That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
At this point the royals are just the kardashians. They should have their own reality tv programme and we should no longer fund them.
How much UK tax have you ever paid?
If he happens to be a Russian Oligarch enobled by Boris Johnson, I suspect he is exempt.
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
You know his surname is Windsor, right?
Er, Mountbatten-Windsor isn't it?
Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?
They self-identified some years back from Windsor to Windsor with the added Mountbatten. Not sure why. (The Windsor bit was invented in WW1, as was the Mountbatten bit, for the same reason as German biscuits became Belgian and then Empire biscuits. But those were quite separate at the time.)
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
No evidence for that at all and of course even if she did his children are Kate's too so George would still remain 2nd in line
Plenty of evidence - as the "truth" is so discredited you then have to start tugging at the edges to peer in.
As for William, lets play the scenario. If they remove him from the line of succession how can they keep in place the children spawned of that line?
Firstly they wouldn't remove him from succession on any scenario even if he did have a mistress, they certainly didn't remove Charles for doing so and of course his children would remain in line as the first wife's children take priority even if he remarried and had children.
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
No evidence for that at all and of course even if she did his children are Kate's too so George would still remain 2nd in line
Plenty of evidence - as the "truth" is so discredited you then have to start tugging at the edges to peer in.
As for William, lets play the scenario. If they remove him from the line of succession how can they keep in place the children spawned of that line?
I'm clearly missing something here but why would William be 'removed' for walking out with a Kate lookalike? Or indeed for having an affair and getting divorced? Are people not familiar with William's own (parental) family?
(But, FWIW, unless the children are illegitimate, it's easy enough to remove one person from the line of succession and keep their children in. The provision that excludes Catholics does exactly that).
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
There are many Xmas traditions, from different sources. But I’m not convinced by the argument that Xmas is “inherently secular”. There is a tradition of exaggerating its supposed pagan origins: e.g. see this video, https://youtu.be/mWgzjwy51kU
I'm pretty sure that Christmas in the UK is 99% a secular event (as defined by how many attend Christmas services at Church).
Which planet is this? In many villages and towns literally thousands pass through churches (and school halls and so on too) for nativity services, school Christmas services, carol services, all running from the end of November to Christmas. In my patch the local cattle mart is packed to the rafters for one such service. In one small city cathedral I know they have to run the same service four times in a row to fit all the people in. I agree with all the people who point out this isn't the same as Christian commitment, but neither is it secular.
I'm not sure, I go to several carol concerts each year and even sing in a choir at one of them but am an atheist. I just really like carols and Christmas, while not believing in God. I think there are a lot of people like me, also a lot of people who go because they're Christians, also a lot of people in various positions in between.
I believe that famous Christian Professor Richard Dawkins is rather fond of singing Christmas carols.
"The best of the sinners are those who repenteth often!"
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
It'd be a unique trick to pull off a landslide with such a low (Sub 39) approval rating.
I fully expect Biden's numbers to tick up - he will get some benefit from much better upcoming economic data that even Trump will be hard pressed to explain away. The feel-good factor is rising dramatically - and that is only going to benefit one candidate.
But I also expect Trump's numbers to take a hit. Partly because his shit-talking the US economy will play badly. Partly because his claims to be some business genius are falling apart before our eyes, after the fall-out from the New York civil fraud case. No-one in the world will put up a half-billion bond for the supposed multi-billionaire. It might yet happen, but the source will be very opaque - and feed into the narrative that he had been bought by a foreign power.
But mostly because every public appearance and utterance he makes shows just how demented he has become. He is clearly not coping well with his various woes. As he lashes out, he looks ever more petty and juvenile. Whilst Biden seems to be a reasonably-together mind trapped in a very frail body, Trump is losing cognitive ability by the month. His rally speeches are littered with errors, dead-end sentences, fluffed words... And when he does string a few words together, he goes into the mode that turns off independent voters. His Dayton, Ohio speech about a "bloodbath" if he doesn't win is but the latest.
Another interesting post, Mark. Thanks.
There's a big poll out that now shows it tied, Trump having lost his advantage.
Trump and Biden are tied in the general election matchup, with 43% support each, compared with a 1-percentage-point advantage for the presumptive Republican nominee last week. While Trump consistently led Biden during most of the first two months of 2024, the race has narrowed in recent weeks.
It is a bit troubling, however, to see that on a day when RCP still has Trump 1.7% ahead Biden led in 2020 by 6.7% and Clinton led by 8.7% in 2016.
The EMA (Exponential Moving Average) of national polls has Trump just 0.4% ahead. As the polls recently seem to have over estimated Republican actual results by 3-4%, that looks encouraging.
However when you look at the polling by state, it's much closer. If polls are over estimating Trump by more than 4% then Biden wins. If they are over estimating by less than 4%, then Trump wins. It is looking painfully tight at the moment.
The key states to watch are Georgia 16 seats (Trump 3% ahead), Arizona 11 seats (Trump 4% ahead), Pennsylvania 20 seats (Trump 4% ahead). I am watching them every day.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
Along with inherited custom - such as Christmas and Easter holiday seasons, the two things which could unite rather than divide society are liberalism and humanism. You can be a secular or religious humanist, and a secular or religious liberal. Secular and religious people who are liberal and humanist tend to get on fine, even when bashing each other up in their free speech inspired arguments.
Sure, but then we need to accept that customs change over time and there is no problem with that. I'm not Muslim, but if I'm expected to see very obvious Christian stuff all the time, I have no issue also seeing obviously Muslim or Jewish or Hindu stuff. I just feel that if you're going to be outraged at a train station quoting a hadith you should also hate "Merry Christmas".
Absolutely. I think this started at Kings Cross station, yards from where I once lived. Within a mile of that railway cathedral are quite a number of visible and obvious buildings called churches, impossible to avoid even to the eye that finds them offensive. I hope the snowflakes can cope with this.
Completely missing the point. As already discussed nobody is objecting to churches etc. The objection is to religious messages in non religious locations. Why the hell should a railway station be preaching religious messages to their customers.
I somewhat agree, will be interesting to see if the station has the same message for Happy Easter in a few weeks too, plus Diwali and Passover in time.
I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but there's a brilliant history website for Edinburgh, which looks at one house/tenement at a time and looks at some of the people who have lived there.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
Nah, Christmas is just a secular piss up and party holiday for most people. Nowt to do with God. I'd be stunned if more than 10% of people even attended midnight mass etc.
It doesn't matter if people celebrate it because of religion - it has the position it does in our society due to its religious significance. You can't say "no public displays of religion, please, except Christmas" because there is no coherent argument that can remove the significance we place in Christmas with the historical significance of Christianity to British culture.
Where I live all the pubs and bars close at 11 on the night before Good Friday, Good Friday and Easter Sunday as it’s a hangover (sorry) from more Christian times. Every year the spokesperson for the hospitality industry has a big whinge in the media about it saying it’s not fair that bars and clubs can’t be open late etc because it’s a period of public holidays.
What he clearly doesn’t get is that they wouldn’t be fucking bank holidays if it wasn’t for religion so it’s not entirely unfair that their should be a nod towards the more religious that it’s the most serious Christian holiday and so piss ups shouldn’t be the main priority.
He can’t see that they get a load of people out on the Thursday who are out because they have the day off the next day, people out lunching on the Friday because nobody is working and then people out all Sunday because they aren’t working on the Monday so getting loads more revenue thanks to the Christianity that he’s complaining about for cutting a couple of hours a night off .
