NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
It is worth understanding Putin's narrative and not just discrediting it. This is even if you see the conflict in very clear good v evil terms as many people posting on here do. Putin makes a series of points about the west breaking the post cold war settlement acting unilaterally in Iraq, and in NATO moving from a defensive alliance to an aggressor and expanding, with Russia being frozen out of this expansion, the implication being that it is the eventual target of it. In Putin's view this effectively got us to where we are now, amongst other things. As such in the Russian view, the path towards this current conflict was effectively set around 2004. Ultimately people will look in to this and make their own minds up about the 'truth' of the causes of the war, but I would suggest that some sympathy towards the Russian position (which Farage is essentially advocating for) is not confined to 5 or 10% of the population.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
He'll deploy the 'Corbyn Defence'. Namely that it's all "smears" and that people stating the foul logical endpoint of views that are deliberately couched vaguely to avoid stating that, are misrepresenting them.
Now if only the saner Tories had the gumption that Labour moderates did in taking on the extremists on their side instead of throwing the tiger meat in the hope it decides not to eat them.
The whole quoting someone being a smear thing was remarkable to see.
Yes, it is possible to excise reasonable context, but some things defy context or are not better in context.
Channel 4 News: discussion of opinion polls banned at Labour HQ due to fears of complacency, low turnout, people "indulging themselves" by voting for minor parties. They don't believe they're heading for 200 seat majority.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
Okay, you continue to push drivel and see how it does and continue to cuddle your comfort blanket of "It was reform wot won it" just like Labour did in 2017 with Corbs and see how well that goes for you.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
Okay, you continue to push drivel and see how it does and continue to cuddle your comfort blanket of "It was reform wot won it" just like Labour did in 2017 with Corbs and see how well that goes for you.
Off thread: wife and daughters are off to see Taylor Swift in London tomorrow so have 48 hours free of parental responsibility and the nicest weekend of the year so far to do it in. The amount of choice has been paralytic. But my decision was sort of made when I noticed there is a train from Manchester Victoria at 8.15 which goes to Ribblehead via Clitheroe, and a nice day with a strong westerly wind forecast. I'm going to try to cycle from Ribblehead (or Kirkby Stephen) to Northallerton. There is so much that can go wrong. First off, you can't book bikes on Northern, but nor can you board if there are two other bikes there before you. Still, feel I'm planning to do three new things I've long wanted to in one day: crossing the Pennines by bike*, going out for a day by bike and train, and going on the Settle and Carlisle railway. Oh, and also going on the secret Clitheroe-Hellifield route. I am so far out of my comfort zone it is quite dizzying.
Enjoy it.
I went on the Settle-Carlisle when I was in my teens.
The train to get me to the start of it broke down in Sheffield for hours.
But I did get to see the Evening Star stopping at Appleby Station.
There also seem to be a few Youtube vids around, which are always useful.
Darlington to Appleby return, out by Swaledale and back by Hartside Cross was one of the best long bike rides I’ve ever done. Totally overestimated my strength and stamina and crawled in to finish 15 minutes before the cutoff time. Made sure that the next one was around Cambridgeshire and Suffolk!
We need to see the poster of Farage in Putin’s pocket.
Nah. Glove puppet. Even less dignified.
Codpiece.
I can picture an old Punch style cartoon of a naked Putin from behind, peering over his shoulder whilst visibly sniffing the air and out of his arsehole a little Farage pokes his head out speaking his nonsense and the caption is “Even the Great Dictators enjoy sniffing their own noxious wind”.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Yes. There is an opportunity for Starmer to look like the more convincing Prime Ministerial candidate if he leads the criticism of Farage and affirms very strong support for Ukraine, if Sunak is unwilling to criticise Farage for fear of provoking a split within his party.
I wonder if he can manage it.
Possibly, because Sunak will almost certainly fuck it up.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
I'm not sure why Farage's comment on Putin/Ukraine has attracted so much comment tonight. Hasn't he been saying much the same ever since the invasion in 2022?
