Rochdale - there is a solution. Vote for the Liberal Democrat candidate. Because even in a process of elimination he's the only major candidate who isn't a [censored]
An interesting weekend - back on the bike for really the second time since last year's medical problems. Ten miles (ie Not a Lot, bit I Liked It) last weekend, and the same this weekend - out surveying the "multi user" Phoenix Greenways in Derbyshire for anti-wheelchair barriers, and finding quite a few.
And a strange horse stile requiring the horse to turn 90 degrees - who says we don't promote horse pirouettes.
And lost afternoon today due an eye checkup involving dilated pupils.
I see it's an interesting and eccentric weekend on PB.
Here's mine: having got her prenup renegotiated and locked in, do we have a market for Melanie divorcing Chump, and the impact on the US Election?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
I'm not saying Galloway is the favourite but surely some of you who were dismissive of his chances yesterday must be having second thoughts after today's revelations?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
I'm not saying Galloway is the favourite but surely some of you who were dismissive of his chances yesterday must be having second thoughts after today's revelations?
It was right to be dismissive yesterday, just as it is right to adjust the assessment in the light of today's new information.
That's not really having 'second thoughts', which implies a change of opinion after considering the same facts again.
Out on my route yesterday, I parked my van in front of the first house on my favourite street in town (it's like a little country lane, and it's a few hundred yards from the High Street)
I've met the guy who lives there a couple of times in the few months since he moved in, but never got beyond polite pleasantries. Yesterday he came out of his front door just as I got out of the van, said hello then asked me for help
He had a pile of letters he needed to deliver and hadn't been able to find some of the houses. I gave him swift, detailed and accurate directions to every one
Then he told me that my gratefully received help was effectively campaigning for the Lib Dems. He's their PPC for my constituency, and was delivering leaflets and questionnaires
We had a brief but quite intense chat about politics, both local and national, and about his background (15 years in the army, now self-employed in IT). He's got into active politics because he wants the Tories out, even though, I think, he's quite conservative
He seems a really decent chap, and appears quite keen to recruit me. I don't want to work for the LDs, but I think I could help him out as the best local candidate
I might have to get a few bottles of Blanche's brew in him and find out where he stands on some crucial issues, then I might lend my assistance
I'm not saying Galloway is the favourite but surely some of you who were dismissive of his chances yesterday must be having second thoughts after today's revelations?
It was right to be dismissive yesterday, just as it is right to adjust the assessment in the light of today's new information.
That's not really having 'second thoughts', which implies a change of opinion after considering the same facts again.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
I'm not sure I can bear another nine months (nearly) of daily Trump discourse on my beloved PB - it's bad for the nerves. How about we have one Trump-free day a week, and on those days the esteemed moderators set up a program that automatically sends any post mentioning the T-word to the sin bin?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
'Donald Trump said on Saturday that as president, he warned Nato allies that he “would encourage” Russia “to do whatever the hell they want” to countries that are “delinquent” as he ramped up his attacks on foreign aid and longstanding international alliances.'
Trump being re-elected is the end of NATO. Why would anyone want to be reliant on this man?
You could argue, of course, that this is not necessarily a bad thing and that NATO is well past its sell by date. But it would be the end.
Americans have been telling Europeans not to rely on them for decades now. Why does it take someone putting it as bluntly as Trump for the message to start to sink in?
Would Trump be so pro- Putin were it not for the provision of credit via Deutsche Bank and the video kompromat taken through a two way mirror in a Moscow Hotel? Hmmm.
He's not pro-Putin but pro-American. The people who don't get him just have a different understanding of what America is and are often stuck in a Cold War timewarp.
His version of pro-Americanism runs directly contrary to fundamental UK security and economic interests. You can put these first or want Trump to be US President.
The alternative version of America has hardly been pro-British.
It has upheld our security interests for the last 80 years.
Piss off it has. The US has flirted with and often backed any other side we've been in opposition to, in the Falklands, the Cod wars, Suez etc. Our loyal lapdog stance has got us absolutely nowhere except being the place that Joe Biden snarls at in favour of Ireland, Obama puts 'at the back of the queue', and John Kerry delivers lectures to on coal mining.
How did the US oppose us during the Fawkland war?
They didn't - they did *flirt with* 'peace talks' and there was significant debate within the US administration of whether to support us. The personal relationship between Thather and Reagan helped a lot, but it was by no means a foregone conclusion.
Nice clear post with video illustrations attached below.
Since the media refuses to report on it, let me share what happens at a typical Trump speech:
1. He comes out to the playing of the “January 6 Anthem” song which he recorded with some of the most dangerous J6 rioters in jail.
2. He brags how his song with the J6 rioters gets more downloads than Taylor Swift (it does not)
3. He spends a few minutes talking about passing cognitive exams, and how the audience would not pass the exam, but because he is really smart (he is not) he is able to ace the exam.
4. He praises Viktor Orban, the leader of Hungary, who Trump says is the most respected leader in Europe (he is not).
5. He praises President Xi and says he is very strong and rules over 1 billion people with an iron fist and Hollywood couldn’t find an actor as tough as President Xi.
6. He praises Putin and says people say it’s a bad thing he gets along with Putin but he thinks it’s a good thing.
7. He makes weird noises reenacting lifting weights with a trans woman and he says “mommy I can’t do it. Mommy. Ughhh, uhh, mommy help me.”
8. He says he doesn’t like seeing President Biden at the beach and says he has a better body than Biden (he does not)
9. He talks about his hatred of windmills and his hatred of electric cars. He says he would rather be electrocuted than eaten by sharks however.
10. He praises the J6 insurrectionists and calls them hostages.
11. He whines about his court cases, attacks prosecutors, judges, and witnesses, and then praises “the great Alphonse Capone” and brags he was indicted more than Capone.
12. He quotes Hitler and says immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country.
13. He says he wants to be a dictator on day 1.
14. He plays QAnon music, audience members often make QAnon sign with their hands, and he talks about how America is a failing nation.
Oh god. This is what I was afraid of. Pivoting to the centre to win over independents.
Problem for Biden is that this sounds infinitely more amusing than 1 hour watching a tragic old Democrat cadaver pretend he’s not dead
This occurred to me earlier. Trump is fun. You can kind of like him in an ‘ironic’ way as well. But that may translate into actual votes
My hunch was that Biden would win a rematch with Trump because, economy. I am now much less certain, you can call it dementia or senility or whatever, does it matter? He obviously has it and it is deeply offputting and no one wants to watch it for another 4 years, it’s like being in a room with your decomposing Irish nan
It's not fun watching a mean-spirited narcissist bully and manipulate people. I hate it. There is just a tiny tiny part of me that's entertained as well as horrified but this is not an aspect of my brain chemistry I wish to encourage.
