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#NU10K – politicalbetting.com

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  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    TOPPING said:

    Not to channel @bjo but the Nick Ferrari interview with SKS on the working class is bloody funny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqrfv8QkmYA

    Saw it the day it happened it is funny as you say

    He is going to crumble like a cheap mince pie in a GE

    But Starmer still more working class than Jeremy Corybyn.

    Question for you, with what is going on at the moment, do you think Shapps should stand down from defence because he is Jewish?
    Cause not.

    What a stupid question what has him been Jewish got to do with anything

    If it were proven he was a paid agent of a foreign power like Luke Akehurst then maybe.
    Did we ever get to the bottom of DONKEYGATE?
    I answered this when you asked yesterday, keep up.
    I assumed you were muling it over.
    You’re the donkey. You’re the donkey in donkey gate.

    What are you drinking this afternoon? Pints of Camden Hels? We know how this ends - by 10:30 you are posting T R U S S at all angles, and sleep it off in the PB spam trap.

    Donkey gate. Mail got excited when they learned of people really angry after Starmer over selling some land. But all it boiled down to was anger at what the buyer stuck on it, no problem with a citizen making honest money from a land sale.
    I'm entirely sober. I want ANSWERS on DONKEYGATE. Frankly, you remind me of that Sir Ted Gravy with your duplicitous attempts to avoid my questions.
    I’ve answered twice in 24 hrs 🤷‍♀️
    Unsatisfactorily.
    What do you want - actual deeds and donkeys? 🤷‍♀️
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    Absolutely

    Remember Richie Benaud the Aussie cricket commentator? He had this weird habit of turning direct to the camera and speaking to YOU as a viewer. It was odd, but sometimes effective

    I reckon it would be much more effective from politicians. Stop, wait, turn directly to the camera, and say “SORRY, WE FAILED YOU”

    I reckon that would earn you seven trillion votes and - if @foxy is right - it does not create any legal liability. Also, it is better for everyone if you JUST SAY SORRY if you have clearly screwed up

    Davey has done the opposite, he’s got all the negatives of looking sorry and guilty with none of the positives of fessing up and reaching out. Derrr
    Equally I think if he said “I’m not saying sorry because…” and have good reasons, that would be better than the legalese he seemed to be speaking
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    I agree. Although I suspect they don't like it coming from the same person or party too often (I doubt this has happened often enough to research?), as that'd look incompetent and weak.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    maxh said:

    Late to the party but interesting header @Malmesbury, thanks. I must admit I read the title, thought “why are pb.com branching out into conspiracy theories?” and scrolled down expecting to see @Leon or @Luckyguy1983 or one of our other pet conspirators authoring it.

    I think it’s a compliment to say that, when I saw who wrote it, I scrolled back up and read the whole thing.

    I am with @algarkirk that much data is needed before it can move beyond the realms of lizard-people.

    All the same, assuming there is some truth
    to the lack of accountability, I do wonder whether this is just a very imperfect antidote to our current tendency to fetishise individual responsibility in our culture.

    Sure, Paula Vennells is an inadequate human, but we should not have systems or cultures that allow individual inadequacies to have this big an impact. Ergo, individuals who are held responsible for systemic failures probably aren’t as responsible as we think they are.

    This doesn’t mean the opposite is true I.e. that they have much talent. I’d argue few people stand out much either because of their talent or their mendacity. It’s the systems and culture (largely a product of late-stage capitalism) that are more at fault for eg the Horizon mess.

    I've been out exercising and have missed lots of the conversation, so apols. if this has been covered.

    But I think something like this nu10k might be best seen as not a universal truth, but as a nebulous category. There are certainly people it fits rather well (Private Eye would often mention them...), but the lower edges of the 10k will be very nebulous, with far more than 10k people who partly fit it, or even those who aspire to be one of the 10k.

    Also, the nu10k might face more challenges if 'we' got better at training people up from the ranks. In ye olden days, a young lad might be picked out as having management potential on the railways (Gerard Fiennes being one example). They spent a few years at the bottom of the ladder, learning the basics of the business, and would then get promoted up. Many fell by the wayside or got diverted. But at the end of it, you had people at the top who knew the business inside out.

    Nowadays, someone gets promoted to leadership who has zero idea about the industry they are in. That need not be a barrier to success, but it seems it all too often is.
    We’re back to #NU10K being an ill-defined, nebulous thing. Some of the complaints have been against NHS managers. I train some NHS managers. NHS managers generally start at the bottom and work their way up. Cressida Dick, named in the article, joined the police as a Constable.

