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The majority of voters support changing the voting system – politicalbetting.com

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  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    A dynamic selection of camera angles at Dingwall Counting Centre reveals a strategically placed balcony, perhaps for the media scrum? A bored correspondent from STV and reporters for both the remaining local newspapers gather to moan about the tedium of it all over coffee.

    A sheep wanders unnoticed through the back of the hall. A man texts. A woman takes a nap.

    Could there be an announcement. Probably. Who knows? We are, perhaps, beyond caring at this stage.

    The Socialist Equality Party contingent attempts to start a chorus of Ten Green Bottles to keep everyone's spirits up, but the assembled masses grind to a half-hearted halt at around Eight Green Bottles. Bottles of whisky are all anybody wants now. Possibly served with diazepam.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Adjudication at Inverness now!

    Alas, no pics of the ballots, little drawings, etc.

    The tension is building towards a crescendo at the Dingwall Counting Centre... Unfortunately the live stream is shite:

    "Due to the use if [sic] satellite technology, the stream may buffer, please be patient the stream will return"

    One suspects that the satellite "technology" is of ex-Soviet vintage. On loan from Mr V Putin, Moscow.

    But in the short intervals when the images are actually moving, it's gripping stuff. Rivals the England football team for entertainment and sheer flair.
    They shouldn't have tried all that blue Skye thinking.
    God, please, make it stop.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    JACK_W said:

    To finish first :

    1. Lord Falconer's Speech

    2. Inverness Recount

    3. England Euro Campaign

    4. SeanT's Latest PB Incarnation

    I thought you were dead.
    That should be number 5 ... :smile:
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 715

    The snide and in some cases plain nasty comments on here today about Farage and Reform are quite nasty.

    For the first time since the 1661 election, the Cavalier-Anti Exclusionist-Court-Tory-Conservative party has not got a parliamentary monopoly on its wing of politics in England/Great Britain.

    And they do not like it, they do not like it one bit, they do not like it up 'em.

    Isnt the snide coming from the traditional left, rather than conservatives, who at least agree with 85% of what reform said, if not the nature of how it is said.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    The situation in Inverness is getting increasingly bizarre. How long do they need to count the votes?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    edited July 6
    OT but whjile we wait on Dingwall - some more maps up for free online from the nice people at the National Library in Edinburgh.

    "New Ordnance Survey National Grid Maps of England and Wales, 1940s-1970s Although not relating
    to Scotland (which has had maps at these scales online already for some years), NLS has recently put online
    137,859 OS National Grid maps of England and Wales at 1:1,250/1:2,500 scales (1940s-1970s). These are
    the most detailed maps published by Ordnance Survey of England and Wales after the Second World War.
    All urban areas with more than about 20,000 inhabitants were mapped at 1:1,250 scale, and all other
    inhabited areas and cultivated land were mapped at 1:2,500. At 1:1,250 scale, most detached features
    covering 1 square metre or larger are usually shown. These maps are excellent for viewing divisions between
    houses, house numbers, public and industrial buildings, railways, pavements, streets and street names,
    parkland and trees, paths, spot heights, and all administrative urban and rural boundaries. These maps were
    continually revised, with successive editions for areas undergoing more change on the ground."

    https://maps.nls.uk/additions/#163
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    DM_Andy said:

    What happens if the count in Dingwall isn't finished by the time Starmer calls the next election?

    The surviving candidates each toss a caber, furthest contest wins.

    Dissolution follows immediately and we start again.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    It's the Starmer effect - ever since Labour got in, football has become boring.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 6
    A reflection on America. In the mid 90's I had an American girlfriend and spent some time over there.

    Leaving Heathrow was a tedious security nightmare as it wasn't long after the paramilitaries of an actual UK fascist party had shelled Heathrow.

    On the return leg the airport security was virtudlly non existent. The mainly domestic airport basically had the security of a bus station and my then girlfrend (alas ex by the end of the trip) accompanied me into the depdrture lounge international departures gate, and said goodbye at the gate to the plane, where the international gate had a security measure the rest did not, a metal detector hoop. Having experienced Heathrow a fortnight before the phrase "Are they mad" sprang to mind. Alas correctly.

