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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,493

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    Absolutely agree. It's maybe a long shot, but long shots win all the time.

    Put together the pool of people who are currently DK, Reform and Tory and you have a group many millions strong who could be swirling around; if (big if) in the national mind it coalesces into a sense of a two horse race where 'Stop Labour' is the first priority for them then NOM could happen. This is not over.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited June 11
    Conservative Manifesto 2024 Part 2
    Our plan to cut taxes and protect pensions
    • Gave support through Covid. Once inflation under control will cut taxes
    • Cut NI to 6% by 2027
    • 35% increase in national living wage since 2010
    • Cutting tax for pensioners
    • Further 6bn a year on tackling tax avoidance and evasion (note – both? Why not before now?)
    Our plan to support families
    • 30 free hours of childcare
    • Family hub in every local authority (think the LDs had basically the same idea)
    • Online safety act promoted
    • Ban mobile phones in schools
    • Raise child benefit threshold
    Our plan to get more people into work and build a fairer welfare system
    • Growth in benefits unsustainable
    • Reform disability benefits
    • Moderate issues to mean tailored support, not signed off work – new fit note system
    • Accelerate rollout of universal credit (note – this still isn’t complete!?)
    • Sanctions for refusing to take up suitable jobs
    Our plan to give young people the opportunities and skills they need
    • 2 hours of PE every week, increase funding for competitive sport
    • Advanced british standard, building on A level and T level (note – I have no idea what a T Level is)
    • Legislation for register of children not in school.
    • Schools must share materials on sex education – age limits on what kids can be taught
    • Expand ‘strong’ academy trusts
    • National service -young people will be given a choice to do x or y (note – but not a choice not to do it)
    • 15 new schools for children with SEND
    • Close university courses with worst outcomes – excessive drop out rates or laeve students worse off (note – how to judge that? 10 years later?

    Our plan to secure our nation from global uncertainty
    • 2.5% on defence in 2030
    • Support trident
    • Reduced Chinese influence
    • ‘chased dirty money out of the uk’ (note – this is oddly emotive and nonspecific)
    • Talking up AUKUS
    • Defend against Iran and Houti
    • Veterans pledge – minister in Cabinet, 10m office of veteran affairs, visa fee waiver for commonwealth personnel, cut cost of veterans railcard, enshrine veterans rights in law
    • Ensure veterans id are valid in elections
    • New procurement model (note – that will solve it after all this time!)
    • Return to 0.7% for international development when fiscal circumstances allow
    • Statutory footing for envoy for freedom of belief etc
    • Lot more detail on working with partners than LD manifesto
    • Minister for british citizens oversea (note – classic ‘create a new role’ fluff)
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Big_Ian said:

    LibDems seen to have got a manifesto bounce. Wonder if the Tories will get one too..?

    Looking at the very helpful summary by @kle4 I would say...not.
    Don't be too sure. Attention is a big factor. The Tories have been in the news today at least partially on their own terms. That's... one of their better days of this campaign. I can imagine a wee bump in the next few days when it filters through.
    I don't think these things last, though, so what difference it'll make by early July is probably not great.
    Attention is useful when you have something to say. Like Ed and the story of his mum. Something people can relate to. Sunak really struggles to find anything we can relate to. Cutting NI, whilst still increasing taxes is a policy I actually support but it doesn't exactly grip your man in the street or the woman looking at her wage slip where her net income has gone down.
    Have to think Rishi Sunak would be doing better on the campaign trail today IF he'd worked as a bus driver back in the day, like another Tory prime minister (no, NOT Maggie Thatcher).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755

    DavidL said:

    The anti-Tory party is back and it is more powerful, more informed and more motivated than it has ever been before. If the YouGov numbers are repeated elsewhere I will finally believe in Canada.

    I'm pretty confident it exists. My son's girlfriend and her family live there.
    Unlike Australia, which is obviously ficticious.
    Well, obviously. How on earth could people live upside down all the time? Its right up there with spaghetti trees.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    edited June 11
    I have an image of a PR man walking up to Ed Davey’s desk and saying “Ed, the stunts are working, but have to go bigger”.

    About those odds on a balloon flight….?

    Anyone got any odds on doing an Evel Knievel? I’ll vote LibDem if he gets over a double-decker.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    Absolutely agree. It's maybe a long shot, but long shots win all the time.

