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Kaboom! Is Sunak the Tory David Lloyd George? – politicalbetting.com

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  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812
    dixiedean said:

    The 18-24 YouGov subsample in full:

    LAB: 41%
    LD: 22%
    REF: 15%
    GRN: 8%
    CON: 7%

    What's the collective noun for a gathering of crossovers?
    A ferfuxsake of crossovers?
    The bit at the east end of Newcastle Station.

    (Or at least it used to be.)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    Pro_Rata said:

    In case we haven't had the point of order yet on the Kaboom and taking Farage vehicles as interchangeable:

    YouGov 18-19/Jun/2019
    BXP 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20

    So, no big deal ;)

    So you’re saying the Tories could still win…. If they appoint Boris…
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,691
    Is it me or was the lighting terrible for Starmer against the backdrop?

    Looks all weird and lemony in the white shirt?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049

    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1801354721283727834

    "A fire has broken out at the Sukhoi Design Bureau in Moscow, one of Russia's leading aircraft development companies."

    Oh dear. What a shame.

    Could have been anyone…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    The 18-24 YouGov subsample in full:

    LAB: 41%
    LD: 22%
    REF: 15%
    GRN: 8%
    CON: 7%

    Labour voteshare well down too on the 56% they got with that age group in 2019.

    The best hope for the Tories to win back younger voters is opposition, younger voters almost always swing against the government

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    People have been using the text-to-video AI generative model to bring meme's to life,

    https://x.com/CharaspowerAI/status/1801257086115811354
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Nigelb said:

    Tories are sub 20 with 4 pollsters. Its over. They will disintegrate over the next 3 weeks. I cant see them being the opposition.

    Yes. Lets pull this movement apart:
    1) Labour are shedding the soft vote that had herded into their column. Losing a few to Green, more to LibDem, some to Reform. That will reduce the number of seats they win and the majorities they get in those seats
    2) LibDems are getting a lot of attention and people like what they see. Not relevant nationally, but the target seats focus and the willingness to vote tactically will pay out. I know the party is playing it down citing past elections, but Sarah Olney's tale of woe last night is a tale of elections past, not the one in front of us
    3) Reform are transformed - the Nigel has doubled their support and the Tory dam is breaking. That Jenkyns leaflet won't be the only one. Once the dam breaks properly the surge of Tory votes to Reform is unstoppable now - watch the flow accelerate the closer we get to polling day
    4) Sorry Tories, its the end. Nobody is listening to you, and the bits they hear they laugh at - openly, to your face.

    Unless something radical happens to abruptly reverse it, this is going to be the biggest electoral shift for a century. The Tories have launched the manifesto now, its not going to pull a Farage-shooting rabbit out of the hat. And "don't give Labour a super-majority?" Not remotely enough when voters are now heading off to spread their votes about away from Labour.

    I know that ELE is "it couldn't happen here". But it IS. Look. Listen. Think. What possibly can avert it now? Fear of that anodyne Labour offer? Fear of Farage? A sudden "poor Rishi lets vote for him after all" movement?

    I have no clue what that means for seats. It's going to be fun.
    I mean this in the nicest possible way:

    You must be shitting yourself you might actually win :D
    Rochdale would make an above average MP, I think ?

    (Admittedly that’s not the highest of bars.)
    Oh I hope he does. Actually as (part of being) a kid I didn't live very far away from his seat - village/town called Cullen.

    But I doubt Mrs Rochdale thought he would win when she gave him permission to run. I'm just making that sentence up though based on what most marriages are like. Who knows. It's a bit unfair cause he surely cannot be expected to answer anyway. So I'll leave it there :wink:
    Cullen is IN the seat. Hustings there next Thursday! We've been promised an appearance by the Ross.
    Do you ever get confused, whether you're in North Aberdeenshire OR East Moray? Or is it East Aberdeenshire and North Moray? AND how do you tell for sure?

    Lead on MacDuff!
    I created an acronym on day 1 - ANME. My problem is pronunciation. Depending which part of the country you are from our local places - my village included - are pronounced very differently.

    As an incomer - and Cyber Nats are already telling me to fuck off out of their town / country - I want to get pronunciations as balanced as I can.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,691
    darkage said:

    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.

    I suspect it is every man and woman for themselves from now.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Wowowowowow - Mordaunt's closing pitch - the terrible record of Labour over the last few years which you have to stop by choosing the Conservatives instead.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,121
    edited June 13
    MattW said:

    Back from a 5 mile cycle around various strata of Ashfield in estates around the main urban area.

