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  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    Guess what, even the worst of humanity deserve legal representation.

    But PBers will have noticed your Islamophobia.

    How do you sleep at night, working for an organisation that helped prosecute the innocent?
    I'm rationally afraid of Islamism

    I think that your third line might be the very stupidest collection of words that I've ever seen on this blog
    I believe you quite probably meant to write "I'm (ir) rationally afraid of Islamism".
  • Options

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
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    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Iran has been the source of instability in the region and a problem for over 40 years.

    Give it back to the princes of Persia.
    Ah that was a classic piece of my childhood.

    So they've got sixty minutes to get a sword, escape from jail and defeat the evil vizier Jaffar and rescue a princess?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Iran has been the source of instability in the region and a problem for over 40 years.

    Give it back to the princes of Persia.
    Watch the spikes that pop out of the floor, and those chopper-thingies :lol:
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,008
    edited January 15

    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Stop talking Shi'ite.

    We successfully invaded Iran before and that was for oil as well.
    I thought it was to help the Soviets during WW2?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran
    It was also to protect the British subjugation of India.
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    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    Guess what, even the worst of humanity deserve legal representation.

    But PBers will have noticed your Islamophobia.

    How do you sleep at night, working for an organisation that helped prosecute the innocent?
    I'm rationally afraid of Islamism

    I think that your third line might be the very stupidest collection of words that I've ever seen on this blog
    I believe you quite probably meant to write "I'm (ir) rationally afraid of Islamism".
    What do you think islamism is?

    It is a doctrine that insists that I must die for refusing to subjugate to it

    What are you rationally afraid of?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    Also, lots of people like the latter Tory live in nice 1920s and 1930s and 1950s suburbs. Which are 15 minute cities and LTNs avant la lettre. Just have a look at Petts Wood, for instance.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904
    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    isam said:

    Farage doesn’t seem up for a deal with the Tories

    The Conservative Party does not have a God-given right to your vote. The way some of the newspapers are behaving over this is bizarre.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1746955637324398900?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Obviously not sound on the C of E, that chap. Bad egg.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Iran has been the source of instability in the region and a problem for over 40 years.

    Give it back to the princes of Persia.
    Ah that was a classic piece of my childhood.

    So they've got sixty minutes to get a sword, escape from jail and defeat the evil vizier Jaffar and rescue a princess?
    If only it were that simple today.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355

    Carnyx said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    In his own ward . . . next to schools.

    image

    There's a world of difference between having 20mph at schools and 20mph everywhere.
    Oh yes, and how are the children supposed to get home without being run over? You admit schools need 20mph: that means 20mph everywhere in residential areas.
    No it bloody well does not.

    Kids go home plenty of ways. Via their parents picking them up, via buses, walking on footpaths etc

    Outside schools however you get hundreds of pupils stepping out at the same time, whether they're walking home or walking to their parents car or bus stop or wherever, which inevitably results in pupils walking on the road rather than the footpath.

    Within hundreds of metres from the school, the crowds have dispersed and people can and do walk on the footpath.
    So you demand that children never go anywhere else, lest they dirty the tyres? I see.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    Also, lots of people like the latter Tory live in nice 1920s and 1930s and 1950s suburbs. Which are 15 minute cities and LTNs avant la lettre. Just have a look at Petts Wood, for instance.
    Remember how unpopular ULEZ was? Everyone up in arms? Strident media and social media opposition?

    And the same with 20mph zones in Wales. Social media is perfectly capable of having angry locals rant and then organise on local Facebook. So when you see these x against 20mph run from SUNDERLAND, we can see what is going on here.

    People in Wales elected a government and councils who set sped limits. Tory councillors a long long way away want to boast about doing the same thing - setting 20mph speed limits as they see fit for safety - whilst berating Labour hundreds of miles away for doing the same.

    Its culture wars. Done appallingly badly. By rank amateur hypocrites.
  • Options

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    A number of people have said that 20mph is perfectly reasonable outside schools, but as a blanket policy is awful.

    Here we have someone saying a blanket policy of 20mph is bad, but outside schools it is reasonable.

    Yeah, you are stupid if you think that's contradictory or can't comprehend the point being made. But I know you're not stupid, so you're being deliberately pig-headed instead.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    Nigelb said:

    Lee Anderson is getting sacked.

    The Rwanda Bill.

    I have signed the Cash & Jenrick amendments.

    I will vote for them.


    https://twitter.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1746961966764028269

    Does Rishi dare ?
    Well he won't have a functioning government if he doesn't.
    How much worse could it be?