What a weird place you must live in. None of that nonsense here.
You must be a youngster. This used to be de rigeur. At least in Scotland. My dad used to live next door to a bar. I recall the time I was working on his place one Good Friday morning when some chaps came along to the bar and found it closed till 1230 pm much to their confusion - they still didn't get it even when I pointed out the date ...
I remember it being a thing 20 years ago, before the massive overhaul of licensing laws (2002?) got rid of all that authoritarian nonsense.
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
No evidence for that at all and of course even if she did his children are Kate's too so George would still remain 2nd in line
Plenty of evidence - as the "truth" is so discredited you then have to start tugging at the edges to peer in.
As for William, lets play the scenario. If they remove him from the line of succession how can they keep in place the children spawned of that line?
I'm clearly missing something here but why would William be 'removed' for walking out with a Kate lookalike? Or indeed for having an affair and getting divorced? Are people not familiar with William's own (parental) family?
(But, FWIW, unless the children are illegitimate, it's easy enough to remove one person from the line of succession and keep their children in. The provision that excludes Catholics does exactly that).
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
No evidence for that at all and of course even if she did his children are Kate's too so George would still remain 2nd in line
Plenty of evidence - as the "truth" is so discredited you then have to start tugging at the edges to peer in.
As for William, lets play the scenario. If they remove him from the line of succession how can they keep in place the children spawned of that line?
I'm clearly missing something here but why would William be 'removed' for walking out with a Kate lookalike? Or indeed for having an affair and getting divorced? Are people not familiar with William's own (parental) family?
(But, FWIW, unless the children are illegitimate, it's easy enough to remove one person from the line of succession and keep their children in. The provision that excludes Catholics does exactly that).
Indeed, even Mary Tudor, daughter of Catherine of Aragon, took the throne before her half sister Elizabeth I, Anne Boleyn's daughter
Fun fact: his wife Sam Taylor-Wood is 23 years his senior – and met him when he was 18.
I read this as Anya Taylor-Joy.
She'd be a much better Bond.
Why would you have a woman play a male character? Makes no sense.
It was all the rage in Shakespeare's time to have men play female characters!
AIUI it was the law; women were not allowed on the stage.
But as it happens, I don't think there should be a female James Bond. I wouldn't mind a black or asian JB; it's just that JB's entire backstory and character is very masculine. You'd be better off creating a new female character and series, perhaps even set in the same universe as JB/SIS.
OK. Keep Bond as a male character, but just have Anya Taylor-Joy playing him.
I know you are on a wind-up.
But it would be better to have her play a well-crafted female character.
But it would murder our current estate and hatch suspension. My guess is people aren't generally driving along roads quite this bad - the way they're going though is probably leading to more people buying SUVs (Which create more). A vicious circle !
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
You know his surname is Windsor, right?
Er, Mountbatten-Windsor isn't it?
Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?
They self-identified some years back from Windsor to Windsor with the added Mountbatten. Not sure why. (The Windsor bit was invented in WW1, as was the Mountbatten bit, for the same reason as German biscuits became Belgian and then Empire biscuits. But those were quite separate at the time.)
The Queen was Windsor, a made-up name to hide Germanness. Prince Philip was Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark. His maternal grandfather was of Battenberg, and had Anglicised that to Mountbatten during WWI. So, Philip took Mountbatten as an English surname. Their kids then got both names.
Sounds as though the US isn't going bust next week.
BIDEN: "We have come to an agreement with Congressional leaders on a path forward for the remaining full-year funding bills. The House and Senate are now working to finalize a package that can quickly be brought to the floor, and I will sign it immediately." https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1770081321877954790
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
Why not? 1 She's dumped him 2 He is heir to the throne 3 If they debag him (and thus his children) then the heir apparent is Harry which means 4 Queen Meghan
So yes, he has judged that he can do basically what the fuck he likes with minimal consequences.
No evidence for that at all and of course even if she did his children are Kate's too so George would still remain 2nd in line
Plenty of evidence - as the "truth" is so discredited you then have to start tugging at the edges to peer in.
As for William, lets play the scenario. If they remove him from the line of succession how can they keep in place the children spawned of that line?
I'm clearly missing something here but why would William be 'removed' for walking out with a Kate lookalike? Or indeed for having an affair and getting divorced? Are people not familiar with William's own (parental) family?
(But, FWIW, unless the children are illegitimate, it's easy enough to remove one person from the line of succession and keep their children in. The provision that excludes Catholics does exactly that).
Indeed, even Mary Tudor, daughter of Catherine of Aragon, took the throne before her half sister Elizabeth I, Anne Boleyn's daughter
Fun fact: his wife Sam Taylor-Wood is 23 years his senior – and met him when he was 18.
I read this as Anya Taylor-Joy.
She'd be a much better Bond.
Why would you have a woman play a male character? Makes no sense.
It was all the rage in Shakespeare's time to have men play female characters!
AIUI it was the law; women were not allowed on the stage.
But as it happens, I don't think there should be a female James Bond. I wouldn't mind a black or asian JB; it's just that JB's entire backstory and character is very masculine. You'd be better off creating a new female character and series, perhaps even set in the same universe as JB/SIS.
OK. Keep Bond as a male character, but just have Anya Taylor-Joy playing him.
I know you are on a wind-up.
But it would be better to have her play a well-crafted female character.
Bond is tired and long due retirement. If they’re going to do anything with it, and they will because they want money, they might as well go a bit wild with it.
But it would murder our current estate and hatch suspension. My guess is people aren't generally driving along roads quite this bad - the way they're going though is probably leading to more people buying SUVs (Which create more). A vicious circle !
Sure, depending on how you define SUVs! The Q5, as I say, is an excellent 4x4 SUV and is similar in weight to a BMW 5 series estate!
Donald Trump is broke. He has no access to cash. He's been posting rants all morning. The kids won't have an inheritance. No billionaires are coming to his rescue. He is desperate; the family is desperate. And such desperation is a security risk. 1:25 PM · Mar 19, 2024 · 104K Views
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
There are many Xmas traditions, from different sources. But I’m not convinced by the argument that Xmas is “inherently secular”. There is a tradition of exaggerating its supposed pagan origins: e.g. see this video, https://youtu.be/mWgzjwy51kU
I'm pretty sure that Christmas in the UK is 99% a secular event (as defined by how many attend Christmas services at Church).
I contend that definition is poor. If someone thinks religious thoughts, has religious intent, as they celebrate Xmas, then I think that makes it a religious experience for them.
Also, Bart wasn’t arguing Xmas is just secular. He’s saying it’s *inherently* so.
Yes.
It's a secular holiday, with religious bits bolted on that you may or may not go with.
The early Church moved the birth of Christ to align it with the preexisting secular holidays.
The story of Jesus's birth didn't happen in December.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
Our oldest winter festival traditions you mean, Christmas by its very name involves Christ
The name is meaningless.
Otherwise I'm sure you'll agree Easter is a Pagan holiday, a translation of the Pagan goddess Eostre, celebrated in spring with bunnies etc, from where it got its name.
Are you sure you want to go off the name. Are you ready to relinquish Easter to Eostre?
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
You know his surname is Windsor, right?
Er, Mountbatten-Windsor isn't it?
Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?
