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Barack Obama has moved the Betfair market – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,900
    dixiedean said:

    Handed in my notice.
    Came to the conclusion (it hasn't been sudden), that I'm violating the principle of ahimsa.
    I'm helping make a totally immoral system function, and merely mitigating its failings.
    And have been deceiving myself that, because I'm extremely good at it, and therefore any conceived alternative person would be worse, then that is "helping".
    That's the slippery moral slope that can lead to genocide.

    I understand your position. I have lost a number of colleagues for similar reasons. It is very stressful to work in unsafe conditions knowing that if the turd hits the fan then staff shortages or inadequate support will not be acceptable excuses.

    Any plans for what's next?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    Biden now 34 for election winner, 9 for nominee.

    Looks like he will stand down at the weekend.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    Scott_xP said:

    @MarkHalperin
    BREAKING NEWS: Multiples sources outline the apparent state of play on Biden at this time:

    * plans to announce withdrawal from nomination as early as this weekend, with Sunday most likely

    * Jon Meacham polishing up remarks

    * Biden with NOT resign the presidency

    * Biden will NOT endorse Harris

    * open convention with Harris and about 3 others

    * super delegates will not be allowed to vote on 1st ballot

    * Harris is vetting at least four possible running mates, including Andy Beshear and possibly Shapiro

    https://x.com/MarkHalperin/status/1814049842790006837

    NOT what you'd call an impeccable OR un-impeachable source.

    However, very interesting none-the-less.

    Doubtful that "open convention" would be a typical Democratic donnybrook, with anyone but Harris emerging on top.

    As for VP picks, Gov. Josh Shapiro of PA would be above-average contender for VP, would put him slightly ahead of Gov. Andy Beshear of KY.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,452
    Posted earlier, if he was smart, Biden would announce at 8pm tonight
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,654
    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    In my defence - I have been in the pub all night.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,006
    edited July 18

    So, when is Govey going on Strictly then?

    Reckon that Liz Truss would be the show's preferred recruit. Or maybe SRJ-M?
    Here's your list of sensible candidates, officers of the Dance APPG. They seem to like their Chairs:

    Chair Luke Pollard Labour (Co-op)
    Co-Chair Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie Conservative
    Vice Chair Mrs Sharon Hodgson Labour
    Co-Chair Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury Liberal Democrat
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 18

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like it's kicking off in Harehill, Leeds.

    Any insight why?
    Social workers went to remove children from a Romanian (probably) family and it escalated from there.
    https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/statement-large-police-presence-harehills-leeds
    Any reason why you think it's probably a Romanian family?
    https://x.com/NewsNowYorks/status/1814039773604098162?t=IZBwuuR_6arNAqHHhlMraQ&s=19.

    https://x.com/Iftikhar_860/status/1814015562139189562?t=e3pqfvLm2ZO3QxTx8qCjLA&s=19
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,552
    dixiedean said:

    Handed in my notice.
    Came to the conclusion (it hasn't been sudden), that I'm violating the principle of ahimsa.
    I'm helping make a totally immoral system function, and merely mitigating its failings.
    And have been deceiving myself that, because I'm extremely good at it, and therefore any conceived alternative person would be worse, then that is "helping".
    That's the slippery moral slope that can lead to genocide.

    Good luck.
    Just done something similar though perhaps not quite the same moral quandary as yours. Nervous making but hoping the relief kicks in soon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,061
    The GOP woman on Newsnight is a steamer.
    So fairly representative of the party.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283


    With due respect, think your surmise that Black voter would NOT be bothered IF Kamala Harris was passed over; methinks that's a damn-sight riskier than keeping OR ditching Joe Biden.

    There's a reason beyond just making history, behind JB's original pledge to pick an African American woman. The "woman" part appealed to a sizable share of women voters, especially Democrats (plus WAS historic); the "Black" part appealed to an even larger share of African American women AND men.

    Further note that it was the BLACK voters of South Carolina who saved Biden in early 2020 with Democratic voters in subsequent primaries (including myself) essentially ratifying their decision.

    This is true, but I think that it's interesting that Jim Clyburn, who seems to be the person who requested that Joe pick a Black woman in the first place, seems to have endorsed a mini-primary rather than a Kamala coronation.


    Also note that elected & pledged Joe Biden delegates & alternates, are effectively Biden-Harris delegates, seeing as how his entire campaign, including massive advertising on plethora of media, has been predicated on re-electing Biden AND Harris as a team.

    The delegates are effectively Biden-Harris delegates until Biden tells them to be Somebody-Else delegates. At that point if it's not bonkers they'll go along with it.

    His media spending has been premised on reelecting Biden, unfortunately whatever message they've been spending money on doesn't seem to be winning and in any case you'd want a different message for Kamala.


    Personally think that EITHER Biden OR Harris can beat Trump this November; they could also both lose. But what I think is incontrovertible, is that Democrats can NOT win IF Black turnout falls from (even) 2020 levels. NOT the White House, nor Congress, or some key state races for Governor, legislature and other offices.

    This comes back to: What is the actual evidence that post-Obama Black voters are mainly motivated by wanting a Black president. It's not in their primary voting record, they went for Biden. We never got to see how Cory Booker would have done if he'd carried on until South Carolina because he dropped out before he got that far but he and his donors how to read polls, if there had been a decent amount of Black support there he'd have stayed in the race. And like I say, Jim Clyburn seems to be mini-primary-curious.


    BTW, is "$POPULAR_FORMER_GOVERNOR" an actual person?

    Come to think of it no, I should have said $POPULAR_CURRENTLY_SERVING_GOVERNOR. Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Beshear, Jared Polis, Josh Shapiro...
    Personally think your underestimating Black voter, pundit, politico reaction to dissing let alone ditching Harris. BUT looks like we'er gonna find out.

    Also believe that it would be counter-productive for Biden to try to "instruct" his delegates to vote for whomever. Many would be offended at a lame-duck attempting to dictate their decision.