    Anyway, with US leave amounting to 10 days a year I had a fair bit of time on my own while she was at work.

    I took a 48 hour trip to Washington and visited congress where you could basically wander round the place fairly freely short of going into the private offices and debating chamber. I had lunch in one of the restaurants there with senators and congressmen sitting at adjacent tables discussing various affairs.

    Sadly that all ended a few years afterwards and the country has never recovered from the events that ended it.

    I do think that if they had followed Thatchers example and treated it as a civil matter, with those involved put on trial for murder before a Jury, an awful lot less damage to the country would have been done.

    Reading Pigeons comment about a man wandering around the Inverness count with a toddler on his shoulder, we do appear to have weathered various storms rather better.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    DM_Andy said:

    What happens if the count in Dingwall isn't finished by the time Starmer calls the next election?

    Maybe it's some sort of Ultimate Filibuster.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    pigeon said:

    A dynamic selection of camera angles at Dingwall Counting Centre reveals a strategically placed balcony, perhaps for the media scrum? A bored correspondent from STV and reporters for both the remaining local newspapers gather to moan about the tedium of it all over coffee.

    A sheep wanders unnoticed through the back of the hall. A man texts. A woman takes a nap.

    Could there be an announcement. Probably. Who knows? We are, perhaps, beyond caring at this stage.

    The Socialist Equality Party contingent attempts to start a chorus of Ten Green Bottles to keep everyone's spirits up, but the assembled masses grind to a half-hearted halt at around Eight Green Bottles. Bottles of whisky are all anybody wants now. Possibly served with diazepam.

    BREAKING NEWS

    The sheep has been spotted and led to safety.

    Further developments will be brought to you as they happen.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    Andy_JS said:

    The situation in Inverness is getting increasingly bizarre. How long do they need to count the votes?

    Apparently something more serious has gone wrong. How serious, I don't know, but something that should not have happened.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588

    The snide and in some cases plain nasty comments on here today about Farage and Reform are quite nasty.

    For the first time since the 1661 election, the Cavalier-Anti Exclusionist-Court-Tory-Conservative party has not got a parliamentary monopoly on its wing of politics in England/Great Britain.

    And they do not like it, they do not like it one bit, they do not like it up 'em.

    I don't think the comments about Farage are snide. I think they are openly and directly hostile.

    And most of the rest of the comments on here have been about ways of addressing the concerns of those who feel so abandoned by the main parties that they turn to Farage as nothing else has worked.

    Very few (if any) have been hostile to those people. Today, at least.
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 715
    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    I suspect this is based on outdated ideas about the young always being left wing.
    Many years ago, my other half wrote a paper for a Tory think-tank on the problem with generalising from "many young people" to "all young people" and the foolishness of abandoning "the youth vote" on that basis.
    In a lot of ways the left are now the establishment, at least in terms of culture - to a historically unprecedented degree, so the 'young vote' could react against that.
    I think it is even more complicated than that. Who knows what range of views young people will have in 5 years time? What will be the "consensus" views and what the outliers, and whether any or all of those will overlap with existing political blocs?

    Now is a great time for the Conservatives to do their periodic chameleon thing and emerge as a party with the practical politics that inspire and shape the next generation, while Labour have to deal with the messy business of being in government.

    ETA: for the avoidance of doubt, I do not see who is going to kick that process off. But I live in hope.
    My local school (friend is a teacher there) did an election which included pupils and staff. Reform got the most votes and Labour second. Some of the teachers there are mortified.