    Put together the pool of people who are currently DK, Reform and Tory and you have a group many millions strong who could be swirling around; if (big if) in the national mind it coalesces into a sense of a two horse race where 'Stop Labour' is the first priority for them then NOM could happen. This is not over.
    LLG was UP 2% in this poll. That's a group many many millions strong swirling around.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Tight seat?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The anti-Tory party is back and it is more powerful, more informed and more motivated than it has ever been before. If the YouGov numbers are repeated elsewhere I will finally believe in Canada.

    I'm pretty confident it exists. My son's girlfriend and her family live there.
    Unlike Australia, which is obviously ficticious.
    Well, obviously. How on earth could people live upside down all the time? Its right up there with spaghetti trees.
    It’s the platypus nonsense that really does it for me. The egg laying mammal with a ducks beak and poisonous thumbs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    @lewis_goodall
    Historians and political scientists will argue for a long time about whether the realignment was real and could have been sustained or whether its reversal was contingent on the Conservatives’ managing to blow it all up, in the most spectacular way possible, thereby throwing away the political opportunity of a generation.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    DavidL said:

    The anti-Tory party is back and it is more powerful, more informed and more motivated than it has ever been before. If the YouGov numbers are repeated elsewhere I will finally believe in Canada.

    I'm pretty confident it exists. My son's girlfriend and her family live there.
    Unlike Australia, which is obviously ficticious.
    It’s the outrageous wildlife that shows the lie. Like anyone would live in a place where spiders are lethal?!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    What do you think MOE is?

    Losing 3 points is well within MOE.
    No it’s not. As I understand it from the great OGH a shift of 3 is notable and not necessarily MOE, and certainly not “well within”
    You have misunderstood then as I am pretty sure OGH never said that as it isn't true.
    I think the way it works is that each poll reading has a MOE of 3, so the MOE of the changes is about 4.5. (There's a moderate chance that the lass reading was too high and this one is too low. Or some of the change is real and some is MOE.)

    Moral: we need more poll data.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934
    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Labour only stays on 38% if the Lib Dems and Greens both maintain a surge way beyond any recent polling. 23% between them in that YouGov.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    The sub-samples - I know, usual health warning applies - in that YouGov are quite something. The Conservatives are fifth, behind the Greens as well as Reform, with voters under 50, and joint second with Reform (and some distance adrift of Labour) in the 50-64 bracket. They only lead amongst the over-65s, but even that cohort is now heavily split, with only 33% preferring Con.

    Labour are coasting to a landslide with numbers like these. The Conservatives need the Reform vote to collapse like wet cardboard and swing heavily back to them to avoid a record defeat.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Farooq said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    The anti-Tory party is back and it is more powerful, more informed and more motivated than it has ever been before. If the YouGov numbers are repeated elsewhere I will finally believe in Canada.

    I'm pretty confident it exists. My son's girlfriend and her family live there.
    Unlike Australia, which is obviously ficticious.
    It’s the outrageous wildlife that shows the lie. Like anyone would live in a place where spiders are lethal?!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiders_of_Australia#:~:text=Most Australian spiders do not,that fail to cite evidence.
    Pfft. As a great man once said, you can prove anything with facts.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited June 11

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316

    mickydroy said:

    I have thought for a long while that Labour won't get 40% at the GE, 38% seems very realistic, but with the Torys at low 20s best, it won't matter a jot

    It's not low 20s at best though, they've had 24s, 25, 26 with a variety of pollsters in the last 4 days and 28 last week. If they get towards 27, 28 then Labour on 38 would be an interesting situation. If YG and Redfield are right then yep, it's carnage time.
    I think 40 25/26 is about right and a big landslide but no ELE
    I'm not sure on the others, just don't see Labour breaking 40%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,498

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    There's an alternative.

    I can add a script that automatically bans people if they exceed the daily quota.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    edited June 11
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    Absolutely agree. It's maybe a long shot, but long shots win all the time.

    Put together the pool of people who are currently DK, Reform and Tory and you have a group many millions strong who could be swirling around; if (big if) in the national mind it coalesces into a sense of a two horse race where 'Stop Labour' is the first priority for them then NOM could happen. This is not over.
    NOM is 14/1 - Lib Dem to beat CON vote share is also 14/1 - maybe better to go for the latter, even if I think it's a long shot, because you can still win that in all scenarios ranging from Labour small majority to Labour Landslide?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    Message that Labour have already won and you can be a bit more relaxed in your voting intention seems to be getting through, definite softening.

    Still win an unbelievable landslide - but probably with fewer votes than his old boss and friend Jezza.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I don't think I've seen a post by you recently TSE, so I'd just like to say welcome back. and hope you're recovering well.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 792

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited June 11

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    There's an alternative.

