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This bodes ill for the Tories & Reform – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,849
edited June 27 in General
This bodes ill for the Tories & Reform – politicalbetting.com

Latest YouGov party leader favourability ratings (25-26 June)Rishi Sunak: -56Keir Starmer: -20Nigel Farage: -39Ed Davey: -8 (40% "don't know")Carla Denyer: -8 (71% "don't know")Adrian Ramsay: -11 (78% "don't know")https://t.co/YDTxRRR405 pic.twitter.com/0qVtLYR9NP

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231
    first as Labour will be.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Second like the LDs
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231
    Third like the Tories (in seats but not votes)
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,071
    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/
  • Options
    Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 315

    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.

    Boring campaign, expected exciting results
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231
    edited June 27

    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.

    In what way is it boring - every day the Tories do something where you think WTAF?

    Today's example is this https://x.com/conservatives/status/1806291306064339155

    Telling people that Labour will ban fire and rehire and zero hour contracts is going to encourage exactly what demographic to vote Tory?

    It's even worse than the ULEZ adverts from earlier today given that a lot of people have compliant cars...
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,418
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    I assume lefties subscribe to the Telegraph in huge numbers :lol:
  • Options
    FPT.
    Leon said:

    "The second and third Covid lockdowns were the biggest ever mistake made by a British government in peacetime, Nigel Farage has said."

    The Reform UK leader is speaking to 1,000 people at the Rainton Arena. [In Sunderland]

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/27/general-election-live-sunak-starmer-farage/

    I completely agree with him on that and so do many many people I know - of all political persuasions. If only he’d said that instead of his horrible Putin piffle reform would probably now be on 25% and the Tories on 13%
    To be fair though it was more of a well aimed Yorker by Toenails forcing a defensive shot that went to silly point than a crazy reverse sweep on a ball that was heading for middle stump.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,310
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Allister Heath really isn't worth reading.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,697
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    I don't know about lefties.

    The headline offers hope for the growing share of the population that thinks Brexit was a mistake
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    To which Casino's view seemed to be Armageddonoutahere.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,697
    @ITVNewsPolitics

    Sunak is asked multiple times whether he told his aide Craig Williams about the date of the election before he put a bet on it

    The PM refuses to answer - saying he can't comment during 'ongoing investigations'

    https://x.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1806297019310309405
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,024

    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.

    I thought it was dull the first couple of weeks. D-Day Gate and Torygeddon have really spiced it up though.

    The sad thing about it is that there’s been precious little debate on policy and direction and more a series of rather dull and dutiful Labour announcements and the Tories flailing around screaming TAX in everyone’s faces.

    I have long since resigned myself to the fact that political discourse in this country is rubbish. But I did expect a little more. Some more interesting policies from Labour. An actual Tory campaign. You know, the basic stuff.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    eek said:

    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.

    In what way is it boring - every day the Tories do something where you think WTAF?

    Today's example is this https://x.com/conservatives/status/1806291306064339155

    Telling people that Labour will ban fire and rehire and zero hour contracts is going to encourage exactly what demographic to vote Tory?

    It's even worse than the ULEZ adverts from earlier today given that a lot of people have compliant cars...
    Good point, you've swayed me. It's gone on two weeks too long though.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,636
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Why would they bother reading such inane ramblings from clowns like Heath?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,174
    These new Tory attack ads. They see Gargantua, they feel the gravity well sucking them every closer, and decide that the best way to escape their political event horizon is to fire the rocket boosters to accelerate *towards* the black hole.

    Every day of this campaign brings new joy.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    To which Casino's view seemed to be Armageddonoutahere.
    Except it seems his family doesn't want to.

    My advice to CR would be to find the company / project you want to work on and then use that as a basis to work out where you will end up..
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,850
    Are the Greens a dark horse in this election? Maybe the polling isn't as wonky as I've assumed.

    Great favourability ratings. Gaza. Climate change. Complacent lefties. Maybe a decent vote share?

    This election might end up all about the smaller parties. Labour's support might be an inch deep - but support for the left looks solid.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,697
    @ChloeKeedyITV

    Ed Davey has confirmed that he placed a winning bet on the outcome of the North Shropshire by-election in 2021, but this morning repeatedly refused to tell me how much money he’s made betting on elections. Said he ‘doesn’t think’ more than £1000 but ‘may have made a little bit’
  • Options
    DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 366

    TimS said:

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (24-25 June)

    Lab: 36% (-1 from 19-20 Jun)
    Con: 18% (-1)
    Reform UK: 17% (-1)
    Lib Dem: 15% (+2)
    Green: 8% (+2)
    SNP: 3% (=)


    https://x.com/yougov/status/1806283514288988386?s=61&t=c6bcp0cjChLfQN5Tc8A_6g

    Even down at 36% that's still a 230 majority. LDs also the OO on that poll, even if CorRef merge...