    As for the "open" convention, good idea BUT am doubtful just how much wiggle room their really is, realistically, for anybody BUT Harris.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,547
    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,676
    Scott_xP said:

    Not entirely their fault, but also not entirely wrong...

    @stuartpstevens

    If reports prove accurate, Republicans will have made history by spending an entire convention attacking a candidate not in the race.

    Genius, guys. Just genius.

    It is the risk in running a campaign fuelled almost entirely on hatred. However, it's worth remembering that, even when the faculties go, the instincts remain. And Joseph R Biden has always had political instincts.

    Let them lunge for you, then walk away while they are mid-lunge.

    (Not saying that Plan A wasn't Four More Years, or that the Presidential Establishment stuck with that plan too long when medical events overtook it. But the sweet spot to manage the process is for Biden to walk just after the Republican convention, just before the Democrat one.)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,167
    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
    Am I the only person who actually likes her?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,006
    MattW said:

    So, when is Govey going on Strictly then?

    Reckon that Liz Truss would be the show's preferred recruit. Or maybe SRJ-M?
    Here's your list of sensible candidates, officers of the Dance APPG. They seem to like their Chairs:

    Chair Luke Pollard Labour (Co-op)
    Co-Chair Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie Conservative
    Vice Chair Mrs Sharon Hodgson Labour
    Co-Chair Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury Liberal Democrat
    Add Rishi Sunk and Jeremy Hunt, I guess. The former because he'll be gone from Parliament by the time they film it, and the latter because well ... we know.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkFOSZ00Pn4
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,547
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
    Am I the only person who actually likes her?
    I don’t have a particular view of her other than I think Trump would make mince meat of her. It needs a clean break from this administration to beat him.
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    Biden drifting hard now.

    8.8 for democrat nominee, the end is nigh
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    edited July 18
    O/T

    I hope Mr Meeks (who used to post on here) doesn't mind if I post his two most recent pieces on here.

    This is his article on how he did wrt election predictions titled "Audit".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/audit-8e1913c2f956

    This is one on the Conservative Party: "Still Falling".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/still-falling-1c2c0dec3e95
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 403
    edited July 18
    If Trump is still layable for POTUS @ 1.5, that's a great bet.

    As I pointed out a few days ago.

    Anyone logged into BF, what's the current odds?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,557


    With due respect, think your surmise that Black voter would NOT be bothered IF Kamala Harris was passed over; methinks that's a damn-sight riskier than keeping OR ditching Joe Biden.

    There's a reason beyond just making history, behind JB's original pledge to pick an African American woman. The "woman" part appealed to a sizable share of women voters, especially Democrats (plus WAS historic); the "Black" part appealed to an even larger share of African American women AND men.

    Further note that it was the BLACK voters of South Carolina who saved Biden in early 2020 with Democratic voters in subsequent primaries (including myself) essentially ratifying their decision.

    This is true, but I think that it's interesting that Jim Clyburn, who seems to be the person who requested that Joe pick a Black woman in the first place, seems to have endorsed a mini-primary rather than a Kamala coronation.


    Also note that elected & pledged Joe Biden delegates & alternates, are effectively Biden-Harris delegates, seeing as how his entire campaign, including massive advertising on plethora of media, has been predicated on re-electing Biden AND Harris as a team.

    The delegates are effectively Biden-Harris delegates until Biden tells them to be Somebody-Else delegates. At that point if it's not bonkers they'll go along with it.

    His media spending has been premised on reelecting Biden, unfortunately whatever message they've been spending money on doesn't seem to be winning and in any case you'd want a different message for Kamala.


    Personally think that EITHER Biden OR Harris can beat Trump this November; they could also both lose. But what I think is incontrovertible, is that Democrats can NOT win IF Black turnout falls from (even) 2020 levels. NOT the White House, nor Congress, or some key state races for Governor, legislature and other offices.

    This comes back to: What is the actual evidence that post-Obama Black voters are mainly motivated by wanting a Black president. It's not in their primary voting record, they went for Biden. We never got to see how Cory Booker would have done if he'd carried on until South Carolina because he dropped out before he got that far but he and his donors how to read polls, if there had been a decent amount of Black support there he'd have stayed in the race. And like I say, Jim Clyburn seems to be mini-primary-curious.


    BTW, is "$POPULAR_FORMER_GOVERNOR" an actual person?

    Come to think of it no, I should have said $POPULAR_CURRENTLY_SERVING_GOVERNOR. Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Beshear, Jared Polis, Josh Shapiro...
    Personally think your underestimating Black voter, pundit, politico reaction to dissing let alone ditching Harris. BUT looks like we'er gonna find out.

    Also believe that it would be counter-productive for Biden to try to "instruct" his delegates to vote for whomever. Many would be offended at a lame-duck attempting to dictate their decision.

    As for the "open" convention, good idea BUT am doubtful just how much wiggle room their really is, realistically, for anybody BUT Harris.
    IDK, you may be right. But I think this is a really unusual situation where the Dems are losing, the consequences of losing are genuinely terrifying, everyone knows a civil war would be damaging, and there's basically no ideological difference between any of the plausible contenders. Everybody wants somebody to lead and get a decision made that will get the party back in the game, and once it's made they'll circle the wagons.

    This is what makes Kamala Harris the most likely winner, but it also means that if the party can get to to some other candidate one way or the other, that will also work.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,609
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
    Am I the only person who actually likes her?
    No.

    But what counts is who the voters in the swing states like.

    Otherwise it is President Trump. It’s that simple.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    moonshine said:

    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
    Am I the only person who actually likes her?
    I don’t have a particular view of her other than I think Trump would make mince meat of her. It needs a clean break from this administration to beat him.
    Think your wrong re: mince-meat making. Also about need for "clean break". But we'll see methinks.

    IF the President withdraws from the race this weekend, then several weeks for polling re: Harris and other possibles for POTUS and also VP.