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
Starmer's fine and Reeves is surprisingly good. In 1997 Blair was a bit too flash and Brown a little too devious. So it turned out.
I left the Tory party a year or so ago in utter despair at the nonsense at their annual conference.
I don't really think the Tory party can survive, but if it does there's going to have to be enormous change to rid it of the stupid. They need someone like SKS.
The Tory Party is obviously capable of winning the next election. But the mood music to me suggests they are going to copy Labour between 2010 and 2020...
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
The only thing I take issue with here is "enthusiastic vegetarian". I'm trying to imagine what an unenthusiastic vegetarian would look like.
Everyone saying it's impossible for FPTP to be changed, how did other countries manage it?
From what I can see there's a mixed record for it being changed. India and US* haven't, Australia and Ireland have, for example. So it's clearly doable.
*I don't consider US a good example of how to/how not to change anything cause of their fetishisation of their constitution
Ireland have used STV since the beginning. When you have a war of independence it tends to encourage a bit of utopian thinking when writing a new constitution. It's a bit harder to make the change to an established system.
STV in Ireland was imposed by the BRITISH administration, as means of attempting to blunt the domination of most Irish constituencies by Sinn Fein under FPTP.
However, the Irish in the Free State then the Republic have retained STV ever since; up North the Unionists ditched it ASAP for FPTP, in order to lock in their dominance, along with gerrymandering & other sharp practice(s).
I don't think that's right? The last pre-independence general election in Ireland, in 1918, was on FPTP.
But the UK had already been using STV for parliamentary elections, in some university seats (one of which was Dublin).
The Parliament of Southern Ireland elections were STV in the (only) elections held in 1921. Irrelevant though as all consituencies were elected unopposed (4 Unionst 124 SF) and SF refused to turn up.
The reality is that had all the unpleasntness that followed not happened and the Southern Ireland Parliament functioned, the place would have become a dominion within ten years and adpoted the current flag. It is possible it might not have later become a republic (although I suspect it would after India did, but the only difference is that the word Republic wouldn't have been in the name of the country and the person in Dublin Castle called Governor General not President.
With respect to first paragraph, note that the Parliament of NORTHERN Ireland elections of 1921 were also conducted using STV. And while SF refused to recognized either the Southern or Northern Ireland parliaments, they did recognize BOTH sets of results as valid for election to 2nd Dail.
Re: 2nd paragraph, pure speculation. Note that what actually happened was that, after Fianna Fail became the government of the Free State, the post of Governor General was deliberately downgraded until it was eliminated entirely and replaced office of President - still under the Free State.
BTW, idea that seat of Irish administration in "Southern Ireland" would have remained Dublin Castle is rather far-fetched, to put it mildly.
Dublin Castle is where the President is inaugurated and holds state functions. The presidents residence is Áras an Uachtaráin in. Phoenix Park, same as the Viceroy up to 1922 and Governor General after that.
Irish Presidents powers are basically the same as the Governor Generals in Australia.
Or Canada & etc. Though actual scope of powers of POTIR perhaps somewhat less problematic than with GG; note that in both Australia and Canada, disputes between PMs and GGs have led to and been key issue in crucial election campaigns.
On another point, would argue (at least until refuted) that under terms of Anglo-Irish Treaty, the Irish Free State WAS a dominion, and that was reiterated via subsequent Treaty of Westminster.
Interesting that today IF you refer to Canada as a dominion, it REALLY pisses off Canadians. IF you then point out that it's the official name, they get even ore pissed off.
PLUS re: Phoenix Park, the last Governor General of the Irish Free State, Domhnall Ua Buachalla (Donal Buckley) most definitely did NOT reside at the Lodge:
. . . De Valera explicitly instructed Ua Buachalla as Governor-General to keep a low public profile, and not to fulfil public engagements, which was part of de Valera's policy to make the office an irrelevance by reducing it to invisibility. While he continued to give royal assent to legislation, summon and dissolve Dáil Éireann and fulfil the other formal duties of the office, he declined all public invitations and kept himself invisible, as advised by his Government. . . .
