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An unpopularity contest – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    I look at Biden's approval ratings and I just don't see how he can win. Biden's ratings are worse even than Trump's were during Trump's term in office.

    If Haley was Biden's opponent he would almost certainly lose as Independents as well as Republicans would vote for her.

    Only Trump as his opponent gives him a chance of re election as Independents dislike Trump as much as Biden
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    What we have been seeing on RCP is a gradual narrowing of the lead held by Trump that reflected that unpopularity of Biden. Their "average" , which has a number of problems, shows a Trump lead that has shrunk from about 5% to 0.8% at the moment. Furthermore, if you look at the most recent polls, the trend looks set to continue and Biden will have a popular vote lead in the next week or so.

    I agree with @TSE that this narrowing reflects independents trending towards Biden. I think that Trump's many court cases and issues are driving that and we may well see that trend increase once his first trial starts on 15th April. We are increasingly unlikely to see the other trials before November as the procedural wrangling and incidental appeals go on but public perception of them will increase over time.

    I also think Biden has a lot to sell in terms of his economic record, abortion and acknowledgement of the rule of law. The American media is far more polarised than ours and the preponderance has really failed to recognise that the US has done very well over Biden's term. On the other hand, like most western governments, he has a problem with immigration.

    Biden will have to deal,with the debt as well. Sooner or later.
    You mean the U.S. will.
    Biden at least has an economic strategy. Trump just wants tax cuts for the rich.
    LOL

    Biden is just bankrupting the states and you call it a strategy, Xi and Vlad should just buy some popcorn.
    I disagree with your prospectus re; Biden, but on the other hand you are cheering to the rafters this Government's unfunded tax/ni cuts.
    Whar nonsense. You wont find a post where Ive said that, its just the usual dullard post where you cant imagine anything beyond a two party system. Go get a life man.
    Affronted abuse at my partisanship from a fellow partisan.

    Biden has been a way better President than Trump in pretty much every department.
    Youre a party animal Im not, Ill leave you to letting others do your thinking for you.

    As for Biden v Trump neither is particularly inspiring nor have they addressed the US problems. Both parties need a refresh and should start with candidates 20 years younger,
    After you have learned how to use an apostrophe you might want to check my party political credentials. It will be a swift venture because that cupboard is bare.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    If the majority were for Yousaf and Rowling, but Yousaf got more, that only guarantees Yousaf got just over 25% of the complaints.
    and your point is caller, it remains that the majority were for the idiot who thought up the stupid idea.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    What we have been seeing on RCP is a gradual narrowing of the lead held by Trump that reflected that unpopularity of Biden. Their "average" , which has a number of problems, shows a Trump lead that has shrunk from about 5% to 0.8% at the moment. Furthermore, if you look at the most recent polls, the trend looks set to continue and Biden will have a popular vote lead in the next week or so.

    I agree with @TSE that this narrowing reflects independents trending towards Biden. I think that Trump's many court cases and issues are driving that and we may well see that trend increase once his first trial starts on 15th April. We are increasingly unlikely to see the other trials before November as the procedural wrangling and incidental appeals go on but public perception of them will increase over time.

    I also think Biden has a lot to sell in terms of his economic record, abortion and acknowledgement of the rule of law. The American media is far more polarised than ours and the preponderance has really failed to recognise that the US has done very well over Biden's term. On the other hand, like most western governments, he has a problem with immigration.

    Biden will have to deal,with the debt as well. Sooner or later.
    You mean the U.S. will.
    Biden at least has an economic strategy. Trump just wants tax cuts for the rich.
    LOL

    Biden is just bankrupting the states and you call it a strategy, Xi and Vlad should just buy some popcorn.
    I disagree with your prospectus re; Biden, but on the other hand you are cheering to the rafters this Government's unfunded tax/ni cuts.
    Whar nonsense. You wont find a post where Ive said that, its just the usual dullard post where you cant imagine anything beyond a two party system. Go get a life man.
    Affronted abuse at my partisanship from a fellow partisan.

    Biden has been a way better President than Trump in pretty much every department.
    Youre a party animal Im not, Ill leave you to letting others do your thinking for you.

    As for Biden v Trump neither is particularly inspiring nor have they addressed the US problems. Both parties need a refresh and should start with candidates 20 years younger,
    After you have learned how to use an apostrophe you might want to check my party political credentials. It will be a swift venture because that cupboard is bare.
    Oh dear reduced to pedantry. I guess youre a rule taker whereas I make my own.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Very interesting header. It does seem like the MAGA extremists are taking The Handmaid's Tale as a manifesto rather than a warning.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    And lovely to see so many non-binary, trans, gender queer people around London including on the staff at the Royal Opera House.

    Screw the anti-woke gammons.

    Rubbing the Right's nose in diversity worked so well last time.

    We Brexited.
    The right are rubbing their own noses in it at the moment for some reason.


    Hence Cleverly introduced the £37k wage requirement for new migrants
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    Is there any case law/precedent on this?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic - I note Ukraine changed it's conscript age from 27 to 25. Had to check whether it meant lowering the maximum or minimum. Turns out it's lowering in sharp contrast to Israel where I think 27 would be an oldish soldier in the IDF.

    Interesting difference between the two nations tbh, most likely demographic driven.

    AIUI it has been settled Ukrainian policy to protect the younger generation, as these will be the people needed to rebuild the country when the war is over.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    If the majority were for Yousaf and Rowling, but Yousaf got more, that only guarantees Yousaf got just over 25% of the complaints.
    and your point is caller, it remains that the majority were for the idiot who thought up the stupid idea.
    Just for you gezou..........