    Con 56, Lab 440, LD 82, Ref 22, Green 4, SNP 23, PC 4, Others 19
    I'm still scratching my head at the ludicrous Green shares some pollsters persist in publishing. And this one is up two. Something is happening with the Green party. It's odd, they've had virtually no coverage yet there they are.

    LLG is up 3 and RefCon down 2 in that poll. LLG 59, RefCon 35. So despite looking very different from other pollsters on individual parties it's bang on average on a left vs right basis.
    There is a serious chance we will surprise everyone.
    I was short lib dem seats at 56, I just closed it at 57, the risk/reward of maintaining that position on a couple of polls like that makes no sense.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,899
    edited June 27
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:



    Apols if already mentioned x

    And a large number of those 3 million will have been undecided or wavering voters, who will vote but had not yet made up their mind.

    If you were already decided as Tory or Labour or Reform you would be watching the football unless a politics geek
    Evidence please?

    How do you know that they are not the party faithful, journalists, and political nerds?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231
    edited June 27

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,173
    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,343
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    "Make the most of living in Conservative Britain"

    Yeah, ok, you fucking speccy twat, we'll do just that.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,024
    edited June 27
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Oh give it a rest (the journo, that is)!. If anything this election proves that the post-1987 centrist consensus lives on. We’re going to get a government in a weeks time that has been desperate to play its centrist pro-businesses cards and to avoid anything that will scare the horses. And if it fails, it’s not the left that are going to be poised to succeed - it’s much more likely to be the populist right.
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    I assume lefties subscribe to the Telegraph in huge numbers :lol:
    Fox News is the go to for them.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 29,071
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    "Make the most of living in Conservative Britain"

    Yeah, ok, you fucking speccy twat, we'll do just that.
    Addressing Heath I hope, not me. 😊
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,381

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,343
    Scott_xP said:

    @ITVNewsPolitics

    Sunak is asked multiple times whether he told his aide Craig Williams about the date of the election before he put a bet on it

    The PM refuses to answer - saying he can't comment during 'ongoing investigations'

    https://x.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1806297019310309405

    He has to let Sue Grey do her work. Which she will be from next Friday.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    ...NHS waiting lists were short, immigration was lower, housing was affordable, trade with Europe was frictionless...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ITVNewsPolitics

    Sunak is asked multiple times whether he told his aide Craig Williams about the date of the election before he put a bet on it

    The PM refuses to answer - saying he can't comment during 'ongoing investigations'

    https://x.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1806297019310309405

    He has to let Sue Grey do her work. Which she will be from next Friday.
    Gray!
  • Options
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    These people are praying?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,231
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Had that in Guadeloupe. You are behind the bar, I want a drink, surely that's extra money for 30 seconds work...
  • Options
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Anglais? Oui. Merde.
  • Options
    Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 315
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    French don't expect to work before lunchtime......
  • Options
    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,676

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    These people are praying?
    I see the hokey-cokey.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,425
    I actually thought the Tories' Angela Rayner add was quite good (depending on the targeting). Leon has often told us that French restaurants are in decline because their employment laws mean you can't sack crap kitchen staff. So if you can tap into the fears of that globe-trotting, fine-dining niche...
  • Options
    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    French don't expect to work before lunchtime......
    Or work at all!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,173

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    By the same logic the Greens could get 41% of the vote.
    Nah

    Saying you have a favourable view of the greens is like saying you “prefer clean rivers” and “please don’t chop down lovely trees”. Who has an issue with any of that? Most people aren’t aware the greens are now insane Woke Marxists

    By contrast everyone knows Farage is basically Hitler and yet he has 27% favourability? I know PB doesn’t like hearing this but there is a decent possibility Britain will go down the same hard right road as France Holland Sweden and Italy
  • Options
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Had that in Guadeloupe. You are behind the bar, I want a drink, surely that's extra money for 30 seconds work...
    Definitely.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Maybe you shouldn't have shouted "Oi, garçon, beer!" as you walked in?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,895
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    It's behind a paywall. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. 😀

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,310
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Perhaps he is a Gazette reader and recognised you from the cartoon caricature, and is offended by your writing.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,207
    Scott_xP said:

    @ChloeKeedyITV

    Ed Davey has confirmed that he placed a winning bet on the outcome of the North Shropshire by-election in 2021, but this morning repeatedly refused to tell me how much money he’s made betting on elections. Said he ‘doesn’t think’ more than £1000 but ‘may have made a little bit’

    Again, not an issue. It's only a problem (in my view) when you back against yourself. The bookies cry foul when someone knows more than they know and can take them for a few quid which given their huge individual and collective wealth isn't an issue for me.

