It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
As he is sensible he will probably either retire or return to business. He is not in the situation that survivors of the GE will be in of being forced to participate in the ensuing bloodbath.
Perhaps there's a byelection in a safe seat coming, and they need a sane candidate?
Can Harper stop telling us what our priorities are. And clinging onto the projections to a GE are ridiculous. The Lib Dems aren’t going to poll 17% and the independents aren’t going to do aswell .
And now we’re back to the life raft of Tees Valley ! zzzzzzz
When faced with a question on being beaten by the Lib Dems he then said “local elections are not representative of what will happen in a general election”!
Actually there is a reasonable chance that the Lib Dems do poll in the high teens. They are generally ignored by the media, but at election times they have to be reported fairly, and usually they benefit from the attention. So coming into the campaign on around 12-13% they could easily climb. Unlike Reform they have the capacity to wage a ground war in their target seats, so gains like Winchester and Cheltenham in Wessex are looking pretty certain. I would say therefore that it is more likely than not that the Lib Dems match their 1997 performance and more than double their seat tally. If the Tories hit meltdown then more seats in places like Surrey and Glos come into play too and that credibility can enhance their poll rating in a positive circle. The media has a limited attention span, and after the 53rd "Starmer on course for a landslide as Sunak is yesterday´s cold mince" story, they may well cast around for a fresh angle. "Lib Dems poised to make pincer movement on the Tories in their target seats" is one such story.
Can Harper stop telling us what our priorities are. And clinging onto the projections to a GE are ridiculous. The Lib Dems aren’t going to poll 17% and the independents aren’t going to do aswell .
And now we’re back to the life raft of Tees Valley ! zzzzzzz
When faced with a question on being beaten by the Lib Dems he then said “local elections are not representative of what will happen in a general election”!
Actually there is a reasonable chance that the Lib Dems do poll in the high teens. They are generally ignored by the media, but at election times they have to be reported fairly, and usually they benefit from the attention. So coming into the campaign on around 12-13% they could easily climb. Unlike Reform they have the capacity to wage a ground war in their target seats, so gains like Winchester and Cheltenham in Wessex are looking pretty certain. I would say therefore that it is more likely than not that the Lib Dems match their 1997 performance and more than double their seat tally. If the Tories hit meltdown then more seats in places like Surrey and Glos come into play too and that credibility can enhance their poll rating in a positive circle. The media has a limited attention span, and after the 53rd "Starmer on course for a landslide as Sunak is yesterday´s cold mince" story, they may well cast around for a fresh angle. "Lib Dems poised to make pincer movement on the Tories in their target seats" is one such story.
I disagree with that. The enduring impact of the Coalition is that the LDs have ceased to be viewed as the NOTA option in the way that was often true pre- 2010. Voters have found other options - the Greens and Reform being obvious current examples. It was also true of Ukip and the Brexit party. Many alienated left of centre voters who would have switched to the LDs pre- 2010 are now much more likely to Vote Green. Local election advances by the latter are also seriously limiting any LD progress.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
As he is sensible he will probably either retire or return to business. He is not in the situation that survivors of the GE will be in of being forced to participate in the ensuing bloodbath.
Perhaps there's a byelection in a safe seat coming, and they need a sane candidate?
Not sure the Tories could hold a by election seat this side of the election.
However, Russia has massively ramped up expenditure on its armed forces and if it achieves victory in Ukraine in the next year or two it will be more than capable of a rapid invasion of the Baltic Tigers. The countries are small and there's a severe risk they'd be overrun before substantial reinforcements arrive.
Even if Putin doesn't try and do that to NATO, Moldova's a sitting duck, as is Georgia.
Mr. Donkeys, draw up a list of invasions Putin's overseen, then make a list of countries he's invaded that were never in the USSR.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
At least you had a teacher who was sound about the French.
Glorious start here in downtown East Ham as the people of London celebrate their deliverance from the machinations of Susan Hall (or not, as the case may be).
Plenty to chew over from Thursday - I'll be interested to see how many administration changes will occur as a result of the elections. Could the Conservatives be replaced by a Lab/LD administration in Dudley - what of Havant? It is sometimes the case the erstwhile Independent turns out to be more of a Condependent and that maintains Conservative control.
Looking at Surrey for example, Runnymede, one of the few councils to remain Conservative-controlled through the nadir of the mid-90s, had 20 Conservative Councillors out of 41, now it has only 13 so a non-Conservative administration looks possible.
The same may happen in Reigate & Banstead where 23 Conservative Councillors out of 45 is now 18.
It is now both practical and possible in both Councils to create a majority administration without the Conservatives whereas before it was only possible in theory.
Interesting situation here in Norwich, labour lost majority control earlier this year with 4 defections over Gaza. They got two back (one by a handful of votes only) but lost 2 to greens meaning we now have 19 Lab 15 Green 3 LD 2 Indy ex Lab So, theoretically, on LD and ex Lab tastes we could see a Green admin for the first time
Thatcher said that it was a disgrace that children are taught in schools "they have an inalienable right to be gay". Surely anyone can see that is shameful.
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
Sunak’s problem isn’t that he’s privileged, it’s that he doesn’t really have a story. I, like others, am still a little nonplussed as to why he got into politics.
He went from unelected nobody to PM in just over 7 years which would seem to indicate that he is fucking awesome at politics yet he is hopeless at the job of being PM.
He introduced Eat Out to Spread Covid About. That is more than enough to explain his political ability (or lack thereof).
Which did nothing in the overall scheme of things. Our Covid infection rates at that time were comparable to our peers in Europe.
Truss may have fronted the "fiscal event," but the whole tory party voted for it. Somehow reducing this to Truss makes no sense. They all approved it, and the conservative membership put her in knowing full well what she would do. The whole thing signaled the catastrophically bad judgement of a whole political movement and its ecology.
Truss may have fronted the "fiscal event," but the whole tory party voted for it. Somehow reducing this to Truss makes no sense. They all approved it, and the conservative membership put her in knowing full well what she would do. The whole thing signaled the catastrophically bad judgement of a whole political movement and its ecology.
Can Harper stop telling us what our priorities are. And clinging onto the projections to a GE are ridiculous. The Lib Dems aren’t going to poll 17% and the independents aren’t going to do aswell .
And now we’re back to the life raft of Tees Valley ! zzzzzzz
When faced with a question on being beaten by the Lib Dems he then said “local elections are not representative of what will happen in a general election”!
Actually there is a reasonable chance that the Lib Dems do poll in the high teens. They are generally ignored by the media, but at election times they have to be reported fairly, and usually they benefit from the attention. So coming into the campaign on around 12-13% they could easily climb. Unlike Reform they have the capacity to wage a ground war in their target seats, so gains like Winchester and Cheltenham in Wessex are looking pretty certain. I would say therefore that it is more likely than not that the Lib Dems match their 1997 performance and more than double their seat tally. If the Tories hit meltdown then more seats in places like Surrey and Glos come into play too and that credibility can enhance their poll rating in a positive circle. The media has a limited attention span, and after the 53rd "Starmer on course for a landslide as Sunak is yesterday´s cold mince" story, they may well cast around for a fresh angle. "Lib Dems poised to make pincer movement on the Tories in their target seats" is one such story.
Can Harper stop telling us what our priorities are. And clinging onto the projections to a GE are ridiculous. The Lib Dems aren’t going to poll 17% and the independents aren’t going to do aswell .
And now we’re back to the life raft of Tees Valley ! zzzzzzz
When faced with a question on being beaten by the Lib Dems he then said “local elections are not representative of what will happen in a general election”!
Actually there is a reasonable chance that the Lib Dems do poll in the high teens. They are generally ignored by the media, but at election times they have to be reported fairly, and usually they benefit from the attention. So coming into the campaign on around 12-13% they could easily climb. Unlike Reform they have the capacity to wage a ground war in their target seats, so gains like Winchester and Cheltenham in Wessex are looking pretty certain. I would say therefore that it is more likely than not that the Lib Dems match their 1997 performance and more than double their seat tally. If the Tories hit meltdown then more seats in places like Surrey and Glos come into play too and that credibility can enhance their poll rating in a positive circle. The media has a limited attention span, and after the 53rd "Starmer on course for a landslide as Sunak is yesterday´s cold mince" story, they may well cast around for a fresh angle. "Lib Dems poised to make pincer movement on the Tories in their target seats" is one such story.