    So, who and what are we talking about? Or is this just to be a catch-all slogan for anything people want to complain about?
    Must be some real clowns on their promotion boards if she made it to the top and if she is seen as a star what a state the Met must be in.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,123
    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    edited January 12

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    I agree. Although I suspect they don't like it coming from the same person or party too often (I doubt this has happened often enough to research?), as that'd look incompetent and weak.
    Has to be/look sincere though. Clegg's great apology didn't do him any favours (too late, it wasn't really an apology for the thing in question...)

    ETA: This version is fun though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo although the insincerity of the non-apology ("we couldn't keep all our promises" - couldn't rather than chose not to)

    Heh, beaten to it by @Sunil_Prasannan - I hadn't seen this version before, was googling the original
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, I forecast the LDs would benefit from the Post Office scandal.

    I forecast they will benefit even more from coverage of Davey's resignation, and the election of a new leader.
    It would damage the party in the coming election. Resignation would look like admittance of guilt, though he has little to be guilty for, but it would act like a lightning rod for nations anger right onto the LibDems.

    By next week this spotlight moves from Lib`dems to the far far more guilty Tory Party.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    If you are a constitutional originalist, the evidence against presidential immunity is absolutely overwhelming.

    I'm interrupting my 2-month Twitter hiatus b/c I've just found a highly relevant speech from the Ratification debates (1788):
    Against Presidential Immunity & Unitary Executive theory (interpreting the Opinions Clause).
    Future SCOTUS Justice Iredell, NC Convention, 7/28/1788:M

    https://twitter.com/jedshug/status/1745830406526505085

    English-born ex-tax collector for British govt who betrayed his employer to lead insurrection (ahem) in North Carolina against King in Parliament.

    VERY, very Woke especially for a slave-owning Federalist.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    It's particularly disappointing when you consider how successful the Elizabeth Line has been. It's possible the enormous construction bill will be paid off within 20 years because passenger numbers are so high.
    Yes but London is so much more important than Manc. Apparently.

    The whole decision is pure idiocy. Especially as the line will get built eventually, just for even more money. The HS2 decision took me from thinking Sunak was just an annoying wee prick to actively loathing him.
    And still no direct trains from anywhere north, west, south or east of London, a couple of stations on HS1 excepted, on which one can go to the rest of Europe without a greater or lesser trek on foot with luggage and offspring etc through a still seedy part of London.
    A bodge perhaps, but surely they can find a line along which to bore an airport style transit, moving walkways etc. between Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross.

    I know it's busy down there, but surely that's the minimum.
    King's Cross and St Pancras are linked underground.

    It's quite a way to Euston. I mean, it's a short walk on a nice day, but that would be a lot of tunnelling.
    It’s about 600 yards from Euston to StP.

    That’s a lovely 10m walk on a nice sunny day, but a total and utter pain in the arse in winter when carrying your bags for an international trip.

    They should have built a tunnel, even if it was airport-style with travelators, and even if they had to go about 10 floors down to miss the numerous other tunnels in the area and the many basements of the British Library.
    They should have linked the bloody lines. That is what they should have done. Pathetic British fudge to save a few quid. We should have had direct trains to Paris from Manchester, Birmingham etc.
    You say that, but the reality is that once you get to north of - say - Watford Gap, then getting the train to Paris no longer looks a great option relative to flying.

    And how many trains a day are we talking? Trains are amazing for super dense routes (like - errr - London to Paris). But for Manchester? Well, (a) it's going to take a lot longer than flying and (b) you're going to have a lot less choice about when you travel.

    Now, if we were in Schengen, and there were no passport checks, then adding services would be pretty cost free, and why not. But we're not. And therefore running services is expensive because you need occasional - but proper - passport checks.
    Wrong. Show your working Manchester City Centre to Paris City Centre. We have had this argument several times before. I won it.
    No we didn't.
    Your memory is failing you.
    It's really not.

    But I'm happy to do the numbers for you. Even though most people don't actually live in Manchester City Center, and therefore you are deliberately choosing something that most benefits trains.

    And let's give the absolute best case for train time to Paris from Manchester, shall we? Let's go with 4 hours and 30 minutes.

    Let's also pretend that Gare du Nord is not in a pretty inconvenient part of Paris, and that you don't wait 30 minutes for a taxi there.

