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Thank you Tories for all the betting opportunities – politicalbetting.com

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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    Judaism the faith was essentially irrelevant to Nazi Antisemitism. They considered the Jews to be an alien ethnic group. They defined a Jew as someone with one Jewish grandparent. Which is why Catholic Nuns deemed ethnically Jewish were murdered -

    https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/12/world/pope-canonizes-jew-who-became-nun-and-died-at-auschwitz.html

    https://www.auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/80th-anniversary-of-the-death-of-edith-stein,1570.html
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Foxy said:

    Was this really the question?

    "Lord Frost and friends have asked a fascinatingly skewed YouGov poll question between these 3 options

    1) Rishi Sunak
    2) Keir Starner
    3) imaginary new Conservative leader who stops the boats, cuts immigration, delivers lower taxes, better NHS, lower crime!"

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1749914073766989882?t=UJJXRRdwrHEdTgE4Owscxw&s=19

    If Yougov really asked such a skewed question then they will be the laughing stock of the polling world. That's Trafalgar bad!

    Dr Fausto has a thought to sell you.

    Meet him at the crossroads.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,659
    dixiedean said:

    I would prefer blowjobs on demand from Margot Robbie, the Minogue Sisters and Emma Stone to Keir as PM.

    Hard choice?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Scott_xP said:

    @MattChorley

    Source close to Liz Truss insists she is NOT supporting Simon Clarke tonight

    When your Truss doesn't offer you support you know you're sinking.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    This has shades of the 2009 botched coup for David Miliband v Gordon Brown which got nowhere.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jun/04/james-purnell-resigns-gordon-brown-cabinet

    But should have done, from a Labour point of view. Miliband would have won more seats than Brown in 2010.
    Milburn was the lost leader who might have saved them from opposition.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    First like Ian Blackford as the SNP's first member of the House of Lords.

    The question is whether he'd even be an SNP member by the time he gets the vermin fur on. An interesting point.
    AIUI, the SNP constitution (or rules?) bans their representatives from taking 'foreign' UK honours, or some such. But presumably they'd accept a defection from an existing peer who joined them, or an hereditary who was elected to the Lords.
    ISTR it's possibly happened before - but a very long time ago. I can't remember the name. Possibly before the current rules?
    I think so. James Graham, 6th Duke of Montrose was a founding member of the Scottish Party while a member of the Lords, and he then supported the merger with the National Party of Scotland that created the SNP in 1934. He was indeed the first President of the SNP, a party that at the time wanted home rule rather than independence. However, he defected to the Liberals in 1936.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Who is funding the shadowy 'Conservative British Alliance', the group that seems to be behind this coup?

    I suspect his initials may be VP.

    Vincent Price 🤔
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,659
    dixiedean said:

    I would prefer blowjobs on demand from Margot Robbie, the Minogue Sisters and Emma Stone to Keir as PM.

    Jezzas new Party is offering that as well as a wealth tax I hear
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited January 23
    Cookie said:

    Anyway. To take a break from all that, apparently Doncaster is part of Scotland, and a petition has been launched (over three years ago, so I'm not sure why it's only just being reported on now) to give it back to Scotland. Or something.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-uk-city-owned-by-scotland-despite-being-150-miles-from-the-scottish-border/ar-BB1h5a5O?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f419f469e24242f9ab7115217df9bad3&ei=26

    I'd be interested in the views of our Scottish and Doncastrian correspondents.

    Late to this...but..

    Sorry, what?

    I'll allow it if we get a Munro, or better, several.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    dixiedean said:

    I would prefer blowjobs on demand from Margot Robbie, the Minogue Sisters and Emma Stone to Keir as PM.

    Seems to me a bit harsh on them .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    kle4 said:

    Sounds like a wishful thinking conclusion to me - more relevant is that it's an even split of whether they think Biden won in 2020, even in a group that self describes as 64% non-MAGA.

    CNN’s exit poll from the New Hampshire Republican primary:

    Party registration:
    Registered Republicans-49%
    Registered undeclared-47%
    Unregistered before today-3%

    Ideology
    Very conservative-24%
    Somewhat conservative-39%
    Modrate-31%
    Liberal-6%

    Are you part of the MAGA movement?
    Yes-32%
    No-64%

    Do you think Biden won legitimately in 2020?
    Yes-49%
    No-49%

    Encouraging numbers for Nikki Haley

    https://nitter.net/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1749920897215959432#m

    49% thinking Biden did not win in 2020 is awful numbers for Nikki Haley.
    No it isn't, as almost all Trump voters will think that.

    Only 49% registered republicans and 32% MAGA suggest a high Independent turnout too
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    @SimonClarkeMP

    Oct 24, 2022

    Today @Conservatives need to unite. Really extremely serious events are unfolding and our country needs leadership. @RishiSunak is the right person to assume the immense responsibility of being Prime Minister and he will have my full support.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,659

    Foxy said:

    Was this really the question?