I disagree with that. The enduring impact of the Coalition is that the LDs have ceased to be viewed as the NOTA option in the way that was often true pre- 2010. Voters have found other options - the Greens and Reform being obvious current examples. It was also true of Ukip and the Brexit party. Many alienated left of centre voters who would have switched to the LDs pre- 2010 are now much more likely to Vote Green. Local election advances by the latter are also seriously limiting any LD progress.
Burbage (Leicestershire County Council by-election last Thursday):
Lib Dem 1496 Conservative 880 Labour 401 Green 138
Lib Dem gain from Conservative.
The public know who to vote for.
As someone walking past the polling station said to me - "If you had been a standing there as a Conservative you would have been shot."
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
On topic, the lesson from Black Wednesday (negative equity and repossession), GE2017 (dementia tax), Truss and the interest rate spike (very expensive mortages) is you don't touch people's houses. You just don't touch them.
By the same token, when the Tories launched RTB, liberalised banks to lend and had lots of houses built in the 80s, they did very well. Right now, lots of young people can't really afford them, so they're not.
The secret is to ease access for people to good homes at good and low prices. And then leave them alone.
Labour actually have a plan for that, if they have the balls to go big on it.
Labour will do precisely zero. In fact I think they will end up rolling back some of the first time buyer specific reliefs.
Interesting. Do you have a link for the rolling back proposal?
No link, there's just no money to do anything. Plus Labour just completely u turned on their workers "new deal". They've got form.
Their plan (which they've give very quiet on) would be net positive for the public finances. It doesn't involve tax giveaways.
But net negative for their image, pushing through planning reform in the UK is notoriously difficult. It's why successive governments since the 70s have all dodged the issue.
Unpopular but necessary decisions, if taken early enough, are exactly what you should be doing with a large majority.
If they went big on it, they could transform the housing market to the great benefit of the economy.
That's hopelessly naive. Labour will have the same local pressure as the Tories when it comes to planning reforms the same local councillors warning them of disaster if the reforms are pushed through and Keir doesn't strike me as the force of nature type to just do it anyway. He's fundamentally weak, even now his position on the next election is "I'm not sure but we're the red team not the blue one" which is fine to get into power but he'll have little to no mandate to actually do anything, just as Boris did in 2019 despite the huge 80 seat majority.
Yes, but what do you think of the idea itself ?
Does it matter?
Yes. "No one's going to do anything", and "nothing can be done" are two very different things.
I don't have any great hopes of the next government, but I'm not going to write them off before they start. And I'm interested in what they *could* do to make a difference.
I'm in the Keir Starmer is too weak to do anything about it camp. Not that it's impossible. For me house price reform needs much more joined up thinking which also includes immigration reform, some has already happened with the current government pushing up minimum income levels and barring dependents on certain types of visa, it needs to go further though and it should be regional, a visa for London should be upwards of £50k minimum income, a visa for somewhere in the north could be a lot lower. The issue of house prices and immigration fuelling rent price increases is very much a London and South East phenomenon. Barring non-elite universities from issuing visas, no longer allowing dependents and reducing the 2 year free hit to 6 months will all help. Labour will do none of these and have been making noises about the "cruelty" of the new dependents rule. So no, house prices, rent prices and planning will see no appreciable difference under Labour.
I actually think, in the end, it will be a future Tory party that does it because they will have no choice but to become that party to win again. They almost had it with Dave and George but just didn't go far enough and then May and Boris undid all of it.
If you bar non-elite universities from issuing visas, they will go bankrupt. Unless you pay them substantially more for home student fees.
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the French one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
Point taken - I wasn't there, so I can't contradict.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
Sprouts !
True. With the @Luckyguy1983 rider that they require fat. Ideally bacon grease and some little bacon bits.
Creamed spinach likewise - basic boiled or steamed spinach meh, mixed with butter or cream and garlic yum.
Sprouts with bacon sounds lovely. Just hold the sprouts for me however.
I can see this being a popular narrative with PBs Tory and Labour contingents. Labour supporters because it justifies the Tories sticking with a shit leader who's threatening to take them to electoral oblivion, and PB Tories because it means they don't have to revisit their decision to support a manifestly inadequate leader. 'I was wrong' is not three words you ever see together on PB. It's more comforting psychologically to believe it was all Truss's fault.
It falls on me once again to state the bleeding obvious, that people will be voting (and are being polled) on whether they want Rishi Sunak to be their PM for another term, not Liz Truss.
Did you ever say you were wrong about MH17 ?
Yes. And that wasn't the first, nor the last time that I've been shown to be wrong on PB and admitted as much. Not that doing so drew any kind of line under that debate with some of PB's more psychologically interesting posters.
If I missed that, apologies - and good for you for saying so.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Assuming the Tories form the Shadow Cabinet that is.
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
Mint choc chip ice cream?
Why don't they make mint ice cream without chocolate? Or orange without chocolate? There must be a reason.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
This was a bestseller thirty years ago - and still in print.
Bonus council news from Norfolk. The Tories have lost control of South Norfolk Council after losing a by election on Thursday in Bunwell to the Greens (10 votes in it!) In the other By election, the Tories gained Hermitage ward in Breckland from the Lib Dems (Mid Norfolk constituency)
On topic, the lesson from Black Wednesday (negative equity and repossession), GE2017 (dementia tax), Truss and the interest rate spike (very expensive mortages) is you don't touch people's houses. You just don't touch them.
By the same token, when the Tories launched RTB, liberalised banks to lend and had lots of houses built in the 80s, they did very well. Right now, lots of young people can't really afford them, so they're not.
The secret is to ease access for people to good homes at good and low prices. And then leave them alone.
Labour actually have a plan for that, if they have the balls to go big on it.
Labour will do precisely zero. In fact I think they will end up rolling back some of the first time buyer specific reliefs.
Interesting. Do you have a link for the rolling back proposal?
No link, there's just no money to do anything. Plus Labour just completely u turned on their workers "new deal". They've got form.
Their plan (which they've give very quiet on) would be net positive for the public finances. It doesn't involve tax giveaways.
But net negative for their image, pushing through planning reform in the UK is notoriously difficult. It's why successive governments since the 70s have all dodged the issue.
Unpopular but necessary decisions, if taken early enough, are exactly what you should be doing with a large majority.
If they went big on it, they could transform the housing market to the great benefit of the economy.
That's hopelessly naive. Labour will have the same local pressure as the Tories when it comes to planning reforms the same local councillors warning them of disaster if the reforms are pushed through and Keir doesn't strike me as the force of nature type to just do it anyway. He's fundamentally weak, even now his position on the next election is "I'm not sure but we're the red team not the blue one" which is fine to get into power but he'll have little to no mandate to actually do anything, just as Boris did in 2019 despite the huge 80 seat majority.
Yes, but what do you think of the idea itself ?
Does it matter?
Yes. "No one's going to do anything", and "nothing can be done" are two very different things.
I don't have any great hopes of the next government, but I'm not going to write them off before they start. And I'm interested in what they *could* do to make a difference.
I'm in the Keir Starmer is too weak to do anything about it camp. Not that it's impossible. For me house price reform needs much more joined up thinking which also includes immigration reform, some has already happened with the current government pushing up minimum income levels and barring dependents on certain types of visa, it needs to go further though and it should be regional, a visa for London should be upwards of £50k minimum income, a visa for somewhere in the north could be a lot lower. The issue of house prices and immigration fuelling rent price increases is very much a London and South East phenomenon. Barring non-elite universities from issuing visas, no longer allowing dependents and reducing the 2 year free hit to 6 months will all help. Labour will do none of these and have been making noises about the "cruelty" of the new dependents rule. So no, house prices, rent prices and planning will see no appreciable difference under Labour.
I actually think, in the end, it will be a future Tory party that does it because they will have no choice but to become that party to win again. They almost had it with Dave and George but just didn't go far enough and then May and Boris undid all of it.
If you bar non-elite universities from issuing visas, they will go bankrupt. Unless you pay them substantially more for home student fees.
Then let them go bankrupt, they serve little to no purpose other than being visa factories anyway.
