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All three MRPs today bring bad news for the SNP – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,477

    President Biden spoke with Senator Chuck Schumer, the majority leader, on Wednesday morning for the first time since the president’s disastrous debate performance against former President Donald J. Trump last week, according to two people briefed on the matter.

    It was unclear what was said between the two men

    NY Times

    Hopefully Schumer told him to go and tend his garden.

    Come on man...its was jetlag.....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,285

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    More likely* is an exit poll of "Labour majority of 26" which then gets whittled down to NOM as Tories win a string of very close seats.

    *still not very likely!
    Might be worth the current 16-1 on Ladbrokes
    For the 16-1 to be attractive requires at least three things:

    1. Labour supporters in the South don't vote tactically for the LibDems. Quite possible, albeit I suspect not particularly likely.
    2. Reform to underperform, particularly in the South, with their vote going disproportionately back to the Conservatives. Also quite possible. But that's not really consistent with Reform polling 14%+.
    3. Labour to hit only the low-point of their polling. Yep, perfectly possible.

    But here's the thing. Even if all of these happen, the Conservatives are still likely to suffer an equivalent result to 2005, where the Labour Party was only a few percent ahead of the Conservatives and where they managed an 80 seat majority.

  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Ah, maybe a bet on Tory majority isn't completely insane.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,801

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    I can't remember whether I chortled and scoffed at your line on Biden, but I was sure he would be the nominee and the age thing could be dealt with.

    Then Biden did an early debate to deal with the age thing...
    Biden was obviously nowhere near as sharp as he used to be. Other than the State of the Union address — which I didn't think was great at all, merely okay — he hadn't really done any other recent live and unprompted speech or debate of a similar length. It couldn't have gone much worse for him. If Biden was up against anyone but Trump the Democrats would be looking at a thrashing like in 1984. That they still might be able to get out of this mess is down to Trump being repellent to any sensible person.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,653

    Andy_JS said:

    The Tory campaign hasn't been bad, just non-existent.

    Rain, D-Day, putting a cartoon hat and moustache on Ange - yes, it's been bad.
    My favourite was last night as Sunak recreated the Fall of Saigon.

    After the Titanic fuck-up somebody must have misheard Sunak saying: "Just make sure the last rally doesn't look like the fall of Saigon."



    https://x.com/KennyFarq/status/1808249611192357054
    No. No. You gotta be kidding me!!!!??? They didn't did they?
    They did.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 80,477

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    And there goes a 1-2% from the Labour Party vote total...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨Final Call Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead by 17 points in our final call poll.
    Con 22% (+1)
    Lab 39% (-3)
    Lib Dem 10% (-1)
    Reform 17% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    Green 7% (+3)
    Other 3%(-)
    Fieldwork: 29th June to 3rd July 2024
    Sample: 1,737 GB adults
    (Change from 27th to 29th June 2024)

    https://x.com/DeltapollUK/status/1808546417876906085

    LDs are stubbornly persistent about 10%
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638
    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    The Tory campaign has been a disaster from start to finsh, but I am actually trying to think when was the last good one. 2015. 2010 wasn't great for the Tories either.

    2019 - Say what you like about Boris and Cummings but they knew how to deploy an effective campaign.
    And the lesson is never let either of those fuckers anywhere near another campaign...

    They won the Brexit vote, which BoZo didn't want, and fucked everything up from there

    They won the election, and had zero clue what to do next
    Intelligent people are generally good at working out what is wrong, and knowing how to destroy it.

    Building something better in its place requires more than straightforward intelligence.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,080
    GIN1138 said:

    The Tory campaign has been a disaster from start to finsh, but I am actually trying to think when was the last good one. 2015. 2010 wasn't great for the Tories either.

    The Tories ran a brilliant, below the radar campaign in 2015. They targeted expertly.

    The problem with 2015 (and it was a problem with all the Cameron/Osborne campaigns and eventually caught up with them in referendum) is that it was all negative, negative, negative.

    Granted it just about worked and they pulled out the first Con majority for 23 years but maybe if they'd been a bit more positive the result would have been even better?
    The un-discussed issue with the 2015 Conservative campaign was that it was Con vs LibDem, not Con vs Lab.
    That may come back to bite the Tories. So far it hasn’t.
    If, and it’s still a big if, Ed Davey takes the role of LOTO then Cameron can reflect on karma.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,001

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    And it was all going so well for Sir Kier...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,588

    DougSeal said:

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    We've all been following your advice and that of MexicanPete and have put a money on a small Tory majoritu. Nailed on.
    Then you stand a very small chance of winning a wodge and being subject to a gambling commission enquiry and a very large chance of enhancing bookies profits and not being subject to a gambling commission enquiry.

    Personally I'm wondering whether to put between £5 and £20 on NOM at 16-1 but will probably be frit.
    Don’t. Take the far more generous odds on BX. You are a Laddies monomaniac!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,425
    IanB2 said:

    Intelligent people are generally good at working out what is wrong, and knowing how to destroy it.

    Building something better in its place requires more than straightforward intelligence.

    What they destroyed wasn't broken. It was a fragile and precious thing.

    They crushed it for the LOLZ
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,867
    kle4 said:

    I still can’t get over spectacularly Rwanda and small boats blew up in their face.

    In May 2022, 10% of Cons 2019 voters said immigration was a top concern, and among that group 39% said Tories were best on immigration.

    Today, 40% say it’s a top concern, but now only 20% of them say Tories are best on the issue, vs 40% who say Reform.….