    "Lord Frost and friends have asked a fascinatingly skewed YouGov poll question between these 3 options

    1) Rishi Sunak
    2) Keir Starner
    3) imaginary new Conservative leader who stops the boats, cuts immigration, delivers lower taxes, better NHS, lower crime!"

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1749914073766989882?t=UJJXRRdwrHEdTgE4Owscxw&s=19

    If Yougov really asked such a skewed question then they will be the laughing stock of the polling world. That's Trafalgar bad!



    Meet him at the crossroads.
    Noele says no
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    Very true. Fair comment.
    If you only have anti-discrimination laws against characteristics which cannot be changed and where you had no choice, then the only ones you'd keep would be age, race, sex, sexuality and disability you were born with ie not as a result of a driving or similar accident. Everything else would go.

    Which would please those who want to discriminate against pregnant women, those with children, gender reassignees, people believing you can change sex, vegans, those believing in Scottish independence (the latter 2 have been declared "philosophical beliefs"), the married, people falling off horses or driving stupidly or smokers or those getting diabetes because they eat too much etc, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists etc.

    There's a political programme there - not a winning one, mind. I expect the Tories will adopt it about 3 weeks before the next election when they are at 11% in the polls.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    What time do we start getting results from NH? (I mean the rest of the the votes, not just the first 6)

    OK, answering my own question as I looked it up on the internet:

    Polling places will start to close at 7 p.m. and all locations will close by 8 p.m. The Associated Press said it first reported some nighttime results for the 2020 primary at 7:32 p.m. ET, and finished tabulating at 1:14 a.m.

    The AP declared the winner of the 2016 primaries—when both the Democratic and Republican races were competitive—at 8 p.m.


    17:40 in NH right now. I guess they'll do the GOP ones first as the Dem ones need to be individually scrutinized to check whether they wrote in "Biden" or "Lizard People".
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    Some things are too serious for your point scoring. Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Secular, even atheist, Jews are a significant part of that group and many were Holocaust victims -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics?wprov=sfti1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    Operations Save the Little Dog in full swing tonight
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    Some things are too serious for your point scoring. Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Secular, even atheist, Jews are a significant part of that group and many were Holocaust victims -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics?wprov=sfti1
    So what? Only religious freedom would have saved them
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Cyclefree said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    Very true. Fair comment.
    If you only have anti-discrimination laws against characteristics which cannot be changed and where you had no choice, then the only ones you'd keep would be age, race, sex, sexuality and disability you were born with ie not as a result of a driving or similar accident. Everything else would go.

    Which would please those who want to discriminate against pregnant women, those with children, gender reassignees, people believing you can change sex, vegans, those believing in Scottish independence (the latter 2 have been declared "philosophical beliefs"), the married, people falling off horses or driving stupidly or smokers or those getting diabetes because they eat too much etc, Muslims, Catholics, Jews, Buddhists etc.

    There's a political programme there - not a winning one, mind. I expect the Tories will adopt it about 3 weeks before the next election when they are at 11% in the polls.
    And gingers would be faced with discrimination or forcible hair dying.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    viewcode said:

    Charles to refuse to swear in the new PM and tell them it is high time for a GE?

    Not his job.
    Um, not sure about that...
    Which bit? Charles is a figurehead. It’s not up to him to tell someone who can command a majority in the house that they shouldn’t, and should hold an election.
    Precedent. You only have to go back to 1834 when William IV dismissed Melbourne's government.

    Also it's in the Cabinet Manual:

    2.9 Historically, the Sovereign has made use of reserve powers to dismiss a Prime Minister or to make a personal choice of successor, although this was last used in 1834..."

    ..and was not too popular.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited January 23
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    Some things are too serious for your point scoring. Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Secular, even atheist, Jews are a significant part of that group and many were Holocaust victims -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics?wprov=sfti1
    I am continually surprised that the 'Jews are not a race' point comes up with such consistency when the point you make has been established for ages.


    That atheist jews would not be saved from death is incontestable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited January 23
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    Some things are too serious for your point scoring. Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Secular, even atheist, Jews are a significant part of that group and many were Holocaust victims -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics?wprov=sfti1
    So what? Only religious freedom would have saved them
    Wut ?

