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Impeaching Joe Biden – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    If anybody wonders why this country has gone to shit, Pagan's posts are rather revealing. For one, the current incarnation of the Tory party seems to believe the majority of the electorate holds the same opinions as him.

    Fuck that I dont vote tory they are a pile of steaming turds
    I am sorry it offends you but sorry most europeans seem to like a tyrant, napolean, kaiser willhelm, hitler, franco etc
    Cromwell? Henry VIII?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    If anybody wonders why this country has gone to shit, Pagan's posts are rather revealing. For one, the current incarnation of the Tory party seems to believe the majority of the electorate holds the same opinions as him.

    Fuck that I dont vote tory they are a pile of steaming turds
    I am sorry it offends you but sorry most europeans seem to like a tyrant, napolean, kaiser willhelm, hitler, franco etc
    Cromwell? Henry VIII?
    Charles I. And some of the king-PM combinations in later centuries were pretty nasty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    If anybody wonders why this country has gone to shit, Pagan's posts are rather revealing. For one, the current incarnation of the Tory party seems to believe the majority of the electorate holds the same opinions as him.

    Fuck that I dont vote tory they are a pile of steaming turds
    I am sorry it offends you but sorry most europeans seem to like a tyrant, napolean, kaiser willhelm, hitler, franco etc
    Cromwell? Henry VIII?
    We grew out of it both are centuries in the past.....vichy france though in living memory same for degaulle
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    rcs1000 said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    This is a very interesting and thoughtful post.

    But needs must where the devil drives. EU countries are scared for the first time.
    I dont think so. I wish it I could see it differently but I just cant see enough evidence. What we may end up with, at best, is a European coalition of the willing, which probably again would have enough clout to support Ukraine but the EU as an institution, when it has fear, backs down
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited February 11
    Nigelb said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
    The EU collectively gives most money to Ukraine while the US gives most weapons. Both are necessary. We shouldn't be making this into an argument. It doesn't do Ukraine any good.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    ..
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Why do we find it so hard to make anything that works in this country? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-68268560

    Its deeply depressing.

    One of the reasons why I want the Conservatives to lose convincingly in 2024/5 is so that they can go away and relearn how to be proper conservatives. Consider the following:
    • The Post Office scandal
    • Sodium valproate affecting the children of pregnant women
    • The collapse of English dentistry
    • The inability of the Army, Navy to field a functioning purposeful army and navy*1
    • The inability to train GPs and retain the ones we have
    • The inability to come to grips with the democratic time bomb
    • The belief that by importing hundreds of thousands of people per year we can solve problems without new problems being created
    Those are what I think the country's priorities should be. But what are the priorities of this Government?
    • AI
    • Culture War
    • Green stuff
    You know the line from "Succession"? "I love you but you are not serious people". It's basically that. I could shake them. I really could.

    *1 I read the speech by the Naval head in late 2023/2024. I could have throttled him.
    Find it hard to argue with any of that. I fear, however, that Labour will be no better. And, to take an example, they put the orders for carriers into a yard that just happened to be in Gordon Brown's constituency.
    To be fair to Mr Brown, that is misleading, at least de facto if not in intent. Rosyth did happen to be the only yard with a dock big enough IIRC. And, in practice, a lot of its work was assembly; the things were prefabbed, so big chunks were pork-barrelled all over the UK, ditto the equipment and machinery.
    I also remember it being conscripted into an argument for the Union many moons ago, and not just by Unionists of a Brownian ilk.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited February 11
    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    Per the Michael Kofman podcast there are a lot of weapons systems Ukraine needs that are only made by the US, so in practice the EU can't replace them with their own production any time soon. I think it makes sense that the EU didn't try to create capacity to make everything that the US does since they're in a defence alliance?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    glw said:

    Modern, Western “Strategic” nukes are smaller than some “Tactical” weapons from the early Cold War.

    If you pull the fusion boosting from the primary of US/UK designs, you get a yield of 300 tons of TNT. Yes, 0.3Kt. IIRC there was mention in Parliament that this is an option on Trident - at least one missile downloaded to a single warhead with this done.

    Next up is full yield of the primary - 10Kt+ - Hiroshima, essentially.

    Then you have the secondary that takes you up to 100kt

    The U.K. never thought they needed the higher yield of the W88 design.

    The missiles are a hell of a lot more accurate than early designs. You don't need a huge warhead to destroy a hard target when you will effectively hit the bull's eye. And with recent fusing upgrades fewer warheads are needed as well.

    The Russians had huge warheads because their missiles could be expected to miss the targets by perhaps ~1 km.
    Interestingly, the UK accidentally invented salvage fusing with an impact fuse design for missile RVs.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    Per the Michael Kofman podcast there are a lot of weapons systems Ukraine needs that are only made by the US, so in practice the EU can't replace them with their own production any time soon. I think it makes sense that the EU didn't try to create capacity to make everything that the US does since they're in a defence alliance?
    The issue is simple, most eu politicians were quite happy for the ukraine to lose quickly, They only support the ukraine now because they realised they will lost votes, my complaints arent particularly against the people of the eu merely the politicians
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,608

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    Per the Michael Kofman podcast there are a lot of weapons systems Ukraine needs that are only made by the US, so in practice the EU can't replace them with their own production any time soon. I think it makes sense that the EU didn't try to create capacity to make everything that the US does since they're in a defence alliance?
    The crux of Trump's complaint is that they should have used the delta between their spending commitment and what they actually spent to buy stuff from the US.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    nico679 said:

    BBC News going big on Labour anti-Semitism.Tommy Tugs eviscerating anti -Semite Starmer- Labour. "They are no better than Corbyn".