They self-identified some years back from Windsor to Windsor with the added Mountbatten. Not sure why. (The Windsor bit was invented in WW1, as was the Mountbatten bit, for the same reason as German biscuits became Belgian and then Empire biscuits. But those were quite separate at the time.)
Prince Philip adopted the surname of Mountbatten (the anglicised version of his mother's maiden name of Battenburg) when he married the then Princess Elizabeth in 1947. In 1960 the late Queen decided that royal descendants who were not entitled to be addressed as Prince or Princess (which applies to children and grandchildren of the monarch) would use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.
And now this. Are the russians going to bail Trump out. With "conditions of course"
Definitely a connection between his financial plight and the recourse to Paul Manafort. He’s the channel to the wealth of the Russian oligarchs. 1:28 PM · Mar 19, 2024 · 1,409 Views
Fun fact: his wife Sam Taylor-Wood is 23 years his senior – and met him when he was 18.
I read this as Anya Taylor-Joy.
She'd be a much better Bond.
Why would you have a woman play a male character? Makes no sense.
It was all the rage in Shakespeare's time to have men play female characters!
AIUI it was the law; women were not allowed on the stage.
But as it happens, I don't think there should be a female James Bond. I wouldn't mind a black or asian JB; it's just that JB's entire backstory and character is very masculine. You'd be better off creating a new female character and series, perhaps even set in the same universe as JB/SIS.
Is this in light of the coverage of Idris Elba's eco city plans in Sierra Leone?
I hope so. It's very impressive and exactly the sort of experiment we need more of. Africa is lacking in regional or global entrepots, especially well functioning and well connected ones with large international populations and attracting inward investment. It only really has Djibouti, and at a push Mombasa port. Everywhere else is either very domestic and hard to trade with, or very focused on one industry, or lacking in infrastructure / political stability.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
There are many Xmas traditions, from different sources. But I’m not convinced by the argument that Xmas is “inherently secular”. There is a tradition of exaggerating its supposed pagan origins: e.g. see this video, https://youtu.be/mWgzjwy51kU
I'm pretty sure that Christmas in the UK is 99% a secular event (as defined by how many attend Christmas services at Church).
I contend that definition is poor. If someone thinks religious thoughts, has religious intent, as they celebrate Xmas, then I think that makes it a religious experience for them.
Also, Bart wasn’t arguing Xmas is just secular. He’s saying it’s *inherently* so.
Yes.
It's a secular holiday, with religious bits bolted on that you may or may not go with.
The early Church moved the birth of Christ to align it with the preexisting secular holidays.
The story of Jesus's birth didn't happen in December.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
Our oldest winter festival traditions you mean, Christmas by its very name involves Christ
The name is meaningless.
Otherwise I'm sure you'll agree Easter is a Pagan holiday, a translation of the Pagan goddess Eostre, celebrated in spring with bunnies etc, from where it got its name.
Are you sure you want to go off the name. Are you ready to relinquish Easter to Eostre?
Easter, in English, seems to get its name from Eostre, although the evidence for that is fairly weak. That doesn’t mean Easter as an event is a pagan holiday. Easter in most of Christendom isn’t called “Easter”, of course. Claims of Easter’s paganness are exaggerated: https://youtu.be/QW06pWHTeNk
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
I wouldn't call them secular. Pagans were definitely religious rather than secular. And it's not unusual for new religions to incorporate elements of existing religions. You'd probably be able to get ChatGPT to create a new religion for you, they're so derivative.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
Pre-Christian ≠ secular.
Fair point.
But since we've kept the tradition but stripped all the original religion out of it, it's now inherently secular.
Unless you wish to revert to celebrating pagan gods.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
Pre-Christian ≠ secular.
Fair point.
But since we've kept the tradition but stripped all the original religion out of it, it's now inherently secular.
Unless you wish to revert to celebrating pagan gods.
That's like saying that the Hagia Sophia Grand Mosque is now inherently secular because it used to be a church but they've stripped all the original religion out of it.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
Along with inherited custom - such as Christmas and Easter holiday seasons, the two things which could unite rather than divide society are liberalism and humanism. You can be a secular or religious humanist, and a secular or religious liberal. Secular and religious people who are liberal and humanist tend to get on fine, even when bashing each other up in their free speech inspired arguments.
Sure, but then we need to accept that customs change over time and there is no problem with that. I'm not Muslim, but if I'm expected to see very obvious Christian stuff all the time, I have no issue also seeing obviously Muslim or Jewish or Hindu stuff. I just feel that if you're going to be outraged at a train station quoting a hadith you should also hate "Merry Christmas".
Absolutely. I think this started at Kings Cross station, yards from where I once lived. Within a mile of that railway cathedral are quite a number of visible and obvious buildings called churches, impossible to avoid even to the eye that finds them offensive. I hope the snowflakes can cope with this.
Completely missing the point. As already discussed nobody is objecting to churches etc. The objection is to religious messages in non religious locations. Why the hell should a railway station be preaching religious messages to their customers.
I notice a lot of people at railway stations praying that their train won't be cancelled.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
Just because Easter is the word chosen in English doesn’t mean that all countries are bolting a religious holiday to a pagan foundation. The French, for example, Call it Pâques which derives from Latin and Greek origins, essentially “food” and is the breaking of Lent (similar to all Romance languages, and most other Non-Slavic European languages) so your argument is slightly shaky as “the Church” wasn’t English and so our adoption of Easter is irrelevant.
Secondly whether or not the Christian holidays have been bolted onto traditionally Pagan dates is also irrelevant. We only celebrate now, and so have new or old traditions and days off because they are Christian Holidays.
We do not celebrate pagan holidays officially in the UK. These holidays are mandated national holidays purely by virtue of their links with Christian belief so they are not secular but secular people can attach their own meaning and traditions to them.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
But sure, both sides.
Isn't the Prince of Wales rumoured to have entered a neighbour? And the former Prince of Wales before him, of course
But with consent, if the rumours are true. And none of the other stuff, in recent times at least.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
Pre-Christian ≠ secular.
We should just burn somebody in a wicker man at the winter solstice and have done with it.
Fun for all the family, and if we make the person who gets burned in the wicker man the subject of a public vote, PB could have months of fun working out whether FPTP or AV would deliver a fairer pagan sacrifice.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
Along with inherited custom - such as Christmas and Easter holiday seasons, the two things which could unite rather than divide society are liberalism and humanism. You can be a secular or religious humanist, and a secular or religious liberal. Secular and religious people who are liberal and humanist tend to get on fine, even when bashing each other up in their free speech inspired arguments.
Sure, but then we need to accept that customs change over time and there is no problem with that. I'm not Muslim, but if I'm expected to see very obvious Christian stuff all the time, I have no issue also seeing obviously Muslim or Jewish or Hindu stuff. I just feel that if you're going to be outraged at a train station quoting a hadith you should also hate "Merry Christmas".
Absolutely. I think this started at Kings Cross station, yards from where I once lived. Within a mile of that railway cathedral are quite a number of visible and obvious buildings called churches, impossible to avoid even to the eye that finds them offensive. I hope the snowflakes can cope with this.
Completely missing the point. As already discussed nobody is objecting to churches etc. The objection is to religious messages in non religious locations. Why the hell should a railway station be preaching religious messages to their customers.
I notice a lot of people at railway stations praying that their train won't be cancelled.