    Many of us on here bet on politics and some may well have excellent sources of information (I wouldn't know). If that information gives them a better chance I'm struggling to see the problem.

    There's a fear (I think) betting moves influence how people vote - if we took that line we'd ban opinion polls.

    If I saw Ed Davey or Allister Jack in a betting shop having a bet would it influence my vote? No. If I saw Rishi Sunak or Keir Starmer in my local Paddy Power having a bet would it influence my vote? Again, no.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,454
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    By the same logic the Greens could get 41% of the vote.
    Nah

    Saying you have a favourable view of the greens is like saying you “prefer clean rivers” and “please don’t chop down lovely trees”. Who has an issue with any of that? Most people aren’t aware the greens are now insane Woke Marxists

    By contrast everyone knows Farage is basically Hitler and yet he has 27% favourability? I know PB doesn’t like hearing this but there is a decent possibility Britain will go down the same hard right road as France Holland Sweden and Italy
    It's a fear for sure. 27% though - even FPTP would make it hard to win power on that.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    It's behind a paywall. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind. 😀

    Make the country great again like the USA.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,636
    ....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    edited June 27
    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    I think they shot that fox. Reform needed to have overtaken the Tories in most polls this week and then squeeze Tory voters further as the main alternative to Labour.

    They didn't and Farage made his Putin gaffe so the Tories retain second and like Australia, Germany, Spain and New Zealand the centre right will remain ahead of the hard right, whereas Farage clearly wanted the UK to become like France or Sweden or Italy or Canada 1993 where the hard right overtook the centre right (the US in between, the GOP still the main party of the right but effectively so infected with Trumpism and led by Trump now for the moment it is a hard nationalist right party)
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,636
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ITVNewsPolitics

    Sunak is asked multiple times whether he told his aide Craig Williams about the date of the election before he put a bet on it

    The PM refuses to answer - saying he can't comment during 'ongoing investigations'

    https://x.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1806297019310309405

    He has to let Sue Grey do her work. Which she will be from next Friday.
    Gray

    G-R-A-Y.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Maybe you shouldn't have shouted "Oi, garçon, beer!" as you walked in?
    Sent Ray Winstone From Sexy Beast in and Ben Kingsley. They would have dealt with the problem.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,805

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    If I hadn't seen the debate last night, I'd think that's so bad it has to be fake surely?

    Still so bad it could be fake, but the amount of times he said surrender last night ... where the hell has that come from and who on earth thinks that's a good or appropriate way to be speaking.

    Sunak is truly the worst possible person who could lead the Tories into this election.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,492
    FPT
    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    This dosent feel like 1997. It feels like Majors exhausted and despised party of 1997 up against Kinnocks disliked Labour of 1992 and the SDP of 1983 performing Reforms disruptor role.

    Feel is important in an election. In 1997 it was obvious Labour were whupping the Tories. You could taste it. In 2010? The Tories would have won that had we not had the Cleggasm. In the 2015 Stockton South campaign the wheel had fallen off the Labour bus weeks before polling day with fractious infighting within the camp. And with door after door saying they liked our candidate but feared Alex Salmond, we knew in our guts it wasn't going well. 2017? I co-authored and strategised Dr Paul Williams winning campaign. No infighting as we simply shut the party out, and won.

    This time? I'm telling you, there is something in the air which the pollsters aren't picking up at least here in the true North East. That isn't me confidently saying we will win. But we're in the battle and getting heard and picking up support.

    We know how the Tories feel. They feel that they are heading for the cliffs. Sunak out campaigning in seats they hold by 25k, kids with crayons running the social media campaign, and coming out swinging in the debates hoping desperately to land a punch on Penfold...
    It feels the same here in Dorset but... the 'reluctantly going to vote Tory' voices on here make me think it will end up disappointingly much closer than the polls suggest.
    just observer bias imho- On a site like this you get lots of "tories" - by definition they are politicly engaged (why would they be on the site if not) and therefore will at some point be angry with whats happened either by the government or by the campaign - Of this mass a lot will then not vote tory again but probably then dont feel the need to admit who they are going to vote for instead but some out of the mass will state they are "reluctantly " going to vote tory. Nothing that contradicts the polls ,indeed supports them , otherwise the tories would be on zero percent .