It'll be the same with you, I'm sure. The better part of you wants him gone, the worst part laps him up and wants him to win in November. For some reason it's that worst part which seems to animate a lot of your posts.
I have a spirit of devilry to be sure
I do genuinely want Trump to lose… but he is funny. Genuinely funny. Worse, he seems to feed off the negative embarrassed energy of his enemies, the more they flail the more animated he becomes
It’s quite strange
But. Sober hat on. Mature face adopted. The New York Times is right. Its time to get rid of Biden - however it happens, just do it it - and install anyone vaguely sane with a good VP choice
Biden is going to lose to Trump, as things stand
Yep. Been saying it for months. Trouble is now I think it is too late.
What happens if trump loses? I don’t think we’re thinking about that enough. Wanting to see him beaten is such an all encompassing wish that we’re a bit blind to the quite serious risks for American democracy even if he doesn’t win. If he lost the popular vote, 40 states and control of the house then perhaps we’d see the back of his movement. But unless Taylor Swift gets off her arse and runs, it’s likely to be close enough that he can cry foul and cause all sorts of trouble.
Ignoring @Leon's goonery, that last question is interesting.
If the Democrats win, what is the future of the Republicans? Having followed a Charlie Chaplin villain off the cliff of sanity, what happens to USA politics? Do we get a second party not dwelling on planet Zarg from somewhere?
If Trump makes it, whither Five Eyes? Do we suspend the USA for the duration, and see what of the West is left standing?
Surely Five Eyes stays together, even Trump will be happy to have some allies. I really don't understand the assumption by people that the UK would commit itself to continental Europe. The UK would accommodate itself to Trump even if he managed to take the US out of NATO.
Some people are surprised that Johnson is supporting Trump. Why? Does anyone really believe Johnson actually gives a shit about what happens in Ukraine, or security on the continent of Europe in general?
Nice clear post with video illustrations attached below.
Since the media refuses to report on it, let me share what happens at a typical Trump speech:
1. He comes out to the playing of the “January 6 Anthem” song which he recorded with some of the most dangerous J6 rioters in jail.
2. He brags how his song with the J6 rioters gets more downloads than Taylor Swift (it does not)
3. He spends a few minutes talking about passing cognitive exams, and how the audience would not pass the exam, but because he is really smart (he is not) he is able to ace the exam.
4. He praises Viktor Orban, the leader of Hungary, who Trump says is the most respected leader in Europe (he is not).
5. He praises President Xi and says he is very strong and rules over 1 billion people with an iron fist and Hollywood couldn’t find an actor as tough as President Xi.
6. He praises Putin and says people say it’s a bad thing he gets along with Putin but he thinks it’s a good thing.
7. He makes weird noises reenacting lifting weights with a trans woman and he says “mommy I can’t do it. Mommy. Ughhh, uhh, mommy help me.”
8. He says he doesn’t like seeing President Biden at the beach and says he has a better body than Biden (he does not)
9. He talks about his hatred of windmills and his hatred of electric cars. He says he would rather be electrocuted than eaten by sharks however.
10. He praises the J6 insurrectionists and calls them hostages.
11. He whines about his court cases, attacks prosecutors, judges, and witnesses, and then praises “the great Alphonse Capone” and brags he was indicted more than Capone.
12. He quotes Hitler and says immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country.
13. He says he wants to be a dictator on day 1.
14. He plays QAnon music, audience members often make QAnon sign with their hands, and he talks about how America is a failing nation.
Oh god. This is what I was afraid of. Pivoting to the centre to win over independents.
Problem for Biden is that this sounds infinitely more amusing than 1 hour watching a tragic old Democrat cadaver pretend he’s not dead
This occurred to me earlier. Trump is fun. You can kind of like him in an ‘ironic’ way as well. But that may translate into actual votes
My hunch was that Biden would win a rematch with Trump because, economy. I am now much less certain, you can call it dementia or senility or whatever, does it matter? He obviously has it and it is deeply offputting and no one wants to watch it for another 4 years, it’s like being in a room with your decomposing Irish nan
It's not fun watching a mean-spirited narcissist bully and manipulate people. I hate it. There is just a tiny tiny part of me that's entertained as well as horrified but this is not an aspect of my brain chemistry I wish to encourage.
It'll be the same with you, I'm sure. The better part of you wants him gone, the worst part laps him up and wants him to win in November. For some reason it's that worst part which seems to animate a lot of your posts.
I have a spirit of devilry to be sure
I do genuinely want Trump to lose… but he is funny. Genuinely funny. Worse, he seems to feed off the negative embarrassed energy of his enemies, the more they flail the more animated he becomes
It’s quite strange
But. Sober hat on. Mature face adopted. The New York Times is right. Its time to get rid of Biden - however it happens, just do it it - and install anyone vaguely sane with a good VP choice
Biden is going to lose to Trump, as things stand
Yep. Been saying it for months. Trouble is now I think it is too late.
What happens if trump loses? I don’t think we’re thinking about that enough. Wanting to see him beaten is such an all encompassing wish that we’re a bit blind to the quite serious risks for American democracy even if he doesn’t win. If he lost the popular vote, 40 states and control of the house then perhaps we’d see the back of his movement. But unless Taylor Swift gets off her arse and runs, it’s likely to be close enough that he can cry foul and cause all sorts of trouble.
Ignoring @Leon's goonery, that last question is interesting.
If the Democrats win, what is the future of the Republicans? Having followed a Charlie Chaplin villain off the cliff of sanity, what happens to USA politics? Do we get a second party not dwelling on planet Zarg from somewhere?
If Trump makes it, whither Five Eyes? Do we suspend the USA for the duration, and see what of the West is left standing?
Surely Five Eyes stays together, even Trump will be happy to have some allies. I really don't understand the assumption by people that the UK would commit itself to continental Europe. The UK would accommodate itself to Trump even if he managed to take the US out of NATO.
Some people are surprised that Johnson is supporting Trump. Why? Does anyone really believe Johnson actually gives a shit about what happens in Ukraine, or security on the continent of Europe in general?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
Actually, I do. I think that Russia is a completely spent force. But its still not a risk worth taking.
Not that we are taking it of course. It is up to the US.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
Being deeply cynical I think Trump's NATO comments makes it inevitable the UK rejoins the EU and an EU Army, probably within the first year of a Starmer Premiership.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
Being deeply cynical I think Trump's NATO comments makes it inevitable the UK rejoins the EU and an EU Army, probably within the first year of a Starmer Premiership.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
Nice clear post with video illustrations attached below.