    Realize there's ALREADY been lots of polls. However, Biden dropping out actually as opposed to potentially creates a Brave New World, not just for pundits but even more so for voters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,452
    @lisaocarroll

    NEW. Zelenskiy to attend UK cabinet meeting on Friday: first foreign leader to do so since Bill Clinton in 1997

    https://x.com/lisaocarroll/status/1814057320311136446
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,313
    edited July 18
    Ah yes good old Barack Obama. Others put their head above the parapet in public or private and say 'Joe, time to go' . Barack says 'he needs to consider the viability of his candidacy' . For fuck sake you all rhetoric, no action prick, just say it straight out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    People Close to Biden Say He Appears to Accept He May Have to Leave the Race

    NY Times breaking

    You read it here first on PB a few hours ago.
    Writing on the wall for many weeks. Have found some of the contortions about how Biden would hang on amusing. Great news if he’s not endorsing Harris.
    Am I the only person who actually likes her?
    She seems okay to me from a political point of view. I don't quite get why she's unpopular with some.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,654

    If Trump is still layable for POTUS @ 1.5, that's a great bet.

    As I pointed out a few days ago.

    Anyone logged into BF, what's the current odds?

    1.6
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,952
    edited July 18
    I doubt Harris would pick Whitmer .

    Whitmer would want to be the Presidential candidate .

    Andy Beshear would be a good running mate , Dem governor of a Red State certainly helps . Ben Shapiro is a magnificent speaker and from a Rust Belt State.

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    @Leon Your Moldova article (or that of your stalker/doppelganger) has made the Silicon Valley discussion site, Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40961971
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    Ton win the presidential election

    Biden 34-1

    Michelle Obama 30-1 on betfair

    Let that sink in. The incumbent president, 3 and 1/2 months before the presidential election who won a basically unto edited primary is (according to odds) less likely to win compared the candidate with zero political experience and who has multiple time completely ruled out ever entering politics.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,557
    Scott_xP said:

    @lisaocarroll

    NEW. Zelenskiy to attend UK cabinet meeting on Friday: first foreign leader to do so since Bill Clinton in 1997

    https://x.com/lisaocarroll/status/1814057320311136446

    Always good to get some fresh perspective on the football governance bill or whatever they're discussing that day.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283


    With due respect, think your surmise that Black voter would NOT be bothered IF Kamala Harris was passed over; methinks that's a damn-sight riskier than keeping OR ditching Joe Biden.

    There's a reason beyond just making history, behind JB's original pledge to pick an African American woman. The "woman" part appealed to a sizable share of women voters, especially Democrats (plus WAS historic); the "Black" part appealed to an even larger share of African American women AND men.

    Further note that it was the BLACK voters of South Carolina who saved Biden in early 2020 with Democratic voters in subsequent primaries (including myself) essentially ratifying their decision.

    This is true, but I think that it's interesting that Jim Clyburn, who seems to be the person who requested that Joe pick a Black woman in the first place, seems to have endorsed a mini-primary rather than a Kamala coronation.


    Also note that elected & pledged Joe Biden delegates & alternates, are effectively Biden-Harris delegates, seeing as how his entire campaign, including massive advertising on plethora of media, has been predicated on re-electing Biden AND Harris as a team.

    The delegates are effectively Biden-Harris delegates until Biden tells them to be Somebody-Else delegates. At that point if it's not bonkers they'll go along with it.

    His media spending has been premised on reelecting Biden, unfortunately whatever message they've been spending money on doesn't seem to be winning and in any case you'd want a different message for Kamala.


    Personally think that EITHER Biden OR Harris can beat Trump this November; they could also both lose. But what I think is incontrovertible, is that Democrats can NOT win IF Black turnout falls from (even) 2020 levels. NOT the White House, nor Congress, or some key state races for Governor, legislature and other offices.

    This comes back to: What is the actual evidence that post-Obama Black voters are mainly motivated by wanting a Black president. It's not in their primary voting record, they went for Biden. We never got to see how Cory Booker would have done if he'd carried on until South Carolina because he dropped out before he got that far but he and his donors how to read polls, if there had been a decent amount of Black support there he'd have stayed in the race. And like I say, Jim Clyburn seems to be mini-primary-curious.


    BTW, is "$POPULAR_FORMER_GOVERNOR" an actual person?

    Come to think of it no, I should have said $POPULAR_CURRENTLY_SERVING_GOVERNOR. Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Beshear, Jared Polis, Josh Shapiro...
    Personally think your underestimating Black voter, pundit, politico reaction to dissing let alone ditching Harris. BUT looks like we'er gonna find out.

    Also believe that it would be counter-productive for Biden to try to "instruct" his delegates to vote for whomever. Many would be offended at a lame-duck attempting to dictate their decision.

    As for the "open" convention, good idea BUT am doubtful just how much wiggle room their really is, realistically, for anybody BUT Harris.
    IDK, you may be right. But I think this is a really unusual situation where the Dems are losing, the consequences of losing are genuinely terrifying, everyone knows a civil war would be damaging, and there's basically no ideological difference between any of the plausible contenders. Everybody wants somebody to lead and get a decision made that will get the party back in the game, and once it's made they'll circle the wagons.

    This is what makes Kamala Harris the most likely winner, but it also means that if the party can get to to some other candidate one way or the other, that will also work.
    The whole Democratic "civil war" meme is WAY overblown, that is FAR more theoretical than actual, especially with Biden out of the race.

    Agree with the rest of your comment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,654
    Welcome to government...


    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    33m
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557

    Welcome to government...


    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    33m
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.

    Richard Burgon has tweeted he is on the way....vibes of Gazza / Raol Moat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514

    Welcome to government...


    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    33m
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.

    It must be a shock to suddenly have responsibility for things like this. I hope they manage to sort the situation out.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,279
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Handed in my notice.
    Came to the conclusion (it hasn't been sudden), that I'm violating the principle of ahimsa.
    I'm helping make a totally immoral system function, and merely mitigating its failings.
    And have been deceiving myself that, because I'm extremely good at it, and therefore any conceived alternative person would be worse, then that is "helping".
    That's the slippery moral slope that can lead to genocide.