    I for instance have voted tory at all general elections but will this time vote Reform .
    I have a moral dilemma here. I have two votes. Two postal votes. One for me and one for my ex wife (who is now in distant parts and doesn’t care)

    How shall I cast them? I am torn between starmer (to give him a chance and annoy @kinabalu) and Reform (I want the Tories destroyed and every vote for Reform adds to that)

    However my two vote sitch seems to solve the dilemma. I shall personally vote for Starmer but my ex wife will vote Reform. Sorted
    Don't cast the one for the ex-wife unless she tells you to because although you probably wouldn't be prosecuted that would be a crime and you just confessed to it on the internet.
    Isn't it actually an offence to complete, even if you have a verbal instruction from the person?

    @PBLawyers?
    Yes. See my and @TheScreamingEagles post. @leon posting on a subject he has no knowledge as usual. I mean on a site full of people who are experts on elections. How many ex Agents are here. Lots I expect.
    A question to ask about the above would be about how an ex wife who doesn't care is registered to vote anyway?
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    This dosent feel like 1997. It feels like Majors exhausted and despised party of 1997 up against Kinnocks disliked Labour of 1992 and the SDP of 1983 performing Reforms disruptor role.

    Feel is important in an election. In 1997 it was obvious Labour were whupping the Tories. You could taste it. In 2010? The Tories would have won that had we not had the Cleggasm. In the 2015 Stockton South campaign the wheel had fallen off the Labour bus weeks before polling day with fractious infighting within the camp. And with door after door saying they liked our candidate but feared Alex Salmond, we knew in our guts it wasn't going well. 2017? I co-authored and strategised Dr Paul Williams winning campaign. No infighting as we simply shut the party out, and won.

    This time? I'm telling you, there is something in the air which the pollsters aren't picking up at least here in the true North East. That isn't me confidently saying we will win. But we're in the battle and getting heard and picking up support.

    We know how the Tories feel. They feel that they are heading for the cliffs. Sunak out campaigning in seats they hold by 25k, kids with crayons running the social media campaign, and coming out swinging in the debates hoping desperately to land a punch on Penfold...
    It feels the same here in Dorset but... the 'reluctantly going to vote Tory' voices on here make me think it will end up disappointingly much closer than the polls suggest.
    just observer bias imho- On a site like this you get lots of "tories" - by definition they are politicly engaged (why would they be on the site if not) and therefore will at some point be angry with whats happened either by the government or by the campaign - Of this mass a lot will then not vote tory again but probably then dont feel the need to admit who they are going to vote for instead but some out of the mass will state they are "reluctantly " going to vote tory. Nothing that contradicts the polls ,indeed supports them , otherwise the tories would be on zero percent .

    I for instance have voted tory at all general elections but will this time vote Reform .
    I have a moral dilemma here. I have two votes. Two postal votes. One for me and one for my ex wife (who is now in distant parts and doesn’t care)

    How shall I cast them? I am torn between starmer (to give him a chance and annoy @kinabalu) and Reform (I want the Tories destroyed and every vote for Reform adds to that)

    However my two vote sitch seems to solve the dilemma. I shall personally vote for Starmer but my ex wife will vote Reform. Sorted
    Don't cast the one for the ex-wife unless she tells you to because although you probably wouldn't be prosecuted that would be a crime and you just confessed to it on the internet.
    Isn't it actually an offence to complete, even if you have a verbal instruction from the person?

    @PBLawyers?
    Yes. See my and @TheScreamingEagles post. @leon posting on a subject he has no knowledge as usual. I mean on a site full of people who are experts on elections. How many ex Agents are here. Lots I expect.
    ITS. A. JOKE

    Omg
    I do know that. I know you are just winding us up.

    Interested to know if you knew though that you couldn't do it if instructed to do so? Also interested to know if you know it is easy to check if you have done it, although it takes a court order.

    So if you did do it and write an article the authorities might consider it worth checking because it was publicised and you wouldn't get away with saying it was a joke when they pull the ballot paper out.
    Ok I’ll run with. It was a joke - I wanted to see how many pompous people on PB would lose their humour-free nuts and get riled. Quite a few it seems

    However I am now genuinely interested. Her postal vote really is in my flat (I’ve no idea why she still gets it - she registered here for the 2019 GE but she’s not been here since 2020). I wonder how often that happens and how many people post multiple votes?

    Because I could easily do it and no one would know. Tho if I was going to do it I would not announce it on a public forum. OBVS
    I have the postal vote for my mother, in a care home with dementia, and could probably do the same. Yet I am fairly sure that an LPA doesn’t extend to voting matters.

