfair has settled the GOP nominee markets (Trump & Vance).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Nunu5 said:

    This is just outright racist from REFORM UK Wales

    https://x.com/hazr198/status/1814282672799113304

    That is shocking.

    Whoever was responsible for it needs the police knocking on their door.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100. When IT crap happens life carries on and people find workarounds.

    A better use for the money would be to assume your IT would pack up one day and work on resilience methods to carry on without it.

    Ah, the idiots view of the millennium bug.

    What actually happened was that a problem was recognised. Testing showed that it was a big problem, for many organisations. A lot of time and effort was spent on fixing the problem.

    As a result of the fixes, the problem didn’t cause a disaster.
    A bit like the idiot's view of COVID, then.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Chris said:

    Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100. When IT crap happens life carries on and people find workarounds.

    A better use for the money would be to assume your IT would pack up one day and work on resilience methods to carry on without it.

    Ah, the idiots view of the millennium bug.

    What actually happened was that a problem was recognised. Testing showed that it was a big problem, for many organisations. A lot of time and effort was spent on fixing the problem.

    As a result of the fixes, the problem didn’t cause a disaster.
    A bit like the idiot's view of COVID, then.
    @thetimes

    🔺 Update: Chris Dimitriadis, chief global strategy officer at ISACA, a professional IT association, called the incident a “digital pandemic”
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    So much for Biden stepping down at the weekend .

    It’s tragic that Biden’s legacy will be the GOP taking control of all the executive branches and a host of state legislatures which will lead to terrible repercussions.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Feck it. I'm going to turn it on.

    If it doesn't work I'll have to go in to work on Monday rather than WFH, so better to know that now than on the day.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    edited July 19
    nico679 said:

    So much for Biden stepping down at the weekend .

    It’s tragic that Biden’s legacy will be the GOP taking control of all the executive branches and a host of state legislatures which will lead to terrible repercussions.

    How do you know he's not stepping down on sunday ? I mean for my book I'd enjoy ruling that out but it's surely a possibility still if you're going from the same logic as last night..
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Nigelb said:

    Ladbrokes and Coral affected by ongoing global IT outage with Sky Sports Racing unable to broadcast live content
    https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/ladbrokes-and-coral-among-those-affected-by-ongoing-global-it-outage-azInq6I6hcBA/

    Thank heavens Betfair is up.
    It's been a good morning to restructure one's book.
    Yes, I've greened up on the Democratic nominee, and will win a bit more if Kamala gets the nod. Neutral on VP nominee. We shall need to be a bit careful interpreting small movements in prices as people adjust their books and take profits.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Iain Duncan-Smith, the only Conservative leader ever to lose a vote of Confidence is now seen as the answer.

    Two thoughts, first, the world has clearly gone mad and second, if IDS is the answer, can someone please explain the question.

    To be fair, if he makes it back to the top after 21 years, it'll be the biggest comeback since Lazarus or the Lib Dems.

    Fun and games in the two local by elections in Newham yesterday. Labour holding both seats with just under 40% of the vote and the Newham Independents getting just over 30% so not the spectacular swing which saw Labour lose Plaistow South last November (46.3%) but a more General Election type 20% swing (too soon?).

    I'd just observe it's not so much WFH as LFH these days. There was a time when for many "home" was the place where they slept (it was all about going out to work, out to socialise, out for recreation and possibly procreation) but now by dint of pandemics, economics and technology, we can work at home, eat at home, socialise at home and even play/recreate at home.

    The balance between "going out" and "staying in" has shifted. That urban and suburban life where everyone left home in the morning and came home in the evening has gone, probably never to return. It's a cultural and societal shift. People do of course still go out but more selectively and that has economic impacts on the places everyone used to go.

    IDS to be fair to him polled no worse than Howard got in 2005 when he was ousted in 2003, he also saw his voteshare fall by less than the Tory average on 4th July in Chingford even with a Reform candidate
    But the situation in Chingford was totally exceptional because of Fazia Shaheen and the split vote. In fact in 2019 it was one of Labour’s few good results and normally should have been an easy win this time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
    The idea anyone is going to change their mind as Biden has Covid is laughable.

