"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
Difference is Lineker just generally parrots the left liberal establishment line. He never says anything remotely interesting.
I don't find him or Elon Musk that interesting. But that's no reason to cancel them.
Again an absurd statement. Elon Musk is interesting. He just is. He can alter the Ukraine war because of starlink. He can change the world through TwitterX. He owns and runs one of the world’s biggest electric car companies
Claiming he’s “uninteresting” is absolute gonads and is also a puff of pure copium
What am I coping with? I just don't find him that interesting.
First Anecdata: I've seen my first election signs. Orange diamonds up in Winchester and Romsey, both target areas.
Caroline Nokes flyer in my folks house in Romsey was multicoloured, almost rainbow, with lots about her and no mention of the Conservative Party on the front.
Still no mention in overheard conversations or even by my folks.
I feel like the Lib Dems are nailed on to gain Eastleigh and Winchester but I'm still on the fence about Romsey & Southampton North. The Lib Dems hold the Southampton wards of Bassett (Rishi's patch) and got a gain from Labour in Swaythling this year but I don't have a sense of how Romsey and the Test Valley are leaning. Any insight?
No real insight, just that the LDs have started their orange diamond campaign.
My Mum is a lifelong Tory member, but we didn't talk politics. She is no fan of Nokes, mostly for Nokes skiving off the Commons for her affair. She will still vote Tory.
I am on the Island for the long weekend. No signs visible here in IoW East. Hard to believe Bet 365 have Tories 2/1 here, with such an older Brexity population, albeit often low income and not keen on sewage. If Lab gain here it is an ELE for the Tories. 2/1 Tory hold worth a punt IMO.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h In 30 years of working in and writing about politics I’ve never seen a more catastrophic election launch. If Rishi Sunak doesn’t get a grip, this could be the Conservative Party’s last campaign
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h In 30 years of working in and writing about politics I’ve never seen a more catastrophic election launch. If Rishi Sunak doesn’t get a grip, this could be the Conservative Party’s last campaign
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
Difference is Lineker just generally parrots the left liberal establishment line. He never says anything remotely interesting.
I don't find him or Elon Musk that interesting. But that's no reason to cancel them.
Again an absurd statement. Elon Musk is interesting. He just is. He can alter the Ukraine war because of starlink. He can change the world through TwitterX. He owns and runs one of the world’s biggest electric car companies
Claiming he’s “uninteresting” is absolute gonads and is also a puff of pure copium
What am I coping with? I just don't find him that interesting.
I don’t find it interesting to discuss what you don’t find interesting about….
Zzzzzzz
{wakes up}
So shall we have a betting pool on the probable Labour majority? I go for 70.
When I first look at Elon Musk, one of the richest men in the world and the owner of Tesla, Starlink, and TwitterX, a cofounder of OpenAI AND PayPal, and probably the greatest engineer of the 21st century to date, I immediately think “god he’s stupid, what a thickie” and also “yawn, so boring”
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Wasn't it Harold Wilson's government that reduced the voting age from 21 to 18 only to lose the 18-21 demographic due to the pirate radio issue?
First Anecdata: I've seen my first election signs. Orange diamonds up in Winchester and Romsey, both target areas.
Caroline Nokes flyer in my folks house in Romsey was multicoloured, almost rainbow, with lots about her and no mention of the Conservative Party on the front.
Still no mention in overheard conversations or even by my folks.
Is Caroline Nokes standing for the Conservative Party?
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Libertarian convention devolves into fighting, obscenities on eve of Trump’s visit
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/24/libertarian-convention-fighting-obscenities-trump-visit-00160008 ..As delegates gathered at the Washington Hilton on the eve of his speech, the party’s decision to host the former president, which had split the organization, erupted Friday into open revolt. Fuming delegates at the convention said they plan to protest Trump’s speech, and one group sought unsuccessfully to remove the former president along with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., from the agenda — a move that resulted in thrown punches and obscenities between supporters and opponents of the move.
“I would like to propose that we go tell Donald Trump to go fuck himself!” Kaelan Dreyer, a Libertarian from New Mexico, yelled into a microphone, winning cheers from the crowd. After shouting vulgarities at the convention’s chair and fending off punches, he was led out of the convention hall...
Well, I'm glad they are not totally in awe of the big man - most US Libertaraisn seem the types who would be fans of big government when directed by someone who will enforce what they like.
Small "l" American libertarians? Maybe, though likely NOT when it's put to them like that!
But Libertarians with a capital "L" as in active members or supporters of the Libertarian Party? Think you're (perhaps) off-base there, at least based on my own experience.
However, in USA both libertarians AND Libertarians are a quite diverse bunch, to put it mildly.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h In 30 years of working in and writing about politics I’ve never seen a more catastrophic election launch. If Rishi Sunak doesn’t get a grip, this could be the Conservative Party’s last campaign
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
The difference is Gary Lineker is a decent footballer in semi retirement as a commentator, and Elon Musk is an extraordinary genius who is literally reshaping the world
Should we listen to either? Maybe not. But if I had to choose one it would be Musk, obvs
Of course - he is very right wing so says things you like to hear.
Your Overton window needs adjusting. He’s not “very right wing”. Please provide evidence
He’s right wing. But to a numbskull lefty that means he’s basically Hitler
If and when I edit PB (and it's only a matter of time), the only change I would instigate would be to ban the words "right" and "left" when talking about politics.
The terms have been so devalued as to be meaningless and are now just perjoratives..
There is no doubt more of the brutality of the 20th century was caused by those who called themselves "Communist" than those who called "Fascist" or "Nazi" (and let's not forget the brutality of those who used neither term and called themselves "Freedom Fighters" for example) but if you're getting a bullet in the back of the head the political identity of the one pulling the trigger is immaterial.
As others have said, if you go far enough to the extremes you meet up and the 20th century shows inhumanity is a concept common to all those who travel far enough down the two political roads.
Libertarian convention devolves into fighting, obscenities on eve of Trump’s visit
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/24/libertarian-convention-fighting-obscenities-trump-visit-00160008 ..As delegates gathered at the Washington Hilton on the eve of his speech, the party’s decision to host the former president, which had split the organization, erupted Friday into open revolt. Fuming delegates at the convention said they plan to protest Trump’s speech, and one group sought unsuccessfully to remove the former president along with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., from the agenda — a move that resulted in thrown punches and obscenities between supporters and opponents of the move.