    I understand your position. I have lost a number of colleagues for similar reasons. It is very stressful to work in unsafe conditions knowing that if the turd hits the fan then staff shortages or inadequate support will not be acceptable excuses.

    Any plans for what's next?
    Had an interview somewhere else. Seemed to go well.
    We'll see
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,279

    dixiedean said:

    Handed in my notice.
    Came to the conclusion (it hasn't been sudden), that I'm violating the principle of ahimsa.
    I'm helping make a totally immoral system function, and merely mitigating its failings.
    And have been deceiving myself that, because I'm extremely good at it, and therefore any conceived alternative person would be worse, then that is "helping".
    That's the slippery moral slope that can lead to genocide.

    Good luck.
    Just done something similar though perhaps not quite the same moral quandary as yours. Nervous making but hoping the relief kicks in soon.
    Slept all last weekend. And actually dreamed.
    Free.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    Not sure these prison sentences are warranted.

    https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1813950399982039360
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    edited July 18
    Andy_JS said:

    Not sure these prison sentences are warranted.

    https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1813950399982039360

    The leader of the eco-fascists has been found guilty numerous times and given a suspended sentence each time. He finally ran out of road.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    edited July 18

    Welcome to government...


    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    33m
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.

    Richard Burgon has tweeted he is on the way....vibes of Gazza / Raol Moat.
    Bad luck that the area is represented by one of the useless MPs in the HoC imo.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    nico679 said:

    I doubt Harris would pick Whitmer .

    Whitmer would want to be the Presidential candidate .

    Andy Beshear would be a good running mate , Dem governor of a Red State certainly helps . Ben Shapiro is a magnificent speaker and from a Rust Belt State.

    Why woudn't Harris pick Whitmer? Who is from a Rust Belt Battleground state, like Shapiro of PA, and has been re-elected.

    As for wanting to be POTUS candidate, well sure. However, politicos who actually refuse VP nomination are, historically speaking, the exception and NOT the rule.

    Beshear might help some in GA, VA & NC but would NOT help carry his home state of KY, or anything else South of the Mason-Dixon line.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    edited July 18
    Andy_JS said:

    Welcome to government...


    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    ·
    33m
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.

    Richard Burgon has tweeted he is on the way....vibes of Gazza / Raol Moat.
    Bad luck that the area is represented by one of the useless MPs in the HoC imo.
    It is also represented by the councillor Mothin Ali,

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/07/green-party-mothin-ali-allahu-akbar-islamophobia-election/
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,313
    I'm surprised Pete Buttigieg doesnt come into the speculation picture as a VP pick if Harris goes forward. Not too east coast, not west coast.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    Yokes said:

    Ah yes good old Barack Obama. Others put their head above the parapet in public or private and say 'Joe, time to go' . Barack says 'he needs to consider the viability of his candidacy' . For fuck sake you all rhetoric, no action prick, just say it straight out.

    These kinds of things are NOT done via strident statements.

    Which is why Trumpworld IS issuing strident statements, hoping to derail Biden's withdrawl.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,197

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like it's kicking off in Harehill, Leeds.

    Any insight why?
    Social workers went to remove children from a Romanian (probably) family and it escalated from there.
    https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/statement-large-police-presence-harehills-leeds
    Any reason why you think it's probably a Romanian family?
    I read it somewhere while trying to answer the original query.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,313

    Yokes said:

    Ah yes good old Barack Obama. Others put their head above the parapet in public or private and say 'Joe, time to go' . Barack says 'he needs to consider the viability of his candidacy' . For fuck sake you all rhetoric, no action prick, just say it straight out.

    These kinds of things are NOT done via strident statements.

    Which is why Trumpworld IS issuing strident statements, hoping to derail Biden's withdrawl.
    I just think Obama is full of it. He needs to stop sending his missives out via surrogates and either call it himself or go see Biden.

    Not a bit of wonder Putin drove into Ukraine in 2014 when thats what he was up against.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,654
    Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,279

    Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    When your (HS2) train gets lost.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    Yokes said:

    I'm surprised Pete Buttigieg doesnt come into the speculation picture as a VP pick if Harris goes forward. Not too east coast, not west coast.

    I agree that lack of much mention (yet) of Buttigieg is rather surprising.

    Though personally think he lacks acute political instincts. For example, WHY didn't the freaking Transportation Secretary go to that massive train derailment in his own Midwest backyard?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,609

    Scott_xP said:

    @lisaocarroll

    NEW. Zelenskiy to attend UK cabinet meeting on Friday: first foreign leader to do so since Bill Clinton in 1997

    https://x.com/lisaocarroll/status/1814057320311136446

    Always good to get some fresh perspective on the football governance bill or whatever they're discussing that day.
    His input on Leeds might be interesting.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    edited July 18
    Empire Holidays' official Instagram account posted a message saying: "It is with a heavy heart that we inform you that the owner of Empire Holidays [Farooq] has sadly passed away."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0xje5l4znvo

    What a very strange travel agent, that has no active website, does bugger all business according to companies house and has bugger all employees and seems to just tweet about Free-ing Palestine and their tiktok account directs you to a totally different travel agent.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Ah yes good old Barack Obama. Others put their head above the parapet in public or private and say 'Joe, time to go' . Barack says 'he needs to consider the viability of his candidacy' . For fuck sake you all rhetoric, no action prick, just say it straight out.

    These kinds of things are NOT done via strident statements.

    Which is why Trumpworld IS issuing strident statements, hoping to derail Biden's withdrawl.
    I just think Obama is full of it. He needs to stop sending his missives out via surrogates and either call it himself or go see Biden.

    Not a bit of wonder Putin drove into Ukraine in 2014 when thats what he was up against.
    Can understand your antipathy, but doesn't alter fact that Barack Obama is a HUGELY influential figure at this juncture.

    OR that he's in a better position to gauge WHEN and HOW to deploy his influence, on Joe (and Jill) as well as other Democrats.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,322
    Of course it was Obama who persuaded Biden not to run in 2016 and let Hillary run instead and we all know how that turned out. If the Democrats are stupid enough to replace Biden with Harris then ‘Make America Great once Again!’ because four more years of Trump is all but inevitable!!
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 956

    Yvette Cooper
    @YvetteCooperMP
    I am appalled at the shocking scenes and attacks on police vehicles & public transport in Leeds tonight. Disorder of this nature has no place in our society.

