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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    In his own ward . . . next to schools.

    image

    There's a world of difference between having 20mph at schools and 20mph everywhere.
    Oh yes, and how are the children supposed to get home without being run over? You admit schools need 20mph: that means 20mph everywhere in residential areas.
    No it bloody well does not.

    Kids go home plenty of ways. Via their parents picking them up, via buses, walking on footpaths etc

    Outside schools however you get hundreds of pupils stepping out at the same time, whether they're walking home or walking to their parents car or bus stop or wherever, which inevitably results in pupils walking on the road rather than the footpath.

    Within hundreds of metres from the school, the crowds have dispersed and people can and do walk on the footpath.
    So you demand that children never go anywhere else, lest they dirty the tyres? I see.
    No, they can go wherever they want.

    But only outside schools do you get crowds of hundreds of children spilling out into the streets as they don't all fit on the footpath.

    I see it every single day at my kids school. The secondary school next door breaks up before my daughter's primary school does and majority of the pupils seem to make their own way home. They spill out onto the street outside the school (which has been, rightly, designated 20mph) and disperse in a multitude of directions. The crowd only exists outside the school though.

    When I am away about 0.25 mile drive to or from my daughter's school to pick/drop off the girls - and away again, I can see plenty of secondary school students out and about, on the pavement, waiting at bus stops etc - but none on the road. However directly outside the school, there's crowds of kids and many walking on the road itself, which quite rightly is lowered speed limit as a result.

    It makes perfect sense to drop the speed limit at the school itself, where there's crowds of kids spilling onto the road - it makes no sense to do so elsewhere, where its not the case. Individual or small groups of kids can easily fit on the pavement.

    By the time the 20 turns back into 30 away from the school, there's absolutely no issue of crowds of kids making things dangerous for either them or anyone else. Its only at the school itself there's a greater risk.
    You might have cause and effect the wrong way round, and it is 20mph limits that encourage, or at least allow, teenagers to spill into the roads, confident that traffic can stop in time.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102

    They publicly insult God and King on PB FOR the badge of honour!
    That always makes me think of this...

    image

    I found a video a little while back of the RSS marching around in black shorts. Damn me if I haven't lost it though.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-primary-elections/iowa-president-results

    Zero numbers yet, but nicely set up with map, statewide and county-by-county results when they start coming in after 7pm Iowa time (1am UK)

    Note also zero paywall.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    Would this "Services support" be the one that is proposing an across the board 5% cut in spending?
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760

    They publicly insult God and King on PB FOR the badge of honour!
    That always makes me think of this...

    image

    I found a video a little while back of the RSS marching around in black shorts. Damn me if I haven't lost it though.
    That looks a bit like my brother…

    Why is that poster talking to me? There’s nothing on it I disagree with 😟
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,822
    SandraMc said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
    And giving Thomas Hardy a permanent dose of the miseryguts.
    Now come on. That was the first Mrs Hardy's fault.
    Nonsense. Hardy was deplorable to his first wife. He became devoted to her only after she died.
    I look and see it there, shrinking, shrinking,
    I look back at it amid the rain
    For the very last time; for my sand is sinking,
    And I shall traverse old love’s domain
    Never again.
  • Options

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    In his own ward . . . next to schools.

    image

    There's a world of difference between having 20mph at schools and 20mph everywhere.
    Oh yes, and how are the children supposed to get home without being run over? You admit schools need 20mph: that means 20mph everywhere in residential areas.
    No it bloody well does not.

    Kids go home plenty of ways. Via their parents picking them up, via buses, walking on footpaths etc

    Outside schools however you get hundreds of pupils stepping out at the same time, whether they're walking home or walking to their parents car or bus stop or wherever, which inevitably results in pupils walking on the road rather than the footpath.

    Within hundreds of metres from the school, the crowds have dispersed and people can and do walk on the footpath.
    So you demand that children never go anywhere else, lest they dirty the tyres? I see.
    No, they can go wherever they want.

    But only outside schools do you get crowds of hundreds of children spilling out into the streets as they don't all fit on the footpath.

    I see it every single day at my kids school. The secondary school next door breaks up before my daughter's primary school does and majority of the pupils seem to make their own way home. They spill out onto the street outside the school (which has been, rightly, designated 20mph) and disperse in a multitude of directions. The crowd only exists outside the school though.

    When I am away about 0.25 mile drive to or from my daughter's school to pick/drop off the girls - and away again, I can see plenty of secondary school students out and about, on the pavement, waiting at bus stops etc - but none on the road. However directly outside the school, there's crowds of kids and many walking on the road itself, which quite rightly is lowered speed limit as a result.

    It makes perfect sense to drop the speed limit at the school itself, where there's crowds of kids spilling onto the road - it makes no sense to do so elsewhere, where its not the case. Individual or small groups of kids can easily fit on the pavement.

