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The majority of voters support changing the voting system – politicalbetting.com

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  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,966

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,188
    Andy_JS said:

    LD 18159
    SNP 15999
    Lab 6246
    Ref 2934
    Con 2502
    Grn 2038
    Soc Equ 178

    LD maj 2160

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/S14000094

    So the final Lab score is 9,704,655 according to the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

    So what on earth have they been doing? Its not even close.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,116

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    I thought last night they said that there was a discrepency between the vote returns and the number of ballot papers?
    Yes. They had difficulty reconciling those numbers, but the result was not in serious doubt, which is why the SNP incumbent conceded yesterday.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    It seems that the gist of the wind kicking match from Dusseldorf so far is that England are marginally less shit than before, but still incapable of scoring a goal so that makes no material difference to anything.

    The loser of this match should be made to watch a full replay of today's action from the Dingwall Counting Centre. If that doesn't act as sufficient incentive to wake up, nothing will.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,450

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    could the Cons or greens have asked to ensure that they got their deposit back?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,438
    edited July 6
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LD 18159
    SNP 15999
    Lab 6246
    Ref 2934
    Con 2502
    Grn 2038
    Soc Equ 178

    LD maj 2160

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/S14000094

    So the final Lab score is 9,704,655 according to the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

    So what on earth have they been doing? Its not even close.
    Ballots were lost.

    ... [ignore, timing is confusing on my source]

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/no-guarantee-the-mismanaged-inverness-skye-and-west-ross-355033/

    Appears RO wouldn't even let them havbe provisional figures, so hard to expect anyone to concede.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 256
    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    I suspect this is based on outdated ideas about the young always being left wing.
    Many years ago, my other half wrote a paper for a Tory think-tank on the problem with generalising from "many young people" to "all young people" and the foolishness of abandoning "the youth vote" on that basis.
    In a lot of ways the left are now the establishment, at least in terms of culture - to a historically unprecedented degree, so the 'young vote' could react against that.
    I think it is even more complicated than that. Who knows what range of views young people will have in 5 years time? What will be the "consensus" views and what the outliers, and whether any or all of those will overlap with existing political blocs?

    Now is a great time for the Conservatives to do their periodic chameleon thing and emerge as a party with the practical politics that inspire and shape the next generation, while Labour have to deal with the messy business of being in government.

    ETA: for the avoidance of doubt, I do not see who is going to kick that process off. But I live in hope.
    My local school (friend is a teacher there) did an election which included pupils and staff. Reform got the most votes and Labour second. Some of the teachers there are mortified.

    It gives me hope for the future, that no mater what indoctrination they've had in their schooling, when given the opportunity they've stuck two fingers up. Nothing more British than that.
    The panic about Reform is just really entertaining. They just seem to drive people completely mad.
    They'll be laying on political education classes which will be "balanced and fair".....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    edited July 6
    spudgfsh said:

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    could the Cons or greens have asked to ensure that they got their deposit back?
    Yes, but the main issue seems to have been that the number of ballot papers in the boxes didn't match up with the number issued at polling stations
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    Dusseldorf latest:

    "This has all got a bit stop-start. Mainly stop."

    More news as we get it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,438
    pigeon said:

    Dusseldorf latest:

    "This has all got a bit stop-start. Mainly stop."

    More news as we get it.

    I thought that referred to Dingwall ...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Cicero said:

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
    Interestingly in the six SLD seats the Tories lost their deposit in 4 and barely held it on under 6% here and in Edinburgh West
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    Dusseldorf latest:

    "This has all got a bit stop-start. Mainly stop."

    More news as we get it.

    I thought that referred to Dingwall ...
    Dingwall has now, definitively, stopped.

    Not yet the case with Dusseldorf, sadly.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 107
    I'm strongly in favour of a more proportional system. But I'm also dead against AV, SV, STV, D'Hondt and anything that involves party lists.

    This is what I'd do:

    700-ish seat parliament, with about 450 constituency MPs elected in exactly the same way as now, PLUS

    250 top-up MPs to make the overall numbers roughly proportional. These 250 are drawn from a 'dynamic' national lists of the highest-polling non-winning candidates (by absolute number of votes) for all of the parties that need topping up.

    The backbenchers amongst the top-up MPs are assigned offices and casework in the geographic seats represented by government and shadow ministers who should be concentrating on stuff other than constituency matters anyway.