“I would like to propose that we go tell Donald Trump to go fuck himself!” Kaelan Dreyer, a Libertarian from New Mexico, yelled into a microphone, winning cheers from the crowd. After shouting vulgarities at the convention’s chair and fending off punches, he was led out of the convention hall...
Well, I'm glad they are not totally in awe of the big man - most US Libertaraisn seem the types who would be fans of big government when directed by someone who will enforce what they like.
Small "l" American libertarians? Maybe, though likely NOT when it's put to them like that!
But Libertarians with a capital "L" as in active members or supporters of the Libertarian Party? Think you're (perhaps) off-base there, at least based on my own experience.
However, in USA both libertarians AND Libertarians are a quite diverse bunch, to put it mildly.
I suppose the issue is most self described libertarians are probably not actually libertarians, most are authoritarian.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
The difference is Gary Lineker is a decent footballer in semi retirement as a commentator, and Elon Musk is an extraordinary genius who is literally reshaping the world
Should we listen to either? Maybe not. But if I had to choose one it would be Musk, obvs
Of course - he is very right wing so says things you like to hear.
Your Overton window needs adjusting. He’s not “very right wing”. Please provide evidence
He’s right wing. But to a numbskull lefty that means he’s basically Hitler
Have you been enjoying happy hour at the World's End?
No one has said he is Hitler, but he does have some ideas from Apartheid era South Africa, which is fair enough bearing in mind he grew up in Apartheid era South Africa. I doubt he was ever a card carrying member of the ANC.
As to his business genius, he's a bit like Trump, a dreadful businessman who seems to attract investors. SpaceX, X (formerly known as Twitter) Tesla, the Cybertruck/Clusterf***. have all gone down some odd business roads on Musk's whim.
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Musk is not a genius. He's literally taken a recognisable brand and thrown it away. He is thick.
And there it is. Elon Musk is “thick”
It is fascinating. It is a pathology
I refer you to my previous posts on this: we are all thick at times; even the most intelligent of us. In fact, the more intelligent you are, the more likely you are to make truly stupid ("thick") mistakes - because you overly trust your judgement, and so may other people. If you think someone's stupid, you generally don't trust them with anything important.
Early reports on the LibDems: their leader is toxic on the Post Office scandal...
What reports are these? Are you canvassing?
Let's stop calling a spade a garden implement.
@MarqueeMark is a Conservative activist facing a Lib Dem challenge in his seat. - he's not going to be objective about this. It's probably on the script when he meets a dithering ex-Conservative so I wouldn't put too much significance into it - if it wasn't this it would be the old "you know when it comes to it they'll back Labour" schtick.
His purpose is to dissuade uncertain Conservatives from backing the LDs and bring them back into the fold.
Oh, the Tories weren't in charge of the PO then? Notd even a teensy weensy bittockie?
Inasmuch as the Conservatives led the Government from 2010-15 in coalition with the LDs, true. There have been Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat Ministers in charge of the Post Office during the long period of this scandal.
Yet for some reason the focus seems on Davey's tenure - can't imagine why.
ask Markey Mark?
It wouldn't matter - in a seat where the Conservatives are facing a Liberal Democrat challenge, they have to use any weapon they can to stop voters supporting the LDs. If they didn't use Davey's time running the Post Office, they'd think of something else - attack lines aren't difficult to create.
This morning we had Boris Johnson claiming Starmer would lead the "most hard left Government since the 1970s". Somebody better tell @bigjohnowls Starmer's Labour party is "hard left".
Of course, Johnson's article was aimed squarely at the Daily Mail demographic who are constantly fed propaganda to leave them terrified of anything to do with modern life and society.
He didn't run it. He was responsible for it, he met Bates and pretty much ignored what he had to say. You may of course say that there were a load of Tory business secs who didn't even get as far as meeting Bates, but I can see how this will have traction against Davey. He has been very quiet and off air since the thing blew up.
That's right, Meg.
Davy has been kind of unlucky and kind of not. He did more than his predecessors but less than he should.
In the circumstances, keeping quiet about it for the moment is probably the best strategy. He will have his chance to put his side of things when he appears before the Inquiry. I suspect he will be able to say that he was lied to, and probably with some justification, but neither he nor anybody else will be able to dispute that a major contributory factor in this scandal was Government's failure to find out what was going on in the business it wholly owned, where all the money was going, and why.
It was unacceptable negligence, by a succession of governments.
Edit: I've just noticed his appearance is scheduled for after the GE. That probably means the scandal will do him no harm, but he misses the chance to do himself some good by his appearance.
Swinson probably had more to be concerned about, but everyone seems to have forgotten about her. Cable likewise has nothing to be proud of, but is out of the firing line these days.
There was another Liberal Minister who actually won some rare praise from Bates for attempts to get to grips with the scandal, but his name escapes me, and in any case he was moved on before he could do much good.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
The difference is Gary Lineker is a decent footballer in semi retirement as a commentator, and Elon Musk is an extraordinary genius who is literally reshaping the world
Should we listen to either? Maybe not. But if I had to choose one it would be Musk, obvs
Of course - he is very right wing so says things you like to hear.
Your Overton window needs adjusting. He’s not “very right wing”. Please provide evidence
He’s right wing. But to a numbskull lefty that means he’s basically Hitler
If and when I edit PB (and it's only a matter of time), the only change I would instigate would be to ban the words "right" and "left" when talking about politics.
The terms have been so devalued as to be meaningless and are now just perjoratives..
There is no doubt more of the brutality of the 20th century was caused by those who called themselves "Communist" than those who called "Fascist" or "Nazi" (and let's not forget the brutality of those who used neither term and called themselves "Freedom Fighters" for example) but if you're getting a bullet in the back of the head the political identity of the one pulling the trigger is immaterial.
As others have said, if you go far enough to the extremes you meet up and the 20th century shows inhumanity is a concept common to all those who travel far enough down the two political roads.