    I suppose it could go to the level of British Gas.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904
    isam said:

    John Sweeney vs Michael Crick

    I'm a bit surprised, John, that in so valiantly defending Ed Davey over the Post Office, you don't tell your almost 300,000 followers that you're currently trying to become a Lib Dem MP.
    How did the hustings for the Hamble Valley seat go last Wednesday? Quite well, I hear.


    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1746930120571400514?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Crick has been pushing on Davey extremely hard, to the extent that one wonders about Crick’s actual motives. He actually suggested that Davey was unfit to be a minister which is absurd hyperbole.

    Is he still, per Wikipedia, a member of the Labour Party?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Iran has been the source of instability in the region and a problem for over 40 years.

    Give it back to the princes of Persia.
    That shahn't happen.
  • Options

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    Indeed, some PBers are showing their fascist tendencies.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    If directors want the money and glory, they should do the work.
    Oh, you.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904
    edited January 15

    Nigelb said:

    Lee Anderson is getting sacked.

    The Rwanda Bill.

    I have signed the Cash & Jenrick amendments.

    I will vote for them.


    https://twitter.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1746961966764028269

    Does Rishi dare ?
    The counterargument is that Lee clearly wants the martyrdom, much like Suella did.

    But yes, Rishi will look even more pathetic if he doesn't sack him.
    Is it possible for Rishi to look more pathetic?
    I laughed out loud to read that he might be considered an effective administrator. He really isn’t.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904
    edited January 15

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    Indeed, some PBers are showing their fascist tendencies.
    Yes. We need to get a “fash” button, so we can flag certain posts.

    Leon is another big culprit. I think Leon believes he is some kind of cognitive elite who will surely hold the whip-hand under any fascist regime.

    History is littered with the corpses of such dupes.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    Indeed, some PBers are showing their fascist tendencies.
    Well, it is the Iowa caucus tonight. Lots of Fascism to talk about there.
  • Options

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,008
    edited January 15
    Are Reform proposing forced repatriation ?



    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1746974064592249152/photo/1
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    isam said:

    John Sweeney vs Michael Crick

    I'm a bit surprised, John, that in so valiantly defending Ed Davey over the Post Office, you don't tell your almost 300,000 followers that you're currently trying to become a Lib Dem MP.
    How did the hustings for the Hamble Valley seat go last Wednesday? Quite well, I hear.


    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1746930120571400514?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Crick has been pushing on Davey extremely hard, to the extent that one wonders about Crick’s actual motives. He actually suggested that Davey was unfit to be a minister which is absurd hyperbole.

    Is he still, per Wikipedia, a member of the Labour Party?
    I'm fairly sure you have to be a member of the Liberal Democrats to be the party leader, but it would add an interesting twist to coalition negotiations if he was a Labour member.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331
    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,913
    edited January 15
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    In his own ward . . . next to schools.

    image

    There's a world of difference between having 20mph at schools and 20mph everywhere.
    Oh yes, and how are the children supposed to get home without being run over? You admit schools need 20mph: that means 20mph everywhere in residential areas.
    No it bloody well does not.

    Kids go home plenty of ways. Via their parents picking them up, via buses, walking on footpaths etc

    Outside schools however you get hundreds of pupils stepping out at the same time, whether they're walking home or walking to their parents car or bus stop or wherever, which inevitably results in pupils walking on the road rather than the footpath.

    Within hundreds of metres from the school, the crowds have dispersed and people can and do walk on the footpath.
    So you demand that children never go anywhere else, lest they dirty the tyres? I see.
    No, they can go wherever they want.

    But only outside schools do you get crowds of hundreds of children spilling out into the streets as they don't all fit on the footpath.

    I see it every single day at my kids school. The secondary school next door breaks up before my daughter's primary school does and majority of the pupils seem to make their own way home. They spill out onto the street outside the school (which has been, rightly, designated 20mph) and disperse in a multitude of directions. The crowd only exists outside the school though.

    When I am away about 0.25 mile drive to or from my daughter's school to pick/drop off the girls - and away again, I can see plenty of secondary school students out and about, on the pavement, waiting at bus stops etc - but none on the road. However directly outside the school, there's crowds of kids and many walking on the road itself, which quite rightly is lowered speed limit as a result.

    It makes perfect sense to drop the speed limit at the school itself, where there's crowds of kids spilling onto the road - it makes no sense to do so elsewhere, where its not the case. Individual or small groups of kids can easily fit on the pavement.

    By the time the 20 turns back into 30 away from the school, there's absolutely no issue of crowds of kids making things dangerous for either them or anyone else. Its only at the school itself there's a greater risk.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904

    Are Reform proposing forced repatriation ?


    If one is to be charitable, then no.
    Merely a call to limit incomers to the (unhindered) volume of outgoers.