    As that polling shows Harris does no better than Biden, in Michigan she does worse, only Shapiro or Whitmer beat Trump in the 2 key swing states of PA or Michigan
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

    Most UK Baptists are anti abortion and anti same sex marriage
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Iain Duncan-Smith, the only Conservative leader ever to lose a vote of Confidence is now seen as the answer.

    Two thoughts, first, the world has clearly gone mad and second, if IDS is the answer, can someone please explain the question.

    To be fair, if he makes it back to the top after 21 years, it'll be the biggest comeback since Lazarus or the Lib Dems.

    Fun and games in the two local by elections in Newham yesterday. Labour holding both seats with just under 40% of the vote and the Newham Independents getting just over 30% so not the spectacular swing which saw Labour lose Plaistow South last November (46.3%) but a more General Election type 20% swing (too soon?).

    I'd just observe it's not so much WFH as LFH these days. There was a time when for many "home" was the place where they slept (it was all about going out to work, out to socialise, out for recreation and possibly procreation) but now by dint of pandemics, economics and technology, we can work at home, eat at home, socialise at home and even play/recreate at home.

    The balance between "going out" and "staying in" has shifted. That urban and suburban life where everyone left home in the morning and came home in the evening has gone, probably never to return. It's a cultural and societal shift. People do of course still go out but more selectively and that has economic impacts on the places everyone used to go.

    IDS to be fair to him polled no worse than Howard got in 2005 when he was ousted in 2003, he also saw his voteshare fall by less than the Tory average on 4th July in Chingford even with a Reform candidate
    To be equally fair, Iain's result was similar to Jeremy Hunt's in Godalming & Ash. I can only imagine, like Jeremy, this was the result of years of hard work in the constituency and a strong personal vote.

    It's hard not to think a "new" candidate might not have been so fortunate.

    I see Alex Burghart dropped from 69% to 37% in Brentwood & Ongar with Reform getting nearly a quarter of the vote while in Epping Forest Neil Hudson dropped from 64% to 43% with no Reform candidate standing. You may well disagree - you know the area far better than I - but had Reform stood in Epping Forest it would have been a much closer result.
    Hunt and IDS both built up personal votes yes in their seats.

    It would have been closer with Reform in EF parliamentary constituency (though an Independent similar in views to Reform got 7% in EF) though even with the same decline in Tory voteshare in Epping Forest as in Brentwood and Ongar Neil Hudson would still have narrowly beaten Labour who got 29% and would also have lost a few in bits like Waltham Abbey to Reform.

    Labour did take Harlow though, the 3rd constituency in EF district, again down to votes lost to Reform
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
    The idea anyone is going to change their mind as Biden has Covid is laughable.

    As that polling shows Harris does no better than Biden, in Michigan she does worse, only Shapiro or Whitmer beat Trump in the 2 key swing states of PA or Michigan
    Biden looks more and more frail. He has no chance of fulfilling another 4 years. What happens after the next debate ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,577
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

    Most UK Baptists are anti abortion and anti same sex marriage
    You can be as against same-sex marriage as you like if you're talking about your own marriage plans.

    If you think same-sex marriage should be outlawed for everyone else on the basis of your personal religious beliefs, then you need either to come up with a reason why those religious beliefs should be imposed on people who don't share them, or a non-religious argument why it shouldn't be allowed.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's the day we find out who's silly enough not to have installed any back-up systems.

    Today is the day somebody got a taxi to the shop, bought a memory stick and charger, came back, disabled the WiFi, started the PC, copied everything to memory stick, emailed all my colleagues and reset appointments to later today/Monday, and should be back to normal by 1pm. And then I'll go to lunch. 😎
    2024 backed up. Now on 2023.
    All done. Went to lunch. Bought WiFi back up but am working offline as a precaution (this is coming to you via tablet). Everything ticketty-boo so far and I now have a full set of backups.