I whole heartedly agree with that. Left and right aren’t just redundant as terms they are positively counter productive. We need a new topography of politics
Eg when the far left allies with the quasi fascist theocracy of islamism - which it does - what does “left” mean any more? Worse than nothing
Not really. A Con-LD marginal. One so marginal that it's likely to flip, granted, but more broadly the Tories' best chance of avoiding a wipeout is to tell MPs in the red wall gains to look to their own defences and try to hold as much as possible of the traditional Southern English heartland.
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Why?
Because I think we should be allowing people to in general vote for the future not the past. The current voting arrangement overwhelmingly has favoured elderly people who let's face it will be dead quite soon, whilst younger working people are shafted. If the Tories were competent the young might even vote for them, as they did for Mrs Thatcher.
I think the more people that vote, the better, so I'd be happy to not have the limit on voting age if they reduced the age you could vote from.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
Don't be silly, the right wing are all for freedom of speech, they never resort to cancel culture - well unless you make the Prime Minister look silly by playing some 1990s hit single.
Peter Cunnah owes Steve Bray a pint. I've heard 'Things Can Only...' being played six or seven times since Rishi's comic turn in the rain - in the park (twice), from a car passing by in the street, from my upstairs neighbours' window, on the tube, and on a work social Zoom call.
I imagine that his next royalty cheque will be much larger than he'd been expecting!
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I don’t care what you think on this other than to find you comical. Sorry
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
As above, I owned Tesla stock since 2014. He's gone completely off the deep end though.
He literally called one of the cave divers a paedophile. What is that if not thick?
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I don’t care what you think on this other than to find you comical. Sorry
I do agree a little that regarding Muskas boring is a bit odd, but on the other hand you obviously do care what people think on this because you keep asking why people think the way they do on it!
My take on him is please focus on rockets, not being an edgelord. That seems a better use of his talents.
Early reports on the LibDems: their leader is toxic on the Post Office scandal...
What reports are these? Are you canvassing?
Let's stop calling a spade a garden implement.
@MarqueeMark is a Conservative activist facing a Lib Dem challenge in his seat. - he's not going to be objective about this. It's probably on the script when he meets a dithering ex-Conservative so I wouldn't put too much significance into it - if it wasn't this it would be the old "you know when it comes to it they'll back Labour" schtick.
His purpose is to dissuade uncertain Conservatives from backing the LDs and bring them back into the fold.
Oh, the Tories weren't in charge of the PO then? Notd even a teensy weensy bittockie?
Inasmuch as the Conservatives led the Government from 2010-15 in coalition with the LDs, true. There have been Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat Ministers in charge of the Post Office during the long period of this scandal.
Yet for some reason the focus seems on Davey's tenure - can't imagine why.
ask Markey Mark?
It wouldn't matter - in a seat where the Conservatives are facing a Liberal Democrat challenge, they have to use any weapon they can to stop voters supporting the LDs. If they didn't use Davey's time running the Post Office, they'd think of something else - attack lines aren't difficult to create.
This morning we had Boris Johnson claiming Starmer would lead the "most hard left Government since the 1970s". Somebody better tell @bigjohnowls Starmer's Labour party is "hard left".
Of course, Johnson's article was aimed squarely at the Daily Mail demographic who are constantly fed propaganda to leave them terrified of anything to do with modern life and society.
He didn't run it. He was responsible for it, he met Bates and pretty much ignored what he had to say. You may of course say that there were a load of Tory business secs who didn't even get as far as meeting Bates, but I can see how this will have traction against Davey. He has been very quiet and off air since the thing blew up.
That's right, Meg.
Davy has been kind of unlucky and kind of not. He did more than his predecessors but less than he should.
In the circumstances, keeping quiet about it for the moment is probably the best strategy. He will have his chance to put his side of things when he appears before the Inquiry. I suspect he will be able to say that he was lied to, and probably with some justification, but neither he nor anybody else will be able to dispute that a major contributory factor in this scandal was Government's failure to find out what was going on in the business it wholly owned, where all the money was going, and why.
It was unacceptable negligence, by a succession of governments.
Edit: I've just noticed his appearance is scheduled for after the GE. That probably means the scandal will do him no harm, but he misses the chance to do himself some good by his appearance.
Swinson probably had more to be concerned about, but everyone seems to have forgotten about her. Cable likewise has nothing to be proud of, but is out of the firing line these days.
There was another Liberal Minister who actually won some rare praise from Bates for attempts to get to grips with the scandal, but his name escapes me, and in any case he was moved on before he could do much good.
Edit (again): It was Norman Lamb. Sorry, but my memory is a bit Post Office these days.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
The difference is Gary Lineker is a decent footballer in semi retirement as a commentator, and Elon Musk is an extraordinary genius who is literally reshaping the world
Should we listen to either? Maybe not. But if I had to choose one it would be Musk, obvs
Thank goodness you're not a Musk fanboi else sickbags might have had to be passed.
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
As above, I owned Tesla stock since 2014. He's gone completely off the deep end though.
He literally called one of the cave divers a paedophile. What is that if not thick?
Not really. A Con-LD marginal. One so marginal that it's likely to flip, granted, but more broadly the Tories' best chance of avoiding a wipeout is to tell MPs in the red wall gains to look to their own defences and try to hold as much as possible of the traditional Southern English heartland.
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
Getting rid of NI is in the long term interests of the country. A part of the road to equalising taxation on all income.
Not really. A Con-LD marginal. One so marginal that it's likely to flip, granted, but more broadly the Tories' best chance of avoiding a wipeout is to tell MPs in the red wall gains to look to their own defences and try to hold as much as possible of the traditional Southern English heartland.
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
My Brother is in Wimbledon, and campaigning for Labour, motivated particularly by working with Tory ministers for the last decade before he retired from the CS. It could be a 3 way marginal, but he favours Labour.
I really think the Tories need a better line than "take us back to square one".
Yes, but the Conservatives are so lowly regarded that do they have any better lines to sell?