Since the media refuses to report on it, let me share what happens at a typical Trump speech:
1. He comes out to the playing of the “January 6 Anthem” song which he recorded with some of the most dangerous J6 rioters in jail.
2. He brags how his song with the J6 rioters gets more downloads than Taylor Swift (it does not)
3. He spends a few minutes talking about passing cognitive exams, and how the audience would not pass the exam, but because he is really smart (he is not) he is able to ace the exam.
4. He praises Viktor Orban, the leader of Hungary, who Trump says is the most respected leader in Europe (he is not).
5. He praises President Xi and says he is very strong and rules over 1 billion people with an iron fist and Hollywood couldn’t find an actor as tough as President Xi.
6. He praises Putin and says people say it’s a bad thing he gets along with Putin but he thinks it’s a good thing.
7. He makes weird noises reenacting lifting weights with a trans woman and he says “mommy I can’t do it. Mommy. Ughhh, uhh, mommy help me.”
8. He says he doesn’t like seeing President Biden at the beach and says he has a better body than Biden (he does not)
9. He talks about his hatred of windmills and his hatred of electric cars. He says he would rather be electrocuted than eaten by sharks however.
10. He praises the J6 insurrectionists and calls them hostages.
11. He whines about his court cases, attacks prosecutors, judges, and witnesses, and then praises “the great Alphonse Capone” and brags he was indicted more than Capone.
12. He quotes Hitler and says immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country.
13. He says he wants to be a dictator on day 1.
14. He plays QAnon music, audience members often make QAnon sign with their hands, and he talks about how America is a failing nation.
Oh god. This is what I was afraid of. Pivoting to the centre to win over independents.
Problem for Biden is that this sounds infinitely more amusing than 1 hour watching a tragic old Democrat cadaver pretend he’s not dead
This occurred to me earlier. Trump is fun. You can kind of like him in an ‘ironic’ way as well. But that may translate into actual votes
My hunch was that Biden would win a rematch with Trump because, economy. I am now much less certain, you can call it dementia or senility or whatever, does it matter? He obviously has it and it is deeply offputting and no one wants to watch it for another 4 years, it’s like being in a room with your decomposing Irish nan
It's not fun watching a mean-spirited narcissist bully and manipulate people. I hate it. There is just a tiny tiny part of me that's entertained as well as horrified but this is not an aspect of my brain chemistry I wish to encourage.
It'll be the same with you, I'm sure. The better part of you wants him gone, the worst part laps him up and wants him to win in November. For some reason it's that worst part which seems to animate a lot of your posts.
I have a spirit of devilry to be sure
I do genuinely want Trump to lose… but he is funny. Genuinely funny. Worse, he seems to feed off the negative embarrassed energy of his enemies, the more they flail the more animated he becomes
It’s quite strange
But. Sober hat on. Mature face adopted. The New York Times is right. Its time to get rid of Biden - however it happens, just do it it - and install anyone vaguely sane with a good VP choice
Biden is going to lose to Trump, as things stand
Yep. Been saying it for months. Trouble is now I think it is too late.
What happens if trump loses? I don’t think we’re thinking about that enough. Wanting to see him beaten is such an all encompassing wish that we’re a bit blind to the quite serious risks for American democracy even if he doesn’t win. If he lost the popular vote, 40 states and control of the house then perhaps we’d see the back of his movement. But unless Taylor Swift gets off her arse and runs, it’s likely to be close enough that he can cry foul and cause all sorts of trouble.
Ignoring @Leon's goonery, that last question is interesting.
If the Democrats win, what is the future of the Republicans? Having followed a Charlie Chaplin villain off the cliff of sanity, what happens to USA politics? Do we get a second party not dwelling on planet Zarg from somewhere?
If Trump makes it, whither Five Eyes? Do we suspend the USA for the duration, and see what of the West is left standing?
Surely Five Eyes stays together, even Trump will be happy to have some allies. I really don't understand the assumption by people that the UK would commit itself to continental Europe. The UK would accommodate itself to Trump even if he managed to take the US out of NATO.
Some people are surprised that Johnson is supporting Trump. Why? Does anyone really believe Johnson actually gives a shit about what happens in Ukraine, or security on the continent of Europe in general?
I don't think that's the issue, and is looking from the wrong end.
Trump has stolen top secret information for his own use, and disclosed it willy-nilly to third parties - to what purpose and at what risk? He has lied to the National Archives when they want to recover the secret material in accordance with US law. When the FBI searched his property under a judicially issued search warrant he deceived them and lied to them.
His lawyers are currently trying to force release of the identities of witness in the Florida documents case, placing their safety at serious risk.
Do we want disclosure of our material to such a man, in such a position as POTUS?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
Clearly that was nonsense though wasn't it? The US geopolitical aim has been to keep a smouldering-level conflict that drains Russia's manpower and fighting resources, and (as a bonus) displaces her gas exports, in the long term. Giving the Ukrainians enough equipment to get Russia out of Ukraine would not serve that purpose. They needed to be given just enough to keep the conflict going.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the new tankies which is fair.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Indeed, Trump had a valid point in 2016 and he has a valid point now. I can quite understand from an American perspective why spending money defending Europe is a case of throwing good dollars after bad. It wasn't the case in the Cold War but since 1989 the world has changed.
Trying to make Putin into some Peter the Great Mark 2 doesn't work for me and the performance of the Russian forces in Ukraine also doesn't seem to fit that image either. Yes, Europe can and should do more collectively to defend itself and while Poland and surprisingly Greece look good and the UK looks okay, defence spending in France, Germany and Spain has lagged badly and Trump is right to raise it.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
And this shows that unity is a weakness, how exactly?
Being deeply cynical I think Trump's NATO comments makes it inevitable the UK rejoins the EU and an EU Army, probably within the first year of a Starmer Premiership.
Huzzah for Trump I say.
Lets play out the "Trump gets elected" scenario. If he does what he says he will, then the pressure for a coordinated European response with us in it will be pretty strong.
Petty nonsense about sovereignty matters less when you're worried about Russia and America has turned to shit.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters.
AH & DJT both teetotal and keen on a bit of peepee action, allegedly.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
And this shows that unity is a weakness, how exactly?
Can you not see how maintaining unity can lead to a failure to act because those who would otherwise be bolder are held back by those who are fearful?
If, on the eve of the war, a couple of NATO countries had overriden objections from allies and sent troops into Ukraine, it might have made Putin think twice, mightn't it?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
You just described national sovereignty as "petty nonsense", so what do you care if we succumb to a foreign power?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
What is the immediate consequence of Trump's campaign spiel?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
Trump is more like Mussolini to Putin's Hitler.
(Though arguably Mussolini was much more capable than Trump.)
