Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Why it won’t be ‘The Sun wot won it’ in 2024 – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • Angela Rayner will be one of the best parts of a Labour Government in terms of connecting with the normal people up and down this country.

    They'd be wise to get her out during the election on the campaign trail as much as possible.

    Can she be trusted to not call the voters scum again?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/21/royal-navy-warships-crashed-into-each-other-due-to-faulty-rewiring-say-sources

    '“HMS Chiddingfold’s motor was wired incorrectly and full ahead gave full astern,” a navy insider said. The vessel had been recently inspected by officers at the maritime capability, trials and assessment team, they added.'

    PS: Not clear whether it was the boat's own ERAs, or some dockyard mateys, who did the rewire. So Mr Shapps might be right in that it wasn't our jolly jack tars' incompetence.

    Reminds me of a long-running documentary series on the Light Programme called The Navy Lark. Ahead, astern, does it matter? Have you seen the sea? It's enormous.
    TBF the incident happened in harbour - seemingly when they cast off and tried to get out, but just reversed into the next vessel along. Like mistaken reverse in a car park.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815

    Angela Rayner will be one of the best parts of a Labour Government in terms of connecting with the normal people up and down this country.

    They'd be wise to get her out during the election on the campaign trail as much as possible.

    Can she be trusted to not call the voters scum again?
    Correction, she called the Tories "scum" :lol:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    So Kids are suffering because of lockdown.
    Why then do the majority who hold such a view favour tax cuts for themselves rather than spending increases on the areas which could help?
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    Angela Rayner will be one of the best parts of a Labour Government in terms of connecting with the normal people up and down this country.

    They'd be wise to get her out during the election on the campaign trail as much as possible.

    Can she be trusted to not call the voters scum again?
    She's very reflective in the Leading interview, have you listened to it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    I have been talking to my neighbour who works in a special school. Apparently since lockdown the number of referrals to the special school has grown exponentially. There is stuff that is hard to contemplate, like a significant proportion of children arriving in to school at age 4 without being potty trained which is supposedly attributed to Covid. What I suspect is most harmful is that kids have missed out on the process of socialisation, going around to each others houses etc. It was a lonely time. I personally couldn't shake off the view that it was all a psycho-drama and revealing of impulses towards totalitarianism but as an introvert with decent living accommodation and a family around me I don't think it bothered me all that much.
    What is the connection between Covid and potty training?
    Unfortunately, the connection is significant.. Such is the social and mental retardation of the Covid cohort of toddlers and infants, four year olds are arriving at nursery schools and they are still not toilet trained

    I have, by the way, heard this from MULTIPLE sources, from reading the blogs of teachers to newspaper articles to hearing of friends’ kids and grandkids to a couple of mates who actually teach these kids and see this daily

    I do not doubt it. This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before
    In my experience it is real and profound. Our child who was at 2 pretty nearly clean and dry before the covid restrictions had a severe developmental regression including this area. It had eventually resolved by the age of 5. I don't really understand it but it's a real thing. If I had the time again I would have broken the rules to give him the socialisation he needed but we obeyed the rules and more so due to the scaremongering.
    PB knows better and @TSE and the like will say you are simply lying
    I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/21/royal-navy-warships-crashed-into-each-other-due-to-faulty-rewiring-say-sources

    '“HMS Chiddingfold’s motor was wired incorrectly and full ahead gave full astern,” a navy insider said. The vessel had been recently inspected by officers at the maritime capability, trials and assessment team, they added.'

    PS: Not clear whether it was the boat's own ERAs, or some dockyard mateys, who did the rewire. So Mr Shapps might be right in that it wasn't our jolly jack tars' incompetence.

    Reminds me of a long-running documentary series on the Light Programme called The Navy Lark. Ahead, astern, does it matter? Have you seen the sea? It's enormous.
    TBF the incident happened in harbour - seemingly when they cast off and tried to get out, but just reversed into the next vessel along. Like mistaken reverse in a car park.
    Reminded me of this incident:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trinidad_(46)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    I have been talking to my neighbour who works in a special school. Apparently since lockdown the number of referrals to the special school has grown exponentially. There is stuff that is hard to contemplate, like a significant proportion of children arriving in to school at age 4 without being potty trained which is supposedly attributed to Covid. What I suspect is most harmful is that kids have missed out on the process of socialisation, going around to each others houses etc. It was a lonely time. I personally couldn't shake off the view that it was all a psycho-drama and revealing of impulses towards totalitarianism but as an introvert with decent living accommodation and a family around me I don't think it bothered me all that much.
    What is the connection between Covid and potty training?
    Unfortunately, the connection is significant.. Such is the social and mental retardation of the Covid cohort of toddlers and infants, four year olds are arriving at nursery schools and they are still not toilet trained

    I have, by the way, heard this from MULTIPLE sources, from reading the blogs of teachers to newspaper articles to hearing of friends’ kids and grandkids to a couple of mates who actually teach these kids and see this daily

    I do not doubt it. This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before
    "This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before "

    Ahem. From 2016:

    "Significantly more children are starting school without being toilet trained, according to a joint survey by teachers and a continence education charity.

    Of the 700 survey respondents, 70% said more children aged three to seven – the foundation stage and key stage 1 – were now starting school without being toilet trained than five years ago."

    https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/public-health/rise-in-children-starting-school-not-toilet-trained-28-09-2016/

    Or 2019:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6932241/Potty-training-expert-insists-not-acceptable-send-five-year-olds-school-nappies.html
    Just because it is an issue before does not mean is can’t be a much bigger issue now

    That’s like saying “Oh we had problems with Germany right through the 1930s, what was special about the 40s?” in the 1950s

    You may be right, But I have vivid personal first hand accounts, from people teaching Covid kids (and Covid teens) that there are massive new issues
    That article from 2016 says that it was a problem then, and that teachers were reporting it was getting worse. It also states two possible anecdotal reasons.

    It *may* have got worse during Covid, but you provide zero evidence, and it disproves what you wrote: "... and it has never been seen before."

    Perhaps, just perhaps, there are deeper societal reasons behind the problem than Covid?
    The leadership team at the school where I was a governor felt that the arrival of social media and smart phones had done the most damage to early years socialisation and skills like toilet training were just one part of the impact (just a really disruptive one in terms of teaching time). Children miss the many thousands of social cues and non-verbal interactions that come when parents look and react to children directly instead of their phones. The examples I remember in terms of behaviour was extremely disruptive behaviour which prevented them being left with other children. From memory, the first real wave of social media-impacted kids was in the 2015 cohort but it might have a been a year later (which would coincide with that Nursing Times article).
    I agree with this. I am sure phones have been pernicious for kids, in myriad ways

    What was especially toxic for toddlers and babies and infants in Covid was possibly the COMBINATION of phones and lockdown. Kids would see their parents locked on phones. Normally this deleterious exposure to asociality would have been diluted, however, the kids then going to school and larking and mucking about with loads of kids with no phones - and a few teachers with no phones

    But during Covid that crucial no-phone part of the day was taken away. So we had two years with kids locked in their homes with their maddened parents either working from home or doomscrolling their phones, or both

    I speak btw as a guilty parent who spent far too long on his phone when out with his kids as long ago as 2010. My bad
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Very unconvinced that:
    The Mirror does about as well online as the Mail. (Both awful, but DM slightly less awful)

    The Independent does better than the Guardian. (Can't be true)

    That despite being behind a paywall the DTel does 66% as well as the free and ubiquitous Guardian.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    The point is, under a more sensible regime, frit and eerie Nat weirdos like you would have been allowed to lockdown, if you so wanted. Meanwhile those who like living and fun and stuff - and were confident of surviving the Wuhan Flu - could have carried on

    More importantly, kids would have largely carried on going to school, learning language, not becoming Special Needs

    The government should have given us the choice. It should have kept society open, in the main, but allowed the vulnerable and the scared and the SNP to hide away
    The negative impact on kids schooling appears - fortunately - to have been incredibly short lived.