    Now, of course, what time of day are you leaving? Because there will be - at most - two trains a day from Manchester. That means if you need to get to Paris for - say - an 11am meeting, then that simply is impossible by train, because there won't be a train at ... wait ... 5am. (And yes, you do need to have a train a 5am, or indeed, probably more like 4:30am, because you have that pesky one hour time gap against you.)

    But that's OK. You're starting at Manchester Piccadilly. At 4am. To get that train at 4:30am that won't exist. But we'll pretend it does. This gets you into Gare du Nord at 10am. And you make your 11am meeting.

    If - by contrast - you are catching the 7:05am EasyJet flight to Paris, you don't even need to get up until 5am. You can have a leisurely shower and get to into the station at 5:30am. (So, an hour an a half later than with the train.) You can then either catch a train to Manchester Airport (13 minutes) or get an Uber. The train gets you there an hour and twenty before your flight. Which is plenty of time. And even if you miss the train, there are plenty more.

    Now, the airport's hassle. But you won't have any problems getting on your 7:05am flight, which lands
    at Charles de Gaulle at 9:35am. Take the RER and you'll get to your meeting a few minutes before the train. Take the taxi, and you'll be there massively earlier as you won't be queueing.

    I love trains. And - as I said before - if we were in Schengen it would be different.

    But we're not. And the train from Manchester takes a minimum of three hours more than a plane. If you're starting in the centre and the train times align, then - sure - it's probably more hassle free to catch the train. But it sure as shit isn't quicker.

    And if you're coming from outside the centre - like 95% of people - then it's not going to be close at all. The plane is going to be hours faster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Slightly comical, Michael Howard-esque repetition of a stock phrase from Ed Davey here, but he has a point that it’s for the Post Office & Fujitsu to apologise rather than him doesn’t he?

    https://x.com/itvnewspolitics/status/1745812161002197495?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Piers Morgan can’t have it

    What a snivelling little weasel. If Davey saw another public figure dodge accountability like this, he’d demand they resign, as he has done many times over the years. He should live up to his own high standard bar and
    go.


    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1745813838195212452?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Should he resign? I think if he did the motivation would be because he may become a drag on his party rather than because he’s done anything wrong. He has been pretty unlucky that this has come up now
    Jesus fucking Christ that’s terrible. Catastrophic

    I am actually a touch simpatico with Ed Davey on this subject, he just got unlucky in his timing, but why not just say sorry????

    Is there some legal reason?! How can saying “I’m sorry, the UK government failed you” put you in jeopardy?

    That looks like a career ender
    It just looks like a parody of a politician. Something Harry Enfield might do

    Quite amazing how the method of dodging a question hasn’t changed at all in twenty odd years. It would have actually looked a lot better if he’d said “I’m not going to say sorry, because I did my job to the best of my ability given the information I had to work with”

    Again, this seems AFAICS to miss the main Davey issue, which is that he was paid vast amounts in consultancy fees by the lawyers acting for PO management who were trying to bang up innocent SPMs. Unless I am misunderstanding? The issue isn't one of incompetence but of actively helping out the bad guys. I think?
    His work for them (they are a big firm) was purely to do with environmental and energy issues.
    You think the mob baying for blood care about that ?

    As you say above, it's unfair - and spectacularly so that he should be the one politician singled out in this manner - but it's not about fair.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Slightly comical, Michael Howard-esque repetition of a stock phrase from Ed Davey here, but he has a point that it’s for the Post Office & Fujitsu to apologise rather than him doesn’t he?

    https://x.com/itvnewspolitics/status/1745812161002197495?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Piers Morgan can’t have it

    What a snivelling little weasel. If Davey saw another public figure dodge accountability like this, he’d demand they resign, as he has done many times over the years. He should live up to his own high standard bar and
    go.


    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1745813838195212452?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Should he resign? I think if he did the motivation would be because he may become a drag on his party rather than because he’s done anything wrong. He has been pretty unlucky that this has come up now
    Regardless of the rights and wrongs at the time, the way he's handling it now shows that he's not up to the job of leading a major party.
    Good thing he doesn't then.
    Damn it, you beat me to it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,293
    Part of Davey's problem is that to be sorry would be to admit that he might not be a very effective politician. He didn't ask the right questions and just got pushed around by the system, in which case what is the point of him?