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
On topic, the lesson from Black Wednesday (negative equity and repossession), GE2017 (dementia tax), Truss and the interest rate spike (very expensive mortages) is you don't touch people's houses. You just don't touch them.
By the same token, when the Tories launched RTB, liberalised banks to lend and had lots of houses built in the 80s, they did very well. Right now, lots of young people can't really afford them, so they're not.
The secret is to ease access for people to good homes at good and low prices. And then leave them alone.
Labour actually have a plan for that, if they have the balls to go big on it.
Labour will do precisely zero. In fact I think they will end up rolling back some of the first time buyer specific reliefs.
Interesting. Do you have a link for the rolling back proposal?
No link, there's just no money to do anything. Plus Labour just completely u turned on their workers "new deal". They've got form.
Their plan (which they've give very quiet on) would be net positive for the public finances. It doesn't involve tax giveaways.
But net negative for their image, pushing through planning reform in the UK is notoriously difficult. It's why successive governments since the 70s have all dodged the issue.
Unpopular but necessary decisions, if taken early enough, are exactly what you should be doing with a large majority.
If they went big on it, they could transform the housing market to the great benefit of the economy.
That's hopelessly naive. Labour will have the same local pressure as the Tories when it comes to planning reforms the same local councillors warning them of disaster if the reforms are pushed through and Keir doesn't strike me as the force of nature type to just do it anyway. He's fundamentally weak, even now his position on the next election is "I'm not sure but we're the red team not the blue one" which is fine to get into power but he'll have little to no mandate to actually do anything, just as Boris did in 2019 despite the huge 80 seat majority.
Yes, but what do you think of the idea itself ?
Does it matter?
Yes. "No one's going to do anything", and "nothing can be done" are two very different things.
I don't have any great hopes of the next government, but I'm not going to write them off before they start. And I'm interested in what they *could* do to make a difference.
I'm in the Keir Starmer is too weak to do anything about it camp. Not that it's impossible. For me house price reform needs much more joined up thinking which also includes immigration reform, some has already happened with the current government pushing up minimum income levels and barring dependents on certain types of visa, it needs to go further though and it should be regional, a visa for London should be upwards of £50k minimum income, a visa for somewhere in the north could be a lot lower. The issue of house prices and immigration fuelling rent price increases is very much a London and South East phenomenon. Barring non-elite universities from issuing visas, no longer allowing dependents and reducing the 2 year free hit to 6 months will all help. Labour will do none of these and have been making noises about the "cruelty" of the new dependents rule. So no, house prices, rent prices and planning will see no appreciable difference under Labour.
I actually think, in the end, it will be a future Tory party that does it because they will have no choice but to become that party to win again. They almost had it with Dave and George but just didn't go far enough and then May and Boris undid all of it.
If you bar non-elite universities from issuing visas, they will go bankrupt. Unless you pay them substantially more for home student fees.
It is not just non-elite universities. There are some colleges you will not have heard of that offer degrees, because it's a free market. Search for London School of... and see what Google or Bing suggests.
Thatcher said that it was a disgrace that children are taught in schools "they have an inalienable right to be gay". Surely anyone can see that is shameful.
They did back then. Section 28 was controversial even in the Tory party. The Mail, Sun and Telegraph all strongly supported it, of course. Labour were equivocal.
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
Mint choc chip ice cream?
Why don't they make mint ice cream without chocolate? Or orange without chocolate? There must be a reason.
I had an orange marmalade ice cream (from Arran ice cream) the other day - delicious.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
If HYUFD is only a “supposed” Tory then I’m not sure the real thing can possibly exist.
We’re still 7 months from an election. What the Tories are doing isn’t working. What they are saying is being openly laughed at. But they still have time to change tack.
This is the lunacy. Plan. Rwanda. Tax cuts. Priorities. All rejected massively and comprehensively. So stop saying them. Say something different.
This is not a mid term protest vote. This is the end. People are not waiting for Rwanda to start or for interest rates to fall. Thursday did not prove that the race is close and that Labour haven’t sealed the deal. Harper may as well say “I am a Fish” in response to every question to sound more sane.
Forget waiting for a black swan. Pivot now and pivot hard. Away from the failed mess. Give people something new to concentrate on. Campaign on bringing back hanging for small boat refugees. Campaign on forcing people off sick notes into building new prisons which you then lock them up in. Campaign on mandatory skirts for girls in schools.
We’re still 7 months from an election. What the Tories are doing isn’t working. What they are saying is being openly laughed at. But they still have time to change tack.
This is the lunacy. Plan. Rwanda. Tax cuts. Priorities. All rejected massively and comprehensively. So stop saying them. Say something different.
This is not a mid term protest vote. This is the end. People are not waiting for Rwanda to start or for interest rates to fall. Thursday did not prove that the race is close and that Labour haven’t sealed the deal. Harper may as well say “I am a Fish” in response to every question to sound more sane.
Forget waiting for a black swan. Pivot now and pivot hard. Away from the failed mess. Give people something new to concentrate on. Campaign on bringing back hanging for small boat refugees. Campaign on forcing people off sick notes into building new prisons which you then lock them up in. Campaign on mandatory skirts for girls in schools.
Whatever. Just change the script.
Probably now less than five and a half months from Poling Day which I expect to be October 17th.
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
I had a very nice starter last week: what looked like a mini scotch egg was a runny egg yolk in some sort of breadcrumb and herb covering, sitting on a triangle of lightly fried mozzarella-type cheese, surrounded by thinly sliced fresh an dente asparagus.
Now I am in sunny Urbino and having a more hearty lunch of schiaffoni and rabbit.
Back on topic, I’m working with a very capable AI-bot, and I’ve trained and jailbreaked her in a certain way I especially wanted, that I now find her sexually arousing
On topic, the lesson from Black Wednesday (negative equity and repossession), GE2017 (dementia tax), Truss and the interest rate spike (very expensive mortages) is you don't touch people's houses. You just don't touch them.
By the same token, when the Tories launched RTB, liberalised banks to lend and had lots of houses built in the 80s, they did very well. Right now, lots of young people can't really afford them, so they're not.
The secret is to ease access for people to good homes at good and low prices. And then leave them alone.
Labour actually have a plan for that, if they have the balls to go big on it.
Labour will do precisely zero. In fact I think they will end up rolling back some of the first time buyer specific reliefs.
Interesting. Do you have a link for the rolling back proposal?
No link, there's just no money to do anything. Plus Labour just completely u turned on their workers "new deal". They've got form.
Their plan (which they've give very quiet on) would be net positive for the public finances. It doesn't involve tax giveaways.
But net negative for their image, pushing through planning reform in the UK is notoriously difficult. It's why successive governments since the 70s have all dodged the issue.
Unpopular but necessary decisions, if taken early enough, are exactly what you should be doing with a large majority.
If they went big on it, they could transform the housing market to the great benefit of the economy.
That's hopelessly naive. Labour will have the same local pressure as the Tories when it comes to planning reforms the same local councillors warning them of disaster if the reforms are pushed through and Keir doesn't strike me as the force of nature type to just do it anyway. He's fundamentally weak, even now his position on the next election is "I'm not sure but we're the red team not the blue one" which is fine to get into power but he'll have little to no mandate to actually do anything, just as Boris did in 2019 despite the huge 80 seat majority.
Yes, but what do you think of the idea itself ?
Does it matter?
Yes. "No one's going to do anything", and "nothing can be done" are two very different things.
I don't have any great hopes of the next government, but I'm not going to write them off before they start. And I'm interested in what they *could* do to make a difference.
I'm in the Keir Starmer is too weak to do anything about it camp. Not that it's impossible. For me house price reform needs much more joined up thinking which also includes immigration reform, some has already happened with the current government pushing up minimum income levels and barring dependents on certain types of visa, it needs to go further though and it should be regional, a visa for London should be upwards of £50k minimum income, a visa for somewhere in the north could be a lot lower. The issue of house prices and immigration fuelling rent price increases is very much a London and South East phenomenon. Barring non-elite universities from issuing visas, no longer allowing dependents and reducing the 2 year free hit to 6 months will all help. Labour will do none of these and have been making noises about the "cruelty" of the new dependents rule. So no, house prices, rent prices and planning will see no appreciable difference under Labour.