    It gives me hope for the future, that no mater what indoctrination they've had in their schooling, when given the opportunity they've stuck two fingers up. Nothing more British than that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Having just decried opinion polling I thought I'd take a look at previous governments and their 'honeymoon' post GE or otherwise, to see how long SKS might have before he starts to smell a bit musty

    1992 - Major's government did not have much of a honeymoon but held the general lead for a few months and it all went south by the turn of the year into 1993 after Black Wednesday

    1997 - 18 months of sky high approval and big leads before a falling back into a deficit during the fuel protests but big leads again afterwards, the only government that maintained approval throughout really

    2001 - probably held approval at election levels until 6 months after Sept 11 2001 then a falling back to lower single figure leads into the election

    2005 - no honeymoon until Brown who got a brief 3-4 month stint as popular before complete collapse

    2010 - coalition did not get a honeymoon, LDs immediately lost vote share and Tories held on at GE level for a few months until Milibands election then honeymoon was over and polling deficits

    2015 - the new majority Con government did not get a honeymoon but maintained a general lead until the EU referendum then May got a delayed honeymoon which she blew on

    2017 - no Honeymoon, Boris got a get the job done boost into

    2019 - brief honeymoon of 3 months or so then Covid, chaos, Barnard Castle, Eat out to spread it about and the rest

    2024....... he's got till Christmas at best to seal the deal and push out in front like Blair '97, that's not long to turn the ship around from a 34% vote
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    This isn't as bad as the last few England games.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    The snide and in some cases plain nasty comments on here today about Farage and Reform are quite nasty.

    For the first time since the 1661 election, the Cavalier-Anti Exclusionist-Court-Tory-Conservative party has not got a parliamentary monopoly on its wing of politics in England/Great Britain.

    And they do not like it, they do not like it one bit, they do not like it up 'em.

    The issue you have is that Farage and Reform are quite nasty. Farage has proven himself nasty many times in the past (e.g. with the breastfeeding stuff he said a decade ago, and which was much discussed on here), and the 'views' of some of the candidates before the GE. The ones he said people should still vote for...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,507
    Coming perhaps late to the discussion but whilst I oppose PR in the form most people mean it (propotionality for the parties) I do think TSE's idea of a two stage referendum and the way it would be set out is sensible. This is a system that should be used in any future referendums for changes where there are multiple possible outcomes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    edited July 6
    Commentator promoting the highlights program later tonight. That's going to be a challenge so far.

    Maybe they can switch to Dingwall instead.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Coming perhaps late to the discussion but whilst I oppose PR in the form most people mean it (propotionality for the parties) I do think TSE's idea of a two stage referendum and the way it would be set out is sensible. This is a system that should be used in any future referendums for changes where there are multiple possible outcomes.

    Stupid question but why not just hold a one-stage AV referendum with the status quo and some alternatives?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
    The disease is spreading, perhaps?

    It is entirely possible that the final will never be completed, on account of the players declining to move at all.

    A performance art event. Standing still for 90 minutes. No, lying prone and motionless on the pitch, as if dead. A commentary upon the horrors of war.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    pigeon said:

    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Adjudication at Inverness now!

    Alas, no pics of the ballots, little drawings, etc.

    The tension is building towards a crescendo at the Dingwall Counting Centre... Unfortunately the live stream is shite:

    "Due to the use if [sic] satellite technology, the stream may buffer, please be patient the stream will return"

    One suspects that the satellite "technology" is of ex-Soviet vintage. On loan from Mr V Putin, Moscow.

    But in the short intervals when the images are actually moving, it's gripping stuff. Rivals the England football team for entertainment and sheer flair.
    They shouldn't have tried all that blue Skye thinking.
    God, please, make it stop.
    Only 4 minutes to half time.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
    The disease is spreading, perhaps?

    It is entirely possible that the final will never be completed, on account of the players declining to move at all.

    A performance art event. Standing still for 90 minutes. No, lying prone and motionless on the pitch, as if dead. A commentary upon the horrors of war.
    A protest in support of the Dingwall Counting Centre?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    rcs1000 said:

    Are the LibDems going to do one of those wanky Shadow Shadow Cabinets?

    Give then their day in the sun. A few weeks ago their entire parliamentary party could fit in a couple of taxis.
    Tories ought to be worrying about their own wanky shadow cabinet rather than other parties' efforts.

    If it's anything like their actual cabinets, then a long period of reflection is in order.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
    Is it just my impression but isn't this generally a very low scoring competition?