    My thanks go to West Yorkshire police for their response. I am being kept regularly updated.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,557
    HYUFD said:

    Of course it was Obama who persuaded Biden not to run in 2016 and let Hillary run instead and we all know how that turned out. If the Democrats are stupid enough to replace Biden with Harris then ‘Make America Great once Again!’ because four more years of Trump is all but inevitable!!

    Non-trivial chance that this is also Joe Biden's view. >11% chance that the markets are overestimating the influence he has and Jill and Joe will just be like, "nope, not listening to you again"?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,547

    HYUFD said:

    Of course it was Obama who persuaded Biden not to run in 2016 and let Hillary run instead and we all know how that turned out. If the Democrats are stupid enough to replace Biden with Harris then ‘Make America Great once Again!’ because four more years of Trump is all but inevitable!!

    Non-trivial chance that this is also Joe Biden's view. >11% chance that the markets are overestimating the influence he has and Jill and Joe will just be like, "nope, not listening to you again"?
    Do you believe that within an hour or so of it leaking that Pelosi and Co asked him to leave, he realised he had covid? He is done.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,602

    Andy_JS said:

    Not sure these prison sentences are warranted.

    https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1813950399982039360

    The leader of the eco-fascists has been found guilty numerous times and given a suspended sentence each time. He finally ran out of road.
    And the other four?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,283
    Notion that Barack Obama solely persuaded Joe Biden to NOT run for POTUS in 2016, is parrot poop.

    Ditto that former POTUS's views will be dissed by his successor.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    edited July 18

    Andy_JS said:

    Not sure these prison sentences are warranted.

    https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1813950399982039360

    The leader of the eco-fascists has been found guilty numerous times and given a suspended sentence each time. He finally ran out of road.
    And the other four?
    Well Lucia Whittaker De Abreu has previous convictions for the same shit. Blocking oil terminals, then breaking the injuction against blocking the oil terminal. Cressie Gethin, been to prison already for previous actions. As has Louise Lancaster. Its a small group of people who continuously break the law. They have tried fines, tried suspended sentences, tried short sentences. They are repeat offenders.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,137
    Going to be very painful for me bettingwise if Biden pulls out, but gotta hold my hand up and say I got this market totally wrong. Could easily have cashed out for a decent profit at almost any time in last 9 months...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,353
    edited July 18
    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    If this carries on tomorrow evening, or spreads elsewhere, it makes for a very short honeymoon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    If this carries on tomorrow evening, or spreads elsewhere, it makes for a very short honeymoon.
    I doubt it will spread. It appears to be a very specific local grievance.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    edited July 18
    More video of a police car being overturned in Leeds yesterday.

    https://x.com/NormanBrennan/status/1814012539635728849
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 956
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    If this carries on tomorrow evening, or spreads elsewhere, it makes for a very short honeymoon.
    Especially since the Home Secretary's seat is itself near Leeds city and in Leeds council
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,049
    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    JSO taking the news well

    /s
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,709
    When I see events like those in Leeds, I sometimes wonder if Judge Dredd isn’t the right answer after all. Crack some heads and teach the buggers a lesson.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,181
    Nunu5 said:

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    If this carries on tomorrow evening, or spreads elsewhere, it makes for a very short honeymoon.
    Especially since the Home Secretary's seat is itself near Leeds city and in Leeds council
    To correct, entirely in Wakefield council area.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,514
    edited July 19
    Rachel Reeves, Hilary Benn, Alex Sobel and Richard Burgon are all MPs in Leeds, quite well known figures, and Yvette Cooper's seat is only about 10 miles away, as mentioned already. It'll be interesting to see what they all say about this tomorrow.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,389

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    If this carries on tomorrow evening, or spreads elsewhere, it makes for a very short honeymoon.
    I doubt it will spread. It appears to be a very specific local grievance.
    So was the shooting of Mark Duggan…
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 447

    Scott_xP said:

    @lisaocarroll

    NEW. Zelenskiy to attend UK cabinet meeting on Friday: first foreign leader to do so since Bill Clinton in 1997

    https://x.com/lisaocarroll/status/1814057320311136446

    Always good to get some fresh perspective on the football governance bill or whatever they're discussing that day.
    His input on Leeds might be interesting.
    Zinchenko in for Firpo? Like it.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,557
    Andy_JS said:

    "Police car flipped over and bus on fire in Leeds as riots break out"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/leeds-riot-harehills-police-car-overturned/

    Biden fans not taking this lying down.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,624
    Reawakening the cycling debates:

    "Video of a collision between two cyclists at the level crossing on the train lines at Grove Park Terrace has been published by Network Rail."

    https://x.com/ediz1975/status/1813646958986440959
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,284
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I hope Mr Meeks (who used to post on here) doesn't mind if I post his two most recent pieces on here.

    This is his article on how he did wrt election predictions titled "Audit".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/audit-8e1913c2f956

    This is one on the Conservative Party: "Still Falling".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/still-falling-1c2c0dec3e95

    Wise words
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,527

    Scott_xP said:

    Off topic: What is it about big corporate purchasing departments? Kit is specced by people who will never use them. Or meet the people who do use them!

    Big client requires that I use one of their machines to access SAP which the current phase of the project I’m working on requires. So they ship me a laptop. From Spain. With a Spanish language keyboard.

    Had to present a slide deck to corporate team so will use the thing (diplomacy - otherwise it’s purely for SAP and my company’s MacBook does the heavy lifting).