    Most such occurrences probably occur spontaneously on impulse, and people don’t realise that a photo of the original signature is held on record. If you look at the stats for a constituency declaration, there are usually postal votes rejected, often a fair few of them, and my guess is that most of these are from such situations. Quite possibly people think it’s OK, because their partner working away, or whatever, has agreed to it. But the votes are rejected all the same, The extent to which rejected votes are later investigated is up to the ERO, but if it looked really dodgy - for example several rejected with the same handwriting - it certainly should be.
    Interesting. So they literally check every postal vote? That must really slow up the count on the night as they have to check every postal vote that is put in the ballot box on the day?
    All postal votes received before polling day are verified at separate verification counts, held in the runup to polling day. Those received at the last minute are verified at the first stage of the election night count.

    The parties are entitled to send observers to the PV verification counts, just as they are to the main count, and if the observers are there, it’s even more likely that the checking will be thorough and anything that looks suspect will be set aside. Because the voter’s identity details are visible, every ERO will know to keep the actual ballot paper face down throughout this process.

    Parties often don’t bother to observe the verification count, because it’s mostly a waste of time - even if you make a difference by challenging something the counting agent hasn’t spotted or was going to let through, you have no way of knowing whether a challenge helps or hinders your candidate.

    But it’s a handy job to send someone who, for various possible reasons, you don’t want to trust knocking on doors, when you’ve run out of things to deliver, because it seems more important than it is, and people are usually keen to go, at least for the first time. If they are very lucky they just might see the X on a few ballots as they are pulled out of envelopes, if the voter has foolishly folded them with the voting side facing outwards, and by the time they get back to HQ they will be pressed for any info - because it’s the only actually data on completed ballots on offer at the time. So the one or two votes the hapless helper has actually seen will have turned into “I saw a few votes”, through the natural tendency to exaggerate and desire to appear important (I am sure you can understand), and by the time the story has been passed around, and reached the media if it’s a key election or by-election, Chinese whispers will have turned it into “party Z is ahead on the postal votes” and occasionally we see such nonsense posted here by people who don’t understand how these things go.

    So, yes, they’re checked individually and usually thoroughly. Such that any count result that doesn’t reject some of its postal votes should be regarded with some suspicion.
    Hang on, aren't the ballot papers put into a second envelope which is only opened on the night? So checking the signature shouldn't reveal the vote anyway?
    The verification process also cross-checks the serial number on the back of the ballot paper matches the one that the voter was sent. So everything is opened and checked at verification stage. Once this is done, the ballot paper is separated from all the supporting paperwork and dropped into a ballot box, ready to be mixed in with the papers from the polling station, once these latter have been verified at the main count.

  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,836
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    They don’t like big groups of English in their bars. I mean there’s you, LadyG, Sir Eadric, SeanT, that author, the travel writer from the speccy who goes everywhere with you. That’s six of you being rowdy and drunk.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,173

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Maybe you shouldn't have shouted "Oi, garçon, beer!" as you walked in?
    I actually practised my French as I walked in!

    And to be fair his wife rolled his eyes at his attitude and then politely served me

    Also I’m a FRIEND OF THE FUCKING MAYOR WHO TOLD ME ABOUT THE U-BOAT so he can fuck off the stupid cheese eating tittywank
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,556

    These new Tory attack ads. They see Gargantua, they feel the gravity well sucking them every closer, and decide that the best way to escape their political event horizon is to fire the rocket boosters to accelerate *towards* the black hole.

    Every day of this campaign brings new joy.

    Until we then enter the Tesseract, go back in time, and find out the electorate are secretly signalling us to S.T.A.Y.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    edited June 27
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:



    Apols if already mentioned x

    And a large number of those 3 million will have been undecided or wavering voters, who will vote but had not yet made up their mind.

    If you were already decided as Tory or Labour or Reform you would be watching the football unless a politics geek
    Evidence please?

    How do you know that they are not the party faithful, journalists, and political nerds?
    For starters, 3 million is almost 10 times the combined membership of the Tory and Labour parties and about the current nightly audience for Eastenders
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,895
    Eabhal said:

    Are the Greens a dark horse in this election? Maybe the polling isn't as wonky as I've assumed.

    Great favourability ratings. Gaza. Climate change. Complacent lefties. Maybe a decent vote share?

    This election might end up all about the smaller parties. Labour's support might be an inch deep - but support for the left looks solid.

    It's almost like somebody wrote an article about how the Greens are one of the few British parties offering a utopia, which is electorally attractive.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/05/12/solarpunk/
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,556
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    That one's not too bad, actually.

    It actually plays half-well to the fears of lots of centre-right voters.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,492
    edited June 27
    eek said:

    This is the most boring campaign and yet at the same time the most exciting election of my lifetime.

    In what way is it boring - every day the Tories do something where you think WTAF?

    Today's example is this https://x.com/conservatives/status/1806291306064339155

    Telling people that Labour will ban fire and rehire and zero hour contracts is going to encourage exactly what demographic to vote Tory?