    101: ask the dog walkers, they always know where everything is - including the placards which are "hidden in the bushes, like the road signs". In the darkening evening at cycle speeds I may have missed some smaller ones, and some in windows - especially on a small wheel e-folder watching the road surface carefully.

    In total I saw about 7-8 Ashfield Independent signs, and 1 Labour. No Tories - they are pretty much screwed, and they know it.

    1940s-50s Council houses - nothing. Is there a "no placards" condition in the rental agreements? Will be mainly genuine working class I think, manual and trades, and mums and other priviliged-by-the-points groups, and the same retired or still there after having done RIght-to-Buy.

    1990s housing a bit of AI. These will middle aged and decent pensions, or commuters living here for the house prices and nice environment. Some AI.

    2000s and more recent housing. These will be mainly younger relatively newer on the housing ladder, and some Eastern Europeans. Lots of Audi, BMW and Mercedes wankers on 7-10 year old plates, with some Tonka Plonkers with older Range Rovers etc. Obviously parked all over the pavements. Again a bit of AI.

    The one Labour was in my own lane, which is relatively mixed and mainly more upmarket, with properties from 150k to say 600k.

    I haven't gone to 60s and 70s housing, of which we have swathes, and terraced areas of which have fair amounts.

    Missed one comment.

    I'd perhaps expect the 60s and 70s housing to be Reform territory, since they are usually older people who have lived here a long time, likely to be owner occupiers, and less transient. That is, mainly C1/C2.
  • darkage said:

    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.

    I suspect it is every man and woman for themselves from now.

    The fallout will be spectacular.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    edited June 13
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1801354721283727834

    "A fire has broken out at the Sukhoi Design Bureau in Moscow, one of Russia's leading aircraft development companies."

    Oh dear. What a shame.

    LOL, fancy a random fire ending up at a military aircraft factory!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    edited June 13

    darkage said:

    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.

    I suspect it is every man and woman for themselves from now.

    The fallout will be spectacular.
    Assuming there's actually anyone left to have a fall out? 😂
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Decent end summary from Rayner here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,691
    GIN1138 said:

    darkage said:

    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.

    I suspect it is every man and woman for themselves from now.

    The fallout will be spectacular.
    Assunming there's actually anyone left to have a fall out? 😂
    Weekend papers on 6th/7th will be a tory bloodbath of blame and madness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Techne

    LAB 43 (-1)
    CON 19 (-1)
    REF 16 (+1)
    LIB 11 (+1)
    GRN 6 (=0)
    SNP 2 (=0)

    F/W 12-13 June

    So straight away another poll still has the Tories ahead of Reform
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    The Tory approach to trying to park their tanks on Reform lawn has worked out well.

    Reform don’t have a lawn. It will be weed infested concrete slabs with an old rusty Ford Mondeo parked on it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    HYUFD said:

    Techne

    LAB 43 (-1)
    CON 19 (-1)
    REF 16 (+1)
    LIB 11 (+1)
    GRN 6 (=0)
    SNP 2 (=0)

    F/W 12-13 June

    So straight away another poll still has the Tories ahead of Reform
    That barrel is getting some serious scraping.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
    Yes I would take that now
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Angela Rayner is very good.

    Wouldn’t go that far but she’s been good. Certainly. As has been the Plaid guy. Mordaunt has had a shocker.
    People are just laughing at anything she tries, I think the event horizon is in sight for Rishi's Tories.
    People laugh as she’s just not credible. I agree with you about the Tories. Deservedly so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    Foxy said:

    The Ed Davey video is priceless.

    For those that haven’t seen it… https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1801268147749638260?s=61

    I hope the Unknown Stuntman doesn't having any driving related stunts cued up for tomorrow.
    Apparently the video dates from 2020 or 2021 but has only just been leaked discovered.

    Thrust of his argument remains true. Couldn’t find their arsehole (even after changing leader a couple of times).
    The reference to covid and the elbow bump are the giveaways that it is a few years ago.
    Mind you, if the government did eventually find its arse, it wasn’t deliberate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 13
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    Nigelb said:

    Tories are sub 20 with 4 pollsters. Its over. They will disintegrate over the next 3 weeks. I cant see them being the opposition.