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    DavidL said:

    Commentator promoting the highlights program later tonight. That's going to be a challenge so far.

    Maybe they can switch to Dingwall instead.

    A dangerous suggestion. The high octane thrills of the Dingwall Counting Centre may not be suitable for the very young, or viewers of a nervous disposition.

    Nobody could be excited by an England performance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    Now having ample time to contemplate the empty podium with its three-adjective slogan along the best modern lines.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
    The disease is spreading, perhaps?

    It is entirely possible that the final will never be completed, on account of the players declining to move at all.

    A performance art event. Standing still for 90 minutes. No, lying prone and motionless on the pitch, as if dead. A commentary upon the horrors of war.
    A protest in support of the Dingwall Counting Centre?
    Possibly...

    LECTERN ALERT!!!!

    More updates as we get them.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Dingwall Counting Centre latest: empty lectern and static noise coming through the live stream audio. A declaration could be just weeks away...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Are the LibDems going to do one of those wanky Shadow Shadow Cabinets?

    Give then their day in the sun. A few weeks ago their entire parliamentary party could fit in a couple of taxis.
    Tories ought to be worrying about their own wanky shadow cabinet rather than other parties' efforts.

    If it's anything like their actual cabinets, then a long period of reflection is in order.
    They have been known to invent nonexistent official Loyal Oppositions and Shadow Cabinets. Vide R. Davidson at Holyrood (where there is no such thing).
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Carnyx said:

    Now having ample time to contemplate the empty podium with its three-adjective slogan along the best modern lines.

    We have now discovered the Highland Council is, amongst other things, "high performing" and "engaging."

    Not based on current evidence, but we all make mistakes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    edited July 6
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The situation in Inverness is getting increasingly bizarre. How long do they need to count the votes?

    Apparently something more serious has gone wrong. How serious, I don't know, but something that should not have happened.
    Maybe they'll have to re-run the election.

    One guess: a prankster arrived at the polling station with fake ballot papers in their pocket and managed to post them in the ballot box without anyone noticing.

    On the 1987 election I think David Dimbleby mentioned that someone in a constituency like West Ham set their ballot paper on fire with a cigarette lighter and then attempted to post it in the ballot box in order to destroy other peoples' votes. I can't remember whether they were successful or not, probably not, since the election there wasn't invalidated.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Likelihood of protest, legal action and by election increasing.........
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    pigeon said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    The Tories' big mistake was not changing polling station opening hours to 10am to 3pm (for the welfare of the staff, you understand: shorter working day, no counting all through the night,) and restricting postal ballots to the infirm (disabled, in hospital, ELDERLY.)

    If you're going to gerrymander, make a proper job of it.
    Pungent PB Pundit Punditry - NOTE that in proper, that is American, usage, "gerrymander" refers ONLY to manipulation of GEOGRAPHIC boundaries of legislative constituencies and to NONE of the ways you cite for suppressing voter turnout.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
    What about moving the people out? Cf. Borough of Westminster

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homes_for_votes_scandal
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    Been watching the football, but I think watching the recount at Inverness would be more exciting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    rcs1000 said:

    This isn't as bad as the last few England games.

    Faint praise.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    In fairness its not just England. 120 minutes of utter tedium last night.
    Is it just my impression but isn't this generally a very low scoring competition?

    Dingwall Counting Centre is no better. Latest score from Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire: 0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    SandraMc said:

    pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    Has there been some change in the rules which means goals in open play before half time don't count?

    Switzerland is smaller than England. Scoring goals against them just wouldn't be fair. This appears to be the prevailing line of thinking, anyway.
    It's the Starmer effect - ever since Labour got in, football has become boring.
    Compared to the hedge of the seat excitement of England games in the last fortnight?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Now having ample time to contemplate the empty podium with its three-adjective slogan along the best modern lines.

    We have now discovered the Highland Council is, amongst other things, "high performing" and "engaging."

    Not based on current evidence, but we all make mistakes.
    TBF, it's not necessarily their fault. Have to see.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Are the LibDems going to do one of those wanky Shadow Shadow Cabinets?