    …"Sir, I have good news and bad news. The good news is our wedge issue worked beautifully. The bad news is, we’re on the wrong side of the wedge."



    https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1808543994797752809

    Making it your core idea and then not delivering is not a great idea. Maybe they thought the delays and problems would stir people up against Labour somehow?
    It will stir up against Labour once they are in office. There is no Plan B. Starmer better pray for some shit weather in the Channel for the next three months. If the migrants start arriving in record numbers - and the snakeheads are going to push the issue to see how many they can expect to get across in the next months and years - any honeymoon period is going to be met with an early divorce.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    GIN1138 said:

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    And it was all going so well for Sir Kier...
    Gulags for slags is back!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,248

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    More likely* is an exit poll of "Labour majority of 26" which then gets whittled down to NOM as Tories win a string of very close seats.

    *still not very likely!
    Might be worth the current 16-1 on Ladbrokes
    It really wouldn’t, given it’s 34 on Betfair.

    Do you work for Ladbrokes? You seem keen to advertise their shite prices!!
    Ladbrokes is the motorway petrol station.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    @Farooq

    Corrected entry scuppered by new fred. Here it is again. Apols for my general incompetence. Thanks for running the comp!

    General Election Competition

    In how many seats will:
    1. Reform beat Conservative (don't count draws)? 51
    2. Labour finish 3rd or lower (don't count where they didn't stand)? 78
    3. Conservatives lose their deposit? 25
    4. Lib Dems lose their deposit? 303
    5. Reform lose their deposit? 242
    6. Labour lose their deposit? 0

    How big:
    7. Will the largest winning vote margin be? 33699
    8. Will the biggest notional majority defeated be (only count where the incumbent party stands)? 27,210

    How small:
    9. Will the smallest winning vote margin be (1st - 2nd)? 56
    10. Will the smallest gap between 1st and 3rd be? 1125
    11. Will the lowest number of votes for any candidate? 11

    How many:
    12. Parties will be elected (whether or not they take their seats. All true independents are grouped as a single party)? 12
    13. Seats will the Conservatives win? 98
    14. Seats will Labour win? 415
    15. Seats will Lib Dems win? 42
    16. Seats will the SNP win? 31
    17. Seats will Sinn Fein win? 7
    18. Seats will DUP win? 6
    19. Seats will Reform come second in? 75

    What percentage vote:
    20. Will Conservatives get across the UK? 22.3%
    21. Will Reform get across the UK? 15.7%
    22. Will SNP get in Scotland? 37.3%
    23. Will be lowest of any winning candidate? 29.5%
    24. Will be highest of any 2nd place candidate? 45.1%
    25. Will Speaker get? 78.9%



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,490
    edited July 3

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Literally no-one wanted to hear from Gordon Brown at this juncture. 😊
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,588
    rcs1000 said:

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    More likely* is an exit poll of "Labour majority of 26" which then gets whittled down to NOM as Tories win a string of very close seats.

    *still not very likely!
    Might be worth the current 16-1 on Ladbrokes
    For the 16-1 to be attractive requires at least three things:

    1. Labour supporters in the South don't vote tactically for the LibDems. Quite possible, albeit I suspect not particularly likely.
    2. Reform to underperform, particularly in the South, with their vote going disproportionately back to the Conservatives. Also quite possible. But that's not really consistent with Reform polling 14%+.
    3. Labour to hit only the low-point of their polling. Yep, perfectly possible.

    But here's the thing. Even if all of these happen, the Conservatives are still likely to suffer an equivalent result to 2005, where the Labour Party was only a few percent ahead of the Conservatives and where they managed an 80 seat majority.

    It’s not ever going to be attractive when you can get much better odds elsewhere.

    Had this site morphed into mugpunter.com ?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,588


    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    More likely* is an exit poll of "Labour majority of 26" which then gets whittled down to NOM as Tories win a string of very close seats.

    *still not very likely!
    Might be worth the current 16-1 on Ladbrokes
    It really wouldn’t, given it’s 34 on Betfair.

    Do you work for Ladbrokes? You seem keen to advertise their shite prices!!
    Ladbrokes is the motorway petrol station.

    :D Quite.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IanB2 said:

    Some critical commentary from YouGov’s latest MRP:

    While there is a general expectation across pollsters and analysts that swing will indeed be proportional this time around – that being different to the vast majority of British elections, in which it tends to be uniform – the extent of that proportionality can be the difference between a scenario in which the Conservatives on around 22% of the vote could drop as low as 60 seats or reach as high as 140 seats.

    The Conservative vote share at the 2019 general election was roughly 44%. We estimate that the Conservatives will win 22% of the vote share tomorrow. This would be a literal halving of the party’s support since the last election.

    We estimate that the proportionality of the swing will be approaching 1:1 proportionality, but will stop short of a situation where, for example, the Conservatives are on 50% on the vote in 2019 and end up on 25% tomorrow. We would anticipate that value to be around 26% or 27%.

    If the swing is more proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will end up with fewer seats. If the swing is less proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will lose less. With no historical markers or comparators for us to benchmark this coming election against, it is very difficult to tell exactly which way this relationship will fall. This, plus the usual caveats around polling regarding statistical uncertainty and margins of error, serve as a reminder to set expectations wide as to exactly what sort of election result we may see come July 5th.