    We’ll say nothing about the crippled Windows build they have installed on it. And poke a finger at a matte screen with about 5 nits of brightness. Which doesn’t matter if it’s docked. As they are in Madrid or Lyon. But less useful in the field. Which anywhere not in an office is…

    I've been a Mac user for 35 years. Windows has, indirectly, made me a small fortune. I recall the agony of a fellow commuter when he opened his PC to add the finishing touches to an important presentation, only for Bill Gates to brick his laptop for the entire journey by installing an obligatory upgrade.
    Yes, corporate Windows is very good at booting me out of sessions with no option to delay.

    I genuinely don’t get Windows. Then again I’ve been increasingly of that mindset for years
    The choice is mandatory inconvenient reboots, or ransomware !!
    Perfectly possible to have convenient, scheduled reboots instead.

    If its mandatory, inconvenient ones the issue is the administrator not Windows.
    On a properly-managed corporate Windows, yes in theory. The problems generally come when there’s a bunch of conflicting settings, say your laptop is told to reboot at 1am but it’s always hibernated at 1am, and regularly not actually rebooted for weeks at a time. Perhaps also people regularly work from home but their laptop is configured with an office profile. Eventually Windows gets fed up with this and just randomly reboots to install the updates.

    It’s actually quite difficult to manage if the users do things in a different way to what MS expects. The best way to do it, it do have a ‘Windows patch week’ every six months, and tell everyone with a laptop to reboot it when connected to the network.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    The Israeli military said it was investigating an apparent drone attack that killed one person in central Tel Aviv in the early hours of Friday but which did not trigger the air raid sirens.

    The explosion occurred hours after the Israeli military confirmed it had killed a senior commander of the Iran-backed Hezbollah militia in southern Lebanon.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/19/tel-aviv-us-embassy-explosion-latest-news-israel-hamas/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,527
    edited July 19

    So, when is Govey going on Strictly then?

    Reckon that Liz Truss would be the show's preferred recruit. Or maybe SRJ-M?
    There’s no way Liz Truss signs up to do that much work for that little money, when she can make millions on the US speaking circuit and get adoration from the many Stateside conservative conferences.

    These reality TV shows are for people who need to raise their profile, not for those who have moved on in life. She’s done with UK politics for at least the next five years.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,624
    For a white non-racist South African, Musky Baby does seem rather preoccupied atm with the colour of people's skin not being white.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,557
    edited July 19
    Sandpit said:

    So, when is Govey going on Strictly then?

    Reckon that Liz Truss would be the show's preferred recruit. Or maybe SRJ-M?
    There’s no way Liz Truss signs up to do that much work for that little money, when she can make millions on the US speaking circuit and get adoration from the many Stateside conservative conferences.

    These reality TV shows are for people who need to raise their profile, not for those who have moved on in life. She’s done with UK politics for at least the next five years.
    Who the bloody hell wants to listen to Liz Lettuce speak? Boris, I can get, you will get some cracking stories (mostly bullshit, but still entertaining). Tessie May, not my cup of tea, but I can see people wanting to know about Brexit negotiations, Boris, etc. But Liz Lettuce, I came, I saw, I failed in a month and it was all because of the deep state.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    nico679 said:

    I doubt Harris would pick Whitmer .

    Whitmer would want to be the Presidential candidate .

    Andy Beshear would be a good running mate , Dem governor of a Red State certainly helps . Ben Shapiro is a magnificent speaker and from a Rust Belt State.

    I’m glad it’s not just me gets confused between Ben Shapiro and Josh Shapiro.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Off topic: What is it about big corporate purchasing departments? Kit is specced by people who will never use them. Or meet the people who do use them!

    Big client requires that I use one of their machines to access SAP which the current phase of the project I’m working on requires. So they ship me a laptop. From Spain. With a Spanish language keyboard.

    Had to present a slide deck to corporate team so will use the thing (diplomacy - otherwise it’s purely for SAP and my company’s MacBook does the heavy lifting).

    We’ll say nothing about the crippled Windows build they have installed on it. And poke a finger at a matte screen with about 5 nits of brightness. Which doesn’t matter if it’s docked. As they are in Madrid or Lyon. But less useful in the field. Which anywhere not in an office is…

    I've been a Mac user for 35 years. Windows has, indirectly, made me a small fortune. I recall the agony of a fellow commuter when he opened his PC to add the finishing touches to an important presentation, only for Bill Gates to brick his laptop for the entire journey by installing an obligatory upgrade.
    Yes, corporate Windows is very good at booting me out of sessions with no option to delay.

    I genuinely don’t get Windows. Then again I’ve been increasingly of that mindset for years
    The choice is mandatory inconvenient reboots, or ransomware !!
    Perfectly possible to have convenient, scheduled reboots instead.

    If its mandatory, inconvenient ones the issue is the administrator not Windows.
    On a properly-managed corporate Windows.
    In the same way that in a Disney film there’s always a happy ending?
  • That is one set of social workers who will be a bit more careful before they start confiscating peoples children.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    Aaaand she’s off:

    The education secretary has also been setting out plans for a wide-ranging review of what is taught in schools in England.
    Launching the curriculum review on Friday, Ms Phillipson said all children should have a strong academic foundation in subjects like English and maths, but also have access to music, art, drama and sports.
    The Department for Education said that, after the review, all state schools will have to follow the national curriculum up to the age of 16, including academies which do not currently have to do so.


    So we have another review of the curriculum, after the last review left us (quite deliberately) with an unworkable mess and dramatically increased teacher workload.

    It depends of course on how they implement it. If they nominate subjects that must be taught and say what’s taught within those is up to schools, that could work.

    If they say ‘you must teach XYZ between 1 and 2 on Thursday afternoons in October’ (which is what happened under Labour last time) then she should reset her target at recruiting 25,000 new teachers to replace the mass exodus.

    My guess is it will be the latter as she is working through the DfE. But we will see.

    As for the broader curriculum, nice idea but where is she going to squeeze it into the timetable given what killed them is the central obsession with core subjects which she is intending to keep?

    So far, so disastrous from her. She looks set to be another Michael Gove.
  • Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    They sort of do come from said subcontinent:

    "Roma (Gypsies) originated in the Punjab region of northern India as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/roma-gypsies-in-prewar-europe#:~:text=Roma (Gypsies) originated in the,tribes" or "nations."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,649
    edited July 19

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I hope Mr Meeks (who used to post on here) doesn't mind if I post his two most recent pieces on here.