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
You just described national sovereignty as "petty nonsense", so what do you care if we succumb to a foreign power?
Stop. Read. Think. Saying "national sovereignty" is petty nonsense when your existence and the existence of your allies is under direct threat.
Its like declaring Manchester as a "Nuclear Free City" - what good would that have been with SS-20 warheads dropping from the stratosphere?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
Just to add: most of us are not Americans and have no vote, so it's academic. We're just onlookers, and as things stand it looks like Trump will be reelected.
We need to deal with the world as it is and not retreat into a fantasy version of 1990s-era Pax Americana that no longer exists.
Once again, it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming what a politician says to get elected will be what they do once they are elected.
Political rhetoric rarely translates to policy reality.
IF elected (and I think that's still a big IF), Trump will huff and puff on a range of issues but his advisers (and as wel all know, it isn't so much the quality of the advisors that matters as the quality of the advice) will be constantly reminding Trump of the geopolitical and constitutional realities and constraints under which even POTUS has to operate.
What happens with populists who get elected and then find they can't half the things they said they would do before the election is they blame "the system" which works for their supporters but leaves then stuck as the checks and balances which constitute "the system" are there for a reason (or a number of reasons).
This distinguishes the verbose populists who rail against the system from the conviction politicians who are clever enough to use the system to push through the changes they desire often incrementally over time.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
And this shows that unity is a weakness, how exactly?
Can you not see how maintaining unity can lead to a failure to act because those who would otherwise be bolder are held back by those who are fearful?
If, on the eve of the war, a couple of NATO countries had overriden objections from allies and sent troops into Ukraine, it might have made Putin think twice, mightn't it?
No, Putin would have used it as an excuse to split Nato and, depending on which countries had sent the troops to Ukraine, he'd have attacked those countries.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
I don't know enough about 1920s Germany - but was there a 'proto-Hitler'? As in a near-miss, maybe got elected, made some incendiary speeches, paved the way? I'm not aware of one, but Adolf kinda drowns out most of the storytelling around those times. I know there was plenty of bad sh*t in the air, but a pointable figurehead/lead?
I'm hoping Trump isn't just a useless boil who sets the stage for someone actually competent at 'all the bad things'.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
And this shows that unity is a weakness, how exactly?
Can you not see how maintaining unity can lead to a failure to act because those who would otherwise be bolder are held back by those who are fearful?
If, on the eve of the war, a couple of NATO countries had overriden objections from allies and sent troops into Ukraine, it might have made Putin think twice, mightn't it?
No, Putin would have used it as an excuse to split Nato and, depending on which countries had sent the troops to Ukraine, he'd have attacked those countries.
You saw how well the initial invasion went for Russia. You think that he would have launched simultaneous attacks on, say, Poland and the UK and brought us directly into the war?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Well then, he'll be effective all the way down to the collapse of the Western order and untold deaths. Good for him.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
That will be something to console yourself with when we're all under Putin's yoke.
Talk me through your logic. How will Europe spending more on defence lead to us ending up under Putin's yoke?
If the US turns its back on Nato and Europe, Russia will start picking off countries one by one. Ukraine will be the first to go of course followed by the Baltic states, Finland,...
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
Are you not infantilising Europe? Why do you think that European countries are incapable of deterring Russia without getting the US to do the job?
Anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
You are demonstrably wrong in saying that anything that divides the Western democracies is a help to Putin.
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
No, unity is always stronger than disunity.
That's clearly false.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
And this shows that unity is a weakness, how exactly?
Can you not see how maintaining unity can lead to a failure to act because those who would otherwise be bolder are held back by those who are fearful?
If, on the eve of the war, a couple of NATO countries had overriden objections from allies and sent troops into Ukraine, it might have made Putin think twice, mightn't it?
That's not how NATO works and had Russian forces directly engaged with NATO forces in the Ukraine, well, it might not have turned out well. Indeed, my recollection of the papers from March 2022 was column after column stressing how close we were to nuclear war and how fortunate it was Ukraine wasn't in NATO and how we couldn't actively intervene.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
What is the immediate consequence of Trump's campaign spiel?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
The west’s adversaries are thinking a Trump led US would be a paper tiger.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
Trump is more like Mussolini to Putin's Hitler.
(Though arguably Mussolini was much more capable than Trump.)
Now I'm slightly worried that I've missed out on who is the Franco in all this.
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
Just to add: most of us are not Americans and have no vote, so it's academic. We're just onlookers, and as things stand it looks like Trump will be reelected.
We need to deal with the world as it is and not retreat into a fantasy version of 1990s-era Pax Americana that no longer exists.
We're dealing with the world where odious creeps like you spend your evenings being an apologist for a piece of shit like Trump.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
Once again, it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming what a politician says to get elected will be what they do once they are elected.
Political rhetoric rarely translates to policy reality.
IF elected (and I think that's still a big IF), Trump will huff and puff on a range of issues but his advisers (and as wel all know, it isn't so much the quality of the advisors that matters as the quality of the advice) will be constantly reminding Trump of the geopolitical and constitutional realities and constraints under which even POTUS has to operate.
What happens with populists who get elected and then find they can't half the things they said they would do before the election is they blame "the system" which works for their supporters but leaves then stuck as the checks and balances which constitute "the system" are there for a reason (or a number of reasons).
This distinguishes the verbose populists who rail against the system from the conviction politicians who are clever enough to use the system to push through the changes they desire often incrementally over time.
All of that was true the first time around. If you think ‘his advisers’ will be the same next time, you’re kidding yourself.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
Trump is more like Mussolini to Putin's Hitler.
(Though arguably Mussolini was much more capable than Trump.)
Now I'm slightly worried that I've missed out on who is the Franco in all this.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
What is the immediate consequence of Trump's campaign spiel?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
The west’s adversaries are thinking a Trump led US would be a paper tiger.
Who is that good for ?
Are they? Do you have a direct line to the Kremlin?
If they think that, why did Putin invade while Biden was in the White House and not while Trump was there?
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Once again, it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming what a politician says to get elected will be what they do once they are elected.
Political rhetoric rarely translates to policy reality.
IF elected (and I think that's still a big IF), Trump will huff and puff on a range of issues but his advisers (and as wel all know, it isn't so much the quality of the advisors that matters as the quality of the advice) will be constantly reminding Trump of the geopolitical and constitutional realities and constraints under which even POTUS has to operate.
What happens with populists who get elected and then find they can't half the things they said they would do before the election is they blame "the system" which works for their supporters but leaves then stuck as the checks and balances which constitute "the system" are there for a reason (or a number of reasons).
This distinguishes the verbose populists who rail against the system from the conviction politicians who are clever enough to use the system to push through the changes they desire often incrementally over time.