    It's even worse than the ULEZ adverts from earlier today given that a lot of people have compliant cars...
    More than three weeks in, the Tories still haven’t decided whether Starmer is a clueless man without any sort of plan, or a cunning genius keeping secret his evil plan.

    It reminds me of the campaign when Blair was simultaneously Bambi and Demon Eyes.
  • Options
    DopermeanDopermean Posts: 69

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    ...NHS waiting lists were short, immigration was lower, housing was affordable, trade with Europe was frictionless...
    you could live and/or work anywhere in the EU
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 50,173
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    I think they shot that fox. Reform needed to have overtaken the Tories in most polls this week and then squeeze Tory voters further as the main alternative to Labour.

    They didn't and Farage made his Putin gaffe so the Tories retain second and like Australia, Germany, Spain and New Zealand the centre right will remain ahead of the hard right, whereas Farage clearly wanted the UK to become like France or Sweden or Italy or Canada 1993 where the hard right overtook the centre right (the US in between, the GOP still the main party of the right but effectively so infected with Trumpism and led by Trump now for the moment it is a hard nationalist right party)
    Maybe. But I detect hopecasting
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    Eabhal said:

    Are the Greens a dark horse in this election? Maybe the polling isn't as wonky as I've assumed.

    Great favourability ratings. Gaza. Climate change. Complacent lefties. Maybe a decent vote share?

    This election might end up all about the smaller parties. Labour's support might be an inch deep - but support for the left looks solid.

    It's almost like somebody wrote an article about how the Greens are one of the few British parties offering a utopia, which is electorally attractive.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/05/12/solarpunk/
    I picked up a Tesla for 5k. Doing my bit for the environment.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,899
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    By the same logic the Greens could get 41% of the vote.
    there is a decent possibility Britain will go down the same hard right road as France Holland Sweden and Italy
    From the man who brought you ‘Liz Truss is a true star, the diamond in the rough, the one who will sort out Britain and defeat Keir Starmer.’

    You have been warned ...
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,805

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    ...NHS waiting lists were short, immigration was lower, housing was affordable, trade with Europe was frictionless...

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    ...NHS waiting lists were short, immigration was lower, housing was affordable, trade with Europe was frictionless...
    Housing was affordable in 1997 to 2001.

    By 2007 to 2010 that was well out of the question already.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,556
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    "Make the most of living in Conservative Britain"

    Yeah, ok, you fucking speccy twat, we'll do just that.
    It's like the last week of the Battle of Britain.

    I need to do the bit where I get pissed with Krebs and Burgdorf first.

    Still looking forward to that bit 👌
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,806
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    As an experienced traveller, Leon, you must remember that the French get extremely cross and upset if you do not speak to them in impeccable French. I expect you got a gender wrong, or something...
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,075
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    However 2010 was like the bit after Christmas. You’ve had the fun (the spending) but the credit card bill hasn’t hit yet. Whoever was in power in 2010 had to face the consequences of the GFC. It wasn’t fair to blame global events on Brown/Labour in 2010, nor is it fair to Blame Sunak/Conservatives for Covid and Ukraine, but theme the breaks.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,381

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
    I'm sure it was but whoever is masterminding their ad campaign clearly can't see the difference.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,899
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:



    Apols if already mentioned x

    And a large number of those 3 million will have been undecided or wavering voters, who will vote but had not yet made up their mind.

    If you were already decided as Tory or Labour or Reform you would be watching the football unless a politics geek
    Evidence please?

    How do you know that they are not the party faithful, journalists, and political nerds?
    For starters, 3 million is almost 10 times the combined membership of the Tory and Labour parties and about the current nightly audience for Eastenders
    I asked for evidence of your assertion that many of the 3 million who did watch are the undecideds and waverers.

    Please provide it, thanks.

    xx
  • Options
    Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 614
    edited June 27
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Very similar to debate one which moved the polls not one jot...

    ...and a lot more people were still watching then.
  • Options
    GrandcanyonGrandcanyon Posts: 105
    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Heath has gone quite mad the last couple of years. Every article doom and gloom.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,805

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Heath has gone quite mad the last couple of years. Every article doom and gloom.
    Wait, when was he not quite mad?