On de Valera's instruction, Ua Buachalla did not reside in the official residence of the Governor-General, the Viceregal Lodge (now called Áras an Uachtaráin, the residence of the President of Ireland). Instead, a house was rented for his use in Monkstown, outside of Dublin. . . .
Áras an Uachtaráin (House of the President) was occupied by Ua Buachalla's successor, first President of Ireland Douglas Hyde, and by his successors (including DeValera) ever since.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Yes. There is an opportunity for Starmer to look like the more convincing Prime Ministerial candidate if he leads the criticism of Farage and affirms very strong support for Ukraine, if Sunak is unwilling to criticise Farage for fear of provoking a split within his party.
I wonder if he can manage it.
Possibly, because Sunak will almost certainly fuck it up.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
They haven't, have they?
Too terrified to go after Farage strongly. There's a 500th 'Labour will increase taxes' post to get out first.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
The only thing I take issue with here is "enthusiastic vegetarian". I'm trying to imagine what an unenthusiastic vegetarian would look like.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
You're welcome.
Rishi Sunak couldn't work out how to use WhatsApp, there isn't a chance he would know how to use an Excel Macro.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Yes. There is an opportunity for Starmer to look like the more convincing Prime Ministerial candidate if he leads the criticism of Farage and affirms very strong support for Ukraine, if Sunak is unwilling to criticise Farage for fear of provoking a split within his party.
I wonder if he can manage it.
Possibly, because Sunak will almost certainly fuck it up.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Yes. There is an opportunity for Starmer to look like the more convincing Prime Ministerial candidate if he leads the criticism of Farage and affirms very strong support for Ukraine, if Sunak is unwilling to criticise Farage for fear of provoking a split within his party.
I wonder if he can manage it.
Possibly, because Sunak will almost certainly fuck it up.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
They haven't, have they?
Too terrified to go after Farage strongly. There's a 500th 'Labour will increase taxes' post to get out first.
Well, they will.
But I think going after Farage on this is low-risk. Putinism is very very unpopular in the UK and we had some of the highest (if not the highest) polling support for Ukraine in the past.
It offends fundamental British sense of fair play, bullies picking on the little guy, and invokes sympathy based on our own experience of standing alone in 1940.
Farage has got it badly wrong and Sunak should come out swinging.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
You're welcome.
Rishi Sunak couldn't work out how to use WhatsApp, there isn't a chance he would know how to use an Excel Macro.
Has he worked out how to switch on a car’s engine?
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
You're welcome.
Rishi Sunak couldn't work out how to use WhatsApp, there isn't a chance he would know how to use an Excel Macro.
Has he worked out how to switch on a car’s engine?
The Tory Party is obviously capable of winning the next election. But the mood music to me suggests they are going to copy Labour between 2010 and 2020...
I think you're wrong. The Tory party currently isn't capable of winning a sack race. It's completely broken, and it's broken because of the regular forced polarisations that have set fried against friend and the result is that nobody is calm and relaxed in their thoughts.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Yes. There is an opportunity for Starmer to look like the more convincing Prime Ministerial candidate if he leads the criticism of Farage and affirms very strong support for Ukraine, if Sunak is unwilling to criticise Farage for fear of provoking a split within his party.
I wonder if he can manage it.
Possibly, because Sunak will almost certainly fuck it up.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
They haven't, have they?
Too terrified to go after Farage strongly. There's a 500th 'Labour will increase taxes' post to get out first.
Well, they will.
But I think going after Farage on this is low-risk. Putinism is very very unpopular in the UK and we had some of the highest (if not the highest) polling support for Ukraine in the past.
It offends fundamental British sense of fair play, bullies picking on the little guy, and invokes sympathy based on our own experience of standing alone in 1940.
Farage has got it badly wrong and Sunak should come out swinging.