    Not having a genocidal fascist government would have been more to the point.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    Some things are too serious for your point scoring. Jews are an ethnoreligious group. Secular, even atheist, Jews are a significant part of that group and many were Holocaust victims -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics?wprov=sfti1
    So what? Only religious freedom would have saved them
    No it wouldn’t. The Nazis killed them because of their ethnic Jewish identity, not their religion. The Nazis really really cared about “race”. Comparatively they couldn’t give a monkeys about religion. It was perfectly possible to convert from Judaism to Catholicism in Nazi Germany. It wouldn’t save you. Read about the Nuremberg Laws.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    SKS fans please explain why your boy can't beat the Telegraph wet dream non existent leader!!
    Can anyone beat a wet dream non existent leader? Surely that’s the whole point of wet dream non existent leaders appearing in non serious political polling.

    The only serious thing to all this is the damage yougov are doing to themselves - credibility is so important not just in political polling but all market research - are they Ratnering themselves?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
  • Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    This has shades of the 2009 botched coup for David Miliband v Gordon Brown which got nowhere.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/jun/04/james-purnell-resigns-gordon-brown-cabinet

    But should have done, from a Labour point of view. Miliband would have won more seats than Brown in 2010.
    I doubt that. Brown did reasonably well in 2010 in hindsight. His serious man for serious times thing was probably Labour's best chance.

    David Miliband was, is, and always will be a massively overrated gimp.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Values and Fighting more important than Temperament and Electability. Sounds more like Trump than Haley, not that this stuff is super-useful.


  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    For the purposes of the Equality Act, Jews are a race: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/your-rights-under-equality-act-2010/race-discrimination

    For a fuller legal analysis, try https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1163&context=ijlse
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited January 23
    GE polls all over the place.

    Latest two National polls (Bullfinch and Morning Consult) have Trump leading Biden by 5%.

    But new Susquehana Pennsylvania poll has Biden leading Trump by 8%!

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
  • Scott_xP said:

    Operations Save the Little Dog in full swing tonight

    They can't save him from the voters.

    The joy of this is that after their councillors get reamed on 2nd May, we get to have another one of these putschettes. Perhaps another in the autumn as well.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    Not by the Nazis they weren’t.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    Jews have always been considered a people (an ethic group if you prefer) by themselves and others. You betray a profound and worrying ignorance by confusing the Jewish People with Judaism as a religion.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    New: on the Tory WhatsApp group, MPs are tonight publicly rowing in behind Rishi Sunak

    Bob Seely: ‘To those who wanna do this: get a bloody life.’

    Andrew Percy: ‘The idea another leadership psychodrama will help any Tory MP is for the birds! For FFS!’

    What does he think the first 'f' in 'ffs' stands for?

    I'm seeing a lot of annoyance being directed at the Clarkist insurrection - but so far not a single positive word about Sunak.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    In different places and at different times, ethnic categories shift and change. They are social constructs.

    The standard census questions on ethnicity that are widely used in the UK do not have a box for Jewish: I presume most Jews in the UK would tick "White British", but certainly not all.

    However, with respect to equality law, the UK legal position is very clear that Jewish counts as a race. The same applies to Sikhs: no box on the census, but the law says they are a race for these purposes.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    SKS fans please explain why your boy can't beat the Telegraph wet dream non existent leader!!
    Can anyone beat a wet dream non existent leader? Surely that’s the whole point of wet dream non existent leaders appearing in non serious political polling.

    The only serious thing to all this is the damage yougov are doing to themselves - credibility is so important not just in political polling but all market research - are they Ratnering themselves?
    Truss could. She’s unbeaten in the leadership votes she’s competed in this decade.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643


    Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .

    That’s a really weak statement.

    Two MPs SPECULATE
    That a cabinet minister COULD
    Be on the VERGE of quitting

    How many caveats do you need?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    ...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    SKS fans please explain why your boy can't beat the Telegraph wet dream non existent leader!!
    Can anyone beat a wet dream non existent leader? Surely that’s the whole point of wet dream non existent leaders appearing in non serious political polling.

    The only serious thing to all this is the damage yougov are doing to themselves - credibility is so important not just in political polling but all market research - are they Ratnering themselves?
    Truss could. She’s unbeaten in the leadership votes she’s competed in this decade.
    She wasn't beaten at a general election either. She didn't have any bad local election results under her leadership. I don't think she even lost a by-election.
  • Jonathan said:


    Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .

    That’s a really weak statement.

    Two MPs SPECULATE
    That a cabinet minister COULD
    Be on the VERGE of quitting

    How many caveats do you need?
    Its almost as weak as Sunak as PM.

  • Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .

    Sadly the MPs are Simon Clarke and Simon Clarke.

  • Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .

    Sadly the MPs are Simon Clarke and Simon Clarke.
    You forgot about Clarke, Simon.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    @kitty_donaldson

    Simon Clarke’s long-anticipated public ‘tantrum’ not causing much worry in government circles tonight.

    Reminder: 53 Tory rebels needed to spark a leadership contest - numbers a dozen at most
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Blimey, Republican politicians are stupid.
    https://twitter.com/theliamnissan/status/1749879551201550472
  • MikeL said:

    GE polls all over the place.