    Give then their day in the sun. A few weeks ago their entire parliamentary party could fit in a couple of taxis.
    Tories ought to be worrying about their own wanky shadow cabinet rather than other parties' efforts.

    If it's anything like their actual cabinets, then a long period of reflection is in order.
    When Major stood down after 1997, he had an interim Shadow Cabinet while the process to elect Hague happened; basically the survivors from his last Cabinet doubled up to fill the gaps left by his landslide defeat.

    A sensible strategy for Sunak to follow? It would presumably really annoy Jenrick and Braverman, which is always a good thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    0-0 at half-time, at least England didn't concede!
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Shouldn't Sunak just do the minimum possible reshuffle? Have the surviving cabinet ministers shadow their old posts and promote up a Minister of State if the old cabinet minister isn't there. Then whoever wins the leadership can organise a proper team. There seems no point for getting someone in post to learn a new brief only to be replaced in the autumn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    pigeon said:

    Dingwall Counting Centre latest: empty lectern and static noise coming through the live stream audio. A declaration could be just weeks away...

    I am glad the SNP have lost in the West Highlands.

    I am a little disappointed though that it's Drew Hendry, of whom I know no particular ill, rather than that loathsome creep Ian Blackford on the receiving end.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    edited July 6
    I want some of what these pundits are on. All my problems would simply vanish.

    But should we have such blatant drug use on the national broadcaster? There may be pensioners watching.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Been watching the football, but I think watching the recount at Inverness would be more exciting.

    It's amazing, but be warned: you could wet yourself with excitement.

    Make sure you're near a loo. Better still, wear Tena, so you don't have to get up and miss anything.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Inverness declaration coming now
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    DavidL said:

    I want some of what these pundits are on. All my problems would simply vanish.

    The count's not *that* gripping.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    CANDIDATES!!!!!

    More news as we get it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    rcs1000 said:

    This isn't as bad as the last few England games.

    just how low you setting the bar, Robert?

    You have some of the highest paid players in the world unable to take a decent corner.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    On topic SKS doesn't give a fuck what voters think not for another 4.5 years anyway.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    pigeon said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    The Tories' big mistake was not changing polling station opening hours to 10am to 3pm (for the welfare of the staff, you understand: shorter working day, no counting all through the night,) and restricting postal ballots to the infirm (disabled, in hospital, ELDERLY.)

    If you're going to gerrymander, make a proper job of it.
    Pungent PB Pundit Punditry - NOTE that in proper, that is American, usage, "gerrymander" refers ONLY to manipulation of GEOGRAPHIC boundaries of legislative constituencies and to NONE of the ways you cite for suppressing voter turnout.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
    What about moving the people out? Cf. Borough of Westminster

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homes_for_votes_scandal
    No, that's NOT a gerrymander in classic sense anyway.

    Though dishonorable mention to Tories for creative innovation!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Inverness declaration now
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252

    On topic SKS doesn't give a fuck what voters think not for another 4.5 years anyway.

    He does give a fuck. But not necessarily for those who voted for Corbyn in 2019 and didn't vote Labour this time.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Nigelb said:



    My kitten is enjoying it.

    Orange cat Klaxon!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    sound was crap but the LibDem won.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Lib Dem victory confirmed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Speech by winning Lib Dem incomprehensible due to poor audio.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    edited July 6

    sound was crap but the LibDem won.

    They had about 15 hours to prepare for it and then I couldn't hear the figures because it sounded as if a baby was closer to the microphone than the person announcing the results.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Dingwall Counting Centre:

    LIB DEM GAIN!!!

    Vote details lost amidst choking live stream. Thank you Highland Council/Mr Putin.

    Thank God that's over. From Dingwall Counting Centre, good afternoon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    Andy_JS said:

    sound was crap but the LibDem won.

    They had about 15 hours to prepare for it and then I couldn't hear the figures because it sounded as if a baby was closer to the microphone than the person announcing the results.
    So Blackford did turn up?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Nigelb said:



    My kitten is enjoying it.