    "Quiet, calm deliberation disentangles any knot." - Harold Macmillan, quoting from Gilbert and Sullivan
    So you are still able to view your code.
    Nominative determinism B)
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    Looks like Biden's digging in... What a disaster for the US.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19
    nico679 said:

    So much for Biden stepping down at the weekend .

    It’s tragic that Biden’s legacy will be the GOP taking control of all the executive branches and a host of state legislatures which will lead to terrible repercussions.

    It was thanks to Biden the GOP took back the White House in the first place from Trump in 2020 and both chambers of Congress.

    It Biden had stood in 2016 not Hillary Trump would likely have lost and never become POTUS at all.

    Governors are elected largely on local issues and performance in the US as often are state legislatures, the national picture is not an automatic predictor
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    Nunu5 said:

    This is just outright racist from REFORM UK Wales

    https://x.com/hazr198/status/1814282672799113304

    Is this genuine?

    There is no account name on it, and the @reformukwales https://x.com/reformukwales account seems to have been defunct since 2021.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,587
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

    Most UK Baptists are anti abortion and anti same sex marriage
    You can be as against same-sex marriage as you like if you're talking about your own marriage plans.

    If you think same-sex marriage should be outlawed for everyone else on the basis of your personal religious beliefs, then you need either to come up with a reason why those religious beliefs should be imposed on people who don't share them, or a non-religious argument why it shouldn't be allowed.
    And "it has always been thus" and "marriage means XYZ" are circular arguments that have no force.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Feck it. I'm going to turn it on.

    If it doesn't work I'll have to go in to work on Monday rather than WFH, so better to know that now than on the day.

    All OK. A lie in on Monday is still available.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,659
    edited July 19
    ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

    Most UK Baptists are anti abortion and anti same sex marriage
    You can be as against same-sex marriage as you like if you're talking about your own marriage plans.

    If you think same-sex marriage should be outlawed for everyone else on the basis of your personal religious beliefs, then you need either to come up with a reason why those religious beliefs should be imposed on people who don't share them, or a non-religious argument why it shouldn't be allowed.
    I can see that if people in times gone by had wanted to propagate the species when it was none too sure that their tribe/people would continue then they might have thought same sex marriage/coupling would be a bad thing.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,587

    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?

    Only if you have a MacBook.
    Or you work for a sensible company that didn't buy the "enterprise grade security" kool-aid, and wasn't affected.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747

    Looks like Biden's digging in... What a disaster for the US.

    Yes, and how stupid of him. Every day just makes it worse. Never before has there been a Trump helper like Biden. We've never seen it before :)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    edited July 19
    This UnHerd article makes the common mistake of stating that until 1998 an MP had to wear a top hat while making a point of order. In fact they only had to wear one if they were raising a point of order during a division, not the rest of the time.

    https://unherd.com/2024/07/our-monarchy-is-an-empty-embarrassment/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,577
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
    They need to appoint her as some kind of regeneration czar so she can go round improving places like Slough.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
    They need to appoint her as some kind of regeneration czar so she can go round improving places like Slough.
    They should appoint her as a scarecrow. Or perhaps a scarepigeon in Trafalgar Square.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568
    edited July 19

    There’s a lot of weird shit going on atm, this is right up there. I believe the mooks even spelled the dead fireman’s name wrong on his jacket.


    It is spelled wrongly, but it's the original jacket and has always been spelled wrongly - there's only space for ten characters on a fireman's jacket, apparently.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    mwadams said:

    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?

    Only if you have a MacBook.
    Or you work for a sensible company that didn't buy the "enterprise grade security" kool-aid, and wasn't affected.
    Well, let's say, for example, you are a large International concern, that has "enterprise grade security" from an established vendor like, say, Symantec, and despite that you get hit with ransonware because Symantec has no protection against the attack vector they used, so you hire some security consultants who say the way to avoid that specific issue again is to install Crowdstrike on all of your assets.