    Interesting! Is there an English translation available?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Andy_JS said:

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Literally no-one wanted to hear from Gordon Brown at this juncture. 😊
    Puritanical old bustard, back in the Manse crypt with him
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Andy_JS said:

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Literally no-one wanted to hear from Gordon Brown at this juncture. 😊
    Actually I did. I respect him and so does my Surrey tory friend. She thinks he talks a lot of sense.

    What he posted was absolutely spot on.

    So I’ll cut and paste it just to annoy you. But also because this is precisely why you are about to take one hell of a beating. You became the Nasty Party Redux.

    'As the Tories pander to the prejudices and hard-right agenda of Nigel Farage and his supporters, it’s become clear that what’s at stake in this election is nothing less than what it means to be British.

    Britain has always been defined by three basic truths. First, fairness: a belief that we’re not just self-seeking individuals with no obligation to others - just look at the pride we take in the NHS. But this sense of decency has been torn apart by Tory vindictiveness.

    The idea that social security should take the shame out of need has been eroded. Now families are forced to depend on food banks instead of the welfare state to avoid hunger and destitution. I’ve never seen poor people so humiliated and stigmatised.

    Then there’s civil liberties and the rule of law. We’ve seen these most British of values repeatedly undermined – from the proroguing of Parliament to legislation ignoring international law to attacks on the ECHR which was created by Churchill and his colleagues.

    Finally, the far right claims Britain does best when we stand apart from other nations. But Britain is at its best when it sees the Channel not as a moat but as a bridge, when we are outward-looking and lead - as we did in last century’s fight against fascism.

    This election we can reject the Farage and Tory version of Britain and get our real country back. We can return to the British values of decency, respect for the law and openness.

    With a world in flames, it’s never been more vital to defend and vote for these principles.'

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting feature of many of the recent MRPs is the way they've been showing the Tories surprisingly close to winning in Ynys Môn despite defending a majority of only 1,968 (5.4%).

    YouGov MRP, Ynys Môn:

    Lab 29%
    Con 27%
    PC 25%
    Ref 13%
    LD 4%
    Grn 2%

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49950-final-yougov-mrp-shows-labour-on-course-for-historic-election-victory

    The sole Tory Welsh seat being Ynys Mon would be Keith Bestastic
    By two votes. BigG and Mrs BigG :)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,516
    Andy_JS said:

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Literally no-one wanted to hear from Gordon Brown at this juncture. 😊
    And this juncture is very far from unique.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764
    rcs1000 said:

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    More likely* is an exit poll of "Labour majority of 26" which then gets whittled down to NOM as Tories win a string of very close seats.

    *still not very likely!
    Might be worth the current 16-1 on Ladbrokes
    For the 16-1 to be attractive requires at least three things:

    1. Labour supporters in the South don't vote tactically for the LibDems. Quite possible, albeit I suspect not particularly likely.
    2. Reform to underperform, particularly in the South, with their vote going disproportionately back to the Conservatives. Also quite possible. But that's not really consistent with Reform polling 14%+.
    3. Labour to hit only the low-point of their polling. Yep, perfectly possible.

    But here's the thing. Even if all of these happen, the Conservatives are still likely to suffer an equivalent result to 2005, where the Labour Party was only a few percent ahead of the Conservatives and where they managed an 80 seat majority.

    And that despite all the received wisdom that boundary changes protected the Tories.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    edited July 3
    As late as mid June of this year, @Anabobazina was trying to dismiss evidence that Biden was senile


    "At the end of this article, there is more on Biden at the G7 and the claim that he just wandered off is debunked": https://apnews.com/article/trump-mental-acuity-gaffe-biden-ronny-jackson-0d45b6d89ae295b690f5ad12ca0bd38a

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4837697/#Comment_4837697


    Recall, this is after at least a YEAR of evidence - some of it brazen and blatant - that Biden was going gaga. Even by mid June the very dumbest of PB-ers - eg @Anabobazina - were trying to discount it and ignore it

    Not unrelatedly, @Anabobazina was possibly the last PBer to defend the Wet Market Hypothesis

    There really is a weird mental phenomenon at work here, where educated (but not very intelligent) people will deliberately believe insane things if the alternative makes them uncomfortable. It is the cerebration of toddlers. The mentality of the impaired
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,870
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨Final Call Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead by 17 points in our final call poll.
    Con 22% (+1)
    Lab 39% (-3)
    Lib Dem 10% (-1)
    Reform 17% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-1)
    Green 7% (+3)
    Other 3%(-)
    Fieldwork: 29th June to 3rd July 2024
    Sample: 1,737 GB adults
    (Change from 27th to 29th June 2024)

    https://x.com/DeltapollUK/status/1808546417876906085

    LDs are stubbornly persistent about 10%
    That's quite low at GEs historically, but if you can subtract a large Reform vote from your main opponent, then I guess it's adequate.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    It is of course possible that if you didn’t rant and rave about everything people might take notice when you get one thing in a million right.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,639

    IanB2 said:

    Some critical commentary from YouGov’s latest MRP:

    While there is a general expectation across pollsters and analysts that swing will indeed be proportional this time around – that being different to the vast majority of British elections, in which it tends to be uniform – the extent of that proportionality can be the difference between a scenario in which the Conservatives on around 22% of the vote could drop as low as 60 seats or reach as high as 140 seats.

    The Conservative vote share at the 2019 general election was roughly 44%. We estimate that the Conservatives will win 22% of the vote share tomorrow. This would be a literal halving of the party’s support since the last election.