Donald Trump is broke. He has no access to cash. He's been posting rants all morning. The kids won't have an inheritance. No billionaires are coming to his rescue. He is desperate; the family is desperate. And such desperation is a security risk. 1:25 PM · Mar 19, 2024 · 104K Views
As referenced in my earlier post - we almost certainly won't know who is behind any half-billion plus cash payment to allow the appeal to go ahead. But the voters can make their own minds up - and judge whether President Trump will be required to payback the favour, somehow, some time.
Probably safest not to give him the chance, eh voters?
(And in any event, the appeal will very likely fail to do anything other than reduce the fine a smidgeon. Not by enough to save his crashing empire. )
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
You know his surname is Windsor, right?
Er, Mountbatten-Windsor isn't it?
Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?
They self-identified some years back from Windsor to Windsor with the added Mountbatten. Not sure why. (The Windsor bit was invented in WW1, as was the Mountbatten bit, for the same reason as German biscuits became Belgian and then Empire biscuits. But those were quite separate at the time.)
Prince Philip adopted the surname of Mountbatten (the anglicised version of his mother's maiden name of Battenburg) when he married the then Princess Elizabeth in 1947. In 1960 the late Queen decided that royal descendants who were not entitled to be addressed as Prince or Princess (which applies to children and grandchildren of the monarch) would use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.
Otherwise we would have Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg?
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
17th October means parliament prorogues no later than 12th September. They'll want an "autumn" statement first in the week before. Which the treasury will need to prepare over the summer which will of course leak out. They'll also want to cancel party conference and try to save some money. And talking about savings, not a penny of the AS bribe will hit people's pay before the election.
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
But sure, both sides.
"The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands."
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
Donald Trump is broke. He has no access to cash. He's been posting rants all morning. The kids won't have an inheritance. No billionaires are coming to his rescue. He is desperate; the family is desperate. And such desperation is a security risk. 1:25 PM · Mar 19, 2024 · 104K Views
As referenced in my earlier post - we almost certainly won't know who is behind any half-billion plus cash payment to allow the appeal to go ahead. But the voters can make their own minds up - and judge whether President Trump will be required to payback the favour, somehow, some time.
Probably safest not to give him the chance, eh voters?
(And in any event, the appeal will very likely fail to do anything other than reduce the fine a smidgeon. Not by enough to save his crashing empire. )
Wouldn’t it have to go through AML checks and source of funds and so is anything dodgy it will be refused.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
But sure, both sides.
"The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands."
Well, not recently.
Excluding Lady Di, of course.
Did she do all that? She must have had a darker side to her than I was led to believe!
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
And now this. Are the russians going to bail Trump out. With "conditions of course"
Definitely a connection between his financial plight and the recourse to Paul Manafort. He’s the channel to the wealth of the Russian oligarchs. 1:28 PM · Mar 19, 2024 · 1,409 Views
Damn, I wish Sunak would just call an election. I don't know whether I can really spend the next 7-9 months plus speculating on Royal trivia/intrigue/nonsense. Need some proper politics to think about
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
17th October means parliament prorogues no later than 12th September. They'll want an "autumn" statement first in the week before. Which the treasury will need to prepare over the summer which will of course leak out. They'll also want to cancel party conference and try to save some money. And talking about savings, not a penny of the AS bribe will hit people's pay before the election.
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
This is great copy for all of the newspapers. You can make the case for pretty much any date - none are any better than the others - and it fills the column inches. And there are plenty of people eager to find out when the election date is, so who will lap up every bit of speculation.
The country could spent six months on a detailed and vigorous debate on the state of the nation, its prospects, and how best to improve them. Looks like Britain will get six months of empty discussion about the timing of the election.
Fun fact: his wife Sam Taylor-Wood is 23 years his senior – and met him when he was 18.
I read this as Anya Taylor-Joy.
She'd be a much better Bond.
Why would you have a woman play a male character? Makes no sense.
Well, they did have a black woman play 007. For about 10 minutes. It came across as really patronising tokenism.
Yes, although as this pedanticbetting.com, I should point out that she was not playing James Bond, she was playing another agent who had (temporarily, as it transpired) been assigned Bond's call sign.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
But sure, both sides.
"The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands."
Well, not recently.
Excluding Lady Di, of course.
Did she do all that? She must have had a darker side to her than I was led to believe!
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
17th October means parliament prorogues no later than 12th September. They'll want an "autumn" statement first in the week before. Which the treasury will need to prepare over the summer which will of course leak out. They'll also want to cancel party conference and try to save some money. And talking about savings, not a penny of the AS bribe will hit people's pay before the election.
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
This is great copy for all of the newspapers. You can make the case for pretty much any date - none are any better than the others - and it fills the column inches. And there are plenty of people eager to find out when the election date is, so who will lap up every bit of speculation.
The country could spent six months on a detailed and vigorous debate on the state of the nation, its prospects, and how best to improve them. Looks like Britain will get six months of empty discussion about the timing of the election.
Regardless, I am out of the country 12-19th October. I remain pretty confident that I won't be abroad on polling day.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
"David Lloyd George, former British Prime Minister, speaks in House of Commons: "Our help is always too late. Too late for Czechoslovakia, for Poland, now for Finland. We never save them.""
Indeed. Putin looking very confident and chipper at present.
Which Putin?
Always rumours of Putin having a body double. Buth then social media rumours about Kate having a body double too. The world is a strange place and claims of one side to have moral superiority dont always stack up.
The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands.
But sure, both sides.
"The Royal Family, for all their faults, tend not to have people chucked out of windows, or poisoned, or invade neighbours and murder tens of thousands."
Well, not recently.
Excluding Lady Di, of course.
Indeed strange things can happen in tunnels and emergency services can take their time getting people to hospital.
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
17th October means parliament prorogues no later than 12th September. They'll want an "autumn" statement first in the week before. Which the treasury will need to prepare over the summer which will of course leak out. They'll also want to cancel party conference and try to save some money. And talking about savings, not a penny of the AS bribe will hit people's pay before the election.
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
This is great copy for all of the newspapers. You can make the case for pretty much any date - none are any better than the others - and it fills the column inches. And there are plenty of people eager to find out when the election date is, so who will lap up every bit of speculation.
The country could spent six months on a detailed and vigorous debate on the state of the nation, its prospects, and how best to improve them. Looks like Britain will get six months of empty discussion about the timing of the election.
Regardless, I am out of the country 12-19th October. I remain pretty confident that I won't be abroad on polling day.
I make it that there are eleven possible polling dates before Christmas with dissolution after the summer recess. So even if they're equally likely it would only be a one in eleven chance.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Sure, but the timing of Xmas and Easter is strikingly similar to pagan festivals of rebirth - the winter solstice and Spring, specifically. Hence eggs, bunnies, holly, ivy and evergreen trees and so on, clearly non-Christian symbolism, being intertwined with the Christian aspects.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Sure, but the timing of Xmas and Easter is strikingly similar to pagan festivals of rebirth - the winter solstice and Spring, specifically. Hence eggs, bunnies, holly, ivy and evergreen trees and so on, clearly non-Christian symbolism, being intertwined with the Christian aspects.
Precisely.
Realistically both Easter and Christmas are both secular and religious holidays.
Religious celebrating the Biblical elements, crucifixion, birth, immaculate conception, nativity etc Secular celebrating the festive elements. Chocolate, bunnies, trees, holly, presents etc.