    Football game for scale?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    sound was crap but the LibDem won.

    They had about 15 hours to prepare for it and then I couldn't hear the figures because it sounded as if a baby was closer to the microphone than the person announcing the results.
    So Blackford did turn up?
    No. Had previously said he would not due to previous "unchangeable" personal commitment (my guess is a wedding).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Probably the best Tory result of the election (apart from Leicester East) was in Keighley & Ilkley. Tories held it by about 1,500 votes with a swing of 7%.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/E14001308
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796

    Speech by winning Lib Dem incomprehensible due to poor audio.

    Well, that plus him being a Lib Dem.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Adjudication at Inverness now!

    Alas, no pics of the ballots, little drawings, etc.

    The tension is building towards a crescendo at the Dingwall Counting Centre... Unfortunately the live stream is shite:

    "Due to the use if [sic] satellite technology, the stream may buffer, please be patient the stream will return"

    One suspects that the satellite "technology" is of ex-Soviet vintage. On loan from Mr V Putin, Moscow.

    But in the short intervals when the images are actually moving, it's gripping stuff. Rivals the England football team for entertainment and sheer flair.
    They shouldn't have tried all that blue Skye thinking.
    Skye is blue.
    Clouds are white
    That's why God's a Wednesdayite
    But is nothing to do with the delay in the declaration

    Think it may need more work
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    edited July 6
    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Scottish Tories the fourth party of Scottish politics in seat terms for the first time since 2010
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    The only problem with the end of the Dingwall Counting Centre art performance is that more of my attention will now be occupied by background noise from Dusseldorf. Oh, the painfulness of it all.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Bank error in your favour. Collect £200.

    Well bookmaker error and only £20. Settled one of my constituency losers as a winner.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    Fixed that for you
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    edited July 6
    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    The audio was dreadful, but I think the result was something like LD 18k, SNP 16k, others nowhere. Beyond that, we'll have to wait for someone to post it to a reputable web source.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:



    My kitten is enjoying it.

    Football game for scale?
    Kitten demonstrating superior spatial awareness to England team.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    0-0
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    @Andy_JS

    I owe you an apology, Andy. The proceedings at Inverness were infinitely more exciting than the football. Can't wait to watch the highlights later.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 92

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    LD 18---
    SNP 15,999

    That's all I heard. Waiting for the BBC to update.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    Something went wrong with the accounting for ballots (numbers of). Some appeared or disappeared mysteriously, or something.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    LD 18---
    SNP 15,999

    That's all I heard. Waiting for the BBC to update.
    SKY

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    Apparently the votes cast didn't tally with the final vote count, suggesting several bundles had been overlooked somewhere.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,507

    Inverness percentages

    LD 37.8 (+22.7)
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4)
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6)
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1)
    Con 5.2 (-18.1)
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9)
    Soc 0.4

    Not particularly close, why the recount?
    I thought last night they said that there was a discrepency between the vote returns and the number of ballot papers?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    rcs1000 said:

    Are the LibDems going to do one of those wanky Shadow Shadow Cabinets?

    Give then their day in the sun. A few weeks ago their entire parliamentary party could fit in a couple of taxis.
    The SNP can now fit in a campervan.
    Testifying to the amazing prescience of former SNP Big Fish Nicola Sturgeon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    Looking forward to Sunak's cabinet reshuffle on Monday following some disappointing results on Thursday.

    Could be interesting to see who gets a more prominent platform as a result. Might be some new faces from the usual suspects.
    Claire Coutinho as Shadow Chancellor I think/hope/guess. Hunt Chairman.
    Coutinho could shred Reeves.
    She'll need to up her game. She was very vin ordinaire during the later stages of the campaign.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    Probably the best Tory result of the election (apart from Leicester East) was in Keighley & Ilkley. Tories held it by about 1,500 votes with a swing of 7%.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/E14001308

    West London generally especially around Harrow was less disastrous and Darlington, Redcar and Midds South and Cleve East were better than average results. Darlington was the closest they came to a red wall hold where Reform stood
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    pigeon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    The audio was dreadful, but I think the result was something like LD 18k, SNP 16k, others nowhere. Beyond that, we'll have to wait for someone to post it to a reputable web source.
    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Can anyone post the result for those of us unfortunate enough not to have live stream?