    We estimate that the proportionality of the swing will be approaching 1:1 proportionality, but will stop short of a situation where, for example, the Conservatives are on 50% on the vote in 2019 and end up on 25% tomorrow. We would anticipate that value to be around 26% or 27%.

    If the swing is more proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will end up with fewer seats. If the swing is less proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will lose less. With no historical markers or comparators for us to benchmark this coming election against, it is very difficult to tell exactly which way this relationship will fall. This, plus the usual caveats around polling regarding statistical uncertainty and margins of error, serve as a reminder to set expectations wide as to exactly what sort of election result we may see come July 5th.

    Interesting! Is there an English translation available?
    It's purely about how they run the model to produce the forecast. The Tories are being modelled to lose more votes in places where they won more votes last time. This is a more punitive modelling choice than the usual pattern, where the number of votes you won isn't connected to the swing against you.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638

    IanB2 said:

    Some critical commentary from YouGov’s latest MRP:

    While there is a general expectation across pollsters and analysts that swing will indeed be proportional this time around – that being different to the vast majority of British elections, in which it tends to be uniform – the extent of that proportionality can be the difference between a scenario in which the Conservatives on around 22% of the vote could drop as low as 60 seats or reach as high as 140 seats.

    The Conservative vote share at the 2019 general election was roughly 44%. We estimate that the Conservatives will win 22% of the vote share tomorrow. This would be a literal halving of the party’s support since the last election.

    We estimate that the proportionality of the swing will be approaching 1:1 proportionality, but will stop short of a situation where, for example, the Conservatives are on 50% on the vote in 2019 and end up on 25% tomorrow. We would anticipate that value to be around 26% or 27%.

    If the swing is more proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will end up with fewer seats. If the swing is less proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will lose less. With no historical markers or comparators for us to benchmark this coming election against, it is very difficult to tell exactly which way this relationship will fall. This, plus the usual caveats around polling regarding statistical uncertainty and margins of error, serve as a reminder to set expectations wide as to exactly what sort of election result we may see come July 5th.

    Interesting! Is there an English translation available?
    TLDR: Despite the misleading specificity of our forecasts, the potential error in our methodology means that the Tories could land anything from total disaster through to a rather large flesh wound.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,583
    edited July 3
    Take a look at the Wiki poll graph for the campaign only (second blob option).

    Lab started at 45.5 and has moved in almost a straight line downwards to now stand at 39.

    If it is a Con wipeout it begs the question what would have happened if the GE had been before the campaign.

    Campaign movements:

    Lab: start 45.5, now 39 (down 6.5)
    Con: start 24, now 21.5 (down 2.5)
    Ref: start 11, now 16 (up 5)
    LD: start 9, now 11 (up 2)
    Green: start 5.5, now 6.5 (up 1)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,490
    Don't think I've ever seen anything as preposterous as Betfair implying Gavin Newsom or Michelle Obama have a bigger combined chance than Biden of winning the election
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    It is of course possible that if you didn’t rant and rave about everything people might take notice when you get one thing in a million right.
    Go back to your constituences and prepare your thermoses!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,248
    .
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Literally no-one wanted to hear from Gordon Brown at this juncture. 😊
    Actually I did. I respect him and so does my Surrey tory friend. She thinks he talks a lot of sense.

    What he posted was absolutely spot on.

    So I’ll cut and paste it just to annoy you.

    Are you twelve?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,605
    Todays 3 MRPs all have an SKS supermajority

    Not bad on less than 12m votes
  • eekeek Posts: 27,599
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    TLDR - Too Long, didn’t read
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
    I don’t think he’s capable of listening to advice any more.

    He’s reminding me of a cross between Joey Barton and Russell Brand
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Intelligent people are generally good at working out what is wrong, and knowing how to destroy it.

    Building something better in its place requires more than straightforward intelligence.

    What they destroyed wasn't broken. It was a fragile and precious thing.

    They crushed it for the LOLZ
    The Tories are doing OK campaigning against LOLZ in outer London.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764
    Andy_JS said:

    The Tory campaign hasn't been bad, just non-existent.

    There’s been a constant stream of kidiocy on Twitter. Christ knows who’s been running the stream. Rees-Mogg’s kids, nanny?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,867
    Biden doing a June debate had no benefit UNLESS the Dems' Men In Grey Suits made it a condition of support that he performed OK. He didn't - he left everybody's worries about his candidature hanging out there. A June debate meant enough time to change if things went poorly.

    Which is where we are at.

    The interesting thing is that Trump's faculties are arguably even more shot than Biden's. At least Biden hasn't publically mulled over death by shark versus electrocution. The best outcome is Dems get a new candidate (Dems Without Dementia!) whilst Trump, having got his Kingly immunity, goes undisputedly as mad as King George III.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,720
    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252

    DougSeal said:

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    We've all been following your advice and that of MexicanPete and have put a money on a small Tory majoritu. Nailed on.
    Then you stand a very small chance of winning a wodge and being subject to a gambling commission enquiry and a very large chance of enhancing bookies profits and not being subject to a gambling commission enquiry.

    Personally I'm wondering whether to put between £5 and £20 on NOM at 16-1 but will probably be frit.
    Don’t. Take the far more generous odds on BX. You are a Laddies monomaniac!
    Betfred are offering 20-1 and a minutes walk from work for a cash bet

    BX needs online account
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Meanwhile as I prepare for the men’s Tour de France highlights show, has there ever been an election with as many eve of vote opinion polls?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,122
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting feature of many of the recent MRPs is the way they've been showing the Tories surprisingly close to winning in Ynys Môn despite defending a majority of only 1,968 (5.4%).