    This is his article on how he did wrt election predictions titled "Audit".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/audit-8e1913c2f956

    This is one on the Conservative Party: "Still Falling".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/still-falling-1c2c0dec3e95

    Wise words
    The second one in particular is worth a read. Big picture, the Tories were fine relying on older people, provided that their losses to the cemetery were balanced by people getting more Tory as they aged. This latter has stopped happening; result: big problem.

    As an aside, Labour has a chance to rescue them, by solving the housing crisis for them!

    I also liked this bit:

    For many, Brexit is a shorthand for the bad judgement of Conservative politicians. It is seen as a commonplace that Brexit was a bad idea executed badly. Yet in the medium term Conservative politicians are likely to trumpet as an article of faith whenever the government looks like being pally with Brussels that it was the finest British moment of the 21st century and should not be jeopardised. They will look crackers.

    Many of those who still support Brexit will discard the gateway drug that is the Conservative party and go straight for the opioid that is Reform. After all, weren’t they the ones that betrayed Brexit by failing to implement it with true purity?

    Put another way, the Conservatives face the same challenge that M&S clothing faced, where consumers decided that the designer clothes were nicer and one-wear fashion was cheaper, meaning that the middle ground was the worst of both worlds.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,568
    Good morning, everyone.

    First I've heard of the Harehills stuff. Skimmed, sleepily, a BBC article on it. Didn't see any reference to either who did it, or why, just general disturbances nonsense.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,649
    I’m not sure that Zelensky’s pitch that he wants to kill Russian children in Russian hospitals will be his strongest line with Starmer’s cabinet tbh.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,588
    It's going to be really amusing when Labour have to get tough so to speak.. especially when they have half emptied the prisons.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 19
    Andy_JS said:

    Not sure these prison sentences are warranted.

    https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1813950399982039360

    They say they're non violent protests.

    Tell that to the people who missed hosptial cancer appointments/couldnt pick their kids up/lost work that they use to feed their kids.

    There was violence it jsut didnt appear in plain sight. They are the worst sort of hypocrities hiding behind the 'its' a non violent protest' when quite plainly their actions have violent effects on peoples lives.

    They should consider themselves lucky not to have been on Terrorism charges.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,588
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I hope Mr Meeks (who used to post on here) doesn't mind if I post his two most recent pieces on here.

    This is his article on how he did wrt election predictions titled "Audit".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/audit-8e1913c2f956

    This is one on the Conservative Party: "Still Falling".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/still-falling-1c2c0dec3e95

    Wise words
    The second one in particular is worth a read. Big picture, the Tories were fine relying on older people, provided that their losses to the cemetery were balanced by people getting more Tory as they aged. This latter has stopped happening; result: big problem.

    As an aside, Labour has a chance to rescue them, by solving the housing crisis for them!

    I also liked this bit:

    For many, Brexit is a shorthand for the bad judgement of Conservative politicians. It is seen as a commonplace that Brexit was a bad idea executed badly. Yet in the medium term Conservative politicians are likely to trumpet as an article of faith whenever the government looks like being pally with Brussels that it was the finest British moment of the 21st century and should not be jeopardised. They will look crackers.

    Many of those who still support Brexit will discard the gateway drug that is the Conservative party and go straight for the opioid that is Reform. After all, weren’t they the ones that betrayed Brexit by failing to implement it with true purity?

    Put another way, the Conservatives face the same challenge that M&S clothing faced, where consumers decided that the designer clothes were nicer and one-wear fashion was cheaper, meaning that the middle ground was the worst of both worlds.
    People still get more Tory. The problem is they dont like the Party and the direction it took... and tgat they became more interested in themselves than the people they served.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,181

    Good morning, everyone.

    First I've heard of the Harehills stuff. Skimmed, sleepily, a BBC article on it. Didn't see any reference to either who did it, or why, just general disturbances nonsense.

    From the video, a cross section of those resident in the area and who would be up for a riot.

    There were white rioters, Asian rioters, the trigger seems to have been a, very possibly correct, social services intervention on what is reported to be a Romanian family.

    This is one area where I think the government handbook is very established. However much the police held back on the night, there is loads of smart phone and CCTV evidence. Technically, riot act will be invoked and the perpetrators will find they get very rapid priority for court time and, with riot on the charge sheet, and very high priority for those limited prison places for a long time relative to their other charges.

    And the local roughs will know that (insert name here) went down for many years for merely nicking from the shop in the riot.

    Society is well aware it cannot sit back and tolerate this kind of disorder, and it never, ever does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,649
    edited July 19
    This is what Meeks said a year ago, which surely contains food for thinking Tories (if that’s not an oxymoron):

    That’s not even the worst part of what’s coming for the Conservatives. If they are indeed defeated as decisively as I expect, they are going to face an almighty reckoning after the election internally and externally. It is likely that the Conservatives out of office will not be taken seriously by voters again until they have exorcised their Brexitmania from their system (and perhaps not even then). That is likely to take years and possibly decades.

    Moreover, it is likely in those circumstances that a silent lustration will take place, with past support for Brexit becoming in practice a disqualifier for consideration for any senior public sector position (being seen as an indicator of stupidity, lack of judgement or partisan malevolence). The Conservatives having made themselves the party of Brexit, they may well see an evisceration of influence rarely seen by one of the two major parties even in opposition.

    What Meeks didn’t foresee is that the Tories would also have to copy with a rival positioning itself as the party of Real Brexit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,527
    When the antivirus software becomes the virus.

    This is my morning from Hell at the moment.

    https://x.com/jeffmorgannz/status/1814165693883105695
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,900

    Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    They sort of do come from said subcontinent:

    "Roma (Gypsies) originated in the Punjab region of northern India as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/roma-gypsies-in-prewar-europe#:~:text=Roma (Gypsies) originated in the,tribes" or "nations."
    Yes, in the same sense that I come from Germany.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,527
    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    I doubt Harris would pick Whitmer .