    Yes. Lets pull this movement apart:
    1) Labour are shedding the soft vote that had herded into their column. Losing a few to Green, more to LibDem, some to Reform. That will reduce the number of seats they win and the majorities they get in those seats
    2) LibDems are getting a lot of attention and people like what they see. Not relevant nationally, but the target seats focus and the willingness to vote tactically will pay out. I know the party is playing it down citing past elections, but Sarah Olney's tale of woe last night is a tale of elections past, not the one in front of us
    3) Reform are transformed - the Nigel has doubled their support and the Tory dam is breaking. That Jenkyns leaflet won't be the only one. Once the dam breaks properly the surge of Tory votes to Reform is unstoppable now - watch the flow accelerate the closer we get to polling day
    4) Sorry Tories, its the end. Nobody is listening to you, and the bits they hear they laugh at - openly, to your face.

    Unless something radical happens to abruptly reverse it, this is going to be the biggest electoral shift for a century. The Tories have launched the manifesto now, its not going to pull a Farage-shooting rabbit out of the hat. And "don't give Labour a super-majority?" Not remotely enough when voters are now heading off to spread their votes about away from Labour.

    I know that ELE is "it couldn't happen here". But it IS. Look. Listen. Think. What possibly can avert it now? Fear of that anodyne Labour offer? Fear of Farage? A sudden "poor Rishi lets vote for him after all" movement?

    I have no clue what that means for seats. It's going to be fun.
    I mean this in the nicest possible way:

    You must be shitting yourself you might actually win :D
    Rochdale would make an above average MP, I think ?

    (Admittedly that’s not the highest of bars.)
    I have a problem - I get bored toeing the line. I've got to where I have professionally by putting frank honesty out instead of excuses. "We fucked up, we're sorry, here's how we're making it right". Works far better than denial, spin and bullshit.

    A party whip would hate me.
    They could make you a party whip, just for the LOLZ!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,691
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Angela Rayner is very good.

    Wouldn’t go that far but she’s been good. Certainly. As has been the Plaid guy. Mordaunt has had a shocker.
    People are just laughing at anything she tries, I think the event horizon is in sight for Rishi's Tories.
    People laugh as she’s just not credible. I agree with you about the Tories. Deservedly so.
    Carla is good at challenging Labour to do more than the current 'don't scare the horses' magnolia manifesto.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,618
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    Angela Rayner is very good.

    Wouldn’t go that far but she’s been good. Certainly. As has been the Plaid guy. Mordaunt has had a shocker.
    People are just laughing at anything she tries, I think the event horizon is in sight for Rishi's Tories.
    People laugh as she’s just not credible. I agree with you about the Tories. Deservedly so.
    It's a hospital pass to represent the Tories in a 7 way with 6 on to 1, but Mordaunt made a game effort.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    edited June 13
    If the Tom Tugendhat’s of this world are in charge, 100 is enough to rebuild on.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    edited June 13

    GIN1138 said:

    darkage said:

    The conservative party have died. It is like they have lost interest in wanting to win.

    I suspect it is every man and woman for themselves from now.

    The fallout will be spectacular.
    Assunming there's actually anyone left to have a fall out? 😂
    Weekend papers on 6th/7th will be a tory bloodbath of blame and madness.
    it reminds me of Cecil Parkinson on Election 97, wondering if there were going to be enough Tories left to have a punch up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,121

    The Ed Davey video is priceless.

    For those that haven’t seen it… https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1801268147749638260?s=61

    Shades of Nottinghamshire accent.

    Unusual for him.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    edited June 13
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
    I mean it took Con 13 years to get back from the 1997 wipeout which left them with 165 - They would take that hands down based on the current polling.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,128
    edited June 13
    There's something very rare about HUYFD's level of loyalty.

    You can either see it as loopy, or admirable.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,240

    geoffw said:

    WTH does Reform stand for? No manifesto, just slogans yet they're competitive with the Cons, WTF

    Very unfair to claim RefUK stand for nothing.