Indeed one thing I think many Christians would agree with me on is saying that we can divide the two by saying that Christmas is the more important secular holiday, while Easter is the more important religious one.
Which is why it's rather ironic that Christmas has the Christian name while Easter maintains its Pagan name.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
Our oldest winter festival traditions you mean, Christmas by its very name involves Christ
The name is meaningless.
Otherwise I'm sure you'll agree Easter is a Pagan holiday, a translation of the Pagan goddess Eostre, celebrated in spring with bunnies etc, from where it got its name.
Are you sure you want to go off the name. Are you ready to relinquish Easter to Eostre?
Easter, in English, seems to get its name from Eostre, although the evidence for that is fairly weak. That doesn’t mean Easter as an event is a pagan holiday. Easter in most of Christendom isn’t called “Easter”, of course. Claims of Easter’s paganness are exaggerated: https://youtu.be/QW06pWHTeNk
Indeed, it is Pascha in much of the Christian world reflecting the fact Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection coincided with Passover
Just catching up on the SUV threadette. There is a lot of nonsense written on this topic because (I think??) people confuse the US idea of an SUV with our concept of it.
Someone earlier sought to compare our SUVs with estates (i.e. the modern incarnation of them). This is a great point, I think.
In many cases, the estates are larger.
BMW 5 series estate has a larger footprint than an Audi Q5, for example.
And the 7-seater (!) Audi Q7 is barely 10cm longer and wider.
Full disclosure, I'm an SUV driver. But there's a whiff of moral panic about them I think.
It's not the length, it's the width, and all modern cars have become a lot wider, not just SUVs.
Maybe so, but it was the nonsense focus on SUVs specifically that I was challenging.
(The Q5 is only an inch wider than the 5 series estate in any case)
Right, but compare to cars from a decade, two decades and three decades ago and you will see the difference plain as day.
So what though? That was never the point I was making. My point was the endless focus on SUVs specifically, when the truth is they often have smaller footprints than estates.
SUVs are more dangerous for pedestrians than "ordinary" cars, they are less fuel efficient (because they are heavier) and they cause greater wear on roads (again because they are heavier). They can be handy in rural locations where roads are poor, and generally empty, but in cities they are a menace with no redeeming features.
Menaces driven by some of the most menacing drivers!
Some roaring hell-for-leather through school zones and the like, like stunt doubles in a modern remake of "Thunder Road" staring ________ (fill in the blank) in the role first played by Robert Mitchum.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
Our oldest winter festival traditions you mean, Christmas by its very name involves Christ
The name is meaningless.
Otherwise I'm sure you'll agree Easter is a Pagan holiday, a translation of the Pagan goddess Eostre, celebrated in spring with bunnies etc, from where it got its name.
Are you sure you want to go off the name. Are you ready to relinquish Easter to Eostre?
Easter, in English, seems to get its name from Eostre, although the evidence for that is fairly weak. That doesn’t mean Easter as an event is a pagan holiday. Easter in most of Christendom isn’t called “Easter”, of course. Claims of Easter’s paganness are exaggerated: https://youtu.be/QW06pWHTeNk
Indeed, it is Pascha in much of the Christian world reflecting the fact Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection coincided with Passover
While in other countries terms like Yuletide etc are more common for the festive period we know as Christmas and are linked to the traditional Pagan festivities.
But we speak English and in English the name is Easter and that is Pagan in etymology not Christian. So do you accept that names don't actually mean much?
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
Along with inherited custom - such as Christmas and Easter holiday seasons, the two things which could unite rather than divide society are liberalism and humanism. You can be a secular or religious humanist, and a secular or religious liberal. Secular and religious people who are liberal and humanist tend to get on fine, even when bashing each other up in their free speech inspired arguments.
I'm a secular, liberal, atheist - no way am I a humanist!
Don’t underestimate the propensity of folk in ancient times to sit around after dark and invent all sorts of rubbish. That people still believe some of it centuries later is really quite pitiful.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yes. I love midges.
Seriously, you can have too much sunlight. It's really not needed at 3am.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yeah, nice try.
We Brits may moan about the weather but it's far superior to Moscow's. The freezing in Moscow's winter is far worse than in UK.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yes. I love midges.
Seriously, you can have too much sunlight. It's really not needed at 3am.
Its not light in Moscow at 3am. Moscow is about the same latitude as Glasgow but with a much superior summer climate.
Just listened to Andrew RT Davies, conservative leader in the Senedd respond to Mark Drakeford's resignation speech, in fulsome praise of Drakeford's period in office , gracious and kind and he did say that the word 'hate' is misused in politics as he said that because you enter vigorous debate over politics it does not follow it is potrayed as 'hate' and the word should be rejected as it conjours up too divisive a response
Davies has been a poor leader of the conservatives, but to hear him today does show that there is more that unites us then divides us
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
I am able to find pleasure in mist, fog, cloud and rain. A bit of sun is nice too, from time to time, but I wouldn't have ended up in West Cork if it was the be-all and end-all. Better cheese here than in Moscow, for example.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
It’s a perfectly good holiday where many people get the chance to catch up with a hobby or DIY on their home, and then sit down and enjoy chocolate eggs given and received. For those seasonally inclined, there are bunny rabbits and new born lambs to celebrate, along with the oncoming summer. It’s a shame that some religious folk always try to come along and spoil it with their self-obsessed doctrinal nonsense.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yeah, nice try.
We Brits may moan about the weather but it's far superior to Moscow's. The freezing in Moscow's winter is far worse than in UK.
I went to Jesus Green lido in Cambridge for a swim this morning. Effing heck, the water was 10 degrees, and even in my wetsuit it felt cold. Some people were swimming in just their trunks...
I never used to feel the cold. As I've got older, I increasingly do.
The simple truth is that Christmas and Easter are secular festivals for the vast majority of people, long weekends to get together with friends and family.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yes. I love midges.
Seriously, you can have too much sunlight. It's really not needed at 3am.
Its not light in Moscow at 3am. Moscow is about the same latitude as Glasgow but with a much superior summer climate.
Interesting you chose Moscow and just summer.
You could equally compare us with comparable latitudes across the Atlantic which have colder winters and warmer summers too.
The Atlantic air moderates our weather so we get warmer winters and cooler summers.
Many would argue that's a good thing. Most probably would.
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Sure, but the timing of Xmas and Easter is strikingly similar to pagan festivals of rebirth - the winter solstice and Spring, specifically. Hence eggs, bunnies, holly, ivy and evergreen trees and so on, clearly non-Christian symbolism, being intertwined with the Christian aspects.
Which does NOT diminish their Christian character (ancient or modern). NOR undermine timing and other connections with other faiths and traditions (ditto).
Phrase "pagan festivals of rebirth" immediately made me think of (in)famed festive festivities at No. 10 Downing Street under Boris Johnson's "watch".
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Sure, but the timing of Xmas and Easter is strikingly similar to pagan festivals of rebirth - the winter solstice and Spring, specifically. Hence eggs, bunnies, holly, ivy and evergreen trees and so on, clearly non-Christian symbolism, being intertwined with the Christian aspects.