    By the time the 20 turns back into 30 away from the school, there's absolutely no issue of crowds of kids making things dangerous for either them or anyone else. Its only at the school itself there's a greater risk.
    You might have cause and effect the wrong way round, and it is 20mph limits that encourage, or at least allow, teenagers to spill into the roads, confident that traffic can stop in time.
    No I don't, because the speed limit was changed only recently and the crowds of children spilling onto the roads existed outside the school when the school broke up while the speed limit was still 30mph.

    Teenagers don't have that logical a prefrontal cortex that they think "the speed limit is 20mph lets walk on the road here".
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    There are some reports that this attack on the US consulate in Erbil included missiles that came directly from Iran.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1747000867192963429

    Oooh. This could be it. World War 3!

    I should be nice and snug and safe in Phnom Penh. No one gives a fuck about Cambodia anymore

    Sorry about you guys in Europe, America, China etc

    Them’s the breaks
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,382
    maxh said:

    Apropos of not much…what examples can PBers give of that policies/ideas that they agree with coming from individuals or groups that you fundamentally disagree with politically?

    For me:
    - Trump on NATO spending. He had a very good point.
    - Brexiters on the cultural dislocation caused by rapid immigration to a particular area, and the fact that this falls disproportionately on poorer people.
    - Right-wingers on the need for strong independent defence (this is a relatively new one for me, prompted by Ukraine)

    I agree with the LibDems on PR (though I prefer the Danish open list system) and with Rishi Sunak in cancelling HS2 (which I opposed from the start). I was enthusiastic about many of Boris's animal welfare policies, though they have now mostly been dropped by the current management.
  • Options

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
    And also there's nothing wrong with disliking, rather than hating, Islam either so long as you don't discriminate against Muslims.

    I dislike all organised religions. That's a personally reasonable view to take.
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
    That isn't what I was referring to.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Which is a good idea - if they wish to go faster than the rules for assisted push bikes, I trust they will do so on properly setup machines, with efficient brakes, proper taxation and safety equipment. Not to mention training.

    If you want to ride a moped, then do so. The rules, laws, equipment and training relating to them comes from lessons in blood.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,549
    edited January 15

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Who cares what English Tories are doing when this is an issue for those living in Wales and is being addressed over the coming months by all the parties concerned

    We already had 20mph zones around schools and in residential areas and that is not where the debate in Wales is

    I doubt anyone I know has even heard of this English Facebook page, they have their own Welsh pages
  • Options

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    Would this "Services support" be the one that is proposing an across the board 5% cut in spending?
    Not really.

    On the contrary, I'd expect such a group to argue for tax increases especially for the wealthy (via property perhaps) and even more especially for foreign residents and businesses in the UK - whether or not that would be economically practical or desirable, it would be popular.

    The theory would be the monies raised in this way would provide support for the lower paid and poorer in society as well as increased funding for education, health and care for the elderly - again, sounds popular.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,786
    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.

    This lot couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    It's quite possible to be a socialist and a patriot (or even a nationalist). It doesn't make you a National Socialist by any stretch. Conservatives spent decades smearing Labour by claiming their true allegiance was to Moscow - on the contrary, many of the most patriotic people I ever encountered were Labour supporters.
  • Options
    maxhmaxh Posts: 885

    maxh said:

    Apropos of not much…what examples can PBers give of that policies/ideas that they agree with coming from individuals or groups that you fundamentally disagree with politically?

    For me:
    - Trump on NATO spending. He had a very good point.
    - Brexiters on the cultural dislocation caused by rapid immigration to a particular area, and the fact that this falls disproportionately on poorer people.
    - Right-wingers on the need for strong independent defence (this is a relatively new one for me, prompted by Ukraine)

    Right-wingers on defence? Have you not followed my series on four decades of Tory defence cuts?

    But to answer your question:-

    Liz Truss on the need for growth. (Coincidentally I'm reading Cole & Heale's book about her.)
    Donald Trump on not starting new Middle East wars (heaven knows they've got enough already) and the threat from China.
    Very fair point, I was meaning rhetoric not implementation necessarily!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Which is a good idea - if they wish to go faster than the rules for assisted push bikes, I trust they will do so on properly setup machines, with efficient brakes, proper taxation and safety equipment. Not to mention training.

    If you want to ride a moped, then do so. The rules, laws, equipment and training relating to them comes from lessons in blood.
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4435098#Comment_4435098

    (Remember - Drakeford supported these bikers against a police vehicle that may, or may not, have been following them. He no more cares about road safety than the designer of the Edsel did.)
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Which is a good idea - if they wish to go faster than the rules for assisted push bikes, I trust they will do so on properly setup machines, with efficient brakes, proper taxation and safety equipment. Not to mention training.