    YouGov MRP, Ynys Môn:

    Lab 29%
    Con 27%
    PC 25%
    Ref 13%
    LD 4%
    Grn 2%

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49950-final-yougov-mrp-shows-labour-on-course-for-historic-election-victory

    The sole Tory Welsh seat being Ynys Mon would be Keith Bestastic
    By two votes. BigG and Mrs BigG :)
    I believe the Gs are in Aberconwy.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,599
    edited July 3
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Some critical commentary from YouGov’s latest MRP:

    While there is a general expectation across pollsters and analysts that swing will indeed be proportional this time around – that being different to the vast majority of British elections, in which it tends to be uniform – the extent of that proportionality can be the difference between a scenario in which the Conservatives on around 22% of the vote could drop as low as 60 seats or reach as high as 140 seats.

    The Conservative vote share at the 2019 general election was roughly 44%. We estimate that the Conservatives will win 22% of the vote share tomorrow. This would be a literal halving of the party’s support since the last election.

    We estimate that the proportionality of the swing will be approaching 1:1 proportionality, but will stop short of a situation where, for example, the Conservatives are on 50% on the vote in 2019 and end up on 25% tomorrow. We would anticipate that value to be around 26% or 27%.

    If the swing is more proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will end up with fewer seats. If the swing is less proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will lose less. With no historical markers or comparators for us to benchmark this coming election against, it is very difficult to tell exactly which way this relationship will fall. This, plus the usual caveats around polling regarding statistical uncertainty and margins of error, serve as a reminder to set expectations wide as to exactly what sort of election result we may see come July 5th.

    Interesting! Is there an English translation available?
    TLDR: Despite the misleading specificity of our forecasts, the potential error in our methodology means that the Tories could land anything from total disaster through to a rather large flesh wound.
    And that’s the most remarkable thing about this election, the Tory party could end up with 160 seats or 32 and anyone who can tell you what is a actually going to happen is deluding themselves

    I mean granted the end result has been obvious for months but size of the result and the consequences are totally unknown
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    edited July 3
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    It's internet jargon not election jargon

    Too Long Didn't Read

    Usually denoting someone has read it, and are summarising it in more concise fashion.

    There are a series of youtube channels doing short form videos with that title though
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSMqateX8OA2s1wsOR2EgJA

    They record in a studio with David Cameron's memoire on the shelf.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,490
    This is why results from individual ballot boxes can't be published.

    "What happens at the count?
    ...........................................................................
    Ballot papers from a ballot box are mixed with those from at least one other, including postal votes, to help preserve the secrecy of the vote. Votes are then sorted by candidate. Ballots for each candidate are placed in bundles and their number checked by more than one counting assistant. Ballots should be kept face up at all times. This prevents anyone seeing the ballot paper number and ensures the count is transparent for agents and observers."

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-happens-when-the-polls-close/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142
    edited July 3

    IanB2 said:

    Some critical commentary from YouGov’s latest MRP:

    While there is a general expectation across pollsters and analysts that swing will indeed be proportional this time around – that being different to the vast majority of British elections, in which it tends to be uniform – the extent of that proportionality can be the difference between a scenario in which the Conservatives on around 22% of the vote could drop as low as 60 seats or reach as high as 140 seats.

    The Conservative vote share at the 2019 general election was roughly 44%. We estimate that the Conservatives will win 22% of the vote share tomorrow. This would be a literal halving of the party’s support since the last election.

    We estimate that the proportionality of the swing will be approaching 1:1 proportionality, but will stop short of a situation where, for example, the Conservatives are on 50% on the vote in 2019 and end up on 25% tomorrow. We would anticipate that value to be around 26% or 27%.

    If the swing is more proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will end up with fewer seats. If the swing is less proportional than we estimate, then the Conservatives will lose less. With no historical markers or comparators for us to benchmark this coming election against, it is very difficult to tell exactly which way this relationship will fall. This, plus the usual caveats around polling regarding statistical uncertainty and margins of error, serve as a reminder to set expectations wide as to exactly what sort of election result we may see come July 5th.

    Interesting! Is there an English translation available?
    "The number of seats deduced from a MRP depends on whether a uniform or proportional swing is used. But we don't know which one is true. Fun, isn't it? (presses button at random)"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    WTF?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
    I was accused of raving on about Biden having dementia, six months ago, a year ago, or more - even as half of PB denied that he had dementia, and scoffed at my "Trumpite messaging"

    Now the President, it seems, is resigning because he has dementia

    If lurkers read me on this forum, they would know this seismic event was highly likely; if they read you or any of the other halfwits, they'd be entirely clueless and this would come as a total shock

    On a site dedicated to political betting, I suggest that makes my commentary notably more useful than yours. Also funnier
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197
    Heathener said:

    Emma Raducanu in blistering form at Wimbledon this afternoon beating Elise Mertens 6-1, 6-2. Mertens is no slouch in women’s tennis.

    I tipped her on here a fortnight ago at 38/1. She now in at 12’s and that’s likely to shorten very quickly on this kind of form.

    Do I think Emma will lift the title? No. Well, probably not. But it’s great to see her playing so well again today. She is showing how and why she won the US Open at the age of 18.

    Stunning play.

