John Swinney confirms what we reported on Monday; he doesn't want to be a short-term stopgap and would intend to lead the SNP into next Holyrood election.
John Swinney 17/2 Who Will Replace Humza Yousaf As The Next Permanent Leader Of The SNP? Next Permanent SNP Leader (Temporary or Caretaker Leaders Do Not Count) 22:00, 30 Jun Stake:£10.00 Pot. Returns:£95.00 Bet Receipt: 145367706 10:43 - 29 Apr
Note the timestamp on the bet. Before Yousless made his announcement, but after those of us who were paying attention already knew he had gone.
The Tories are third among Leave voters. 32-28-27 RFM-LAB-CON.
The Tories are also third in the 50-64 age group. 43-21-18 LAB-RFM-CON.
The Tories are also third among male voters. 43-18-16 LAB-RFM-CON.
It's no surprise that they're also third among Remain voters (LDM second) or in the 18-24 age group (GRN second, RFM joint-third), or in Scotland/Wales (SNP/PC second). But I thought the other ones were more interesting and unusual.
Oh, and the Tories are fifth in London. 44-16-14-12-10 LAB-LDM-RFM-GRN-CON.
The opinion polls for the London Assembly elections were pretty accurate last time compared to the result of 31% of the vote for the list portion. The only opinion poll from YouGov has the Tories second on 21% so, while fun, subsamples are not to be relied upon.
Just been to vote. Huge queues at the polling station. Well, me and my dog. And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Off-topic: one of my favourite facts about Napoleon is that he has been called the discoverer of the following cool theorem:
if you construct equilateral triangles on the sides of ANY triangle, their centres form another equilateral triangle.
His role as originator has been disputed. But this is still called Napoleon's theorem and the constructed triangle is called the Napoleon triangle of the original one.
He was certainly into maths, being an admirer of Carl Friedrich Gauss and an enthusiast for uncovering the mathematical mysteries of the pyramids at Giza.
He started as an artillery officer. Very unfashionable branch of the French army of the time, but very heavy on the maths, in order to calculate trajectories.
The first computer was used to calculate artillery tables.
Just returned from voting in village hall, where otherwise were present two officials in an empty echoing craft club free communal space. Voting (for PCC only) neither brisk nor at pace. No dogs at the polling station. Officials described activity as 'well spaced'. Spotted orange-tip butterfly on return and hope for an early sighting of marsh fritillary this afternoon.
Living in a village I have known since the mid 70s, and where I have not seen a policeman for 20 years, and voting for a PCC I call to mind days I remember when a policeman lived in a police house in the village, as they did in many Cumbrian communities. Not mentioned in the manifestos!
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the polls weren’t static but that the graphs showed a steadily downward trend in Conservative support. I was once again vilified for the suggestion but your post @Scott_xP bears it out. The Conservatives lost 2% in March and it looks as if the trend is continuing, with a Reform crossover by no means impossible.
That Reform are only fielding 300 candidates in the locals should make us additionally wary about reading too much into the results.
Quite how this continuing slide feeds into Moon Rabbit’s assertions to the contrary I have no idea.
Good morning. 🙂
For one thing you are breakfasting on just 1 poll from 1 firm. That’s not very clever is it. What happened to your five a day?
Whilst you are breakfasting, the huge elephant is still there in the room with “the fact of the matter is” sign held by its trunk right in your face: 26% lead is based on Labour stuck on around 43% in this poll going backwards - it’s created by 18% + 15% who have voted as a bloc in recent elections because they are very like minded. It won’t take months to bring this voter bloc back together, just weeks.
What’s the trigger that brings the bloc together?
Greater scrutiny on what Labour will actually do? This morning Labour can’t answer the question “everyone Rwanda Plan sends to Rwanda, are you bringing them back when you scrap it”. Calling something very real very happening a gimmick is now the gimmick position.
Inflation under 2%, strong 2024 growth bouncing us out of recession and on path to further tax cuts, and interest rate and mortgage cuts too? On the hustings Sunak told Truss she was wrong and he could do it right, and has proved it by completely reversing the damage she caused.
The fact GE is FPTP? UKIP done very well in every other election and opinion polls, but the bloc always comes together for the GE.
A deal? Round the table, here’s the deal, Con won’t stand in these 21 most winnable Reform seats, if Reform don’t stand in every other one. Farage, Tice, Lee can all sit together in what might be HoC 4th largest party. They will take that deal when Rishi offers it. And that puts the Tories on 36% in polls and just 6 behind Labour in about 36hrs.
Don’t listen to Stodge and Stu and everyone who tells you those Reform polling numbers are now opposition voters who won’t vote Tory. That concepts a fantasy.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I feel that Burgh Island might be more your type of island.
Can we please give @Heathener a break. This is bullying.
Worse, this is stuff that should have stayed on the last thread. We should ban FPT posts. If you've not convinced anyone about the sanctity of AV for Scottish subsamples in your 17 posts on the last thread, forget it and move on.
She posted about it on this thread. Take it up with her.
That's my point. It should have stayed on the last thread.
At 10.33am I caused a flurry of excitement by being the first person at my polling station to use the council-issued voter ID, which required an election worker to be summoned and a new form used, so it looks like they are keeping count. It will be interesting if the numbers for each form of ID are announced.
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that the polls weren’t static but that the graphs showed a steadily downward trend in Conservative support. I was once again vilified for the suggestion but your post @Scott_xP bears it out. The Conservatives lost 2% in March and it looks as if the trend is continuing, with a Reform crossover by no means impossible.
That Reform are only fielding 300 candidates in the locals should make us additionally wary about reading too much into the results.
Quite how this continuing slide feeds into Moon Rabbit’s assertions to the contrary I have no idea.
Good morning. 🙂
For one thing you are breakfasting on just 1 poll from 1 firm. That’s not very clever is it. What happened to your five a day?
Whilst you are breakfasting, the huge elephant is still there in the room with “the fact of the matter is” sign held by its trunk right in your face: 26% lead is based on Labour stuck on around 43% in this poll going backwards - it’s created by 18% + 15% who have voted as a bloc in recent elections because they are very like minded. It won’t take months to bring this voter bloc back together, just weeks.
What’s the trigger that brings the bloc together?
Greater scrutiny on what Labour will actually do? This morning Labour can’t answer the question “everyone Rwanda Plan sends to Rwanda, are you bringing them back when you scrap it”. Calling something very real very happening a gimmick is now the gimmick position.