    LD 18---
    SNP 15,999

    That's all I heard. Waiting for the BBC to update.
    SKY

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335
    Well done Sky, putting the Beeb to shame.

    @Andy_JS

    I owe you an apology, Andy. The proceedings at Inverness were infinitely more exciting than the football. Can't wait to watch the highlights later.

    Look out for the woman folding the black sheet thingy about twenty minutes before the declaration. Very artful.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    mwadams said:

    darkage said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    I suspect this is based on outdated ideas about the young always being left wing.
    Many years ago, my other half wrote a paper for a Tory think-tank on the problem with generalising from "many young people" to "all young people" and the foolishness of abandoning "the youth vote" on that basis.
    In a lot of ways the left are now the establishment, at least in terms of culture - to a historically unprecedented degree, so the 'young vote' could react against that.
    I think it is even more complicated than that. Who knows what range of views young people will have in 5 years time? What will be the "consensus" views and what the outliers, and whether any or all of those will overlap with existing political blocs?

    Now is a great time for the Conservatives to do their periodic chameleon thing and emerge as a party with the practical politics that inspire and shape the next generation, while Labour have to deal with the messy business of being in government.

    ETA: for the avoidance of doubt, I do not see who is going to kick that process off. But I live in hope.
    My local school (friend is a teacher there) did an election which included pupils and staff. Reform got the most votes and Labour second. Some of the teachers there are mortified.

    It gives me hope for the future, that no mater what indoctrination they've had in their schooling, when given the opportunity they've stuck two fingers up. Nothing more British than that.
    The panic about Reform is just really entertaining. They just seem to drive people completely mad.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    edited July 6
    Per SKY:

    Inverness percentages and votes

    LD 37.8 (+22.7) 18,159
    SNP 33.3 (-15.4) 15,999
    Lab 13.0 (+3.6) 6,246
    Ref 6.1 (+4.1) 2,934
    Con 5.2 (-18.1) 2,502
    Grn 4.3 (+2.9) 2,058
    Soc 0.4 (+0.4) 178

    maj. 2,160, turnout 61.7%

    https://election.news.sky.com/elections/general-election-2024/inverness-skye-and-west-ross-335
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 142

    pigeon said:

    I'm absolutely opposed to extending the franchise to allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote. They are children.

    18 is the age of majority for a reason.

    I don't agree with it, but let them if it makes them feel better.

    We tried rebalancing constituencies and introducing voter ID.

    It made absolutely no difference in the end.
    The Tories' big mistake was not changing polling station opening hours to 10am to 3pm (for the welfare of the staff, you understand: shorter working day, no counting all through the night,) and restricting postal ballots to the infirm (disabled, in hospital, ELDERLY.)

    If you're going to gerrymander, make a proper job of it.
    Pungent PB Pundit Punditry - NOTE that in proper, that is American, usage, "gerrymander" refers ONLY to manipulation of GEOGRAPHIC boundaries of legislative constituencies and to NONE of the ways you cite for suppressing voter turnout.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
    That ship has, alas, likely sailed.

    It's still not as misused a term as 'FPTP' though...
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:



    My kitten is enjoying it.

    Football game for scale?
    Kitten Kong? Run for your lives!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    edited July 6
    LD 18159
    SNP 15999
    Lab 6246
    Ref 2934
    Con 2502
    Grn 2038
    Soc Equ 178

    LD maj 2160

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/constituencies/S14000094

    So the final Lab score is 9,704,655 according to the BBC.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2024/uk/results
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 715

    On topic SKS doesn't give a fuck what voters think not for another 4.5 years anyway.

    You hope. The ming jar strategy could carry on into government and make him ultra cautious.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    spudgfsh said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:



    My kitten is enjoying it.

    Football game for scale?
    Kitten Kong? Run for your lives!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ78rhjthQY
This discussion has been closed.