    If you want to ride a moped, then do so. The rules, laws, equipment and training relating to them comes from lessons in blood.
    It is not commonly known but most emergency workers cannot use 'blue lights' from home to their station and certainly my son cannot to get to the RNLI boathouse even though once he is there he is part of the emergency service
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
    And also there's nothing wrong with disliking, rather than hating, Islam either so long as you don't discriminate against Muslims.

    I dislike all organised religions. That's a personally reasonable view to take.
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with hating
    religions. And I speak as a mildly religious person

    All the “great” religions have been responsible for many millions of deaths - including Buddhism

    Christianity and Islam in particular have almost been in competition in terms of atrocious killing, done in their name (and often internecine: Shia/Sunni, Protestant/Catholic)

    Right now Islam is definitely the greater threat to personal safety and world peace, but history tells us that could easily change

    What IS wrong is hating the individual believer, just for their faith, without any evidence of their personal culpability
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    edited January 15

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Who cares what English Tories are doing when this is an issue for those living in Wales and is being addressed over the coming months by all the parties concerned

    We already had 20mph zones around schools and in residential areas and that is not where the debate in Wales is

    I doubt anyone I know has even heard of this English Facebook page, they have their own Welsh pages
    Read the article.

    English Tories, while introducing or expanding 20mph limits in their own areas, are running those WELSH Facebook groups. You are likely one of the victims of this interference.

    Not since Edward I ....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
    I thought that a touch obvious, plus that is a really natty uniform.

    I was in Rijeka recently, It was interesting how thoroughly they have extirpated the past. I tried to find any evidence of the Whitehead factory. Nothing.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    Kari Lake’s get out the vote message for Trump, accompanied by his mugshot:

    https://x.com/karilake/status/1746978602317693029

    Dear Iowa,

    When you go to Caucus later today, REMEMBER this photo.

    Remember everything this man endures for US.

    Remember everything he’s done to Save America before & just IMAGINE all he will do to Save Her again.

    Remember this…
    & CAUCUS FOR TRUMP! 🇺🇸

    MAGA!
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,814
    Andy_JS said:

    ohnotnow said:

    O/T - but for the PB fans of 'Scandi-noir' I can recommend "Floodland" for those who haven't seen it. It's on "Walter Presents".

    https://crimefictionlover.com/2021/05/floodland-brings-flemish-crime-fiction-to-our-screens/

    "Floodland is a Belgium-Netherlands co-production set in modern day Flanders-Zeeland, the borderland region between the two countries either side of the Scheldt river. It’s a blackly comic police drama that draws heavily on the clash of cultures between city, cosmopolitan liberal values and an out-of-touch rural community".

    I'm not sure I see a lot of 'comic' in it - but it's well written, acted and photographed.

    Sounds interesting, I might try watching.
    I’m going to see how Fargo 5 develops, then I might be tempted.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    edited January 15
    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    Would this "Services support" be the one that is proposing an across the board 5% cut in spending?
    Not really.

    On the contrary, I'd expect such a group to argue for tax increases especially for the wealthy (via property perhaps) and even more especially for foreign residents and businesses in the UK - whether or not that would be economically practical or desirable, it would be popular.

    The theory would be the monies raised in this way would provide support for the lower paid and poorer in society as well as increased funding for education, health and care for the elderly - again, sounds popular.
    Well.
    That group sure as heck isn't Farage and Reform then.
    There's precious little evidence of anyone pushing that since the BNP withered away.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,913
    edited January 15
    Leon said:

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
    And also there's nothing wrong with disliking, rather than hating, Islam either so long as you don't discriminate against Muslims.

    I dislike all organised religions. That's a personally reasonable view to take.
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with hating
    religions. And I speak as a mildly religious person

    All the “great” religions have been responsible for many millions of deaths - including Buddhism

    Christianity and Islam in particular have almost been in competition in terms of atrocious killing, done in their name (and often internecine: Shia/Sunni, Protestant/Catholic)

    Right now Islam is definitely the greater threat to personal safety and world peace, but history tells us that could easily change

    What IS wrong is hating the individual believer, just for their faith, without any evidence of their personal culpability
    That's fair.

    Though I'd personally say I dislike Islam and Christianity rather than hate them.

    Hate is a strong word.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
    That’s d’Annunzio. An Italian proto-Fascist
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,549
    edited January 15
    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Who cares what English Tories are doing when this is an issue for those living in Wales and is being addressed over the coming months by all the parties concerned

    We already had 20mph zones around schools and in residential areas and that is not where the debate in Wales is

    I doubt anyone I know has even heard of this English Facebook page, they have their own Welsh pages
    Read the article.

    English Tories, while introducing or expanding 20mph limits in their own areas, are running those WELSH Facebook groups. You are likely one of the victims of this interference.