    A possible variation of this system could exclude unseated incumbents from the pool of eligible top-up MPs, thus retaining the ability to vote out a specific member.

    (I first proposed this system to former MPs James Gray and Dick Tracey about 25 years ago, around the time of the Jenkins report.)

    Now back to the England game...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    edited July 6
    World no 1 Iga Świątek in trouble at Wimbledon v Yulia Putintseva. 6-3, 1-6, 2-5.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,188
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LD 18159
    SNP 15999
    Lab 6246
    Ref 2934
    Con 2502
    Grn 2038
    Soc Equ 178

    LD maj 2160

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/S14000094

    So the final Lab score is 9,704,655 according to the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

    So what on earth have they been doing? Its not even close.
    Ballots were lost.

    ... [ignore, timing is confusing on my source]

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/no-guarantee-the-mismanaged-inverness-skye-and-west-ross-355033/

    Appears RO wouldn't even let them havbe provisional figures, so hard to expect anyone to concede.
    I thought the SNP candidate conceded yesterday and wasn't even there today because he had a prior unbreakable commitment.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    pigeon said:

    Dusseldorf latest:

    "This has all got a bit stop-start. Mainly stop."

    More news as we get it.

    The pundits have obviously been instructed to be positive despite the evidence of eyes and ears
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    Dusseldorf latest:

    "This has all got a bit stop-start. Mainly stop."

    More news as we get it.

    I thought that referred to Dingwall ...
    Dingwall has now, definitively, stopped.

    Not yet the case with Dusseldorf, sadly.
    They should just leave the Dingwall lectern camera on for the next 5 years as a testament to history.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    edited July 6
    KnightOut said:

    I'm strongly in favour of a more proportional system. But I'm also dead against AV, SV, STV, D'Hondt and anything that involves party lists.

    This is what I'd do:

    700-ish seat parliament, with about 450 constituency MPs elected in exactly the same way as now, PLUS

    250 top-up MPs to make the overall numbers roughly proportional. These 250 are drawn from a 'dynamic' national lists of the highest-polling non-winning candidates (by absolute number of votes) for all of the parties that need topping up.

    The backbenchers amongst the top-up MPs are assigned offices and casework in the geographic seats represented by government and shadow ministers who should be concentrating on stuff other than constituency matters anyway.

    A possible variation of this system could exclude unseated incumbents from the pool of eligible top-up MPs, thus retaining the ability to vote out a specific member.

    (I first proposed this system to former MPs James Gray and Dick Tracey about 25 years ago, around the time of the Jenkins report.)

    Now back to the England game...

    I agree about the horrible-ness of party lists, where the top brass in a party can always get elected by putting themselves at the top. Although there is such a thing as "open lists" where voters can choose themselves who goes at the top of the list.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,188
    An hour of play and the new, improved England have yet to have a shot on target. The Swiss are coming more and more into this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,222
    England latest - kitten has fallen asleep.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,864
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Are the LibDems going to do one of those wanky Shadow Shadow Cabinets?

    Give then their day in the sun. A few weeks ago their entire parliamentary party could fit in a couple of taxis.
    Tories ought to be worrying about their own wanky shadow cabinet rather than other parties' efforts.

    If it's anything like their actual cabinets, then a long period of reflection is in order.
    They could have two alternative Shadow cabinets to suit both wings of the party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,438
    edited July 6
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LD 18159
    SNP 15999
    Lab 6246
    Ref 2934
    Con 2502
    Grn 2038
    Soc Equ 178

    LD maj 2160

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/S14000094

    So the final Lab score is 9,704,655 according to the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results

    So what on earth have they been doing? Its not even close.
    Ballots were lost.

    ... [ignore, timing is confusing on my source]

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/no-guarantee-the-mismanaged-inverness-skye-and-west-ross-355033/

    Appears RO wouldn't even let them havbe provisional figures, so hard to expect anyone to concede.
    I thought the SNP candidate conceded yesterday and wasn't even there today because he had a prior unbreakable commitment.
    I thoiught so too about the concession, but the reports are muddled which is why I edited my post.

    In any case, it was presimably possible in theory that the missing votes were a batch of SNP ones so they had to get to the bottom of it. Also cos of the legal/criminal implications, e,g. having to sign the paperwork in good faith.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    Andy_JS said:

    World no 1 Iga Świątek in trouble at Wimbledon v Yulia Putintseva. 6-3, 1-6, 2-5.