    Hypothetically, if that were to happen, then today, you're fucked...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
    They need to appoint her as some kind of regeneration czar so she can go round improving places like Slough.
    They should appoint her as a scarecrow. Or perhaps a scarepigeon in Trafalgar Square.
    Only if you wanted to be overrun by crows.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    MattW said:

    Nunu5 said:

    This is just outright racist from REFORM UK Wales

    https://x.com/hazr198/status/1814282672799113304

    Is this genuine?

    There is no account name on it, and the @reformukwales https://x.com/reformukwales account seems to have been defunct since 2021.
    It's a screenshot of a Facebook post, not twitter. I can't see it on the FB page.

    The lack of text in the actual post (rather than the image) is sus.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    carnforth said:

    There’s a lot of weird shit going on atm, this is right up there. I believe the mooks even spelled the dead fireman’s name wrong on his jacket.


    It is spelled wrongly, but it's the original jacket and has always been spelled wrongly - there's only space for ten characters on a fireman's jacket, apparently.
    Now, now, don't let's let facts get in the way...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
    They need to appoint her as some kind of regeneration czar so she can go round improving places like Slough.
    They should appoint her as a scarecrow. Or perhaps a scarepigeon in Trafalgar Square.
    I think her predecessor has got the scarecrow market sown up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19

    Looks like Biden's digging in... What a disaster for the US.

    If the Dem elite are pushing Harris over Whitmer or Shapiro to replace him as candidate he is right to dig in, she often polls worse than he does in swing states
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    edited July 19
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Nunu5 said:

    This is just outright racist from REFORM UK Wales

    https://x.com/hazr198/status/1814282672799113304

    Is this genuine?

    There is no account name on it, and the @reformukwales https://x.com/reformukwales account seems to have been defunct since 2021.
    It's a screenshot of a Facebook post, not twitter. I can't see it on the FB page.

    The lack of text in the actual post (rather than the image) is sus.
    Yes- that's how far I've got checking it.

    A tweep said Try Facebook.

    It's very possible, given that the account is a bit mouth-breathing. And it's easy to delete.

    But we need to factcheck both sides.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Michigan PPP

    Biden 44% Trump 44%
    Harris 41% Trump 46%
    Whitmer 46% Trump 45%

    Pennsylvania PPP

    Biden 42% Trump 46%
    Harris 43% Trump 45%
    Shapiro 47% Trump 43%



    https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2024/07/18/so-you-wanted-some-harris-polling-00169524

    Those were conducted before Biden’s covid absence and his latest gaffe .

    He needs to go before he destroys Dems downballot chances . This isn’t just about the Presidency.
    The idea anyone is going to change their mind as Biden has Covid is laughable.

    As that polling shows Harris does no better than Biden, in Michigan she does worse, only Shapiro or Whitmer beat Trump in the 2 key swing states of PA or Michigan
    Biden looks more and more frail. He has no chance of fulfilling another 4 years. What happens after the next debate ?
    It may not take place as it is just before Trump is due to be sentenced
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,659
    mwadams said:

    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?

    Only if you have a MacBook.
    Or you work for a sensible company that didn't buy the "enterprise grade security" kool-aid, and wasn't affected.
    If you haven't had it on for a week I'd imagine it won't have been patched so...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    Andy_JS said:

    This UnHerd article makes the common mistake of stating that until 1998 an MP had to wear a top hat while making a point of order. In fact they only had to wear one if they were raising a point of order during a division, not the rest of the time.

    https://unherd.com/2024/07/our-monarchy-is-an-empty-embarrassment/

    And, of we're going all Chesterton's Fence about it, there was a rationale- if people are moving about, you need a distinctive visible method of signalling.

    (I think they used collapsible top hats so that they could easily frisbee them across the chamber. However, I don't think the top hat bit was mandatory; on at least one occasion, a knotted hanky was used.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like Biden's digging in... What a disaster for the US.

    If the Dem elite are pushing Harris over Whitmer or Shapiro to replace him as candidate he is right to dig in
    Harris seems to be polling worse than Biden but the base would never ever forgive the leadership if they junked the ticket completely. Also black voters would stay at home en masse. So probably Michigan or PA (Or both if neither Whitmer or Shapiro) would be gone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    WRT the chat this morning, a piece comparing JD Vance to a more traditionalist Biden-style Catholic position - around his Senate election in 2022.