    Reform are a pack of thick and nasty shits, though.
    Astonishing to read that several posters seem to support them.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    It'd have made more sense to invade Iran rather than Iraq.

    As much as it was a mistake, I’m glad they made that mistake rather than invading Iran. That would have been much worse.
    Iran has been the source of instability in the region and a problem for over 40 years.

    Give it back to the princes of Persia.
    That shahn't happen.
    This discussion's a trap for our more bloodthirsty members who've never forgotten the glory days of governing some exotric province.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    I am not supporting anyone, just asking a straightforward question on the limits of free speech and in what way has this group violated them.
    What are your definitions?

    "Previously Hizb ut-Tahrir, which Tony Blair and David Cameron tried to ban when they were in Downing Street, has made calls to “wipe out that Zionist entity” and referred to “the monstrous Jews”." (2)

    "In October, the group’s members attended a rally outside the Egyptian and Turkish embassies in London and called for “Muslim armies” to attack Israel." (2)

    I might suggest that HuT are a hideously nasty group that stand against everything you, as a 'lefty', should stand for. But apparently not.

    "Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT; Arabic: حزب التحرير, romanized: Ḥizb at-Taḥrīr, lit. 'Party of Liberation') is an international pan-Islamist and Islamic fundamentalist political organization whose stated aim is the re-establishment of the Islamic caliphate to unite the Muslim community (called ummah)[3] and implement sharia globally" (1)

    (1): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir
    (2): https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/islamist-group-hizb-ut-tahrir-to-be-banned-organising-uk
    I am not a supporter of them, obviously! Indeed I oppose pretty much all of their policies.

    But I dislike the government deciding what are acceptable beliefs. I don't think we should outlaw people who call for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza (as a number of posters have here) either.
    Has anyone on here called for 'ethnic cleansing of Gaza'? (Aside from those who propose a one-state solution...)

    How about the people who call support for Hamas, who, by definition, want to remove all Jews from Israel?

    But it's not just HuT's beliefs that are an issue, it's their words. as I showed above.
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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    O/T - but for the PB fans of 'Scandi-noir' I can recommend "Floodland" for those who haven't seen it. It's on "Walter Presents".

    https://crimefictionlover.com/2021/05/floodland-brings-flemish-crime-fiction-to-our-screens/

    "Floodland is a Belgium-Netherlands co-production set in modern day Flanders-Zeeland, the borderland region between the two countries either side of the Scheldt river. It’s a blackly comic police drama that draws heavily on the clash of cultures between city, cosmopolitan liberal values and an out-of-touch rural community".

    I'm not sure I see a lot of 'comic' in it - but it's well written, acted and photographed.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,545
    ohnotnow said:

    O/T - but for the PB fans of 'Scandi-noir' I can recommend "Floodland" for those who haven't seen it. It's on "Walter Presents".

    https://crimefictionlover.com/2021/05/floodland-brings-flemish-crime-fiction-to-our-screens/

    "Floodland is a Belgium-Netherlands co-production set in modern day Flanders-Zeeland, the borderland region between the two countries either side of the Scheldt river. It’s a blackly comic police drama that draws heavily on the clash of cultures between city, cosmopolitan liberal values and an out-of-touch rural community".

    I'm not sure I see a lot of 'comic' in it - but it's well written, acted and photographed.

    Sounds interesting, I might try watching.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
  • Options

    Are Reform proposing forced repatriation ?


    If one is to be charitable, then no.
    Merely a call to limit incomers to the (unhindered) volume of outgoers.

    Reform are a pack of thick and nasty shits, though.
    Astonishing to read that several posters seem to support them.
    I wonder when they will realise that the final two pledges are linked?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,776
    edited January 15
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    John Sweeney vs Michael Crick

    I'm a bit surprised, John, that in so valiantly defending Ed Davey over the Post Office, you don't tell your almost 300,000 followers that you're currently trying to become a Lib Dem MP.
    How did the hustings for the Hamble Valley seat go last Wednesday? Quite well, I hear.


    https://x.com/michaellcrick/status/1746930120571400514?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Crick has been pushing on Davey extremely hard, to the extent that one wonders about Crick’s actual motives. He actually suggested that Davey was unfit to be a minister which is absurd hyperbole.

    Is he still, per Wikipedia, a member of the Labour Party?
    I'm fairly sure you have to be a member of the Liberal Democrats to be the party leader, but it would add an interesting twist to coalition negotiations if he was a Labour member.
    Oh I don't know we managed to infiltrate Liz Truss into the Conservatives and she became Conservative party leader. All seems fair game to me. I doubt politics could get even more confusing even if all the party leaders belonged to a different party to the one they actually led.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    ...