    At the end of 2021, Arizonan kids (particularly the young ones) were well ahead of New York and Californian ones. But by the middle of 2023, the gap had essentially been eliminated.

    Now there may be longer lived impacts on soclialization (and possibly autism rates too), but it looks like concerns that kids educational levels are going to be impacted are unwarranted.
    That’s America, where lockdowns were much less punitive

    It looks a lot worse in the UK - from what I can see

    I mean, I hope you’re right, please God. But I worry you are not
    This is a comparison between a state which did not have lockdowns at all (after the initial brief one in April/May 2020) and states which had severe lockdowns. My kids - in California - did not return to in person schooling for over a year, and even then it was only half time until the start of the 21/22 academic year.

    For what it's worth, these results shouldn't be a surprise. German schools don't even start teaching reading until kids are 7, and yet their kids end up at the same place as British ones by the time you get to the teens,
    That's a more severe lockdown than Britain, surely? We were back to in-person teaching from July 2020 (on and off).

    Agree with your second point all the way.
    It was a much more severe lockdown as far as in person education went. But there were essentially no restrictions on meeting other people outside or in private residences.
    So, in terms of the UK, your evidence is valueless and irrelevant. Got that settled then
    I'm struggling to understand your point, if that is, you have one.

    Severe school lockdowns - in the US - don't seem to have had an impact on educational achievement. It is possible that the UK will have a different experience. But unlikely.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    kyf_100 said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Matthew Parris writes about it in The Spectator this week. No one involved admits they did anything wrong, but they won’t say they’d do the same again.

    I blame lockdown for my moving from outer London to the countryside. During the pandemic I was indoors with the family all the time, it was quite nice, we had a newborn baby and it felt like it didn’t matter where we lived. Now everything is open, I miss my local area and easy access to friends and family. I was considering moving even further out, to smaller villages. I think it sent me a bit crackers
    I hated every moment of it. I was locked up in a one bedroom flat, completely isolated from my support network, and chronically overworked by my employer, with fear-of-getting-fired never far from my mind.

    Eventually I had a nervous breakdown, from which I'm still recovering, and as a result of which I still deal with mental health, depression and anger issues every day, and find full-time work hard, if not impossible. I went from a healthy BMI to seriously overweight, occasional social drinker to problem drinker (which I've only just been mentally well-balanced enough to start working on in the last few months or so).

    So yeah. F**k lockdowns, and everyone who still supports them. I appreciate for everyone YMMV on this point, and can already hear some of you raising spectres of hundreds of thousands dead, piling up in NHS morgues, etc. But I can only speak from my own experience, and that has been permanent, debilitating mental illness, directly brought on by isolation and overwork.

    I was healthy before lockdowns. I am unhealthy now - mind and body. I have never, to the best of my knowledge, caught covid, nor would I have been in any kind of risk category even if I had.
    I'm really sorry to hear it - and glad to hear you're making steps to recovery.

    I had a similar housing/work/network situation but didn't especially mind it at the time (outside of the first few weeks when I didn't leave the house at all due to the building being a free-for-all for a bunch of very cough-laden kids). It wasn't until 'it was over' that I realised how much it had effected me.

    Going from day-on-day stern warnings of 'if you touch a shared door-handle - scrub your hands or you're dead' messaging, to just a quick "lol - it's all ok now. kthxbye" hasn't really quite cleared out the 'programming' of the previous year or two.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    rcs1000 said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    The UK also veered between Eat Out To Help Out and Don't Even Sit Next To Someone On A Park Bench.
    The extreme case being the on/off Christmas of 2020 and the one day of school in January 2021. The maddening thing being that the vaccines were already being administered by then. The grimness of early 2021 probably wasn't completely unavoidable, but it could have been a lot gentler and shorter than it was.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    I have been talking to my neighbour who works in a special school. Apparently since lockdown the number of referrals to the special school has grown exponentially. There is stuff that is hard to contemplate, like a significant proportion of children arriving in to school at age 4 without being potty trained which is supposedly attributed to Covid. What I suspect is most harmful is that kids have missed out on the process of socialisation, going around to each others houses etc. It was a lonely time. I personally couldn't shake off the view that it was all a psycho-drama and revealing of impulses towards totalitarianism but as an introvert with decent living accommodation and a family around me I don't think it bothered me all that much.
    What is the connection between Covid and potty training?
    Unfortunately, the connection is significant.. Such is the social and mental retardation of the Covid cohort of toddlers and infants, four year olds are arriving at nursery schools and they are still not toilet trained

    I have, by the way, heard this from MULTIPLE sources, from reading the blogs of teachers to newspaper articles to hearing of friends’ kids and grandkids to a couple of mates who actually teach these kids and see this daily

    I do not doubt it. This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before
    "This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before "

    Ahem. From 2016:

    "Significantly more children are starting school without being toilet trained, according to a joint survey by teachers and a continence education charity.

    Of the 700 survey respondents, 70% said more children aged three to seven – the foundation stage and key stage 1 – were now starting school without being toilet trained than five years ago."

    https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/public-health/rise-in-children-starting-school-not-toilet-trained-28-09-2016/

    Or 2019:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6932241/Potty-training-expert-insists-not-acceptable-send-five-year-olds-school-nappies.html
    Just because it is an issue before does not mean is can’t be a much bigger issue now

    That’s like saying “Oh we had problems with Germany right through the 1930s, what was special about the 40s?” in the 1950s

    You may be right, But I have vivid personal first hand accounts, from people teaching Covid kids (and Covid teens) that there are massive new issues
    That article from 2016 says that it was a problem then, and that teachers were reporting it was getting worse. It also states two possible anecdotal reasons.

    It *may* have got worse during Covid, but you provide zero evidence, and it disproves what you wrote: "... and it has never been seen before."