From Sermon* (2008, DOI 10.2752/175169708X329372):
"Two Easter symbols that are often said to be associated with the goddess Eostre/Ostara are the Easter Egg and Easter Rabbit (originally a hare). However, there is no real evidence to support these claims. The egg is probably the most well known symbol of Easter, and was of great significance to the early Church (Newall 1971: 177–206). Spring eggs heralded the beginning of new life after the cold winter months, and so also symbolized the resurrection of Jesus. By the Middle Ages, it was customary throughout Europe to give decorated eggs on Easter Sunday, when they could finally be eaten after the long Lenten fast (e.g. German Ostereier and French Oeufs de Pâques). In England these colored Easter eggs were also referred to as “Pace” or “Paste” eggs, a name which is again derived from the Latin Pascha. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, egg-shaped toys were given to children as presents on Easter Sunday. By the nineteenth century, these Easter gifts included cardboard eggs filled with sweets and the chocolate Easter Egg that we know today.
"The earliest evidence for the Easter Hare (Osterhase) is recorded in 1678 in the book Satyrae Medicae (1722) by Georg Franck von Franckenau, a professor of medicine from Heidelberg. The custom seems to have started over three hundred years ago in south-west Germany, but remained unknown in other parts of country until the eighteenth century. Hares (Lepus europaeus) were frequently seen in gardens in spring, and thus may have served as a convenient explanation for the origin of the colored eggs hidden there for children. Alternatively, there is a European tradition that hares laid eggs, since a hare’s scratch or form and a lapwing’s (Vanellus vanellus) nest look very similar, and both occur on grassland and are first seen in the spring. In the nineteenth century the influence of Easter cards, toys, and books was to make the Easter Hare/Rabbit popular throughout Europe. German immigrants then exported the custom to Britain and America where it evolved into the Easter Bunny."
* That's his name. He's an academic despite his name!
We get this sort of religious shit from tube station operatives quite frequently on their marker pen whiteboards. Usually Christian texts, occasionally something Buddhist, but frankly it’s the same stuff. When they’re not writing live-laugh-love type self help messages
I suspect Isam is fine with Christian texts.
I would not be.
Religion shouldn't be in public spaces.
Good luck with all that cathedral demolishing then...
I'm with Bart of this one. Happy with churches, etc for those that want them, but I don't want religion rammed down my throat in unrelated places.
Another person to join my "end public Christmas displays" club. I'm sure that the strength of your convictions will also apply to this religious holiday as well!
I have no problem with public Christmas displays. Just wondering what that has to do with religion?
Similarly Easter. I enjoy an Easter egg and hot cross bun like the next person as long as religion is not brought into it.
Christmas is inherently religious - just because people claim it is secular doesn't mean that is true or how people receive it.
No it's inherently secular.
You're just ignorant of the subject matter.
Our oldest Christmas traditions predate the birth of Christ. Our newest ones are from this century.
This is disingenuous. Christmas is the holiday it is because of Christianity; as is Easter. They are the significant religious holidays when it comes to dispensation from work and education and are often everywhere, in public and private settings. If you want to interpret it as secular, you can, but then others can interpret quotes from the Hadith or any generally woo quotes from religious or spiritual texts as secular.
They're secular holidays dating back thousands of years.
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
As above, these claims that Xmas and Easter are transformed pagan holidays are debated.
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
Only debated in the same way that some debate if the earth is curved or flat.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
No. I’ve presented you with various sources. This idea that Xmas and Easter are just pagan holidays with the serial numbers filed off has its own origins (which IIRC are discussed in the Easter/Eostre video I linked to), but is not accepted by modern historians of religion. There are some links between pre-Christian religions and what became Christian traditions, but Easter and Xmas are inherently Christian holidays.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Sure, but the timing of Xmas and Easter is strikingly similar to pagan festivals of rebirth - the winter solstice and Spring, specifically. Hence eggs, bunnies, holly, ivy and evergreen trees and so on, clearly non-Christian symbolism, being intertwined with the Christian aspects.
From Sermon (2008, DOI 10.2752/175169708X329372):
"Two Easter symbols that are often said to be associated with the goddess Eostre/Ostara are the Easter Egg and Easter Rabbit (originally a hare). However, there is no real evidence to support these claims. The egg is probably the most well known symbol of Easter, and was of great significance to the early Church (Newall 1971: 177–206). Spring eggs heralded the beginning of new life after the cold winter months, and so also symbolized the resurrection of Jesus. By the Middle Ages, it was customary throughout Europe to give decorated eggs on Easter Sunday, when they could finally be eaten after the long Lenten fast (e.g. German Ostereier and French Oeufs de Pâques). In England these colored Easter eggs were also referred to as “Pace” or “Paste” eggs, a name which is again derived from the Latin Pascha. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, egg-shaped toys were given to children as presents on Easter Sunday. By the nineteenth century, these Easter gifts included cardboard eggs filled with sweets and the chocolate Easter Egg that we know today.
"The earliest evidence for the Easter Hare (Osterhase) is recorded in 1678 in the book Satyrae Medicae (1722) by Georg Franck von Franckenau, a professor of medicine from Heidelberg. The custom seems to have started over three hundred years ago in south-west Germany, but remained unknown in other parts of country until the eighteenth century. Hares (Lepus europaeus) were frequently seen in gardens in spring, and thus may have served as a convenient explanation for the origin of the colored eggs hidden there for children. Alternatively, there is a European tradition that hares laid eggs, since a hare’s scratch or form and a lapwing’s (Vanellus vanellus) nest look very similar, and both occur on grassland and are first seen in the spring. In the nineteenth century the influence of Easter cards, toys, and books was to make the Easter Hare/Rabbit popular throughout Europe. German immigrants then exported the custom to Britain and America where it evolved into the Easter Bunny."
"Conclusions
"The Paschal festival (Easter) has its origins in the Jewish Passover, which was the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. In most European languages the festival has a name derived from Pesach, the Hebrew name for Passover. Bede was clear that the timing of the Paschal season and that of the Anglo-Saxon Eosturmonath was simply a coincidence. It is spurious to suggest that the early Church (centered around the eastern Mediterranean) would have timed its most important festival to coincide with that of a north European pagan goddess. Furthermore, one of the most potent Easter symbols, the egg, can be explained as a Christian metaphor for the resurrection of Jesus, given on Easter Sunday when eggs could finally be eaten after the long Lenten fast. Bede’s explanation of the name Easter has in recent years been the subject of much debate. In the English-speaking world this has largely centered on whether his interpretation of the Anglo-Saxon Eosturmonath was mere speculation. However, Bede also provides evidence that “Easter” formed an element in personal names when he recorded the life of Easterwine (Abbot of Wearmouth), whose name could either mean “Eastern-friend” or “Eostre’s friend.” Comparable Old English names that combine “Elf ” or god-names with wine (friend) include Ælfwine, Godwin, and Oswin. These examples would tend to support the “Eostre’s friend” interpretation of Easterwine, although any further evidence of Bede’s goddess Eostre remains elusive.
"In Germany the debate should been seen in the context of, and possibly as a reaction against, the work of Jacob Grimm who first proposed that the German equivalents Ostern and Ostermonat derived from the same Germanic goddess. While there is no real evidence to support Grimm’s reconstructed goddess Ostara, attempts by various German linguists to find alternative origins have so far proven unconvincing. These theories have suggested ways in which the festival name Ostarun could have developed in Old High German, but have not adequately explained how the cognate name Eastron also developed in Old English.