    @ClippP

    Great play from the Brit. Lets hope its a few more rounds before the Romanian loses.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,392
    My wife tells me that we had a large group of Labour canvassers today. They claimed that Labour was now in second place in the seat. I haven't had time to look at these MRPs but I very seriously doubt that. Labour were absolutely nowhere in Angus the last time.

    I was trying to work out what was going on. Do they really think that the Labour vote is so much up that it is worth spending money and resources the day before polling in a seat that must be beyond the reach of even this landslide? Are they so confident that they are going to pick up Dundee that they don't need to do more there? Are they simply so swamped with resources that they are struggling to find a use for them all?

    Personally, I think the SNP will hold on here (Angus and the Perthshire Glens) but I would be quite cross if a lift in the Labour vote splits the Unionist vote and helps the SNP hang on. Its not in Labour's interests either although I appreciate that a lot of their supporters would be horrified to help a Tory, even indirectly.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,122
    Leon said:

    As late as mid June of this year, @Anabobazina was trying to dismiss evidence that Biden was senile


    "At the end of this article, there is more on Biden at the G7 and the claim that he just wandered off is debunked": https://apnews.com/article/trump-mental-acuity-gaffe-biden-ronny-jackson-0d45b6d89ae295b690f5ad12ca0bd38a

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4837697/#Comment_4837697


    Recall, this is after at least a YEAR of evidence - some of it brazen and blatant - that Biden was going gaga. Even by mid June the very dumbest of PB-ers - eg @Anabobazina - were trying to discount it and ignore it

    Not unrelatedly, @Anabobazina was possibly the last PBer to defend the Wet Market Hypothesis

    There really is a weird mental phenomenon at work here, where educated (but not very intelligent) people will deliberately believe insane things if the alternative makes them uncomfortable. It is the cerebration of toddlers. The mentality of the impaired

    It's EXACTLY the same as Lab leak, and is as simple as this: "If Trump says it, we must disagree with it."
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,516
    Pulpstar said:

    Don't think I've ever seen anything as preposterous as Betfair implying Gavin Newsom or Michelle Obama have a bigger combined chance than Biden of winning the election

    It's just a bet on Biden being the nominee basically. Has the market got ahead of itself - maybe. Will he be the nominee - no.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,248
    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    I'm a sad obsessive fucker.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    You just see whatever you want to see. That’s been apparent all campaign.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    As late as mid June of this year, @Anabobazina was trying to dismiss evidence that Biden was senile


    "At the end of this article, there is more on Biden at the G7 and the claim that he just wandered off is debunked": https://apnews.com/article/trump-mental-acuity-gaffe-biden-ronny-jackson-0d45b6d89ae295b690f5ad12ca0bd38a

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4837697/#Comment_4837697


    Recall, this is after at least a YEAR of evidence - some of it brazen and blatant - that Biden was going gaga. Even by mid June the very dumbest of PB-ers - eg @Anabobazina - were trying to discount it and ignore it

    Not unrelatedly, @Anabobazina was possibly the last PBer to defend the Wet Market Hypothesis

    There really is a weird mental phenomenon at work here, where educated (but not very intelligent) people will deliberately believe insane things if the alternative makes them uncomfortable. It is the cerebration of toddlers. The mentality of the impaired

    It's EXACTLY the same as Lab leak, and is as simple as this: "If Trump says it, we must disagree with it."
    Yes precisely. And it's fucking DUMB as SHIT
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Follow back, pro Europe.
    It was a way for remainers to meet more of their kind and avoid nasty brexit people
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Euronutter
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,536
    Pulpstar said:

    Don't think I've ever seen anything as preposterous as Betfair implying Gavin Newsom or Michelle Obama have a bigger combined chance than Biden of winning the election

    Biden is a tiny chance now. And if ain’t Kamala there’s a fairly short list.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    "Too Long: Didn't Read". Used as a synonym for "In summary"
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077

    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Follow back, pro Europe.
    It was a way for remainers to meet more of their kind and avoid nasty brexit people
    Ah okay, thanks
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
    I was accused of raving on about Biden having dementia, six months ago, a year ago, or more - even as half of PB denied that he had dementia, and scoffed at my "Trumpite messaging"

    Now the President, it seems, is resigning because he has dementia

    If lurkers read me on this forum, they would know this seismic event was highly likely; if they read you or any of the other halfwits, they'd be entirely clueless and this would come as a total shock

    On a site dedicated to political betting, I suggest that makes my commentary notably more useful than yours. Also funnier
    Only because you’re such an obvious figure of fun.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252

    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Follow back, pro Europe.
    It was a way for remainers to meet more of their kind and avoid nasty brexit people
    I always thought it really meant "Fuck Brexit Pro Europe"
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,077
    Right, time to watch the Manx Missile.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142
    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    "Follow back Pro Europe". It was a hashtag used by Remainers on Twitter after the referendum so they could identify each other.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 99

    The campaign has reached the Gordon Brown intervention stage:

    https://x.com/gordonbrown/status/1808531042975756594

    Interesting what he doesn’t say more than what he does say

    More anti-Tory and Reform than pro-Labour and Starmer
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,638

    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    I'm a sad obsessive fucker.
    Skip the confession and answer the question?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,605
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    Too long didn't read
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 664

    DM_Andy said:

    Imagine the faces in the audience and the meltdown here if the exit poll is read out at 10pm as "Conservatives 30 Majority".....