    Perhaps, just perhaps, there are deeper societal reasons behind the problem than Covid?
    The leadership team at the school where I was a governor felt that the arrival of social media and smart phones had done the most damage to early years socialisation and skills like toilet training were just one part of the impact (just a really disruptive one in terms of teaching time). Children miss the many thousands of social cues and non-verbal interactions that come when parents look and react to children directly instead of their phones. The examples I remember in terms of behaviour was extremely disruptive behaviour which prevented them being left with other children. From memory, the first real wave of social media-impacted kids was in the 2015 cohort but it might have a been a year later (which would coincide with that Nursing Times article).
    Facebook introducing AI chatbot characters aimed at kids across their apps will help this no end.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    The point is, under a more sensible regime, frit and eerie Nat weirdos like you would have been allowed to lockdown, if you so wanted. Meanwhile those who like living and fun and stuff - and were confident of surviving the Wuhan Flu - could have carried on

    More importantly, kids would have largely carried on going to school, learning language, not becoming Special Needs

    The government should have given us the choice. It should have kept society open, in the main, but allowed the vulnerable and the scared and the SNP to hide away
    The negative impact on kids schooling appears - fortunately - to have been incredibly short lived.

    At the end of 2021, Arizonan kids (particularly the young ones) were well ahead of New York and Californian ones. But by the middle of 2023, the gap had essentially been eliminated.

    Now there may be longer lived impacts on soclialization (and possibly autism rates too), but it looks like concerns that kids educational levels are going to be impacted are unwarranted.
    That’s America, where lockdowns were much less punitive

    It looks a lot worse in the UK - from what I can see

    I mean, I hope you’re right, please God. But I worry you are not
    This is a comparison between a state which did not have lockdowns at all (after the initial brief one in April/May 2020) and states which had severe lockdowns. My kids - in California - did not return to in person schooling for over a year, and even then it was only half time until the start of the 21/22 academic year.

    For what it's worth, these results shouldn't be a surprise. German schools don't even start teaching reading until kids are 7, and yet their kids end up at the same place as British ones by the time you get to the teens,
    That's a more severe lockdown than Britain, surely? We were back to in-person teaching from July 2020 (on and off).

    Agree with your second point all the way.
    It was a much more severe lockdown as far as in person education went. But there were essentially no restrictions on meeting other people outside or in private residences.
    So, in terms of the UK, your evidence is valueless and irrelevant. Got that settled then
    I'm struggling to understand your point, if that is, you have one.

    Severe school lockdowns - in the US - don't seem to have had an impact on educational achievement. It is possible that the UK will have a different experience. But unlikely.
    In Britain kids were forbidden from any social interaction. We literally closed playgrounds. Chained them up. I saw them, It was insane

    Nor were you allowed to go and visit other families, to have play dates, for kids to naturally interact outside school

    AFAIK nowhere in America was that draconian? Certainly not California?

    So that is a very different lockdown experience therefore you cannot draw meaningful parallel lessons on the psychosocial impact of lockdowns between these variant places
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    Big Bad Dom not holding back. He is of course quite right


    “New blog: With this week's leaks it's clear *a bunch of people in US and UK shd be JAILED for a long time* & there shd be a parliamentary inquiry into why the PM and me were told by senior Gvt science advisers *& the intel services* that the lab leak hypothesis was '100%' false & 'a conspiracy theory' in April 2020 (while the former head of SiS was saying the exact opposite via Signal) - instead of the continued Whitehall coverup evident in, for example, the Cabinet Office redaction of my Inquiry evidence & stopping the Inquiry judge seeing it.

    Won't happen, everyone in SW1 will carry on ignoring/lying/covering up, but this is for those outside SW1 who care about the truth on this...
    dominiccummings.substack.com/p/snippets-12-…

    https://x.com/dominic2306/status/1748378548182700202?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    The point is, under a more sensible regime, frit and eerie Nat weirdos like you would have been allowed to lockdown, if you so wanted. Meanwhile those who like living and fun and stuff - and were confident of surviving the Wuhan Flu - could have carried on

    More importantly, kids would have largely carried on going to school, learning language, not becoming Special Needs

    The government should have given us the choice. It should have kept society open, in the main, but allowed the vulnerable and the scared and the SNP to hide away
    The negative impact on kids schooling appears - fortunately - to have been incredibly short lived.

    At the end of 2021, Arizonan kids (particularly the young ones) were well ahead of New York and Californian ones. But by the middle of 2023, the gap had essentially been eliminated.

    Now there may be longer lived impacts on soclialization (and possibly autism rates too), but it looks like concerns that kids educational levels are going to be impacted are unwarranted.
    That’s America, where lockdowns were much less punitive

    It looks a lot worse in the UK - from what I can see

    I mean, I hope you’re right, please God. But I worry you are not
    This is a comparison between a state which did not have lockdowns at all (after the initial brief one in April/May 2020) and states which had severe lockdowns. My kids - in California - did not return to in person schooling for over a year, and even then it was only half time until the start of the 21/22 academic year.

    For what it's worth, these results shouldn't be a surprise. German schools don't even start teaching reading until kids are 7, and yet their kids end up at the same place as British ones by the time you get to the teens,
    That's a more severe lockdown than Britain, surely? We were back to in-person teaching from July 2020 (on and off).

    Agree with your second point all the way.
    It was a much more severe lockdown as far as in person education went. But there were essentially no restrictions on meeting other people outside or in private residences.
    So, in terms of the UK, your evidence is valueless and irrelevant. Got that settled then
    I'm struggling to understand your point, if that is, you have one.

    Severe school lockdowns - in the US - don't seem to have had an impact on educational achievement. It is possible that the UK will have a different experience. But unlikely.
    In Britain kids were forbidden from any social interaction. We literally closed playgrounds. Chained them up. I saw them, It was insane

    Nor were you allowed to go and visit other families, to have play dates, for kids to naturally interact outside school

    AFAIK nowhere in America was that draconian? Certainly not California?

    So that is a very different lockdown experience therefore you cannot draw meaningful parallel lessons on the psychosocial impact of lockdowns between these variant places
    The comment I replied to, yours, was this:

    "More importantly, kids would have largely carried on going to school, learning language, not becoming Special Needs "


  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
    By point-scoring, sniping across the benches and wholesale cuts to public health funding? Who needs an inquiry!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,628
    edited January 21
    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    I have been talking to my neighbour who works in a special school. Apparently since lockdown the number of referrals to the special school has grown exponentially. There is stuff that is hard to contemplate, like a significant proportion of children arriving in to school at age 4 without being potty trained which is supposedly attributed to Covid. What I suspect is most harmful is that kids have missed out on the process of socialisation, going around to each others houses etc. It was a lonely time. I personally couldn't shake off the view that it was all a psycho-drama and revealing of impulses towards totalitarianism but as an introvert with decent living accommodation and a family around me I don't think it bothered me all that much.
    What is the connection between Covid and potty training?
    Unfortunately, the connection is significant.. Such is the social and mental retardation of the Covid cohort of toddlers and infants, four year olds are arriving at nursery schools and they are still not toilet trained

    I have, by the way, heard this from MULTIPLE sources, from reading the blogs of teachers to newspaper articles to hearing of friends’ kids and grandkids to a couple of mates who actually teach these kids and see this daily

    I do not doubt it. This is a real problem, and it has not been seen before
    In my experience it is real and profound. Our child who was at 2 pretty nearly clean and dry before the covid restrictions had a severe developmental regression including this area. It had eventually resolved by the age of 5. I don't really understand it but it's a real thing. If I had the time again I would have broken the rules to give him the socialisation he needed but we obeyed the rules and more so due to the scaremongering.
    PB knows better and @TSE and the like will say you are simply lying
    I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now!
    So you are Doxing yourself as coming from Crete?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    edited January 21
    Leon said:

    Big Bad Dom not holding back. He is of course quite right


    “New blog: With this week's leaks it's clear *a bunch of people in US and UK shd be JAILED for a long time* & there shd be a parliamentary inquiry into why the PM and me were told by senior Gvt science advisers *& the intel services* that the lab leak hypothesis was '100%' false & 'a conspiracy theory' in April 2020 (while the former head of SiS was saying the exact opposite via Signal) - instead of the continued Whitehall coverup evident in, for example, the Cabinet Office redaction of my Inquiry evidence & stopping the Inquiry judge seeing it.