    The same obviously goes for scores of other people who were in senior positions and failed.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    TOPPING said:

    Not to channel @bjo but the Nick Ferrari interview with SKS on the working class is bloody funny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqrfv8QkmYA

    Saw it the day it happened it is funny as you say

    He is going to crumble like a cheap mince pie in a GE

    But Starmer still more working class than Jeremy Corybyn.

    Question for you, with what is going on at the moment, do you think Shapps should stand down from defence because he is Jewish?
    Cause not.

    What a stupid question what has him been Jewish got to do with anything

    If it were proven he was a paid agent of a foreign power like Luke Akehurst then maybe.
    Did we ever get to the bottom of DONKEYGATE?
    I answered this when you asked yesterday, keep up.
    I assumed you were muling it over.
    You’re the donkey. You’re the donkey in donkey gate.

    What are you drinking this afternoon? Pints of Camden Hels? We know how this ends - by 10:30 you are posting T R U S S at all angles, and sleep it off in the PB spam trap.

    Donkey gate. Mail got excited when they learned of people really angry after Starmer over selling some land. But all it boiled down to was anger at what the buyer stuck on it, no problem with a citizen making honest money from a land sale.
    I'm entirely sober. I want ANSWERS on DONKEYGATE. Frankly, you remind me of that Sir Ted Gravy with your duplicitous attempts to avoid my questions.
    I’ve answered twice in 24 hrs 🤷‍♀️
    Unsatisfactorily.
    What do you want - actual deeds and donkeys? 🤷‍♀️
    As a minimum.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    .
    MaxPB said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Slightly comical, Michael Howard-esque repetition of a stock phrase from Ed Davey here, but he has a point that it’s for the Post Office & Fujitsu to apologise rather than him doesn’t he?

    https://x.com/itvnewspolitics/status/1745812161002197495?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Piers Morgan can’t have it

    What a snivelling little weasel. If Davey saw another public figure dodge accountability like this, he’d demand they resign, as he has done many times over the years. He should live up to his own high standard bar and
    go.


    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1745813838195212452?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Should he resign? I think if he did the motivation would be because he may become a drag on his party rather than because he’s done anything wrong. He has been pretty unlucky that this has come up now
    Regardless of the rights and wrongs at the time, the way he's handling it now shows that he's not up to the job of leading a major party.
    Good thing he doesn't then.
    We look forward to saying the same about whoever succeeds Rishi.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    edited January 12
    edit Sunil'd.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    Absolutely

    Remember Richie Benaud the Aussie cricket commentator? He had this weird habit of turning direct to the camera and speaking to YOU as a viewer. It was odd, but sometimes effective

    I reckon it would be much more effective from politicians. Stop, wait, turn directly to the camera, and say “SORRY, WE FAILED YOU”

    I reckon that would earn you seven trillion votes and - if @foxy is right - it does not create any legal liability. Also, it is better for everyone if you JUST SAY SORRY if you have clearly screwed up...
    Didn't one Nick Clegg attempt something along those lines... ?
    His was a prepared statement, still all about them being in control. I think what would be better is a politician responding to an interviewers question with an honest apology.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    Or just part of the mob.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    State of Democracy in the UK

    71% of Brits back an immediate Gaza ceasefire.

    ✅ Support 71%
    ❌ Oppose 12%

    82% of Labour voters back a ceasefire.

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 20-21 December

    Don't be a complete twat, it doesnt matter in the least what anyone in the uk thinks we cant impose a ceasefire regardless of if the polls were a 100% in favour. It is not our business let them decide what to do because we really have no say in it
    We have little say, but we are involved e.g.

    >Rearming and resupplying Israel from RAF Akrotiri
    >Providing signals intelligence from drones and planes in the med
    >Supporting the American med fleet with a RN task group and ships near Iran

    There's a narrative that we talk about Israel to the exclusion of other world conflicts. Maybe, but we also act in supporting Israel 'unconditionally' and are being drawn into the Yemen problem. Something that was much less of a problem before the conflict.
    We should I agree not get involved in any of the middle east and let it burn, if we are lucky the issues will be solved when either they wipe each other out or we finally get a single power. The middle east has been a powder keg for 100's of years. One of the two options is the only way its ever getting sorted so let it burn
    Post of the day
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Every few years I get the train from Finland to the London and resolve never, ever to do it ever again. Then I try again after a few years and have the same terrible experience.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    Absolutely

    Remember Richie Benaud the Aussie cricket commentator? He had this weird habit of turning direct to the camera and speaking to YOU as a viewer. It was odd, but sometimes effective