I actually think, in the end, it will be a future Tory party that does it because they will have no choice but to become that party to win again. They almost had it with Dave and George but just didn't go far enough and then May and Boris undid all of it.
If you bar non-elite universities from issuing visas, they will go bankrupt. Unless you pay them substantially more for home student fees.
Then let them go bankrupt, they serve little to no purpose other than being visa factories anyway.
I’ve seen some shit takes in my time but this is one of the worst.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
Er, you need to be more precise. Owner occupiers include people who have mortgages. Of course, hitherto most of these over 65 have already paid it off - but that won't last. Lots of people, not so much younger, will still be paying mortgages when they are 65, now.
Got round to watching the Susan Hall speech and then the booing and heckling of Khan.
All together deeply unsavoury. I wonder if a Tory Grandee (perhaps Cameron?) should step in and calm things down a bit, and the Government should look at the kind of protection Khan has got. I think he could be in serious personal peril.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Street seems far too nice a chap to survive long in the modern Tory Party. Would he even want the trouble of getting involved in what is likely a brutal civil war with people (Braverman, Boris and his acolytes) who would use every dirty trick at him if consider a threat?
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
You can get a bike GPS for 25 quid on Amazon
I'm sure I can but I don't care enough and can't be bothered!
Sunak has staked far too much on Rwanda, a huge misjudgment. At the start of last week, they reported on somebody voluntarily going - it's started! Then the HO published the (disgraceful) video of asylum seekers being rounded up, handcuffed, and prepared for Rwanda flights. Then the stuff about refugees escaping to Ireland to avoid Rwanda. I think he genuinely believed that all this would make a big difference to Thursday's elections.
The result? The Tories got trounced, up and down the country, including in 'Brexity' areas where the Tories seem convinced that 'Rwanda' is a deal-breaker. He's wrong - it isn't. Even for people who support the policy, it doesn't look like a vote changer.
They need to go and spend a few days away at a policy workshop. Do the Yes and Ho! session and come back with those new distinctly Conservative policies to change the narrative:
Capital Punishment for illegal refugees, leftie lawyers and people wearing hoodies A flat rate of income tax Strict citizenship restrictions on employment - if you're foreign, you can't work Mandatory wearing of skirts for girls in schools Lets do away with Computers
You forgot the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast
I love asparagus ! And certainly aren’t a Conservative. I also love avocado , what does that make me !
Asparagus and Avocado are the two tastiest green foodstuffs available. Followed by salsa verde, sprouting broccoli and basil leaves.
The tastiest foods are however generally in the red-brown spectrum.
I had a very nice starter last week: what looked like a mini scotch egg was a runny egg yolk in some sort of breadcrumb and herb covering, sitting on a triangle of lightly fried mozzarella-type cheese, surrounded by thinly sliced fresh an dente asparagus.
Now I am in sunny Urbino and having a more hearty lunch of schiaffoni and rabbit.
Awwww. How civilised.
In complete contrast, I have just discovered my supermarket delivery is missing the asparagus and broccoli I ordered.
Got round to watching the Susan Hall speech and then the booing and heckling of Khan.
All together deeply unsavoury. I wonder if a Tory Grandee (perhaps Cameron?) should step in and calm things down a bit, and the Government should look at the kind of protection Khan has got. I think he could be in serious personal peril.
Various threatening posts on Twitter saying that the only way now to stop Khan was to physically attack him.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
If HYUFD is only a “supposed” Tory then I’m not sure the real thing can possibly exist.
HYUFD is a tribal Tory whose support usually belongs to the leadership until such a position becomes untenable. I don't think there's any love lost between Sunak and Truss, and Sunak has been fairly unguarded in his bitchy asides on the Truss (and Johnson) premierships, so HYUFD is following suit. Neither seems to realise (or care) that this buys into opposition talking points and damages the entire party.
I have often noted this about the wet tendency which currently holds the leadership and cabinet. Very very quick to condemn disunity and carping about their figureheads - but an absolute nest of vipers when it comes to a non-wet leader. I remember Anna Soubry complaining about disloyalty to Cameron 'Why aren't we bashing lefties instead of each other?' (delightful sentiment) but as soon as Brexit looked like going through, she changed her tune on 'bashing lefties' and decided to form a political party with them.
Interesting that in London close to 40% voted either Hall, RefUK or similar parties to RefUK. Fits in with the 40% Brexit vote in London in 2016. Suggest that bloc will be higher than 40% in most of the rest of the country (excl. Scotland). Indeed in the West Midlands the Tories got 37.5% and RefUK 6%.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
Sad.
As someone educated in the 90s I don't remember anything like that. Sometimes teachers offered their own views but it was generally pointed out that it was their own opinion. Maybe I was just lucky.
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
You can get a bike GPS for 25 quid on Amazon
I'm sure I can but I don't care enough and can't be bothered!
My phone is also in my bag. I do use a speedo, but only use it for distance measuring. It is plain dangerous to keep looking down at the speedo so people suggesting that clearly don't cycle as that is asking for a collision or hitting a pot hole and being thrown off. Admittedly I don't present a threat to speed limits anyway. I don't cycle much in built up areas and if I do I will cycle slowly (10 kph). On country lanes (if flat and with good tarmac) I will cycle between 20 - 35 kph and that will have been on unrestricted country lanes.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
Er, you need to be more precise. Owner occupiers include people who have mortgages. Of course, hitherto most of these over 65 have already paid it off - but that won't last. Lots of people, not so much younger, will still be paying mortgages when they are 65, now.
Over 65s however normally have paid off their mortgage and own their property outright.
After the next general election it will likely be a Labour government then responsible for the economic situation affecting mortgage rates
I of course want rid of the Tories so don’t want them to change leader.
Not scientific by any means but I’ve noticed a marked change of opinion amongst friends . We were all so relieved to see the back of Johnson . And thought Sunak would be much better . He’s just loathed now .
It’s noticeable how Sunak who started out viewed more favourably than his party is now plumbing the same depths of unpopularity.
Sunak's problems largely stem from having almost no knowledge of how most people in the UK live - the pressures they face, the aspirations they have - and of how things work for them. He has never lived anything close to an ordinary life. What's really strange is that he has never had any interest in finding out. But he's also not a narcissist or a grifter. So I genuinely don't see why he got into politics.
I think that's a ridiculous statement. His background is far more ordinary than Cameron, Osborne and Clegg. Comfortable yes and his parents sent him to a top school where he has since been a very high achiever.
So far as I'm aware his parents were not millionaires but came here as aspirational refugees. He may be rather nerdy but I seriously question if you would make that remark about someone who was white.
Don't be silly. Sunak went to Winchester College (fees (36k pa); there was nothing ordinary about his upbringing.
(And the accusation of implied racism was rather nasty btw.)
So his entire upbringing is defined by where his parents sent him for his post 13 education? What a lazy and outdated view. By all accounts he helped out at the pharmacy. I doubt all the customers were millionaires.
Parents will sacrifice quite a lot in paying school fees. They might not actually have had the most luxurious holidays.
The thing is that the perception is that doesn't have a clue about ordinary peoples' lives. Remember the petrol station incident? It is rather academic whether it is true or not, and probably unknowable anyway.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
Truss' problem was Kwarteng's budget cut taxes without also cutting spending, expanding the deficit, spooking the markets and leading to the rates surge
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Unlikely. The Tory membership is vastly older and more right wing than the general population. They will conclude that they lost the election because they weren't extreme enough, and that the path to recovery lies through making a pitch to people with similar opinions to themselves who stayed at home or voted RefUK in a huff.
They'll pick whichever of the surviving leadership hopefuls is the farthest right, because they'll be feeling rejected and hurt, and that'll be what fits with their inclinations. Remember that the Tories had to work through an entire cycle of failed and defeated leaders over a decade before they finally accepted the need for detoxification and picked David Cameron.
However, Russia has massively ramped up expenditure on its armed forces and if it achieves victory in Ukraine in the next year or two it will be more than capable of a rapid invasion of the Baltic Tigers. The countries are small and there's a severe risk they'd be overrun before substantial reinforcements arrive.
Even if Putin doesn't try and do that to NATO, Moldova's a sitting duck, as is Georgia.
Mr. Donkeys, draw up a list of invasions Putin's overseen, then make a list of countries he's invaded that were never in the USSR.