    Won't happen, everyone in SW1 will carry on ignoring/lying/covering up, but this is for those outside SW1 who care about the truth on this...
    dominiccummings.substack.com/p/snippets-12-…

    https://x.com/dominic2306/status/1748378548182700202?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    That would be a first.

    And if he's so brilliant, how come he didn't see through these people at the time?

    More likely he's just changed what passes for his mind after reading some random BS on Twitter (which is how he makes most of his ideas) but can't admit it so has come up with a conspiracy theory.
  • VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


    Cricket is better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    NIGHTYNIGHT

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370

    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


    Cricket is better.
    A bowled statement, but definitely on the right grounds.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Big Bad Dom not holding back. He is of course quite right


    “New blog: With this week's leaks it's clear *a bunch of people in US and UK shd be JAILED for a long time* & there shd be a parliamentary inquiry into why the PM and me were told by senior Gvt science advisers *& the intel services* that the lab leak hypothesis was '100%' false & 'a conspiracy theory' in April 2020 (while the former head of SiS was saying the exact opposite via Signal) - instead of the continued Whitehall coverup evident in, for example, the Cabinet Office redaction of my Inquiry evidence & stopping the Inquiry judge seeing it.

    Won't happen, everyone in SW1 will carry on ignoring/lying/covering up, but this is for those outside SW1 who care about the truth on this...
    dominiccummings.substack.com/p/snippets-12-…

    https://x.com/dominic2306/status/1748378548182700202?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    That would be a first.

    And if he's so brilliant, how come he didn't see through these people at the time?

    More likely he's just changed what passes for his mind after reading some random BS on Twitter (which is how he makes most of his ideas) but can't admit it so has come up with a conspiracy theory.
    Cummings raises about 95% of the right questions.

    0% of the right answers, mind you, but still…
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    ydoethur said:

    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


    Cricket is better.
    A bowled statement, but definitely on the right grounds.
    I'd say I hit it for four. Or six.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    ohnotnow said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
    By point-scoring, sniping across the benches and wholesale cuts to public health funding? Who needs an inquiry!
    Unless the inquiry discusses, at length and properly, Sweden, then I will continue to believe it is a waste of time.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    rcs1000 said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    The UK also veered between Eat Out To Help Out and Don't Even Sit Next To Someone On A Park Bench.
    The extreme case being the on/off Christmas of 2020 and the one day of school in January 2021. The maddening thing being that the vaccines were already being administered by then. The grimness of early 2021 probably wasn't completely unavoidable, but it could have been a lot gentler and shorter than it was.
    The one genuine success Boris had with Covid was getting the vaccines before the rest of Europe, but he ended up messing that up too by keeping us in lockdown until the rest of Europe came out of it too
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.

    This poll?


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    NEW Poll: Trump 46%, Haley 44% among likely Republican primary voters.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1749090653055656103
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    Nice. Wind in Solent, mainland cut off

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    edited January 21

    ydoethur said:

    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


    Cricket is better.
    A bowled statement, but definitely on the right grounds.
    I'd say I hit it for four. Or six.
    Speaking of which, some mixed news today.

    Obviously sorry for Harry Brook that he's gone home, and I wish his family a happy issue out of their afflictions, whatever they are.

    However, that presumably means Bairstow will now bat 5 which means we can have Foakes in as keeper.

    This doesn't mean we will win, but we hopefully won't see quite so many dropped catches.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I’m absolutely flabbergasted at the readership stats in the header. I would never have thought the Sun online would have anything like that circulation or be above the Mail in particular. I’m also shocked, and a little sceptical, at the Independent being above the Guardian in the list.

    If you’d asked me which titles were the most viewed online I would have the BBC at the top but much further ahead, then the Mail online, then a long way down the Guardian, then the others bringing up the rear.

    The Indy is pretty good online, tho i agree that looks a tad inflated

    I am not at all surprised by the Sun numbers, I recently did an Egypt group tour with the one of the main guys that basically runs the Sun online presence. He talked me through it, what they’ve done. They’ve weaponised YouTube, and other social media, really cleverly, they get massive clicks from the weirdest parts of the world

    The British journalist is a resourceful beast. They are not easy to wipe out
    ...although, 17% down in the year to Nov 23.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Interesting poll from Israel

    https://x.com/Martin_Kramer/status/1749122221446939042?s=20

    "New poll, Maariv: Were elections held today, the Opposition would take 71 Knesset seats (out of 120), the present coalition, 44. Of those, only 16 would go to Netanyahu’s Likud, half its present strength. https://m.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1069268"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,607

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.

    This poll?


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    NEW Poll: Trump 46%, Haley 44% among likely Republican primary voters.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1749090653055656103
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/21/politics/new-hampshire-primary-poll-trump-haley-desantis/index.html

    CNN Poll: Trump’s lead over Haley widens to double digits in New Hampshire
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.

    This poll?


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    NEW Poll: Trump 46%, Haley 44% among likely Republican primary voters.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1749090653055656103
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/21/politics/new-hampshire-primary-poll-trump-haley-desantis/index.html

    CNN Poll: Trump’s lead over Haley widens to double digits in New Hampshire
    Grim juxtaposition.

    One of the worries about Trump is it's not just him. The majority of the entire Republican party seem to have gone completely off the wall.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    I think you should apologise to creaky thought processes. You seem to be suggesting Trump is thinking?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,815

    ydoethur said:

    VAR corrupt as fuck, that foul was 20 times worse than the Curtis Jones one at Spurs.

    I mean, have seen players sent off for similar challenges. In fact one of them is playing in this game

    https://twitter.com/IanDoyleSport/status/1749116290663330044

    Not even a foul.


    Cricket is better.
    A bowled statement, but definitely on the right grounds.
    I'd say I hit it for four. Or six.
    Wide of the mark.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    edited January 21

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    I think you should apologise to creaky thought processes. You seem to be suggesting Trump is thinking?
    Mr Speaker, I withdraw.

    It's creaking like the Republican party's attachment to democracy.

    (The original of that was when, after Disraeli had shouted 'Half the cabinet are asses,' the Speaker asked him to withdraw. Disraeli: 'Mr Speaker, I withdraw. Half the Cabinet are not asses.')
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,246
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    I think you should apologise to creaky thought processes. You seem to be suggesting Trump is thinking?
    Mr Speaker, I withdraw.