I was listening to a podcast a while back which was interviewing various pro-Trump think-tanks. All their plans, the policies they would enact, how they'd re-shape the US.
And I kept thinking "You know he might just sack you all on day one? Or 15? Or only half of you and pit you against yourselves?".
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
Just to add: most of us are not Americans and have no vote, so it's academic. We're just onlookers, and as things stand it looks like Trump will be reelected.
We need to deal with the world as it is and not retreat into a fantasy version of 1990s-era Pax Americana that no longer exists.
We're dealing with the world where odious creeps like you spend your evenings being an apologist for a piece of shit like Trump.
You're showing a mob mentality and attacking me because I'm questioning whether the mob has got it right.
Once again, it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming what a politician says to get elected will be what they do once they are elected.
Political rhetoric rarely translates to policy reality.
IF elected (and I think that's still a big IF), Trump will huff and puff on a range of issues but his advisers (and as wel all know, it isn't so much the quality of the advisors that matters as the quality of the advice) will be constantly reminding Trump of the geopolitical and constitutional realities and constraints under which even POTUS has to operate.
What happens with populists who get elected and then find they can't half the things they said they would do before the election is they blame "the system" which works for their supporters but leaves then stuck as the checks and balances which constitute "the system" are there for a reason (or a number of reasons).
This distinguishes the verbose populists who rail against the system from the conviction politicians who are clever enough to use the system to push through the changes they desire often incrementally over time.
It’s worth reading Fiona Hill’s There’s Nothing for You Here for a sense of what it was like to be one of Trump’s advisers first time round. It’s not a particularly reassuring read.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Have you contacted the BBC to tell them their article is wrong?
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
Yes, to carry on the cricket analogy - as a long innings draws to a close and the player tires, he starts to play more reckless shots.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
What is the immediate consequence of Trump's campaign spiel?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
The west’s adversaries are thinking a Trump led US would be a paper tiger.
Who is that good for ?
Are they? Do you have a direct line to the Kremlin?
If they think that, why did Putin invade while Biden was in the White House and not while Trump was there?
Was he busy invading somewhere else? Wrestling an oiled horse to the ground? He's a busy lad, is our Putin.
The strategic balance is very different today from the Cold War. Finland and Sweden are no longer neutral; Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary (in extremis), Czechia, Slovakia and most of the Balkans are on Nato's side. Russia can no longer call on the rest of the Soviet Union for unequivocal support. Two European powers have nuclear capability. Russia swept over Eastern Europe in 1945 in circumstances unlikely to be repeated. There is absolutely no reason why Europe can't defend itself and should not depend on the USA.
This is not to support Trump or to denigrate Biden - merely to describe the geopolitical reality.
The strategic balance is very different today from the Cold War. Finland and Sweden are no longer neutral; Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary (in extremis), Czechia, Slovakia and most of the Balkans are on Nato's side. Russia can no longer call on the rest of the Soviet Union for unequivocal support. Two European powers have nuclear capability. Russia swept over Eastern Europe in 1945 in circumstances unlikely to be repeated. There is absolutely no reason why Europe can't defend itself and should not depend on the USA.
This is not to support Trump or to denigrate Biden - merely to describe the geopolitical reality.
I'm always slightly troubled by this quote in these circumstances.
“We can't win against obsession. They care, we don't. They win.” ― Douglas Adams, Life, the Universe and Everything
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
Time for the EU and the UK to realize that it’s time to forget about the USA and look after their own security .
Ironically a Trump win is the worst thing for those who have an unhinged hatred of the EU . With the orange psychopath in the WH the UK and EU are likely to become much closer .
The strange thing is Trump seems to think NATO is akin to a neighbourhood protection racket on the Lower East Side. You'll get "protection" if you pay enough - if you don't, you won't.
Time to ask ourselves some serious questions - do we need NATO any longer? It's been arguably the most successful military alliance in history but it was primarily set up as an ideological counter weight to an expansionost revolutionary ideology. The truth now is Russia isn't the Warsaw Pact and China may be a threat to the US in the Pacific but not militarily to Europe.
Maintaining our independent nuclear deterrent and the French Force de Frappe still makes for a formidable defence and were we to align with the growing military power of Poland we would be in a better place but it begs the question - NATO stands for collective defence, an attack on one is an attack on all but is that a reasonable doctrine in a multipolar world? To what extent and in what way should be acting as a guarantor for the defence of Latvia or Finland?
How independent of the US is our nuclear deterrent?
Good question, and I don't think the full answer is publicly known.
I think it's UK-built warheads based on an American design, likely using American materials. American re-entry vehicles. American booster. British designed and built submarines, powered by a nuclear reactor built in the UK to an American design.
There's supposedly complete operational independence, so we're able to press the button ourselves without American say-so... but for how long would it continue to work if they withdrew support for the missiles?
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief. https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1756434033108549955
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
I don't know enough about 1920s Germany - but was there a 'proto-Hitler'? As in a near-miss, maybe got elected, made some incendiary speeches, paved the way? I'm not aware of one, but Adolf kinda drowns out most of the storytelling around those times. I know there was plenty of bad sh*t in the air, but a pointable figurehead/lead?
I'm hoping Trump isn't just a useless boil who sets the stage for someone actually competent at 'all the bad things'.
Hitler was the proto Hitler in the 20s, a joke in jodhpurs who couldn’t organise a pissed up putsch in a bierhall. He learned though, and the people round him did also.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Have you contacted the BBC to tell them their article is wrong?
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
Time for the EU and the UK to realize that it’s time to forget about the USA and look after their own security .
Ironically a Trump win is the worst thing for those who have an unhinged hatred of the EU . With the orange psychopath in the WH the UK and EU are likely to become much closer .
The strange thing is Trump seems to think NATO is akin to a neighbourhood protection racket on the Lower East Side. You'll get "protection" if you pay enough - if you don't, you won't.
Time to ask ourselves some serious questions - do we need NATO any longer? It's been arguably the most successful military alliance in history but it was primarily set up as an ideological counter weight to an expansionost revolutionary ideology. The truth now is Russia isn't the Warsaw Pact and China may be a threat to the US in the Pacific but not militarily to Europe.
Maintaining our independent nuclear deterrent and the French Force de Frappe still makes for a formidable defence and were we to align with the growing military power of Poland we would be in a better place but it begs the question - NATO stands for collective defence, an attack on one is an attack on all but is that a reasonable doctrine in a multipolar world? To what extent and in what way should be acting as a guarantor for the defence of Latvia or Finland?
How independent of the US is our nuclear deterrent?
Good question, and I don't think the full answer is publicly known.