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    Guess what, even the worst of humanity deserve legal representation.

    But PBers will have noticed your Islamophobia.

    How do you sleep at night, working for an organisation that helped prosecute the innocent?
    I'm rationally afraid of Islamism

    I think that your third line might be the very stupidest collection of words that I've ever seen on this blog
    I believe you quite probably meant to write "I'm (ir) rationally afraid of Islamism".
    What do you think islamism is?

    It is a doctrine that insists that I must die for refusing to subjugate to it

    What are you rationally afraid of?
    Do you live in Saudi or Afghanistan?
  • Options

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,549
    edited January 15
    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues

    I would just add the Police have confirmed there will be no convictions at less than 26mph so it is noticeable that 20mph is rarely being adhered to and where it is unfortunate tailgating and dangerous overtaking is happening as I have witnessed

    Mind you I have not driven since the 27th December due to my health reasons and will only regain my licence once I have had my pacemaker fitted on the 6th February
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,788
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    edited January 15
    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176
    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    Has 30p been sacked yet?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    Hence why I was saying to make them safer, build by-passes...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
    Perhaps we should sleep with it? Er, on it.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
    Is Blanche 'him'? I always assumed Blanche was a female first name.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
    Not at all. He’s making various intemperate attacks on Starmer and seeking to present him as some kind of terror-enabler or sympathiser.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815
    For all you Airbus fans out there

    FIRE DURING TAKEOFF on Jetblue A321 at Kennedy Airport
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1OO9eh8v0
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    edited January 15
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    How many of the drivers in question were both (a) sober and (b) observing the 30mph speed limit?
  • Options
    I wonder how Manchester police were so Islamophobiaphobic that they managed to miss thousands of paedophile gang rapes by people from Pakistan and Afghanistan that were reported to them

    They probably got told that there had been more paedo rapes by whites than any other group

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    edited January 15
    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    I wonder how Manchester police were so Islamophobiaphobic that they managed to miss thousands of paedophile gang rapes by people from Pakistan and Afghanistan that were reported to them

    They probably got told that there had been more paedo rapes by whites than any other group

    To be fair, they missed them at the Catholic Church, Islington Borough Council* and OFSTED too.

    I'm afraid the grim truth is as a country we're rather shit at enforcing laws against child sex abuse.

    *The Met rather than GMP.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,904

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues

    I would just add the Police have confirmed there will be no convictions at less than 26mph so it is noticeable that 20mph is rarely being adhered to and where it is unfortunate tailgating and dangerous overtaking is happening as I have witnessed

    Mind you I have not driven since the 27th December due to my health reasons and will only regain my licence once I have had my pacemaker fitted on the 6th February
    It's caused anger in Facebook groups run by English Tories.

    Given the tailgating and dangerous overtakes you've observed, you should get in touch with the police and ask them to enforce driving regulations more often in your area.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815
    NBC - Prominent Republicans make sure to endorse Trump before Iowans caucus

    Within the last few days, a number of prominent Republican officials came off the sideline to make sure they got their Trump endorsements in before Iowa voters caucus today.

    Since Jan. 5, nine House Republicans, two governors and five senators announced they are backing Trump, according to an NBC News tracker. Among them, Republican Sens. Marco Rubio, Jim Risch, Mike Lee, Cynthia Lummis and John Barrasso.

    The endorsements came after The New York Times reported earlier this month that Trump allies told lawmakers he would be paying close attention to see who has and has not endorsed him ahead of today's caucuses.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues

    I would just add the Police have confirmed there will be no convictions at less than 26mph so it is noticeable that 20mph is rarely being adhered to and where it is unfortunate tailgating and dangerous overtaking is happening as I have witnessed

    Mind you I have not driven since the 27th December due to my health reasons and will only regain my licence once I have had my pacemaker fitted on the 6th February
    It's caused anger in Facebook groups run by English Tories.

    Given the tailgating and dangerous overtakes you've observed, you should get in touch with the police and ask them to enforce driving regulations more often in your area.
    No idea about English Facebook pages, and the police have publicallly said they will not enforce the 20mph restrictions at speeds of 26mph or less
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,026
    ohnotnow said:

    I idly wondered what was at 297 Fulham Road now - turns out it's a Sainsbury's Local. I wonder if they have a plaque.
    Interesting. Is that one opposite Chelsea and Westminster Hospital?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues
    It has been implemented well by some local authorities and dreadfully by others. The Vale of Glamorgan, where I live had done very well. Almost all others not so much.