    Not since Edward I ....
    Utter nonsense

    I know everyone on our Facebook page

    The Welsh Government itself accepts the policy needs reviewing as do most public bodies and, though you may not like it, it will be reviewed and changes made
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    Kari Lake’s get out the vote message for Trump, accompanied by his mugshot:

    https://x.com/karilake/status/1746978602317693029

    Dear Iowa,

    When you go to Caucus later today, REMEMBER this photo.

    Remember everything this man endures for US.

    Remember everything he’s done to Save America before & just IMAGINE all he will do to Save Her again.

    Remember this…
    & CAUCUS FOR TRUMP! 🇺🇸

    MAGA!

    There's just one error.

    They should do all that and then vote for Biden if Trump is the nominee.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744
    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.

    James Cunningly.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Who cares what English Tories are doing when this is an issue for those living in Wales and is being addressed over the coming months by all the parties concerned

    We already had 20mph zones around schools and in residential areas and that is not where the debate in Wales is

    I doubt anyone I know has even heard of this English Facebook page, they have their own Welsh pages
    Read the article.

    English Tories, while introducing or expanding 20mph limits in their own areas, are running those WELSH Facebook groups. You are likely one of the victims of this interference.

    Not since Edward I ....
    Utter nonsense
    Read the article.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
    That’s d’Annunzio. An Italian proto-Fascist
    I wasn't responding just to the image ......

    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    Iran has apparently claimed responsibility.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1747009494897377769

    Iranian Sources are reporting the Attack tonight near the U.S. Consulate within the City of Erbil in Northern Iraq was carried out by 6 Fateh-110 Tactical Short-Range Ballistic Missiles launched by the IRGC.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,794

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    A fat bastard on an electric bike flashed past me the other day on a shared-use pedestrian path, presumably working off some January calories as slowly as time would permit. They are absolutely incompatible with pedestrians because they weigh a ton, they go like the clappers and it's hard to judge their speed of approach because at a distance they bear a feint resemblance to a pushbike. If he'd hit me (another 6 inches would have done it) I'd still be in hospital.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    Would this "Services support" be the one that is proposing an across the board 5% cut in spending?
    Not really.

    On the contrary, I'd expect such a group to argue for tax increases especially for the wealthy (via property perhaps) and even more especially for foreign residents and businesses in the UK - whether or not that would be economically practical or desirable, it would be popular.

    The theory would be the monies raised in this way would provide support for the lower paid and poorer in society as well as increased funding for education, health and care for the elderly - again, sounds popular.
    Well.
    That group sure as heck isn't Farage and Reform then.
    There's precious little evidence of anyone pushing that since the BNP withered away.
    No, and that's why the gap exists. Farage and Tice are ex-Tories but only about a third of Reform supporters would support the Conservatives if there were no Reform candidate.

    Reform needs a more nuanced leadership and policy platform instead of simply being anti-immigrant Thatcherites.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,382



    Do you separate the spiritual and violent sides?

    The boys down at Hizb ut-Tahrir don't

    I favour prosecuting any incitement to violence, whatever opinions prompted it. I don't favour making any opinion illegal - if people want to be fascists or whatever, I wouldn't dispute their right to it. Otherwise it's simply a slippery slope to "Anyone we strongly disagree with should be locked up".
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    E-bikes should require a licence plate and a riders licence.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
    That’s d’Annunzio. An Italian proto-Fascist
    I think that comment was a reference to the fact that party in question is in Germany.

    d’Annunzio pretty much invented Fascism. Hence his falling out of a window when he got inconvenient.

    Moeller van den Bruck was less of a problem for Hitler, since he was conveniently dying.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    Kari Lake’s get out the vote message for Trump, accompanied by his mugshot:

    https://x.com/karilake/status/1746978602317693029

    Dear Iowa,

    When you go to Caucus later today, REMEMBER this photo.

    Remember everything this man endures for US.

    Remember everything he’s done to Save America before & just IMAGINE all he will do to Save Her again.

    Remember this…
    & CAUCUS FOR TRUMP! 🇺🇸

    MAGA!

    Wow, that looks like an old blonde be-wigged mugshot of the Hood from Thunderbirds. Are they perchance related?
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    FYI the police in Edinburgh have never enforced 20mph, and none of the cameras are not calibrated for it.

    Despite that, speeds have fallen significantly. You just need someone like me, or a tourist, a taxi driver on 6 points, or a police car/ambulance/fire engine and the whole street is slowed down.
  • Options

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    Tony Blair ignored the ECHR for years. So have all European nations.

    The ECHR is as much use as a fart in the wind.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    Leon said:

    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    To make it clear, if it needs making clear: dislike and disapproval of Hizb ut-Tahrir is not hatred of Islam.
    And also there's nothing wrong with disliking, rather than hating, Islam either so long as you don't discriminate against Muslims.