    You would make a lot of money. I suspect if Tory high command thought that an overall majority was possible then the odds would be a lot lower.
    Someone would. 100-1 on Ladbrokes.

    Nobody in their right mind would take that price.

    It’s 370 on Betfair.

    Three hundred and seventy.
    Might actually make sense as a trading bet. Not cause it will happen, but cause the exit poll may screw up in enough of a way as to cause some forlorn hope...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,122
    Just had a long conversation with my teenage daughter. They had a mock election at school. She voted Green. Most people did, apparently. It depressed me.
    But she said that there was essentially one reason for hers and everyone else's vote: tuition fees.
    And it makes perfect sense. As adults we have quickly got used to the situation where we expect the next generation to start adulthood in crippling levels of debt. But why should we be? It's ridiculous. To be honest, if that were the Green's only policy I'd vote for them in a shot. Umfortunately they come with a lot of other baggage.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,182
    MikeL said:

    Take a look at the Wiki poll graph for the campaign only (second blob option).

    Lab started at 45.5 and has moved in almost a straight line downwards to now stand at 39.

    If it is a Con wipeout it begs the question what would have happened if the GE had been before the campaign.

    Campaign movements:

    Lab: start 45.5, now 39 (down 6.5)
    Con: start 24, now 21.5 (down 2.5)
    Ref: start 11, now 16 (up 5)
    LD: start 9, now 11 (up 2)
    Green: start 5.5, now 6.5 (up 1)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Very interesting. The Conservative fall is easily explained given the rise of Reform and the campaign mishaps. The much larger Labour fall is much more of a mystery. Especially given Starmer’s personal ratings have been rising at the same time.

    There could be a mixture of reasons. A few:

    - Left wing voters peeling away to independents and greens
    - Tactical voting Dutch salutes
    - Leaking some votes to Reform in the Red Wall
    - Some recovery of the SNP during the campaign
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting feature of many of the recent MRPs is the way they've been showing the Tories surprisingly close to winning in Ynys Môn despite defending a majority of only 1,968 (5.4%).

    YouGov MRP, Ynys Môn:

    Lab 29%
    Con 27%
    PC 25%
    Ref 13%
    LD 4%
    Grn 2%

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49950-final-yougov-mrp-shows-labour-on-course-for-historic-election-victory

    The sole Tory Welsh seat being Ynys Mon would be Keith Bestastic
    By two votes. BigG and Mrs BigG :)
    I believe the Gs are in Aberconwy.
    I wouldn't put it past them to sneak past the guards and swim to the island, dodging the searchlights and guard leeks. Them's cunning, the family BigG... :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,651
    edited July 3

    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Follow back, pro Europe.
    It was a way for remainers to meet more of their kind and avoid nasty brexit people
    The awkward cringiness of the acronym - Follow Back, Pro Europe, really??? - captures the wankiness of the people that adopt it

    Remoaners are their own worst enemies. I mean, Steve Bray, is he helping? @Scott_xP - is he persuading anyone on here?

    If they had an ounce of humour it would help enormously. But they are so deadly earnest, and earnestly relentless. It has some of the less pleasant aspects of dogmatic religious faith

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,405
    So here’s a fun question. You’re the new U.K. pm, which world leader do you visit first? Normally a no brainer, but maybe not this time.

    I reckon the Irish PM.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,122
    Cookie said:

    Just had a long conversation with my teenage daughter. They had a mock election at school. She voted Green. Most people did, apparently. It depressed me.
    But she said that there was essentially one reason for hers and everyone else's vote: tuition fees.
    And it makes perfect sense. As adults we have quickly got used to the situation where we expect the next generation to start adulthood in crippling levels of debt. But why should we be? It's ridiculous. To be honest, if that were the Green's only policy I'd vote for them in a shot. Umfortunately they come with a lot of other baggage.

    She also asked me who I was going to vote for. Something of an essay question which I still don't know the answer to. But the more I talk it through the more I think the answer might be SDP.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,998
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    "Too Long, Didn´t Read".... I thought you were supposed to be down with the kids...

    I expect quite a few:

    ROFL
    FFS
    OMFG
    BYOB
    TGIF
    FUBAR
    BFD
    SNAFU
    LMAO
    WTF

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,516
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
    I was accused of raving on about Biden having dementia, six months ago, a year ago, or more - even as half of PB denied that he had dementia, and scoffed at my "Trumpite messaging"

    Now the President, it seems, is resigning because he has dementia

    If lurkers read me on this forum, they would know this seismic event was highly likely; if they read you or any of the other halfwits, they'd be entirely clueless and this would come as a total shock

    On a site dedicated to political betting, I suggest that makes my commentary notably more useful than yours. Also funnier
    Come along. You get accused of raving on about things precisely because you rave on about things. Inevitably you can point back to situations where you've been accused of raving on about things and have been proven correct!

    If you printed out your commentary it'd be very useful indeed - especially if done so on thin paper in long rolls.

    (FWIW I think you do have a rather good insight into quite a lot of issues - perhaps it's all that travel)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,248
    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,142
    Jonathan said:

    So here’s a fun question. You’re the new U.K. pm, which world leader do you visit first? Normally a no brainer, but maybe not this time.

    I reckon the Irish PM.

    Ukraine. (and I'm not sure that's a joke)
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    I’m seeing lots of FBPE people saying that Starmer has lost their vote over his EU comments. Could make the difference for the Lib Dems in a few seats.