Fancy putting a full stop after Mr, Morris; call yourself British?
I of course want rid of the Tories so don’t want them to change leader.
Not scientific by any means but I’ve noticed a marked change of opinion amongst friends . We were all so relieved to see the back of Johnson . And thought Sunak would be much better . He’s just loathed now .
It’s noticeable how Sunak who started out viewed more favourably than his party is now plumbing the same depths of unpopularity.
Sunak's problems largely stem from having almost no knowledge of how most people in the UK live - the pressures they face, the aspirations they have - and of how things work for them. He has never lived anything close to an ordinary life. What's really strange is that he has never had any interest in finding out. But he's also not a narcissist or a grifter. So I genuinely don't see why he got into politics.
I think that's a ridiculous statement. His background is far more ordinary than Cameron, Osborne and Clegg. Comfortable yes and his parents sent him to a top school where he has since been a very high achiever.
So far as I'm aware his parents were not millionaires but came here as aspirational refugees. He may be rather nerdy but I seriously question if you would make that remark about someone who was white.
Don't be silly. Sunak went to Winchester College (fees (36k pa); there was nothing ordinary about his upbringing.
(And the accusation of implied racism was rather nasty btw.)
So his entire upbringing is defined by where his parents sent him for his post 13 education? What a lazy and outdated view. By all accounts he helped out at the pharmacy. I doubt all the customers were millionaires.
Parents will sacrifice quite a lot in paying school fees. They might not actually have had the most luxurious holidays.
The thing is that the perception is that doesn't have a clue about ordinary peoples' lives. Remember the petrol station incident? It is rather academic whether it is true or not, and probably unknowable anyway.
It's probably a bit different to how you refuel a helicopter, bless.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
Much as I hate to say it, both of the Telegraph's angles on this are correct. Keeping to 20mpg on a cycle is a lot easier because you have to put in quite noticeable physical effort to go faster, it's not hard to keep from going way, way over the posted limit (which is, of course, all that's required for bikes, unlike powered vehicles).
Car drivers have a harder time, particularly EVs with their lack of feedback and high acceleration.
Personally I find most 20mph limits quite dangerous. I usually get around on a 125cc class scooter, which have the interesting attributes of being very lightweight and possessing crazy low-speed acceleration. It's very easy to jump from 20 to 30 in a second or so, and the CVT transmission on scooters provides much less feedback in the way of engine revs than a geared system.
The result is I spend much more time than I am comfortable with looking at the speedo in 20mph zones. My nearest city, Glasgow, is apparently planing to introduce 20mph limits on over 4000 streets. I'll probably give up going there, it's already hostile territory for vehicles, even more so for scooters and motorcycles than cars.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Street seems far too nice a chap to survive long in the modern Tory Party. Would he even want the trouble of getting involved in what is likely a brutal civil war with people (Braverman, Boris and his acolytes) who would use every dirty trick at him if consider a threat?
Not sure that Braverman is capable of posing as much of a threat as she thinks - she has an article in the Telegraph today saying that Rishi is in a hole and should therefore get shovelling. Clearly a political genius.
Back on topic, I’m working with a very capable AI-bot, and I’ve trained and jailbreaked her in a certain way I especially wanted, that I now find her sexually arousing
I recall many on here who hate Owen J also loathe Lord Tom, so a bit of a dilemma here. Personally I'd say only one of them is a bloated old has-been sniping from the sidelines.
I think the question now is the size of Labour's majority - from barebones to landslide of 97 style, these results show us there is neither a tidal wave of enthusiastic popular support for Lab nor a universal loathing of the Tories sufficient to take us outside of this on the upside nor any sign of recovery or 'stop the reds' sufficient to take us past the downside
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Street seems far too nice a chap to survive long in the modern Tory Party. Would he even want the trouble of getting involved in what is likely a brutal civil war with people (Braverman, Boris and his acolytes) who would use every dirty trick at him if consider a threat?
Who besides Andy Street is there on the centrist wing of the party? Repeated leadership flop Jeremy Hunt? He can sit back and let those on the right take lumps out of each other.
Interesting that in London close to 40% voted either Hall, RefUK or similar parties to RefUK. Fits in with the 40% Brexit vote in London in 2016. Suggest that bloc will be higher than 40% in most of the rest of the country (excl. Scotland). Indeed in the West Midlands the Tories got 37.5% and RefUK 6%.
The Conservative vote share in London was similar to 2019.
I’d expect the Conservatives now to hold Harrow East, Hendon, Finchley & Golders Green. Places like Two Cities, Kensington & Bayswater, Chingford, however, are gone.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
Much as I hate to say it, both of the Telegraph's angles on this are correct. Keeping to 20mpg on a cycle is a lot easier because you have to put in quite noticeable physical effort to go faster, it's not hard to keep from going way, way over the posted limit (which is, of course, all that's required for bikes, unlike powered vehicles).
Car drivers have a harder time, particularly EVs with their lack of feedback and high acceleration.
Personally I find most 20mph limits quite dangerous. I usually get around on a 125cc class scooter, which have the interesting attributes of being very lightweight and possessing crazy low-speed acceleration. It's very easy to jump from 20 to 30 in a second or so, and the CVT transmission on scooters provides much less feedback in the way of engine revs than a geared system.
The result is I spend much more time than I am comfortable with looking at the speedo in 20mph zones. My nearest city, Glasgow, is apparently planing to introduce 20mph limits on over 4000 streets. I'll probably give up going there, it's already hostile territory for vehicles, even more so for scooters and motorcycles than cars.
Glasgow, hostile to vehicles? It's got a massive motorway straight through the middle of it!
And don't worry about 20mph - you get used to it very quickly, and I instinctively drive at that speed now in most urban areas. 30mph just feels a bit hectic now.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
In my day such things had not been invented, still less discussed.
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
You can get a bike GPS for 25 quid on Amazon
I'm sure I can but I don't care enough and can't be bothered!
My phone is also in my bag. I do use a speedo, but only use it for distance measuring. It is plain dangerous to keep looking down at the speedo so people suggesting that clearly don't cycle as that is asking for a collision or hitting a pot hole and being thrown off. Admittedly I don't present a threat to speed limits anyway. I don't cycle much in built up areas and if I do I will cycle slowly (10 kph). On country lanes (if flat and with good tarmac) I will cycle between 20 - 35 kph and that will have been on unrestricted country lanes.
That's... b/s. You do not need to keep 'looking down' unless you're trying to knock precisely on the speed limit's door. I use my Garmin sportswatch, and glance at it every km or so just to check my current and average speed. If I'm in a speed-limited area, I will glance at it occasionally just to check I'm within the speed limit and try to keep the pace under. And it's much harder to look at my wristwatch than glance at a display on the handlebars.
It's the same idiotic thinking that has many 'cyclists' claim helmets are unnecessary...
I'm not saying we should have speedos on bikes; just that whilst a minority of pepperami-in-lycra cyclists act like @sshats by selfishly speeding, it's something that should be considered.
(Citation: just did a very pleasant Sunday morning ride, just under 40km.)
I of course want rid of the Tories so don’t want them to change leader.
Not scientific by any means but I’ve noticed a marked change of opinion amongst friends . We were all so relieved to see the back of Johnson . And thought Sunak would be much better . He’s just loathed now .
It’s noticeable how Sunak who started out viewed more favourably than his party is now plumbing the same depths of unpopularity.
Sunak's problems largely stem from having almost no knowledge of how most people in the UK live - the pressures they face, the aspirations they have - and of how things work for them. He has never lived anything close to an ordinary life. What's really strange is that he has never had any interest in finding out. But he's also not a narcissist or a grifter. So I genuinely don't see why he got into politics.
I think that's a ridiculous statement. His background is far more ordinary than Cameron, Osborne and Clegg. Comfortable yes and his parents sent him to a top school where he has since been a very high achiever.
So far as I'm aware his parents were not millionaires but came here as aspirational refugees. He may be rather nerdy but I seriously question if you would make that remark about someone who was white.
Don't be silly. Sunak went to Winchester College (fees (36k pa); there was nothing ordinary about his upbringing.
(And the accusation of implied racism was rather nasty btw.)