If he can manage to do it without missing, and hitting himself in the face. Which is doubtful.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
You're welcome.
Rishi Sunak couldn't work out how to use WhatsApp, there isn't a chance he would know how to use an Excel Macro.
Has he worked out how to switch on a car’s engine?
No, nor has he worked out how Contactless works.
Oh go on, you will miss his tiggerish incompetence when the priggish puritan Starmer is taxing you to penury in your new job and demanding you clap outside your house every Thursday night forever to celebrate the toolmakers.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak will spend all weekend putting the options into a spreadsheet, building macros, running his thumb over the various options from the result, picking the shittest one, and then fucking that up too.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
The only thing I take issue with here is "enthusiastic vegetarian". I'm trying to imagine what an unenthusiastic vegetarian would look like.
It's weird how people get so upset by vegetarians/vegans. Do people feel threatened by a man who doesn't feel the need to bollocks-signal by eating animals? I've seen Starmer play football - he'd break half the men posting on here.
Even lapsed republican is a bit odd. I'm not a republican but I don't see any reason why an opened minded person might not consider it. Plenty of right wing republicans on here too.
Hearing Farage talk gives me pause for thought as a Lib Dem supporter.
Do I want the Tories kicked out? Yes.
Do I want the Lib Dems to win 50+ seats and regain third largest party? Of course.
Do I want the Tories to fall behind the Lib Dems on seats and Reform on votes? I'm no longer so sure.
The risk is it let's a Reform - minded party in through the middle as the opposition, rather than one that will eventually refind the centre ground from the right.
I hope Rishi has written his thankyou letter to the Panorama editor?
Only helps him if it moves votes to the Tories. This is when he needs Boris to appear, attack Farage on Ukraine, and implore those voters to come home.
Have the Tories attacked Farage or Reform at all yet? My impression is that they've spent more time criticising Davey and the Lib Dems.
This is a moment of truth for the Conservative Party. Are they going to fight Farage, or will they appease him?
Yes. As many have said, the one thing this government has unambiguously done well is support Ukraine, including by leading amongst our allies and nudging others into action. Sunak needs to get on this.
Or Starmer does…
Sunak is certainly well-positioned to take this tack, and probably well-advised as well.
Assuming that for every small-c conservative voter out there who thinks that Farage is telling it like it is, there are at least two who are repelled if not repulsed.
Seems to me that Farage may be peaking too early for him & Reform, AND also that he lacks the kind of message discipline that a front-line candidate needs during the final weeks of a major national campaign.
Alternative is that NF is actively targeting a segment of the POTENTIAL electorate via what can most kindly be called Ukraine-skepticism?
Am wondering what, if anything, Boris Johnson will say about this in his newspaper column?
Farage’s comments on Putin/Ukraine are disgraceful, similarly to Melanchon’s pro-Putinism, anti-Germanism, and anti-semitism.
The problem is, their supporters don’t care, and the mainstream are too inept to counter them.
What are his comments? Everyone seems to be falling over themselves to offer condemnation of his 'comments', but even in the longer version, the word 'provoked' is the only word. Do we not even need to see three words strung together to form a quote? It's really quite bizarre the extent to which all logic is driven aside in a visceral frenzy by people who oppose NF politically. He has got that in common with Trump - he sends people properly mad.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
The only thing I take issue with here is "enthusiastic vegetarian". I'm trying to imagine what an unenthusiastic vegetarian would look like.
It's weird how people get so upset by vegetarians/vegans. Do people feel threatened by a man who doesn't feel the need to bollocks-signal by eating animals? I've seen Starmer play football - he'd break half the men posting on here.
Even lapsed republican is a bit odd. I'm not a republican but I don't see any reason why an opened minded person might not consider it. Plenty of right wing republicans on here too.
I think the 'enthusiastic vegetarian' thing comes from the type of vegetarian / vegan who are enthusiastic to tell you about howe great they are for their choice in not eating meat and, in the case of vegans, how much they suffer due to that choice. To use your phrase, they 'bollocks-signal' by not eating meat.