    Well...

    Straight over to BBC2.

    Why didn't I know about this before. Damned football. I blame the excitement of the Dingwall Counting Centre, scrambling my nerves.

    Putintseva wins!!!

    Coco Gauff the new favourite.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    I suspect this is based on outdated ideas about the young always being left wing.
    Many years ago, my other half wrote a paper for a Tory think-tank on the problem with generalising from "many young people" to "all young people" and the foolishness of abandoning "the youth vote" on that basis.
    In a lot of ways the left are now the establishment, at least in terms of culture - to a historically unprecedented degree, so the 'young vote' could react against that.
    I think it is even more complicated than that. Who knows what range of views young people will have in 5 years time? What will be the "consensus" views and what the outliers, and whether any or all of those will overlap with existing political blocs?

    Now is a great time for the Conservatives to do their periodic chameleon thing and emerge as a party with the practical politics that inspire and shape the next generation, while Labour have to deal with the messy business of being in government.

    ETA: for the avoidance of doubt, I do not see who is going to kick that process off. But I live in hope.
    My local school (friend is a teacher there) did an election which included pupils and staff. Reform got the most votes and Labour second. Some of the teachers there are mortified.

    It gives me hope for the future, that no mater what indoctrination they've had in their schooling, when given the opportunity they've stuck two fingers up. Nothing more British than that.
    The panic about Reform is just really entertaining. They just seem to drive people completely mad.
    Which, is probably a big driver of their support.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    Andy_JS said:

    KnightOut said:

    I'm strongly in favour of a more proportional system. But I'm also dead against AV, SV, STV, D'Hondt and anything that involves party lists.

    This is what I'd do:

    700-ish seat parliament, with about 450 constituency MPs elected in exactly the same way as now, PLUS

    250 top-up MPs to make the overall numbers roughly proportional. These 250 are drawn from a 'dynamic' national lists of the highest-polling non-winning candidates (by absolute number of votes) for all of the parties that need topping up.

    The backbenchers amongst the top-up MPs are assigned offices and casework in the geographic seats represented by government and shadow ministers who should be concentrating on stuff other than constituency matters anyway.

    A possible variation of this system could exclude unseated incumbents from the pool of eligible top-up MPs, thus retaining the ability to vote out a specific member.

    (I first proposed this system to former MPs James Gray and Dick Tracey about 25 years ago, around the time of the Jenkins report.)

    Now back to the England game...

    I agree about the horrible-ness of party lists, where the top brass in a party can always get elected by putting themselves at the top. Although there is such a thing as "open lists" where voters can choose themselves who goes at the top of the list.
    If everyone chooses themself, how is anyone ever elected?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992

    On topic SKS doesn't give a fuck what voters think not for another 4.5 years anyway.

    You hope. The ming jar strategy could carry on into government and make him ultra cautious.
    He's got no fat to play with, whatever the seat count.

    Absolutely everything and everyone is up in the air.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    DavidL said:

    An hour of play and the new, improved England have yet to have a shot on target. The Swiss are coming more and more into this.

    Remember this is under the new rules where goals only count in the last few minutes
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    Cicero said:

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
    Maybe you could have a good Lib Dem wank to celebrate, followed by a guilty tepid shower, and then listen to a Tim Farron speech afterwards.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    edited July 6
    At Wimbledon why are the after-match interviewers standing about 5 miles away from the player as if Covid-19 was still a thing?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,188
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    An hour of play and the new, improved England have yet to have a shot on target. The Swiss are coming more and more into this.

    Remember this is under the new rules where goals only count in the last few minutes
    There's a lot to be said for going to penalties now. It already looks inevitable.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    Watching paint dry would be more entertaining than the football at this tournament.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,716
    Cicero said:

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
    Massive Unionist tactical voting, which is why a healthy 30% vote share only gave the SNP 9 seats.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    Oops
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,528
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    An hour of play and the new, improved England have yet to have a shot on target. The Swiss are coming more and more into this.

    Remember this is under the new rules where goals only count in the last few minutes
    There's a lot to be said for going to penalties now. It already looks inevitable.
    Ahem....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003
    SHIT!!!!!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Fucking Jonah Starmer
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 108
    Since when, and in what sense, did STV become a party list system?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,528
    Andy_JS said:

    At Wimbledon why are the after-match interviewers standing about 5 miles away from the player as if Covid-19 was still a thing?