    Are racism and dirty Russian money nothing? I think not.
    Reform's contract for Britain (manifesto) is coming out on Monday
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    I find it confusing why people are so negative about Reform. It is obvious why they are doing so well. They have actual clear policies that appeal to probably 30-40% of voters.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    edited June 13
    Novo said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It has arrived as predicted. The YouGov poll showing the Tories coming third. Now the debate on here will rage about whether the Tories get 50 seats or below.After election night the debate will continue. How did the Tories get 150, 175, 200 seats? Because people lied about who they were going to vote and several polling companies got it wrong, how why? That is the mystery. To panic Tory voters for example into voting for the party that in their heart of hearts they support. I post this now and anyone who agrees with me fantanstic. The majority will say I am wrong and it is hurting Labour etc. Rubbish. For the people who bet on this site if you are putting your money down on this poll and others like it you may as well put your money down the nearest drain. The odd person on here will thank me after the election is done and I am proved right. If I am wrong I will accept it after the election is over. Until then I will stick to my view. The debaters on here will vehemently diagree with me and justify why they are right and I am wrong. I have news for you.Do not be conned.Think outside the box.

    I keep saying I think the Tories will get at least 25%, despite the polls.
    They will really struggle to get above 20% now. Postal voting will begin next Wednesday so they have virtually no time left to avoid a catastrophic defeat.
    They're probably very lucky that most of their core vote is postal.
    Any further collapse will be mitigated.
    Folk at the counts were pretty certain Labour won on the day in 2017.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 13
    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
  • What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    Sorry, I can't resist a moment longer.

    "It's just a flesh wound!"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    Thing is, whatever happens the right has now won, even in defeat. In the face of a potentially calamitous Tory loss and over 60% of polling opinion supporting left of degree parties, the Reform scores in the teens mean most of the media that Sunak lost because they weren’t right wing enough.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 13

    The Tory approach to trying to park their tanks on Reform lawn has worked out well.

    Reform don’t have a lawn. It will be weed infested concrete slabs with an old rusty Ford Mondeo parked on it.
    Yes.

    Our economy has generated a large number of such voters over the last few decades.

    Now I don't think the right have solutions to these peoples problems, but I am glad I live in a country which has a democratic system which allows such people to have their voices heard.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    HYUFD said:

    Techne

    LAB 43 (-1)
    CON 19 (-1)
    REF 16 (+1)
    LIB 11 (+1)
    GRN 6 (=0)
    SNP 2 (=0)

    F/W 12-13 June

    So straight away another poll still has the Tories ahead of Reform
    Come on. You can see the trend as well as we can. You're down to 19 and dropping. 3 weeks left and at this rate you're below them in 3 days.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
    Plus they have local councillors, and the footprint gives them, to use as a springboard by winning some locals.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    So who is making the decisions, and what’s their plan for the next four years?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,618
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
    If this was the result then every by-election or defection could threaten the Tory's as official opposition.

    I still think Con about 125 or so.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Have you ever seen Rishi Sunak carry a ceremonial sword at a coronation? Well?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 13
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    So who is making the decisions, and what’s their plan for the next four years?
    Expanding the garden nuclear bunker I built for Trump.....but make sure it is hidden so I don't get smashed by Labour's Garden tax.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited June 13
    nico679 said:

    I’m shocked that the Tories so far have received no bounce from their manifesto . They were essentially handing out money . So either the public don’t believe they can deliver on those pledges or they just hate the party and want them eviscerated.

    No-one believes the Tories will win so no-one believes they are in any position to deliver what they promise. The Tories are just as irrelevant now as Plaid Cymru promising lots of welfare and to take Wales into the EU.

    And the fact they are promising so much indicates the Tories don't think they will have to deliver on it either.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    So who is making the decisions, and what’s their plan for the next four years?
    1) Avoid Trump;
    2) Erm….
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
    Yes I would take that now
    All joking aside, I have some sympathy for your predicament, still, I am mildly shocked that even a fervent Tory loyalist like you is prepared to admit disaster is staring the party in the face even before a single vote is cast.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,618
    darkage said:

    I find it confusing why people are so negative about Reform. It is obvious why they are doing so well. They have actual clear policies that appeal to probably 30-40% of voters.

    Clear policies* that appeal to 15% more like!

    *ones that fall apart when examined and costed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
    If this was the result then every by-election or defection could threaten the Tory's as official opposition.

    I still think Con about 125 or so.
    The Tories are just as likely to pick up Labour seats in by elections mid term of a Labour government than lose any to the LDs or Reform
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    darkage said:

    I find it confusing why people are so negative about Reform. It is obvious why they are doing so well. They have actual clear policies that appeal to probably 30-40% of voters.