    Latest two National polls (Bullfinch and Morning Consult) have Trump leading Biden by 5%.

    But new Susquehana Pennsylvania poll has Biden leading Trump by 8%!

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    That's often the case with state v national polls.

    The point has been made, though, that Biden has focused pretty relentlessly on swing states, and the assumption that if the win in November goes to the candidate with fewer votes, that necessarily means GOP, is perhaps rather flawed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    17m
    Tories trying to start another leadership contest is v much that one incredibly over dramatic friend you have where eventually you just start hiding from their calls. Fine, you go off if you want to, but it’s just too exhausting
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    I don't think 35 year olds should be knighted, generally speaking. Thinking of Simon Clarke.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited January 23

    Foxy said:

    Was this really the question?

    "Lord Frost and friends have asked a fascinatingly skewed YouGov poll question between these 3 options

    1) Rishi Sunak
    2) Keir Starner
    3) imaginary new Conservative leader who stops the boats, cuts immigration, delivers lower taxes, better NHS, lower crime!"

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1749914073766989882?t=UJJXRRdwrHEdTgE4Owscxw&s=19

    If Yougov really asked such a skewed question then they will be the laughing stock of the polling world. That's Trafalgar bad!



    Meet him at the crossroads.
    Noele says no
    Noele Reizwäsche from the German ‘schmutzig reden’ folk takes, who refused to sell her soul to the devil to save her husbands life? When he died she married the baker because she liked the way he frosted buns? 🤔
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    Not by the Nazis they weren’t.
    They were, just not Aryan
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    Sam Freedman
    @Samfr
    ·
    1h
    What I want to know is how many magic lamps Starmer has and where he found them all.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    MikeL said:

    GE polls all over the place.

    Latest two National polls (Bullfinch and Morning Consult) have Trump leading Biden by 5%.

    But new Susquehana Pennsylvania poll has Biden leading Trump by 8%!

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    That's often the case with state v national polls.

    The point has been made, though, that Biden has focused pretty relentlessly on swing states, and the assumption that if the win in November goes to the candidate with fewer votes, that necessarily means GOP, is perhaps rather flawed.
    Can you imagine if Biden won against the popular vote? It would be both hilarious and also very dangerous given what Trump did last time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Nigelb said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
    Of course it has no validity as a poll, but it is quite an interesting psephological exercise. Presumably the 'blankety blank' candidate was still labelled as a Tory, so it goes to show that the participants are not carrying implacable resentment about the Tories into the election - as most voters do, they will act rationally thinking about the future, rather than based on the past.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    Oh read the judgment for heaven's sake instead of pretending, as always, that you know more about the law than the Supreme Court.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    SKS fans please explain why your boy can't beat the Telegraph wet dream non existent leader!!
    Can anyone beat a wet dream non existent leader? Surely that’s the whole point of wet dream non existent leaders appearing in non serious political polling.

    The only serious thing to all this is the damage yougov are doing to themselves - credibility is so important not just in political polling but all market research - are they Ratnering themselves?
    Truss could. She’s unbeaten in the leadership votes she’s competed in this decade.
    She wasn't beaten at a general election either. She didn't have any bad local election results under her leadership. I don't think she even lost a by-election.
    Killed the Queen though - so that's a demerit.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    Oh read the judgment for heaven's sake instead of pretending, as always, that you know more about the law than the Supreme Court.
    He's a Tory. Of course he does.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Nigelb said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
    Of course it has no validity as a poll, but it is quite an interesting psephological exercise. Presumably the 'blankety blank' candidate was still labelled as a Tory, so it goes to show that the participants are not carrying implacable resentment about the Tories into the election - as most voters do, they will act rationally thinking about the future, rather than based on the past.
    I agree. Both the Tory and Labour core brands are strong enough to withstand temporary issues. We saw this after ‘92, ‘97, ‘15, and ‘19 when one or other was said to be gone forever.

    The circumstances that killed off the old Liberal Party were pretty unique. Otherwise, the old guard usually endures.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
    More children being deprived of 2 parent families is absolutely not a good thing.

    Domestic abuse can be dealt with by criminal law
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815
    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think 35 year olds should be knighted, generally speaking. Thinking of Simon Clarke.

    Andy Murray knighted at 29. I'd suggest a better idea would be not knighting people who were only given a cabinet post by a newspaper satirist to troll Rishi Sunak over his height.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    Oh read the judgment for heaven's sake instead of pretending, as always, that you know more about the law than the Supreme Court.
    Given some of its recent judgements, maybe I do
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    My avatar speaks;

    The Knives of the Long Knight

    https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1749928587765907732

    But seriously folks,

    1 What the flippety flip does The Telegraph think it's playing at?

    2 Is there any precedent for a government just shrivelling up out of sheer embarrassment? In theory, things can carry on like this for about a year, but how?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479


    Christopher Hope📝
    @christopherhope
    ·
    29m
    I am picking up speculation from two Conservative MPs that a serving Cabinet minister could be on the verge of quitting to destabilise the Prime Minister further.
    More at
    @GBNEWS
    .