    It's creaking like the Republican party's attachment to democracy.

    (The original of that was when, after Disraeli had shouted 'Half the cabinet are asses,' the Speaker asked him to withdraw. Disraeli: 'Mr Speaker, I withdraw. Half the Cabinet are not asses.')
    I think you should apologise to creaking attachments to democracy.

    The Republican Party has gone full Clodius - rip up The System, in worship of a staggeringly shitty leader.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    edited January 21
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.

    This poll?


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    NEW Poll: Trump 46%, Haley 44% among likely Republican primary voters.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1749090653055656103
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/21/politics/new-hampshire-primary-poll-trump-haley-desantis/index.html

    CNN Poll: Trump’s lead over Haley widens to double digits in New Hampshire
    Grim juxtaposition.

    One of the worries about Trump is it's not just him. The majority of the entire Republican party seem to have gone completely off the wall.
    They are least have a justification of being scared for their careers. To speak or act against The Donald is to die. It's a pathetic thing, but it's not nothing.

    What excuse do Johnson, Truss JRM et cetera have?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Looks like there might be one more ferry tonight after this one, then they are all cancelled. I fear for my roof if the storm is at the worse end of the forecast, although it looks like NI and the NW are most in the firing line?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703
    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    Hide the ketchup!!!

    Attorney Joe Tacopina, who represented Trump until last week, told MSNBC that it’s very likely that Trump will be convicted:

    “Absolutely. You have a jury of twelve who is ultimately going to decide this. Jack Smith is a federal prosecutor who I knew from his days in Brooklyn. They're serious prosecutors.”

    To the question of why he ditched the Trump legal team, Tacopina answered: “I had to follow my compass."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    BTW, bettors should note that a couple of polls have come out for NH that indicate Trump is widening his lead. This makes the current odds on DJT to be nominee look very attractive, given they will probably change on Tuesday.

    This poll?


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    NEW Poll: Trump 46%, Haley 44% among likely Republican primary voters.

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1749090653055656103
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/21/politics/new-hampshire-primary-poll-trump-haley-desantis/index.html

    CNN Poll: Trump’s lead over Haley widens to double digits in New Hampshire
    That's the one.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Totally OT, @Cookie's recommendation of Jarvis Cocker's book is spot on.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,703

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    "The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it"

    Who also lived, probably, in nice big N London houses with gardens or lovely suburbs of Cambridge or Norwich, again with gardens etc etc.

    Meanwhile in the tower blocks, the single mum is alone with two toddlers...

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I’m absolutely flabbergasted at the readership stats in the header. I would never have thought the Sun online would have anything like that circulation or be above the Mail in particular. I’m also shocked, and a little sceptical, at the Independent being above the Guardian in the list.

    If you’d asked me which titles were the most viewed online I would have the BBC at the top but much further ahead, then the Mail online, then a long way down the Guardian, then the others bringing up the rear.

    The Indy is pretty good online, tho i agree that looks a tad inflated

    I am not at all surprised by the Sun numbers, I recently did an Egypt group tour with the one of the main guys that basically runs the Sun online presence. He talked me through it, what they’ve done. They’ve weaponised YouTube, and other social media, really cleverly, they get massive clicks from the weirdest parts of the world

    The British journalist is a resourceful beast. They are not easy to wipe out
    ...although, 17% down in the year to Nov 23.
    You cannot hope to bribe or twist,
    Thank God! the British journalist.
    But, seeing what AI will do
    Unbribed, there's no occasion to.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,398

    FPT @isam - Pub Cricket - Ideal for keeping young people entertained during car journeys that do not involve motorways.....

    You score runs for each arm or leg contained in the pub name - so two runs for The Speckled Hen, four for the White Lion, eight for The Spider's Web, and so on. (No I've never seen a pub called The Centipede, but yes it would be a hundred runs.) Pub names without an arm or a leg are a wicket - so The Plough, The Castle etc are wickets.

    You can vary this a bit if you like, so that The Horse and Cart is four runs and a wicket but that's not how we used to do it.

    You should find you wind up with some fairly plausible scores - seventy or so runs will probably win the match.

    As well as curing boredom, it encourages observation. Attention to the pub signs is vital in some cases.


    There will of course be the occasional argument, but mostly it is good free fun.

    And if you ever go past The Deuragon (pub in Hackney, probably closed now) I can give you the answer as to whether it is runs or a wicket.

    Very late to this but the ultimate slam dunk in the south east is a pub called ‘The Men Of Kent’…
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244

    FPT @isam - Pub Cricket - Ideal for keeping young people entertained during car journeys that do not involve motorways.....

    You score runs for each arm or leg contained in the pub name - so two runs for The Speckled Hen, four for the White Lion, eight for The Spider's Web, and so on. (No I've never seen a pub called The Centipede, but yes it would be a hundred runs.) Pub names without an arm or a leg are a wicket - so The Plough, The Castle etc are wickets.

    You can vary this a bit if you like, so that The Horse and Cart is four runs and a wicket but that's not how we used to do it.

    You should find you wind up with some fairly plausible scores - seventy or so runs will probably win the match.

    As well as curing boredom, it encourages observation. Attention to the pub signs is vital in some cases.


    There will of course be the occasional argument, but mostly it is good free fun.

    And if you ever go past The Deuragon (pub in Hackney, probably closed now) I can give you the answer as to whether it is runs or a wicket.

    Very late to this but the ultimate slam dunk in the south east is a pub called ‘The Men Of Kent’…
    Unless they were already legless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
    The 'he' in question is Netanyahu.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Evening all :)

    In the pub cricket game, how many runs would a pub called "The Excavator" score? A bonus - it actually has an excavator parked outside.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    IanB2 said:

    Looks like there might be one more ferry tonight after this one, then they are all cancelled. I fear for my roof if the storm is at the worse end of the forecast, although it looks like NI and the NW are most in the firing line?

    It is a touch windy here.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    It was magnanimous of Margaret Thatcher to pose with the champagne and blue balloons, considering the circumstances.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    Sadly, this is only going to get worse.

    15-16 shitstorms in a row in Winter, with horrible rain and drizzle, and heatwaves in summer is the new normal.

    We desperately need a cheap good and scalable carbon-sucking technology.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408
    Although I wonder if retired people and those on furlough genuinely liked it.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,244

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    "The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it"

    Who also lived, probably, in nice big N London houses with gardens or lovely suburbs of Cambridge or Norwich, again with gardens etc etc.

    Meanwhile in the tower blocks, the single mum is alone with two toddlers...

    Lockdown was as divisive as a war. Some emerged with advantage, others did not. Baldwin's phrase about "hard-faced men who had done well out of the war" springs to mind, especially the knowingly ambiguous "out of". Certainly we should never do it again, but that applies to wars, too. Sometimes disasters are as predictable as they are unavoidable.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,398

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    Hands up, lockdown for me was not bad, thanks. Lucky enough to have a garden, woods on our doorstep, the ability to work from home and never been that social (neither my wife nor I). Add in the grimly fascinating events and yes, to some extent, I did enjoy the first lock down. The weather was awesome too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
    The 'he' in question is Netanyahu.
    Look at the comment you replied to.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Cyclefree said:

    IanB2 said:

    Looks like there might be one more ferry tonight after this one, then they are all cancelled. I fear for my roof if the storm is at the worse end of the forecast, although it looks like NI and the NW are most in the firing line?