    The notion held by people like Nick Ferrari that all roads except motorways in Wales operate a 20mph speed limit, is by the way incorrect.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331
    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    100%. I am so used to driving at 20mph that 30mph seems ludicrously fast in a residential area. I was driving outside
    London the other day and got beeped for driving at 22mph!

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    How?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    ydoethur said:

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
    And giving Thomas Hardy a permanent dose of the miseryguts.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    How?
    'Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here.'

    Sounds like they should fuck only people from foreign countries...

    (This was not intended entirely seriously, btw, but your phrasing was unfortunate.)
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
    And giving Thomas Hardy a permanent dose of the miseryguts.
    Now come on. That was the first Mrs Hardy's fault.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
    And giving Thomas Hardy a permanent dose of the miseryguts.
    Now come on. That was the first Mrs Hardy's fault.
    He'd already had to supervise clearing the St P kirkyard before they married, so my sympathy is entirely with the lady.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    Here you go:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/15/sunak-faces-tory-meltdown-as-deputy-chairs-back-rwanda-bill-rebellion
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,744

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
    Is Blanche 'him'? I always assumed Blanche was a female first name.

    They could be a "they".
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953
    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
  • Options

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues
    It has been implemented well by some local authorities and dreadfully by others. The Vale of Glamorgan, where I live had done very well. Almost all others not so much.

    The notion held by people like Nick Ferrari that all roads except motorways in Wales operate a 20mph speed limit, is by the way incorrect.
    Re your last paragraph that is a just wrong by Ferrari

    The correct answer is that all previous 30mph zones in Wales are now 20mph zones and the reference to blanket policy only relates to all 30mph zones

    I am sure we can both agree the review is to take place across Wales with changes taking place over the coming months
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    ydoethur said:

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    So that Ukrainians would have the freedom to march for almost anyone except putinists
    and islamists

    Islamism is utterly incompatible with any other belief system

    We need to remove it where we can

    Jihadis should fuck a long way off from here
    Sounds positively eugenicist when you put it that way.
    Oh give it a rest.

    Blanche isn't like that and it's a bit silly everyone's gunning for him and throwing accusations of fascism around.

    If there's any of that it comes from the Islamists, not him.
    Is Blanche 'him'? I always assumed Blanche was a female first name.

    They could be a "they".
    Only Blanche can say.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    It is the case that in Wales the blanket policy has caused anger when it could have been introduced in a more consensual manner

    Notwithstanding from the likely successors to Drakeford, Plaid, Local Authorities and others a review is to take place and changes will happen hopefully to address the issues
    It has been implemented well by some local authorities and dreadfully by others. The Vale of Glamorgan, where I live had done very well. Almost all others not so much.

    The notion held by people like Nick Ferrari that all roads except motorways in Wales operate a 20mph speed limit, is by the way incorrect.
    Re your last paragraph that is a just wrong by Ferrari

    The correct answer is that all previous 30mph zones in Wales are now 20mph zones and the reference to blanket policy only relates to all 30mph zones

    I am sure we can both agree the review is to take place across Wales with changes taking place over the coming months
    Ferrari thinks it's all 20.

    Charles Leclerc isn't surprised...
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331
    edited January 15
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder how Manchester police were so Islamophobiaphobic that they managed to miss thousands of paedophile gang rapes by people from Pakistan and Afghanistan that were reported to them

    They probably got told that there had been more paedo rapes by whites than any other group

    To be fair, they missed them at the Catholic Church, Islington Borough Council* and OFSTED too.

    I'm afraid the grim truth is as a country we're rather shit at enforcing laws against child sex abuse.

    *The Met rather than GMP.
    For some reason, this conversation reminds me of a factoid I was told on stats course, long, long ago,

    Between 1865 and 1965, so the story went, no white man was convicted of murdering a black man, in Mississippi. A number of black men were convicted of murdering white men.

    What does this tells us about Mississippi in that 100 year period?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,140
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    Hence why I was saying to make them safer, build by-passes...
    Provincial France is interesting as a comparator.

    Virtually no bypasses- they really don’t do them in the way we do in Britain, so traffic often goes through the centre of town.

    The national speed limit is 80kph (used to be 90 but reduced a few years ago to encourage fuel economy). That’s about 50mph. In built up areas the default is 50kph, around 31mph. In villages and town centres it’s 30kph, or about 18mph, and there are usually one or two speed bumps in villages and towns.

    Drivers seem to know and understand the rules. They are less random than in Britain. It’s notable that they often speed on country roads, and there are often crashes, but almost always adhere to limits in settlements. The trouble is you still get people crossing the road at the edge of villages where the speed limit is rising or falling. And France is more rural.

    France has around 7 pedestrian fatalities per million population per year. The lowest in the EU is Sweden at 2.6. Highest Romania at 37.5! The UK is at 5.3 per million.