    Covid IS still a thing!
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,010
    edited July 6
    Andy_JS said:

    Watching paint dry would be more entertaining than the football at this tournament.

    It's a great advertisement for women's football, though. The ladies rarely leave the field without scoring 5 or maybe 10 goals. That's what the fans want. Not two unassailable defensive walls.

    Edited to add: oops.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 387
    Oh dear oh dear
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,372
    What an effing shock !
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    World no 1 Iga Świątek in trouble at Wimbledon v Yulia Putintseva. 6-3, 1-6, 2-5.

    Well...

    Straight over to BBC2.

    Why didn't I know about this before. Damned football. I blame the excitement of the Dingwall Counting Centre, scrambling my nerves.

    Putintseva wins!!!

    Coco Gauff the new favourite.
    The principal remaining seeds in the Ladies' draw are Rybakina (4) in the top half and Gauff (2) in the bottom half. It's also opened right up for Raducanu: a qualifier in R4 with the guarantee of an unseeded opponent as well if she makes the QF. More dodgy wrist issues or tripping over shoelaces permitting.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003

    Fucking Jonah Starmer

    Gareth Sunak :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,462
    agingjb2 said:

    Since when, and in what sense, did STV become a party list system?

    Since Labour ditched the proposed model of STV for Senedd elections in favour of closed party lists so all would worship at the shrine of the leadership.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,966

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    Taz said:

    What an effing shock !

    Not. Oh well, the agony will soon be over.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    World no 1 Iga Świątek in trouble at Wimbledon v Yulia Putintseva. 6-3, 1-6, 2-5.

    Well...

    Straight over to BBC2.

    Why didn't I know about this before. Damned football. I blame the excitement of the Dingwall Counting Centre, scrambling my nerves.

    Putintseva wins!!!

    Coco Gauff the new favourite.
    The principal remaining seeds in the Ladies' draw are Rybakina (4) in the top half and Gauff (2) in the bottom half. It's also opened right up for Raducanu: a qualifier in R4 with the guarantee of an unseeded opponent as well if she makes the QF. More dodgy wrist issues or tripping over shoelaces permitting.
    If she wins she can sack another 8 coaches
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,416
    edited July 6
    76th minute and Southgate still hasn't brought on his subs. 'kin useless!

    They go a goal down and three all at once. Bellingham off! 'kin 'ell!

    Edit 14 not 10.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,966
    agingjb2 said:

    Since when, and in what sense, did STV become a party list system?

    Quite. It is quite possible to be elected as an independent under STV, which is one reason I prefer it
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Andy_JS said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    could the Cons or greens have asked to ensure that they got their deposit back?
    Yes, but the main issue seems to have been that the number of ballot papers in the boxes didn't match up with the number issued at polling stations
    Report from local secondary school is that Boys mainly reform, girls mainly labour but good few reform. Teachers mainly have the vapours about it.

    What exactly did they expect foisting rainbow wokery on them to achieve. Kids of that age rebel against authority.

    Starmer should be careful what he wishes for giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 256
    Cicero said:

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
    What would you see as a solution, that doesn't just involve given everyone a passport who gets here?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,277
    edited July 6
    SAKA!!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    GOAL!!
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 387
    SAKA!
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,372

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003
    1-1 OK, come on England :lol:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,528
    BOOOOOM!
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 387
    edited July 6
    What a goal!
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,164

    Cicero said:

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
    Maybe you could have a good Lib Dem wank to celebrate, followed by a guilty tepid shower, and then listen to a Tim Farron speech afterwards.
    So why did it end up in a full recount?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 669
    It's just starting to get interesting. Goal!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    edited July 6
    Soon as I talk about paint drying we get 2 goals. 😊 Bit of a delay on the computer so maybe the first goal had already happened when I posted that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    edited July 6

    SAKA!!!

    Cheat! That was a back-edit
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,792
    Southgate what an idiot a genius!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    As if keeping the previous Government would've made any difference to that. There is nothing that can be done to deter these people from boarding their dinghies that's violent or ruthless enough to be acceptable to the electorate of a Western democracy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,372
    Nut Saka

    Great goal.