I know many vegetarians and vegans, and the few who do this can be really annoying at meals. Most aren't like this, and accept your choice in eating meat if you accept their choice in not eating it.
I don't know how much that applies to SKS, and I've seen no evidence of it myself.
During the execrable 90 mins that passed as an England match yesterday I posted a screenshot of a webpage of a young lady who is standing for election to her student union who goes under the superb, and seemingly genuine, name of - I kid you not - Tuna Kunt. This is her website: https://www.citystudents.co.uk/elections/manifesto/4714/
So perhaps in a not-Cockney-rhyming-slang-but-feels-like-it way we could simply say something like ‘That Farage, he’s a right tuna!’ Or in a year’s time when the jubilation’s worn off and we think Labour are crap we can fulminate ‘Fuck off Starmer, you massive tuna.’
Perhaps we could get it to be one of those meems on that tick tock.
Hearing Farage talk gives me pause for thought as a Lib Dem supporter.
Do I want the Tories kicked out? Yes.
Do I want the Lib Dems to win 50+ seats and regain third largest party? Of course.
Do I want the Tories to fall behind the Lib Dems on seats and Reform on votes? I'm no longer so sure.
The risk is it let's a Reform - minded party in through the middle as the opposition, rather than one that will eventually refind the centre ground from the right.
NEW: Nigel Farage says the West "provoked" Vladimir Putin into invading Ukraine.
FFS. This is why noone should vote Reform.
What a dickhead.
Quoting the Torygraph:
"The leader of Reform UK said that the expansion of Nato and the European Union gave Vladimir Putin “an excuse” to go to war with Ukraine."
Sorry, but that is an inconvenient truth.
The Pope, hardly a Putin Toady, said the same the thick end of two years ago.
What do you think the US would have done if Cuba had joined the Warsaw pact and actually stationed USSR missiles there?
Similiarly what do you think the US would do if Mexico made a military pact with China and opened Chinese Military bases there?
He has done it again, got the Great and Good howling with outrage and giving vast publicity to him while people sit at home, quietly nodding "I agree with Nigel".
You're saying that Ukraine has no right to be an independent country. How would you react if the French said that Britain had no right to be an independent country and invaded the country to stop us from leaving the EU?
Fuck off to Moscow with that attitude.
I feel like I can already see Farage's offensive defense on this issue. He will come out swinging and just say the mainstream parties are pretending he supports Putin when he made sure to say he doesn't (even if the rest of his words make the same justifications as Putin), he'll look outraged and call it desperate, and in any case the people of Britain care about immigration and tax and not matters outside their control.
It'll get a weekend of punditry chin wagging, then Rishi will step on a banana skin or his government chaffeur will be revealed to be the Boston Strangler or something, and we'll be back on track.
A competent Conservative campaign with competent leadership could squeeze 30%+ of the vote out of this election.
It could squeeze much more. A competent Conservative campaign should romp home.
Traditional Conservative party values are election winning every time. I see no party standing on those values though. No individual politicians really getting terribly close either.
The Conservative party has totally lost its way.
I agree.
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
The only thing I take issue with here is "enthusiastic vegetarian". I'm trying to imagine what an unenthusiastic vegetarian would look like.
Starmer eats fish so he isn't a vegetarian I also have no worries about him being a socialist. Still wont vote for him but not the reasons why
Comments
We've heard Keir Starmer is a socialist. We've seen their leaked tax hike plans on inheritance tax, capital gains and pensions. We know he's vindictive to those who object to gender ideology. We know his weird ideological aversion to any aspect of the private sector in either health or education. We know he's a lapsed republican and enthusiastic vegetarian. We know he took The Knee.
He's cosplaying Blair, but he is no Tony Blair.
“We just can’t shake Sir John!”