The best remaining hope is to scour the Labour manifesto line by line for any ammunition that can be used to scare rich old people back into the fold, but Starmer and Reeves aren't stupid. They're unlikely to make a "dementia tax" style gaffe.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I don’t care what you think on this other than to find you comical. Sorry
I do agree a little that regarding Muskas boring is a bit odd, but on the other hand you obviously do care what people think on this because you keep asking why people think the way they do on it!
My take on him is please focus on rockets, not being an edgelord. That seems a better use of his talents.
Because it is a genuine pathology. A syndrome. Musk derangement. And the human mind fascinates me and I like to probe it. Also it’s fun to to provoke these loons
Not really. A Con-LD marginal. One so marginal that it's likely to flip, granted, but more broadly the Tories' best chance of avoiding a wipeout is to tell MPs in the red wall gains to look to their own defences and try to hold as much as possible of the traditional Southern English heartland.
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
If Rishi and Hunt have any political nous they will do a reverse May and go even further than Osborne's IHT cut and announce IHT will be abolished in the Tory manifesto for all estates under £2 million if the Tories are re elected. That is a policy that would have huge appeal to voters over 50 in the bluewall in particular and as you say the redwall is gone so they need to shore up the bluewall seats in the Home Counties and West London in particular
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
Don't be silly, the right wing are all for freedom of speech, they never resort to cancel culture - well unless you make the Prime Minister look silly by playing some 1990s hit single.
Peter Cunnah owes Steve Bray a pint. I've heard 'Things Can Only...' being played six or seven times since Rishi's comic turn in the rain - in the park (twice), from a car passing by in the street, from my upstairs neighbours' window, on the tube, and on a work social Zoom call.
I imagine that his next royalty cheque will be much larger than he'd been expecting!
Quite possible we’ll hear it chanted in unison from the terraces in at least one Euros match.
Is Elon Musk the early-21st century version of early-20th century techno-business-political giant Henry Ford?
Similarities include (short list) > pioneer in innovative, indeed world-changing transportation technology > politically morphed from reasonably-progressive circa 1912 into an an anti-Semitic, union-busting conservative > for example, went from funding the anti-WW1 "Peace Ship" to promoting "Chronicles of the Elders of Zion".
Lowering the voting age to 16 was in the 2015, 2017 & 2019 manifestos, so not really a big surprise that it will be in this one.
I assume they are also planning on correspondingly lowering the age for Jury Service, buying alcohol, entering into contracts, driving and serving on the front line in the armed forces? Voting is just as important as all these things so it is hypocritical to argue that that one aspect of adulthood should be changed but not the others.
Oh and I would also expect them to end the compulsion to remain in education until 18. After all why should the Government be forcing adults to stay in education against their will?
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I don’t care what you think on this other than to find you comical. Sorry
I do agree a little that regarding Muskas boring is a bit odd, but on the other hand you obviously do care what people think on this because you keep asking why people think the way they do on it!
My take on him is please focus on rockets, not being an edgelord. That seems a better use of his talents.
Because it is a genuine pathology. A syndrome. Musk derangement. And the human mind fascinates me and I like to probe it. Also it’s fun to to provoke these loons
So you're not interested in finding out the reasons why people that don't like Elon Musk. You're only interested in telling them why you think they don't like him.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
Don't be silly, the right wing are all for freedom of speech, they never resort to cancel culture - well unless you make the Prime Minister look silly by playing some 1990s hit single.
Peter Cunnah owes Steve Bray a pint. I've heard 'Things Can Only...' being played six or seven times since Rishi's comic turn in the rain - in the park (twice), from a car passing by in the street, from my upstairs neighbours' window, on the tube, and on a work social Zoom call.
I imagine that his next royalty cheque will be much larger than he'd been expecting!
Quite possible we’ll hear it chanted in unison from the terraces in at least one Euros match.
Is this when England mess up the group game and lose to Germany in the knock-out stages?
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I don’t care what you think on this other than to find you comical. Sorry
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Why?
Because I think we should be allowing people to in general vote for the future not the past. The current voting arrangement overwhelmingly has favoured elderly people who let's face it will be dead quite soon, whilst younger working people are shafted. If the Tories were competent the young might even vote for them, as they did for Mrs Thatcher.
I think the more people that vote, the better, so I'd be happy to not have the limit on voting age if they reduced the age you could vote from.
Lowering the voting age to 16 was in the 2015, 2017 & 2019 manifestos, so not really a big surprise that it will be in this one.
I assume they are also planning on correspondingly lowering the age for Jury Service, buying alcohol, entering into contracts, driving and serving on the front line in the armed forces? Voting is just as important as all these things so it is hypocritical to argue that that one aspect of adulthood should be changed but not the others.
Oh and I would also expect them to end the compulsion to remain in education until 18. After all why should the Government be forcing adults to stay in education against their will?
I actually agree that all of these should be from 16, yes.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
You see something similar in the right's reaction to Gary Lineker. Try as they might to shut him down, they do not succeed, so they just attack him relentlessly instead.
The difference is Gary Lineker is a decent footballer in semi retirement as a commentator, and Elon Musk is an extraordinary genius who is literally reshaping the world
Should we listen to either? Maybe not. But if I had to choose one it would be Musk, obvs
Thank goodness you're not a Musk fanboi else sickbags might have had to be passed.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
Does it matter if he's a liar? It would matter if he were a politician or lawyer, and it would matter if he were doing a Theranos on us. The rockets really do land themselves and a Tesla really does do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds and Starlink really does deliver the fastest broadband you will ever see when you are so far into the Pacific that the closest humans are often on the ISS. What lies has he told that alter any of that?
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Why?
Because I think we should be allowing people to in general vote for the future not the past. The current voting arrangement overwhelmingly has favoured elderly people who let's face it will be dead quite soon, whilst younger working people are shafted. If the Tories were competent the young might even vote for them, as they did for Mrs Thatcher.
I think the more people that vote, the better, so I'd be happy to not have the limit on voting age if they reduced the age you could vote from.
Even if it were a good idea - and despite being frustrated by the age focus in our elections I don't think it is - I don't see how it could work even in practical terms.