    I reckon it would be much more effective from politicians. Stop, wait, turn directly to the camera, and say “SORRY, WE FAILED YOU”

    I reckon that would earn you seven trillion votes and - if @foxy is right - it does not create any legal liability. Also, it is better for everyone if you JUST SAY SORRY if you have clearly screwed up...
    Didn't one Nick Clegg attempt something along those lines... ?
    His was a prepared statement, still all about them being in control. I think what would be better is a politician responding to an interviewers question with an honest apology.
    Yes, but faking sincerity well is a rare skill.
    Davey, who is actually fairly sincere, seems completely to lack that skill.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Slightly comical, Michael Howard-esque repetition of a stock phrase from Ed Davey here, but he has a point that it’s for the Post Office & Fujitsu to apologise rather than him doesn’t he?

    https://x.com/itvnewspolitics/status/1745812161002197495?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Piers Morgan can’t have it

    What a snivelling little weasel. If Davey saw another public figure dodge accountability like this, he’d demand they resign, as he has done many times over the years. He should live up to his own high standard bar and
    go.


    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1745813838195212452?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Should he resign? I think if he did the motivation would be because he may become a drag on his party rather than because he’s done anything wrong. He has been pretty unlucky that this has come up now
    Jesus fucking Christ that’s terrible. Catastrophic

    I am actually a touch simpatico with Ed Davey on this subject, he just got unlucky in his timing, but why not just say sorry????

    Is there some legal reason?! How can saying “I’m sorry, the UK government failed you” put you in jeopardy?

    That looks like a career ender
    It just looks like a parody of a politician. Something Harry Enfield might do

    Quite amazing how the method of dodging a question hasn’t changed at all in twenty odd years. It would have actually looked a lot better if he’d said “I’m not going to say sorry, because I did my job to the best of my ability given the information I had to work with”

    Again, this seems AFAICS to miss the main Davey issue, which is that he was paid vast amounts in consultancy fees by the lawyers acting for PO management who were trying to bang up innocent SPMs. Unless I am misunderstanding? The issue isn't one of incompetence but of actively helping out the bad guys. I think?
    His role wrt all this is much more problematic than Starmer's. In a GE campaign it'll be bought up like Tim "It's a sin" Farron
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Meanwhile back at the ranch . . .

    What are the odds, that the 2024 Iowa Republican precinct caucuses, will be plagued by something similar to debacles of the 2014 GOP caucuses AND the 2020 Democratic caucuses?

    That is, errors in tabulation and recording of results from thousands of precincts from Dubuque to Sioux Falls, in an election process conducted once every four years (if then) by volunteer organizers and vote counters.

    Possibly aided (if not abetted) by crap technology (what a concept!) and less-than-accountable management at state level. AND exacerbated by close outcomes.

    As in 2012 and 2020.

    More seasoned (and hardened) PBers well- (or rather ill-) remember the angst of Brit bookies and bettors alike when Iowa GOP declared Mitt Romney the winner in 2012 . . . only to take it back and declare Rick Santorum the winner when all votes were canvassed and counted.

    And in 2020, the Democratic cluster-feck similarly robbed the real winner, Pete Buttigieg of his potential (and crucial) early momentum.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If you want a bit of apprentice level seer, the chaff the Tories chucked out this week just can’t last much longer, the questions in my previous post - which you can’t answer - will find the Tory Party very soon, along with much anger.

    Do you know where Badenoch is, is she well? Is she in hiding because she’s herself exposed to Fujitsu cash and lobbying?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    edited January 12

    Nigelb said:

    If you are a constitutional originalist, the evidence against presidential immunity is absolutely overwhelming.

    I'm interrupting my 2-month Twitter hiatus b/c I've just found a highly relevant speech from the Ratification debates (1788):
    Against Presidential Immunity & Unitary Executive theory (interpreting the Opinions Clause).
    Future SCOTUS Justice Iredell, NC Convention, 7/28/1788:M

    https://twitter.com/jedshug/status/1745830406526505085

    English-born ex-tax collector for British govt who betrayed his employer to lead insurrection (ahem) in North Carolina against King in Parliament.