I think it's UK-built warheads based on an American design, likely using American materials. American re-entry vehicles. American booster. British designed and built submarines, powered by a nuclear reactor built in the UK to an American design.
There's supposedly complete operational independence, so we're able to press the button ourselves without American say-so... but for how long would it continue to work if they withdrew support for the missiles?
The UK can't overhaul the missile airframes, degauss the boats and has no test range. That's not to say that capability could never be generated but it would take a long time and many billions.
Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief. https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1756434033108549955
The strategic balance is very different today from the Cold War. Finland and Sweden are no longer neutral; Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary (in extremis), Czechia, Slovakia and most of the Balkans are on Nato's side. Russia can no longer call on the rest of the Soviet Union for unequivocal support. Two European powers have nuclear capability. Russia swept over Eastern Europe in 1945 in circumstances unlikely to be repeated. There is absolutely no reason why Europe can't defend itself and should not depend on the USA.
This is not to support Trump or to denigrate Biden - merely to describe the geopolitical reality.
Quite. I also believe that in the (much) longer term, the EU could achieve strategic independence from the US by continuing EU expansion eastwards and eventually integrating Russia, at least into an association. That gives the EU a space programme worth a damn, access to Russia's hydrocarbon resources etc., and for Russia, an opportunity to embrace European norms and develop and diversify its economy. It would need of course to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine and the other nations on its periphery.
I don't want Britain to be part of it, but it is a good idea. I'd rather see Russia deepen its relationship with the Continent than become completely beholden to China.
I'd be happy with a multipolar world with the significant powers being the USA, EU-Russia, China, and India. A positive, prosperous UK could be a respected friend and trading partner to all, but be ruled by none. We've thrived under such conditions before; there's no reason why we can't do so again.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
Time for the EU and the UK to realize that it’s time to forget about the USA and look after their own security .
Ironically a Trump win is the worst thing for those who have an unhinged hatred of the EU . With the orange psychopath in the WH the UK and EU are likely to become much closer .
The strange thing is Trump seems to think NATO is akin to a neighbourhood protection racket on the Lower East Side. You'll get "protection" if you pay enough - if you don't, you won't.
Time to ask ourselves some serious questions - do we need NATO any longer? It's been arguably the most successful military alliance in history but it was primarily set up as an ideological counter weight to an expansionost revolutionary ideology. The truth now is Russia isn't the Warsaw Pact and China may be a threat to the US in the Pacific but not militarily to Europe.
Maintaining our independent nuclear deterrent and the French Force de Frappe still makes for a formidable defence and were we to align with the growing military power of Poland we would be in a better place but it begs the question - NATO stands for collective defence, an attack on one is an attack on all but is that a reasonable doctrine in a multipolar world? To what extent and in what way should be acting as a guarantor for the defence of Latvia or Finland?
How independent of the US is our nuclear deterrent?
Good question, and I don't think the full answer is publicly known.
I think it's UK-built warheads based on an American design, likely using American materials. American re-entry vehicles. American booster. British designed and built submarines, powered by a nuclear reactor built in the UK to an American design.
There's supposedly complete operational independence, so we're able to press the button ourselves without American say-so... but for how long would it continue to work if they withdrew support for the missiles?
The UK can't overhaul the missile airframes, degauss the boats and has no test range. That's not to say that capability could never be generated but it would take a long time and many billions.
I'm sure the French would help us out. Vive la France!
The strategic balance is very different today from the Cold War. Finland and Sweden are no longer neutral; Poland, the Baltics, Romania, Hungary (in extremis), Czechia, Slovakia and most of the Balkans are on Nato's side. Russia can no longer call on the rest of the Soviet Union for unequivocal support. Two European powers have nuclear capability. Russia swept over Eastern Europe in 1945 in circumstances unlikely to be repeated. There is absolutely no reason why Europe can't defend itself and should not depend on the USA.
This is not to support Trump or to denigrate Biden - merely to describe the geopolitical reality.
That's really what I have been saying for a while now. The one major advantage Russia had was a huge store of vehicles and equipment from Soviet times which meant in the short term they could have tactical superiority. But that has now been almost completely destroyed in Ukraine and proved not to be as nearly effective as feared against NATO systems and equipment anyway.
The truth is that a militant and right wing Poland might well become more of an issue than Russia. They did rather badly out of the redrawn map after WW2 and may well have grievances about it. They would already be well capable of dealing with Russia and are increasingly becoming more so.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Have you contacted the BBC to tell them their article is wrong?
Do you think it's wrong?
Not really, they did interview IDF reservists based along the Gaza border after all!
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
I don't know enough about 1920s Germany - but was there a 'proto-Hitler'? As in a near-miss, maybe got elected, made some incendiary speeches, paved the way? I'm not aware of one, but Adolf kinda drowns out most of the storytelling around those times. I know there was plenty of bad sh*t in the air, but a pointable figurehead/lead?
I'm hoping Trump isn't just a useless boil who sets the stage for someone actually competent at 'all the bad things'.
Wolfgang Kapp, perhaps? Seized Berlin briefly in 1920 at the head of the Freikorps movement before being pushed out by a General Strike.
One of his key supporters was Ludendorff, who later joined with Hitler, took part in the Bierkellar Putsch and stood for the Presidency in 1925 when Hitler was barred from standing and the Nazis were banned.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Ha, I missed that. I usually pride myself on seeing his aliases a mile off. But a shifty fraudster pretending to be a shifty fraudster is a pretty good disguise, it must be said. Hats off to him.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Israel had all the pieces and there is huge demand in that country for an inquiry into what was known, and how Hamas pulled it off.
Pearl Harbour was an Al Murray joke iirc about America being caught totally off-guard, *two years into a global war*.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
I see the January 6th insurrection analogous to the Beer Hall Putsch but I see Putin as more like Hitler.
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the tankies which is fair.
People boosting Biden are the equivalent of Stalin's useful idiots.
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness. - Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation. - Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion. - Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded. - Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
So the solution is to elect a man inviting Putin to "do what he likes" to Europe?
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
What is the immediate consequence of Trump's campaign spiel?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
The west’s adversaries are thinking a Trump led US would be a paper tiger.
Who is that good for ?
Are they? Do you have a direct line to the Kremlin?
If they think that, why did Putin invade while Biden was in the White House and not while Trump was there?
Putin invaded Georgia in 2008, during Dubya's tenure.
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
Trump is more like Mussolini to Putin's Hitler.
(Though arguably Mussolini was much more capable than Trump.)
Now I'm slightly worried that I've missed out on who is the Franco in all this.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Oh, what a give-away.
Also "You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle." from Feb 9th
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Oh, what a give-away.