    I thought quite mad doom and gloom was his stock in trade.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 48,492
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    By the same logic the Greens could get 41% of the vote.
    Nah

    Saying you have a favourable view of the greens is like saying you “prefer clean rivers” and “please don’t chop down lovely trees”. Who has an issue with any of that? Most people aren’t aware the greens are now insane Woke Marxists

    By contrast everyone knows Farage is basically Hitler and yet he has 27% favourability? I know PB doesn’t like hearing this but there is a decent possibility Britain will go down the same hard right road as France Holland Sweden and Italy
    That you’re touting it makes yours the winner of ‘most reassuring post of the day’. Congrats.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,075
    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Maybe he knew of your works, hence the disdain?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,895

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Oh give it a rest (the journo, that is)!. If anything this election proves that the post-1987 centrist consensus lives on...
    It has to break sometimes, otherwise there won't be anything left of us... ☹️
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,075

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    ...NHS waiting lists were short, immigration was lower, housing was affordable, trade with Europe was frictionless...
    GFC had just happened…
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    edited June 27

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Very similar to debate one which moved the polls not one jot.
    It did actually move the polls a bit back to the Tories, just the D Day gaffe by Sunak and Farage's debate appearance and the populist Reform manifesto moved them back again.

    Farage is not appearing in any further debates with other leaders, the manifestos have been done and D Day anniversary has been and gone
  • Options

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    That one's not too bad, actually.

    It actually plays half-well to the fears of lots of centre-right voters.
    'Lots' and 'centre-right' may require asterisks
  • Options
    ClippP said:

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    As an experienced traveller, Leon, you must remember that the French get extremely cross and upset if you do not speak to them in impeccable French. I expect you got a gender wrong, or something...
    If it is not perfect they say no understand. Then use English. It might work or they walk away and leave.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,189
    .

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    I can't imagine why anyone doubtful of Labour would switch their votes to the Conservatives after seeing that poster.

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
    The current Tory Party geniuses haven't clocked the difference between calling your opposition as craven sand suggesting people you want to get to your side as the kind of people who surrender
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,805
    edited June 27

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Yes indeed. This twitter reply sums up my view:

    I don’t think “Britain will never be the same again” is quite the burn he thinks it is

    https://x.com/JohnHilson/status/1806245270373433389
    It's as great as the Labour will take you back to 2010 attempt...

    You mean an era before Austerity where Sure start existed, councils had money for things beyond social care and where I could afford to go out more often?
    However 2010 was like the bit after Christmas. You’ve had the fun (the spending) but the credit card bill hasn’t hit yet. Whoever was in power in 2010 had to face the consequences of the GFC. It wasn’t fair to blame global events on Brown/Labour in 2010, nor is it fair to Blame Sunak/Conservatives for Covid and Ukraine, but theme the breaks.
    It was fair to blame Gordon Brown for squandering the budget surplus he previously had and significantly increasing the deficit before the GFC hit, which meant when it hit our budget deficit when unsurprisingly from already bad to catastrophic.

    Had we kept a small budget surplus as he had in 2002, when the GFC hit we'd have been fine and no need for austerity.

    At least with Covid when it hit we'd had 9 years of the deficit coming down as a proportion of GDP, not going up, so we were less exposed than we could have been otherwise.

    This is not a Tory talking point, I'm voting Labour next week, but I'm hopeful that Labour learns some lessons from Brown's mistakes. The key to being better is to be reflective and learn lessons from your own mistakes, not pretend you've never made any - and the Labour fans who still insist Brown did nothing wrong give me pause for concern.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,249
    Shocked.

    A Metropolitan police officer has been charged with misconduct in public office over the alleged theft of money from a man who died after collapsing, the force has said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/27/met-police-officer-charged-misconduct-alleged-theft-from-man-who-died
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,381
    A good poster should give you plenty to think about and even smile about long after you've seen it

    https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/best-ads-50-years-economist-poster-defined-brand-agency/1519024
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    .

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    I can't imagine why anyone doubtful of Labour would switch their votes to the Conservatives after seeing that poster.

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
    The current Tory Party geniuses haven't clocked the difference between calling your opposition as craven sand suggesting people you want to get to your side as the kind of people who surrender
    Is someone trying to rob the people in the poster?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with the headline of this threader

    Even after Putin-piffle, 27% of Brits have a favourable view of Farage (and 8% neutral) and the exact same proportion support Reform. 27%

    That suggests they could get 27% at an election and easily overtake the Tories. They have the potential to be the opposition party in 2029 by which time they need to recruit better candidates and more talent and tack slightly to the centre (like Meloni and Le Pen) and then they could actually win (like Meloni and maybe Le Pen)

    I think they shot that fox. Reform needed to have overtaken the Tories in most polls this week and then squeeze Tory voters further as the main alternative to Labour.