    I dislike all organised religions. That's a personally reasonable view to take.
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with hating
    religions. And I speak as a mildly religious person

    All the “great” religions have been responsible for many millions of deaths - including Buddhism

    Christianity and Islam in particular have almost been in competition in terms of atrocious killing, done in their name (and often internecine: Shia/Sunni, Protestant/Catholic)

    Right now Islam is definitely the greater threat to personal safety and world peace, but history tells us that could easily change

    What IS wrong is hating the individual believer, just for their faith, without any evidence of their personal culpability
    That's fair.

    Though I'd personally say I dislike Islam and Christianity rather than hate them.

    Hate is a strong word.
    If you’ve been on the wrong end of Christian or Islamic violence - against each other, or Jews, or non believers, or various other minorities - you would likely and justifiably hate those religions

    Likewise people here in Cambodia hate communism/maoism and anything to do with it. And who can blame them for this hatred. Communism killed a quarter of the nation
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    France actually has ignored the ECHR to deport people and New Labour threatened to before.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    France actually has ignored the ECHR to deport people and New Labour threatened to before.
    Despicable on both counts.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    I think a cyclist or 2 has been done for "furious cycling" - as in going really, really fast.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,788
    edited January 15

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    100%. I am so used to driving at 20mph that 30mph seems ludicrously fast in a residential area. I was driving outside
    London the other day and got beeped for driving at 22mph!

    You could get used to and see the bright side in Margaret Beckett farting in your face every day if you had to - that wouldn't make it a sensible idea. Does it not occur to you, when looked at objectively, that when cars get dumped on for suffocating babies, slaughtering the few surviving children at 30mph, being the cause of global warming etc., that the issue isn't really any one of these things, it's that they just don't really like you having and using a car very much? Have you never in your life met a manipulative liar who constantly changes their story? Lucky you.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    One for @dixiedean

    You won’t improve attendance by incessantly pointing out the link between going to school and getting ‘better outcomes’. You might improve it by rethinking the education system so it meets the needs of young people today rather than persisting with a hopelessly outdated model.

    https://twitter.com/John_Kendall_/status/1744682207556325432
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    Worse, a German Socialism of a National kind.
    That’s d’Annunzio. An Italian proto-Fascist
    I think that comment was a reference to the fact that party in question is in Germany.

    d’Annunzio pretty much invented Fascism. Hence his falling out of a window when he got inconvenient.

    Moeller van den Bruck was less of a problem for Hitler, since he was conveniently dying.
    Interestingly d’Annunzio is wearing - in that image - a version of the uniform I was trying to identify yesterday. It was a mixture of that and the cockaded Bersaglieri outfit
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,822

    maxh said:

    Apropos of not much…what examples can PBers give of that policies/ideas that they agree with coming from individuals or groups that you fundamentally disagree with politically?

    For me:
    - Trump on NATO spending. He had a very good point.
    - Brexiters on the cultural dislocation caused by rapid immigration to a particular area, and the fact that this falls disproportionately on poorer people.
    - Right-wingers on the need for strong independent defence (this is a relatively new one for me, prompted by Ukraine)

    I agree with the LibDems on PR (though I prefer the Danish open list system) and with Rishi Sunak in cancelling HS2 (which I opposed from the start). I was enthusiastic about many of Boris's animal welfare policies, though they have now mostly been dropped by the current management.
    I agree with the Alternative Vote, restricted to being able to vote for 1st and 2nd choice only, while I oppose all other bits of voting reform for General Elections.

    I oppose tuition fees for FE/HE.

    I support an entirely unelected House of Lords (though not formed as it is now), including a hereditary element.

    But I am still going to vote Labour.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    maxh said:

    Apropos of not much…what examples can PBers give of that policies/ideas that they agree with coming from individuals or groups that you fundamentally disagree with politically?

    For me:
    - Trump on NATO spending. He had a very good point.
    - Brexiters on the cultural dislocation caused by rapid immigration to a particular area, and the fact that this falls disproportionately on poorer people.
    - Right-wingers on the need for strong independent defence (this is a relatively new one for me, prompted by Ukraine)

    Sir Keir on nationalising rail & utilities
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    edited January 15

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    Weirdly, e-bikes are limited while two-tonne SUVs are not.

    Shared use paths will probably end up with 20kph limits on them. A few have those limits in Australia, and the police occasionally enforce it.

    Shared used paths on the side of streets are typical UK half-heartedness. Just put in a proper segregated cycle lane and avoid all this conflict with pedestrians.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,067

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    I thought e-bikes should not be able to provide power assistance beyond 15 mph. At least that should be the rule, anything able to provide assistance over 15 mph needs to be legally classified as a moped.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,788
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    Find me the ones who mounted the pavement and killed someone whilst observing a 30mph limit and I'm interested.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    edited January 15

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    Weirdly, e-bikes are limited while two-tonne SUVs are not.