    Tax cuts, spending cuts and better public services?
    Sounds great to me!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,618
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    So who is making the decisions, and what’s their plan for the next four years?
    Making good decisions though, whoever they are.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    edited June 13

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    Indeed

    That’s one of the saddest of all the videos I’ve seen. He’s just pitiable now, it cannot be fun, his wife needs to do the right thing. Imagine him trying to last til 2028??

    The way Macron then Meloni have to rescue him, Jeez. This is the President of the USA!
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
    Yes I would take that now
    Bloody hell. HY you're one of the Tories on here whose judgement I respect. If you're saying you'd take 71 seats ... I'm speechless.

    (I also think you're wrong by the way. I strongly suspect on the day itself enough people will vote Tory through gritted teeth cf @DavidL that they'll get 120-150 seats at least.)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678
    Can Rishi resign and be replaced with Hunt? I'm not saying it'll do much, but it might win back a few Tories who'd sooner not experience Rishi's haplessness and Nigel's spivvery if they didn't have to.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,121
    edited June 13

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    So who is making the decisions, and what’s their plan for the next four years?
    Expanding the garden nuclear bunker I built for Trump.....but make sure it is hidden so I don't get smashed by Labour's Garden tax.
    An air raid shelter is the only garden building you can sleep in overnight without needing iirc Planning Permission or Building Regs to build.

    Although they might get you for the Planning Permission under the "Engineering Operation" category, which needs it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,128
    edited June 13

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
    Oh don't, my wife will start complaining if I start to dwell too long on that again.

    I'll get her back by mentioning Monty Don, again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 13

    HYUFD said:

    Techne

    LAB 43 (-1)
    CON 19 (-1)
    REF 16 (+1)
    LIB 11 (+1)
    GRN 6 (=0)
    SNP 2 (=0)

    F/W 12-13 June

    So straight away another poll still has the Tories ahead of Reform
    Come on. You can see the trend as well as we can. You're down to 19 and dropping. 3 weeks left and at this rate you're below them in 3 days.
    I can see Yougov like to spin the media narrative with a poll of Reform ahead of the Tories as they drove the narrative in 2014 with a poll with Yes ahead. They were always going to poll until they got that result, which they did by 1% with the Tory voteshare unchanged and with all other polls still having the Tories ahead of Reform.

    However if you want PM Farage if Reform overtake the Tories on votes and seats that is what you will eventually get within a decade if they do. And from your perspective it would be a nasty, nasty, nasty government that would make you wishing for the days of Sunak and Cameron! Leon would love it of course!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    biggles said:

    If the Tom Tugendhat’s of this world are in charge, 100 is enough to rebuild on.

    If it’s Suella Braverman or Robert Jenrick, in future years they will be able to look back on when they were able to get 100.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100
    Why is Labours manifesto called “change” when they want to keep basicly everything exactly the same?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Did you know, that at one stage of his long political career, Winston Churchill floated the idea, of dividing up England into seven self-governing regions?

    Second Anglo-Saxon Heptarchy.
  • What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
    Depends whether our one luxury is a sword or an Excel spreadsheet.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    I find it confusing why people are so negative about Reform. It is obvious why they are doing so well. They have actual clear policies that appeal to probably 30-40% of voters.

    Clear policies* that appeal to 15% more like!

    *ones that fall apart when examined and costed.
    Setting aside the fact I disagree with such string limits on immigration anyway, they haven’t thought it through.

    If you limit immigration that much, you either have to push on birth rates or create a vision that moves on from our obsession with GDP growth (at our level of development a lot of it will always be population growth).

    There’s actually something to be said for that moving on from GDP. But it’s more of a green policy really.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,240

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't say that I am enjoying this election. The Tories are not really my team but jeez.

    Labour are getting away with promising something at the margins. And not being Tories. That is enough, apparently. Sunak has been a poor PM, no argument, but I don't think he deserves this. I will be glad when its over.

    Aren't they? I had you down as a dyed in the wool Conservative. Have I got you totally wrong?
    No particular reason for you to read my posts but I have been very critical of the Tories for a long time. The rank dishonesty of Boris, the utter incompetence of Truss and the ineptitude of Sunak. I was disgusted with the HS2 decision, the abandonment of levelling up, the dishonesty of giving tax cuts whilst actually increasing taxes, the lack of focus on growth, the cowardice of just throwing our money at every problem that came along. And, of course, the moral turpitude and performative cruelty of the Rwanda policy. It's been terrible but I still can't believe more than 15% of my fellow citizens are going to vote for Reform.