An 80 year old might be predicted to die within the next parliamentary term, but they also might well make it to 100 for all we know, they would in fact still face some longer term consequences for their vote despite being so old. There seems no way to identify how old is too old. And what if the next election came before the scheduled end of term? Would they be restricted in voting at a GE but still be allowed at the next Locals as the possible term is less?
Votes for 16 and 17 year olds and also allow immigrants to vote after being here for some amount of time. Remove the rule to allow people abroad to vote, if they've left the country they lose their right.
Both parties have tried to stack the deck slightly in their favour. It doesn't work.
This won't either.
Actually for me this is nothing about that, it's that 16 and 17 year olds should be allowed to vote on principle. But then I'd also have an age limit on voting if I was in charge.
Why?
Because I think we should be allowing people to in general vote for the future not the past. The current voting arrangement overwhelmingly has favoured elderly people who let's face it will be dead quite soon, whilst younger working people are shafted. If the Tories were competent the young might even vote for them, as they did for Mrs Thatcher.
I think the more people that vote, the better, so I'd be happy to not have the limit on voting age if they reduced the age you could vote from.
So where would you set the upper age limit?
We should introduce the Malmesbury Voting System.
MVS advantages include
- it’s both FPTP and every system of proportional representation ever devised - Personation is impossible - Counting is instant - Delivers the perfect result every time - Strictly One Man, One Vote
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
It is genuinely baffling that Rishi seems to be repeating the 2017 May campaign.
I think we’re underestimating him. There are going to be surprising pockets of strong Tory support. I’ve been chatting to @Mexicanpete about this. Plenty of evidence:
- Devon and the rest of thf Southwest is proving very resilient based on @MarqueeMark casual interactions while leafletting. Disgust for Davey’s behaviour on the PO scandal in stark contrast to the faultless record of all Tory post office ministers since means that region is nailed on. That’s led him to make his confident prediction of Labour 1 short of a majority with Corbyn holding the balance of power - We already know outer London is sticking Tory due to ULEZ and hatred of Khan - Wales will punish the incumbents, who have infuriated the entire nation with their 20mph limits, meaning Labour will badly underperform - All seats with large Hindu populations are secure - The collapse of the SNP opens up opportunities in Scotland
Lowering the voting age to 16 was in the 2015, 2017 & 2019 manifestos, so not really a big surprise that it will be in this one.
I assume they are also planning on correspondingly lowering the age for Jury Service, buying alcohol, entering into contracts, driving and serving on the front line in the armed forces? Voting is just as important as all these things so it is hypocritical to argue that that one aspect of adulthood should be changed but not the others.
Oh and I would also expect them to end the compulsion to remain in education until 18. After all why should the Government be forcing adults to stay in education against their will?
My daughter turns 18 three weeks after the election, so will spend about 99% of the next parliament eligible to vote, but have no say. I have a proposal to address this injustice: everyone gets a vote on their 18th birthday. If the vote switches the result in any constituency, the MP is replaced. It will encourage young people to vote and create a civic mentality from a young age. And keep the government on its toes and attentive to the views of young people, too. For double fun cancel the votes if anyone who dies. For triple fun apply to referendum results too!
It is genuinely baffling that Rishi seems to be repeating the 2017 May campaign.
I think we’re underestimating him. There are going to be surprising pockets of strong Tory support. I’ve been chatting to @Mexicanpete about this. Plenty of evidence:
- Devon and the rest of thf Southwest is proving very resilient based on @MarqueeMark casual interactions while leafletting. Disgust for Davey’s behaviour on the PO scandal in stark contrast to the faultless record of all Tory post office ministers since means that region is nailed on. That’s led him to make his confident prediction of Labour 1 short of a majority with Corbyn holding the balance of power - We already know outer London is sticking Tory due to ULEZ and hatred of Khan - Wales will punish the incumbents, who have infuriated the entire nation with their 20mph limits, meaning Labour will badly underperform - All seats with large Hindu populations are secure - The collapse of the SNP opens up opportunities in Scotland
Hung parliament.
I am of the view Hung Parliament is likely because of the mountain Labour has to climb. I still think if they achieved a Hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party that's a massive win for SKS relative to 2019 but clearly will be seen publicly as a "disappointment".
I am not going to make a call yet but your post has convinced me more of the case.
Holy shit. A guy just made a motion at the Libertarian National Convention for “Donald Trump to go f*ck himself” and the crowd all applauded. Trump is scheduled to speak tomorrow... https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1794164051557454041
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
Lowering the voting age to 16 was in the 2015, 2017 & 2019 manifestos, so not really a big surprise that it will be in this one.
I assume they are also planning on correspondingly lowering the age for Jury Service, buying alcohol, entering into contracts, driving and serving on the front line in the armed forces? Voting is just as important as all these things so it is hypocritical to argue that that one aspect of adulthood should be changed but not the others.
Oh and I would also expect them to end the compulsion to remain in education until 18. After all why should the Government be forcing adults to stay in education against their will?
I actually agree that all of these should be from 16, yes.
Which is fair enough, yet I suspect there will not be a comprehensive look at these things but just a quick change re voting.
Which would indicate there isn't some grand principle about what we think it means to be a child or an adult, or where the balance lies in civic responsibility and age, but about perceived advantage.
Which is why most changes come in, but will make it more a political move than a principled one, even though I'm sure Keir and others so agree with the idea in principle as well.
Several tweets follow this. It is utter meaningless drivel.
I am a huge sceptic of Tory Canada result, but I am beginning to wonder frankly...
You need to get used to it.
The Conservatives are going to fight this.
They are but it doesn't mean they will get anywhere. The idea that the tories are the 'strong and stable' option is not credible. They are now seen as the party of chaos. The only way this strategy can work is if they can make the labour party look dangerous.
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
Not really. A Con-LD marginal. One so marginal that it's likely to flip, granted, but more broadly the Tories' best chance of avoiding a wipeout is to tell MPs in the red wall gains to look to their own defences and try to hold as much as possible of the traditional Southern English heartland.
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
Getting rid of NI is in the long term interests of the country. A part of the road to equalising taxation on all income.