So his entire upbringing is defined by where his parents sent him for his post 13 education? What a lazy and outdated view. By all accounts he helped out at the pharmacy. I doubt all the customers were millionaires.
Parents will sacrifice quite a lot in paying school fees. They might not actually have had the most luxurious holidays.
The thing is that the perception is that doesn't have a clue about ordinary peoples' lives. Remember the petrol station incident? It is rather academic whether it is true or not, and probably unknowable anyway.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
Sad.
As someone educated in the 90s I don't remember anything like that. Sometimes teachers offered their own views but it was generally pointed out that it was their own opinion. Maybe I was just lucky.
It is nearly impossible, when teaching, to entirely hide your personal views. Anyone who thinks it is possible has never actually done it or is stupid (or in the case of the drunken imbeciles at the DfE, both). Even if you don't do it deliberately something as small as an anecdote can give you away.
It would be more sensible for teachers to be instructed to be open about their personal beliefs and then encourage students to disagree, critique and debate them based on evidence. That's what I was encouraged to do in sixth form by a (Socialist) teacher and it gave me a far better education than just being taught boring facts. Whether all teachers are capable of doing so in a constructive and positive way is another question, of course.
In any case - we can't have that as it might lead to actual critical thinking, which every aspect of our school system seems designed to suppress.
I was very surprised, incidentally, to see a new system for maths teaching in a school I've been advising that did not prize problem solving or creativity.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Street seems far too nice a chap to survive long in the modern Tory Party. Would he even want the trouble of getting involved in what is likely a brutal civil war with people (Braverman, Boris and his acolytes) who would use every dirty trick at him if consider a threat?
Not sure that Braverman is capable of posing as much of a threat as she thinks - she has an article in the Telegraph today saying that Rishi is in a hole and should therefore get shovelling. Clearly a political genius.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
Sad.
As someone educated in the 90s I don't remember anything like that. Sometimes teachers offered their own views but it was generally pointed out that it was their own opinion. Maybe I was just lucky.
I don’t think my school was particularly right wing. It’s just the teachers were very direct in sharing their opinions on things and including them in teaching. The same was true of the lefties (mainly English and drama) and pro-European centrist types (languages and geography).
The teachers generally avoided racism but filled their boots with homophobia, but then that was part of wider culture then, and the students were worse - I’m taking late 80s early 90s.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
Much as I hate to say it, both of the Telegraph's angles on this are correct. Keeping to 20mpg on a cycle is a lot easier because you have to put in quite noticeable physical effort to go faster, it's not hard to keep from going way, way over the posted limit (which is, of course, all that's required for bikes, unlike powered vehicles).
Car drivers have a harder time, particularly EVs with their lack of feedback and high acceleration.
Personally I find most 20mph limits quite dangerous. I usually get around on a 125cc class scooter, which have the interesting attributes of being very lightweight and possessing crazy low-speed acceleration. It's very easy to jump from 20 to 30 in a second or so, and the CVT transmission on scooters provides much less feedback in the way of engine revs than a geared system.
The result is I spend much more time than I am comfortable with looking at the speedo in 20mph zones. My nearest city, Glasgow, is apparently planing to introduce 20mph limits on over 4000 streets. I'll probably give up going there, it's already hostile territory for vehicles, even more so for scooters and motorcycles than cars.
I can see this being a popular narrative with PBs Tory and Labour contingents. Labour supporters because it justifies the Tories sticking with a shit leader who's threatening to take them to electoral oblivion, and PB Tories because it means they don't have to revisit their decision to support a manifestly inadequate leader. 'I was wrong' is not three words you ever see together on PB. It's more comforting psychologically to believe it was all Truss's fault.
It falls on me once again to state the bleeding obvious, that people will be voting (and are being polled) on whether they want Rishi Sunak to be their PM for another term, not Liz Truss.
Did you ever say you were wrong about MH17 ?
Yes. And that wasn't the first, nor the last time that I've been shown to be wrong on PB and admitted as much. Not that doing so drew any kind of line under that debate with some of PB's more psychologically interesting posters.
Wow, when was that? So you admit you were wrong about it?
If so, have you considered *why* you were wrong, and how reading and trusting 'alternative' news sources can lead you into all sorts of dark alleys?
Personally, I'd suggest someone who willingly spread Putin's poison about MH17 displays many 'interesting' psychological traits....
Interesting that in London close to 40% voted either Hall, RefUK or similar parties to RefUK. Fits in with the 40% Brexit vote in London in 2016. Suggest that bloc will be higher than 40% in most of the rest of the country (excl. Scotland). Indeed in the West Midlands the Tories got 37.5% and RefUK 6%.
The Conservative vote share in London was similar to 2019.
I’d expect the Conservatives now to hold Harrow East, Hendon, Finchley & Golders Green. Places like Two Cities, Kensington & Bayswater, Chingford, however, are gone.
My fag packet calculation was hold everything from Finchley up (13 seats), one or two more possible if worked very hard but I fancy resource would be better extended elsewhere
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
If HYUFD is only a “supposed” Tory then I’m not sure the real thing can possibly exist.
I believe HYUFD is held in a temperature-controlled glass case in Paris as the SI unit for "The Tory". Toryism is measured on a sliding scale from 0% to 100% HYUFD.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
If HYUFD is only a “supposed” Tory then I’m not sure the real thing can possibly exist.
I believe HYUFD is held in a temperature-controlled glass case in Paris as the SI unit for "The Tory". Toryism is measured on a sliding scale from 0% to 100% HYUFD.
I would have agreed, but it seems he has been allowed to decay to just 75%?
Or maybe they have moved to a higher standard of purity?
(also FPT… 95% of cyclists do have a device capable of measuring speed on their bike, it’s called a smartphone. And the 5% that don’t are called Bert, aged 90, and use the bike for cycling to Spar and church at 6mph. I’m a fairly fervent cycling advocate but I tend to think speed limits should apply to us too.)
I question the 95%; I don't routinely run a speedo of any sort (except on the E-folder), and theft of Smartphones from handlebars is a real problem.
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
I agree that offences such as Dangerous Cycling should be sufficient and in busy urban areas it is wise not to go to quickly even when cycling on the road. I once got unseated by a pedestrian stepping out without looking into the cycle lane right in front of me, assuming that it was safe because the motor traffic was (as usual) stationary.
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
You can get a bike GPS for 25 quid on Amazon
I'm sure I can but I don't care enough and can't be bothered!
My phone is also in my bag. I do use a speedo, but only use it for distance measuring. It is plain dangerous to keep looking down at the speedo so people suggesting that clearly don't cycle as that is asking for a collision or hitting a pot hole and being thrown off. Admittedly I don't present a threat to speed limits anyway. I don't cycle much in built up areas and if I do I will cycle slowly (10 kph). On country lanes (if flat and with good tarmac) I will cycle between 20 - 35 kph and that will have been on unrestricted country lanes.
I cycle and look at the speedometer. No more dangerous than in a car. Unless I am off touring somewhere I know where the potholes are.
It is true Sunak needs to bear blame for these results.
It is also true Braverman's a total failure as a politician as well as a pretty nasty piece of work who thinks laws don't apply to her and needs to stfu.
Got round to watching the Susan Hall speech and then the booing and heckling of Khan.
All together deeply unsavoury. I wonder if a Tory Grandee (perhaps Cameron?) should step in and calm things down a bit, and the Government should look at the kind of protection Khan has got. I think he could be in serious personal peril.
Khan has 24 hour protection as he faces credible death threats from both Islamists and the Far Right. He faces constant danger but I believe does have good protection. I think he is an extremely brave man, personally.
Yes, having lost under 40s who mostly rent in 2019, the Tories have now lost property owners with mortgages from 40-65 after the Truss budget led to a surge in interest rates. Hence for now the only group the Conservatives still lead with pensioners over 65 who are owner occupiers
The Truss budget didn't lead to rising interest rates.
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
If HYUFD is only a “supposed” Tory then I’m not sure the real thing can possibly exist.
I believe HYUFD is held in a temperature-controlled glass case in Paris as the SI unit for "The Tory". Toryism is measured on a sliding scale from 0% to 100% HYUFD.
I would have agreed, but it seems he has been allowed to decay to just 75%?