    I can add a script that automatically bans people if they exceed the daily quota.
    But..Mr Eagles !

    It was him, Sir.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,008
    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    I don't think the Conservatives will eat Reform. More specifically, they are running out of time to do so and the initial signs are the other way around.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    DougSeal said:

    Using Baxter's special soup on those figures, sans tactical voting, and for those that believe, we get -

    LAB 468
    LIB 74
    CON 63
    SNP 14
    Reform 5
    PlaidC 4
    Green 2

    With no unified anti-Labour vote, Starmer could still get a huge majority even if Labour drop to the low-30s. He'd have no mandate for major constitutional reforms.
    Almost identical figures from Electoral Calculus:

    LAB 471
    LIB 73
    CON 61
    SNP 14
    Reform 5
    PlaidC 4
    Green 2
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    Yes sorry missed it
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    There's an alternative.

    I can add a script that automatically bans people if they exceed the daily quota.
    I still don't even know how to post a picture.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 792
    maaarsh said:

    Message that Labour have already won and you can be a bit more relaxed in your voting intention seems to be getting through, definite softening.

    Still win an unbelievable landslide - but probably with fewer votes than his old boss and friend Jezza.

    Hope so. @Quincel 's 8/1 tip on that was the best of the election so far
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    By the way - some Exchange odds on Labour vote percentage for those of you who are down on it.

    38-39.99% - 6.4
    36-37.99% - 16.0
    34-35.99% - 38.0
    32-33.99% - 90.0
    30-31.99% - 95.0

    Leon may like those last couple
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    Leon said:

    One of my least favourite genres of pb comments is people that come on “politicalbetting.com” a site dedicated to obsessive scrutiny of every possible aspect of politics and polls and elections and asking “why are you all getting excited by a poll?”

    There are plenty of sites out there for people who AREN’T unhealthy over-interested in politics. If that’s your bag, try one of them

    Yes, but you are one person. I think we need a poll on the topic of the least favourite genre of PB comments, so we can minutely dissect the results and the subsamples...
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    maaarsh said:

    Message that Labour have already won and you can be a bit more relaxed in your voting intention seems to be getting through, definite softening.

    Still win an unbelievable landslide - but probably with fewer votes than his old boss and friend Jezza.

    This poll might be a blessing in disguise for Labour, to be able to say "See, it's not a foregone conclusion, you need to come out and vote or the Tories will come back somehow"
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Can only happen if loads of grumpy Reform voters suddenly decide to back Sunak as lesser of two evils, rather than sticking to their guns, or sitting on their hands, or breaking for Labour in significant numbers.

    I came into this expecting the Tory vote to firm up significantly, as the fact that voters now had to actually pick a Government rather than complain/emote came into view, but there's no sign of swing back so far - and that includes among the vital elderly vote.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 792

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    Yes sorry missed it
    My tenner versus your five hundred says Davey does a parachute jump* this campaign? Both to be donated to Ukraine?

    *Or push. Or ejection seat. As long as he takes off in an aircraft and doesn't land in it :wink:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Today is the anniversary of the 1987 general election.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    By the way - some Exchange odds on Labour vote percentage for those of you who are down on it.

    38-39.99% - 6.4
    36-37.99% - 16.0
    34-35.99% - 38.0
    32-33.99% - 90.0
    30-31.99% - 95.0

    Leon may like those last couple

    GB or UK?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    There's an alternative.

    I can add a script that automatically bans people if they exceed the daily quota.
    I still don't even know how to post a picture.
    ___ _ _ _
    |_ _| |_( )___ ___ __ _ ___ _ _| |
    | || __|// __| / _ \/ _` / __| | | | |
    | || |_ \__ \ | __/ (_| \__ \ |_| |_|
    |___|\__| |___/ \___|\__,_|___/\__, (_)
    |___/

    If you use a non=proportional font... ;)
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587

    maaarsh said:

    Message that Labour have already won and you can be a bit more relaxed in your voting intention seems to be getting through, definite softening.

    Still win an unbelievable landslide - but probably with fewer votes than his old boss and friend Jezza.

    This poll might be a blessing in disguise for Labour, to be able to say "See, it's not a foregone conclusion, you need to come out and vote or the Tories will come back somehow"
    Yep, danger of dipping below 450 seats, time for them to get serious.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492

    By the way - some Exchange odds on Labour vote percentage for those of you who are down on it.

    38-39.99% - 6.4
    36-37.99% - 16.0
    34-35.99% - 38.0
    32-33.99% - 90.0
    30-31.99% - 95.0

    Leon may like those last couple

    I've been tipping 38-39.99 for a couple of weeks and I bet the price has come in since then.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,963

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    What do you think MOE is?