    They also explained that Labour can’t change the candidate now . And do Jewish people really want Galloway as an MP spewing his bile ?
    My overriding memory of Gorgeous George is seeing him (or his body double) wandering around the back-streets of the West End of Glasgow with a carry-out from the local off-license. Not entirely sure a cheap bottle of voddy is quite on-message now. Must have been someone else I guess. Loads of people round there look and sound like him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    ohnotnow said:

    nico679 said:

    BBC News going big on Labour anti-Semitism.Tommy Tugs eviscerating anti -Semite Starmer- Labour. "They are no better than Corbyn".

    They also explained that Labour can’t change the candidate now . And do Jewish people really want Galloway as an MP spewing his bile ?
    My overriding memory of Gorgeous George is seeing him (or his body double) wandering around the back-streets of the West End of Glasgow with a carry-out from the local off-license. Not entirely sure a cheap bottle of voddy is quite on-message now. Must have been someone else I guess. Loads of people round there look and sound like him.
    Galloway sells a weird "I don't say it, but I don't drink or eat pork, wink wink" thing to Muslim communities. He's even been know to attack Muslim opponents by claiming they are bad Muslims - that *they* break the diet rules.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    If anybody wonders why this country has gone to shit, Pagan's posts are rather revealing. For one, the current incarnation of the Tory party seems to believe the majority of the electorate holds the same opinions as him.

    Fuck that I dont vote tory they are a pile of steaming turds
    I am sorry it offends you but sorry most europeans seem to like a tyrant, napolean, kaiser willhelm, hitler, franco etc
    Cromwell? Henry VIII?
    We grew out of it both are centuries in the past.....vichy france though in living memory same for degaulle
    De Gaulle won plenty of elections and voluntarily resigned office when a referendum was rejected by the electorate. A referendum on decentralisation of the French state, no less.

    Not very tyrannical.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    Nigelb said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
    Yes, the Krauts have been generous enough, but they have been so in a grudging way. Before every big gift there have been long and angsty and very German debates.

    Whereas we've taken the opposite approach - we give less in total, but have often been to the forefront and given crucial amounts when it is needed. Our donations have often catalysed other people's.

    Personally I'd rather we followed a mixed approach - stay at the forefront but give much more.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
    Yes, the Krauts have been generous enough, but they have been so in a grudging way. Before every big gift there have been long and angsty and very German debates.

    Whereas we've taken the opposite approach - we give less in total, but have often been to the forefront and given crucial amounts when it is needed. Our donations have often catalysed other people's.

    Personally I'd rather we followed a mixed approach - stay at the forefront but give much more.
    We do seem to have slipped behind of late. Rishi in need of a few giveaways for the public?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,608
    Talking of Germany, they had to rerun the 2021 federal election in Berlin because of irregularities and the new vote took place today. The results with changes from 2021 were:

    Greens: 27.6% +0.4
    CDU: 20.7% +7.0
    SPD: 14.6% -7.8
    AfD: 12.6% +5.6
    Linke: 12.6% +0.7
    FDP: 3.3% -5.7
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    Nigelb said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
    PBers are even slower to shed comforting old tropes than Germany was in getting its act together. The difference is Germany has got there while some PBers never will.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Yokes said:

    1. The EU and Western Europe in general can quite readily sustain the level support to defeat Russia in Ukraine

    2. It probably won't because it will still be looking to the US and some key players will likely use the possibility of a withdrawal of US support to Ukraine as a get out.

    I saw in the Balkans how fucking useless the newly named EU & Western Europe as an entity was in the 90s where it needed the US to do what was necessary. History will show that some big European players wanted to ignore the Russian threat to Ukraine even after the US set it out in black and white, they just didnt want to know until it was simply impossible to reject.

    This is the EU, When it comes to shooting match in their own back yard, the big players are never prepared to do whats required. They always look to the US to hide behind. Its fucking pathetic.

    That is changing.
    But not fast enough to do without the US for the rest of this decade.

    It will take that long to rebuild defence production - which is starting to happen.

    Even Germany appears (possibly) to have had a fundamental change of heart regarding its strategic interests.
    German politicians seem pretty pro putin cf olaf scholz
    Germany is now, by some distance, the second largest provider of aid to Ukraine after the U.S.
    Yes, the Krauts have been generous enough, but they have been so in a grudging way. Before every big gift there have been long and angsty and very German debates.

    Whereas we've taken the opposite approach - we give less in total, but have often been to the forefront and given crucial amounts when it is needed. Our donations have often catalysed other people's.

    Personally I'd rather we followed a mixed approach - stay at the forefront but give much more.
    Blimey ( K****s?). I read that post and time travelled back to the 1970s.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    HYUFD said:
    I don't think it would turn out like that. In that event I assume US would become even more isolationist. With oil independence via shale and restoring industries, US can become self-sufficient and can easily turn inward. People who complain about American hegemony (with some good reason) have not yet considered what happens if it decides to turn its back on the world.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,134
    edited February 12
    Nigelb said:

    This is disgraceful.

    Trump gets access to sealed documents on witness threats in Mar-a-Lago case
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/11/trump-mar-a-lago-case-witness-threats-sealed-exhibit

    The judge is enabling witness intimidation.

    This one may result in Judge Cannon being hoist by her own petard with the 11th Circuit.

    It's going to be the first that is appealable aiui, since she has been doing so many 'paperless' orders. In part this is an elephant trap by prosecutor Jack Smith.
This discussion has been closed.