Possibly. Just as the SI unit for a metre was changed from a platinum rod to a number of wavelengths of light, they are working on an AI replacement for "The HYUFD". But until then we have to stick with the original archetype.
However, Russia has massively ramped up expenditure on its armed forces and if it achieves victory in Ukraine in the next year or two it will be more than capable of a rapid invasion of the Baltic Tigers. The countries are small and there's a severe risk they'd be overrun before substantial reinforcements arrive.
Even if Putin doesn't try and do that to NATO, Moldova's a sitting duck, as is Georgia.
Mr. Donkeys, draw up a list of invasions Putin's overseen, then make a list of countries he's invaded that were never in the USSR.
Fancy putting a full stop after Mr, Morris; call yourself British?
Well done for making the effort to read Mrs Dancer's posts! I really can't be arsed to dig out whatever she's replying to in order to make sense of them.
There are few things weirder than a party of aged German cycling enthusiasts, such as the group who have just pitched up in their matching blue lycra outfits
I think the question now is the size of Labour's majority - from barebones to landslide of 97 style, these results show us there is neither a tidal wave of enthusiastic popular support for Lab nor a universal loathing of the Tories sufficient to take us outside of this on the upside nor any sign of recovery or 'stop the reds' sufficient to take us past the downside
It was only a couple of years ago that the conventional wisdom on PB was that getting any sort of majority would be too steep a mountain for Labour to climb.
It is true Sunak needs to bear blame for these results.
It is also true Braverman's a total failure as a politician as well as a pretty nasty piece of work who thinks laws don't apply to her and needs to stfu.
Blaming policies allows Conservative politicians to ignore that the main problem the Conservatives have is the mentality and behaviour of Conservative politicians.
I think the question now is the size of Labour's majority - from barebones to landslide of 97 style, these results show us there is neither a tidal wave of enthusiastic popular support for Lab nor a universal loathing of the Tories sufficient to take us outside of this on the upside nor any sign of recovery or 'stop the reds' sufficient to take us past the downside
It was only a couple of years ago that the conventional wisdom on PB was that getting any sort of majority would be too steep a mountain for Labour to climb.
Obviously one can only speculate based on how things are, not how they were. If conditions change then so shall speculation but time is very short now for that
It is true Sunak needs to bear blame for these results.
It is also true Braverman's a total failure as a politician as well as a pretty nasty piece of work who thinks laws don't apply to her and needs to stfu.
Blaming policies allows Conservative politicians to ignore that the main problem the Conservatives have is the mentality and behaviour of Conservative politicians.
There is something rotten in the state of the candidates’ list. Too many are morally and:or financially corrupt.
@Haggis_UK Watch Suella Braverman spit her dummy out.
"Keir Starmer has the charisma of a peanut... Labour is a party of hard left maniacs, who would undo brexit, who would open our borders & who would indoctrinated our institutions & schools with PC madness.. "
Possible we’re watching it dawning on the Conservative Party that Britain isn’t the country they think it is in real time.
That second tweet points to something. It’s a feature of FPTP and it affects Labour too.
Because of our voting system it’s possible for one party platform to get a big majority. They then tell themselves they represent the settled will of the British people. After 2019 Conservatives convinced themselves the electorate were all solid salt of the earth John bulls, keen Brexiteers shaped in the image of their new Red Wall MP intake.
Thatcher had the same delusions after 1983 and 87 and they eventually brought her down. Blair looked at his majorities and decided he was invincible.
In PR systems with coalitions that delusion is much less likely to take hold. It’s notable to me that the moment the SNP started believing it was the sole authentic voice of Scotland was after the 2015 FPTP landslide, not after relative success in Holyrood.
Sensible tories are no stranger to the fact that a majority of the younger generation is risk-averse, has no national pride, is reflexively left wing (though unclear over what this actually means), and has an obtuse lack of understanding of the implications of green policy (or in fact of any policy). It coincides being increasingly dim. Liz Truss's entire schtick is to take the right wing arguments out there - as we know, she gives it 10 years to reverse the trend and pull the same trick as the left has done. That seems to be what Suella wants to do too, and good for her.
I’m not sure if “our voters are stupid idiots who hate the country” is a better or worse approach than “our voters all agree with us”.
I'm not suggesting that that's the approach they take. And there will always be a minority that thinks critically and ends up thinking 'hey this is wrong' as indeed there is in this generation. Very few of us who are right wing in this country are so because we were taught it in school.
I was taught all sorts of right wing stuff at school, particularly by my science teachers (one of whom seemed to be borderline creationist). The English teachers were lefties - one of them was known as “the commie”. Funny looking back. School pupils largely ignore what their teachers tell them.
I wouldn't call having one science teacher who was a 'borderline creationist' 'being taught all sorts of right wing views', and the surprise with which you describe his borderline creationism rather tells its own story, wouldn't you say?
I am not sure that pupils can 'ignore' that much of their education - they may ignore or disregard being told to be quiet or hand their homework in on time, but they are still educated in a miasma of accepted truth via both the curriculum and the way it's delivered, which only a minority grow to oppose. It's not the same in the US of course.
I was “taught”:
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher) - foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher) - All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
Sad.
As someone educated in the 90s I don't remember anything like that. Sometimes teachers offered their own views but it was generally pointed out that it was their own opinion. Maybe I was just lucky.
I don’t think my school was particularly right wing. It’s just the teachers were very direct in sharing their opinions on things and including them in teaching. The same was true of the lefties (mainly English and drama) and pro-European centrist types (languages and geography).
The teachers generally avoided racism but filled their boots with homophobia, but then that was part of wider culture then, and the students were worse - I’m taking late 80s early 90s.
The two teachers I had who were most overt about their political beliefs were a history and maths teacher who were both quite right wing and would enjoy needling left wing pupils. It was mostly good humoured and I don't think they converted anyone. Perhaps I didn't notice the left wing bias of other teachers as I shared it but I think it was more that the right wing teachers enjoyed political debate. They were both excellent teachers, incidentally - the history teacher in particular was probably the best teacher in the school. Sadly there was a lot of low level homophobia at the school, it was endemic in the late 80s/early 90s and the gay kids didn't have a great time. Racism wasn't a big deal as I recall, but the school was more than 99% white.
Just outside the restaurant in the piazza there is a memorial to a batch of young Italians shot in reprisal for some partisan act in 1944. References to German brutality in the inscription. Must make being a German tourist difficult at times
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Street seems far too nice a chap to survive long in the modern Tory Party. Would he even want the trouble of getting involved in what is likely a brutal civil war with people (Braverman, Boris and his acolytes) who would use every dirty trick at him if consider a threat?
Not sure that Braverman is capable of posing as much of a threat as she thinks - she has an article in the Telegraph today saying that Rishi is in a hole and should therefore get shovelling. Clearly a political genius.
It is insane - but it is fact - that Andy Street will have next to no role to play in any Tory rebuild. He has some serious thinking to do about whether he wants to be complicit in what happens next.
Au contraire. Jobless Andy Street has six months until the general election to find a safe seat, in which case he will be nailed on for the shadow cabinet with a fair chance of replacing Rishi when he steps down as leader.
Isn't it more likely that he will just put his feet up and spend more time with his partner. They are both getting on a bit.
There are few things weirder than a party of aged German cycling enthusiasts, such as the group who have just pitched up in their matching blue lycra outfits
I have a funny story about naked German Scouts in Knoydart...
They had a brilliant octagonal tent though. It could sleep one person to an edge, and had a hole in the middle that allowed smoke from a central campfire to go through. Not seen one like it since.
Just outside the restaurant in the piazza there is a memorial to a batch of young Italians shot in reprisal for some partisan act in 1944. References to German brutality in the inscription. Must make being a German tourist difficult at times
I travelled by bus through the Sudetenland in 2004, with a group of Bavarians. I bet several were thinking “we used to live here.”
At that time, the area was a wilderness, plainly never having recovered from the mass expulsion.
Comments
Any piece of writing containing a tweet 🡒 bin.
Any piece of writing citing "experts" 🡒 bin.
Most writing now is sub-Christmas round robin.
The blog for example is a fucking awful medium. Avoid.