    Losing 3 points is well within MOE.
    No it’s not. As I understand it from the great OGH a shift of 3 is notable and not necessarily MOE, and certainly not “well within”
    You have misunderstood then as I am pretty sure OGH never said that as it isn't true.
    I think the way it works is that each poll reading has a MOE of 3, so the MOE of the changes is about 4.5. (There's a moderate chance that the lass reading was too high and this one is too low. Or some of the change is real and some is MOE.)

    Moral: we need more poll data.
    Exactly!

    An error of +1 last time to an error of -2 last time is perfectly viable and well within margin of error.

    Too many people misunderstand MOE and hear a MOE of 3 and then think a change of 3 is outside the MOE rather than well within it.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Can only happen if loads of grumpy Reform voters suddenly decide to back Sunak as lesser of two evils, rather than sticking to their guns, or sitting on their hands, or breaking for Labour in significant numbers.

    I came into this expecting the Tory vote to firm up significantly, as the fact that voters now had to actually pick a Government rather than complain/emote came into view, but there's no sign of swing back so far - and that includes among the vital elderly vote.
    I would suggest the only mechanism is if something cuts through about Labour that they can be galvanised to want to STOP. Sufficiently galvanised they overlook Sunak.

    Given Labour’s message discipline so far, that seems unlikely.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    38 + 18 must be one of the lowest ever combined Labour and Tory vote shares.

    14 December 1981: Con 23%, Lab 23.5%, Alliance 50.5%. MORI
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    Yes sorry missed it
    My tenner versus your five hundred says Davey does a parachute jump* this campaign? Both to be donated to Ukraine?

    *Or push. Or ejection seat. As long as he takes off in an aircraft and doesn't land in it :wink:
    Glider to Normandy?
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316
    I have a feeling, that the BBC exit poll could be a tad tricky this year
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    At Thorpe Park, no less 😂😂😂😂
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Any more polls due this evening do we know?

    I’m rather enjoying the polls this time. Farage and Davey have made this campaign interesting.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    OK got you now.

    Yes fine. Offer is now closed to other bets, have to limit my liability. Charity restrictions apply: human beneficiaries only, no rescuing traumatized Kyivan donkeys or supplying emotional support dogs to PTSD victims.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    biggles said:

    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Can only happen if loads of grumpy Reform voters suddenly decide to back Sunak as lesser of two evils, rather than sticking to their guns, or sitting on their hands, or breaking for Labour in significant numbers.

    I came into this expecting the Tory vote to firm up significantly, as the fact that voters now had to actually pick a Government rather than complain/emote came into view, but there's no sign of swing back so far - and that includes among the vital elderly vote.
    I would suggest the only mechanism is if something cuts through about Labour that they can be galvanised to want to STOP. Sufficiently galvanised they overlook Sunak.

    Given Labour’s message discipline so far, that seems unlikely.
    Also requires the Tories to have something to credibly offer. Unfortunately for them their policy offer does not tick the Reform voters box, and even if it did they have no prospect of challenging Labour, so whether you vote heart or head a vote for the Tories achieves nothing.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Taz said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    At Thorpe Park, no less 😂😂😂😂
    The LibDems are definitely playing their joker on this one.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 792

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    Yes sorry missed it
    My tenner versus your five hundred says Davey does a parachute jump* this campaign? Both to be donated to Ukraine?

    *Or push. Or ejection seat. As long as he takes off in an aircraft and doesn't land in it :wink:
    Glider to Normandy?
    As long as he jumps out of the glider. If he rides it all the way down and storms pegasus bridge, then it's awesome but I lost.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    There's an alternative.

    I can add a script that automatically bans people if they exceed the daily quota.
    Do it!

    It’s not hard to remember - one photo a day. Its actually quite a good discipline and one I’ve stuck to throughout my PB career anyway

    But seriously. You don’t need the grief as you recuperate from a nasty op - make it automatic. Good idea

    And if a poster needs to offer visual proof of something (like my £10 given to the Ukrainian lady for @Sandpit) and you’ve used up your quota then simply link to an image hosting website like Imgur
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 792

    Big_Ian said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    In 2010 and 2017 the tories looked impregnable until they didn't. In 2010 especially people were saying "just MOE" without really noticing that the MOEs were all in the one direction. And Sunak is an arse, but by God so were Brown and Corbyn.

    I have a tenner on NOM
    What odds?
    Looks it up...

    10.5
    Have you missed my generous offer to take you up on one of those 50/1 for charidee, or was it a joke? ;)
    OK got you now.