    It is a touch windy here.
    Round here it's blowing harder than a lady Bill Clinton is paying by the orgasm.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
    The 'he' in question is Netanyahu.
    Look at the comment you replied to.
    I was just testing to see if anyone was awake, honest...*innocent face*

    More seriously, Vanilla did that annoying glitch where it put up two posts at once, and I clearly deleted the wrong one. I was trying to reply to this one:
    CatMan said:

    Interesting poll from Israel

    https://x.com/Martin_Kramer/status/1749122221446939042?s=20

    "New poll, Maariv: Were elections held today, the Opposition would take 71 Knesset seats (out of 120), the present coalition, 44. Of those, only 16 would go to Netanyahu’s Likud, half its present strength. https://m.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1069268"

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,240

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
    I had a fairly pleasant lockdown. I worked from home, and have a spare room so had the facilities to do it, and to walk away when it was finished. I mostly logged on between 8.30 and 5.00. I was better off, as most of my discretionary spending is on pubs and travel. I live on my own, which was a little isolating, but I soon learned which of my friends were up for an online pub session. I got more reading done. I was healthy, as I had the time to plan and prepare meals, and got out for walks and runs. Having said that, it was certainly one-dimensional and I was back out socialising as soon as we were able.

    My mental health has been quite poor since Autumn 2022 but I have no idea if it is Covid-related or a normal cyclical thing: thankfully it seems to be getting better, as while I have my usual winter blues I feel a lot better than I did last January.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,590

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    Hands up, lockdown for me was not bad, thanks. Lucky enough to have a garden, woods on our doorstep, the ability to work from home and never been that social (neither my wife nor I). Add in the grimly fascinating events and yes, to some extent, I did enjoy the first lock down. The weather was awesome too.
    Apart from the ghastly events around the world, my family of 3 had a lovely lockdown. We are all introverts and loved the home schooling, the ability to go out for quiet walks for exercise (when that became possible), and enjoyed the garden. The lack of traffic and the ability to hear the birds etc reminded me of my childhood in Derbyshire.

    And our work was already all remote, so we got a ton of stuff done.

    But I recognize that this was probably an anomaly.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,323
    edited January 21

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
    Fwiw, CR, I enjoyed lockdown, but then I live in a nice little cottage with a big garden. Walking the dogs was heaven - no cars! And the air was fresh and the sky crystal clear.

    I kind of felt guilty enjoying it so much, but it wasn't my fault so why not?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    Hide the ketchup!!!

    Attorney Joe Tacopina, who represented Trump until last week, told MSNBC that it’s very likely that Trump will be convicted:

    “Absolutely. You have a jury of twelve who is ultimately going to decide this. Jack Smith is a federal prosecutor who I knew from his days in Brooklyn. They're serious prosecutors.”

    To the question of why he ditched the Trump legal team, Tacopina answered: “I had to follow my compass."

    “I have a compass” would be enough.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    edited January 21
    From a purely personal point of view, the great thing about the first lockdown was that it got me away from an individual I had the agreeable choice between reporting to his superior or reporting to the police,* and who was trying to prevent me by threats of violence. These became somewhat less pressing when we were separated by 54 miles of lockdown. So I would say I enjoyed that feeling, definitely. I only had to see the bastard on zoom and I could randomly mute the inane nonsense he was spouting when I chose.

    The second lockdown was unfortunately more or less inevitable, at least in schools, because atrocious management meant they had pretty well ceased functioning.

    *In case anyone's wondering, I reported him to his superiors, who gave him a stern talking to but otherwise did nothing. Since learning last week that he has driven an individual to suicide in the last few months by his ongoing appalling behaviour, I have regretted this decision. I followed procedure, to the letter, but I don't feel my conscience is entirely clear.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    edited January 21

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    Hands up, lockdown for me was not bad, thanks. Lucky enough to have a garden, woods on our doorstep, the ability to work from home and never been that social (neither my wife nor I). Add in the grimly fascinating events and yes, to some extent, I did enjoy the first lock down. The weather was awesome too.
    Similar. We went from a house of 2 to a house of 5 as my daughter came home from Uni as an undergraduate and my son and his girlfriend who were both doing their PhDs came home also. Internet was a bit of a challenge. I have a large house and a large garden (2/3rd acre). So we were much busier and not house bound. Also being retired and healthy I travelled under 'Amber'. Went to Portugal for about 4 weeks and cycled in France for just over a week. Apart from the admin, travel was excellent. Empty planes and ferries.

    I also volunteered as a covid helper which was interesting.

    Felt really sorry for single people and those trapped in flats.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Just lost all power.
    Back on again, but a sign that the storm is hitting hard.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,408

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
    Fwiw, CR, I enjoyed lockdown, but then I live in a nice little cottage with a big garden. Walking the dogs was heaven - no cars! And the air was fresh and the sky crystal clear.

    I kind of felt guilty enjoying it so much, but it wasn't my fault so why not?
    Fair enough.

    I hated being constrained and developed severe boredom and depression.

    Some benefit in not having to travel to the office every day but it was hard, particularly when the nurseries shut and we had a 15-month old to look after whilst trying to work full-time.

    Never again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    There wasn't a lockdown. Unless you were shielding, if you were daft enough you could pop down to the shops every single day, and once you'd got home an had a cup of tea, then head out again for your daily exercise.

    And there wasn't the Stasi stopping you from breaking the rules and visiting folks as long as you didn’t shout it from the rooftops (or post about it on social media). We relied on community cohesion to do the right thing.

    We were shielding for 3 months - some may remember my posts describing my trips to the front gate to put the bin out. That's as far as I got.

    So to those who say that they were locked down while enjoying a daily stroll in the park or a bike ride through the countryside I say not really.

    Garbage. There certainly was a lockdown unless you consider shuffling around in masks in Tesco a form of social contact.

    You were one of the worst PBers in terms of moralising about others’ activities during Covid. Please don’t try to revise history,
    Yes, I thought that everyone should follow the rules. But no, people were not locked down.
    I must have imagined all those weeks and months where my son wasn’t allowed to go to school, I couldn’t visit the pub and I wasn’t able to meet my friends or family.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    I don’t agree with Nikki Haley on everything, but we agree on this much: She is not Nancy Pelosi.
    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1749131121114091648
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    For once @Leon’s post spoke to me.