    Iain.lawson27
    @ILawson27
    Just hearing that around 3000 people lodged complaints against Humza Yousaf’s “white” speech in the first twenty four hours of the HCA making him the No1 target of his own bill. I am informed these are all “reasonable” people so we can expect strong action by the police th
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    What we have been seeing on RCP is a gradual narrowing of the lead held by Trump that reflected that unpopularity of Biden. Their "average" , which has a number of problems, shows a Trump lead that has shrunk from about 5% to 0.8% at the moment. Furthermore, if you look at the most recent polls, the trend looks set to continue and Biden will have a popular vote lead in the next week or so.

    I agree with @TSE that this narrowing reflects independents trending towards Biden. I think that Trump's many court cases and issues are driving that and we may well see that trend increase once his first trial starts on 15th April. We are increasingly unlikely to see the other trials before November as the procedural wrangling and incidental appeals go on but public perception of them will increase over time.

    I also think Biden has a lot to sell in terms of his economic record, abortion and acknowledgement of the rule of law. The American media is far more polarised than ours and the preponderance has really failed to recognise that the US has done very well over Biden's term. On the other hand, like most western governments, he has a problem with immigration.

    Biden will have to deal,with the debt as well. Sooner or later.
    You mean the U.S. will.
    Biden at least has an economic strategy. Trump just wants tax cuts for the rich.
    LOL

    Biden is just bankrupting the states and you call it a strategy, Xi and Vlad should just buy some popcorn.
    I disagree with your prospectus re; Biden, but on the other hand you are cheering to the rafters this Government's unfunded tax/ni cuts.
    Whar nonsense. You wont find a post where Ive said that, its just the usual dullard post where you cant imagine anything beyond a two party system. Go get a life man.
    Affronted abuse at my partisanship from a fellow partisan.

    Biden has been a way better President than Trump in pretty much every department.
    Youre a party animal Im not, Ill leave you to letting others do your thinking for you.

    As for Biden v Trump neither is particularly inspiring nor have they addressed the US problems. Both parties need a refresh and should start with candidates 20 years younger,
    After you have learned how to use an apostrophe you might want to check my party political credentials. It will be a swift venture because that cupboard is bare.
    Oh dear reduced to pedantry. I guess youre a rule taker whereas I make my own.
    Not so much pedantry as a request for basic punctuation.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    What we have been seeing on RCP is a gradual narrowing of the lead held by Trump that reflected that unpopularity of Biden. Their "average" , which has a number of problems, shows a Trump lead that has shrunk from about 5% to 0.8% at the moment. Furthermore, if you look at the most recent polls, the trend looks set to continue and Biden will have a popular vote lead in the next week or so.

    I agree with @TSE that this narrowing reflects independents trending towards Biden. I think that Trump's many court cases and issues are driving that and we may well see that trend increase once his first trial starts on 15th April. We are increasingly unlikely to see the other trials before November as the procedural wrangling and incidental appeals go on but public perception of them will increase over time.

    I also think Biden has a lot to sell in terms of his economic record, abortion and acknowledgement of the rule of law. The American media is far more polarised than ours and the preponderance has really failed to recognise that the US has done very well over Biden's term. On the other hand, like most western governments, he has a problem with immigration.

    Biden will have to deal,with the debt as well. Sooner or later.
    You mean the U.S. will.
    Biden at least has an economic strategy. Trump just wants tax cuts for the rich.
    LOL

    Biden is just bankrupting the states and you call it a strategy, Xi and Vlad should just buy some popcorn.
    I disagree with your prospectus re; Biden, but on the other hand you are cheering to the rafters this Government's unfunded tax/ni cuts.
    Whar nonsense. You wont find a post where Ive said that, its just the usual dullard post where you cant imagine anything beyond a two party system. Go get a life man.
    Affronted abuse at my partisanship from a fellow partisan.

    Biden has been a way better President than Trump in pretty much every department.
    Youre a party animal Im not, Ill leave you to letting others do your thinking for you.

    As for Biden v Trump neither is particularly inspiring nor have they addressed the US problems. Both parties need a refresh and should start with candidates 20 years younger,
    After you have learned how to use an apostrophe you might want to check my party political credentials. It will be a swift venture because that cupboard is bare.
    Oh dear reduced to pedantry. I guess youre a rule taker whereas I make my own.
    Not so much pedantry as a request for basic punctuation.
    Unlikely to happen, Just ignore the posts.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    But I thought Brexit was shafting farmers with cheap foreign imports?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    The Wings over Scotland Opinion deals with this.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/#more-142127

    With the relevant passages being here:


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,311
    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    Yes if I read for the first time today and think it is a hate crime , surely under Useless's pig's ear of a law it is indeed a Hate Crime
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    ...

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    What we have been seeing on RCP is a gradual narrowing of the lead held by Trump that reflected that unpopularity of Biden. Their "average" , which has a number of problems, shows a Trump lead that has shrunk from about 5% to 0.8% at the moment. Furthermore, if you look at the most recent polls, the trend looks set to continue and Biden will have a popular vote lead in the next week or so.

    I agree with @TSE that this narrowing reflects independents trending towards Biden. I think that Trump's many court cases and issues are driving that and we may well see that trend increase once his first trial starts on 15th April. We are increasingly unlikely to see the other trials before November as the procedural wrangling and incidental appeals go on but public perception of them will increase over time.

    I also think Biden has a lot to sell in terms of his economic record, abortion and acknowledgement of the rule of law. The American media is far more polarised than ours and the preponderance has really failed to recognise that the US has done very well over Biden's term. On the other hand, like most western governments, he has a problem with immigration.