    Fifteen percent or so is what UKIP have been scoring in Euro elections since about 2004. There's a market for what they promise. (And I can see why what they promise is popular, it's just that it's contradictory nonsense.) On top of that, the Conservatives promised a distinctly UKIP-y moon on a stick in 2019. That legitimised the desire for Faragey stuff without delivering it, because of its fundamental undeliverability.

    And that's about the worst possible combination.
    Let me offer an explanation for what is happening. For me the key question is: Do you think that the UK is:

    a) basically fine with just a bit of tinkering round the edges required
    b) completely broken and in need of radical change

    The Tories' problem is that having been in charge for 14 years they have to go for option a, and then end up looking ridiculous by claiming things like that taxes are going down.
    Labour's narrative has been that Britain is broken but the mistake they're making is by offering tinkering around the edges (this is what Blair did but the country was in a better place then).
    Reform and the Greens are offering radical change from the right and left respectively and this is why they are increasing in the polls.
    The LDs are a bit more in the middle

    You say that what Reform offers is undeliverable,and I agree that it couldn't all be done in a single term but I would rather have a party that starts radical and then moderates in government, than a party, which is essentially offering no change.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    bobbob said:

    Why is Labours manifesto called “change” when they want to keep basicly everything exactly the same?

    Il Gattopardo
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    In the express the readership is widely expecting farage to be the next PM 🙄🙄🙄 apparently they don't get fptp. But it worries me, as the disappointment will be huge when they end up with 3-5 seats...
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    What’s the appeal of rishi ? He’s not liz truss !
    What’s the appeal of penny ? She’s not rishi !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,618

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
    It's a no brainer. Penny strikes me as versatile, and could build and sail a boat.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    pigeon said:

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Have you ever seen Rishi Sunak carry a ceremonial sword at a coronation? Well?
    It would need to be a small dagger, preferably sheathed for safety.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Admirable honesty from the always interesting and polite @HYUFD. If he would take 71 seats if offered it, I might have to rethink my view that this won’t (can’t) be better for Labour than Sir Tony’s shift in 97.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    biggles said:

    If the Tom Tugendhat’s of this world are in charge, 100 is enough to rebuild on.

    If it’s Suella Braverman or Robert Jenrick, in future years they will be able to look back on when they were able to get 100.
    If its Braverman or Jenrick the Tories will likely merge with Reform within 5 years if we keep FPTP
  • geoffw said:

    WTH does Reform stand for? No manifesto, just slogans yet they're competitive with the Cons, WTF

    Very unfair to claim RefUK stand for nothing.

    Are racism and dirty Russian money nothing? I think not.
    Reform's contract for Britain (manifesto) is coming out on Monday
    Just being signed off by the Kremlin now. Exciting times.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,209
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Con on 71 is a complete catastrophe for the most successful political party in British history
    It isn't, provided they stay main opposition, then Labour has to deal with the economy in government and they start to get the protest vote
    If this was the result then every by-election or defection could threaten the Tory's as official opposition.

    I still think Con about 125 or so.
    The Tories are just as likely to pick up Labour seats in by elections mid term of a Labour government than lose any to the LDs or Reform
    After 1997, the first Conservative by election gain was Crewe and Nantwich in May 2008.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061

    Nigelb said:

    Tories are sub 20 with 4 pollsters. Its over. They will disintegrate over the next 3 weeks. I cant see them being the opposition.

    Yes. Lets pull this movement apart:
    1) Labour are shedding the soft vote that had herded into their column. Losing a few to Green, more to LibDem, some to Reform. That will reduce the number of seats they win and the majorities they get in those seats
    2) LibDems are getting a lot of attention and people like what they see. Not relevant nationally, but the target seats focus and the willingness to vote tactically will pay out. I know the party is playing it down citing past elections, but Sarah Olney's tale of woe last night is a tale of elections past, not the one in front of us
    3) Reform are transformed - the Nigel has doubled their support and the Tory dam is breaking. That Jenkyns leaflet won't be the only one. Once the dam breaks properly the surge of Tory votes to Reform is unstoppable now - watch the flow accelerate the closer we get to polling day
    4) Sorry Tories, its the end. Nobody is listening to you, and the bits they hear they laugh at - openly, to your face.

    Unless something radical happens to abruptly reverse it, this is going to be the biggest electoral shift for a century. The Tories have launched the manifesto now, its not going to pull a Farage-shooting rabbit out of the hat. And "don't give Labour a super-majority?" Not remotely enough when voters are now heading off to spread their votes about away from Labour.