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/jd-vance-and-tim-ryan-two-very-different-catholics-vie-power-ohio
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747

    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The CEO of Crowdstrike getting absolutely rinsed on US TV

    He didn't say why their testing procedures weren't adequate on this occasion on the interview I've just watched.
    He doesn't have an answer
    He hired Liz Truss as Chief Tester.
    So many people posted the joke about Liz Truss starting work at Microsoft, LLMs are starting to repost it as fact...
    She should be made a dame for services to disaster recovery.
    ...
    They need to appoint her as some kind of regeneration czar so she can go round improving places like Slough.
    They should appoint her as a scarecrow. Or perhaps a scarepigeon in Trafalgar Square.
    I think her predecessor has got the scarecrow market sown up.
    You may very well be right there.


    Actually it's quite refreshing to see PM Starmer well dressed. I don't know how Sunak managed to look like he'd acquired his suits in a council raffle, but he always did.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    carnforth said:

    There’s a lot of weird shit going on atm, this is right up there. I believe the mooks even spelled the dead fireman’s name wrong on his jacket.


    It is spelled wrongly, but it's the original jacket and has always been spelled wrongly - there's only space for ten characters on a fireman's jacket, apparently.
    Phew.
    Trump with a fanny pad on his ear kissing a fireman’s helmet atop a broomhandle on a trolley would have been totally fcked up if they’d misspelled his name out of ignorance.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114

    The fact so many people think it was nothing is a bloody good indication of how well the IT bods did to limit the impact.

    Absolutely. Back then I was involved in Y2K mitigation at a major UK financial institution and the amount of work done was staggering. Every desktop PC and if I recall correctly around 70% of their server fleet was ripped out and replaced. Every single piece of software had to be tested for compliance and either patched or replaced if it failed.

    They used some very specialist business-critical equipment that turned out not to be compliant (as in instant crash when the date rolled over), could not be replaced in time and was no longer supported by the manufacturer. So an outside team were brought in to extract the firmware from the machine, disassemble it, and hack in support for Y2K dates - my understanding was these guys normally used their skills to crack copy protection on games.

    There were a lot of ducks paddling away to make that serene transition happen.
    Where I did it it was a very diverse environment, and the most pre-compliant thing was a PDP11.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    edited July 19
    How's Jonathan Pie going to cope with a Labour government?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghr2M8mh8MA
  • Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100. When IT crap happens life carries on and people find workarounds.

    A better use for the money would be to assume your IT would pack up one day and work on resilience methods to carry on without it.

    Ah, the idiots view of the millennium bug.

    What actually happened was that a problem was recognised. Testing showed that it was a big problem, for many organisations. A lot of time and effort was spent on fixing the problem.

    As a result of the fixes, the problem didn’t cause a disaster.
    There were some critical systems that needed sorting. However most of the money went on replacing systems of no consequence (in a good few cases unnecessarily) based on general hysteria.

    Things like planes falling from the sky were never going to happen though.

    You know as well as I do that one of the problems of too much process is that it is actually far cheaper to let shit happen and deal with it than pay for all the elaborate processes to stop it.

    Of course half the battle is having people experienced enough to know the difference between what will cause a nuisance and what will cause a catastrophe.

    Even with catastrophes perception rather than reality rules.

    Cut spending on rail safety to the extent that 20 people get killed every two or three years and all hell would break out. **

    However if you did that and used the money to fund additional specialist cancer hospitals it would likely save far more lives.

    ** I am not advocating such a course of action.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Today was supposed to be what happened if the millenium bug wasn't fixed.

    The lesson. The cost of trying to prevent it probably exceeded the cost of it happening by a factor of 100. When IT crap happens life carries on and people find workarounds.

    A better use for the money would be to assume your IT would pack up one day and work on resilience methods to carry on without it.