    VERY, very Woke especially for a slave-owning Federalist.
    A more comprehensive takedown of the immunity/not an officer nonsense, here:
    https://balkin.blogspot.com/2024/01/eureka-not-president-is-officer-of.html?m=1
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,653
    Goodbye Tenerife 😔
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,453
    edited January 12

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    I agree. Although I suspect they don't like it coming from the same person or party too often (I doubt this has happened often enough to research?), as that'd look incompetent and weak.
    Just think. Had Boris apologised- properly apologised- for Partygate, he might still be there.

    No, not everyone would have forgiven him, either because they really hated him before or they felt personally taken for a mug by what happened (what was Aaron Bell's line on that?).

    But enough venom would have been taken from enough of the darts to make a difference, I suspect.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,076

    Pagan2 said:

    State of Democracy in the UK

    71% of Brits back an immediate Gaza ceasefire.

    ✅ Support 71%
    ❌ Oppose 12%

    82% of Labour voters back a ceasefire.

    Via
    @YouGov
    , 20-21 December

    Don't be a complete twat, it doesnt matter in the least what anyone in the uk thinks we cant impose a ceasefire regardless of if the polls were a 100% in favour. It is not our business let them decide what to do because we really have no say in it
    We have little say, but we are involved e.g.

    >Rearming and resupplying Israel from RAF Akrotiri
    >Providing signals intelligence from drones and planes in the med
    >Supporting the American med fleet with a RN task group and ships near Iran

    There's a narrative that we talk about Israel to the exclusion of other world conflicts. Maybe, but we also act in supporting Israel 'unconditionally' and are being drawn into the Yemen problem. Something that was much less of a problem before the conflict.
    In any case, I suspect the poll suffers from 'nice option' bias. Of course people want a cease fire. Who would prefer people shooting to people not shooting? I suspect if you asked people they would also be in favour of Israelis being left alone to live their lives without the threat of murder, kidnap or rape too. This is trying to elicit a yes/no answer to an essay question.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Slightly comical, Michael Howard-esque repetition of a stock phrase from Ed Davey here, but he has a point that it’s for the Post Office & Fujitsu to apologise rather than him doesn’t he?

    https://x.com/itvnewspolitics/status/1745812161002197495?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Piers Morgan can’t have it

    What a snivelling little weasel. If Davey saw another public figure dodge accountability like this, he’d demand they resign, as he has done many times over the years. He should live up to his own high standard bar and
    go.


    https://x.com/piersmorgan/status/1745813838195212452?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Should he resign? I think if he did the motivation would be because he may become a drag on his party rather than because he’s done anything wrong. He has been pretty unlucky that this has come up now
    Jesus fucking Christ that’s terrible. Catastrophic

    I am actually a touch simpatico with Ed Davey on this subject, he just got unlucky in his timing, but why not just say sorry????

    Is there some legal reason?! How can saying “I’m sorry, the UK government failed you” put you in jeopardy?

    That looks like a career ender
    It just looks like a parody of a politician. Something Harry Enfield might do

    Quite amazing how the method of dodging a question hasn’t changed at all in twenty odd years. It would have actually looked a lot better if he’d said “I’m not going to say sorry, because I did my job to the best of my ability given the information I had to work with”

    Again, this seems AFAICS to miss the main Davey issue, which is that he was paid vast amounts in consultancy fees by the lawyers acting for PO management who were trying to bang up innocent SPMs. Unless I am misunderstanding? The issue isn't one of incompetence but of actively helping out the bad guys. I think?
    His role wrt all this is much more problematic than Starmer's. In a GE campaign it'll be bought up like Tim "It's a sin" Farron
    Yes, for all I’ve gone on about it, the effect on Sir Keir will just be to disable his “When I was DPP”
    boasts. No one thinks he should resign. He’s already distancing himself from these cases, having previously claimed full responsibility for every decision taken by the CPS while he was DPP. In this video for example

    https://x.com/maw6578/status/1745559329267196091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    But answer the REAL question - did you ever pay cash? For anything?? Ever???
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    Absolutely

    Remember Richie Benaud the Aussie cricket commentator? He had this weird habit of turning direct to the camera and speaking to YOU as a viewer. It was odd, but sometimes effective

    I reckon it would be much more effective from politicians. Stop, wait, turn directly to the camera, and say “SORRY, WE FAILED YOU”