That's a wholly reasonable argument (indeed, without embarking on another diatribe on the topic, I'm heavily in favour of reducing earned income taxation as a whole and shifting the burden heavily onto assets, especially residential property and inheritances.) It was, however, a political own goal from the Tory POV. Their core vote is old, and pensioners don't pay NI. So, despite having been treated far more leniently than the working age population for the entirety of the past fourteen years, the OAP vote and its lobbyists still whined like fury about being left out of the giveaway. Hardly helpful when there's a desperate need to shore up as much support as possible.
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
So? the strict campaign spending limits haven't kicked in yet so there's no laws broken.
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
And?
Doesn't mean it won't cost the public money and means he can campaign more widely around the country?
I know most people disagree with me about not being bothered by the PM using helicopters generally, but I really don't get the issue if it is a donor for use as part of the campaign (so long as the cost is accounted for as part of campaign expenses).
It is genuinely baffling that Rishi seems to be repeating the 2017 May campaign.
I think we’re underestimating him. There are going to be surprising pockets of strong Tory support. I’ve been chatting to @Mexicanpete about this. Plenty of evidence:
- Devon and the rest of thf Southwest is proving very resilient based on @MarqueeMark casual interactions while leafletting. Disgust for Davey’s behaviour on the PO scandal in stark contrast to the faultless record of all Tory post office ministers since means that region is nailed on. That’s led him to make his confident prediction of Labour 1 short of a majority with Corbyn holding the balance of power - We already know outer London is sticking Tory due to ULEZ and hatred of Khan - Wales will punish the incumbents, who have infuriated the entire nation with their 20mph limits, meaning Labour will badly underperform - All seats with large Hindu populations are secure - The collapse of the SNP opens up opportunities in Scotland
Hung parliament.
I am of the view Hung Parliament is likely because of the mountain Labour has to climb. I still think if they achieved a Hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party that's a massive win for SKS relative to 2019 but clearly will be seen publicly as a "disappointment".
I am not going to make a call yet but your post has convinced me more of the case.
Relevant betting question, if you back X most seats does that include X majority or only X most seats but NOM?
Several tweets follow this. It is utter meaningless drivel.
I am a huge sceptic of Tory Canada result, but I am beginning to wonder frankly...
There are of course a number of problems with this dividing line, the most obvious of which is that nobody knows what the Tories’ plan actually is because they never get round to telling anyone, while Labour talks about its policies all the time. Indeed, just last week - as discussed in my previous post - Keir Starmer announced six “first steps for change” he would take if elected, as the initial moves in what he explicitly describes as a “decade of national renewal”. You are quite entitled to think that this plan is rubbish, but not that it doesn’t exist.
Indeed, last week the Tories launched another staple of governing party election campaigns, a spending dossier laying out what it claimed were the costs of a big set of Labour policies, including costings carried out by Treasury officials on the basis of assumptions by special advisers
Labour disputes many of the assumptions in the dossier, and its rebuttal document is quite fun. But the relevance of that for now is that it is very hard to square “look at all of these Labour policies, here’s what they cost” with “Labour hasn’t got a plan”, because the entire attack relies on looking at Labour’s plans and assuming that they are actual plans. Which may help to explain why Jeremy Hunt’s speech launching the dossier does not include the argument that Labour has no plan.
On topic - thing that strikes me about the bar chart (with spaghetti) is that the line for first-choice Conservative voters saying they will switch tactically to Reform, appears to significantly exceed the line for first-choice Reformers saying they will switch to CUP in their constituency.
Is this just folks misunderstanding the question OR the actual likely voting choices in their constituencies? OR something different, and much more problematic for the Tories?
My guess is some combination of the above. But what combo?
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
To be honest, I am sure nobody believes me but I think the youth vote could be an opportunity for the Tories if they wanted it to be.
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
To be honest, I am sure nobody believes me but I think the youth vote could be an opportunity for the Tories if they wanted it to be.
I thought that young people were all Nazis anyway, I'm sure I read that somewhere.
Man of the People Richi, chatting to his mates in the local spoons this morning before (checks notes) climbing into his millionaire mate's helicopter for a lift back to London...
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
Who the fuck cares? Honestly, can we have these posts with no comment or links banned?
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h In 30 years of working in and writing about politics I’ve never seen a more catastrophic election launch. If Rishi Sunak doesn’t get a grip, this could be the Conservative Party’s last campaign
It is genuinely baffling that Rishi seems to be repeating the 2017 May campaign.
I think we’re underestimating him. There are going to be surprising pockets of strong Tory support. I’ve been chatting to @Mexicanpete about this. Plenty of evidence:
- Devon and the rest of thf Southwest is proving very resilient based on @MarqueeMark casual interactions while leafletting. Disgust for Davey’s behaviour on the PO scandal in stark contrast to the faultless record of all Tory post office ministers since means that region is nailed on. That’s led him to make his confident prediction of Labour 1 short of a majority with Corbyn holding the balance of power - We already know outer London is sticking Tory due to ULEZ and hatred of Khan - Wales will punish the incumbents, who have infuriated the entire nation with their 20mph limits, meaning Labour will badly underperform - All seats with large Hindu populations are secure - The collapse of the SNP opens up opportunities in Scotland
Hung parliament.
That's an exaggeration.
However, it may well be an important issue in the north-east of Wales. That's where the greatest resentment seems to be stored up largely due to a botched implementation. It's also where a very large chunk of Labour – Tory marginals are.
The corruption allegations swirling around Vaughan Gethin may also not help.
At this point though, I should remind everyone that since 1918 nobody has got rich betting against Labour in Wales.
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
Pretty much all sides supported reducing the voting age for women from 30 to 21 in 1928.
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Turkeys don't enfranchise voters for Christmas.
The thing about trying to fix the franchise (Labour on this, Tories in voter ID) is that the result is far from predictable. Ten years from now, Sod’s Law says we’re debating a Tory rising to power on the youth vote, offering choice and freedom against a dying, boring, restrictive Starmer regime.
"I think [Musk is] really great. No caveats on that."
*** I agree. He is touched with greatness. Lex Fridman has called him "the great maker of our time" and that rings true
He is one of the top ten engineers in history? He's right up there with Tesla, Brunel and Edison etc
This doesn't stop him being a pain in the arse quite a lot of the time; indeed the two might well be linked
Is the basic problem that he can't be cancelled? That is why I think he is hated; he is a threat to the cultural dominance of the left.