    I assume the differences are partly to do with lifestyle. Ie in Sweden it’s cold and dark half the year, settlements are widely spread, so few people walk. Whereas in Romania there’s dense rural population and a warm climate so people are always walking around.

    Interesting stats here. 15 pedestrians killed by cyclists in 2021.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    For the vast majority of human existence it was; and if you get hit by something travelling at 30mph it is.
  • Options
    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 611
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    The British Library has still not recovered from its catastrophic cyber attack.

    Will anyone at the Library be held accountable for what appears to have been shoddy IT security?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/jan/15/british-library-cyber-attack-staff-users-analysis

    No doubt Starmer is to blame somehow; it is in his constituency.
    I hadn't thought of that.

    Is Euston in it as well? If so, can we blame him for the collapse of HS2 and the dismantling of the Euston Arch?
    And giving Thomas Hardy a permanent dose of the miseryguts.
    Now come on. That was the first Mrs Hardy's fault.
    Nonsense. Hardy was deplorable to his first wife. He became devoted to her only after she died.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    Which mission do you think they should be given in the space program?

    First manned landing on Uranus?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,806
    edited January 15

    ydoethur said:

    Cheer me up, people, I've had to send another furious email to British Gas.

    It was a really difficult email to compose as I had to avoid all the words that would describe them aptly but might trigger their spam filter.

    Which mission do you think they should be given in the space program?

    First manned landing on Uranus?
    That would mean they were buggering me, not the other way around.

    They've already done enough of that.
  • Options
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    Hence why I was saying to make them safer, build by-passes...
    Provincial France is interesting as a comparator.

    Virtually no bypasses- they really don’t do them in the way we do in Britain, so traffic often goes through the centre of town.

    The national speed limit is 80kph (used to be 90 but reduced a few years ago to encourage fuel economy). That’s about 50mph. In built up areas the default is 50kph, around 31mph. In villages and town centres it’s 30kph, or about 18mph, and there are usually one or two speed bumps in villages and towns.

    Drivers seem to know and understand the rules. They are less random than in Britain. It’s notable that they often speed on country roads, and there are often crashes, but almost always adhere to limits in settlements. The trouble is you still get people crossing the road at the edge of villages where the speed limit is rising or falling. And France is more rural.

    France has around 7 pedestrian fatalities per million population per year. The lowest in the EU is Sweden at 2.6. Highest Romania at 37.5! The UK is at 5.3 per million.

    I assume the differences are partly to do with lifestyle. Ie in Sweden it’s cold and dark half the year, settlements are widely spread, so few people walk. Whereas in Romania there’s dense rural population and a warm climate so people are always walking around.

    Interesting stats here. 15 pedestrians killed by cyclists in 2021.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-pedestrian-factsheet-2021
    Yes, roads in the UK are incredibly safe.

    Not that you'd know it from some of the fanatics on this website who take a zero covid/zero accidents zealot like mentality.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,815

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder how Manchester police were so Islamophobiaphobic that they managed to miss thousands of paedophile gang rapes by people from Pakistan and Afghanistan that were reported to them

    They probably got told that there had been more paedo rapes by whites than any other group

    To be fair, they missed them at the Catholic Church, Islington Borough Council* and OFSTED too.

    I'm afraid the grim truth is as a country we're rather shit at enforcing laws against child sex abuse.

    *The Met rather than GMP.
    For some reason, this conversation reminds me of a factoid I was told on stats course, long, long ago,

    Between 1865 and 1965, so the story went, no white man was convicted of murdering a black man, in Mississippi. A number of black men were convicted of murdering white men.

    What does this tells us about Mississippi in that 100 year period?
    Also at least one case, before 1860, of free Black man killing another free Black man ("the Barber of Natchez); killer was NOT prosecuted or convicted, because only witnesses were also Black; thus their testimony was ipso facto inadmissible.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Welsh anti-20mph Facebook groups are being run by, er, a Tory councillor in Sunderland who supports 20mph in his own ward:

    https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1746942241950560337

    Dirty tricks on social media? Who'd have thunk it?
    So when we keep being reassured that 20mph is Drakeford Labour's terrible policy which has got lot of people angry, we know that the angry people organiser is a Sunderland Tory in favour of 20mph limits.

    They think people are stupid.
    You are better than that silly remark

    Indeed I have supported the 20mph policy but not its implementation which even Drakeford's successors have promised to review

    I live in Wales and experience not only the practical issues but the widespread anger in every day conversations, which you do not living in the NE of E Scotland

    I could post multiple links to conversations not only with politicians, but the police, the bus companies, the taxi companies, and many more who accept the blanket change from 30mph to 20mph was just wrong
    The problem is that child road casualties occur pretty much uniformly across neighbourhoods, including on main roads. Check out the various STATS19 data based maps.