We spent an hour being tailed by the local MP in the 𝘴𝘢𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘵 Tory seat as @lewis_goodall tried to find anyone who’ll be voting for him…
It's like a scene out of the Thick of It.
Yes, it is possible to excise reasonable context, but some things defy context or are not better in context.
A competent CCHQ would already have got something out.
They haven't, have they?
The problem is, their supporters don’t care, and the mainstream are too inept to counter them.
I left the Tory party a year or so ago in utter despair at the nonsense at their annual conference.
I don't really think the Tory party can survive, but if it does there's going to have to be enormous change to rid it of the stupid. They need someone like SKS.
On another point, would argue (at least until refuted) that under terms of Anglo-Irish Treaty, the Irish Free State WAS a dominion, and that was reiterated via subsequent Treaty of Westminster.
Interesting that today IF you refer to Canada as a dominion, it REALLY pisses off Canadians. IF you then point out that it's the official name, they get even ore pissed off.
PLUS re: Phoenix Park, the last Governor General of the Irish Free State, Domhnall Ua Buachalla (Donal Buckley) most definitely did NOT reside at the Lodge:
. . . De Valera explicitly instructed Ua Buachalla as Governor-General to keep a low public profile, and not to fulfil public engagements, which was part of de Valera's policy to make the office an irrelevance by reducing it to invisibility. While he continued to give royal assent to legislation, summon and dissolve Dáil Éireann and fulfil the other formal duties of the office, he declined all public invitations and kept himself invisible, as advised by his Government. . . .
On de Valera's instruction, Ua Buachalla did not reside in the official residence of the Governor-General, the Viceregal Lodge (now called Áras an Uachtaráin, the residence of the President of Ireland). Instead, a house was rented for his use in Monkstown, outside of Dublin. . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domhnall_Ua_Buachalla
Áras an Uachtaráin (House of the President) was occupied by Ua Buachalla's successor, first President of Ireland Douglas Hyde, and by his successors (including DeValera) ever since.
My thanks to Mr Bed for interesting discussion!
You're welcome.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/21/diesel-pet-donkey-california
But I think going after Farage on this is low-risk. Putinism is very very unpopular in the UK and we had some of the highest (if not the highest) polling support for Ukraine in the past.
It offends fundamental British sense of fair play, bullies picking on the little guy, and invokes sympathy based on our own experience of standing alone in 1940.
Farage has got it badly wrong and Sunak should come out swinging.
NEW THREAD
Even lapsed republican is a bit odd. I'm not a republican but I don't see any reason why an opened minded person might not consider it. Plenty of right wing republicans on here too.
Do I want the Tories kicked out? Yes.
Do I want the Lib Dems to win 50+ seats and regain third largest party? Of course.
Do I want the Tories to fall behind the Lib Dems on seats and Reform on votes? I'm no longer so sure.
The risk is it let's a Reform - minded party in through the middle as the opposition, rather than one that will eventually refind the centre ground from the right.
Assuming that for every small-c conservative voter out there who thinks that Farage is telling it like it is, there are at least two who are repelled if not repulsed.
Seems to me that Farage may be peaking too early for him & Reform, AND also that he lacks the kind of message discipline that a front-line candidate needs during the final weeks of a major national campaign.
Alternative is that NF is actively targeting a segment of the POTENTIAL electorate via what can most kindly be called Ukraine-skepticism?
Am wondering what, if anything, Boris Johnson will say about this in his newspaper column?
I know many vegetarians and vegans, and the few who do this can be really annoying at meals. Most aren't like this, and accept your choice in eating meat if you accept their choice in not eating it.
I don't know how much that applies to SKS, and I've seen no evidence of it myself.
So perhaps in a not-Cockney-rhyming-slang-but-feels-like-it way we could simply say something like ‘That Farage, he’s a right tuna!’ Or in a year’s time when the jubilation’s worn off and we think Labour are crap we can fulminate ‘Fuck off Starmer, you massive tuna.’
Perhaps we could get it to be one of those meems on that tick tock.