Inflation under 2%, strong 2024 growth bouncing us out of recession and on path to further tax cuts, and interest rate and mortgage cuts too? On the hustings Sunak told Truss she was wrong and he could do it right, and has proved it by completely reversing the damage she caused.
The fact GE is FPTP? UKIP done very well in every other election and opinion polls, but the bloc always comes together for the GE.
A deal? Round the table, here’s the deal, Con won’t stand in these 21 most winnable Reform seats, if Reform don’t stand in every other one. Farage, Tice, Lee can all sit together in what might be HoC 4th largest party. They will take that deal when Rishi offers it. And that puts the Tories on 36% in polls and just 6 behind Labour in about 36hrs.
Don’t listen to Stodge and Stu and everyone who tells you those Reform polling numbers are now opposition voters who won’t vote Tory. That concepts a fantasy.
Not agreeing with some details here, but the Tory/Reform split and vote (and deal??) remains by far the great unknown of the GE; and which is why both NOM and Labour gaining fewer seats than expected remain value.
The twitterati are gorging themselves silly on that YouGov poll despite the fact they'll have a few million real votes to pore over in 48 hours rather than one poll.
Which is the better predictor for bettors? If I had a good Tory council or mayor I'd be quite happy to vote for them, whereas zero chance of me voting for the current incarnation of the national party. I doubt I am alone in that.
You take it all in the round. Yes polls are GE specific but there is no GE so they are also an expression of dissatisfaction. They become more relevant as a defined date approaches and minds are made up by the DKs. As we see with the LE and mayoral polling
I'd say polling is more valuable than local elections. Obviously both combined is better than either, but if I could only know the last ten polls or the local election results, I'd rather know the last ten polls.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
Brave. You'd better hope Hall doesn't win by one vote.
The probability of Hall winning by 1 vote is at least hundreds of millions to one against.
Are you sure?
Turnout was 2 million odd last time. Chances of a 1m/1,000,001 victory are 1/1m *1/1m. Multiply that by the range of possible turnouts which we will call 1.8m to 2.5m or 400000 and that gives you 1/5 * 1/1m. Which is low millions to one against. I think.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
Brave. You'd better hope Hall doesn't win by one vote.
The probability of Hall winning by 1 vote is at least hundreds of millions to one against.
Are you sure?
Turnout was 2 million odd last time. Chances of a 1m/1,000,001 victory are 1/1m *1/1m. Multiply that by the range of possible turnouts which we will call 1.8m to 2.5m or 400000 and that gives you 1/5 * 1/1m. Which is low millions to one against. I think.
You need to adjust for the likelihood it's close though - or you could run the same exercise for Count Binface and Khan. The odds of Hall winning are 29-1, which is probably about right. So multiply your figure by 29.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
You should check out Kenneth Clark's brilliant description of Iona in the opening chapter of Civilisation.
At 10.33am I caused a flurry of excitement by being the first person at my polling station to use the council-issued voter ID, which required an election worker to be summoned and a new form used, so it looks like they are keeping count. It will be interesting if the numbers for each form of ID are announced.
Twin A took her disabled parking permit (and driving licence) when she went to vote. I will find out later if the council issued parking permit was allowed
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
711 migrants were detected crossing the English Channel on Wednesday, the highest number on a single day so far this year.
That's a huge number. How on earth does that volume evade the French authorities?
I presume it's that time of year when they're renegotiating their stipend.
The weather is getting warmer, so with perfect timing, Rwanda will come on line just as the crossing numbers accelerate. I would say Sunak is an unlucky general, but everything about the Rwanda policy is pointless and ridiculous, so it is his own fault that he chose to die in a ditch for such nonsense.
At 10.33am I caused a flurry of excitement by being the first person at my polling station to use the council-issued voter ID, which required an election worker to be summoned and a new form used, so it looks like they are keeping count. It will be interesting if the numbers for each form of ID are announced.
Twin A took her disabled parking permit (and driving licence) when she went to vote. I will find out later if the council issued parking permit was allowed
One of the curiousities aiui is you can vote without photoID through the postal vote system, and even drop it off at the polling station if preferred.
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
The staff were wrong, unless she had changed her name since the ID was issued.
Out of date photo ID You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
Can we please give @Heathener a break. This is bullying.
Worse, this is stuff that should have stayed on the last thread. We should ban FPT posts. If you've not convinced anyone about the sanctity of AV for Scottish subsamples in your 17 posts on the last thread, forget it and move on.
She posted about it on this thread. Take it up with her.
That's my point. It should have stayed on the last thread.
It really is most un-pb like to take threads off topic. Probably something to do with those posters parents upbringing imo.
Can we please give @Heathener a break. This is bullying.
Worse, this is stuff that should have stayed on the last thread. We should ban FPT posts. If you've not convinced anyone about the sanctity of AV for Scottish subsamples in your 17 posts on the last thread, forget it and move on.
She posted about it on this thread. Take it up with her.
That's my point. It should have stayed on the last thread.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
FPT: Ms. Heathener, 'love' is a general term used in Yorkshire. It's not remotely sexist. It's used for men as well as women.
No. The comment was: 'When in a hole, luv.’
Totally unacceptable I’m afraid. Not, at any rate, if you still want this forum a) to attract women and b) to attract younger people.
But do you? That’s the question. Or would some of you rather it became an echo chamber for older (mostly white) men?
I ask that sincerely because I feel it’s the way this place is in danger of going.
If you (pl) want to attract a younger audience, with people from all walks of life - yes including transgendered people and other minority groups - then you seriously need to address the way you post things and how people are welcomed / treated.
Think on these things.
Let's have some context here. You are faking offence over a comment which was part of a string of posts which called out a racist trope you made about the PM and your racist trope was not only unacceptable but it united people across the political divide in their condemnation.
You were in a hole, you should have stopped digging, you should not have doubled down.
This forum should want to attract women and young people. It should not seek to attract racists.
To be honest I think an apology from @Heathener would be appropriate following her widely condemned and, as you say right across the political divide, for her uncalled for comments about Sunak
You can attack Sunak over many things but racism is not one
Yes, I agree with you. I think an apology would have just put it all to bed and moved on. But she just doubled down and went on the attack.
It unified posters across the political divide here in their condemnation. A rarity.
Heathener is a sanctimonious pain in the arse but we don't know that they are incorrect. People just want them cancelled for wrongthink.