    Adult casualties occur primarily at junctions (which is another argument for LTNs, but that's another debate).

    There are other benefits for uniform limits - much cheaper to implement, less confusing for drivers, the introduction of a "new normal" that is easier to adhere to. I instinctively drive around my hometown at 20mph out of a habit developed in Edinburgh.
    Yes, but you're being rational.

    *Edinburghcityofenlightenment*
    Of course, pedestrians could always try walking on the pavements, where they may find they go unmolested by cars proceeding at blistering speeds like 30mph.
    Sadly, between 2005 and 2018, 548 pedestrians were killed by drivers mounting pavements. Perhaps 20mph limits would've saved some of those lives?
    How many of the drivers in question were both (a) sober and (b) observing the 30mph speed limit?
    Well said.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    There are some reports that this attack on the US consulate in Erbil included missiles that came directly from Iran.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1747000867192963429
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    edited January 15
    They publicly insult God and King on PB FOR the badge of honour!
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    edited January 15
    Jesus, actual hatred of Islam today on here.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Home Office to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir as terror group
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67984295

    The same Hizb ut-Tahrir that was due to be proscribed by the Blair and Cameron governments who announced it but did not follow up.

    Sounds like Starmers fault to me.
    Funny you should say that, he represented them in court when they were proscribed in Germany

    Starmer acted for extremist Islamist group in bid to overturn ban
    Labour leader applied to European Court of Human Rights to reverse Germany's prohibition of Hizb ut-Tahrir


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/16/keir-starmer-represented-extremist-islamist-group/
    I bet if one digs down deeper, the barsteward defended Dr Crippen, the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West and Harold Shipman.
    It's not only Starmer

    Sadiq was the Nation of Islam lawyer when they appealed Louis Farrakhan's ban from the UK

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/31/humanrights.islam?CMP=gu_com
    Why do you hate the cab rank rule?

    I guess you ony want representation for people you like/agree with?

    I bet you would have argued against representation for the subpostmasters, the Birmingham Six, and Stefan Kizko.
    His cab was always conveniently ready to give Islamist groups a lift

    Is there a Halal cab queue?
    Almost like a top human rights lawyer gets hired in human rights cases.

    But are all these 'halal' sic?


    Neat how your list concludes by bringing us back to Hizb ut-Tahrir
    I appreciate HuT are Islamist, and may well be anti-semitic, but have they ever been involved in terrorism?
    Encouraging jihad is their big thing

    They may not have blown themselves up, but they must share responsibility for many hundreds of terrorist attacks around the globe
    What do you think the limits to free speech should be? And which have they broken?
    We're seeing some really odd behaviour from PB lefties on here today. Strong support for Houtis blowing up ships in the Red Sea, and now support for groups that encourage Jihad.

    I guess Corbynism isn't dead... :(
    Corbynism isn't dead, even in 2019 32% of UK voters voted for him and in their guts most lefties would prefer PM Corbyn to PM Starmer.

    Just after Corbyn's heavy defeat in 2019 they realised they had to compromise with the electorate and elect a boring, competent centrist like Starmer as Labour leader
    Corbynism in its most virulent form likely is. For a time Corbyn gained the support of the generally left-wing and not just the far left. That had arguably already unwound by 2019 - when Brexit and the choice with Johnson kept more onside than otherwise might have been the case. While Labour MPs won't make their 2015 mistake and let someone they think is crackers on the ballot.

    I'd note even in the Young Labour elections (a small sample size) - which used to be a Corbynite walkover, the centrists are winning.

    There will always be a left though, just an impotent shouty bit that wants to go on marches, and one inside Labour that realises that if it wants left-wing policies in Britain, it needs to find leaders without the deeply flawed worldview that so often led him to look like he wanted to side with those who wanted to do us harm.
    I doubt there are many who share Jeremy Corbyn's fascination with Central American politics.
    The interesting aspect of "left" politics currently is you have the socialist and internationalist strain that is represented by Corbyn but we are seeing in Germany the emergence of a different kind of socialist politics - nationalist, anti-immigrant and culturally conservative emphasising the need to raise taxes and provide services support first and foremost for indigenous people. That "could" be an attractive option and there's a clear niche for it if Reform heads down an economically Thatcherite route (likely with Farage in charge).
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    You very quickly get used to universal 20mph. We’ve had it around me in London for a while now. Such that driving at 30mph in a residential area feels stupidly fast. Moreover, there are fewer snarl ups, because drivers have longer to make decisions about when to let oncoming traffic through a line of parked cars.