    Ah, the idiots view of the millennium bug.

    What actually happened was that a problem was recognised. Testing showed that it was a big problem, for many organisations. A lot of time and effort was spent on fixing the problem.

    As a result of the fixes, the problem didn’t cause a disaster.
    There were some critical systems that needed sorting. However most of the money went on replacing systems of no consequence (in a good few cases unnecessarily) based on general hysteria.

    Things like planes falling from the sky were never going to happen though.

    You know as well as I do that one of the problems of too much process is that it is actually far cheaper to let shit happen and deal with it than pay for all the elaborate processes to stop it.

    Of course half the battle is having people experienced enough to know the difference between what will cause a nuisance and what will cause a catastrophe.

    Even with catastrophes perception rather than reality rules.

    Cut spending on rail safety to the extent that 20 people get killed every two or three years and all hell would break out. **

    However if you did that and used the money to fund additional specialist cancer hospitals it would likely save far more lives.

    ** I am not advocating such a course of action.
    Anyone can argue anything they like - perhaps prefaced with "you know as well as I do" as a rhetorical flourish - so long as they don't have to support their views with any form of evidence.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    edited July 19

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
  • Scott_xP said:

    mwadams said:

    So, I've been off work all week.

    Just got back home.

    Do I turn on my work laptop to see what happens?

    Only if you have a MacBook.
    Or you work for a sensible company that didn't buy the "enterprise grade security" kool-aid, and wasn't affected.
    Well, let's say, for example, you are a large International concern, that has "enterprise grade security" from an established vendor like, say, Symantec, and despite that you get hit with ransonware because Symantec has no protection against the attack vector they used, so you hire some security consultants who say the way to avoid that specific issue again is to install Crowdstrike on all of your assets.

    Hypothetically, if that were to happen, then today, you're fucked...
    If you buy software named after a Rail Union Leader and his favourite pastime, what did you expect to happen?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    edited July 19

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    How much Bitcoin could the state mine with data centres for the excess power 8) ?

    And because it's wind it's zero(ish) carbon...

    Maybe Ed is a secret crypto-bro.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743

    Andy_JS said:

    This UnHerd article makes the common mistake of stating that until 1998 an MP had to wear a top hat while making a point of order. In fact they only had to wear one if they were raising a point of order during a division, not the rest of the time.

    https://unherd.com/2024/07/our-monarchy-is-an-empty-embarrassment/

    And, of we're going all Chesterton's Fence about it, there was a rationale- if people are moving about, you need a distinctive visible method of signalling.

    (I think they used collapsible top hats so that they could easily frisbee them across the chamber. However, I don't think the top hat bit was mandatory; on at least one occasion, a knotted hanky was used.)
    My BBC Guide to Parliament (1979) says the rule was that the head should be "covered", and mentions the collapsible hats kept for that purpose.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    On our way:

    "Since 2010, electricity imports’ share of the UK’s electricity supply has increased, up from 2.0 per cent in 2010 to 9.1 per cent in 2021.

    As of March 2022, the UK has seven international interconnectors with a total capacity of 7,440 MW, an almost three-fold increase in capacity since 2010. In the 2020 Energy White Paper, the Government set an ambition of 18 GW of interconnector capacity by 2030, with new interconnectors set to connect the UK to Germany and Denmark."
  • MattW said:

    WRT the chat this morning, a piece comparing JD Vance to a more traditionalist Biden-style Catholic position - around his Senate election in 2022.

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/jd-vance-and-tim-ryan-two-very-different-catholics-vie-power-ohio

    Vance is the traditionalist "Rad Trad" Catholic. Biden is the "progressive" (cakeism on Abortion and Contraception etc., God Loves you crap kumbayah liturgies).
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    edited July 19
    carnforth said:

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    On our way:

    "Since 2010, electricity imports’ share of the UK’s electricity supply has increased, up from 2.0 per cent in 2010 to 9.1 per cent in 2021.