    Yes fine. Offer is now closed to other bets, have to limit my liability. Charity restrictions apply: human beneficiaries only, no rescuing traumatized Kyivan donkeys or supplying emotional support dogs to PTSD victims.
    B)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    mickydroy said:

    I have a feeling, that the BBC exit poll could be a tad tricky this year

    People say that every time. Never back
    against Sir John Curtice, as @TheScreamingEagles said earlier.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    Terrible news for Labour as the gap with the Tories is closed by 2 points.

    At this rate the gap will be closed in 10 weeks

    /sarcasm

    ANY poll which shows your party losing 3 points - ie outside the MOE - induces anxiety, if not panic, even if you are 298 points ahead. Why? Because it might be the start of a trend - and indeed this poll is just one of several which show a trend of Labour sliding

    Its about 1-2 points a week so it’s hardly fast but (using this poll as a base) if Labour lose another 6 points in the 3 weeks to July 4 then, from being entirely dominant, they are on 32

    And that says “hung Parliament”
    One poll putting Labour on 38% won't induce concern within the party, but 2 or 3 probably would.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934

    maaarsh said:

    Message that Labour have already won and you can be a bit more relaxed in your voting intention seems to be getting through, definite softening.

    Still win an unbelievable landslide - but probably with fewer votes than his old boss and friend Jezza.

    Hope so. @Quincel 's 8/1 tip on that was the best of the election so far
    If Starmer gets fewer votes than Jezza despite winning a majority the Corbynistas will never shut up about it.

    Whereas if Davey gets fewer votes than Swinson (very possible) but more seats I’m not expecting Twitter pile-ons from the Swinsonians.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    The Independent is reporting that Sunak is suggesting that if Labour wins they’ll charge the electoral rules to make if more likely for Labour to win.
    Pot calling kettle?
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    Lib Dem odds on the 'Most Seats Without Labour' market were 6.0 when the YouGov poll dropped. Now trading at around 3.6 - 3.85 - big change!
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 11
    End of the day, while I expect Tories to get very worked up about Lab (-3), they should be far more worried about Reform (+1 - 1% behind), and LD (+4 - 3% behind).

    Their two main competitors for votes are right behind them and they are half way down the FPTP seat precipice.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    We must be due another MRP soon aren’t we? The last one out had data to from end of May up to 2nd June.

    And a reminder: actual voting begins next week.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,449
    kle4 said:

    Conservative Manifesto 2024 Part 2

    Our plan to get more people into work and build a fairer welfare system

    • Growth in benefits unsustainable
    • Reform disability benefits
    • Moderate issues to mean tailored support, not signed off work – new fit note system
    • Accelerate rollout of universal credit (note – this still isn’t complete!?)
    • Sanctions for refusing to take up suitable jobs
    I suspect "accelerate rollout of universal credit" means JSA, the replacement of which is currently on indefinite hold.

    It fits well with the ambition to end NI, but will annoy many traditional Tories like HYUFD who value the contributory principle.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    any early evidence on if the Tory manifesto has gone down positively and will help the Tories in the polls?

    I also just remembered, tomorrow the Sunak Brand ITV interview airs - and it's said to be very bad for him by journey that have seen it!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472

    mickydroy said:

    I have a feeling, that the BBC exit poll could be a tad tricky this year

    People say that every time. Never back
    against Sir John Curtice, as @TheScreamingEagles said earlier.
    Hang on! He used BBC! Why aren't you complaining about that? After all, he might be referring to a (ahem) different BBC... ;)

    Although a "BBC exit poll" dies rather get my Finbarr Saunders going...
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 11

    Lib Dem odds on the 'Most Seats Without Labour' market were 6.0 when the YouGov poll dropped. Now trading at around 3.6 - 3.85 - big change!

    I need to trust my instincts more - I'm on at 13s but for a pittance. Thanks to the guidance of this place I'm on a 4/5 event winning run, should probably up my stakes!