    Another one. Argh. Can you remind me what FBPE stands for please?
    Follow back, pro Europe.
    It was a way for remainers to meet more of their kind and avoid nasty brexit people
    The awkward cringiness of the acronym - Follow Back, Pro Europe, really??? - captures the wankiness of the people that adopt it

    Remoaners are their own worst enemies. I mean, Steve Bray, is he helping? @Scott_xP - is he persuading anyone on here?

    If they had an ounce of humour it would help enormously. But they are so deadly earnest, and earnestly relentless. It has some of the less pleasant aspects of dogmatic religious faith

    Along the same lines as the European Research Group which never did any research on Europe or anything else for that matter. :D
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,558
    Apparently Biden has just told his campaign staff he’s staying in the race.

    The man is quite possibly more mad than I realised. The game’s up, Joe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037

    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?

    No, I think that's correct to expect an underperformance.

    I just think it won't be as big an underperformance as before.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,867
    I probably shouldn't share, but one street canvassed this afternoon in South Devon shows how difficult it is to know what is really going on:

    Deffo Con 9, possible Con 8, Not voting 3, LibDem 1, Green 1, Reform 0. Not in 19.

    So how will that street vote tomorrow?



  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,405

    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?

    The relative weakness of Sunak. We’ve not had that 1:1 matchup. But I expect you’re right.

    (Hope you’re ok btw, its a bit rubbish for you at the moment)
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    ‘Raving on’ about things that are either so entirely obvious to most of us that we simply scroll on by, or are so patently loopy that we simply scroll on by, isn’t doing you any favours tbh.
    I was accused of raving on about Biden having dementia, six months ago, a year ago, or more - even as half of PB denied that he had dementia, and scoffed at my "Trumpite messaging"

    Now the President, it seems, is resigning because he has dementia

    If lurkers read me on this forum, they would know this seismic event was highly likely; if they read you or any of the other halfwits, they'd be entirely clueless and this would come as a total shock

    On a site dedicated to political betting, I suggest that makes my commentary notably more useful than yours. Also funnier
    Come along. You get accused of raving on about things precisely because you rave on about things. Inevitably you can point back to situations where you've been accused of raving on about things and have been proven correct!

    If you printed out your commentary it'd be very useful indeed - especially if done so on thin paper in long rolls.

    (FWIW I think you do have a rather good insight into quite a lot of issues - perhaps it's all that travel)
    Ignore them. Without eccentric quirky posters like you and Malcolm the site would be a boring echo chamber of Lib Dems to the right of their party and conservatives to the Left of their party splitting hairs about their version of essentially the same (wrong) policies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197

    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?

    Shy refukkers seems at least as plausible as shy Tories.
    Its the first election they have taken seriously.
    The government have been really, really bad so voters looking for a change but might not be Labour/LD inclined.

    Of course they might continue to do worse than their polling but I'd back 3/1 they do better than the polling too.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,516

    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?

    Because the Tory party is a vacated space apart from Braverman trying to steal whatever's going. I hate that it is so.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,603

    Reform have underperformed in every election over the last 2 years compared to their polling.

    Can anyone explain to me why it'd be different just because Nigel Farage turns up in the last 4 weeks?

    I still think REF will get 10% max maybe less

    Only realistic chances are Ashfield and Clacton. Not impossible they get neither
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:

    Thoughts on what initial exit polling may (not) reveal tomorrow night:

    Here's a longer thread on just some of the challenges I think there are to interpretation tomorrow night.

    https://x.com/ProfJaneGreen/status/1808543010499801579

    TLDR: the exit poll and/or the number of projected seats may be wrong. It's best to wait a bit before making conclusive observations and assigning praise/blame.
    What the hell is TLDR?

    I do hope election night isn’t full of acronyms.
    WTF?
    IDK

    Should there be a site policy banning TLAs?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,801
    .
    Jonathan said:

    So here’s a fun question. You’re the new U.K. pm, which world leader do you visit first? Normally a no brainer, but maybe not this time.

    I reckon the Irish PM.

    No. Zelenskyy.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,056
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/tomfitton/status/1808520385954029594?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    Sounds like Biden is done. Only question left are whether they go with Kamala, which realistically means she becomes president now for the benefit of incumbency. Or a West Wing open convention. Pretty obvs what we all want here!

    All the many many people who scoffed and chortled at my “Biden is senile” remarks, or who accused me of using trumpite talking points, can now grovel apologetically and pour sour ashes over their heads and make vast contributions to my favourite charity - the Make Leon Rich Society - as the President is about to resign on the grounds of senility

    And then you might profitably ask yourself how you keep getting these things wrong as I get them right
    Plenty of people on here said he was senile.

    Seriously, watching you strut around like a peacock with a superiority complex is like observing a parade of one. Your undisputed talent is to make every conversation, no matter how unrelated, about yourself. You're like a human black hole of dialogue, sucking in all attention and leaving nothing but the cold, empty vacuum of your self-importance. Your arrogance has made your UFO shite self-fulfilling - who the fuck needs the Earth's gravity when your ego sucks in alien craft from Andromeda.
    That took you an hour to write, didn't it?

    Here's Rochdale Pioneers from February of this year:

    "I read @Leon raving on about Biden having dementia...."


    Apparently I was raving on. Rave on, Leon, Rave on

    Is that it? One partial quote with no link? What happened to the spreadsheet you made? What happened to the dozens of hilarious posts from me?

    Very disappointing, it's almost getting hard to take you seriously any more.
This discussion has been closed.