I genuinely believe @Heathener might be a marvellous comic creation. The outright racism was a brilliant move, and now the sudden.effrontery at being called “my luv”? Superb
Also she actually used the word bricolage - in italics like that - and she claims to keep boiled water in a thermos
They is a genius sock puppet and I salute the puppeteer
Oh god I think you might be right and as we speak there are three frat boys high-fiving that "she" is giving us all the run-around.
Yes I think so
Even if she isn’t a sock puppet created by talented surrealists she is now so ridiculous - a racist Postwoman who travels the world winning literary prizes for her warm water thermos work, she really isn’t worth getting riled by
Enjoy the theatre instead
I detect a certain professional envy there (and I don’t mean towards Heathener’s claimed literary output).
FPT: Ms. Heathener, 'love' is a general term used in Yorkshire. It's not remotely sexist. It's used for men as well as women.
No. The comment was: 'When in a hole, luv.’
Totally unacceptable I’m afraid. Not, at any rate, if you still want this forum a) to attract women and b) to attract younger people.
But do you? That’s the question. Or would some of you rather it became an echo chamber for older (mostly white) men?
I ask that sincerely because I feel it’s the way this place is in danger of going.
If you (pl) want to attract a younger audience, with people from all walks of life - yes including transgendered people and other minority groups - then you seriously need to address the way you post things and how people are welcomed / treated.
Think on these things.
Let's have some context here. You are faking offence over a comment which was part of a string of posts which called out a racist trope you made about the PM and your racist trope was not only unacceptable but it united people across the political divide in their condemnation.
You were in a hole, you should have stopped digging, you should not have doubled down.
This forum should want to attract women and young people. It should not seek to attract racists.
To be honest I think an apology from @Heathener would be appropriate following her widely condemned and, as you say right across the political divide, for her uncalled for comments about Sunak
You can attack Sunak over many things but racism is not one
Yes, I agree with you. I think an apology would have just put it all to bed and moved on. But she just doubled down and went on the attack.
It unified posters across the political divide here in their condemnation. A rarity.
Heathener is a sanctimonious pain in the arse but we don't know that they are incorrect. People just want them cancelled for wrongthink.
I genuinely believe @Heathener might be a marvellous comic creation. The outright racism was a brilliant move, and now the sudden.effrontery at being called “my luv”? Superb
Also she actually used the word bricolage - in italics like that - and she claims to keep boiled water in a thermos
They is a genius sock puppet and I salute the puppeteer
Oh god I think you might be right and as we speak there are three frat boys high-fiving that "she" is giving us all the run-around.
Yes I think so
Even if she isn’t a sock puppet created by talented surrealists she is now so ridiculous - a racist Postwoman who travels the world winning literary prizes for her warm water thermos work, she really isn’t worth getting riled by
Enjoy the theatre instead
I detect a certain professional envy there (and I don’t mean towards Heathener’s claimed literary output).
Can we please give @Heathener a break. This is bullying.
Worse, this is stuff that should have stayed on the last thread. We should ban FPT posts. If you've not convinced anyone about the sanctity of AV for Scottish subsamples in your 17 posts on the last thread, forget it and move on.
She posted about it on this thread. Take it up with her.
That's my point. It should have stayed on the last thread.
It really is most un-pb like to take threads off topic. Probably something to do with those posters parents upbringing imo.
And that's another thing. Whoever makes the first post should have to read the header and comment on it, not just type "first" before doing a victory lap then coming back later to edit it.
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
The staff were wrong, unless she had changed her name since the ID was issued.
Out of date photo ID You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
I got the impression that her licence was just a bit of paper, with no photo.
Agree that they should have accepted it, though - they have no way to verify or validate the ID, so the only useful thing they can do is check that the name matches the one on the electoral roll. From a voting integrity point of view, the photo adds nothing.
Why does it look ridiculous? What have you done for leave voters? Runaway immigration Can't see a GP or Dentist Food prices up
Of course they are looking at other parties - they want someone to fix the mess and actually deliver the things they were promised.
FOM ended, a visa requirement raised to £37k minimum salary for new migrants. Inflation now falling
Punters don't care about "Freedom of Movement". They just want migration to stop. Has it stopped? No, it increased. NHS is utterly screwed. You didn't say anything about that. And don't say "its had more than £350m a week" because it hasn't gone on front line care which is worse not better Inflation? How about interest rates? How about mortgage rates? How about food prices? Are you really planning to go into the election telling people who know they are worse off that actually they are better off actually? Really?
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
The staff were wrong, unless she had changed her name since the ID was issued.
Out of date photo ID You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
Says on the back of my poll card, 'If your photographic identification has expired it will still be accepted so long as the photograph is still a good likeness of you'.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
I never had you down as a lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic. If nothing else, with apologies, I don't really consider Selby 'metropolitan'.
The penny has just dropped that Selebian means someone from Selby.
Selby's only about 10 miles east of me but it's somewhere I go very, very infrequently. I suppose because it's in a different county - the focus was always west to the bright lights of Pontefract and Wakefield and, if you're particularly fond of travelling to far flung exotic locales, that Leeds.
But I agree, I don't think Selby's particularly metropolitan.
That’s interesting to me as a non Englander. Is county identity so strong that it might discourage you from popping over to a nice pub across county lines? Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
The staff were wrong, unless she had changed her name since the ID was issued.
Out of date photo ID You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
That's the problem right there: as long as it looks like you. Ten years older, different hair style, possibly even a different colour. If you know the woman, you can recognise her, but the election workers have never clapped eyes on her before this morning.
The worst thing that could possibly happen to this site is for it to try to attract younger, more diverse contributors, or try to attract anyone really. What makes it good is that it exists outside of the world of needily trying to do anything like that
Can we please give @Heathener a break. This is bullying.
Worse, this is stuff that should have stayed on the last thread. We should ban FPT posts. If you've not convinced anyone about the sanctity of AV for Scottish subsamples in your 17 posts on the last thread, forget it and move on.
She posted about it on this thread. Take it up with her.
That's my point. It should have stayed on the last thread.
It really is most un-pb like to take threads off topic. Probably something to do with those posters parents upbringing imo.
And that's another thing. Whoever makes the first post should have to read the header and comment on it, not just type "first" before doing a victory lap then coming back later to edit it.
The worst thing that could possibly happen to this site is for it to try to attract younger, more diverse contributors, or try to attract anyone really. What makes it good is that it exists outside of the world of needily trying to do anything like that
As long as they and their values are identifiably British all are welcome.