    As an aside just topped up on Reform 8-10% at 17s and 10-12% at 10s.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    NOM 21 on BX. Almost worth another nibble at those odds.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,492
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Surely Ed Davey has to finish the campaign with this,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9M1m-dpgM
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    @SeaShantyIrish2 How would you see Green Party transfers going? mainly to FG and FF as they are more centrist than the Greens in Scotland or England & Wales?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited June 11
    Conservative Manifesto Part 3
    Our plan to control immigration and stop illegal immigration
    • Illegal immigration in unfair. Only Tories have plan to stop the votes. Deterrence works. Reform asylum
    • End students and care workers bringing dependents.
    • Legal cap on migration – say set at level taking account of costs and benefits, but also promises it will fall each year. Vote on cap each year.
    • Continue windrush compensation
    Our plan to deliver better health and social care
    • Build or modernise 350 GP surgeries
    • Build 50 more community diagonostic centres
    • 92k more nurses and 28k more doctors than in 2023 (note – I don’t believe you)
    • 2.5m more dental appointments
    • ‘continue to deliver 40 new hospitals by 2030 (note – so you’ve not done it yet)
    • Tobacco and vapes bill
    • Cut waste and bureaucracy (note – what an innovation!)
    • Prioritise women’s health. National strategy for maternity care
    • Expand mental health support coverage
    • New law for treatment and support for severe mental health needs
    • Apologised over blood scandal
    Our plan for safer streets and justice for victims of crime
    • 8k police office – new powers and tools to catch criminals, restore public trust
    • Martyn’s law – better prepared for terrorist attacks
    • Domestic abuse act
    • 25 year sentence for domestic murders,
    • Require offenders to attend hearings
    • 4 new prisons (note – where?)
    • Remove foreign offenders
    • Invest in rehabilitation
    • Independent public advocate
    • Tougher sentences for knife crime
    • Cut ‘Covid court backlog’
    • Protest bans outside schools
    • Ban climbing on war memorials (note – seems over the top)
    • do not tolerate anti-muslim hatred or antisemitic hatred
    Our plan for an affordable and pragmatic net zero transition
    • Annual licensing for oil and gas in North sea.
    • Treble offshore wind capacity. Build carbon capture and storage. Approve small modular reactors. Gigawatt power plan in north wales.
    • Secure future of steelmaking (note – how?)
    • Lower green levies, and no new ones.
    • Democratic consent for onshore wind (note – ie, prevent it)
    • Maintain energy price cap
    Our plan to build more houses in the right places (note – oh boy, you’ve lost me with the title already, we know what that is code for)
    • Abolish nutrient neutrality rules – ‘immediately unlock 100k homes’ (note – sounds like magic beans)
    • Tighten use of CIL
    • Brownfield, brownfield, brownfield
    • ‘cast iron’ commitment to protect the green belt
    • Leasehold reform
    • Permanent increase to stamp duty threshold
    • Our plan to strengthen communities
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,803
    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    YouGov has dropped, which can be said for Labour’s share, but Cons on 18% is staggering.

    📈📉NEW POLL
    @YouGov


    Labour lead at 20 points

    🔴LAB: 38% (-3)
    🔵CON: 18% (-1)
    🟣REF: 17% (+1)
    🟠LDEM: 15% (+4)
    🟢GRN: 8% (+1)

    If this continues the Cons could come 4th.

    However, it’s more likely they will pick up a bit surely?
    Maybe, but what explains the Lab drop to 38%?
    Tactical Voting coming through. This really isn’t difficult.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    Thing is, these are exactly the circumstances where Starmer should go all in and do the hard things, backed up by a manifesto commitment. Recalculate council tax. Sort social care. Reform the NHS. Reform the Lords.

    But he won’t, because thoughts will already be turning to the second turn.

    It’s the British disease. If not now, when? (All equally true of Boris in 2019 of course, especially since he had extra Covid cover for major structural reforms).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472

    NOM 21 on BX. Almost worth another nibble at those odds.

    My God! More abbreviations / acronyms! For God's sake, stop man! :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Farooq said:

    Can we also talk about how rubbish the men's names are in Biden's family? Robinette? Hunter? Beau? The hell is wrong with these people?

    Don't call your kid Hunter then be surprised he is up on firearm charges.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,742

    People are still exceeding the daily photo allowance.

    If this continues everybody's ability to post photos will be revoked.

    It is your call.

    So far, WilliamGlenn, Heathener, and KJH have exceeded their quota today.

    I'm hearing in the tones of the teacher who told us that a small minority were spoiling it for the rest of us.

    "Do you want us to just do Maths today, and not have a chance to enjoy the sunshine outside ? Because that's what'll happen."
    Your teacher was Rishi Sunak?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    NOM 21 on BX. Almost worth another nibble at those odds.

    Why is a Reform majority 220, and a LibDem majority 1000? Neither is likely, but LibDem pedigree surely makes them more likely? I suppose it is an exchange and just reflects those betting.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,835
    biggles said:

    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Can only happen if loads of grumpy Reform voters suddenly decide to back Sunak as lesser of two evils, rather than sticking to their guns, or sitting on their hands, or breaking for Labour in significant numbers.