    Sadly the MPs are Simon Clarke and Simon Clarke.
    You forgot about Clarke, Simon.
    And S. Richard Clarke.

    Pressure mounts.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    In different places and at different times, ethnic categories shift and change. They are social constructs.

    The standard census questions on ethnicity that are widely used in the UK do not have a box for Jewish: I presume most Jews in the UK would tick "White British", but certainly not all.

    However, with respect to equality law, the UK legal position is very clear that Jewish counts as a race. The same applies to Sikhs: no box on the census, but the law says they are a race for these purposes.
    'Employers must not discriminate against a Jewish candidate on the basis of their religion or religious requirements.'
    https://bod.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Employers-Guide-to-Judaism2.pdf
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    That’s not what the court said. We’ve provided multiple links where you can check this stuff.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    In different places and at different times, ethnic categories shift and change. They are social constructs.

    The standard census questions on ethnicity that are widely used in the UK do not have a box for Jewish: I presume most Jews in the UK would tick "White British", but certainly not all.

    However, with respect to equality law, the UK legal position is very clear that Jewish counts as a race. The same applies to Sikhs: no box on the census, but the law says they are a race for these purposes.
    I usually tick "any other white background"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    Jews have always been considered a people (an ethic group if you prefer) by themselves and others. You betray a profound and worrying ignorance by confusing the Jewish People with Judaism as a religion.
    Judaism is a religion, even more concerning is your ludicrous left liberal assertion that the descendants of the followers of Moses do not belong to a religion!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    TimS said:

    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    All he needs to do is cut taxes, deport half the NHS staff, then cut waiting times.
    It’s a hilarious poll, but it does demonstrate that the Conservative brand is not totally destroyed. Just as the Labour brand wasn’t destroyed under Corbyn or Foot.

    It would be very interesting to run a poll comparing a fantasy perfect Tory leader with a fantasy perfect Labour leader. But with each having a different party-appropriate imaginary superpower. So for example the Tory would cut taxes for everyone, abolish wokery and slash immigration. The Labour PM would cut NHS waiting lists, abolish homelessness and make the trains go on time.
    I’m being serious in saying you are on to something. Tonight’s poll was comedy time comparing reality with longed for fantasy - but fantasy versus fantasy highlighting the slant political parties bring Would be an inspired black mirror we could actually learn about the electorate from. And why limit it to just political research?

    Copyright the idea immediately under the title Unicorn Deathmatch Research Theory.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    @HYUFD — This is from the Crown Prosecution Service:

    “There has been a legal ruling that Sikhs can be included in the definition of a racial group (Mandla v Dowell-Lee [1983] 2 AC 548). In the Mandla case, reference is made to the judgment in King-Ansell v Police [1979] 2 NZLR 531 as being a persuasive authority for Jews being included in the definition of a racial group as well as a religious group. Although not criminal cases, further support for this proposition can be found in the cases of R v JFS [2009] UKSC 15 which related to the legality of the admission policy of a Jewish secondary school and Seide v Gillette Industries Ltd [1980] IRLR 427 in which an Employment Appeal Tribunal ruled that anti-Semitic comments made by a fellow-worker were made because he was a member of the Jewish race, not because of his religion.”

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
    More children being deprived of 2 parent families is absolutely not a good thing.

    Domestic abuse can be dealt with by criminal law
    More children having 2 happy parents in separate abodes instead of 2 unhappy parents in one is a good thing.

    Is having 2 happy parents at home ideal? Of course it is. But life isn't perfect, and we need to deal with imperfections the best way we can and sometimes that means separation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    MikeL said:

    GE polls all over the place.

    Latest two National polls (Bullfinch and Morning Consult) have Trump leading Biden by 5%.

    But new Susquehana Pennsylvania poll has Biden leading Trump by 8%!

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    I am sure Biden would take losing the popular vote by 5% if he won Pennsylvania and the other key swing states
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    I am sure that Simon Clarke's desire for a new PM to replace Sunak will be met.
    By the end of 2024.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    @HYUFD — would you prefer advice from ACAS? https://www.acas.org.uk/race-discrimination
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    The Nazis killed non practicing, atheist and converted Jews enthusiastically. They viewed Jews as an ethnic group, rather than primarily a religion.
    Judaism is a religion however, not a nationality (even in Israel) or a race
    "Races" don't exist. They are thus nothing or anything, whatever people call them. UK law says you can be racist against Jews (and Sikhs), so in that sense they are a race. One could describe the Jewish people as an ethnoreligious group, like Sikhs, Druze, Yazidis etc. There is no agreed, overarching rule for who is or is not Jewish from a religious perspective, as there isn't for any religion.
    Jews are generally considered racially white
    'Generally' by the eight remaining active members of your local party association?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    My avatar speaks;

    The Knives of the Long Knight

    https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1749928587765907732

    But seriously folks,

    1 What the flippety flip does The Telegraph think it's playing at?

    2 Is there any precedent for a government just shrivelling up out of sheer embarrassment? In theory, things can carry on like this for about a year, but how?

    Wait. That is actually an MP with the post it on his head?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
    More children being deprived of 2 parent families is absolutely not a good thing.

    Domestic abuse can be dealt with by criminal law
    More children having 2 happy parents in separate abodes instead of 2 unhappy parents in one is a good thing.

    Is having 2 happy parents at home ideal? Of course it is. But life isn't perfect, and we need to deal with imperfections the best way we can and sometimes that means separation.
    No it isn't except in your narcissistic libertarian utopia.

    As most children will attest, they prefer having both their parents at home, short of domestic violence the odd parental row should be no grounds for divorce
  • I am sure that Simon Clarke's desire for a new PM to replace Sunak will be met.
    By the end of 2024.

    I'm sure it will by the end of January 2025.

    I'm not sure Sunak isn't that bad, and that desperate, that he won't wait until January 2025.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    ·
    1h

    Clarke cannot really think that he is going to succeed in removing Sunak before the General Election. This is about preparing to pin the blame on Sunak for the General Election defeat as part of a strategy to move the party further to the right in opposition.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    Quincel said:

    Values and Fighting more important than Temperament and Electability. Sounds more like Trump than Haley, not that this stuff is super-useful.


    Wouldn’t “believes in democracy” come under “shares my values”?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited January 23
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
    More children being deprived of 2 parent families is absolutely not a good thing.

    Domestic abuse can be dealt with by criminal law
    More children having 2 happy parents in separate abodes instead of 2 unhappy parents in one is a good thing.

    Is having 2 happy parents at home ideal? Of course it is. But life isn't perfect, and we need to deal with imperfections the best way we can and sometimes that means separation.
    No it isn't except in your narcissistic libertarian utopia.

    As most children will attest, they prefer having both their parents at home, short of domestic violence the odd parental row should be no grounds for divorce
    What the flippety flip are you on about?

    Yes children in happy homes want to stay that way.

    Divorce is about more than the odd parental row though, you utter dipshit.

    And I know many people who were relieved when their parents separated, as it put an end to the hate and the fighting being inside the house constantly.

    Its like getting a bad tooth removed. You don't want to lose a tooth, but if you have a painful rotten one, then sometimes extraction is best. Nobody wants divorce, but if you have a painful rotten marriage ...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    'When people were asked who they would prefer as prime minister –Sir Keir or a new, tax-cutting Tory leader with a tougher approach to legal and illegal migration – voters in 322 constituencies in England and Wales preferred a new Tory leader, while Sir Keir came out on top in only 164 seats.

    In 89 constituencies the most common answer was “not sure”. If the “not sure” respondents are stripped out, a new Tory is most popular in 375 constituencies to 200.'

    If you believe that and of course the alternative Tory leader wasn't named....'The poll did not present respondents with names of possible alternative Tory leaders, but asked if they would prefer as prime minister: Sir Keir or a new Tory leader who was stronger on crime and migration, who cut taxes and got NHS waiting lists down.'
    So basically if Sunak achieved that it could even be him
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/23/oust-sunak-election-massacre-warns-cabinet-ally-simon-clark/
    SKS fans please explain why your boy can't beat the Telegraph wet dream non existent leader!!
    Can anyone beat a wet dream non existent leader? Surely that’s the whole point of wet dream non existent leaders appearing in non serious political polling.

    The only serious thing to all this is the damage yougov are doing to themselves - credibility is so important not just in political polling but all market research - are they Ratnering themselves?
    Truss could. She’s unbeaten in the leadership votes she’s competed in this decade.
    What a woman.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    edited January 23
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
    Of course it has no validity as a poll, but it is quite an interesting psephological exercise. Presumably the 'blankety blank' candidate was still labelled as a Tory, so it goes to show that the participants are not carrying implacable resentment about the Tories into the election - as most voters do, they will act rationally thinking about the future, rather than based on the past.
    I agree. Both the Tory and Labour core brands are strong enough to withstand temporary issues. We saw this after ‘92, ‘97, ‘15, and ‘19 when one or other was said to be gone forever.

    The circumstances that killed off the old Liberal Party were pretty unique. Otherwise, the old guard usually endures.
    I have always said that a new leader could still emerge at this stage, and with a strong, popular platform, and sufficient determination to acheive some of it, they could get a very different GE outcome than the one Sunak is cruising toward. It is no surprise that our SKS supporters are against this happening, because they realise that his election victory depends on Tory shitness continuing.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    That’s not what the court said. We’ve provided multiple links where you can check this stuff.
    First rule of PB - @HYUFD is never wrong
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    @HYUFD — I think this is the relevant Supreme Court judgment if you want more detail, https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2009-0105-judgment.pdf
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412


    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    ·
    1h

    Clarke cannot really think that he is going to succeed in removing Sunak before the General Election. This is about preparing to pin the blame on Sunak for the General Election defeat as part of a strategy to move the party further to the right in opposition.

    'Pin the blame' for an election defeat on the serving Prime Minister?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Who cares how tall Clarkey and Rishy are? Both are 100% helmet and that is the only measurement that matters

    I have no idea why race, religion etc are protected characteristics, but people think it’s fine to mock someone over their height. You get the hand you get.
    Making religion a protected characteristic was a terrible mistake.

    People choose their beliefs.
    No it wasn't, ask the survivors of the Holocaust for starters what happened when their religious freedom to be Jewish was not respected by the State
    What has that got to do with anything I said?
    Only freedom of religion would protect Jews under the Equality Act, Judaism is not a race, sex, sexual orientation, disability, marriage state, age or gender reassignment
    Judaism has effectively been declared to be a race by an English court. By the Supreme Court in a decision on the Jewish Free School which was found to have racially discriminated against a practising Jewish boy because his mother was a Catholic convert to Judaism.
    That is religious discrimination against Catholic converts, nothing racial about it
    Oh read the judgment for heaven's sake instead of pretending, as always, that you know more about the law than the Supreme Court.
    Given some of its recent judgements, maybe I do
    Have we reached 'Peak HYUFD'?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
    Of course it has no validity as a poll, but it is quite an interesting psephological exercise. Presumably the 'blankety blank' candidate was still labelled as a Tory, so it goes to show that the participants are not carrying implacable resentment about the Tories into the election - as most voters do, they will act rationally thinking about the future, rather than based on the past.
    I agree. Both the Tory and Labour core brands are strong enough to withstand temporary issues. We saw this after ‘92, ‘97, ‘15, and ‘19 when one or other was said to be gone forever.

    The circumstances that killed off the old Liberal Party were pretty unique. Otherwise, the old guard usually endures.
    I have always said that a new leader could still emerge at this stage, and with a strong, popular platform, and sufficient determination to acheive some of it, they could get a very different GE outcome than the one Sunak is cruising toward. It is no surprise that our SKS supporters are against this happening, because they realise that his election victory depends on Tory shitness continuing.
    Not really. This Labour supporter would be more than happy to see a debilitating Tory leadership election this year, and couldn't really give a toss who wins it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,903
    edited January 23

    @HYUFD — This is from the Crown Prosecution Service:

    “There has been a legal ruling that Sikhs can be included in the definition of a racial group (Mandla v Dowell-Lee [1983] 2 AC 548). In the Mandla case, reference is made to the judgment in King-Ansell v Police [1979] 2 NZLR 531 as being a persuasive authority for Jews being included in the definition of a racial group as well as a religious group. Although not criminal cases, further support for this proposition can be found in the cases of R v JFS [2009] UKSC 15 which related to the legality of the admission policy of a Jewish secondary school and Seide v Gillette Industries Ltd [1980] IRLR 427 in which an Employment Appeal Tribunal ruled that anti-Semitic comments made by a fellow-worker were made because he was a member of the Jewish race, not because of his religion.”

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

    ' A woman seeking housing in east London who alleged racial discrimination when a housing charity reserved its properties for Orthodox Jewish people has lost her case at the supreme court...

    In a ruling that cements positive discrimination as a legitimate way to tackle social disadvantage, the UK’s highest court of appeal found in favour of the Agudas Israel housing association in Stamford Hill after it listed its homes for rent with the caveat of “consideration only to the Orthodox Jewish community”.Handing down judgment, Lord Sales said the lower courts were right that the charity’s use of positive discrimination was proportionate and lawful, under the Equality Act 2010, in order to correct the disadvantage faced by the community. He said the issue was not one of racism as the housing charity discriminated on the grounds of religious observance.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/oct/16/uk-supreme-court-backs-housing-charitys-jewish-only-rule
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    I don't think 35 year olds should be knighted, generally speaking. Thinking of Simon Clarke.

    Andy Murray knighted at 29. I'd suggest a better idea would be not knighting people who were only given a cabinet post by a newspaper satirist to troll Rishi Sunak over his height.
    How about not knighting anybody? That would seem to solve the problem, no bloody messing.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tory source confirms Sir Simon Clarke is calling for a new PM tonight.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1749896775484232116

    Calling for 'a new PM' is all very well but 'generic Tory' isn't an option. Indeed, 'generic Tory' is pretty much the incumbent. If you want a replacement, you really ought to say who that replacement should be.
    This is from last month.

    — plots to oust Sunak are bubbling away under the surface

    — allies of Liz Truss have held talks about coordinating letters

    some of them want Simon Clarke to be the candidate to replace him

    — Truss denies plotting. Clarke says he wants govt to succeed


    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1733417742001156162
    If the answer is Simon Clarke then you're asking the wrong question.
    Unless the question is name a tall Tory who nobody approaching normal has ever heard of?
    And who divorced his wife for a Westminster colleague

    'The 6ft 7in Tory nicknamed Stilts stepped down as minister for regional growth and local government “for personal reasons”.

    But the MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is “head over heels in lust”.

    His teary wife Hannah looked devastated outside their Teesside home yesterday.

    She and Mr Clarke, 35, have a young son together.'
    'https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12648544/married-tory-quit-cheating-wife/
    For a moment I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson.

    You don't choose who you love, love chooses you.
    You do when you are married, you take your vows for life (and Boris at least had charisma for all his flaws in his personal life, unlike Clarke)
    In our case 60 years in May, but if you genuinely believe marriage vows bind you for life then you are incredibly naive and does not reflect reality
    If you aren't committed to keeping them, what is the point of making the vows in the first place?
    You are incredibly naive on this subject

    Of course people making wedding vows are entirely committed to them but circumstances change, relationships change, life changes, and nobody can predict events that overtake relationships often decades after
    It isn't naivety, it is the traditional view of the sacred nature of marriage, also espoused as the ideal by most major religions.

    Or at least it was until the 1960s since when broken families and divorce have surged and many more children don't live with both their biological parents
    And women aren't treated as chattel, raping your wife is no longer legal, and the world is a far better place, yes.
    In terms of family break and the decline of marriage it most certainly isn't
    People no longer being forced to remain in abusive or loveless marriages absolutely is a good improvement.

    People remaining to be abused or unhappy is a bad thing, not a good thing.
    More children being deprived of 2 parent families is absolutely not a good thing.

    Domestic abuse can be dealt with by criminal law
    More children having 2 happy parents in separate abodes instead of 2 unhappy parents in one is a good thing.

    Is having 2 happy parents at home ideal? Of course it is. But life isn't perfect, and we need to deal with imperfections the best way we can and sometimes that means separation.
    No it isn't except in your narcissistic libertarian utopia.

    As most children will attest, they prefer having both their parents at home, short of domestic violence the odd parental row should be no grounds for divorce
    What the flippety flip are you on about?

    Yes children in happy homes want to stay that way.

    Divorce is about more than the odd parental row though, you utter dipshit.

    And I know many people who were relieved when their parents separated, as it put an end to the hate and the fighting being inside the house constantly.

    Its like getting a bad tooth removed. You don't want to lose a tooth, but if you have a painful rotten one, then sometimes extraction is best. Nobody wants divorce, but if you have a painful rotten marriage ...
    STOP TALKING THE TORY CHANCES DOWN!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited January 23

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Er... really?

    @Telegraph
    🔵 Oust Sunak or Tories face election massacre, warns former Cabinet ally

    A YouGov poll suggests that a new Tory leader could secure a convincing victory over Labour


    image

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1749907390948909452?s=20

    Hahahahaha.

    That's a piss take isn't it ?

    Replacing Rishi with a lanky streak of cat waz isn't going to make any significant difference.
    Of course it has no validity as a poll, but it is quite an interesting psephological exercise. Presumably the 'blankety blank' candidate was still labelled as a Tory, so it goes to show that the participants are not carrying implacable resentment about the Tories into the election - as most voters do, they will act rationally thinking about the future, rather than based on the past.
    I agree. Both the Tory and Labour core brands are strong enough to withstand temporary issues. We saw this after ‘92, ‘97, ‘15, and ‘19 when one or other was said to be gone forever.

    The circumstances that killed off the old Liberal Party were pretty unique. Otherwise, the old guard usually endures.
    I have always said that a new leader could still emerge at this stage, and with a strong, popular platform, and sufficient determination to acheive some of it, they could get a very different GE outcome than the one Sunak is cruising toward. It is no surprise that our SKS supporters are against this happening, because they realise that his election victory depends on Tory shitness continuing.
    They said that when they changed leader to Truss. They said it again when they changed leader to Sunak. And now they’re saying it again. How many times until they get the hint?


This discussion has been closed.