    Biden will have to deal,with the debt as well. Sooner or later.
    You mean the U.S. will.
    Biden at least has an economic strategy. Trump just wants tax cuts for the rich.
    LOL

    Biden is just bankrupting the states and you call it a strategy, Xi and Vlad should just buy some popcorn.
    I disagree with your prospectus re; Biden, but on the other hand you are cheering to the rafters this Government's unfunded tax/ni cuts.
    Whar nonsense. You wont find a post where Ive said that, its just the usual dullard post where you cant imagine anything beyond a two party system. Go get a life man.
    Affronted abuse at my partisanship from a fellow partisan.

    Biden has been a way better President than Trump in pretty much every department.
    Youre a party animal Im not, Ill leave you to letting others do your thinking for you.

    As for Biden v Trump neither is particularly inspiring nor have they addressed the US problems. Both parties need a refresh and should start with candidates 20 years younger,
    After you have learned how to use an apostrophe you might want to check my party political credentials. It will be a swift venture because that cupboard is bare.
    Oh dear reduced to pedantry. I guess youre a rule taker whereas I make my own.
    Not so much pedantry as a request for basic punctuation.
    Unlikely to happen, Just ignore the posts.
    Fair enough.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Cricket. County Championship starts tomorrow, 5th April. In 1971 the CC started on 1st May. It's good the climate has become so much more Mediterranean in the last 53 years. (Is New Road under water?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    tlg86 said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    But I thought Brexit was shafting farmers with cheap foreign imports?
    No, I think it's shafting them by making it harder for them to export their produce.

    Still, all those global free-trade deals will sort that no doubt.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    I don’t get the feeling that arguing hypothetical fine points of law is these people’s strong point, this is more their thing.


  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    Foxy said:

    Are the judges are possibly overstepping the mark when they interfere in political decisions.

    In America judges are political appointees. That's their system, and one that MAGA Republicans have enthusiastically used for their own agenda.

    Sauce for the goose and all that.
    Florida judges in trouble with DeSantis for allowing voters a say on abortion.

    Also in Nebraska the Trumpites trying to change the electoral college setup to nab a useful single electoral college vote from Biden.
    If they do, Maine can retaliate and negate the effect.
    Probably not in time even if they wanted to, but the Nebraska effort also likely to fail against the clock.
    One of the not-yet-dealt-with new scandals is nationwide bans on things (eg morning after pill) by District Judges in places like the Texas version of Hazzard County, and astroturf single issue campaign organisations created in such places.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overstimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    The Wings over Scotland Opinion deals with this.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/#more-142127

    With the relevant passages being here:


    Yes. Mr Dunlop KC and I are of one mind. Legally it may or may not apply to retrospective but still published actions. It is arguable both ways. Fortunately the police will probably have more sense than to waste their time on it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    tlg86 said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    But I thought Brexit was shafting farmers with cheap foreign imports?
    No, I think it's shafting them by making it harder for them to export their produce.

    Still, all those global free-trade deals will sort that no doubt.
    That's not what the news was saying last week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    HYUFD said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
    I don't think Trump will keep almost all of his 2020 vote. I think his support will tick away over the coming months - just a few points but enough so that he's trading as the clear outsider by the end of the summer.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overstimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
    Which football team do you support, Nick.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    HYUFD said:

    The Independent vote, much of which voted for Haley in the Republican primaries and which dislikes both Biden and Trump, will certainly be decisive in November.

    The outcomes of Trump's criminal cases will also have an impact as much as abortion. Remember too while Independents and the median US voters wants to keep abortion legal up to a time limit evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics, including some Hispanics, don't.

    Opposition to abortion might help Trump and the GOP therefore if it drives up evangelical turnout in the South and Bible belt in particular

    Support for abortion is increasing.

    Most Catholics support legal abortion: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ Most Hispanics support legal abortion too.

    There have been over 50,000 pregnancies resulting from rape in US states with abortion bans.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    TOPPING said:

    So, Gaza.

    Just kidding - what's this furore I'm hearing about potatoes.

    It's too wet to plant them so there's going to be a shortage.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Sounds good to make exports and imports more difficult? What happened to Conservative pro business, pro trade?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited April 4


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overestimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
    'The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful' is probably worth creating a keyboard shortcut for, to avoid repetitive strain injury.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    Furthermore we are nowhere near 100% food security, and many items basic to the modern world cannot be produced here. Rice. Lemons. Bananas. Last winter has killed most of our spaghetti trees.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    The Wings over Scotland Opinion deals with this.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/#more-142127

    With the relevant passages being here:


    Yes. Mr Dunlop KC and I are of one mind. Legally it may or may not apply to retrospective but still published actions. It is arguable both ways. Fortunately the police will probably have more sense than to waste their time on it.
    I have no idea, meanwhile, of what's going on with "criminalized". Are they looking for a transatlantic readership.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    algarkirk said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    Furthermore we are nowhere near 100% food security, and many items basic to the modern world cannot be produced here. Rice. Lemons. Bananas. Last winter has killed most of our spaghetti trees.
    Looking at the fields outside, rice might be a possibility going forward.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overstimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
    Excellent, Nick. Sounds like the proposition served only to stiffen your integrity.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    The government said the fees would pay for "world-class border facilities".

    So we have to pay for border checks that are required to determine the fee that we need to pay to fund those border checks. Am I detecting a bit of circularity here?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    TOPPING said:

    So, Gaza.

    Just kidding - what's this furore I'm hearing about potatoes.

    It's a bit soggy so they are rotting in the fields, so price rises on the way.