- homosexuality is totally unnatural, no wonder it’s never been accepted in societies (biology teacher)
- foetuses feel pain from early in pregnancy and Abortion is therefore tantamount to torture (RE teacher)
- All sorts of glorious stuff about the British empire and how it was better than the Grench one (history teacher)
Etc
Teachers were pretty open about their politics back then, but as I say largely ignored
However, Russia has massively ramped up expenditure on its armed forces and if it achieves victory in Ukraine in the next year or two it will be more than capable of a rapid invasion of the Baltic Tigers. The countries are small and there's a severe risk they'd be overrun before substantial reinforcements arrive.
Even if Putin doesn't try and do that to NATO, Moldova's a sitting duck, as is Georgia.
Mr. Donkeys, draw up a list of invasions Putin's overseen, then make a list of countries he's invaded that were never in the USSR.
19 Lab
15 Green
3 LD
2 Indy ex Lab
So, theoretically, on LD and ex Lab tastes we could see a Green admin for the first time
The stuff about "can't be charged because of no applicable speed limit" is pure BS, and Telegraph stirring; there are offences such as Careless Cycling and Dangerous Cycling on the books since about 1991, which could have been designed for head-down-not-looking pelotons in Central London. There are loopholes around where injury is caused, which are exactly the same in principle as those that exist for motor vehicle drivers between eg Careless Driving, and Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving; so if injury is less than broken bones it cannot be charged.
That's due to 8 or 10 do-nothing Transport Ministers in a row, who have not done what they said they would do wrt Road Safety.
It's a strange thing that the Telegraph are maundering on about speed limits for people riding cycles, when the first thing they tell us about 20mph limits for motor vehicles is how impossible they are to stick to and 'it will be more dangerous because all the drivers will be glued to their speedometers'. Which is it, Telegraph?
I'll address the points made on the previous thread later because they deserve a serious comment & proposals rather than the Telegraph's poisonous & opportunistic shit stirring. The lady who died in this collision deserves a better legacy.
I would have weighed in yesterday evening, but I was cycling up and down part of the Trent around Nottingham / Holme Pierrepoint. Millions of competitive student rowers everywhere, who will presumably be engaged in vigorous nocturnal activity all weekend.
Lib Dem 1496
Conservative 880
Labour 401
Green 138
Lib Dem gain from Conservative.
The public know who to vote for.
As someone walking past the polling station said to me - "If you had been a standing there as a Conservative you would have been shot."
https://www.ft.com/content/f4f19e1b-b4c9-405c-9ea2-d6b13f9b4efa
You know they only pay that much to piss off the doctors.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies_My_Teacher_Told_Me
The Tories have lost control of South Norfolk Council after losing a by election on Thursday in Bunwell to the Greens (10 votes in it!)
In the other By election, the Tories gained Hermitage ward in Breckland from the Lib Dems (Mid Norfolk constituency)
My phone is always in my bag so not much use for judging speed, even if I could work out how to get Strava to show actual speed rather than average.
In practice I notice that flat out I can just about sustain 30km/h for a km or two. A younger, fitter, more serious cyclist can probably manage that consistently. It seems that the fastest I have been is 58kph downhill. There is a camera to catch people speeding downhill just inside a 30mph zone on one of my regular routes; I have been trying to set it off for years without success.
Section 28 was controversial even in the Tory party.
The Mail, Sun and Telegraph all strongly supported it, of course. Labour were equivocal.
Betting PostF1: backed Sainz and Perez each way (single stake split evenly) at 21 and 26. if either can get past Leclerc they stand a good chance of holding on.
Of course, Verstappen's car breaking would be ideal, but twice in one season might be asking a bit much.
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2024/05/miami-pre-race-2024.html
I say this to you because you purport to be a loyal conservative, yet along with the current leadership, you buy into Labour attack lines. It cannot be argued that Truss's growth plan was not mistimed, poorly sold, and she hadn't prepared the ground for it - nor that the events surrounding it have damaged the cause of low tax high growth economic models. But it compounds the damage when supposed Tories are only too willing to repeat Labour narratives.
Now I am in sunny Urbino and having a more hearty lunch of schiaffoni and rabbit.
All together deeply unsavoury. I wonder if a Tory Grandee (perhaps Cameron?) should step in and calm things down a bit, and the Government should look at the kind of protection Khan has got. I think he could be in serious personal peril.
In complete contrast, I have just discovered my supermarket delivery is missing the asparagus and broccoli I ordered.
I have often noted this about the wet tendency which currently holds the leadership and cabinet. Very very quick to condemn disunity and carping about their figureheads - but an absolute nest of vipers when it comes to a non-wet leader. I remember Anna Soubry complaining about disloyalty to Cameron 'Why aren't we bashing lefties instead of each other?' (delightful sentiment) but as soon as Brexit looked like going through, she changed her tune on 'bashing lefties' and decided to form a political party with them.
As someone educated in the 90s I don't remember anything like that. Sometimes teachers offered their own views but it was generally pointed out that it was their own opinion. Maybe I was just lucky.
After the next general election it will likely be a Labour government then responsible for the economic situation affecting mortgage rates
They'll pick whichever of the surviving leadership hopefuls is the farthest right, because they'll be feeling rejected and hurt, and that'll be what fits with their inclinations. Remember that the Tories had to work through an entire cycle of failed and defeated leaders over a decade before they finally accepted the need for detoxification and picked David Cameron.
Car drivers have a harder time, particularly EVs with their lack of feedback and high acceleration.
Personally I find most 20mph limits quite dangerous. I usually get around on a 125cc class scooter, which have the interesting attributes of being very lightweight and possessing crazy low-speed acceleration. It's very easy to jump from 20 to 30 in a second or so, and the CVT transmission on scooters provides much less feedback in the way of engine revs than a geared system.
The result is I spend much more time than I am comfortable with looking at the speedo in 20mph zones. My nearest city, Glasgow, is apparently planing to introduce 20mph limits on over 4000 streets. I'll probably give up going there, it's already hostile territory for vehicles, even more so for scooters and motorcycles than cars.
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/04/local-election-results-suella-braverman-rishi-sunak/)
Tom Watson has lost loads of weight.
I’d expect the Conservatives now to hold Harrow East, Hendon, Finchley & Golders Green. Places like Two Cities, Kensington & Bayswater, Chingford, however, are gone.
And don't worry about 20mph - you get used to it very quickly, and I instinctively drive at that speed now in most urban areas. 30mph just feels a bit hectic now.
It's the same idiotic thinking that has many 'cyclists' claim helmets are unnecessary...
I'm not saying we should have speedos on bikes; just that whilst a minority of pepperami-in-lycra cyclists act like @sshats by selfishly speeding, it's something that should be considered.
(Citation: just did a very pleasant Sunday morning ride, just under 40km.)
It would be more sensible for teachers to be instructed to be open about their personal beliefs and then encourage students to disagree, critique and debate them based on evidence. That's what I was encouraged to do in sixth form by a (Socialist) teacher and it gave me a far better education than just being taught boring facts. Whether all teachers are capable of doing so in a constructive and positive way is another question, of course.
In any case - we can't have that as it might lead to actual critical thinking, which every aspect of our school system seems designed to suppress.
I was very surprised, incidentally, to see a new system for maths teaching in a school I've been advising that did not prize problem solving or creativity.
The teachers generally avoided racism but filled their boots with homophobia, but then that was part of wider culture then, and the students were worse - I’m taking late 80s early 90s.
0gpm would be more like it.
If so, have you considered *why* you were wrong, and how reading and trusting 'alternative' news sources can lead you into all sorts of dark alleys?
Personally, I'd suggest someone who willingly spread Putin's poison about MH17 displays many 'interesting' psychological traits....
Or maybe they have moved to a higher standard of purity?
It is true Sunak needs to bear blame for these results.
It is also true Braverman's a total failure as a politician as well as a pretty nasty piece of work who thinks laws don't apply to her and needs to stfu.
Sadly there was a lot of low level homophobia at the school, it was endemic in the late 80s/early 90s and the gay kids didn't have a great time. Racism wasn't a big deal as I recall, but the school was more than 99% white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNid_rWDnI
They had a brilliant octagonal tent though. It could sleep one person to an edge, and had a hole in the middle that allowed smoke from a central campfire to go through. Not seen one like it since.
And they're Austrian, not German
At that time, the area was a wilderness, plainly never having recovered from the mass expulsion.