Also "You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle." from Feb 9th
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Oh, what a give-away.
Also "You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle." from Feb 9th
But I reckon Russian troll, not Leon.
Can anyone distinguish between the output of a Russian troll and Leon these days?
Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief. https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1756434033108549955
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Oh, what a give-away.
Also "You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle." from Feb 9th
But I reckon Russian troll, not Leon.
Can anyone distinguish between the output of a Russian troll and Leon these days?
No Russian troll has ever admitted knapping flint dildos* for a living in between writing travel articles for some seedy periodical or other.
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Oh, what a give-away.
Also "You are wasted on this site Leon. Your charm charisma and intelligence is too much for the regulars to handle." from Feb 9th
But I reckon Russian troll, not Leon.
Obeisance to Leon was a characteristic of earlier incarnations too.
The Rochdale candidate should be suspended from the Labour Party. It’s a no-brainer.
Apparently it’s too late for Labour to put up another candidate. Well, so what?
Do we know the Rochdale Candidate is wrong? I have seen reports that Israel's front-line monitoring stations picked up and relayed back reports on Hamas preparations, and nothing seems to have been done.
"They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard"
This canard crops up every time. Did Roosevelt know about Pearl Harbour? Could have, but not really. Did Churchill know about Coventry? Could have, but not really. You can always construct a chain of events, but it assumes people make decisions in an empyrean realm where all things are known immediately and wise men are in place 24/7 to decide. It doesn't work like that.
Have you contacted the BBC to tell them their article is wrong?
(I assume) it isn't wrong. It illustrates the problem. Lots and lots of pieces of info, the ones at the bottom are scared, the ones at the top are confused, some days later there's a war. Conspiracy theories are not necessary. Even cases where people are screaming there's going to be a war (see the events before Feb2022 in Ukraine) it's always a surprise
I see Harper has finally been shown the door, just three posts short of a double-century. That must be a record for a Russian troll.
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
I got the impression this morning that he was almost looking to be banned, it had maybe turned into a long and not particularly lucrative shift. There were direct references to him living in Russia and having lived in Moscow that was not present before that.
I admit I just thought it was a bored Leon and ignored it.
Ah, that might be a shout actually. Hats off if it was - it never even entered my head!
There was that "you're the most interesting poster on this site" thing this morning.
Ha, I missed that. I usually pride myself on seeing his aliases a mile off. But a shifty fraudster pretending to be a shifty fraudster is a pretty good disguise, it must be said. Hats off to him.
Too many grammatical and idiomatic errors, missed capitalisation etc. for it to be Leon.
Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief. https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1756434033108549955
Former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO says he is "100% certain" that Trump will withdraw from the organization. "Europe should be smashing the glass on the fire alarm" and prepare to "fight without American support." https://twitter.com/eeldenden/status/1754493706906870114
It shows how effective Trump is.
US presidents have been telling Europe to pull its finger out for decades, but all it took was one campaign speech from Trump for the message to get through.
Effective at generating the first serious doubt in over half a century over the US commitment to its allies, sure.
Anyone who thinks that a good thing is a fool.
You think that it's sustainable to spend below the agreed amount on the military while relying on the US?
If it took someone as blunt as Trump for the message to be heard, European countries only have themselves to blame.
There’s a difference to saying those countries should pay more into the pot . That’s a valid point . Trump has gone too far in effectively green lighting an attack on a NATO country by Putin .
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
Trump was talking hypothetically in the context of a negotiation over military spending.
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
More desperate false equivalence .
Indeed, Trump's hyperbole is not equivalent to the hundreds of thousands of dead Europeans we've witnessed on Biden's watch.
In 1940 you would have been rightly interned.
Do you literally see Trump as Hitler?
A lot of people do, and compare the Jan 6th riot with the beer hall putsch. So they genuinely think Trump might not quite win in 24 but be levered into power, as was the case for Hitler in 33.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Trump is not Hitler. Adolf wrote a book detailing his ideological lunacy. Trump paid someone to write a book for him about how to do deals. Hitler decided that imposing his ideology and his will on Europe was destiny. Trump? Literally doing his best to stay out of jail.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
I don't know enough about 1920s Germany - but was there a 'proto-Hitler'? As in a near-miss, maybe got elected, made some incendiary speeches, paved the way? I'm not aware of one, but Adolf kinda drowns out most of the storytelling around those times. I know there was plenty of bad sh*t in the air, but a pointable figurehead/lead?
I'm hoping Trump isn't just a useless boil who sets the stage for someone actually competent at 'all the bad things'.
Hitler was the proto Hitler in the 20s, a joke in jodhpurs who couldn’t organise a pissed up putsch in a bierhall. He learned though, and the people round him did also.
Kurt von Schleicher? Ran the Black Reichswehr, involved in a a number of plots and near-coups, and was the Chancellor immediately before Hitler. Sponsored the group of right-wing intellectuals that inspired the Nazis. More of an authoritarian militarist than a populist, but would likely have tried to go further down the strong man route if Hitler hadn't come along.
You might also make a case for von Papen and Hindenburg...
Comments
An interesting weekend - back on the bike for really the second time since last year's medical problems. Ten miles (ie Not a Lot, bit I Liked It) last weekend, and the same this weekend - out surveying the "multi user" Phoenix Greenways in Derbyshire for anti-wheelchair barriers, and finding quite a few.
And a strange horse stile requiring the horse to turn 90 degrees - who says we don't promote horse pirouettes.
And lost afternoon today due an eye checkup involving dilated pupils.
I see it's an interesting and eccentric weekend on PB.
Here's mine: having got her prenup renegotiated and locked in, do we have a market for Melanie divorcing Chump, and the impact on the US Election?
It'll be like the Nazis in the 1930s - each concession will lead to a further demand.
The fact you choose to ignore that is quite something !
That's not really having 'second thoughts', which implies a change of opinion after considering the same facts again.
I've met the guy who lives there a couple of times in the few months since he moved in, but never got beyond polite pleasantries. Yesterday he came out of his front door just as I got out of the van, said hello then asked me for help
He had a pile of letters he needed to deliver and hadn't been able to find some of the houses. I gave him swift, detailed and accurate directions to every one
Then he told me that my gratefully received help was effectively campaigning for the Lib Dems. He's their PPC for my constituency, and was delivering leaflets and questionnaires
We had a brief but quite intense chat about politics, both local and national, and about his background (15 years in the army, now self-employed in IT). He's got into active politics because he wants the Tories out, even though, I think, he's quite conservative
He seems a really decent chap, and appears quite keen to recruit me. I don't want to work for the LDs, but I think I could help him out as the best local candidate
I might have to get a few bottles of Blanche's brew in him and find out where he stands on some crucial issues, then I might lend my assistance
Do you approve of Biden closing the embassy in Ukraine and telling the world that they would only last for three days? Could that not be construed as giving the green light to Putin?