    I reckon that would earn you seven trillion votes and - if @foxy is right - it does not create any legal liability. Also, it is better for everyone if you JUST SAY SORRY if you have clearly screwed up...
    Didn't one Nick Clegg attempt something along those lines... ?
    His was a prepared statement, still all about them being in control. I think what would be better is a politician responding to an interviewers question with an honest apology.
    Yes, but faking sincerity well is a rare skill.
    Davey, who is actually fairly sincere, seems completely to lack that skill.
    True. But on this question faking sincerity should not be necessary. How can any decent person involved in any way in the PO scandal not be sorry? I believe Davey is decent and I expect he's sorry that he didn't poke around a little harder. He seems to have been Millibanded - prevented by advisors or his own fear from just acting himself.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    Er...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    kinabalu said:

    Goodbye Tenerife 😔

    Awww. Don’t be sad

    Post photos! With drinks! Seriously. They’re fun
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    Pro-Trump political operative Roger Stone claimed Mediaite’s report he called for assassinating two members of Congress was “fake” and said we “can’t produce the recording.”

    Here it is.

    https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1745830118235201994

    '..“It’s time to do it,” Stone told Greco. “Let’s go find Swalwell. It’s time to do it. Then we’ll see how brave the rest of them are. It’s time to do it. It’s either Swalwell or Nadler has to die before the election. They need to get the message. Let’s go find Swalwell and get this over with...'
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    PO Horizon Inquiry - Grill of the Day

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ookd0H2jpkw
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    Pro-Trump political operative Roger Stone claimed Mediaite’s report he called for assassinating two members of Congress was “fake” and said we “can’t produce the recording.”

    Here it is.

    https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1745830118235201994

    '..“It’s time to do it,” Stone told Greco. “Let’s go find Swalwell. It’s time to do it. Then we’ll see how brave the rest of them are. It’s time to do it. It’s either Swalwell or Nadler has to die before the election. They need to get the message. Let’s go find Swalwell and get this over with...'

    Die Fahne hoch!
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,067

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    But answer the REAL question - did you ever pay cash? For anything?? Ever???
    Depends how long that Amazon Fresh store across the street has been there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    kinabalu said:

    Goodbye Tenerife 😔

    Did something just happen to it ?
  • theakestheakes Posts: 935
    Ed Davey is in serious trouble, he has upset, well, blamed Senior Civil Servants, one thing a Minister or ex Minister should not do,
    "And Dave Penman, the head of the FDA union for civil servants, branded Sir Ed's comment's "outrageous" and said they were an "act of desperation from a former minister trying to save his own skin".
    Resignation Monday? Think we should be prepared for a New Lib Dem Leader, presumably a woman, the Parliamentary Party has so many.
    Favourite I suppose would be Daisy Cooper.
    Lib Dems are polling very well in the week by week by elections, moving up through the gears 4th to second etc and plenty of wins, a very good one at Salford Quays yesterday. Would a change adversely affect this, probably not when Kennedy packed it in they won the Dunfermline By Election without a leader.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,944

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: PO Scandal, might PO and/or HMG have strong case, based on evidence so far, for taking action against horde of (alleged) lawyers, investigators, tech experts, consultants, vendors, etc. for gross professional misfeasance and/or malfeasance? Amounting to massive misappropriation of public funds, with attendant criminal AND civil liabilities, penalties, etc. ,etc.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    theakes said:

    Ed Davey is in serious trouble, he has upset, well, blamed Senior Civil Servants, one thing a Minister or ex Minister should not do,
    "And Dave Penman, the head of the FDA union for civil servants, branded Sir Ed's comment's "outrageous" and said they were an "act of desperation from a former minister trying to save his own skin".
    Resignation Monday? Think we should be prepared for a New Lib Dem Leader, presumably a woman, the Parliamentary Party has so many.
    Favourite I suppose would be Daisy Cooper.
    Lib Dems are polling very well in the week by week by elections, moving up through the gears 4th to second etc and plenty of wins, a very good one at Salford Quays yesterday. Would a change adversely affect this, probably not when Kennedy packed it in they won the Dunfermline By Election without a leader.