Interesting: and maybe
@rcs1000 compared him to JK Rowling on the last thread. She's another person who annoys lefties but cannot be cancelled due to power and wealth
It isn't completely about 'power and wealth' though, both Musk and Rowling are making points with widespread popular support that cannot just be shut down through 'cancellation' anymore; and so are completely reshaping public discourse about various issues, which is massively annoying to some people.
I don't really like Musk because I feel like he thinks he's an expert on everything yet he appears to believe anything he reads online if it fits his preferred politics, plus he likes to act tough then whinge like a crybaby when he faces any kind of consequences (see his pathetic 'F*ck you' comments around Disney, pretending not to care what they did whilst obviously livid), but I think there is something in what you say in that most people or companies would change their tune or at least dial it back if facing the online backlash that he gets, and that probably does enrage people who find they cannot influence what he or his companies do.
Musk's biggest problem is that he's a liar. He'll lie about business: e.g. an automated drive across the USA; or the Tesla robotaxis that should have been all over our cities years ago. He'll lie about the personal: the lie that he never takes holidays, or that his child died in his arms. He is a constant liar.
Musk's biggest advantage is that he has a crowd of followers who slurp up those lies and deny that fact they're lies, or excuse them, or screech "Musk time!". Often because they are trying to ramp investments in Tesla, crypto or just because it's trendy to excuse his lies, like they get some reflected glory.
Musk has achieved two amazing things: but they were very dependent on luck and timing. It very nearly ended badly, particularly back in 2008. He's also slurped up US government largesse - though tbf, a=many rich people manage that.
You are one of the craziest musk-o-phobes on PB. He absolutely triggers you and you are reduced to these absurd allegations “oh he just got lucky twice”
I was a fan of Musk before it was popular - I bet there'll be examples on PB of me praising him a decade or more ago. Then came the Thai nonsense; Vance's hagiography, and I started to realise what he was, and how he operated.
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
Does it matter if he's a liar? It would matter if he were a politician or lawyer, and it would matter if he were doing a Theranos on us. The rockets really do land themselves and a Tesla really does do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds and Starlink really does deliver the fastest broadband you will ever see when you are so far into the Pacific that the closest humans are often on the ISS. What lies has he told that alter any of that?
Yes, it matters. If people buy a Tesla, in part, because they think it will pay for itself in a year by being a Robotaxi (back in 2020...), or because it has all the hardware required for full autonomous driving, etc.
It's called misleading advertising, and in a sane country he would have been hauled over the coals for it.
Many of the other lies are important as well, for other reasons.
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
Pretty much all sides supported reducing the voting age for women from 30 to 21 in 1928.
So tempting...so tempting...the Harry Enfield link is queued up....
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
Who the fuck cares? Honestly, can we have these posts with no comment or links banned?
If 16 and 17 year olds were more conservative than average in their voting habits, does anyone think Labour would be proposing to let them vote in elections?
Nobody ever puts forward changes to the franchise unless they’re convinced it will benefit their side.
Pretty much all sides supported reducing the voting age for women from 30 to 21 in 1928.
Because all sides were convinced it would help them. Labour thought young women wouldn't vote Tory and CCO knew they would.
Man of the People Richi, chatting to his mates in the local spoons this morning before (checks notes) climbing into his millionaire mate's helicopter for a lift back to London...
Yep, nothing to see here. Move on, lads.
I've been plenty brutal on Rishi, yet you seem to assume any dissenting voices on these issues must be trying to bolster him somehow. That is plainly not the case.
Your premise seems to be that a politician doing anything that is not 'man of the people' like will be toxic with the public.
Now, Rishi is very unpopular so people will judge him harshly for a lot of things they might not with someone more popular. But I think you do the public a disservice on this one. He also has bodyguards and people drive him about, is that also toxic with the public as it is not very man of the people?
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
And?
The helicopter was photographed flying over a MacDonalds which is the name of a former Labour PM, who didn't qualify for the Euros. Its another gaffe
Comments
My Mum is a lifelong Tory member, but we didn't talk politics. She is no fan of Nokes, mostly for Nokes skiving off the Commons for her affair. She will still vote Tory.
I am on the Island for the long weekend. No signs visible here in IoW East. Hard to believe Bet 365 have Tories 2/1 here, with such an older Brexity population, albeit often low income and not keen on sewage. If Lab gain here it is an ELE for the Tories. 2/1 Tory hold worth a punt IMO.
Says Richard Murphy, well known economic genius.
https://x.com/richardjmurphy/status/1794390622394032189?s=61
This won't either.
The Tories will poll over 30% on the day regardless of what Sunak does during the campaign .
Zzzzzzz
{wakes up}
So shall we have a betting pool on the probable Labour majority? I go for 70.
But Libertarians with a capital "L" as in active members or supporters of the Libertarian Party? Think you're (perhaps) off-base there, at least based on my own experience.
However, in USA both libertarians AND Libertarians are a quite diverse bunch, to put it mildly.
How about a bet?
The terms have been so devalued as to be meaningless and are now just perjoratives..
There is no doubt more of the brutality of the 20th century was caused by those who called themselves "Communist" than those who called "Fascist" or "Nazi" (and let's not forget the brutality of those who used neither term and called themselves "Freedom Fighters" for example) but if you're getting a bullet in the back of the head the political identity of the one pulling the trigger is immaterial.
As others have said, if you go far enough to the extremes you meet up and the 20th century shows inhumanity is a concept common to all those who travel far enough down the two political roads.
No one has said he is Hitler, but he does have some ideas from Apartheid era South Africa, which is fair enough bearing in mind he grew up in Apartheid era South Africa. I doubt he was ever a card carrying member of the ANC.
As to his business genius, he's a bit like Trump, a dreadful businessman who seems to attract investors. SpaceX, X (formerly known as Twitter) Tesla, the Cybertruck/Clusterf***. have all gone down some odd business roads on Musk's whim.
Except running the Post Office...
Swinson probably had more to be concerned about, but everyone seems to have forgotten about her. Cable likewise has nothing to be proud of, but is out of the firing line these days.