The worst thing that could possibly happen to this site is for it to try to attract younger, more diverse contributors, or try to attract anyone really. What makes it good is that it exists outside of the world of needily trying to do anything like that
I rather like the idea of a post for PBCom EDI officer
Inflation under 2%, strong 2024 growth bouncing us out of recession and on path to further tax cuts, and interest rate and mortgage cuts too? On the hustings Sunak told Truss she was wrong and he could do it right, and has proved it by completely reversing the damage she caused.
Hope you don't mind me snipping this paragraph out. You appear to be suffering from the same hopium as HY is.
Inflation? How about interest rates? How about mortgages - you say "cuts" to rates but they have just gone *up* again. And a cut from the peak is still an increase - mine didn't go up as much as it could have done, but do you think I should be greatful to the Tories that my Truss Tax is *only* £170 a month?
Why are the Tories sinking so quickly? Because having put taxes up to their highest level they are telling people there has been a tax cut. Having opened the door to soaring levels of migration they're claiming they have cut it. Having put the price of *everything* up a lot they're saying they cut inflation.
I know that hopium gets you lot driving forward with "we can sell this" but in the real world the only thing you are selling is the determination to absolutely destroy this government. You cannot lie to people's faces and insist that their lived experience actually isn't what they experience daily. It just proves to more and more of them that you are utterly disconnected from reality and sanity.
Reform is polling about as well as UKIP in 2013-16. But, unlike UKIP, these votes are showing up nowhere in real elections.
Leaving aside the special cases of Clacton and Rochester, UKIP won 39% in Heywood & Middleton, 26% in Newark, 18% in Wythenshawe, 24% in South Shields, 28% in Eastleigh, 23% in Oldham West, during this period. They had about 600 councillors.
Reform's best showing in a by-election is 13%, and they hold 9 council seats.
Just been to vote. Huge queues at the polling station. Well, me and my dog. And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
I was going to ask how your dog voted, assuming s/he isn't a shy voter, but it looks like s/he was disenfranchised. I hope s/he is going to complain.
Taking the dog down to vote later, sadly he doesn't have a pet passport (thank you Brexit) and hasn't yet got his driving license (too young), so won't be able to vote. Will give it a go though.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
I never had you down as a lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic. If nothing else, with apologies, I don't really consider Selby 'metropolitan'.
The penny has just dropped that Selebian means someone from Selby.
Selby's only about 10 miles east of me but it's somewhere I go very, very infrequently. I suppose because it's in a different county - the focus was always west to the bright lights of Pontefract and Wakefield and, if you're particularly fond of travelling to far flung exotic locales, that Leeds.
But I agree, I don't think Selby's particularly metropolitan.
That’s interesting to me as a non Englander. Is county identity so strong that it might discourage you from popping over to a nice pub across county lines? Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
The Only way from Essex to Kent is via the QE2 bridge, no train, no way of just accidentally driving there. So I have barely ever been despite living next door, about five miles as the crow flies most of my life.
When I was on tinder I set the radius to 10 miles and was getting matched with people from places I’d never heard of
Just been to vote. Huge queues at the polling station. Well, me and my dog. And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
I was going to ask how your dog voted, assuming s/he isn't a shy voter, but it looks like a/he was disenfranchised. I hope s/he is going to complain.
Taking the dog down to vote later, sadly he doesn't have a pet passport (thank you Brexit) and hasn't yet got his driving license (too young), so won't be able to vote. Will give it a go though.
Aww, no photos of PB dogs at the polling for scale today. *disappointed*
The worst thing that could possibly happen to this site is for it to try to attract younger, more diverse contributors, or try to attract anyone really. What makes it good is that it exists outside of the world of needily trying to do anything like that
I rather like the idea of a post for PBCom EDI officer
Just imagine how the PBTories would react. They're bad enough already.
John Swinney confirms what we reported on Monday; he doesn't want to be a short-term stopgap and would intend to lead the SNP into next Holyrood election.
John Swinney 17/2 Who Will Replace Humza Yousaf As The Next Permanent Leader Of The SNP? Next Permanent SNP Leader (Temporary or Caretaker Leaders Do Not Count) 22:00, 30 Jun Stake:£10.00 Pot. Returns:£95.00 Bet Receipt: 145367706 10:43 - 29 Apr
Note the timestamp on the bet. Before Yousless made his announcement, but after those of us who were paying attention already knew he had gone.
And he's gone...off on one again.
I always know when you're piqued because you go on and on and on about what you really meant.
8:40 is before 10:43 for anyone not a telling the time expert.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Indeed it is! There's the ruined abbey above the town, which has potential but tends to be a bit busy in season (quiet evening out of season it's got something). But there's an intact church at the top of the hill that certainly has something about it inside.
The noomiest places nearby though are up the coast a little way, where there are the old tunnels related to the abandoned mines.
Further inland the WW2 airfields in the vale of York are atmospheric too - e.g. you can wander around Skipwith common (and other similar sites) along the old runways and through the old munitions stores (earthworks still there).
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
Just returned from voting - the polling station was surprisingly busy at 11am, much more so than for the 2022 council elections where turnout in this part of Islington was in the high 30s. I actually had to queue for a voting booth, which has never happened to me in London before!
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
The staff were wrong, unless she had changed her name since the ID was issued.
Out of date photo ID You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
That's the problem right there: as long as it looks like you. Ten years older, different hair style, possibly even a different colour. If you know the woman, you can recognise her, but the election workers have never clapped eyes on her before this morning.
Yeah, my passport photo has me with different hair colour, length, and style, not wearing glasses, and is overprinted with a security hologram which makes it hard to see.
You can't really expect polling station workers to check it by eye.
BREAKING UCLA 🚨 : CHP Riot Police begin trying to break through protestor barrier, fights ensue, multiple injured.
But not from that clip which just shows a bunch of students being students and having some of their boogie boards ripped away from them. Only in California...
One thing about voting today. Pens not pencils were provided, which together with the instruction to fold each ballot paper *might* mean a transfer of wet ink from one candidate to another, and thus a spoiled vote.
FPT: Ms. Heathener, 'love' is a general term used in Yorkshire. It's not remotely sexist. It's used for men as well as women.
No. The comment was: 'When in a hole, luv.’
Totally unacceptable I’m afraid. Not, at any rate, if you still want this forum a) to attract women and b) to attract younger people.
But do you? That’s the question. Or would some of you rather it became an echo chamber for older (mostly white) men?
I ask that sincerely because I feel it’s the way this place is in danger of going.