    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/fresh/potato-prices-soar-as-poor-weather-affects-supply/688512.article#:~:text=He added the supply issues,been brought to market early.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited April 4
    kjh said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Sounds good to make exports and imports more difficult? What happened to Conservative pro business, pro trade?
    The Tories haven't always been pro free trade. Baldwin, Joseph Chamberlain, Derby and Lord Liverpool even Disraeli were at times protectionist and probably tariff. The Brexit vote partly revived the protectionist nationalist wing of the Conservatives.

    Only the Liberals and their
    predecessors the Whigs have
    always been pro free trade
    and now the LDs are the UK party most supporting
    return to the EEA and single
    market too. Indeed Churchill defected to the Liberals at one stage over support for free trade as the Peelites joined with the Whigs after the Tories opposed repeal of the Corn Laws
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    edited April 4

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    The government said the fees would pay for "world-class border facilities".

    So we have to pay for border checks that are required to determine the fee that we need to pay to fund those border checks. Am I detecting a bit of circularity here?
    Do not throw stones at this sign.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited April 4

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Brexit is a pile of poo, everybody knows it now.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    kjh said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Sounds good to make exports and imports more difficult? What happened to Conservative pro business, pro trade?
    You may not have noticed this government is not pro business. Nor will Starmers be.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    kjh said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Sounds good to make exports and imports more difficult? What happened to Conservative pro business, pro trade?
    You may not have noticed this government is not pro business. Nor will Starmers be.
    I think we realised the Tories weren't pro-business when they became pro-Brexit.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    TOPPING said:

    So, Gaza.

    Just kidding - what's this furore I'm hearing about potatoes.

    It's too wet to plant them so there's going to be a shortage.
    We have planted ours. I plan to auction them in July or August. I am hoping for a minimum of £10 per tattie.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    kinabalu said:


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overstimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
    Excellent, Nick. Sounds like the proposition served only to stiffen your integrity.
    Yes, well done Nick - important to stand up to that sort of thing.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited April 4
    algarkirk said:

    Cricket. County Championship starts tomorrow, 5th April. In 1971 the CC started on 1st May. It's good the climate has become so much more Mediterranean in the last 53 years. (Is New Road under water?)

    Worcestershire are due to play their first home game of the season on April 19th-22nd at Chester Road North, Kidderminster.

    First game at New Road is scheduled for May 24th-27th, so there's some time to dry things out. Ominously, the New Road webcam isn't currently working, so I can't say how deep the water over the ground is currently.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point is Brexit has been an utter failure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    Proper passports look like this



    None of this new fangled rubbish
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    I've had no problems at all getting anything I need.

    There is a #FBPE contingent that likes to go in just before closing at 10pm on a Friday night and photograph the shelves that are yet to be restocked overnight, but we ignore them.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    There will be myriad opportunities for anti Brexit parties such as the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid to produce election literature such as pictures of empty supermarket shelves with the caption “Another Brexit Benefit “. Labour, of course, will be too frit to do anything as controversial.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    kjh said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Sounds good to make exports and imports more difficult? What happened to Conservative pro business, pro trade?
    You may not have noticed this government is not pro business. Nor will Starmers be.
    What business like is stability. What the Tories have not delivered is stability. Starmer will provide more stability.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Can I just say I'm rather impressed by HMPO? Within 8 days of me having a digital photo taken locally, and then applying online, and then posting off my old passport, I got my new blue passport a few weeks back!

    I is blessed!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Except the Singapore-on-Thames types aren't happy either- see that "if we're too cowardly to Brexit Properly, we might as well rejoin" piece in the Telegraph earlier this week. After all, they're not much closer to their Nirvana, despite Sunak being PM.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    HYUFD said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
    Trump increased his vote share in 2020, from 46.1% in 2016 to 46.8% in 2020. Even after another four years of him showing the US public what a reprehensible, self-interested embarrassment of a man he was.

    I do not share the certainty that some have that now, finally, Trump voters will have seen the light and will stop voting for him. With Biden being a much weaker candidate this time than last, Trump might even increase his vote share again.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point is Brexit has been an utter failure.
    Really, how ?

    Personally Ive noticed no difference in what is in my shops or on the ability to procure materials for the businesses I have run.

    I am currently working in Germany and they have more problems than we have at this point in time.

    Youre too much a little englander, you need to look outside these borders.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point is Brexit has been an utter failure.
    And yet, have you seen the state of the EU? It's not exactly a bed of roses over there either (though I'm sure the reports we get are no less cherry picked than the reports of British travails.) With every year that passes my certainty that we are better off out increases.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    At least one of the Brit aid workers ‘accidentally’ taken out by the IDF had a blue/black passport, somewhat battered and blood stained in the photo.
    In the old days possession of such a passport would have merited a gunboat in response to a severe blowing up, now it’s a toothless verbal mauling by Rishi.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited April 4

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    There will be myriad opportunities for anti Brexit parties such as the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid to produce election literature such as pictures of empty supermarket shelves with the caption “Another Brexit Benefit “. Labour, of course, will be too frit to do anything as controversial.
    Indeed, every party that has no plans to run the UK government and doesn't need about 14,000,000 votes to do so can do this. Labour, to win, requires a complex coalition of voters and appear, rather than being 'frit', to be the only outfit in the UK able and willing and courageous enough to take it on.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    HYUFD said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
    Trump increased his vote share in 2020, from 46.1% in 2016 to 46.8% in 2020. Even after another four years of him showing the US public what a reprehensible, self-interested embarrassment of a man he was.

    I do not share the certainty that some have that now, finally, Trump voters will have seen the light and will stop voting for him. With Biden being a much weaker candidate this time than last, Trump might even increase his vote share again.
    The 2020 vote was before the insurrection and indictments. Presidents get to look presidential, so he had that going for him too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    I've had no problems at all getting anything I need.