    I came into this expecting the Tory vote to firm up significantly, as the fact that voters now had to actually pick a Government rather than complain/emote came into view, but there's no sign of swing back so far - and that includes among the vital elderly vote.
    I would suggest the only mechanism is if something cuts through about Labour that they can be galvanised to want to STOP. Sufficiently galvanised they overlook Sunak.

    Given Labour’s message discipline so far, that seems unlikely.
    Yes. The Ming Vase Marathon reaches it's conclusion with the manifesto launch on Thursday, I think. If that goes according to plan then all Sir Keir has to do is get to polling day without being filmed either throwing a sack of live puppies into the Thames or anywhere with a conspicuous EU flag in the background, and he's Prime Minister. Though actually, given the popularity of the outgoing administration, he might well survive even those.

    I am having visions now of Keir Starmer, wrapped in a huge EU flag, throwing a burning sack of live puppies into the Thames, whilst a chorus of trans women sing the Ode to Joy and the shadow cabinet march behind him, over a carpet made of Union Jacks and photos of the late Queen, whilst waving portraits of Marx and Stalin. That might - just - get us to a Hung Parliament.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,193
    Andy_JS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
    While doing a Mr Bean impression.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    NOM 21 on BX. Almost worth another nibble at those odds.

    My God! More abbreviations / acronyms! For God's sake, stop man! :)
    Translation - FGSSM!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited June 11
    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
    While doing a Mr Bean impression.
    Remember how Hague wearing a cap on the log flume was front page news.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Andy_JS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.

    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
    [Carefully removed the image from the quote lest that falls foul of the new quota rule]

    Ed Davey has done a great job. I’ve heard plenty of people referring positively to his attention-grabbing exploits.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,803

    Heathener said:

    Labour at 38% is a real surprise and the lib dems seem to be benefitting

    If other polls have Labour sub 40% then there may well be panic in labour

    I very much doubt it. It looks to me like the anti-Tory vote is just going to become ever more efficient. If this YouGov is the GE result the LibDems would almost certainly end up as the official opposition.

    I think this is right.

    My vote is in a three-way marginal and much as my political inclination is Labour, the fact is that the LibDem has the best chance of unseating the Conservative.

    So the LibDem will get my vote.

    Tactical voting could be a massive factor this time.

    Yep - I am voting LibDem on 4th July because where I am it's the them or the Tory.

    And me. But I’ve voted for the best chance of unseating a Tory ever since my first vote in 1987. SDP, SNP, Labour and LibDem have all had my x in that time.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    Stocky said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
    While doing a Mr Bean impression.
    Remember how Hague wearing a cap on the log flume was front page news.
    And remember how popular that made him!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 11
    Thing is too, Thorpe Park has been in the news with youngsters because of Hyperia, which re-opens again tomorrow (June 12th).

    So he’s right on the money.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    Imagine if Labour stays on 38 and Tories start eating up Reform.

    Unlikely with so much hate for Sunak, but @leon is right, if we got to 38/32 we’d all be debating if Labour could cling on for a majority.

    Can only happen if loads of grumpy Reform voters suddenly decide to back Sunak as lesser of two evils, rather than sticking to their guns, or sitting on their hands, or breaking for Labour in significant numbers.

    I came into this expecting the Tory vote to firm up significantly, as the fact that voters now had to actually pick a Government rather than complain/emote came into view, but there's no sign of swing back so far - and that includes among the vital elderly vote.
    I would suggest the only mechanism is if something cuts through about Labour that they can be galvanised to want to STOP. Sufficiently galvanised they overlook Sunak.

    Given Labour’s message discipline so far, that seems unlikely.
    Yes. The Ming Vase Marathon reaches it's conclusion with the manifesto launch on Thursday, I think. If that goes according to plan then all Sir Keir has to do is get to polling day without being filmed either throwing a sack of live puppies into the Thames or anywhere with a conspicuous EU flag in the background, and he's Prime Minister. Though actually, given the popularity of the outgoing administration, he might well survive even those.

    I am having visions now of Keir Starmer, wrapped in a huge EU flag, throwing a burning sack of live puppies into the Thames, whilst a chorus of trans women sing the Ode to Joy and the shadow cabinet march behind him, over a carpet made of Union Jacks and photos of the late Queen, whilst waving portraits of Marx and Stalin. That might - just - get us to a Hung Parliament.
    Labour staff, having read this post, are hurriedly cancelling the planned launch.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,008

    Surely Ed Davey has to finish the campaign with this,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9M1m-dpgM

    Naah. This :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEacFrHfcIU
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    biggles said:

    NOM 21 on BX. Almost worth another nibble at those odds.