If you (pl) want to attract a younger audience, with people from all walks of life - yes including transgendered people and other minority groups - then you seriously need to address the way you post things and how people are welcomed / treated.
Think on these things.
Let's have some context here. You are faking offence over a comment which was part of a string of posts which called out a racist trope you made about the PM and your racist trope was not only unacceptable but it united people across the political divide in their condemnation.
You were in a hole, you should have stopped digging, you should not have doubled down.
This forum should want to attract women and young people. It should not seek to attract racists.
To be honest I think an apology from @Heathener would be appropriate following her widely condemned and, as you say right across the political divide, for her uncalled for comments about Sunak
You can attack Sunak over many things but racism is not one
Yes, I agree with you. I think an apology would have just put it all to bed and moved on. But she just doubled down and went on the attack.
It unified posters across the political divide here in their condemnation. A rarity.
Heathener is a sanctimonious pain in the arse but we don't know that they are incorrect. People just want them cancelled for wrongthink.
I genuinely believe @Heathener might be a marvellous comic creation. The outright racism was a brilliant move, and now the sudden.effrontery at being called “my luv”? Superb
Also she actually used the word bricolage - in italics like that - and she claims to keep boiled water in a thermos
They is a genius sock puppet and I salute the puppeteer
Oh god I think you might be right and as we speak there are three frat boys high-fiving that "she" is giving us all the run-around.
Yes I think so
Even if she isn’t a sock puppet created by talented surrealists she is now so ridiculous - a racist Postwoman who travels the world winning literary prizes for her warm water thermos work, she really isn’t worth getting riled by
Enjoy the theatre instead
I detect a certain professional envy there (and I don’t mean towards Heathener’s claimed literary output).
Just been to vote. Huge queues at the polling station. Well, me and my dog. And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
I was going to ask how your dog voted, assuming s/he isn't a shy voter, but it looks like s/he was disenfranchised. I hope s/he is going to complain.
Taking the dog down to vote later, sadly he doesn't have a pet passport (thank you Brexit) and hasn't yet got his driving license (too young), so won't be able to vote. Will give it a go though.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Indeed it is! There's the ruined abbey above the town, which has potential but tends to be a bit busy in season (quiet evening out of season it's got something). But there's an intact church at the top of the hill that certainly has something about it inside.
The noomiest places nearby though are up the coast a little way, where there are the old tunnels related to the abandoned mines.
Further inland the old airfields in the vale of York are atmospheric too - e.g. you can wander around Skipwith common (and other similar sites) along the old runways and through the old munitions stores (earthworks still there).
The old kirk IIRC was (re)fitted out by shipwrights - allegedly - which influenced the woodwork design. Dunno if true. But also there is Captain Cook, and a nice museum on all topics including the local fossil reptiles, Captain Scoresby, etc. etc.
I also like the steam train to Pickering - hopping off early on the way back and walking down the original cable hauled incline route
Edit: some interesting industrial archaeology on the shore - old heaps of alum shale, some works on the shore for burning and transport. ISTR also railways cut into the shore rock ledges. I forget the details but they can be dug out on the net no doubt.
One thing about voting today. Pens not pencils were provided, which together with the instruction to fold each ballot paper *might* mean a transfer of wet ink from one candidate to another, and thus a spoiled vote.
Leave the poor officials and their pens alone, they are just trying to do the write thing.
Inflation under 2%, strong 2024 growth bouncing us out of recession and on path to further tax cuts, and interest rate and mortgage cuts too? On the hustings Sunak told Truss she was wrong and he could do it right, and has proved it by completely reversing the damage she caused.
Hope you don't mind me snipping this paragraph out. You appear to be suffering from the same hopium as HY is.
Inflation? How about interest rates? How about mortgages - you say "cuts" to rates but they have just gone *up* again. And a cut from the peak is still an increase - mine didn't go up as much as it could have done, but do you think I should be greatful to the Tories that my Truss Tax is *only* £170 a month?
Why are the Tories sinking so quickly? Because having put taxes up to their highest level they are telling people there has been a tax cut. Having opened the door to soaring levels of migration they're claiming they have cut it. Having put the price of *everything* up a lot they're saying they cut inflation.
I know that hopium gets you lot driving forward with "we can sell this" but in the real world the only thing you are selling is the determination to absolutely destroy this government. You cannot lie to people's faces and insist that their lived experience actually isn't what they experience daily. It just proves to more and more of them that you are utterly disconnected from reality and sanity.
John Major thinks that the better the economy is doing by the time of the general election, the better Labour will perform. Now, this is probably a distorted view on his part as he takes as his evidence that he won in 1992 when the economy was crap and lost heavily in 1997 when "Britain was booming", but the basis for him saying this is that people will more willingly vote for change, especially for a party perceived as spending more on nice things, if they feel the economy is not in danger. Otherwise they cling to the devil they know.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
I never had you down as a lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic. If nothing else, with apologies, I don't really consider Selby 'metropolitan'.
The penny has just dropped that Selebian means someone from Selby.
Selby's only about 10 miles east of me but it's somewhere I go very, very infrequently. I suppose because it's in a different county - the focus was always west to the bright lights of Pontefract and Wakefield and, if you're particularly fond of travelling to far flung exotic locales, that Leeds.
But I agree, I don't think Selby's particularly metropolitan.
That’s interesting to me as a non Englander. Is county identity so strong that it might discourage you from popping over to a nice pub across county lines? Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
I used to sail with a perpetually angry Yorkshireman whose credo was "Everyone from Lancashire is a bastard."
He did his nut when his Mrs crossed the county line to buy a TV so I am pretty confident he would not have frequented a Lancashire pub.
He was also a very gifted and industrious thief. He reckoned that even if he lived to be 100 he wouldn't use all of the batteries he had stolen from the Navy.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The fact the Brontës’ talented brother drank himself to death in that pub only adds to the Noom. Also the poisonously tiny shoes of Charlotte Brontë in the house. And they all died so absurdly young
It’s bleak as fuck and I love it. Bleakness leading to beauty is a sure source of Noom
Plus you’ve got all the lesbians down at Hebden Bridge
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
I never had you down as a lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic. If nothing else, with apologies, I don't really consider Selby 'metropolitan'.
The penny has just dropped that Selebian means someone from Selby.
Selby's only about 10 miles east of me but it's somewhere I go very, very infrequently. I suppose because it's in a different county - the focus was always west to the bright lights of Pontefract and Wakefield and, if you're particularly fond of travelling to far flung exotic locales, that Leeds.
But I agree, I don't think Selby's particularly metropolitan.
That’s interesting to me as a non Englander. Is county identity so strong that it might discourage you from popping over to a nice pub across county lines? Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
I used to sail with a perpetually angry Yorkshireman whose credo was "Everyone from Lancashire is a bastard."
He did his nut when his Mrs crossed the county line to buy a TV so I am pretty confident he would not have frequented a Lancashire pub.
He was also a very gifted and industrious thief. He reckoned that even if he lived to be 100 he wouldn't use all of the batteries he had stolen from the Navy.
I was late completing my postal vote today so handed it in at the polling station. I was therefore able to vote in person without voter ID.
And for anyone wondering which way to cast their vote today, here’s a bit of context for why your local council services have gone to shit. From the HoC library.
(Lucky Isles of Scilly)
[obviously this has no impact on council finances, oh no. The Tory government bears no responsibility at all. It’s all about equal pay claims]
And here for completeness is the funding curve from 2010 until 2018.
Sadly I can't vote in person as I'm about to board a flight for California but my lovely wife is doing a proxy vote for the brilliant Sadiq at the Telegraph Hill Centre today on my behalf. Good luck to all Labour candidates today.
Mine was at the Lewisham Arthouse. Always a good opportunity to snoop around quasi-civic buildings.
Church for me. The one we've just donated some neat little 'bonsai' type hedges to. So it'll be a vote for Sadiq, the great Labour candidate in this great Labour city, then a walk in the grounds to go look at them. Just hope the rain holds off.
Just want to shock everyone who has me down as a right-on lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic: I have not voted for and will not vote for Sadiq Khan in the London mayoral election
I never had you down as a lefty metropolitan liberal elite academic. If nothing else, with apologies, I don't really consider Selby 'metropolitan'.
The penny has just dropped that Selebian means someone from Selby.
Selby's only about 10 miles east of me but it's somewhere I go very, very infrequently. I suppose because it's in a different county - the focus was always west to the bright lights of Pontefract and Wakefield and, if you're particularly fond of travelling to far flung exotic locales, that Leeds.
But I agree, I don't think Selby's particularly metropolitan.
That’s interesting to me as a non Englander. Is county identity so strong that it might discourage you from popping over to a nice pub across county lines? Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
Oh no, not at all, nothing like that. Not for me anyway. Just better transport links to the west - I'm in the north east corner of West Yorkshire, so all of my county is to the west of me. When I was a teenager I had the timetables in my head of all the buses and trains that would get me to Pontefract, Wakefield and Leeds. Whereas it just wouldn't have entered my head to get on a bus or train to Selby. I suppose I could've got there but it never entered my head to try. My parents never went there shopping so I had no history going there.
Heading west from here is relatively urban. To get to Selby you're going through proper countryside. But there are nice country pubs out that way I go to now and again. My dad lives in one of the villages near Selby but he didn't move there until I was an adult and had left home.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Whitby? Yes, definitely, what was I thinking? Though it would have to be on a dark day in winter with the crows calling and an easterly wind for maximum atmosphere in the abbey. In high summer you'd again suffer from the crowds.
Goth weekend is amusing but doesn't leave much room for noom.
The old mines along the North Yorks Moors coast are a bit Cornish-like too.
Agree with Haworth and particularly Heptonstall. Nearby Top Withens requires a bit of an effort to get to though and of course has all the slightly creepy Wuthering Heights vibes, particularly on a misty day.
Mrs C. has just been to vote in the Police & Fire Commissioner election, which is all we have in the part of Essex. She was told they’d been ‘surprisingly busy’ ….. 36 voters by 11.30am. I’ve a postal vote, being confined to a wheelchair, so that went in a few days ago. Absolutely no material from any of the candidates or their parties. No Reform candidate, but an English Democrat.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The last time I was in Whitby was a few years ago on my birthday. Me and my wife had an argument over the car parking on arrival which led to silence for half the day with her walking several paces ahead of me. Also a bird shat on my fish and chips.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Indeed it is! There's the ruined abbey above the town, which has potential but tends to be a bit busy in season (quiet evening out of season it's got something). But there's an intact church at the top of the hill that certainly has something about it inside.
The noomiest places nearby though are up the coast a little way, where there are the old tunnels related to the abandoned mines.
Further inland the WW2 airfields in the vale of York are atmospheric too - e.g. you can wander around Skipwith common (and other similar sites) along the old runways and through the old munitions stores (earthworks still there).
I've been thinking about this too. In general, the noomiest places are in the west. But I had Whitby down as the Noomiest place in Yorkshire. My new book of Noom however has quite a few places in Yorkshire, many of which I've never been to.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The last time I was in Whitby was a few years ago on my birthday. Me and my wife had an argument over the car parking on arrival which led to silence for half the day with her walking several paces ahead of me. Also a bird shat on my fish and chips.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Indeed it is! There's the ruined abbey above the town, which has potential but tends to be a bit busy in season (quiet evening out of season it's got something). But there's an intact church at the top of the hill that certainly has something about it inside.
The noomiest places nearby though are up the coast a little way, where there are the old tunnels related to the abandoned mines.
Further inland the WW2 airfields in the vale of York are atmospheric too - e.g. you can wander around Skipwith common (and other similar sites) along the old runways and through the old munitions stores (earthworks still there).
I've been thinking about this too. In general, the noomiest places are in the west. But I had Whitby down as the Noomiest place in Yorkshire. My new book of Noom however has quite a few places in Yorkshire, many of which I've never been to.
Isn't Noom that company you pay a fortune to for them to tell you its someone else's fault you're fat?
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The last time I was in Whitby was a few years ago on my birthday. Me and my wife had an argument over the car parking on arrival which led to silence for half the day with her walking several paces ahead of me. Also a bird shat on my fish and chips.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The last time I was in Whitby was a few years ago on my birthday. Me and my wife had an argument over the car parking on arrival which led to silence for half the day with her walking several paces ahead of me. Also a bird shat on my fish and chips.
Someone I work with got an avian faeces bomb on their head this week. What with that and your anecdote that's given me two reasons this week to roll out this old belter:
Just been to vote. Huge queues at the polling station. Well, me and my dog. And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
I was going to ask how your dog voted, assuming s/he isn't a shy voter, but it looks like s/he was disenfranchised. I hope s/he is going to complain.
Taking the dog down to vote later, sadly he doesn't have a pet passport (thank you Brexit) and hasn't yet got his driving license (too young), so won't be able to vote. Will give it a go though.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The fact the Brontës’ talented brother drank himself to death in that pub only adds to the Noom. Also the poisonously tiny shoes of Charlotte Brontë in the house. And they all died so absurdly young
It’s bleak as fuck and I love it. Bleakness leading to beauty is a sure source of Noom
Plus you’ve got all the lesbians down at Hebden Bridge
World class nooming by Yorkshire there 👏
Noomiest in Yorkshire? All Saints North Street, York. Just yards off the tourist trail, step into an unbroken medieval culture in closeup, don't miss the Prick of Conscience window, 1420, if you are lucky in total solitude.
And Selby Abbey. Echoes of Durham but few if any people and surrounded by tat.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The fact the Brontës’ talented brother drank himself to death in that pub only adds to the Noom. Also the poisonously tiny shoes of Charlotte Brontë in the house. And they all died so absurdly young
It’s bleak as fuck and I love it. Bleakness leading to beauty is a sure source of Noom
Plus you’ve got all the lesbians down at Hebden Bridge
World class nooming by Yorkshire there 👏
Noomiest in Yorkshire? All Saints North Street, York. Just yards off the tourist trail, step into an unbroken medieval culture in closeup, don't miss the Prick of Conscience window, 1420, if you are lucky in total solitude.
And Selby Abbey. Echoes of Durham but few if any people and surrounded by tat.
Yes, Selby Abbey would be much more celebrated if it wasn't for York Minster just up the road.
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Whitby? Yes, definitely, what was I thinking? Though it would have to be on a dark day in winter with the crows calling and an easterly wind for maximum atmosphere in the abbey. In high summer you'd again suffer from the crowds.
Goth weekend is amusing but doesn't leave much room for noom.
The old mines along the North Yorks Moors coast are a bit Cornish-like too.
Agree with Haworth and particularly Heptonstall. Nearby Top Withens requires a bit of an effort to get to though and of course has all the slightly creepy Wuthering Heights vibes, particularly on a misty day.
Everyone admires the Brontes (I do too) but does anyone read them for fun?
Day before yesterday I went to Mont St Michel for the first time. Of course I compared it to St Michael’s Mount (the latter was actually a monastic satellite of the former for a while). I know the Cornish one really well, I once took tea with Lord and Lady St Levan, in the castle, and found it very hard not to mention Edward St Aubyn and his *interesting backstory*. But I managed it
Anyway the French version is much more impressive in several ways - it’s a lot bigger. It’s more architecturally harmonious and beautiful. It is imposing in a way the Cornish one is not
On the other hand the Cornish version is properly surrounded by tidal waters, and it has an even more interesting history - it’s probably the isle of Ictis mentioned by classical scholars as the tin trading island of the Phoenicians - Cornwall’s tin industry is at least 3000 years old
More importantly the Cornish one has a ton of noom and the French one has about zero (after your first gobsmacked initial approach). Why? The trillions of tourists don’t help at all, but also the French one has that classic french noomlessness. Someone rubbed away the patina. There is no mad aristocratic family with a known history of incestuous father rapists living in one of the towers
Voila, c’est sans Noom
I find something noomy about all our western islands. That 'end of the earth' feeling.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Is Whitby in Yorkshire? That always looks Noomy to be, but I’ve not been
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Howarth's graveyard is a gloomy place, with a profusion of infants and young children listed on the old gravestones. It's also at the top of a hill, and it's speculated that the regular supply of new corpses polluted the local water supply. Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
The last time I was in Whitby was a few years ago on my birthday. Me and my wife had an argument over the car parking on arrival which led to silence for half the day with her walking several paces ahead of me. Also a bird shat on my fish and chips.
Comments
The opinion polls for the London Assembly elections were pretty accurate last time compared to the result of 31% of the vote for the list portion. The only opinion poll from YouGov has the Tories second on 21% so, while fun, subsamples are not to be relied upon.
Huge queues at the polling station.
Well, me and my dog.
And they wouldn't accept the dog's pet passport as proof of his ID. No photo.
Perhaps its the age of the land, particularly in the Hebrides, where it seems at first sight that it has been like this for billions of years and the ancient inhabitants have only just gone.
Of course, that ignores the not so romantic reason why they have only just gone.
I'm trying to think of the noomiest place in Yorkshire but am finding it tricky. Fountains Abbey has too many visitors and too many cakes, like Mont St Michel, magnificent though it is.
I quite like the empty moors, so Top Withens could be a valid choice, although the Brontes weren't quite long enough ago.
If only there was more left of Thornborough Henges...
Living in a village I have known since the mid 70s, and where I have not seen a policeman for 20 years, and voting for a PCC I call to mind days I remember when a policeman lived in a police house in the village, as they did in many Cumbrian communities. Not mentioned in the manifestos!
For one thing you are breakfasting on just 1 poll from 1 firm. That’s not very clever is it. What happened to your five a day?
Whilst you are breakfasting, the huge elephant is still there in the room with “the fact of the matter is” sign held by its trunk right in your face: 26% lead is based on Labour stuck on around 43% in this poll going backwards - it’s created by 18% + 15% who have voted as a bloc in recent elections because they are very like minded. It won’t take months to bring this voter bloc back together, just weeks.
What’s the trigger that brings the bloc together?
Greater scrutiny on what Labour will actually do? This morning Labour can’t answer the question “everyone Rwanda Plan sends to Rwanda, are you bringing them back when you scrap it”. Calling something very real very happening a gimmick is now the gimmick position.
Inflation under 2%, strong 2024 growth bouncing us out of recession and on path to further tax cuts, and interest rate and mortgage cuts too? On the hustings Sunak told Truss she was wrong and he could do it right, and has proved it by completely reversing the damage she caused.
The fact GE is FPTP? UKIP done very well in every other election and opinion polls, but the bloc always comes together for the GE.
A deal? Round the table, here’s the deal, Con won’t stand in these 21 most winnable Reform seats, if Reform don’t stand in every other one. Farage, Tice, Lee can all sit together in what might be HoC 4th largest party. They will take that deal when Rishi offers it. And that puts the Tories on 36% in polls and just 6 behind Labour in about 36hrs.
Don’t listen to Stodge and Stu and everyone who tells you those Reform polling numbers are now opposition voters who won’t vote Tory. That concepts a fantasy.
Capturing it would give Russia control over a strategic hilltop, threatening key cities in eastern Ukraine's defenses.