    As of March 2022, the UK has seven international interconnectors with a total capacity of 7,440 MW, an almost three-fold increase in capacity since 2010. In the 2020 Energy White Paper, the Government set an ambition of 18 GW of interconnector capacity by 2030, with new interconnectors set to connect the UK to Germany and Denmark."
    It would be nice to see increases in exports as well as imports, at different times, obvs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Stupid question but if it isn't stored somewhere, where does it all go?

    I vaguely recall something complicated about using frequency to balance it from physics at school.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 19

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    The imputed value of power not pruduced that could have been produced without cost if there had been somewhere to put the electricity.

    The bigger issue mentioned is the knackeredness of gas generation stations and the legal trench warfare the climate change act etc enables if any attempt to replace them is made.
  • Eabhal said:

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Stupid question but if it isn't stored somewhere, where does it all go?

    I vaguely recall something complicated about using frequency to balance it from physics at school.
    Nowhere, they stop the turbines going round and open circuit the solar panels to stop it being generated.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    Eabhal said:

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Stupid question but if it isn't stored somewhere, where does it all go?

    I vaguely recall something complicated about using frequency to balance it from physics at school.
    I'm no expert, but I imagine you just wouldn't generate it. That is, you'd feather the blades or put the brakes on or whatever they do to stop wind turbines from generating electricity.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    This comment by @MrBedfordshire from yesterday intrigues me:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:



    Interesting piece in the NYT on how Trump has sidelined social conservatives in the Republican party:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/18/us/politics/trump-gop-platform-convention.html

    JD Vance though.
    He is a traditionalist "Latin Mass" Catholic. More Jacob Rees Mogg than evangelical hardliner. A very big difference
    The current MAGA movement, linked to what is termed "Christian Nationalism", has some of its roots in movements such as "Dominionism" and "Christian Reconstructionism".

    I first met "Christian Reconstructionism", which briefly is an ideology that modern society should be patterned after what the proponents claim to be 'biblical norms' (TLDR: imo the claim is a theological delusion alongside Young Earth Creationism) in the late 1980s, when I was seeking to understand what in the UK was called the "House Church Movement" whilst at Uni in Bradford, where one of the major groups was based (then called "Harvestime", lead by an 'Apostle' called Bryn Jones).

    In a theological-sociological study by a great writer called Dr Andrew Walker, it was characterised as something UK based New Church leaders "would not fall for", due to it's political and nationalist elements. He was right; they didn't.

    I wouldn't normally expect Roman Catholics to fall for this stuff; they are immersed in a comprehensive and flexible tradition, and therefore have some checks and balances inside their heads almost from the cradle. There are exceptions where sections of the Church - especially renewal movements - can go rogue, but they are rare.

    In the UK CofE and Evangelicals are in some ways similar - there is enough interlinking and debate / dialogue that going wholly off the rails is more difficult. Even the Bugbrooke Community, aka "Jesus Army", did not entirely lose its roots.

    But USA Evangelicalism is fissiparous, almost in "Peoples Front of Judea" style - and can therefore more easily create unstable, narrowly based, ideological silos. Then American entrepreneurialism can do much of the rest. And the place is big enough and rich enough for such splinter groups to create self-sustaining movements.

    So how and why did RCs such as JD Vance get into these worldviews?
    Even in the UK many Baptists and Pentecostals would hold views supportive of Christian Reconstructionism
    I can give a short or a very long answer to that :smile: .

    I'll give it you at the edges and in particular circles, but I don't think there is much of an embrace here of state interference in private life, especially for Baptists - as their history and formation is of being persecuted by the State.

    Most UK Baptists are anti abortion and anti same sex marriage
    You can be as against same-sex marriage as you like if you're talking about your own marriage plans.

    If you think same-sex marriage should be outlawed for everyone else on the basis of your personal religious beliefs, then you need either to come up with a reason why those religious beliefs should be imposed on people who don't share them, or a non-religious argument why it shouldn't be allowed.
    In fairness to @HYUFD he is not stating his view, just a fact. I believe (he will correct me if I am wrong) he is not anti gay marriage nor abortion (within certain parameters).
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