    I have certainly learned that I am something of a hybrid-extrovert during the COVID period. I love to get my head down into something interesting but if I don’t go out and socialise and see people I get really down and depressed. I didn’t really understand that until I wasn’t able to. His post really spoke to me and articulated it in a way I’ve not been able to before.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,050
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
    Insufficient attention and money paid to other forms of infection control… well, it’s one factor. The advice was for more support for those who were infected, so they could self-isolate while infected, but the Government (presumably Sunak at the Treasury) didn’t want to provide that targeted support.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,570
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    Hands up, lockdown for me was not bad, thanks. Lucky enough to have a garden, woods on our doorstep, the ability to work from home and never been that social (neither my wife nor I). Add in the grimly fascinating events and yes, to some extent, I did enjoy the first lock down. The weather was awesome too.
    Apart from the ghastly events around the world, my family of 3 had a lovely lockdown. We are all introverts and loved the home schooling, the ability to go out for quiet walks for exercise (when that became possible), and enjoyed the garden. The lack of traffic and the ability to hear the birds etc reminded me of my childhood in Derbyshire.

    And our work was already all remote, so we got a ton of stuff done.

    But I recognize that this was probably an anomaly.
    I reckon experience of lockdown was analogous to evacuees during World War 2; for some it was a hideous experience; for many it was so-so (especially given the war situation), and some absolutely thrived.

    Personally, I wish lockdown hadn't happened. But we had resources to see us through the worst of it (I did drink much more than usual, though...), and a son who seemed to really enjoy home schooling.

    One thing I loved, and have kept: on that first day (my birthday, as it happens), we created an A4 sheet with coloured bars on it: gold at the top, silver, green, amber and red. We created two markers to place on it, one for my son, one for me. If I felt he was misbehaving, I'd go over and move his marker down towards red. If I thought he was doing well, I could move it up towards gold.

    The flipside was that the other marker was for me, and he could move my marker up and down as well...
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
    Fwiw, CR, I enjoyed lockdown, but then I live in a nice little cottage with a big garden. Walking the dogs was heaven - no cars! And the air was fresh and the sky crystal clear.

    I kind of felt guilty enjoying it so much, but it wasn't my fault so why not?
    Fair enough.

    I hated being constrained and developed severe boredom and depression.

    Some benefit in not having to travel to the office every day but it was hard, particularly when the nurseries shut and we had a 15-month old to look after whilst trying to work full-time.

    Never again.
    I’m one of the guilty enjoyers of lockdown-we had our first child at the peak of the first wave and, whilst the birth itself was incredibly weird because of that, the next five months were like stealing time away from the world to nest as a family (I’m a teacher so didn’t physically go back to work full time until September). It was only in having our second kid under more normal circumstances that I realised how wonderful those five months were.

    I feel incredibly fortunate with the timing of our parenthood-for our eldest I would say it was positively beneficial- I can only imagine what it would be like with children of almost any other age.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    I do think unlike many that the “back to the office” is not some grand conspiracy to save the economy, it is just that a lot of people really did get sick of working from home every day. In hindsight it was never realistic that people wouldn’t go to the office for at least some of the time.

    But I do think it’s shattered the concept of many people ever doing five days again. That really has changed - at least amongst my friendship group.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,953

    Leon said:

    I disagree with you. I think a lot of the mental health issues around today are due to trying to force introverts to behave like extroverts.

    I both agree and disagree.

    I worked from home pretty much every day for two years (forcibly during Covid and then a bit after) and it destroyed my mental health. I was never able to escape work, I used to work ridiculous hours. Even though I was - and am - a very sociable chap I just couldn't get my mind off work. This exhausted me and I spiralled into depression.

    I then started a new job where I was in every day except Fridays. This initially improved my mental health but over time I felt completely exhausted having to commute in every day, I was constantly ill and I was actually incredibly unproductive because I was constantly being disturbed/distracted by others. My mental health dived again.

    So I settled on going in a couple of times a week and then working at home the other three. This gave me a great balance because on the days I went in I got my meetings done in person and for a lot of these I strongly feel the in-person element is important. But on the other days I got my work done in a productive way, I got to do my workouts when I wanted to, I got to run when I wanted to and I organised my day around work instead of the other way around. The result is that my mental health has maintained its strength as the best it has ever been, for well over a year.

    I am now looking for something new but I intend to maintain this arrangement for any job I do, assuming I am able to.

    I know not everyone has the luxury that I have but I feel very fortunate that I am able to work in a way that works for me.
    Good for you. Seriously

    Covid fucked with everyone’s brains, I know some that loved lockdown, I was more like you - damaged by it. I’ve realised I’m a kind of loner wandering extrovert - I need plenty of time on my own, to think, but I also love socialising and I basically NEED new experiences- mainly travel, or sex, or whatever - to keep me sane and not suicidal from boredom, Covid prevented: socialising, travel, sex, everything

    No wonder I was close to topping myself

    The scale of the psychic damage we have wrought with lockdowns on the populations of the world, especially kids, is only now becoming apparent. The introvert geeks who crunch data might have loved it, most hated it

    I was literally just now having this exact conversation with a Cambodian restaurant manager. He spoke of Covid like it was a second reign of the Khmer Rouge - he and his business and his sanity barely survived. What the fuck did we do to ourselves?
    Who are these people who “loved” lockdown? That is insanity right there.

    @AverageNinja is right. Lockdown was destructive, on a grand scale.

    I’ve now had Covid thrice. Including a long and deeply boring bout this Christmas which ruined my holiday.

    Yet no bout of Covid is as bad as a bout of lockdown.
    For reasons that utterly baffle me polling showed, consistently, that lockdown was popular. This was at odds with almost everyone I spoke to.

    I can only assume they mean lockdown for other people, not them, and it was one of those classic inconsistent polling findings.
    Who were these people who approved of lockdown for other people but didn’t have to follow the rules themselves? Aside from Boris and his pals of course.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    The only thing that bothered me during the lockdowns was the fine weather for the first but all gardening centres closed. I was working face to face throughout, with no PPE for the first one, so a little unnerving.

    With my diabetes patients it was an interesting mix. Some went way off the rails, eating the wrong stuff etc, others really sorted themselves out, losing weight, getting more exercise etc, often sustaining it since. Not always the ones that I would have predicted either.

    A lot depends on personality and coping mechanisms, good and bad.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,050

    ohnotnow said:

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
    By point-scoring, sniping across the benches and wholesale cuts to public health funding? Who needs an inquiry!
    Unless the inquiry discusses, at length and properly, Sweden, then I will continue to believe it is a waste of time.
    The way the Inquiry has been structured, it’s very focused on what the UK and devolved governments did. It’s not carrying out an international comparison of public health responses and what worked best. It’s more concerned, so far as I can see, with the workings of government.

    International comparisons have been carried out, however, and Sweden isn’t generally held up as a success. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan are. They took SARS seriously and invested in public health.

    This is an early analysis (published Feb 2022): https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12992-022-00805-9

    This is a very broad analysis of factors: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-09783-9
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    Sadly, this is only going to get worse.

    15-16 shitstorms in a row in Winter, with horrible rain and drizzle, and heatwaves in summer is the new normal.