    Shared use paths will probably end up with 20kph limits on them. A few have those limits in Australia, and the police occasionally enforce it.

    Shared used paths on the side of streets are typical UK half-heartedness. Just put in a proper segregated cycle lane and avoid all this conflict with pedestrians.
    Although - irritatingly - the A449 from Wolves to Penkridge has a beautiful grade-separated cycle lane on each side that I frequently use myself, and some utter wanker still rides along the main dual carriageway at 8mph every morning and evening causing chaos.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953
    We envision a future where AI is built for the many, not the few
    IBM press release. And I'm pretty sure Labour was being trolled by edgy SpAds when they used that slogan, which probably comes from Star Trek rather than Shelley.
  • Options

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    France actually has ignored the ECHR to deport people and New Labour threatened to before.
    New Labour didn't give prisoners the vote after the court ruled that they should.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    ydoethur said:

    One for @dixiedean

    You won’t improve attendance by incessantly pointing out the link between going to school and getting ‘better outcomes’. You might improve it by rethinking the education system so it meets the needs of young people today rather than persisting with a hopelessly outdated model.

    https://twitter.com/John_Kendall_/status/1744682207556325432

    Could have written that myself.
    Maslow.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,868

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    I’ve got a date with a woman who identifies as a wheelie bin, but I can't remember if I'm supposed to take her out on Tuesday or Wednesday....
    Rishi probably thinks you have seven.
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    I think the Tory stewardship of Ofcom has been excellent and has got the UK into being the leader in FTTP build. They didn't do it directly of course but they were very up for splitting off Openreach which certainly helped.
  • Options
    I will never be misgendered
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    I’ve got a date with a woman who identifies as a wheelie bin, but I can't remember if I'm supposed to take her out on Tuesday or Wednesday....
    A similar woman sued one date for domestic assault.

    He didn't get the context around 'Biffa.'
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    Find me the ones who mounted the pavement and killed someone whilst observing a 30mph limit and I'm interested.
    Wales is apparently the only place in the world where driver reaction time and *the laws of physics* don't apply.

    To bring it back to politics - this opposition to 20mph limits works as a disruptive online campaign run by CCHQ. It does not, however, work at a local campaign level - "higher speeds on your street!".
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    ydoethur said:

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
    At the risk of falling into the trap of naming which election the next one will be like, may I offer 1979?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,140

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
    On that subject I understand some emergency workers are changing to electric bikes as it is now the fastest way to answer a call from their home to their station
    Cyclists are not subject to speed limits, iirc, although they are supposed to obey traffic lights which might come as a surprise to some.

    Also iirc, E-bikes are supposed to be speed-limited but pedal-powered bikes are not.
    I think a cyclist or 2 has been done for "furious cycling" - as in going really, really fast.
    In those stats I posted earlier 15 pedestrians
    were killed in 2021 by bicycles. Some cyclists seem to think that they’re exempt from the Highway Code.

    On vehicles mounting pavements and killing people I assume the vast majority were doing less than 30mph. Quite possibly several doing closer to 20 which is still fast enough to kill a child.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    Find me the ones who mounted the pavement and killed someone whilst observing a 30mph limit and I'm interested.
    Wales is apparently the only place in the world where driver reaction time and *the laws of physics* don't apply.

    To bring it back to politics - this opposition to 20mph limits works as a disruptive online campaign run by CCHQ. It does not, however, work at a local campaign level - "higher speeds on your street!".
    Of course it does.

    Why not make the speed limit 4 miles per hour by your logic? Or require someone to walk in front of a vehicle carrying a flag?

    30mph is not a high speed on a through road.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    France actually has ignored the ECHR to deport people and New Labour threatened to before.
    Despicable on both counts.
    It shows why it’s necessary to leave the ECHR. That way we wouldn’t have to ignore them.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    ...
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
    A Socialism of a National kind? How very original.

    image
    It's quite possible to be a socialist and a patriot (or even a nationalist). It doesn't make you a National Socialist by any stretch. Conservatives spent decades smearing Labour by claiming their true allegiance was to Moscow - on the contrary, many of the most patriotic people I ever encountered were Labour supporters.
    Back in the day, many of us foolish "back British Workers, back Britain" advocates stood on the hardshoulder verge besides our incapacitated Morris Itals, Austin Ambassadors and Rover SD1s as the Tories sailed past in their Audi 80s, Volvo 240s and Honda Accords.
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Why is Matthew Stadlen not standing for Parliament?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    ydoethur said:

    One for @dixiedean

    You won’t improve attendance by incessantly pointing out the link between going to school and getting ‘better outcomes’. You might improve it by rethinking the education system so it meets the needs of young people today rather than persisting with a hopelessly outdated model.

    https://twitter.com/John_Kendall_/status/1744682207556325432

    I listened to Gillian Keegan on the Rest is Politics this morning.