    I know that ELE is "it couldn't happen here". But it IS. Look. Listen. Think. What possibly can avert it now? Fear of that anodyne Labour offer? Fear of Farage? A sudden "poor Rishi lets vote for him after all" movement?

    I have no clue what that means for seats. It's going to be fun.
    I mean this in the nicest possible way:

    You must be shitting yourself you might actually win :D
    Rochdale would make an above average MP, I think ?

    (Admittedly that’s not the highest of bars.)
    Oh I hope he does. Actually as (part of being) a kid I didn't live very far away from his seat - village/town called Cullen.

    But I doubt Mrs Rochdale thought he would win when she gave him permission to run. I'm just making that sentence up though based on what most marriages are like. Who knows. It's a bit unfair cause he surely cannot be expected to answer anyway. So I'll leave it there :wink:
    Cullen is IN the seat. Hustings there next Thursday! We've been promised an appearance by the Ross.
    Do you ever get confused, whether you're in North Aberdeenshire OR East Moray? Or is it East Aberdeenshire and North Moray? AND how do you tell for sure?

    Lead on MacDuff!
    I created an acronym on day 1 - ANME. My problem is pronunciation. Depending which part of the country you are from our local places - my village included - are pronounced very differently.

    As an incomer - and Cyber Nats are already telling me to fuck off out of their town / country - I want to get pronunciations as balanced as I can.
    Go with MENA. That won't be confused with anything else...😁
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
    Oh don't, my wife will start complaining if I start dwelling too long on that again.

    I'll get her back by mentioning Monty Don again.
    She will be finding you jobs for the weekend to keep you out of mischief.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    edited June 13
    I think it was about 2 and a half weeks ago I asked PB to try to think through the implications if the polls were repeated on election day.
    I was a little frustrated no one really took me up on that thought experiment.
    Yet here we are. And they are even more outlandish.
    We need to coin a word that is the antonym of swingback.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    It doesn't if judging rationally. But politicians and voters aren't entirely rational animals.

    Under FPTP the big two generally have a self-righting mechanism which means that even if they are genuinely loathed or feared and face an insurgent (Tories 97, Labour 2010, and in opposition in 83 or 2019) they can usually rely on being the main opposition to the other lot its voters hate more to put a floor under even a bad defeat.

    There's a tipping point where people stop believing that's the case and disaster follows as voters stop seeing it as rational to vote Labour or Tory to stop the other lot.

    Most likely it merely creates confusion and limits any Tory comeback based on disgruntled voters coming home- like the Lib Dems briefly surging in 2010 or 2019 did to Labour.

    But if it actually persists in this campaign, other pollsters show it and Reform campaign effectively (some pretty big ifs) then it's a potential disaster.

    So it could be important if it endures. Even if it's really only noise. Just because the more Reform-curious Tories believe the Tories genuinely are toast and voting Reform really might bring about a political earthquake. The less reason they have to go home to the Tories because they don't like Starmer or Labour.

    It could also provoke panic if Tory politicians start fighting or giving up rather than parking their differences for the moment and trying to just get through the election.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
    Yes I would take that now
    All joking aside, I have some sympathy for your predicament, still, I am mildly shocked that even a fervent Tory loyalist like you is prepared to admit disaster is staring the party in the face even before a single vote is cast.
    Better that than Casino’s tearful denial.
  • biggles said:

    If the Tom Tugendhat’s of this world are in charge, 100 is enough to rebuild on.

    The bigger concern for the Tories is that the Suella Braverman's of this world are going to be in charge.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,061

    Wowowowowow - Mordaunt's closing pitch - the terrible record of Labour over the last few years which you have to stop by choosing the Conservatives instead.

    Super easy. Barely an inconvenience... 😀
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    Indeed

    That’s one of the saddest of all the videos I’ve seen. He’s just pitiable now, it cannot be fun, his wife needs to do the right thing. Imagine him trying to last til 2028??

    The way Macron then Meloni have to rescue him, Jeez. This is the President of the USA!
    Look at Rishi’s face too. He’s worried. He’s just incapable of acting on it as usual.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    In the express the readership is widely expecting farage to be the next PM 🙄🙄🙄 apparently they don't get fptp. But it worries me, as the disappointment will be huge when they end up with 3-5 seats...