    They didn't and Farage made his Putin gaffe so the Tories retain second and like Australia, Germany, Spain and New Zealand the centre right will remain ahead of the hard right, whereas Farage clearly wanted the UK to become like France or Sweden or Italy or Canada 1993 where the hard right overtook the centre right (the US in between, the GOP still the main party of the right but effectively so infected with Trumpism and led by Trump now for the moment it is a hard nationalist right party)
    Maybe. But I detect hopecasting
    We will see, if we had PR or second ballot then yes more likely Reform would overtake the Tories on seats and votes as the hard right has overtaken the centre right in France and Italy with those systems.

    However under FPTP Farage really needed to destroy the Tories Canada 1993 style this election as their Reform destroyed the incumbent Tories as they went down to landslide defeat. He hasn't and so the Tories will remain the main opposition party of the right, well ahead of Reform on seats and best placed to pick up the FPTP protest vote on swing of the pendulum once in opposition
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,429
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What is it with the French and rudeness?

    I just walked into a bar on the island and the proprietor looked frankly outraged that I, a seeker of beer, expect him, a known seller of beer, in a place which notoriously sells beer, to sell me a beer

    Maybe you shouldn't have shouted "Oi, garçon, beer!" as you walked in?
    I actually practised my French as I walked in!

    [Le snip]
    "Oi, garçon, biere!"
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,291
    edited June 27

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
    I would suggest that the problem is SPADs knocking these things up in Photoshop and putting them out without understanding the basics of political marketing (which was more or less invented in the 1980s).

    You can't "make up" a political message. You have to understand what your audience are *already thinking* and condense that into a memorable phrase that can be repeated. Ideally you avoided evoking adjacent but unhelpful ideas.

    Hence the "arms" poster is "okay" (though it lacks pithy memorability, it does have some humour and reflected the general view on Labour defence policy post-Falklands) but the "surrender" one is a total non-starter.

    Although everyone takes the piss out of the 97 "demon eyes" poster, it *was* pithy, memorable and played to a residual fear that may have swayed a few Tory deserters. The fact was: it didn't. So it is remembered as a failure.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,207

    Andy_JS said:

    This sort of thing must be enjoyable for lefties to read.

    "Armageddon is upon us, and Britain will never be the same again
    Right-wing Britain faces meltdown, with the almost total elimination of any power over the UK’s destiny
    Allister Heath"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/26/triumphant-labour-will-unleash-worst-demons-of-left/

    Heath has gone quite mad the last couple of years. Every article doom and gloom.
    To be fair, when he used to write about business in City AM he was excellent and on the economy he saw some of the problems Osborne's policies would cause.

    Keep him off politics.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,639
    mwadams said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak was much closer to Starmer in the post debate poll last night, this poll was pre debate

    Oh HY, I almost feel sorry for you. You want so much for it to all turn out not so bad after all but I fear you are in for a terrible disappointment.

    I doubt if more than a few thousand at most will be swayed by that debate. Against which the Tory propaganda machine continues it's relentless efforts to boost the Labour vote with the Ange PR piece and this shocker that will convince absolutely no one to vote Tory:

    image
    PATHETIC!
    Presumably inspired by this masterpiece from 1983,



    Moral: If you want to cosplay Maggie, you need some of her strength and success. Otherwise, you end up looking silly.
    I would suggest that the problem is SPADs knocking these things up in Photoshop and putting them out without understanding the basics of political marketing (which was more or less invented in the 1980s).

    You can't "make up" a political message. You have to understand what your audience are *already thinking* and condense that into a memorable phrase that can be repeated. Ideally you avoided evoking adjacent but unhelpful ideas.

    Hence the "arms" poster is "okay" (though it lacks pithy memorability, it does have some humour and reflected the general view on Labour defence policy post-Falklands) but the "surrender" one is a total non-starter.

    Although everyone takes the piss out of the 97 "demon eyes" poster, it *was* pithy, memorable and played to a residual fear that may have swayed a few Tory deserters. The fact was: it didn't. So it is remembered as a failure.
    It won't be SPADs, they advise Ministers, it will be CCHQ interns
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 116,249
    I think this is a further casus belli. Starmer's first act PM should be to declare war on France.

    Le Pen threatens Britain’s economy, Bank of England warns

    Global financial stability at risk from looming elections around world, officials fear


    The looming French election poses a threat to global financial stability and the British economy, the Bank of England has warned.

    Officials at Threadneedle Street warned of potential market turmoil after president Emmanuel Macron called a snap poll that could hand a majority to Marine Le Pen’s anti-migration National Rally party.

    Ms Le Pen favours increased borrowing, meaning a victory would risk driving up France’s already high debt levels.

    The report focuses on worst-case scenarios, and markets may not react as violently as some analysts fear. Bank of England officials did not refer to Ms Le Pen directly, and stressed that there are risks across much of the world in a year of widespread general elections.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/27/french-election-poses-risk-to-uk-economy-world-stability/
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