    She sounds like a sane Tory. She did rather appear to have her head in the sand about the failing education system ('that's not what I hear from the schools I visit') though.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,788
    viewcode said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    In his own ward . . . next to schools.

    image

    There's a world of difference between having 20mph at schools and 20mph everywhere.
    @Luckyguy1983 , it appears you have a doppelganger
    :lol:

    I have more hair gel and bigger eye bags.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815
    edited January 15
    Iowa GOP Releases 2024 Caucus Results Website - MONDAY, JANUARY 15, 2024

    https://www.iowagop.org/iowa_gop_releases_2024_caucus_results_website

    Ahead of tonight's First-in-the-Nation Iowa Caucus, set to commence at 7PM CST, the Republican Party of Iowa is publicly releasing its results tabulation website:

    https://results.iacaucus2024.com/

    As precinct caucuses across all 99 Iowa counties conduct and relay the results of their presidential preference polls, the Iowa GOP's caucus results site will be populated with vote tallies at precinct, county, and statewide levels.

    Vote tallies for the following candidates will be provided, in addition to an aggregate "other" category for all other votes cast in the 2024 caucus's presidential preference poll: Ryan Binkley, Governor Chris Christie*, Governor Ron DeSantis, Ambassador Nikki Haley, Governor Asa Hutchinson, Vivek Ramaswamy, and President Donald J. Trump.

    The Republican Party of Iowa will not be making any other statements or declarations about the results of the 2024 caucus beyond what will be listed on the results webpage.

    *Christie will still be included on the Iowa GOP's reporting site and official E forms, which went into production well before Christie suspended his campaign last week.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    Find me the ones who mounted the pavement and killed someone whilst observing a 30mph limit and I'm interested.
    Wales is apparently the only place in the world where driver reaction time and *the laws of physics* don't apply.

    To bring it back to politics - this opposition to 20mph limits works as a disruptive online campaign run by CCHQ. It does not, however, work at a local campaign level - "higher speeds on your street!".
    Just to remind you it is Welsh Labour and Plaid with the local authorities, bus companies, and other organisations that are reviewing the 20mph here in Wales
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953

    I think the Tory stewardship of Ofcom has been excellent and has got the UK into being the leader in FTTP build. They didn't do it directly of course but they were very up for splitting off Openreach which certainly helped.

    ... after sneering at Labour for its broadband plans, they decided maybe Jezza was onto something after all.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,193
    edited January 15

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    I’ve got a date with a woman who identifies as a wheelie bin, but I can't remember if I'm supposed to take her out on Tuesday or Wednesday....
    Do you take her from the back to the front at night then vice versa in the morning?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,140

    Are we really at the point where the Home Sec is going to ignore the ECHR?

    I remember years ago people said if Brexit happened the ECHR would be next. Death penalty after that?

    This is really a wicked and dangerous government.

    France actually has ignored the ECHR to deport people and New Labour threatened to before.
    New Labour didn't give prisoners the vote after the court ruled that they should.
    It’s been an enduring feature of Tory administrations that they’ve always preferred to complain about laws, especially those with the word Europe on them, than ignore them. France has a long and very naughty history of just ignoring regulations that don’t suit it.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    I’ve got a date with a woman who identifies as a wheelie bin, but I can't remember if I'm supposed to take her out on Tuesday or Wednesday....
    Did you hear about the scarecrow who became a psephologist?

    He was really into straw polls.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Remember too, until the Uxbridge by-election Andrew R T Davies and his band of derelicts were four square behind 20mph.

    TBF to BigG the implementation has been very poor.
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    I think the Tory stewardship of Ofcom has been excellent and has got the UK into being the leader in FTTP build. They didn't do it directly of course but they were very up for splitting off Openreach which certainly helped.

    ... after sneering at Labour for its broadband plans, they decided maybe Jezza was onto something after all.
    I maintain that it was Corbyn's 2017 manifesto that Johnson stole that got him that 80 seat majority.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    One for @dixiedean

    You won’t improve attendance by incessantly pointing out the link between going to school and getting ‘better outcomes’. You might improve it by rethinking the education system so it meets the needs of young people today rather than persisting with a hopelessly outdated model.

    https://twitter.com/John_Kendall_/status/1744682207556325432

    I listened to Gillian Keegan on the Rest is Politics this morning.

    She sounds like a sane Tory. She did rather appear to have her head in the sand about the failing education system ('that's not what I hear from the schools I visit') though.
    She is not sane.

    She's the person forcing OFSTED to fail schools so they can be force academised, while refusing to intervene in OFSTED's own massive safeguarding failures.

    Plus, she covers up negative issues in the hope they will affect her successor.