"Alternatively, there may be a more direct route by which Ostern and Ostermonat could have entered the German language. Much of Germany was converted to Christianity by Anglo-Saxon clerics such as St Boniface, who were likely to have been celebrating Easter by that name during the course of their missionary work. Did the eighth-century German converts simply adopt the Old English names Eastron and Eastermonað into their native language, which then appeared in Old High German orthography as Ostarun and Ostarmanoth? This explanation would seem to fit the known evidence, and does not require any complex linguistic arguments or the existence of a Germanic goddess Ostara."
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yeah, nice try.
We Brits may moan about the weather but it's far superior to Moscow's. The freezing in Moscow's winter is far worse than in UK.
I went to Jesus Green lido in Cambridge for a swim this morning. Effing heck, the water was 10 degrees, and even in my wetsuit it felt cold. Some people were swimming in just their trunks...
I never used to feel the cold. As I've got older, I increasingly do.
It looks like the sea temperatures have bottomed out and started their climb towards something tolerable. Last year we waited until the cross-quarter day at the start of May, but it was still a bit cold then.
That video in The Sun of Wills and "Kate". Erm, they do know that's his new gf don't they? Unless she has shot up in height and had significant plastic surgery...
Bullshit. Kate is 5 foot 9. How tall do you think the person in the video is? Bang on 5'9" I'd say.
William does seem to have a type, right enough. But that doesn't look like Kate to me.
Would he really be stupid enough to be out and about with another woman?
You know his surname is Windsor, right?
Er, Mountbatten-Windsor isn't it?
Saxe-Coburg-Gotha?
They self-identified some years back from Windsor to Windsor with the added Mountbatten. Not sure why. (The Windsor bit was invented in WW1, as was the Mountbatten bit, for the same reason as German biscuits became Belgian and then Empire biscuits. But those were quite separate at the time.)
Prince Philip adopted the surname of Mountbatten (the anglicised version of his mother's maiden name of Battenburg) when he married the then Princess Elizabeth in 1947. In 1960 the late Queen decided that royal descendants who were not entitled to be addressed as Prince or Princess (which applies to children and grandchildren of the monarch) would use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.
Otherwise we would have Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg?
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
I am able to find pleasure in mist, fog, cloud and rain. A bit of sun is nice too, from time to time, but I wouldn't have ended up in West Cork if it was the be-all and end-all. Better cheese here than in Moscow, for example.
LostPassword - "I am able to find pleasure in mist, fog, cloud and rain."
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
17th October means parliament prorogues no later than 12th September. They'll want an "autumn" statement first in the week before. Which the treasury will need to prepare over the summer which will of course leak out. They'll also want to cancel party conference and try to save some money. And talking about savings, not a penny of the AS bribe will hit people's pay before the election.
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
I'm pretty sure the Conservatives make money from their conferences. Corporate booths and sponsored talks abound.
All this talk of Christmas when it's only March is bringing me down. Is there a way to move on?
Tomorrow is the spring equinox. It's the start of the six months of the year with the most daylight in the northern hemisphere. That has to be worth celebrating.
Yes just a shame northern and western europe gets such little sunshine in summer compared to places further east. London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202 Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234 Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Yes. I love midges.
Seriously, you can have too much sunlight. It's really not needed at 3am.
Its not light in Moscow at 3am. Moscow is about the same latitude as Glasgow but with a much superior summer climate.
why am I not surprised that you are know so much about Moscow
Comments
(But, FWIW, unless the children are illegitimate, it's easy enough to remove one person from the line of succession and keep their children in. The provision that excludes Catholics does exactly that).
However when you look at the polling by state, it's much closer. If polls are over estimating Trump by more than 4% then Biden wins. If they are over estimating by less than 4%, then Trump wins. It is looking painfully tight at the moment.
The key states to watch are Georgia 16 seats (Trump 3% ahead), Arizona 11 seats (Trump 4% ahead), Pennsylvania 20 seats (Trump 4% ahead). I am watching them every day.
I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but there's a brilliant history website for Edinburgh, which looks at one house/tenement at a time and looks at some of the people who have lived there.
https://tenementtown.com/
An easy site to lose a few hours in.
King in a Catholic style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EYLrws2_s0&t=2s
But it would be better to have her play a well-crafted female character.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4396553,-1.0813533,3a,34.4y,286.53h,85.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFwh0ruLjngSDl1LIn1px2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
But it would murder our current estate and hatch suspension. My guess is people aren't generally driving along roads quite this bad - the way they're going though is probably leading to more people buying SUVs (Which create more). A vicious circle !
Donald Trump is broke. He has no access to cash. He's been posting rants all morning. The kids won't have an inheritance. No billionaires are coming to his rescue. He is desperate; the family is desperate. And such desperation is a security risk.
1:25 PM · Mar 19, 2024
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104K
Views
https://x.com/juliettekayyem/status/1770079271807017161?s=20
It's a secular holiday, with religious bits bolted on that you may or may not go with.
The early Church moved the birth of Christ to align it with the preexisting secular holidays.
The story of Jesus's birth didn't happen in December.
Otherwise I'm sure you'll agree Easter is a Pagan holiday, a translation of the Pagan goddess Eostre, celebrated in spring with bunnies etc, from where it got its name.
Are you sure you want to go off the name. Are you ready to relinquish Easter to Eostre?
Definitely a connection between his financial plight and the recourse to Paul Manafort. He’s the channel to the wealth of the Russian oligarchs.
1:28 PM · Mar 19, 2024
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1,409
Views
https://x.com/Pughdv413/status/1770079821818646804?s=20
I hope so. It's very impressive and exactly the sort of experiment we need more of. Africa is lacking in regional or global entrepots, especially well functioning and well connected ones with large international populations and attracting inward investment. It only really has Djibouti, and at a push Mombasa port. Everywhere else is either very domestic and hard to trade with, or very focused on one industry, or lacking in infrastructure / political stability.
Might work, might not, but well worth a try.
https://x.com/AlRhodes92/status/1770103890832167232?s=20
The election will be October 17th because any later and Charles isn’t around
However if it’s then there is no chance of a tax change being passed down to workers in a pay pocket
The early Church bolted their religious stuff onto pre-existing traditions.
The birth of Jesus got moved to December to match with Yule celebrations.
And with Eostre they didn't even change the name!
If there is some influence of pagan religious events, those earlier celebrations are not *secular*. Eostre (a word only actually attested once, in Bede) is a god.
But since we've kept the tradition but stripped all the original religion out of it, it's now inherently secular.
Unless you wish to revert to celebrating pagan gods.
The history is there. The traditions predate the religion. The original religion is no longer followed so all we have left now is secular elements with a new religion bolting its stuff on top.
The Easter bunny is a more traditional Eostre element than the crucifixion. It's not Christian.
But sure, both sides.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
@BartholomewRoberts is right on this.
Watch the Easter/Eostre video. That’s by a historian of religion, using good academic sources.
Secondly whether or not the Christian holidays have been bolted onto traditionally Pagan dates is also irrelevant. We only celebrate now, and so have new or old traditions and days off because they are Christian Holidays.
We do not celebrate pagan holidays officially in the UK. These holidays are mandated national holidays purely by virtue of their links with Christian belief so they are not secular but secular people can attach their own meaning and traditions to them.
But with consent, if the rumours are true. And none of the other stuff, in recent times at least.