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1785972674964984254
I’m not one for complaining but I am gutted! I spent 27 years in the Army and today I was going to vote in my local elections.
I was sadly turned away at the door as my Veteran ID was not allowed as formal ID.
https://twitter.com/AdamDiver2/status/1785942693350088770
BREAKING UCLA 🚨 : CHP Riot Police begin trying to break through protestor barrier, fights ensue, multiple injured.
NEW: Kate Forbes to give a statement later today. @SkyNews
Turnout was 2 million odd last time. Chances of a 1m/1,000,001 victory are 1/1m *1/1m. Multiply that by the range of possible turnouts which we will call 1.8m to 2.5m or 400000 and that gives you 1/5 * 1/1m. Which is low millions to one against. I think.
https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1785945934431490088?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
The odds of Hall winning are 29-1, which is probably about right. So multiply your figure by 29.
On topic: of the 10 or 11 people I saw there, two hadn't got proper ID. One, an elderly man, seemed quite embarrassed - but the other, a woman in her 60s, was doing a full-on "I want to speak to the manager" routine. From what I could gather, she was trying to use an outdated driving licence rather than a passport and she was very pissed off.
Out of date photo ID
You can still use your photo ID if it's out of date, as long as it looks like you.
The name on your ID should be the same name you used to register to vote.
For me the noomiest place in Yorkshire must be Haworth and Heptonstall, for the Brontë House and Sylvia Plath’s grave. Three of the greatest female writers in history, all packed together in that satanically beautiful scenery, with the weird gritstone houses and the austere moors everywhere, and the cascading waters over crags
Top notch Noom
The grave in particular is decidedly noomy, Ted Hughes chose well. The anonymity of it makes it all better
Yes, yes it is. Excellent fish and chips can be had there.
Agree that they should have accepted it, though - they have no way to verify or validate the ID, so the only useful thing they can do is check that the name matches the one on the electoral roll. From a voting integrity point of view, the photo adds nothing.
NHS is utterly screwed. You didn't say anything about that. And don't say "its had more than £350m a week" because it hasn't gone on front line care which is worse not better
Inflation? How about interest rates? How about mortgage rates? How about food prices? Are you really planning to go into the election telling people who know they are worse off that actually they are better off actually? Really?
Don’t think that would apply to say North and South Lanarkshire (for various reasons).
Inflation? How about interest rates? How about mortgages - you say "cuts" to rates but they have just gone *up* again. And a cut from the peak is still an increase - mine didn't go up as much as it could have done, but do you think I should be greatful to the Tories that my Truss Tax is *only* £170 a month?
Why are the Tories sinking so quickly? Because having put taxes up to their highest level they are telling people there has been a tax cut. Having opened the door to soaring levels of migration they're claiming they have cut it. Having put the price of *everything* up a lot they're saying they cut inflation.
I know that hopium gets you lot driving forward with "we can sell this" but in the real world the only thing you are selling is the determination to absolutely destroy this government. You cannot lie to people's faces and insist that their lived experience actually isn't what they experience daily. It just proves to more and more of them that you are utterly disconnected from reality and sanity.
Reform is polling about as well as UKIP in 2013-16. But, unlike UKIP, these votes are showing up nowhere in real elections.
Leaving aside the special cases of Clacton and Rochester, UKIP won 39% in Heywood & Middleton, 26% in Newark, 18% in Wythenshawe, 24% in South Shields, 28% in Eastleigh, 23% in Oldham West, during this period. They had about 600 councillors.
Reform's best showing in a by-election is 13%, and they hold 9 council seats.
Taking the dog down to vote later, sadly he doesn't have a pet passport (thank you Brexit) and hasn't yet got his driving license (too young), so won't be able to vote. Will give it a go though.
When I was on tinder I set the radius to 10 miles and was getting matched with people from places I’d never heard of
Not as if they can vote so no problem there ...
I always know when you're piqued because you go on and on and on about what you really meant.
8:40 is before 10:43 for anyone not a telling the time expert.
The noomiest places nearby though are up the coast a little way, where there are the old tunnels related to the abandoned mines.
Further inland the WW2 airfields in the vale of York are atmospheric too - e.g. you can wander around Skipwith common (and other similar sites) along the old runways and through the old munitions stores (earthworks still there).
Average life expectancy was somewhere in the mid twenties.
And you mention Whitby without noting Bram Stoker's little story ?
You can't really expect polling station workers to check it by eye.
https://www.animalwelfareparty.org/
But also there is Captain Cook, and a nice museum on all topics including the local fossil reptiles, Captain Scoresby, etc. etc.
I also like the steam train to Pickering - hopping off early on the way back and walking down the original cable hauled incline route
Edit: some interesting industrial archaeology on the shore - old heaps of alum shale, some works on the shore for burning and transport. ISTR also railways cut into the shore rock ledges. I forget the details but they can be dug out on the net no doubt.
He did his nut when his Mrs crossed the county line to buy a TV so I am pretty confident he would not have frequented a Lancashire pub.
He was also a very gifted and industrious thief. He reckoned that even if he lived to be 100 he wouldn't use all of the batteries he had stolen from the Navy.
It’s bleak as fuck and I love it. Bleakness leading to beauty is a sure source of Noom
Plus you’ve got all the lesbians down at Hebden Bridge
World class nooming by Yorkshire there 👏
Heading west from here is relatively urban. To get to Selby you're going through proper countryside. But there are nice country pubs out that way I go to now and again. My dad lives in one of the villages near Selby but he didn't move there until I was an adult and had left home.
Goth weekend is amusing but doesn't leave much room for noom.
The old mines along the North Yorks Moors coast are a bit Cornish-like too.
Agree with Haworth and particularly Heptonstall. Nearby Top Withens requires a bit of an effort to get to though and of course has all the slightly creepy Wuthering Heights vibes, particularly on a misty day.
Mrs C. has just been to vote in the Police & Fire Commissioner election, which is all we have in the part of Essex. She was told they’d been ‘surprisingly busy’ ….. 36 voters by 11.30am.
I’ve a postal vote, being confined to a wheelchair, so that went in a few days ago.
Absolutely no material from any of the candidates or their parties. No Reform candidate, but an English Democrat.
Not long to find out...
My new book of Noom however has quite a few places in Yorkshire, many of which I've never been to.
What should you do when a bird shits on your car?
Dump her.
Classic.
I almost forgot this morning and I’m politically aware and highly motivated.
It is shameful.
And Selby Abbey. Echoes of Durham but few if any people and surrounded by tat.