    I was a sceptic. But, like most people, I got used to it and now wouldn’t go back.

    Again, it's not pure residential neighbourhoods in London or Cardiff or even Rhyl that are the potential issue. It's through routes where both a higher speed would be sensible and signposting (or lack thereof) is causing issues.

    Some councils have taken action to mitigate this - e.g. Gwynedd - some have not.

    Really, if Drakeford had been serious about cutting road deaths building more by passes would have been the way to go. The ones for Caernarfon and Drenewydd are genuinely transformative for those towns. New ones for Aberystwyth, or Aberaeron, or Lampeter, or a new motorway past Newport, would have had an even greater impact. As would a proper road bridge across the Menai.

    But - where he did build new roads, he tended to bugger about with them anyway (Heads of the Valleys, dualled at vast expense but actually slower than the old single track road, anyone?) and he didn't build nearly enough of them. So Wales is stuck with bad infrastructure that isn't safe or effective.

    And I might add - I'd have a lot more sympathy for his 'safer roads' crusade if he did something about the illegal bikers plaguing Wales and riding at ridiculous speeds with no comeback at all, rather than writing mealy-mouthed bullshit in support of them when they kill themselves riding like utter twats.
    Except that the majority of road casualties occur on the "main road", particularly if it passes through a built up area as a High Street.

    Indeed, the 20mph limits introduced by the Tories in the Scottish Borders directly targeted HGVs and other vehicles making their way to the M74 via A roads that pass through these settlements.
    The Welsh don't deserve that treatment, it would seem from the discussion on PB.

    Butd perhaps they don't count when it comes to bleeding-heart Tories in Sunderland and (presumably) St Boswells?

    The problem is that it's not lorry drivers using cut-offs to get to the motorways. Those roads through the towns and villages are often the nearest thing to motorways Wales has.

    You want to eliminate that? Improve the roads.
    But meanwhile, the drivers deem it their divine right to ...
    Drive on the roads that are there.

    How wrong of them.
    ... at high speed ...
    Whether you think it is too fast for conditions or not, 30mph is not 'high speed.'
    By your definition. It feels stupid driving that quickly in a residential area once you get used to 20mph (which you do, very quickly).
    By no reasonable definition is 30mph 'high speed.' It may be considered moderate speed. I can do more than that on a bog standard pushbike FFS.
    The local delivroo* electric bike riders do more than 20mph.

    We have proof of this, since on one road, we have one of those electronic signs that show your speed. They regularly clock over 30. Many have bikes that are, essentially electric motorbikes.

    They have made the dedicated lanes for cycling unusable by cyclists, and often scream abuse at anyone impeding their progress. Including children... One child (riding back from school), got slammed off his bike, almost in front of me, the other day.

    Nothing is being done - given their velocity, their charging through traffic lights and a substantial local elderly community, it is only a matter of time until something truly nasty happens.

    The resemblance, in manner and behaviour to the kind of Americans who "roll coal" and actively attack cyclists is striking. I suppose it just goes to show that it is the human being and not the tool which is the moral agent.

    *deliveroo in the sense of hoover for vacuum cleaner.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    The operation of both rule of law, and liberal democracy, means we often have to defend people for things we don’t personally condone.

    I’d have thought this was basically liberalism 101.

    It makes you wonder why Blanche was indeed so willing to fight for Ukraine. What did he think he was fighting for?

    Indeed, some PBers are showing their fascist tendencies.
    Yes. We need to get a “fash” button, so we can flag certain posts.

    Leon is another big culprit. I think Leon believes he is some kind of cognitive elite who will surely hold the whip-hand under any fascist regime.

    History is littered with the corpses of such dupes.
    You can’t even define Fascism. I get PAID to define it

    I therefore diagnose this otherwise bizarre comment as a byproduct of pure jealousy
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    I wonder how Manchester police were so Islamophobiaphobic that they managed to miss thousands of paedophile gang rapes by people from Pakistan and Afghanistan that were reported to them

    They probably got told that there had been more paedo rapes by whites than any other group

    No one is condoning the behaviour of councils and police forces in turning a blind eye to rapists and paedophiles. If those rapists and paedophiles were not prosecuted because they happened to belong to a particular faith group that is an outrageous miscarriage of justice.

    Those who try to conflate Rochdale, Rotherham and Telford based taxi driver rapists and paedophiles with law abiding Muslims going about their day to day lives are reprehensible bigots.
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    Jesus actual hatred of Islam today on here.

    Not sure why there'd be Jesus actual hatred, or what Jesus has to do with it.

    Christianity isn't much better.
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