    Pointless crosses to numpties who weren’t there. Waste of time. So he goes for goal. Boom.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Andy_JS said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    could the Cons or greens have asked to ensure that they got their deposit back?
    Yes, but the main issue seems to have been that the number of ballot papers in the boxes didn't match up with the number issued at polling stations
    Maybe the ginger kitten ate them
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    pigeon said:

    Taz said:

    What an effing shock !

    Not. Oh well, the agony will soon be over.
    Appears my uber-pessimism was a bit premature in this instance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,277
    edited July 6
    IanB2 said:

    SAKA!!!

    Cheat! That was a back-edit
    I have no idea what you are talking about.

    ***Innocent face***
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,150
    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Well, for one, it illustrates that Starmer was telling porkies today when he said it wasn't a deterrent.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,462
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cicero said:

    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335

    That is an amazing result. Both the SNP AND the Tories took a battering.
    Maybe you could have a good Lib Dem wank to celebrate, followed by a guilty tepid shower, and then listen to a Tim Farron speech afterwards.
    So why did it end up in a full recount?
    Because the number of votes cast didn't match the number of votes counted.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,150
    Ok, sin erased.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 256
    pigeon said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    As if keeping the previous Government would've made any difference to that. There is nothing that can be done to deter these people from boarding their dinghies that's violent or ruthless enough to be acceptable to the electorate of a Western democracy.
    Australia waves their hand.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    Cicero said:

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
    It's certainly going to create more 'work' if its immediate abolition now leads to a flood of people crossing the channel. The sensible thing to do would have been to keep it up and until he had an alternative, and equally firm, plan in place.

    My guess is SKS will now do a lot of instinctively left-wing things now he's safely in office because the bloke ain't exactly a deep thinker.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,150
    edited July 6

    Cicero said:

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
    It's certainly going to create more 'work' if its immediate abolition now leads to a flood of people crossing the channel. The sensible thing to do would have been to keep it up and until he had an alternative, and equally firm, plan in place.

    My guess is SKS will now do a lot of instinctively left-wing things now he's safely in office because the bloke ain't exactly a deep thinker.
    Why didn't he just downgrade it to processing in Rwanda?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,811
    Andy_JS said:

    Soon as I talk about paint drying we get 2 goals. 😊 Bit of a delay on the computer so maybe the first goal had already happened when I posted that.

    Word reached the pitch of the decision to make the losing team watch the Dingwall Counting Centre replay. In full.

    The effect upon performance was electrifying.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 947

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
    Reform 5 seats
    Green 4 seats
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,608
    Cicero said:

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
    There's an opportunity cost to it too, if you're banking on an unworkable and unhelpful policy 'solving' an issue, you're not spending your time doing things that may actually do it - more comprehensive return/policing agreements, processing before make the crossing, safe routes and a beefed up enforcement on gangs.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992
    pigeon said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    As if keeping the previous Government would've made any difference to that. There is nothing that can be done to deter these people from boarding their dinghies that's violent or ruthless enough to be acceptable to the electorate of a Western democracy.
    Not stopping them, not under current rules, but I think crossing numbers were far lower than they would have otherwise been.

    We will shortly find out.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Genius from Sunak, put Keir in to bat during the best crossing weather of the year. RECORD SMALL BOAT CROSSINGS UNDER LABOUR. SKS out by Christmas.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 256
    edited July 6

    Andy_JS said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    could the Cons or greens have asked to ensure that they got their deposit back?
    Yes, but the main issue seems to have been that the number of ballot papers in the boxes didn't match up with the number issued at polling stations
    Report from local secondary school is that Boys mainly reform, girls mainly labour but good few reform. Teachers mainly have the vapours about it.

    What exactly did they expect foisting rainbow wokery on them to achieve. Kids of that age rebel against authority.

    Starmer should be careful what he wishes for giving 16 and 17 year olds the vote.
    I was a counter, little support for the Conservatives, a fair chunk for greens and libs, but as mentioned wisely earlier on, mistaking not many being interested in the Tories, with none and not bothering to do anything that might interest them. My friend said she thinks its driven by opposition to the boats and incredible social media presence, especially on TikTok.
    We are about 300+ miles away from the south coast of England...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,992

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
    I know how many seats the parties got Sunil, and that's not the "point" you think you're making.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    Daily Mail being patriotic as usual.