    There is a #FBPE contingent that likes to go in just before closing at 10pm on a Friday night and photograph the shelves that are yet to be restocked overnight, but we ignore them.
    IIRC there has been a change in the way supermarkets stock the shelves. In order to reduce costs and wastage, they deliberately run the fresh stuff down to the end of day.

    So you see this cycle of full at the start of day, with gaps at the end of day.

    That certainly what I see in the ones nearby.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    Um tariffs exist so your over priced wine looks competitive compared to the Australian wine that is now €6 more expensive because of the tariffs that were applied to it.

    And when it comes to china and cars that tariff won’t be €6 it will be €10,000 and the Chinese cars will still be good value relative to the EU built versions
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, Gaza.

    Just kidding - what's this furore I'm hearing about potatoes.

    It's a bit soggy so they are rotting in the fields, so price rises on the way.

    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/fresh/potato-prices-soar-as-poor-weather-affects-supply/688512.article#:~:text=He added the supply issues,been brought to market early.
    There is a big sign up in our local chippy with an aerial photo of the UK parched after the heat wave in 2022, saying because of the dry weather the price of potatoes would increase. Some vegetables are never satisfied. Make your minds up, potatoes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213


    The headline oversells the Mail's story that MPs have been sent porn by email but even if we put aside the fear this is a spear-phishing attempt, let alone a honey trap, even the unsolicited pictures show the dangers of the pearl-clutching reaction to tractor porn. If every allegation leads to suspension then don't be surprised at opponents making mischief. Ask the ScotFeds ploughing through thousands of complaints about JK Rowling.

    At least a dozen MPs, their staff members and political journalists have been targeted in a sinister cyber honeytrap scandal.

    Parliamentary authorities are under pressure to investigate after a string of Westminster figures – including a serving minister – were sent flirtatious messages and naked pictures.

    Victims have voiced concerns that those behind the 'spear phishing' attacks seem to have intimate knowledge of their lives and movements and there are fears that a foreign state may be involved.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13269333/MPs-caught-naked-honeytrap-sex-sting-Calls-probe-amid-fears-dozens-including-serving-minister-compromised-spear-phishing-attacks-foreign-state-saw-Westminster-figures-sent-naked-pics-flirty-messages.html

    The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful victim-blaming. MPs haven't been "caught up" in a sex scandal on this occasion - they've been targeted, but the story doesn't cite a single MP who was caught.

    I've told the story here before of the email I had from a woman saying she'd like to work in my office "as I like powerful men", with an attachment. I didn't open it and forwarded it to IT security, who replied, poker-faced, that the attachment (which was indeed a scantily-clad woman) was harmless: "It is up to you what you do with it". I was tempted to reply to her "You sadly overestimate the power of backbenchers, ducky."
    'The Mail headline is pretty disgraceful' is probably worth creating a keyboard shortcut for, to avoid repetitive strain injury.
    A practice invented by old-style French compositors who would retain the letters of common phrases clipped together for frequent use. The clip was known as a cliché.
    Or have a stamp made up for common phrases/orders

    https://youtu.be/t4a7BrhlMTg?si=3FT0RwQXLaU0i6e7
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    There will be myriad opportunities for anti Brexit parties such as the Lib Dems, SNP and Plaid to produce election literature such as pictures of empty supermarket shelves with the caption “Another Brexit Benefit “. Labour, of course, will be too frit to do anything as controversial.
    Labour don’t need to do anything if the Lib Dems and others provide the don’t vote Tory reminders
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    At least one of the Brit aid workers ‘accidentally’ taken out by the IDF had a blue/black passport, somewhat battered and blood stained in the photo.
    In the old days possession of such a passport would have merited a gunboat in response to a severe blowing up, now it’s a toothless verbal mauling by Rishi.
    You appear to be advocating restarting the British Empire.

    Can I have India, please?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    At least one of the Brit aid workers ‘accidentally’ taken out by the IDF had a blue/black passport, somewhat battered and blood stained in the photo.
    In the old days possession of such a passport would have merited a gunboat in response to a severe blowing up, now it’s a toothless verbal mauling by Rishi.
    You appear to be advocating restarting the British Empire.

    Can I have India, please?
    No. We’ve decided you’d be better looking after Transpalestine.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

    You would have higher prices no matter what due to Covid and Putin. Personally I fly via Schipol to Hamburg every month and never face a long wait. As for supermarket stocking policies they change all the time. The selection of cheese at my local Waitrose has got better, lots of local artisan cheese. If cheese is your thing change supermarket.

    Your issue is you are stuck in the past. You lost a vote because you couldnt sell a positive view of the EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    The Independent vote, much of which voted for Haley in the Republican primaries and which dislikes both Biden and Trump, will certainly be decisive in November.

    The outcomes of Trump's criminal cases will also have an impact as much as abortion. Remember too while Independents and the median US voters wants to keep abortion legal up to a time limit evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics, including some Hispanics, don't.

    Opposition to abortion might help Trump and the GOP therefore if it drives up evangelical turnout in the South and Bible belt in particular

    Support for abortion is increasing.

    Most Catholics support legal abortion: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ Most Hispanics support legal abortion too.

    There have been over 50,000 pregnancies resulting from rape in US states with abortion bans.
    74% of white evangelicals and almost half of Catholics say abortion should be mostly illegal. So it will help the GOP with evangelical turnout, even if it turns off Independents
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    HYUFD said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
    Trump increased his vote share in 2020, from 46.1% in 2016 to 46.8% in 2020. Even after another four years of him showing the US public what a reprehensible, self-interested embarrassment of a man he was.