    Disappointed Express readers? Where’s my miniscule violin?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049

    geoffw said:

    WTH does Reform stand for? No manifesto, just slogans yet they're competitive with the Cons, WTF

    Very unfair to claim RefUK stand for nothing.

    Are racism and dirty Russian money nothing? I think not.
    Reform's contract for Britain (manifesto) is coming out on Monday
    Just being signed off by the Kremlin now. Exciting times.
    That’s the Tory Hail Mary pass. Go with “Farage is linked to Putin” and go hard.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,128

    What is the hype around Mordaunt? She strikes me as another Sunak, a complete lightweight.

    Would you rather be washed up on a desert island with Penny, or with Rishi?
    Oh don't, my wife will start complaining if I start dwelling too long on that again.

    I'll get her back by mentioning Monty Don again.
    She will be finding you jobs for the weekend to keep you out of mischief.
    I'll have to keep an eye on that, otherwise she'll use it as an excuse for another Monty Don gardening video again.

    "See how he does the flower beds ? That's what I want you to be doing."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this Yougov poll means much, the Tories are actually unchanged from the last Yougov, the main swing from Labour and LD to Reform. Just Yougov like to be the pollster with the big shock polls as they did in 2014 when they were the first and one of the only pollsters to have Yes ahead.

    In fact putting tonight's Yougov into Electoral Calculus puts the Tories still ahead of the LDs as main opposition on 71 seats to 69 and massively still ahead of Reform, still projected to get just 5 seats
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=18&LAB=37&LIB=14&Reform=19&Green=7&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=36.8&SCOTLIB=8.4&SCOTReform=1.9&SCOTGreen=1.4&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=31.1&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

    Question - is 71 seats to just cling on as HM Official Opposition now the top end of expectations?
    Yes I would take that now
    C'mon. That's the pits. Are you doing some Expectations Management on yourself?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,049
    Farooq said:

    bobbob said:

    Why is Labours manifesto called “change” when they want to keep basicly everything exactly the same?

    Thank you. I'm glad we're still seeing this side of the Schrodinger's Labour narrative. They are at the same time going to do nothing at all different AND usher in a new Soviet dawn.
    Well that’s generally what new Soviet leaders did…..
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Can confirm my FB feed is riddled with the Sky TV stuff. After no discernable election commentary.
    Can also report that nobody mistook us nor abused us at break time in our blue school outfits, lanyards and ID, for Tory canvassers.
    Perhaps they've given up on the possibility they exist?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    If the Tom Tugendhat’s of this world are in charge, 100 is enough to rebuild on.

    If it’s Suella Braverman or Robert Jenrick, in future years they will be able to look back on when they were able to get 100.
    If its Braverman or Jenrick the Tories will likely merge with Reform within 5 years if we keep FPTP
    Would you join them, or would that be a step too far?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    Indeed

    That’s one of the saddest of all the videos I’ve seen. He’s just pitiable now, it cannot be fun, his wife needs to do the right thing. Imagine him trying to last til 2028??

    The way Macron then Meloni have to rescue him, Jeez. This is the President of the USA!
    There could have been people out of shot he was giving the thumbs up too, though to be honest he could be a brain dead corpse with no pulse and still get 45-50% against Trump
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964

    Mordaunt jabbing her finger at everyone on stage and getting laughed at.

    The government has become a laughing stock. No one is taking them seriously.

    That is the killer for them
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,592
    Perhaps Sunak and Macron could do a secret deal to merge the UK and France and cancel their respective elections pending the formation of a joint government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 13
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Biden just wanders off, causing consternation to other G7 leaders. This is a daily humiliation for the USA

    https://x.com/ritapanahi/status/1801329917327773789?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    I can only imagine what it is like day to day inside the White House. There is no way he is making any decisions.
    Indeed

    That’s one of the saddest of all the videos I’ve seen. He’s just pitiable now, it cannot be fun, his wife needs to do the right thing. Imagine him trying to last til 2028??

    The way Macron then Meloni have to rescue him, Jeez. This is the President of the USA!
    There could have been people out of shot he was giving the thumbs up too, though to be honest he could be a brain dead corpse with no pulse and still get 45-50% against Trump
    If it was a one off perhaps, but 2 days ago he forgot he shook somebodies hand within 30s and went to do it again and was totally confused when the person ignored it. Its a daily thing now.
This discussion has been closed.