    "Escape from Keir's Britain with the experts' definitive emigration guide: The best places for sunshine, big houses, high wages, no crime and top-notch healthcare - plus the hotspot with NO income tax"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-13604631/Escape-Keirs-Britain-experts-emigration-guide-houses-wages-health-care-income-tax-haven.html
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,139

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    Calm down, dear. It’s the Telegraph.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 6

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
    If they don't do anything about this fast it will be Farage 421 Labour 121 next time
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
    I know how many seats the parties got Sunil, and that's not the "point" you think you're making.
    Tories DOWN 244 seats.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003
    Nunu5 said:

    Taz said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    And ?

    People voted for it.
    Oh, indeed. And I repeatedly tried to warn them.

    I won't be shy of pointing that out as it all unfurls.
    Labour 412 seats
    Tories 121 seats
    Reform 5 seats
    Green 4 seats
    Poor BJO :lol:
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 256

    Cicero said:

    I think this is Starmer's first bad move: more or less made it his first priority on day *one*. And it's currently leading The Times.

    He's telegraphed that it's open season, now, and that means that every extra boat crossing over the Summer can be pinned on him now.

    Could it be that when he doesn't have anyone to tediously tactically triangulate against he just makes some very bad decisions?

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-keir-starmer-latest-news-cabinet-prime-minister-htcvhbs20


    Rwanda was not a workable policy, it was a political gimmick and quite an expensive one at that. The right wing press may be trying to put the boot in, but I suspect Starmer will not leave that flank open for long
    It's certainly going to create more 'work' if its immediate abolition now leads to a flood of people crossing the channel. The sensible thing to do would have been to keep it up and until he had an alternative, and equally firm, plan in place.

    My guess is SKS will now do a lot of instinctively left-wing things now he's safely in office because the bloke ain't exactly a deep thinker.
    Maggie had a plan... She defeated the most devious of devious the NMU with a plan...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,200
    I'd be interested to know how many of the 121 Tory MPs could be described as One Nation and therefore likely to support Tom Tugendhat in a leadership contest. (Chief One Nation-er Damian Green lost his seat in Ashford).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946

    pigeon said:

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    As if keeping the previous Government would've made any difference to that. There is nothing that can be done to deter these people from boarding their dinghies that's violent or ruthless enough to be acceptable to the electorate of a Western democracy.
    Not stopping them, not under current rules, but I think crossing numbers were far lower than they would have otherwise been.

    We will shortly find out.
    Natalie Elphicke better be out on beach patrol Monday
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,150
    edited July 6
    Andy_JS said:

    Daily Mail being patriotic as usual.

    "Escape from Keir's Britain with the experts' definitive emigration guide: The best places for sunshine, big houses, high wages, no crime and top-notch healthcare - plus the hotspot with NO income tax"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-13604631/Escape-Keirs-Britain-experts-emigration-guide-houses-wages-health-care-income-tax-haven.html

    "For the first time since the 70s a self-proclaimed socialist is in charge"

    Pretty sure Blair claimed to be a socialist.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,188
    They are going to make us watch another 30 minutes, aren't they?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,462
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Daily Mail being patriotic as usual.

    "Escape from Keir's Britain with the experts' definitive emigration guide: The best places for sunshine, big houses, high wages, no crime and top-notch healthcare - plus the hotspot with NO income tax"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-13604631/Escape-Keirs-Britain-experts-emigration-guide-houses-wages-health-care-income-tax-haven.html

    "For the first time since the 70s a self-proclaimed socialist is in charge"

    Pretty sure Blair claimed to be a socialist.
    Depended on when he spoke and who was listening.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    And here they come..


    "Amir, 23, a bean-seller from Kurdistan, said migrants had given Sir Keir a nickname that roughly translates as a man who works for refugees or workers.

    He said: “We are calling him ‘Party Krekaran’ because we have heard that this guy is really helpful to the refugees.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/migrants-set-to-make-crossing-soon-possible-labour/

    Calm down, dear. It’s the Telegraph.
    Well quite, and who seriously calls himself a bean-seller? "Look guys, there's a bloviating arsehat from the UK right wing press, let's take the piss".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,277
    Am I right in thinking the SNP don't have any MPs south of Stirling?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,003

    Am I right in thinking the SNP don't have any MPs south of Stirling?

    Indeed, all SNPers are north of there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,494
    FT 1:1

    Cow bells drive cows nuts, it has recently been established
This discussion has been closed.