Fun for all the family, and if we make the person who gets burned in the wicker man the subject of a public vote, PB could have months of fun working out whether FPTP or AV would deliver a fairer pagan sacrifice.
‘Jesus f***ing Christ, delayed for how long?’
Probably safest not to give him the chance, eh voters?
(And in any event, the appeal will very likely fail to do anything other than reduce the fine a smidgeon. Not by enough to save his crashing empire. )
Are we sure on the 17th October? They may as well announce that date before the summer recess as you'll be able to see "there will be an election" from space. And as it will fall apart at high speed over the summer, by the time they get there it will be about as robust as that Truss confidence vote on Fracking.
Well, not recently.
Excluding Lady Di, of course.
Weird how PBers keep bringing this topic up while also asking that I don't talk about it.
It's almost as if they want me to discuss it.
When did I last bring it up?
The country could spent six months on a detailed and vigorous debate on the state of the nation, its prospects, and how best to improve them. Looks like Britain will get six months of empty discussion about the timing of the election.
Donald Trump’s son-in-law also says Israel should bulldoze an area of the Negev desert and move Palestinians there
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
Realistically both Easter and Christmas are both secular and religious holidays.
Religious celebrating the Biblical elements, crucifixion, birth, immaculate conception, nativity etc
Secular celebrating the festive elements. Chocolate, bunnies, trees, holly, presents etc.
Indeed one thing I think many Christians would agree with me on is saying that we can divide the two by saying that Christmas is the more important secular holiday, while Easter is the more important religious one.
Which is why it's rather ironic that Christmas has the Christian name while Easter maintains its Pagan name.
Some roaring hell-for-leather through school zones and the like, like stunt doubles in a modern remake of "Thunder Road" staring ________ (fill in the blank) in the role first played by Robert Mitchum.
Thunder Road (1958) - "Free with Ads"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvGUIlzAYmg
How sweet.
But we speak English and in English the name is Easter and that is Pagan in etymology not Christian. So do you accept that names don't actually mean much?
London sunshine hours june 208 july 217 aug 202
Stockholm sunshie nours june 277 july 280 aug 234
Moscow sunshine hours june 299 july 323 aug 242
Much better to be in Stockholm or Moscow during the summer dont you think despite their higher latitude. The UK can be quite dismal.
Seriously, you can have too much sunlight. It's really not needed at 3am.
We Brits may moan about the weather but it's far superior to Moscow's. The freezing in Moscow's winter is far worse than in UK.
Davies has been a poor leader of the conservatives, but to hear him today does show that there is more that unites us then divides us
I never used to feel the cold. As I've got older, I increasingly do.
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You could equally compare us with comparable latitudes across the Atlantic which have colder winters and warmer summers too.
The Atlantic air moderates our weather so we get warmer winters and cooler summers.
Many would argue that's a good thing. Most probably would.
Phrase "pagan festivals of rebirth" immediately made me think of (in)famed festive festivities at No. 10 Downing Street under Boris Johnson's "watch".
"Watch" as in . . .
Yogi Yorgesson - Who Hid The Halibut On The Poop Deck?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRV03zQkBas
. . . by one of Tacoma, Washington's favorite sons (along with fellow crooner Bing Crosby) and celebrated exponent of Pacific Northwest culture . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Stewart
"Two Easter symbols that are often said to be associated with the goddess Eostre/Ostara are the Easter Egg and Easter Rabbit (originally a hare). However, there is no real evidence to support these claims. The egg is probably the most well known symbol of Easter, and was of great significance to the early Church (Newall 1971: 177–206). Spring eggs heralded the beginning of new life after the cold winter months, and so also symbolized the resurrection of Jesus. By the Middle Ages, it was customary throughout Europe to give decorated eggs on Easter Sunday, when they could finally be eaten after the long Lenten fast (e.g. German Ostereier and French Oeufs de Pâques). In England these colored Easter eggs were also referred to as “Pace” or “Paste” eggs, a name which is again derived from the Latin Pascha. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, egg-shaped toys were given to children as presents on Easter Sunday. By the nineteenth century, these Easter gifts included cardboard eggs filled with sweets and the chocolate Easter Egg that we know today.
"The earliest evidence for the Easter Hare (Osterhase) is recorded in 1678 in the book Satyrae Medicae (1722) by Georg Franck von Franckenau, a professor of medicine from Heidelberg. The custom seems to have started over three hundred years ago in south-west Germany, but remained unknown in other parts of country until the eighteenth century. Hares (Lepus europaeus) were frequently seen in gardens in spring, and thus may have served as a convenient explanation for the origin of the colored eggs hidden there for children. Alternatively, there is a European tradition that hares laid eggs, since a hare’s scratch or form and a lapwing’s (Vanellus vanellus) nest look very similar, and both occur on grassland and are first seen in the spring. In the nineteenth century the influence of Easter cards, toys, and books was to make the Easter Hare/Rabbit popular throughout Europe. German immigrants then exported the custom to Britain and America where it evolved into the Easter Bunny."
* That's his name. He's an academic despite his name!
"The Paschal festival (Easter) has its origins in the Jewish Passover, which was the time of Jesus’ crucifixion. In most European languages the festival has a name derived from Pesach, the Hebrew name for Passover. Bede was clear that the timing of the Paschal season and that of the Anglo-Saxon Eosturmonath was simply a coincidence. It is spurious to suggest that the early Church (centered around the eastern Mediterranean) would have timed its most important festival to coincide with that of a north European pagan goddess. Furthermore, one of the most potent Easter symbols, the egg, can be explained as a Christian metaphor for the resurrection of Jesus, given on Easter Sunday when eggs could finally be eaten after the long Lenten fast. Bede’s explanation of the name Easter has in recent years been the subject of much debate. In the English-speaking world this has largely centered on whether his interpretation of the Anglo-Saxon Eosturmonath was mere speculation. However, Bede also provides evidence that “Easter” formed an element in personal names when he recorded the life of Easterwine (Abbot of Wearmouth), whose name could either mean “Eastern-friend” or “Eostre’s friend.” Comparable Old English names that combine “Elf ” or god-names with wine (friend) include Ælfwine, Godwin, and Oswin. These examples would tend to support the “Eostre’s friend” interpretation of Easterwine, although any further evidence of Bede’s goddess Eostre remains elusive.
"In Germany the debate should been seen in the context of, and possibly as a reaction against, the work of Jacob Grimm who first proposed that the German equivalents Ostern and Ostermonat derived from the same Germanic goddess. While there is no real evidence to support Grimm’s reconstructed goddess Ostara, attempts by various German linguists to find alternative origins have so far proven unconvincing. These theories have suggested ways in which the festival name Ostarun could have developed in Old High German, but have not adequately explained how the cognate name Eastron also developed in Old English.
"Alternatively, there may be a more direct route by which Ostern and Ostermonat could have entered the German language. Much of Germany was converted to Christianity by Anglo-Saxon clerics such as St Boniface, who were likely to have been celebrating Easter by that name during the course of their missionary work. Did the eighth-century German converts simply adopt the Old English names Eastron and Eastermonað into their native language, which then appeared in Old High German orthography as Ostarun and Ostarmanoth? This explanation would seem to fit the known evidence, and does not require any complex linguistic arguments or the existence of a Germanic goddess Ostara."
Ghostbusters - "Do you have any hobbies?" "I collect spores, molds and fungus."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeWgnPeZES8