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Why it won’t be ‘The Sun wot won it’ in 2024 – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, has anyone seen that Biden is putting out campaign ads stating Harris will be his running mate again?

    Not that it was ever terribly likely he would ditch her.

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1748852407532966338

    Biden has been trying to shore up Black support recently so it shouldn't come as a surprise. He cannot ditch Harris.

    If there is one possible subliminal message, it is that Joe and Kamala are tied together i.e. if he steps down pre-election, so will she.

    I note that @MrEd is alive and well and walks among us.
    He does and is still carrying around a lot of cash.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,646

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    Many - perhaps most - PBers own cars that don’t work - some of which cannot be driven at 20mph. So, it doesn’t surprise me.
    I've discovered some remarkable stats on Welsh drivers that I'm looking forward to deploying at some point.

    My favourite has been the real Finland scandal - the vegan conspiracy against high mortality rates.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    Oh go on then. In for a penny, in for a pound.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    edited January 21

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    For sheer delusional chutzpah, this comes quite close.
    https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status/1749174629799977086
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    If he really wants constitutional government to endure, he would support the Democrats.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,815
    ydoethur said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown not only smearing others for breaking the actual

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    @noneoftheabove

    I'm blaming you for setting him off.
    Apologies my account was hacked by the AI.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    Scott_xP said:

    @HollyHNews

    Flight from Heathrow to Belfast City just gave up trying to land after a pretty terrifying attempt.. now en route to Manchester. Not sure how much better the weather is there but hopefully stand a better chance.

    So that tweet only just sent but we’ve just landed in Manchester 🙏 Scary biscuits above Belfast. I’ve never been as happy to see
    @manairport #StormIsha

    This flight from Manchester to Dublin was diverted to Paris!

    https://twitter.com/KevBeirne/status/1749173390944932083

    image
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cicero said:

    Good evening

    I expect most of us are experiencing this seriously dangerous storm and in Capel Curig a wind speed of 90 mph has been recorded with expectations it will exceed 100mph later tonight

    Yesterday the RNLI launched a multi search and rescue in the Irish Sea, including the Llandudno and Rhyl lifeboats, for a man overboard the Irish ferry who was recovered by the coastguard helicopter but sadly died in hospital. Notwithstanding the crews took to sea in atrocious conditions in an attempt to save a life as they always will

    The media, coastguard, and RNLI are warning people to stay away from the coast and indeed anywhere, as it is highly dangerous to be out in these exceptional conditions

    However, the broadcast media are wholly irresponsible allowing their journalist to report outside in these conditions, even standing alongside sea walls - what on earth are they thinking, even if indeed they are thinking, and what example it is to others

    Keep safe everyone

    Nobody living more than five miles from the sea really appreciates the risk that people like Big G junior take to save other people.
    On reflection, it was when the right wing nutters began to attack the RNLI for rescuing people from "the boats" that we realised that they had fled all reason (and were also a bunch of utter bastards).
    Quite so on both.

    And when HM Government started targeting the RNLI* in its proposed legislation, though as I recall some right-wingers found it very difficult to put 2 plus 2 together and accept that the supposed party of law, order and tradition really was trying to castrate one of the UK (and RoI)'s most eminent charities. Like burning down the National Trust's Cliveden or pouring weedkiller on the Cerne Abbas Giant's nether bits.

    *everyone from senior management to the shore volunteers would have been liable. And it would have been conspiracy a priori, added on.
    Attacking the charity that regularly saves those hard-core Marxists - retiree yacht sailors
    I thought "retiree yacht sailors" were all traitors, helping the Kaiser to invade Norfolk?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
    Barely Presidential....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited January 21

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    I suspect Ron De Sanctimonious meant to say "to ensure that constitutional government is ordure".
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Indie run?



    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    18m
    Just now on CNN, Nikki Haley refused to say if she would support Trump if he became the GOP nominee. 👀

    He has already spent lots of time dissing her.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    Nigelb said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    For sheer delusional chutzpah, this comes quite close.
    https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status/1749174629799977086
    Musk is just an ordinary guy, y'know. :)
  • Totally off topic, but a local topic that I cannot get my head around.

    Manchester ain't rich, certainly not by London or much of European standards, yet the centre has seen a massive boom in recent years and this is just accelerating faster and faster.

    New like https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/salboy-unveils-plans-76-storey-viadux-phase-two/

    Just look at the volume and scale of the in construction and planned tall buildings in the city in the next couple of years (scroll right down)...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Greater_Manchester

    This does not appear to be happening elsewhere in the UK, away from London.

    It does not appear to be hugely impacting on the region away from about 3km radius of St Peter's Square and the corridor down to MediaCity.

    So what has caused this ? Can and should it try to be replicated to boost the economy of other parts of the country or is it just one huge Ponzi scheme that will all one day collapse leaving loads of debt ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
    If they cannot understand EV controls, which are basically the same as any automatic ICE vehicle, should they be driving on public roads whatever their age?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    Many - perhaps most - PBers own cars that don’t work - some of which cannot be driven at 20mph. So, it doesn’t surprise me.
    I've discovered some remarkable stats on Welsh drivers that I'm looking forward to deploying at some point.

    My favourite has been the real Finland scandal - the vegan conspiracy against high mortality rates.
    I must have missed the Finland thing. The Welsh nonsense amuses daily though. I have told several PBers that it’s been 20mph ubiquitously here in my north London locale for a good while now, and that you soon get used to it, and that it actually makes driving more pleasant and smoother.

    They just shout back: DRAKE! CASH! DRAKE! UXBRIDGE! CASH! DRAKE!

    I worry about the poor lambs, a lot.

  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169


    This has been a good idea electorally for ages for Labour. "Lock them up"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
    Barely Presidential....
    Our previous Head of State made it to 96...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479



    This has been a good idea electorally for ages for Labour. "Lock them up"

    Yep. And renationalise water while they are at it.
  • Totally off topic, but a local topic that I cannot get my head around.

    Manchester ain't rich, certainly not by London or much of European standards, yet the centre has seen a massive boom in recent years and this is just accelerating faster and faster.

    New like https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/salboy-unveils-plans-76-storey-viadux-phase-two/

    Just look at the volume and scale of the in construction and planned tall buildings in the city in the next couple of years (scroll right down)...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Greater_Manchester

    This does not appear to be happening elsewhere in the UK, away from London.

    It does not appear to be hugely impacting on the region away from about 3km radius of St Peter's Square and the corridor down to MediaCity.

    So what has caused this ? Can and should it try to be replicated to boost the economy of other parts of the country or is it just one huge Ponzi scheme that will all one day collapse leaving loads of debt ?

    A lot of Middle Eastern property money has targeted Manchester - the UAE ownership of Manchester City being the primary factor.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
    If they cannot understand EV controls, which are basically the same as any automatic ICE vehicle, should they be driving on public roads whatever their age?
    No.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Do you not think inciting the storming of Congress in order to prevent the election results is a "danger to democracy"?

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited January 21

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    Many - perhaps most - PBers own cars that don’t work - some of which cannot be driven at 20mph. So, it doesn’t surprise me.
    I've discovered some remarkable stats on Welsh drivers that I'm looking forward to deploying at some point.

    My favourite has been the real Finland scandal - the vegan conspiracy against high mortality rates.
    I must have missed the Finland thing. The Welsh nonsense amuses daily though. I have told several PBers that it’s been 20mph ubiquitously here in my north London locale for a good while now, and that you soon get used to it, and that it actually makes driving more pleasant and smoother.

    They just shout back: DRAKE! CASH! DRAKE! UXBRIDGE! CASH! DRAKE!

    I worry about the poor lambs, a lot.

    I would just gently suggest you have no idea of the position of the 30 - 20 Welsh reduction scheme just as I have no idea about London matters

    When the Welsh Labour government, Plaid, Local Authorities and even Labour mps agree it has been badly implemented, and a review has been agreed by all parties this spring, then maybe best to become better informed on Welsh matters

    BBC News - Wales' 20mph speed limit: Top Labour MP calls for review
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67377048
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited January 21
    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859



    This has been a good idea electorally for ages for Labour. "Lock them up"

    Or put them in the dock, as it says there. Then let some sewage in.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Yes or no?

    "Ian Sansom
    Have we all become more paranoid since the pandemic?
    Covid-19 proved devastating to our self-confidence and faith in others, says Daniel Freeman, who describes the ‘corrosive’ effects of mistrust on individuals and society"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/have-we-all-become-more-paranoid-since-the-pandemic/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Totally off topic, but a local topic that I cannot get my head around.

    Manchester ain't rich, certainly not by London or much of European standards, yet the centre has seen a massive boom in recent years and this is just accelerating faster and faster.

    New like https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/salboy-unveils-plans-76-storey-viadux-phase-two/

    Just look at the volume and scale of the in construction and planned tall buildings in the city in the next couple of years (scroll right down)...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Greater_Manchester

    This does not appear to be happening elsewhere in the UK, away from London.

    It does not appear to be hugely impacting on the region away from about 3km radius of St Peter's Square and the corridor down to MediaCity.

    So what has caused this ? Can and should it try to be replicated to boost the economy of other parts of the country or is it just one huge Ponzi scheme that will all one day collapse leaving loads of debt ?

    This sort of thing is really important if we’re going to get proper economic concentration in second cities and their surrounding regions, so it’s good it’s happening. The article says 20 towers over 100m constructed and a further 12 in progress. Good - that will give the skyline a boost and potentially take Manchester ahead of Canary Wharf which per Wikipedia has 28 towers over 100m currently completed.

    I was in Leeds last week and, pleasant enough city that it is, it just feels so small and provincial for what is, from memory, something like the 4th or 5th biggest city in the country. Manchester at least has a sense of being a proper city, as do Edinburgh, Glasgow and, despite its diminutive size, Liverpool.

    Taking GDP contribution though, Manchester seems to be surprisingly far down the table. Look at this:

    https://ifamagazine.com/gdp-growth-the-uk-cities-set-to-achieve-the-largest-gdp-growth-by-2030/

    City of London, then Westminster (no surprise), followed by Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Tower Hamlets (ie Canary Wharf), Belfast, then Manchester (followed by Camden then Birmingham). And Brighton a touch ahead of Leeds.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I don't think democracy will die either completely or permanently if Trump becomes President again, but it will be damaged certainly.

    Democracy is not all or nothing, there are graduations, but it would be in retreat, much like Hungary or similar.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    IanB2 said:



    This has been a good idea electorally for ages for Labour. "Lock them up"

    Or put them in the dock, as it says there. Then let some sewage in.
    Along with Post Office bosses, energy company bosses, tory party donators, Ms and Mr Mone. Although, how would you be able to distinguish the shit from the shit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Andy_JS said:

    Yes or no?

    "Ian Sansom
    Have we all become more paranoid since the pandemic?
    Covid-19 proved devastating to our self-confidence and faith in others, says Daniel Freeman, who describes the ‘corrosive’ effects of mistrust on individuals and society"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/have-we-all-become-more-paranoid-since-the-pandemic/

    It certainly seems true of him, but I don't think that true of everyone.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I agree 100% about Trump and the thought of him as POTUS appalls me just as Johnson has in backing him

    I am genuinely politically homeless
    Is that such a bad thing? After being SNP right or wrong until Sturgeon, it’s refreshing to vote for the best candidate, irrespective of party.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited January 21
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I don't think democracy will die either completely or permanently if Trump becomes President again, but it will be damaged certainly.

    Democracy is not all or nothing, there are graduations, but it would be in retreat, much like Hungary or similar.
    The possible saving grace is his age. The fact Biden is even older disguises Trump’s proximity to death or at least infirmity. When Erdogan, Modi, Orban or Putin attained power they had decades of consolidation ahead of them, plenty of the time to make the état about moi.

    There is not at this juncture an obvious Trump 2. It would need to be a family affair I think, a monarchical succession like in N Korea. But that is easier after 20 years of consolidating your power base than after 4 years and in the face of a hugely divided ruling elite.

    He’d need to engineer a change to presidential term limits to stay on, or hand to Ivanka / Jared for 2028. I think that gives him a big handicap.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I don't think democracy will die either completely or permanently if Trump becomes President again, but it will be damaged certainly.

    Democracy is not all or nothing, there are graduations, but it would be in retreat, much like Hungary or similar.
    Bear in mind his role model is Vlad the Impaler. I suspect vengeance will be swift and brutal. I would suggest the Bidens, the Clintons the Obamas, Bill Barr and Chris Wray don't stand near windows. Tony Schwartz said last time he had a plane on standby to take him out of the country should the need arise.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Yes or no?

    "Ian Sansom
    Have we all become more paranoid since the pandemic?
    Covid-19 proved devastating to our self-confidence and faith in others, says Daniel Freeman, who describes the ‘corrosive’ effects of mistrust on individuals and society"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/have-we-all-become-more-paranoid-since-the-pandemic/

    It certainly seems true of him, but I don't think that true of everyone.
    I don’t see any evidence around me to support his assertion. Covid and the lockdowns have damaged us in multiple ways but I don’t think they’ve done anything to people’s trust in each other. Social media on the other hand…
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Got pretty windy wild in last 30mins here in the swamps of east midlands.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Got pretty windy wild in last 30mins here in the swamps of east midlands.

    Wheelie bins down in SE4.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited January 21

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I agree 100% about Trump and the thought of him as POTUS appalls me just as Johnson has in backing him

    I am genuinely politically homeless
    Is that such a bad thing? After being SNP right or wrong until Sturgeon, it’s refreshing to vote for the best candidate, irrespective of party.

    Possibly but not sure any of the candidates in my constituency are better than each other

    I will cross that bridge when it comes along but as of now my health and imminent pacemaker operation is all that matters to both myself and my family having had 4 months of potentially serious health issues
  • IanB2 said:



    This has been a good idea electorally for ages for Labour. "Lock them up"

    Or put them in the dock, as it says there. Then let some sewage in.
    Along with Post Office bosses, energy company bosses, tory party donators, Ms and Mr Mone. Although, how would you be able to distinguish the shit from the shit.
    And many more
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    Dominic Pino
    @DominicJPino
    DeSantis drops out with a fake Churchill quote.

    International Churchill Society: "We can find no attribution for either one of these . . . They are found nowhere in his canon . . . An almost equal number of sources found online credit these sayings to Abraham Lincoln"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited January 21
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cicero said:

    Good evening

    I expect most of us are experiencing this seriously dangerous storm and in Capel Curig a wind speed of 90 mph has been recorded with expectations it will exceed 100mph later tonight

    Yesterday the RNLI launched a multi search and rescue in the Irish Sea, including the Llandudno and Rhyl lifeboats, for a man overboard the Irish ferry who was recovered by the coastguard helicopter but sadly died in hospital. Notwithstanding the crews took to sea in atrocious conditions in an attempt to save a life as they always will

    The media, coastguard, and RNLI are warning people to stay away from the coast and indeed anywhere, as it is highly dangerous to be out in these exceptional conditions

    However, the broadcast media are wholly irresponsible allowing their journalist to report outside in these conditions, even standing alongside sea walls - what on earth are they thinking, even if indeed they are thinking, and what example it is to others

    Keep safe everyone

    Nobody living more than five miles from the sea really appreciates the risk that people like Big G junior take to save other people.
    On reflection, it was when the right wing nutters began to attack the RNLI for rescuing people from "the boats" that we realised that they had fled all reason (and were also a bunch of utter bastards).
    Quite so on both.

    And when HM Government started targeting the RNLI* in its proposed legislation, though as I recall some right-wingers found it very difficult to put 2 plus 2 together and accept that the supposed party of law, order and tradition really was trying to castrate one of the UK (and RoI)'s most eminent charities. Like burning down the National Trust's Cliveden or pouring weedkiller on the Cerne Abbas Giant's nether bits.

    *everyone from senior management to the shore volunteers would have been liable. And it would have been conspiracy a priori, added on.
    Attacking the charity that regularly saves those hard-core Marxists - retiree yacht sailors
    Further to this - look what crops up:SKS to defend the CA Giant and BigG's boy's boat.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/21/starmer-defend-rnli-national-trust-desperate-tory-culture-war

    Remember - the wokery sniffers out were infuriated by the NT displaying an anti-slavery statue at Cragside in Northumberland.

    Yes, the statue, bought for that very reason by Armstrong the original owner, and displayed in thje very niche which he intended for it. Preserving the past? Forget it with the "Conservative" party.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    TimS said:

    Got pretty windy wild in last 30mins here in the swamps of east midlands.

    Wheelie bins down in SE4.
    Not too bad in Ilford - so far!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 21

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

    if he was elected again, depends if the army support him or not, in Jan 2021 when he was still President they didn't support attempts to overturn the election result
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    isam said:
    A cartoonist has to be pretty witless if he can't figure out a way of criticising Israel's actions in Gaza without producing a precise illustration of the "blood libel".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    He really f***in' is. Read his (garbled) proclamations, watch his role on January 6th. Remember he incited a (fortunately failed) coup d'etat.

    You do have the propensity for unwise sweeping statements, but if Trump wins this time he won't make the same mistakes he made last time. He and his goons are extremely dangerous. He can't read the Constitution so he couldn't care less about the Founding Fathers and their attempt to prevent the USA from falling into the hands of someone like Trump.
    I agree 100% about Trump and the thought of him as POTUS appalls me just as Johnson has in backing him

    I am genuinely politically homeless
    Is that such a bad thing? After being SNP right or wrong until Sturgeon, it’s refreshing to vote for the best candidate, irrespective of party.

    Possibly but not sure any of the candidates in my constituency are better than each other

    I will cross that bridge when it comes along but as of now my health and imminent pacemaker operation is all that matters to both myself and my family having had 4 months of potentially serious health issues
    Best of wishes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748


    Dominic Pino
    @DominicJPino
    DeSantis drops out with a fake Churchill quote.

    International Churchill Society: "We can find no attribution for either one of these . . . They are found nowhere in his canon . . . An almost equal number of sources found online credit these sayings to Abraham Lincoln"

    "If Trump were my president, I would put poison in my coffee"?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Yes or no?

    "Ian Sansom
    Have we all become more paranoid since the pandemic?
    Covid-19 proved devastating to our self-confidence and faith in others, says Daniel Freeman, who describes the ‘corrosive’ effects of mistrust on individuals and society"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/have-we-all-become-more-paranoid-since-the-pandemic/

    It certainly seems true of him, but I don't think that true of everyone.
    Quite a few appear to be totally relaxed and trusting about another 4 years of Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

    if he was elected again, depends if the army support him or not, in Jan 2021 when he was still President they didn't support attempts to overturn the election result
    He changes the constitution.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897
    edited January 21

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    Social media and its divisions, too much time on phones and laptops and ipads rather than interacting with people, materialist culture, lockdown legacy, breakdown of too many families, decline of organised religion all factors
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507
    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    They could solve their problems immediately by not using social media and smartphones. Why doesn't anyone say this?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

    if he was elected again, depends if the army support him or not, in Jan 2021 when he was still President they didn't support attempts to overturn the election result
    He changes the constitution.

    You need two thirds to approve a proposal to change the constitution in both the House and Senate and then that goes to the state legislatures who must approve that and you need three quarters to agree to it .

    So it’s not going to happen thankfully !



  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,556
    edited January 21

    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?

    Truro, not Totnes.

    Not even the Republicans could gerrymander a constituency that shape....
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507

    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?

    Truro, not Totnes.
    Yes, sorry. Falmouth and Truro.

    Cherilyn Mackrory MP
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?

    Nails and hammer, I believe. Don't think he could nip round to Office Depot for some drawing pins in those days.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Some months ago I saw a piece in the WaPo saying that some American school kids had benefitted from school closing. A minority of kids, but a good reminder that schools and homes are not the same experience, for everyone. It isn't hard to imagine which kinds of kids might benefit; for example, those who had educated parents, with time to spend with their kids, and kids who were bullied at school.

    (One of the more touching things I saw during the pandemic was the Amazon bestseller list. For a time one of the top books was a teach-your kids to print book and, reading the comments, it looked as though many mothers with little educations themselves were doing their best, by using it.)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    ohnotnow said:

    I bought one of these space heaters off Amazon. As usual it's originally from Alibaba but I have to say it works brilliantly to warm me up whilst I sit on the laptop.

    My boiler has been playing up during the cold snap (naturally) and the little space heater I picked up last year has been a god-send. 30 quid well spent.
    Running cost?
    20-30p/hour. So not one to run all day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246

    Some months ago I saw a piece in the WaPo saying that some American school kids had benefitted from school closing. A minority of kids, but a good reminder that schools and homes are not the same experience, for everyone. It isn't hard to imagine which kinds of kids might benefit; for example, those who had educated parents, with time to spend with their kids, and kids who were bullied at school.

    (One of the more touching things I saw during the pandemic was the Amazon bestseller list. For a time one of the top books was a teach-your kids to print book and, reading the comments, it looked as though many mothers with little educations themselves were doing their best, by using it.)

    Shades of the stories of prairie schools where the teacher was a couple of pages ahead of the children she (generally a woman) was teaching.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517
    HYUFD said:

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    Social media and its divisions, too much time on phones and laptops and ipads rather than interacting with people, materialist culture, lockdown legacy, breakdown of too many families, decline of organised religion all factors
    Basically pick whatever your hobbyhorse of choice is and blame that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Great story from the publisher of the New Hampshire Union Leader, John McQuaid.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/20/new-hampshire-newspaper-trump-00136710
    … We go to this thing. I’ve never met Trump in my life. He’s sitting at the same table with me. He gets up on stage. He doesn’t have a prepared speech. But every other sentence he’s pointing at me saying, “Am I right, Joe, am I right?”

    And the lady next to me says, “How long have you known this guy?”

    And I said, “22 minutes.”..
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    Really, really quite 'brisk' here now. I see Sellafield has shut down operations now too.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/sellafield-ltd/about/staff-update

    Owing to severe weather warnings related to Storm Isha, operations at Sellafield have been suspended.

    This is a precautionary step which allows us to safely shut down our operational plants to prepare for predicted worsening weather conditions this evening.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Would you believe this is the voice of a 22 year old ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSo6-NKb5SQ

    DuraAce might recognise the song.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    HYUFD said:

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    Social media and its divisions, too much time on phones and laptops and ipads rather than interacting with people, materialist culture, lockdown legacy, breakdown of too many families, decline of organised religion all factors
    Basically pick whatever your hobbyhorse of choice is and blame that.
    People who use Emacs. I always knew it was them.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    Some months ago I saw a piece in the WaPo saying that some American school kids had benefitted from school closing. A minority of kids, but a good reminder that schools and homes are not the same experience, for everyone. It isn't hard to imagine which kinds of kids might benefit; for example, those who had educated parents, with time to spend with their kids, and kids who were bullied at school.

    (One of the more touching things I saw during the pandemic was the Amazon bestseller list. For a time one of the top books was a teach-your kids to print book and, reading the comments, it looked as though many mothers with little educations themselves were doing their best, by using it.)

    My son thrived during lockdown. The school was excellent at doing online teaching and also making all the classes available for replay so the kids could go bavk over stuff they didn't follow the first time. His scores improved massively before and after lockdown.

    My daughter just starting uni when it all kicked off had a rotten time and Nottingham University were extremely poor at handling lockdown.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    Andy_JS said:

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    They could solve their problems immediately by not using social media and smartphones. Why doesn't anyone say this?
    I'm not seeing where the short-term profit is in this?

    ...

    Actually - Hugh and Jamie 'Save the World' by not looking at their phones for a while. Joined by various other celebs. A campaign! T-shirts! Badges! Stickers! Merch!. Maybe even... an app?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?

    Excommunicated as a result. Although maybe that had something to do with what was on the pamphlet.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    O/T but isn't it a little OTT for the Right Honourable Member for Falmouth and Totnes to send the rozzers round following this protest.

    https://novaramedia.com/2024/01/19/pro-palestine-protester-arrested-for-using-pins-to-put-placard-on-mps-door/

    Yes, the pensioner in question could have used blu-tak but I don't think her use of drawing pins constitutes criminal damage. Or maybe the Public Order Act 2023 demands it now?

    Didn't Martin Luther use drawing pins in Wittenberg?

    Drawing pins are only acceptable if it's a protest against a LEZ or "15 minute city", I think you'll find.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,030
    edited January 21

    ohnotnow said:

    Really, really quite 'brisk' here now. I see Sellafield has shut down operations now too.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/sellafield-ltd/about/staff-update

    Owing to severe weather warnings related to Storm Isha, operations at Sellafield have been suspended.

    This is a precautionary step which allows us to safely shut down our operational plants to prepare for predicted worsening weather conditions this evening.

    I have a 10.30 checkin tomorrow morning to fly to a rig West of Shetlands. God knows why as we sure as hell aren't flying anywhere for the next couple of days.
    In the 48 years at our home here in Llandudno we have not experienced wind speeds as we are now with 90 mph in Capel Curig but also torrential rain adding flooding as a real problem
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    ohnotnow said:

    Really, really quite 'brisk' here now. I see Sellafield has shut down operations now too.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/sellafield-ltd/about/staff-update

    Owing to severe weather warnings related to Storm Isha, operations at Sellafield have been suspended.

    This is a precautionary step which allows us to safely shut down our operational plants to prepare for predicted worsening weather conditions this evening.

    I have a 10.30 checkin tomorrow morning to fly to a rig West of Shetlands. God knows why as we sure as hell aren't flying anywhere for the next couple of days.
    In the 48 years at our home here in Llandudno we have not experienced wind speeds as we are now with 90 mph in Capel Curig but also torrential rain to flooding as a real problem
    I've been in this flat for just over 10 years and this is the first time my cat (yes, I know) has been frantic. It's something more than 'a bit windy'.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Of topic: From time to time, I see comments here about Republicans being unable to win national majorities. Those who make such comments should look, not just at the popular vote for president, but the total popular votes for candidates for the House of Representatives.

    I did a quick look the other day, starting in 1992*, and found that parties had almost equal numbers of majorities; the Republicans had 9, the Democrats 7 in the elections from 1992-2022. (The Republicans had absolute majorities 5 times during the period, the Democrats 4.)

    I think this is a better measure than popular votes for the presidency, because you have twice as many elections to look at, and because it reduces the effect of a single party leader.

    Here's the latest for those who would like to check my hasty work:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections

    *1992 because I think that is when the "modern" party system started. Others would probably pick 1994.

    Caveat: The totals are not as clean as one would like, because some House districts are not contested by both parties, sometimes because a party is so weak in a district it can't find a candidate, and sometimes because the state has "top-two" primaries, so that members of the same party can end up facing each other in the general election.

    There are ways of compensating for both problems, but I haven't decided which is best.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    HYUFD said:

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    Social media and its divisions, too much time on phones and laptops and ipads rather than interacting with people, materialist culture, lockdown legacy, breakdown of too many families, decline of organised religion all factors
    Basically pick whatever your hobbyhorse of choice is and blame that.
    So, as I always suspected, it's @Leon's fault
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    I'm flying into London from Seattle.

    I guess I should expect a bumpy ride...
  • rcs1000 said:

    I'm flying into London from Seattle.

    I guess I should expect a bumpy ride...

    With these wind speeds you may end up back in Seattle !!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    Magnanimous Trump retires DeSanctimonious name.

    https://x.com/margommartin/status/1749183820186652696
  • Nigelb said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    For sheer delusional chutzpah, this comes quite close.
    https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status/1749174629799977086
    The real divide isn't black vs white, or even Democrat vs Republican. Its sane versus crazy.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I'm flying into London from Seattle.

    I guess I should expect a bumpy ride...

    You'll be fine, its bring a warm coat weather.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited January 22
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm flying into London from Seattle.

    I guess I should expect a bumpy ride...

    I was at Heathrow earlier today and it was very quiet in terms of numbers of travellers. An Elizabeth Line train at 11am at Terminal 4 only had about 30 passengers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    Of topic: From time to time, I see comments here about Republicans being unable to win national majorities. Those who make such comments should look, not just at the popular vote for president, but the total popular votes for candidates for the House of Representatives.

    I did a quick look the other day, starting in 1992*, and found that parties had almost equal numbers of majorities; the Republicans had 9, the Democrats 7 in the elections from 1992-2022. (The Republicans had absolute majorities 5 times during the period, the Democrats 4.)

    I think this is a better measure than popular votes for the presidency, because you have twice as many elections to look at, and because it reduces the effect of a single party leader.

    Here's the latest for those who would like to check my hasty work:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections

    *1992 because I think that is when the "modern" party system started. Others would probably pick 1994.

    Caveat: The totals are not as clean as one would like, because some House districts are not contested by both parties, sometimes because a party is so weak in a district it can't find a candidate, and sometimes because the state has "top-two" primaries, so that members of the same party can end up facing each other in the general election.

    There are ways of compensating for both problems, but I haven't decided which is best.

    You also have the problem that the system is heavily gerrymandered.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

    if he was elected again, depends if the army support him or not, in Jan 2021 when he was still President they didn't support attempts to overturn the election result
    He changes the constitution.

    You need two thirds to approve a proposal to change the constitution in both the House and Senate and then that goes to the state legislatures who must approve that and you need three quarters to agree to it .

    So it’s not going to happen thankfully !



    It is little known but there are actually five ways to change the US constitution.

    1: Two thirds of Congress and three quarters of state legislatures.
    2: Two thirds of Congress and three quarters of states conventions.
    3: Two thirds of state legislatures and three quarters of state legislatures.
    4: Two thirds of state legislatures and three quarters of state conventions.
    5: Five ninths of the US Supreme Court dictating that the US constitution is different to how it is written.

    The first four are all impossible, but the last one has come rocketing up from nowhere to now be in prime position.
    Not sure about 5 . The SCOTUS as far as I’ve read can’t amend the US constitution.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    HYUFD said:

    1/2 million kids with mental health issues are on waiting list says Indie front page tonight.

    Social Media, lockdown or over-medicalisation of growing up?

    Hard to know. But something aint right.

    Social media and its divisions, too much time on phones and laptops and ipads rather than interacting with people, materialist culture, lockdown legacy, breakdown of too many families, decline of organised religion all factors
    Basically pick whatever your hobbyhorse of choice is and blame that.
    I don't think those are hobbyhorses, they're real problems.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    More on this, since I wasn't able to read the other article (despite the hack someone mentioned).

    "The North Karelia Project: Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease in Finland Through Population-Based Lifestyle Interventions"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444010/#:~:text=The North Karelia Project was,cholesterol, hypertension, and smoking.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    Many - perhaps most - PBers own cars that don’t work - some of which cannot be driven at 20mph. So, it doesn’t surprise me.
    I've discovered some remarkable stats on Welsh drivers that I'm looking forward to deploying at some point.

    My favourite has been the real Finland scandal - the vegan conspiracy against high mortality rates.
    I must have missed the Finland thing. The Welsh nonsense amuses daily though. I have told several PBers that it’s been 20mph ubiquitously here in my north London locale for a good while now, and that you soon get used to it, and that it actually makes driving more pleasant and smoother.

    They just shout back: DRAKE! CASH! DRAKE! UXBRIDGE! CASH! DRAKE!

    I worry about the poor lambs, a lot.

    I would just gently suggest you have no idea of the position of the 30 - 20 Welsh reduction scheme just as I have no idea about London matters

    When the Welsh Labour government, Plaid, Local Authorities and even Labour mps agree it has been badly implemented, and a review has been agreed by all parties this spring, then maybe best to become better informed on Welsh matters

    BBC News - Wales' 20mph speed limit: Top Labour MP calls for review
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67377048
    A lot of that sounds very political TBH. And the "Top Labour MP" report is from last November.

    AIUI the Welsh Assembly Govt already has monitoring and review built in to their process via their trial areas, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months and then annual reporting process.

    And LHAs have considerable leeway to consider exceptions.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,873
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "to ensure that constitutional government can endure"

    DeSantis.

    Utterly bonkers. Black is white. 2+2=5.

    America has gone mad. Sheer decadency.

    Trump isn't a danger to democracy. Ridiculous to suggest he might be.
    Oh well, we shall have to agree to disagree.

    We shall soon know.

    If they elect him they wont be able to get him out again imho.

    if he was elected again, depends if the army support him or not, in Jan 2021 when he was still President they didn't support attempts to overturn the election result
    He changes the constitution.

    You need two thirds to approve a proposal to change the constitution in both the House and Senate and then that goes to the state legislatures who must approve that and you need three quarters to agree to it .

    So it’s not going to happen thankfully !



    It is little known but there are actually five ways to change the US constitution.

    1: Two thirds of Congress and three quarters of state legislatures.
    2: Two thirds of Congress and three quarters of states conventions.
    3: Two thirds of state legislatures and three quarters of state legislatures.
    4: Two thirds of state legislatures and three quarters of state conventions.
    5: Five ninths of the US Supreme Court dictating that the US constitution is different to how it is written.

    The first four are all impossible, but the last one has come rocketing up from nowhere to now be in prime position.
    Not sure about 5 . The SCOTUS as far as I’ve read can’t amend the US constitution.
    He is making a political point copied from the American crank right, that the Supreme Court can reinterpret the constitution and thus change its meaning.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    The latest campaign video from Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    "RFK Jr.: We Need Disclosure On UFOs"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu1CMHkLXnc
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    82 isn't particularly old these days.
    If they cannot understand EV controls, which are basically the same as any automatic ICE vehicle, should they be driving on public roads whatever their age?
    On elderly and driving, there is currently a review of eyesight requirements, considering broadening the test to better reflect night-vision. Which seems an excellent idea.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,606
    Andy_JS said:

    The latest campaign video from Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    "RFK Jr.: We Need Disclosure On UFOs"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu1CMHkLXnc

    It will probably turn out that they are French spyplanes launched from Guiana.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    You were Curtain Twitcher General throughout lockdown, not only smearing others for breaking the actual rules but also smearing people for breaking what you thought the rules should be.

    I hated the great weather during Lockdown 1. It was rubbing my nose in what might have been; all those great long spring-summer days with friends missed. Yes, I had a garden, yes the sun shone. So what?

    My issue with the lockdowns was before and after going to the shops having to disinfect all the notes and coins.
    As I have said before, the correlation of PBers who are at pains to broadcast how tiresome they find my views on cash yet bring up cash apropos of nothing is extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if they WANT me to discuss it!!
    We recently had PBers arguing against EVs because their 82 year old mothers wouldn't be able to understand the controls.
    Many - perhaps most - PBers own cars that don’t work - some of which cannot be driven at 20mph. So, it doesn’t surprise me.
    I've discovered some remarkable stats on Welsh drivers that I'm looking forward to deploying at some point.

    My favourite has been the real Finland scandal - the vegan conspiracy against high mortality rates.
    I must have missed the Finland thing. The Welsh nonsense amuses daily though. I have told several PBers that it’s been 20mph ubiquitously here in my north London locale for a good while now, and that you soon get used to it, and that it actually makes driving more pleasant and smoother.

    They just shout back: DRAKE! CASH! DRAKE! UXBRIDGE! CASH! DRAKE!

    I worry about the poor lambs, a lot.

    I would just gently suggest you have no idea of the position of the 30 - 20 Welsh reduction scheme just as I have no idea about London matters

    When the Welsh Labour government, Plaid, Local Authorities and even Labour mps agree it has been badly implemented, and a review has been agreed by all parties this spring, then maybe best to become better informed on Welsh matters

    BBC News - Wales' 20mph speed limit: Top Labour MP calls for review
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67377048
    A lot of that sounds very political TBH. And the "Top Labour MP" report is from last November.

    AIUI the Welsh Assembly Govt already has monitoring and review built in to their process via their trial areas, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months and then annual reporting process.

    And LHAs have considerable leeway to consider exceptions.
    The Welsh Government....... The Assembly was replaced by Senedd a few years ago....
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689
    TimS said:

    Totally off topic, but a local topic that I cannot get my head around.

    Manchester ain't rich, certainly not by London or much of European standards, yet the centre has seen a massive boom in recent years and this is just accelerating faster and faster.

    New like https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/salboy-unveils-plans-76-storey-viadux-phase-two/

    Just look at the volume and scale of the in construction and planned tall buildings in the city in the next couple of years (scroll right down)...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Greater_Manchester

    This does not appear to be happening elsewhere in the UK, away from London.

    It does not appear to be hugely impacting on the region away from about 3km radius of St Peter's Square and the corridor down to MediaCity.

    So what has caused this ? Can and should it try to be replicated to boost the economy of other parts of the country or is it just one huge Ponzi scheme that will all one day collapse leaving loads of debt ?

    This sort of thing is really important if we’re going to get proper economic concentration in second cities and their surrounding regions, so it’s good it’s happening. The article says 20 towers over 100m constructed and a further 12 in progress. Good - that will give the skyline a boost and potentially take Manchester ahead of Canary Wharf which per Wikipedia has 28 towers over 100m currently completed.

    I was in Leeds last week and, pleasant enough city that it is, it just feels so small and provincial for what is, from memory, something like the 4th or 5th biggest city in the country. Manchester at least has a sense of being a proper city, as do Edinburgh, Glasgow and, despite its diminutive size, Liverpool.

    Taking GDP contribution though, Manchester seems to be surprisingly far down the table. Look at this:

    https://ifamagazine.com/gdp-growth-the-uk-cities-set-to-achieve-the-largest-gdp-growth-by-2030/

    City of London, then Westminster (no surprise), followed by Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Tower Hamlets (ie Canary Wharf), Belfast, then Manchester (followed by Camden then Birmingham). And Brighton a touch ahead of Leeds.
    There are some huge developments ongoing in Cardiff - see Central Square - Central Quay - Arena - with plenty more coming along the river and along the Central-Queen St corridor
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Morning all, hope everyone survived what sounded like a particularly bad storm last night. My parents lost the roof from their garden shed, which I guess is better than the roof from the top of their house!
This discussion has been closed.