    Why is a Reform majority 220, and a LibDem majority 1000? Neither is likely, but LibDem pedigree surely makes them more likely? I suppose it is an exchange and just reflects those betting.
    Lib Dem most seats is also 1000 which is a better bet than Lib Dem Majority. I actually think there's a tiny chance of that coming off if the Anti-Tory vote somehow very efficiently coalesces. Probably a 300/1 shot rather than 1000, haha.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    edited June 11
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Can we also talk about how rubbish the men's names are in Biden's family? Robinette? Hunter? Beau? The hell is wrong with these people?

    Don't call your kid Hunter then be surprised he is up on firearm charges.
    Tis ironic considering how the Republicans are so keen on ending restrictions on gun sales that that is what their pack got Hunter on.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Thinking of why the left wing is more likely to do tactical voting than the right seem willing to. Is it because the left are more willing to believe the opinion polls are correct and the right are more "That's what the polls are saying but everyone I know is Tory so the polls are rubbish"?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282

    mickydroy said:

    I have a feeling, that the BBC exit poll could be a tad tricky this year

    People say that every time. Never back
    against Sir John Curtice, as @TheScreamingEagles said earlier.
    Sir John Curtice is the Chuck Norris of psephology.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,075
    Andy_JS said:

    This must be the LDs best showing in any opinion poll for a very long time.

    well, they did get 17% in the local elections on 2nd May.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953

    Heathener said:

    Labour at 38% is a real surprise and the lib dems seem to be benefitting

    If other polls have Labour sub 40% then there may well be panic in labour

    I very much doubt it. It looks to me like the anti-Tory vote is just going to become ever more efficient. If this YouGov is the GE result the LibDems would almost certainly end up as the official opposition.

    I think this is right.

    My vote is in a three-way marginal and much as my political inclination is Labour, the fact is that the LibDem has the best chance of unseating the Conservative.

    So the LibDem will get my vote.

    Tactical voting could be a massive factor this time.

    Yep - I am voting LibDem on 4th July because where I am it's the them or the Tory.

    And me. But I’ve voted for the best chance of unseating a Tory ever since my first vote in 1987. SDP, SNP, Labour and LibDem have all had my x in that time.
    Out of interest, how many times were they your first choice as well?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 11
    DM_Andy said:

    @SeaShantyIrish2 How would you see Green Party transfers going? mainly to FG and FF as they are more centrist than the Greens in Scotland or England & Wales?

    Reckon that IF the Green gets the wack, his transfers would tend to go more to left than to FF or FG.
    Dublin Greens are not exactly enamored with their national coalition partners.

    Perhaps worth noting that, unlike in Cultchie-land beyond the Pale, Greens in the capital did NOT get clobbered in local elections for Dublin City Council, slipped some but held their own. Of course only part of Dublin Euro constituency, but just sayin.

    ADDENDUM - should say that while I have nodding acquaintance with Irish politics, have NOT been following it closely recently, indeed barely at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    viewcode said:

    Surely Ed Davey has to finish the campaign with this,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9M1m-dpgM

    Naah. This :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEacFrHfcIU
    Maybe that will be how he will arrive to the count?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,953
    viewcode said:

    Surely Ed Davey has to finish the campaign with this,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs9M1m-dpgM

    Naah. This :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEacFrHfcIU
    This and he gets my vote:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ratqB20diYE
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    Andy_JS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    I wonder if it might be that, whle many here , including me, weren't over-excited by the LD manifesto, they're quietly building a perception of themselves as both the more explicitly caring, and more fun party. The look on the bright side and make the best of it party, making Labour look more defensive.

    Social care + friendly Ed Davey = Positive messaging, less emotionally cautious than Labour.

    To make a semi-serious point for a moment. The Lib Dems are campaigning in images and they are all fun, happy ones. The Conservatives are campaigning in words and text (which can be fact checked and disputed) and it's images are sad and depressing. Perhaps the Libs have chanced upon an image-based approach that is more robust to FUD than other approaches.
    Happy Davey days.


    Ed Davey becomes the first person in history to ride a log flume while wearing a tie.
    Though also sports a dapper wetsuit on occasions.

    Apparently his team don't tell him until the day what the stunt is.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,803

    Is everything @Leon posts on here always such bs?

    He's either a wind-up merchant or stark raving bonkers. Which is it?

    He’s been on the Plato trajectory for quite a while.

    But with more holiday snaps.
This discussion has been closed.