    We desperately need a cheap good and scalable carbon-sucking technology.
    Acorns.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,050
    edited January 21
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
    The 'he' in question is Netanyahu.
    Look at the comment you replied to.
    I was just testing to see if anyone was awake, honest...*innocent face*

    More seriously, Vanilla did that annoying glitch where it put up two posts at once, and I clearly deleted the wrong one. I was trying to reply to this one:
    CatMan said:

    Interesting poll from Israel

    https://x.com/Martin_Kramer/status/1749122221446939042?s=20

    "New poll, Maariv: Were elections held today, the Opposition would take 71 Knesset seats (out of 120), the present coalition, 44. Of those, only 16 would go to Netanyahu’s Likud, half its present strength. https://m.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1069268"

    Indeed. Many in the West may think Netanyahu is doing a good job prosecuting the war in Gaza, but Israelis don’t.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    I do think unlike many that the “back to the office” is not some grand conspiracy to save the economy, it is just that a lot of people really did get sick of working from home every day. In hindsight it was never realistic that people wouldn’t go to the office for at least some of the time.

    But I do think it’s shattered the concept of many people ever doing five days again. That really has changed - at least amongst my friendship group.

    It's complex - I think the pandemic challenged a lot of people's view of work. When life was more compartmentalised - you lived in one place, worked in another, socialised in both but in different ways with different circles.

    Bringing work home was a first and a challenge - that gap was gone and the line between your home life and your work life blurred. Some adapted it to well - others didn't. If it was difficult for individuals it was more so for organisations who found themselves with empty offices for which they were either paying rent or an office whose value was going down with the commercial property market.

    Hence an inevitability there would be a reaction as there is to most revolutionary or evolutionary events.

    The other aspect of the work-life debate was the recognition for some they preferred the latter to the former and for them stopping working equated to starting living.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    Sadly, this is only going to get worse.

    15-16 shitstorms in a row in Winter, with horrible rain and drizzle, and heatwaves in summer is the new normal.

    We desperately need a cheap good and scalable carbon-sucking technology.
    We need to accept that global warming is happening irrespective of what we do. Anything we do will be pissing in the wind compared to China, India, USA, Russia and Africa. What we can and should do is mitigate against the inevitable consequences. Flood barriers, not building on flood plains, protecting vital routes, such as the A83. If parliament was moved to Happisburgh, it might concentrate minds.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,570

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    Sadly, this is only going to get worse.

    15-16 shitstorms in a row in Winter, with horrible rain and drizzle, and heatwaves in summer is the new normal.

    We desperately need a cheap good and scalable carbon-sucking technology.
    Acorns.
    Well, we were good, but not quite that good. I could try to get some of the old team back together and go mad for a week... ;)

    http://yoz.com/wired/2.09/features/acorn.html

    (I wasn't a member of that team at that time, but worked with them later.)
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513
    edited January 21

    Although I wonder if retired people and those on furlough genuinely liked it.

    The 21% who thought nightclubs should never re-open did.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited January 21

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I see those who hated lockdown (a noisy group over represented on PB) are projecting this onto the population at large. Meanwhile..

    https://unherd.com/2023/03/why-doesnt-britain-regret-lockdown/

    I mean almost as many Brits think lockdown was right as want to rejoin the EU!

    I supported lockdown at the time and was one of the biggest advocates of it along with that CorrectHorseBattery fellow (whatever happened to it?). But in hindsight I think whilst I can buy the arguments for the first lockdown, with what the government did and the impact it had, I really am very sceptical it was the right thing to do.
    As usual I seem to be in the non-ideological group - the early lockdowns made sense, but after the vaccines arrived, the C/B ratio changed dramatically.

    There seem to be plenty of ideologues on both sides of lockdowns.

    I had family at home with me, enough space to live and work - and a job to match. *Before* the first lockdown, they said - “You can send your whole desk, computer, monitors, chair etc home. Free delivery.”

    For many, many people there was no space, loneliness and no work. Let alone free delivery of Aeron office chairs.

    I think that's possibly the case outside of lockdown too.

    Aside from snark - I also think the first lockdown was probably the right call in the circumstances. They had no idea what was happening, or how to find out, or what was going to happen. Outside of the 'holy sh*t' coming out of Italy, Spain etc. (The reasons for them having no idea and no ability to find out are another matter of course).

    If the Alpha wave had come on us six months later than it did it's possible things would have then played out very differently.
    Yes: you can only judge decisions in the context of the information available at the time.

    That makes the first lockdown understandable, if significantly over long. The others, not so much.
    Lockdown was grim, I was living on my own, going through a breakup of a long relationship and my old man was dying and in and out of hospital. At the time it was understandable because we didn’t really know what was happening or how bad Covid could be. What wasn’t cool were subsequent lockdowns - I remember a Christmas lockdown where I was banging my head on the table as to why they hadn’t locked down over November (where cases here were going through the roof) to suppress Covid and then enable opening up for December so people and businesses could enjoy Christmas.

    Hopefully, once the enquiry has got over the bitching and point scoring they can establish how in future they can better manage any required lockdowns.
    Insufficient attention and money paid to other forms of infection control… well, it’s one factor. The advice was for more support for those who were infected, so they could self-isolate while infected, but the Government (presumably Sunak at the Treasury) didn’t want to provide that targeted support.
    I think a major part of planning for future pandemics - should they be like Covid where certain sections of society are obviously more vulnerable - must be that there is extremely focussed support to allow those people to be isolated and supported whilst allowing the majority to carry on close to normal.

    The chances are however that the next epidemic will be nothing like Covid and so we will be fighting the last war. I would love to see published plans for different sorts of major diseases. As a kid I remember the phone book had a couple of pages relating to nuclear war or accidents - it would be good to have a really simple set of guidlines available to all which can be pointed to to buy time and preserve life. You get on a plane and have the safety demo and nobody really complains so make it normal that people have an idea what to do in case of certain incidents/diseases whilst they work out what it is, how bad it is and how to survive it.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    Being tossed about on what could be one of the last Solent ferries before you're all cut off. It's getting windy out there.

    I'm getting a bit nervous about my conservatory roof. It's creaking like Trump's thought processes.
    Completely banjaxed, then ?

    On Jan 17 Trump told a New Hampshire audience: “We’re…going to place strong protections to stop banks and regulators from trying to debank you from your—you know, your political beliefs, what they do. They want to debank you, and we’re going to debank—think of this. They want to take away your rights. They want to take away your country. The things they’re doing. All electric cars.”
    https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1749051641280483544

    That's the first good news I've seen from the Israeli/Palestine conflict in literally years.

    I still think the Opposition were mad not to insist on his resignation before forming a coalition.
    Eh?
    The 'he' in question is Netanyahu.
    Look at the comment you replied to.
    I was just testing to see if anyone was awake, honest...*innocent face*

    More seriously, Vanilla did that annoying glitch where it put up two posts at once, and I clearly deleted the wrong one. I was trying to reply to this one:
    CatMan said:

    Interesting poll from Israel

    https://x.com/Martin_Kramer/status/1749122221446939042?s=20

    "New poll, Maariv: Were elections held today, the Opposition would take 71 Knesset seats (out of 120), the present coalition, 44. Of those, only 16 would go to Netanyahu’s Likud, half its present strength. https://m.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1069268"

    Indeed. Many in the West may think Netanyahu is doing a good job prosecuting the war in Gaza, but Israelis don’t.
    The people that think Netanyahu is doing a good job correlates to the people that think the Tories are doing a good job. At least they are consistent.
This discussion has been closed.