    I do not share the certainty that some have that now, finally, Trump voters will have seen the light and will stop voting for him. With Biden being a much weaker candidate this time than last, Trump might even increase his vote share again.
    The 2020 vote was before the insurrection and indictments. Presidents get to look presidential, so he had that going for him too.
    The insurrection was more than three years ago, and there have been plenty of indictments over a considerable period since then. If these were going to put off voters from Trump then we would see some evidence of this in the polls by now. We don't.

    And yet people here are confident that, any month now, something will happen and voters will - after nine years of the daily Trump show, of him showing very clearly who he is and what he's about - now, just you wait, now, they will finally turn away from Trump.

    I think you're filling yourself because you don't want to accept the evidence in front of you. Trump is heading for the White House.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

    You would have higher prices no matter what due to Covid and Putin. Personally I fly via Schipol to Hamburg every month and never face a long wait. As for supermarket stocking policies they change all the time. The selection of cheese at my local Waitrose has got better, lots of local artisan cheese. If cheese is your thing change supermarket.

    Your issue is you are stuck in the past. You lost a vote because you couldnt sell a positive view of the EU.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-musicians-eu-tour-b2407129.html
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Except the Singapore-on-Thames types aren't happy either- see that "if we're too cowardly to Brexit Properly, we might as well rejoin" piece in the Telegraph earlier this week. After all, they're not much closer to their Nirvana, despite Sunak being PM.
    We have disappointed them by failing to embrace the fully free life.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Sandpit said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
    It was very accurate as well as we saw during the attempted insurrection.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

    You would have higher prices no matter what due to Covid and Putin. Personally I fly via Schipol to Hamburg every month and never face a long wait. As for supermarket stocking policies they change all the time. The selection of cheese at my local Waitrose has got better, lots of local artisan cheese. If cheese is your thing change supermarket.

    Your issue is you are stuck in the past. You lost a vote because you couldnt sell a positive view of the EU.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-musicians-eu-tour-b2407129.html
    We can all play that game.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/day-hp-sauce-said-goodbye-12747580

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4919922.stm

    maybe the manufacturing guys werent convinced of the benefits of EU membership
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Sandpit said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
    It was very accurate as well as we saw during the attempted insurrection.
    It was an example of a politician actually 'telling it like it is' rather than using that phrase as cover for spreading lies and bigotry.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    At least one of the Brit aid workers ‘accidentally’ taken out by the IDF had a blue/black passport, somewhat battered and blood stained in the photo.
    In the old days possession of such a passport would have merited a gunboat in response to a severe blowing up, now it’s a toothless verbal mauling by Rishi.
    You appear to be advocating restarting the British Empire.

    Can I have India, please?
    Last night:

    TOPPING said:
    » show previous quotes
    "Where do you stand on the whole North America thing."

    And then I replied:

    "We should just reoccupy the whole lot , in order to:

    "STOP them playing football with their hands
    STOP them driving on the wrong side of the road
    STOP them being obsessed with guns
    STOP them mispronouncing words like "water"
    STOP them spelling words like "color", er, I mean "colour" incorrectly.

    "There!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Trump will still get almost all the 47% who voted for him in 2020 again. Biden however increased the Democrat vote to 51% from the 48% Hillary got in 2016, mainly by squeezing third party candidates, even if Trump got even more votes in 2020 than he had in 2016.

    So to win Biden needs to get almost all his 2020 voters to back him again
    Trump increased his vote share in 2020, from 46.1% in 2016 to 46.8% in 2020. Even after another four years of him showing the US public what a reprehensible, self-interested embarrassment of a man he was.

    I do not share the certainty that some have that now, finally, Trump voters will have seen the light and will stop voting for him. With Biden being a much weaker candidate this time than last, Trump might even increase his vote share again.
    Yes but provided Biden gets almost all the 51% who voted for him in 2020 he will be re elected, even if Trump gets 47-48% (though both will likely be down on 2020 as some will go for RFK Jr)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    Sandpit said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
    It was very accurate as well as we saw during the attempted insurrection.
    Curious mirror image of 2016 on this side of the Atlantic.

    Clinton had the facts on her side- she was clearly right about Trump and Trumpoids- but couldn't find the words to express that without getting people's backs up.

    Leave had the words- they painted a glorious word picture of the future out of the EU- but have proved utterly incapable of making it happen, except in the trivial sense of not being in the EU. Because the words weren't backed up by facts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Black surely?
    At least one of the Brit aid workers ‘accidentally’ taken out by the IDF had a blue/black passport, somewhat battered and blood stained in the photo.
    In the old days possession of such a passport would have merited a gunboat in response to a severe blowing up, now it’s a toothless verbal mauling by Rishi.
    You appear to be advocating restarting the British Empire.

    Can I have India, please?
    No. We’ve decided you’d be better looking after Transpalestine.
    Redo the Old Testament it is, then.

    Cone to think of it, my plan to fill in a large chunk of the Med *is* pedestrianising the sea....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
    It was very accurate as well as we saw during the attempted insurrection.
    It was an example of a politician actually 'telling it like it is' rather than using that phrase as cover for spreading lies and bigotry.
    It was also piss-poor politics. Whether or not Trump's coalition included a load of deplorables - it did and does - it was foolish in the extreme to seem to label the whole lot of them as such. 'Don't insult voters, even when they are being idiots' is a pretty good maxim for any politician to live by. Indeed, don't even insult their ideas: just take them apart - ridicule the logic, the assumptions, the lack of evidence, the magic thinking and so on (but even then, tie it to the political opponent), but never, ever insult the electorate.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Independent vote, much of which voted for Haley in the Republican primaries and which dislikes both Biden and Trump, will certainly be decisive in November.