How about we have one Trump-free day a week, and on those days the esteemed moderators set up a program that automatically sends any post mentioning the T-word to the sin bin?
Do you think if America walked away from Nato, all the current European democracies would remain free and none would become Russian satellites?
Some people are surprised that Johnson is supporting Trump. Why? Does anyone really believe Johnson actually gives a shit about what happens in Ukraine, or security on the continent of Europe in general?
Providing military help to Ukraine divided the Western democracies. In fact trying to seek a consensus was actively damaging to Ukraine and helpful to Putin. If the countries that were worried about escalation had been ignored and more serious weapons had been provided earlier, then maybe the war would already be over.
Unity isn't always strength.
Not that we are taking it of course. It is up to the US.
Huzzah for Trump I say.
If you insist on a common position then you are beholden to the lowest common denominator. Biden himself said at one point that he couldn't give Ukraine everything they asked for because to do so would split NATO and the EU. What price unity?
Trump has stolen top secret information for his own use, and disclosed it willy-nilly to third parties - to what purpose and at what risk? He has lied to the National Archives when they want to recover the secret material in accordance with US law. When the FBI searched his property under a judicially issued search warrant he deceived them and lied to them.
His lawyers are currently trying to force release of the identities of witness in the Florida documents case, placing their safety at serious risk.
Do we want disclosure of our material to such a man, in such a position as POTUS?
Trump and you are his boosters, Sean_F on this forum put you into the category of the new tankies which is fair.
Trying to make Putin into some Peter the Great Mark 2 doesn't work for me and the performance of the Russian forces in Ukraine also doesn't seem to fit that image either. Yes, Europe can and should do more collectively to defend itself and while Poland and surprisingly Greece look good and the UK looks okay, defence spending in France, Germany and Spain has lagged badly and Trump is right to raise it.
I think it’s a stretch. Trump is not a nice person, is unsuited to be president of a small provincial golf club, let alone the USA, but he his not going to start a war that kills 50 million people and send 6 million Jews to their deaths for being Jewish.
Petty nonsense about sovereignty matters less when you're worried about Russia and America has turned to shit.
But - and its a big but - the alt right is wandering into neo fascism and Trump absolutely uses Hitler-style language about groups of people he dislikes...
- Biden waived sanctions on Nordstream in 2021, sending a signal of weakness.
- Biden cancelled plans to deploy warships to the Black Sea in 2021, citing fears of escalation.
- Biden closed the embassy in Kyiv in 2022, effectively green lighting the invasion.
- Biden told the world that Ukraine would only last three days, making it seem like a lost cause. Thankfully Boris Johnson wasn't deterred and overruled officials to send significant quantities of arms before Russia invaded.
- Biden slowrolled military aid, delaying the counteroffensive and prolonging the war.
Face the truth: Biden and his administration is a liability to the West and people should stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.
However bad Biden is - and he is bad - the solution is not Trump.
If, on the eve of the war, a couple of NATO countries had overriden objections from allies and sent troops into Ukraine, it might have made Putin think twice, mightn't it?
It is that a host of European countries are thinking, "We need to get really serious about defence."
Is that good or bad for Europe? Is that good or bad for Putin?
(Though arguably Mussolini was much more capable than Trump.)
Its like declaring Manchester as a "Nuclear Free City" - what good would that have been with SS-20 warheads dropping from the stratosphere?
We need to deal with the world as it is and not retreat into a fantasy version of 1990s-era Pax Americana that no longer exists.
Political rhetoric rarely translates to policy reality.
IF elected (and I think that's still a big IF), Trump will huff and puff on a range of issues but his advisers (and as wel all know, it isn't so much the quality of the advisors that matters as the quality of the advice) will be constantly reminding Trump of the geopolitical and constitutional realities and constraints under which even POTUS has to operate.
What happens with populists who get elected and then find they can't half the things they said they would do before the election is they blame "the system" which works for their supporters but leaves then stuck as the checks and balances which constitute "the system" are there for a reason (or a number of reasons).
This distinguishes the verbose populists who rail against the system from the conviction politicians who are clever enough to use the system to push through the changes they desire often incrementally over time.
I'm hoping Trump isn't just a useless boil who sets the stage for someone actually competent at 'all the bad things'.
Who is that good for ?
It was a skilful innings all in all. I particularly liked the subtle passing observations about the apparent increased prevalence of sudden/ unexpected deaths and premature ageing, rather than his making any direct reference to the COVID vaccine.
If you think ‘his advisers’ will be the same next time, you’re kidding yourself.
If they think that, why did Putin invade while Biden was in the White House and not while Trump was there?
And I kept thinking "You know he might just sack you all on day one? Or 15? Or only half of you and pit you against yourselves?".
This is not to support Trump or to denigrate Biden - merely to describe the geopolitical reality.
I think it's UK-built warheads based on an American design, likely using American materials. American re-entry vehicles. American booster. British designed and built submarines, powered by a nuclear reactor built in the UK to an American design.
There's supposedly complete operational independence, so we're able to press the button ourselves without American say-so... but for how long would it continue to work if they withdrew support for the missiles?
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1756404462707429592
Michael is deployed serving our country, something you know nothing about. Someone who continually disrespects the sacrifices of military families has no business being commander in chief.
https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1756434033108549955
I don't want Britain to be part of it, but it is a good idea. I'd rather see Russia deepen its relationship with the Continent than become completely beholden to China.
I'd be happy with a multipolar world with the significant powers being the USA, EU-Russia, China, and India. A positive, prosperous UK could be a respected friend and trading partner to all, but be ruled by none. We've thrived under such conditions before; there's no reason why we can't do so again.
The truth is that a militant and right wing Poland might well become more of an issue than Russia. They did rather badly out of the redrawn map after WW2 and may well have grievances about it. They would already be well capable of dealing with Russia and are increasingly becoming more so.
One of his key supporters was Ludendorff, who later joined with Hitler, took part in the Bierkellar Putsch and stood for the Presidency in 1925 when Hitler was barred from standing and the Nazis were banned.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Kapp-Putsch
Pearl Harbour was an Al Murray joke iirc about America being caught totally off-guard, *two years into a global war*.
Of course.
But I reckon Russian troll, not Leon.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12970377/Nikki-Haley-cheated-affair-husband-affidavits-witnesses.html
*Autocorrect WTAF changing that to 'diodes?'
If Leon can prove me wrong then, yes, hats off.
You might also make a case for von Papen and Hindenburg...