There was another Liberal Minister who actually won some rare praise from Bates for attempts to get to grips with the scandal, but his name escapes me, and in any case he was moved on before he could do much good.
Eg when the far left allies with the quasi fascist theocracy of islamism - which it does - what does “left” mean any more? Worse than nothing
The Conservative Party is a lobby group for well-to-do owner-occupiers of heavily overpriced houses, aged about 50 upwards. Given the parlous state to which it has been reduced, there's precious little point in doing anything other than trying to shore up this core vote - if they can. It's a tribute to how dreadful Sunak is at politics that he allowed Hunt to cut NI rather than income tax.
I think the more people that vote, the better, so I'd be happy to not have the limit on voting age if they reduced the age you could vote from.
Rishi Sunak
@RishiSunak
We all know that Labour doesn’t have a plan.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1794401291638104143
===
Several tweets follow this. It is utter meaningless drivel.
I am a huge sceptic of Tory Canada result, but I am beginning to wonder frankly...
Perhaps you should actually address my points? Do you think he is truthful, or do you think he is a liar?
I imagine that his next royalty cheque will be much larger than he'd been expecting!
He literally called one of the cave divers a paedophile. What is that if not thick?
My take on him is please focus on rockets, not being an edgelord. That seems a better use of his talents.
It's almost as if all his Ministers and MPs have said to him: You're on your own, mate.
Brexit goes down like a cup of cold sick there.
The best remaining hope is to scour the Labour manifesto line by line for any ammunition that can be used to scare rich old people back into the fold, but Starmer and Reeves aren't stupid. They're unlikely to make a "dementia tax" style gaffe.
Similarities include (short list)
> pioneer in innovative, indeed world-changing transportation technology
> politically morphed from reasonably-progressive circa 1912 into an an anti-Semitic, union-busting conservative
> for example, went from funding the anti-WW1 "Peace Ship" to promoting "Chronicles of the Elders of Zion".
Oh and I would also expect them to end the compulsion to remain in education until 18. After all why should the Government be forcing adults to stay in education against their will?
Likewise they will be losing Guildford and Winchester.
If anyone wants to bet with me, I will happily take a bet on the Tories losing Guildford, Winchester and Wimbledon.
Let me know, £10 for each.
The Conservatives are going to fight this.
An 80 year old might be predicted to die within the next parliamentary term, but they also might well make it to 100 for all we know, they would in fact still face some longer term consequences for their vote despite being so old. There seems no way to identify how old is too old. And what if the next election came before the scheduled end of term? Would they be restricted in voting at a GE but still be allowed at the next Locals as the possible term is less?
MVS advantages include
- it’s both FPTP and every system of proportional representation ever devised
- Personation is impossible
- Counting is instant
- Delivers the perfect result every time
- Strictly One Man, One Vote
- Devon and the rest of thf Southwest is proving very resilient based on @MarqueeMark casual interactions while leafletting. Disgust for Davey’s behaviour on the PO scandal in stark contrast to the faultless record of all Tory post office ministers since means that region is nailed on. That’s led him to make his confident prediction of Labour 1 short of a majority with Corbyn holding the balance of power
- We already know outer London is sticking Tory due to ULEZ and hatred of Khan
- Wales will punish the incumbents, who have infuriated the entire nation with their 20mph limits, meaning Labour will badly underperform
- All seats with large Hindu populations are secure
- The collapse of the SNP opens up opportunities in Scotland
Hung parliament.
I am not going to make a call yet but your post has convinced me more of the case.
(If it wasn't clear, some sarcasm here)
Holy shit. A guy just made a motion at the Libertarian National Convention for “Donald Trump to go f*ck himself” and the crowd all applauded. Trump is scheduled to speak tomorrow...
https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1794164051557454041
🚁 NEW 🚁 Flight logs appear to show Rishi Sunak used a Tory donor’s helicopter to travel from his Yorkshire home to campaign in South London this afternoon 👇
Which would indicate there isn't some grand principle about what we think it means to be a child or an adult, or where the balance lies in civic responsibility and age, but about perceived advantage.
Which is why most changes come in, but will make it more a political move than a principled one, even though I'm sure Keir and others so agree with the idea in principle as well.
Doesn't mean it won't cost the public money and means he can campaign more widely around the country?
I know most people disagree with me about not being bothered by the PM using helicopters generally, but I really don't get the issue if it is a donor for use as part of the campaign (so long as the cost is accounted for as part of campaign expenses).
Indeed, last week the Tories launched another staple of governing party election campaigns, a spending dossier laying out what it claimed were the costs of a big set of Labour policies, including costings carried out by Treasury officials on the basis of assumptions by special advisers
Labour disputes many of the assumptions in the dossier, and its rebuttal document is quite fun. But the relevance of that for now is that it is very hard to square “look at all of these Labour policies, here’s what they cost” with “Labour hasn’t got a plan”, because the entire attack relies on looking at Labour’s plans and assuming that they are actual plans. Which may help to explain why Jeremy Hunt’s speech launching the dossier does not include the argument that Labour has no plan.
https://dividinglines.substack.com/p/start-the-votes
Is this just folks misunderstanding the question OR the actual likely voting choices in their constituencies? OR something different, and much more problematic for the Tories?
My guess is some combination of the above. But what combo?
Yep, nothing to see here. Move on, lads.
However, it may well be an important issue in the north-east of Wales. That's where the greatest resentment seems to be stored up largely due to a botched implementation. It's also where a very large chunk of Labour – Tory marginals are.
The corruption allegations swirling around Vaughan Gethin may also not help.
At this point though, I should remind everyone that since 1918 nobody has got rich betting against Labour in Wales.
Right. Got it...
It's called misleading advertising, and in a sane country he would have been hauled over the coals for it.
Many of the other lies are important as well, for other reasons.
Your premise seems to be that a politician doing anything that is not 'man of the people' like will be toxic with the public.
Now, Rishi is very unpopular so people will judge him harshly for a lot of things they might not with someone more popular. But I think you do the public a disservice on this one. He also has bodyguards and people drive him about, is that also toxic with the public as it is not very man of the people?