    The outcomes of Trump's criminal cases will also have an impact as much as abortion. Remember too while Independents and the median US voters wants to keep abortion legal up to a time limit evangelicals and conservative Roman Catholics, including some Hispanics, don't.

    Opposition to abortion might help Trump and the GOP therefore if it drives up evangelical turnout in the South and Bible belt in particular

    Support for abortion is increasing.

    Most Catholics support legal abortion: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ Most Hispanics support legal abortion too.

    There have been over 50,000 pregnancies resulting from rape in US states with abortion bans.
    74% of white evangelicals and almost half of Catholics say abortion should be mostly illegal. So it will help the GOP with evangelical turnout, even if it turns off Independents
    In that survey, it’s only 42% of Catholics wanting abortion to be illegal. That survey’s a couple of years old and support for legal abortion has grown since then. That’s not really what I’d describe as “almost half”.

    Most Americans support legal abortion. In a democracy, that helps the party that supports legal abortion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Farmers wanted subsidies to continue but higher tariffs on EU food imports and no new free trade deals unless they could expand food exports more than new imports from that deal.

    Low paid sectors have also seen the highest post Brexit wage rises where they were most reliant on EU workers before. Most of those voters did get what they voted Leave for

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

    You would have higher prices no matter what due to Covid and Putin. Personally I fly via Schipol to Hamburg every month and never face a long wait. As for supermarket stocking policies they change all the time. The selection of cheese at my local Waitrose has got better, lots of local artisan cheese. If cheese is your thing change supermarket.

    Your issue is you are stuck in the past. You lost a vote because you couldnt sell a positive view of the EU.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-musicians-eu-tour-b2407129.html
    We can all play that game.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/day-hp-sauce-said-goodbye-12747580

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4919922.stm

    maybe the manufacturing guys werent convinced of the benefits of EU membership
    I am unclear how either of those demonstrate Brexit benefits.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    So our own farmers become more competitive and can increase their incomes and we cut back on food miles.

    Sounds good.
    Slapping charges on imports increases competitiveness?

    No wonder your grasp of economics is so slight.
    It's what the EU has done for the last 50 years. Maybe you hadnt noticed ?
    I had indeed noticed the benefits of being part of the larges single market in the world.

    Still, blue passports, eh. Rejoice!
    Yeah, ducking the point.
    The point being that Brexit has become a total sh*tshow for most people - higher prices, ridiculous passport queues at ports and airports, random customs charges on parcels from abroad, these are the things people experience every day. And the variety and quality of goods available in the UK has declined - the range of cheeses sold in my local supermarket is now much more limited than it was before Brexit, to take one example.

    And for what? What benefits can we see in our everyday lives? Or for the UK on the international stage? There are none.

    You would have higher prices no matter what due to Covid and Putin. Personally I fly via Schipol to Hamburg every month and never face a long wait. As for supermarket stocking policies they change all the time. The selection of cheese at my local Waitrose has got better, lots of local artisan cheese. If cheese is your thing change supermarket.

    Your issue is you are stuck in the past. You lost a vote because you couldnt sell a positive view of the EU.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-musicians-eu-tour-b2407129.html
    We can all play that game.

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/day-hp-sauce-said-goodbye-12747580

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4919922.stm

    maybe the manufacturing guys werent convinced of the benefits of EU membership
    I am unclear how either of those demonstrate Brexit benefits.
    They dont. They illustrate how EU membership had no particular benefits for us either.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Except the Singapore-on-Thames types aren't happy either- see that "if we're too cowardly to Brexit Properly, we might as well rejoin" piece in the Telegraph earlier this week. After all, they're not much closer to their Nirvana, despite Sunak being PM.
    We have disappointed them by failing to embrace the fully free life.
    The vote was close. There wasn't an enthusiastic majority for any available position in 2016. FOM undoubtedly tipped the balance to Brexit winning.

    For this to be a success by now the following needed to be in place:

    Net migration in the tens of thousands.
    A clear plan and large scale implementation already for social care, NHS, agriculture etc to be fully staffed from within the UK population going forward.

    And excellent communication of the direction of travel.

    It's an epic fail so far.
    And customs, too, to add to your list.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    HYUFD said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Farmers wanted subsidies to continue but higher tariffs on EU food imports and no new free trade deals unless they could expand food exports more than new imports from that deal.

    Low paid sectors have also seen the highest post Brexit wage rises where they were most reliant on EU workers before. Most of those voters did get what they voted Leave for

    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/
    Polling shows the main reason people voted Leave was immigration and sovereignty: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/other-publication/peoples-stated-reasons-for-voting-leave-or-remain/

    Certainly, on immigration, Leave voters didn’t get what they wanted. Immigration is substantially higher.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited April 4

    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    I see it is going well for Useless, seemingly 3000 of the 4000 Hate Crime incidents lodged on the first day were for Humza Useless himself.

    "A police source told The Scottish Sun the majority of these focused on the First Minister and the Harry Potter author. They added, however, that Mr Yousaf had received more complaints under the new act than Ms Rowling."

    You’d think the morons would have checked if the Hate Crime legislation could be applied retrospectively (spoiler: it can’t), but they’ve obviously got lots of time, their own and others’, to waste.
    Agree, except for one point. In a digital age stuff stays. If I post last week something that was legal then and illegal now under the (bad) Scottish act, on a website where my content is under my control, it is possible to argue that continued appearance is a continuing act of publication, now in breach of the law.
    Is there any case law/precedent on this?
    The obvious (and potentially a lot more serious) one is the 16-year-old “Page 3” girls from the ‘80s and ‘90s, before they were outlawed by the Children Act which changed the minimum age to 18 for topless images.

    I expect that possession of yesterday’s newspaper doesn’t suddenly become a criminal offence, but also that such images were removed from online newspaper archives.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,742
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    More Brexit good news:

    Food price fears as Brexit import charges revealed

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

    'No downsides'.

    I was in the supermarket yesterday and is undoubtable that the range and shelf life of fresh food in particular has declined dramatically since leaving the single market. Disgruntled Brits continue to post pics on twitter of shelves groaning under bounteous fresh fruit and veg in the EU but my supermarket - at the heart of the transport network and thus presumably better off in terms of logistics than more distant stores, resembles a wasteland.

    I know the last bastion of Brexiters is 'well, it's all worth it because we have glorious sovereignty', but, for the millionth time, Brexit was sold as painless. Only considerable upsides. It's abundantly clear that simply isn't, could never be, the case.

    Not even Rees-Mogg could find any real Brexit benefits.

    I know the two main parties, and the media that pushed Leave so heavily, are keen to avoid all mention of Brexit, the costs it has imposed and the damage it is doing, for reasons, but this omerta cannot hold indefinitely.

    I've been saying for some time that Brexit would prove the ultimate Pyrrhic victory for the Conservative Party, and it seems that it is coming to pass. It's still tearing the party apart. I think it is a significant part of why the Tories are polling so badly. I think people have drawn their own conclusions that Brexit is making everything worse - it is like a poisonous catalyst. There's an article in the Guardian today saying farmers are calling for a UBI for their sector because they cannot survive without EU subsidies.

    I'm sure the Singapore-on-Thames types are sanguine about all this, but they are only a relatively small part of the populace.
    Except the Singapore-on-Thames types aren't happy either- see that "if we're too cowardly to Brexit Properly, we might as well rejoin" piece in the Telegraph earlier this week. After all, they're not much closer to their Nirvana, despite Sunak being PM.
    We have disappointed them by failing to embrace the fully free life.
    The vote was close. There wasn't an enthusiastic majority for any available position in 2016. FOM undoubtedly tipped the balance to Brexit winning.

    For this to be a success by now the following needed to be in place:

    Net migration in the tens of thousands.
    A clear plan and large scale implementation already for social care, NHS, agriculture etc to be fully staffed from within the UK population going forward.

    And excellent communication of the direction of travel.

    It's an epic fail so far.
    People don't want many of those jobs at the prevailing rate of pay. So if you want Brits to do them then you have to pay a lot more, which obviously impacts on prices, which in turn impacts on cost of living (or in the case of farms, would drive many out of growing what they do) - which people also don't want. The failure to join the dots together on these sort of questions has been a serious political failing of leadership, enabling too many of the public to indulge in the magic thinking that the likes of Reform promote.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "I long to destroy self-checkout machines – and at last, there’s a glimmer of hope
    Coco Khan"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/14/destroy-self-checkout-machines-supermarket-boycott
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    I’ve just had a Labour leaflet through my door, from our local London Assembly Member. All very positive, no attacks on other parties. No bar charts. Focused on issues actually covered by the Assembly’s remit: green spaces, investment in tubes and buses, affordable housing. Quite refreshing.

    She’ll win easily. She had a 7% majority over the Conservative last time.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see Hillary Clinton has lost none of her common touch:

    "In a separate development, Hillary Clinton, who lost the 2016 election to Trump despite winning the popular vote, told voters to “get over yourself” and vote for Biden instead of his challenger."


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-polls-trump-biden-wisconsin-results-qs0m2r887

    That right there is why Biden will lose.

    Voters who don't want to vote for Biden do not have to vote for Trump instead. They can not vote, or find a third-party candidate. It's what happened in 2016 when enough voters decided they didn't want to vote for Clinton, regardless of how awful Trump was.

    I see quite a few people who struggle to draw a distinction between Trump and Biden now. To younger, lefty voters they're both ancient, senile white guys who will support Israel to commit genocide.

    What about abortion you might say? Well, what has Biden done to provide access to abortion? People have suggested that he could have made abortion available in states where it is banned on Federal land, but that hasn't happened. In what way would a second Biden term improve access to abortion? These voters need convincing, and they aren't being offered anything at all.

    Biden in 2024 is a much weaker candidate than in 2020. Do we really think there are enough voters who thought Trump was good enough to vote for in 2020 who will have finally come to their senses in 2024?
    Hillary Clinton is demonstrating that she's learnt nothing and forgotten nothing.

    Biden is a better candidate than she was, but, that's not saying much.
    You have to say “Basket of Deplorables” was one of the most memorable political quotes of the last decade.

    Not in a good way for Mrs Clinton, but memorable nonetheless!
    It was very accurate as well as we saw during the attempted insurrection.
    It was an example of a politician actually 'telling it like it is' rather than using that phrase as cover for spreading lies and bigotry.
    It was also piss-poor politics. Whether or not Trump's coalition included a load of deplorables - it did and does - it was foolish in the extreme to seem to label the whole lot of them as such. 'Don't insult voters, even when they are being idiots' is a pretty good maxim for any politician to live by. Indeed, don't even insult their ideas: just take them apart - ridicule the logic, the assumptions, the lack of evidence, the magic thinking and so on (but even then, tie it to the political opponent), but never, ever insult the electorate.
    Fully agree, but the success of a Trump or a Johnson shows the limitations of doing politics by Queensbury rules. You can't ridicule the logic of a populist, because there isn't any. And magic thinking is what they sell. To point out that there is no magic is to be a doomster or a gloomster. And nobody wants that.

    Which isn't to say that HRC's remarks didn't make a bad situation worse. But I'm not sure what she could have done that would have worked. The Republican establishment haven't found anything in a decade. Biden is a much better natural politician than Clinton, H. and he's not finding it easy to take Trump apart.
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