    Finally, she's married to a former senior official of Fujitsu.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    ydoethur said:

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
    …just 13 years, and a Tory returned to Downing Street.

    And I was surprised how many hammerings Conservatives had in the 20’s and 30’s, I always thought they did largely okay in this period. It makes the 30 years from 1920 to 1950 look very volatile. Maybe even a fickle electorate?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    edited January 15

    ydoethur said:

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
    …just 13 years, and a Tory returned to Downing Street.

    And I was surprised how many hammerings Conservatives had in the 20’s and 30’s, I always thought they did largely okay in this period. It makes the 30 years from 1920 to 1950 look very volatile. Maybe even a fickle electorate?
    There were several changes in the electorate, but it's misleading to say they had 'hammerings'. They were out of power for three years in total from 1915-45, nobody else ever won a majority and only in 1929 were they not the largest party.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,549
    edited January 15

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    What is silly about it? Most people don't do politics. And they are massively prone to influence by other people like them on social media. Except here we see that some of the social media protests aren't by people like them. Done to incite them from far away.

    Are some people upset by it? Yes. Has it caused issues? Absolutely. But like the ULEZ row its all mouth by the gobby, trying to whip up a mob to then be manipulated to vote Tory against their interests.

    BTW we have 20mph limits in Scotland. On Primary Routes like the A68. It slows me down when driving to England. Big deal. They are needed. And I don't need Tory councillors from hundreds of miles away to shit stir opposition to them. And neither do you.

    I know you have cut your ties with the Tories despite drifting along off their bow. But surely you can see that 20mph-loving Tory councillors in Sunderland should not be creating Facebook groups to channel opposition to 20mph limits in Wales.
    Remember too, until the Uxbridge by-election Andrew R T Davies and his band of derelicts were four square behind 20mph.

    TBF to BigG the implementation has been very poor.
    Thank you for your comments which we both agree on and let's hope the forthcoming review irons out the anomalies

    We also agree on Andrew RT Davies
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815
    ydoethur said:

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
    Give her the Inside Story of the Regulas Compact/Plot!

    (Believe you were fly on the wall? OR was it rot in the roof?)
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,731

    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.

    This lot couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
    Not sure about that - they organised a fair number at No. 10 during lockdown.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088
    I must say this is a refreshing change in the stuffy world of poetry.


    “Jamaican poet Jason Allen-Paisant has won this year’s TS Eliot prize for Self-Portrait As Othello, his collection exploring Black masculinity and immigrant identity.“

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/jamaican-poet-jason-allen-paisants-self-portrait-as-othello-wins-ts-eliot-prize

    It’s about time the middle aged white males stepped aside
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    It’s all getting ridiculously heated for a Monday evening. Moving the subject along, let’s do what PB does best - political history.

    The chart the Telegraph published this morning. What is the background behind each of those historical massive losses of seats?

    246 losses in 1906? What short of slay your firstborn policy upset everyone? And how did the incoming winners react to such a win?

    And how many years did it take to be in power again when chucked out with a hammering - probably a lot quicker than we presume, 5-15 years, less than a generation?

    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/20e6f36875400c0af6487d2c6058e9b5eb3b11f1/0_0_1582_1036/master/1582.jpg?width=700&dpr=2&s=none

    1906 was Tariff Reform. The British were obsessed with Free Trade which they claimed made food cheaper. A suggestion by the Unionists to tax wheat imports was received like a cup of cold sick.

    Also, the Liberals weren't 'incoming winners.' 1905 was the last time a majority government resigned without losing a general election first.

    1905 (when they left, before the election) they were back in under ten years, as part of a wartime coalition. They would probably have returned to power in 1915 anyway but it isn't certain.

    1945 was six years. 1966 was 4. 1997 was, well...
    Give her the Inside Story of the Regulas Compact/Plot!

    (Believe you were fly on the wall? OR was it rot in the roof?)
    No idea, as I've never heard of the Regulas Compact.

    I know a thing or two about the Relugas Compact, but I have to be up at five tomorrow so haven't time to tell you.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.

    This lot couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
    Not sure about that - they organised a fair number at No. 10 during lockdown.
    Number 10 under Johnson was a brothel not a brewery.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    @JohnJCrace

    So it sounds like the Home Secretary’s new cunning plan is to whisper to the Commons tomorrow that he would ignore EHRC and hope Rwanda doesn’t hear. Brilliant.

    This lot couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
    Not sure about that - they organised a fair number at No. 10 during lockdown.
    They're that incompetent they couldn't find a brewery to have their piss-up in.
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,872

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    I’ve got a date with a woman who identifies as a wheelie bin, but I can't remember if I'm supposed to take her out on Tuesday or Wednesday....
    I think Craig David can help you out there

    https://youtu.be/P5lmb5-tnM0?si=eBs9q_ETYNtaQXo_
This discussion has been closed.