    Whitmer would want to be the Presidential candidate .

    Andy Beshear would be a good running mate , Dem governor of a Red State certainly helps . Ben Shapiro is a magnificent speaker and from a Rust Belt State.

    I’m glad it’s not just me gets confused between Ben Shapiro and Josh Shapiro.
    When Bill Barr was the Attourney General, I always got him confused with Bill Burr.

    Barr isn’t as funny.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    Sandpit said:

    When the antivirus software becomes the virus.

    This is my morning from Hell at the moment.

    https://x.com/jeffmorgannz/status/1814165693883105695

    Which antivirus software is it?
  • Foxy said:

    Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    They sort of do come from said subcontinent:

    "Roma (Gypsies) originated in the Punjab region of northern India as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/roma-gypsies-in-prewar-europe#:~:text=Roma (Gypsies) originated in the,tribes" or "nations."
    Yes, in the same sense that I come from Germany.
    Not really, unless you have retained elements of German culture and intermarried with other ethnic Germans.

    More equivalent to the Jewish diaspora.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,650
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Off topic: What is it about big corporate purchasing departments? Kit is specced by people who will never use them. Or meet the people who do use them!

    Big client requires that I use one of their machines to access SAP which the current phase of the project I’m working on requires. So they ship me a laptop. From Spain. With a Spanish language keyboard.

    Had to present a slide deck to corporate team so will use the thing (diplomacy - otherwise it’s purely for SAP and my company’s MacBook does the heavy lifting).

    We’ll say nothing about the crippled Windows build they have installed on it. And poke a finger at a matte screen with about 5 nits of brightness. Which doesn’t matter if it’s docked. As they are in Madrid or Lyon. But less useful in the field. Which anywhere not in an office is…

    I've been a Mac user for 35 years. Windows has, indirectly, made me a small fortune. I recall the agony of a fellow commuter when he opened his PC to add the finishing touches to an important presentation, only for Bill Gates to brick his laptop for the entire journey by installing an obligatory upgrade.
    Yes, corporate Windows is very good at booting me out of sessions with no option to delay.

    I genuinely don’t get Windows. Then again I’ve been increasingly of that mindset for years
    The choice is mandatory inconvenient reboots, or ransomware !!
    Perfectly possible to have convenient, scheduled reboots instead.

    If its mandatory, inconvenient ones the issue is the administrator not Windows.
    On a properly-managed corporate Windows, yes in theory. The problems generally come when there’s a bunch of conflicting settings, say your laptop is told to reboot at 1am but it’s always hibernated at 1am, and regularly not actually rebooted for weeks at a time. Perhaps also people regularly work from home but their laptop is configured with an office profile. Eventually Windows gets fed up with this and just randomly reboots to install the updates.

    It’s actually quite difficult to manage if the users do things in a different way to what MS expects. The best way to do it, it do have a ‘Windows patch week’ every six months, and tell everyone with a laptop to reboot it when connected to the network.
    Would really not want something connected to the internet only being updated once a month. Last client gave you a 4 day window to manually reboot when you want to and that worked reasonably OK (was a great excuse to avoid a 9am scrum meeting if you didn't want to attend).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,649
    edited July 19

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    I hope Mr Meeks (who used to post on here) doesn't mind if I post his two most recent pieces on here.

    This is his article on how he did wrt election predictions titled "Audit".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/audit-8e1913c2f956

    This is one on the Conservative Party: "Still Falling".
    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/still-falling-1c2c0dec3e95

    Wise words
    The second one in particular is worth a read. Big picture, the Tories were fine relying on older people, provided that their losses to the cemetery were balanced by people getting more Tory as they aged. This latter has stopped happening; result: big problem.

    As an aside, Labour has a chance to rescue them, by solving the housing crisis for them!

    I also liked this bit:

    For many, Brexit is a shorthand for the bad judgement of Conservative politicians. It is seen as a commonplace that Brexit was a bad idea executed badly. Yet in the medium term Conservative politicians are likely to trumpet as an article of faith whenever the government looks like being pally with Brussels that it was the finest British moment of the 21st century and should not be jeopardised. They will look crackers.

    Many of those who still support Brexit will discard the gateway drug that is the Conservative party and go straight for the opioid that is Reform. After all, weren’t they the ones that betrayed Brexit by failing to implement it with true purity?

    Put another way, the Conservatives face the same challenge that M&S clothing faced, where consumers decided that the designer clothes were nicer and one-wear fashion was cheaper, meaning that the middle ground was the worst of both worlds.
    People still get more Tory. The problem is they dont like the Party and the direction it took... and tgat they became more interested in themselves than the people they served.
    The evidence suggests otherwise? The age/support graph used to rise steadily for the Tories with age, crossing over with Labour in middle age. Now it stays almost flat at 20% until the 50s, only makes 25% for the 60s, and then rises sharply as the end approacheth. The "missing" chunk compared to decades past is the cadre of people in their 40s to early 60s who used to be solidly Tory - hence the loss of all those 'safe' Home Counties seats.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,900

    Foxy said:

    Nige jets back in from Trump-ville, USA, in order to immediately pass his wisdom on Leeds.

    Has he even ever been to Leeds?



    Nigel Farage MP
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    1h
    The politics of the subcontinent are currently playing out on the streets of Leeds. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

    They sort of do come from said subcontinent:

    "Roma (Gypsies) originated in the Punjab region of northern India as a nomadic people and entered Europe between the eighth and tenth centuries C.E. They were called "Gypsies" because Europeans mistakenly believed they came from Egypt."


    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/roma-gypsies-in-prewar-europe#:~:text=Roma (Gypsies) originated in the,tribes" or "nations."
    Yes, in the same sense that I come from Germany.
    Not really, unless you have retained elements of German culture and intermarried with other ethnic Germans.

    More equivalent to the Jewish diaspora.
    Indeed I have, my language has German roots and my family has intermarried with the descendents of other German and Danish migrants.
This discussion has been closed.