    Ministers certainly shouldn't try to palm off blame on officials, unless the officials in question genuinely concealed crucial information or misled the minister. However, I'd be very surprised if senior civil servants don't share a part of the blame in this. It is, after all, they who have the permanent working relationship with the Post Office, against a revolving door of politicians.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    Absolutely

    Remember Richie Benaud the Aussie cricket commentator? He had this weird habit of turning direct to the camera and speaking to YOU as a viewer. It was odd, but sometimes effective

    I reckon it would be much more effective from politicians. Stop, wait, turn directly to the camera, and say “SORRY, WE FAILED YOU”

    I reckon that would earn you seven trillion votes and - if @foxy is right - it does not create any legal liability. Also, it is better for everyone if you JUST SAY SORRY if you have clearly screwed up...
    Didn't one Nick Clegg attempt something along those lines... ?
    His was a prepared statement, still all about them being in control. I think what would be better is a politician responding to an interviewers question with an honest apology.
    Yes, but faking sincerity well is a rare skill.
    Davey, who is actually fairly sincere, seems completely to lack that skill.
    True. But on this question faking sincerity should not be necessary. How can any decent person involved in any way in the PO scandal not be sorry? I believe Davey is decent and I expect he's sorry that he didn't poke around a little harder. He seems to have been Millibanded - prevented by advisors or his own fear from just acting himself.
    I know.
    Perhaps he can't process what he sees as the unfairness of being singled out like this. But whatever it is, the inability to respond sympathetically at such a juncture is pretty fatal to a political leader.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197

    Nigelb said:

    Pro-Trump political operative Roger Stone claimed Mediaite’s report he called for assassinating two members of Congress was “fake” and said we “can’t produce the recording.”

    Here it is.

    https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1745830118235201994

    '..“It’s time to do it,” Stone told Greco. “Let’s go find Swalwell. It’s time to do it. Then we’ll see how brave the rest of them are. It’s time to do it. It’s either Swalwell or Nadler has to die before the election. They need to get the message. Let’s go find Swalwell and get this over with...'

    Die Fahne hoch!
    Lock him up.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    slade said:

    Greetings from the Western Approaches. Outward bound to Bermuda - and ultimately Sydney. Probably my last great voyage as I will celebrate my 80th birthday somewhere in the Tasman Sea. I will still keep my beady eye on local elections - internet willing.

    Via jet ski? Bon voyage!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    PO Horizon Inquiry - Grill of the Day

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ookd0H2jpkw

    Update - Today's grill features an extra-oily flounder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    .

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
    I thought it was quite funny.
    Particularly the capitalisation.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,399
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:



    Lib Dem surge!

    Reform surge. If they keep going at this rate they will overtake Libs.
    Errrr.

    That poll has the LDs catching up with Reform, when they were previously behind.
    Yes, I know, but I was looking at the More In Common summary earlier today and you can see the two curves converging
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Nigelb said:

    If you are a constitutional originalist, the evidence against presidential immunity is absolutely overwhelming.

    I'm interrupting my 2-month Twitter hiatus b/c I've just found a highly relevant speech from the Ratification debates (1788):
    Against Presidential Immunity & Unitary Executive theory (interpreting the Opinions Clause).
    Future SCOTUS Justice Iredell, NC Convention, 7/28/1788:M

    https://twitter.com/jedshug/status/1745830406526505085

    Is anyone so wedded to one form of interpretation that they do not give themselves wiggle room to use another when convenient though?

    Though people seem fairly confident the Court won't be that brazen on this point at least.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,653
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Goodbye Tenerife 😔

    Did something just happen to it ?
    Yes, massive - I've left!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,150
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    It's particularly disappointing when you consider how successful the Elizabeth Line has been. It's possible the enormous construction bill will be paid off within 20 years because passenger numbers are so high.
    Yes but London is so much more important than Manc. Apparently.

    The whole decision is pure idiocy. Especially as the line will get built eventually, just for even more money. The HS2 decision took me from thinking Sunak was just an annoying wee prick to actively loathing him.
    And still no direct trains from anywhere north, west, south or east of London, a couple of stations on HS1 excepted, on which one can go to the rest of Europe without a greater or lesser trek on foot with luggage and offspring etc through a still seedy part of London.
    A bodge perhaps, but surely they can find a line along which to bore an airport style transit, moving walkways etc. between Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross.

    I know it's busy down there, but surely that's the minimum.
    King's Cross and St Pancras are linked underground.

    It's quite a way to Euston. I mean, it's a short walk on a nice day, but that would be a lot of tunnelling.
    It’s about 600 yards from Euston to StP.

    That’s a lovely 10m walk on a nice sunny day, but a total and utter pain in the arse in winter when carrying your bags for an international trip.

    They should have built a tunnel, even if it was airport-style with travelators, and even if they had to go about 10 floors down to miss the numerous other tunnels in the area and the many basements of the British Library.
    They should have linked the bloody lines. That is what they should have done. Pathetic British fudge to save a few quid. We should have had direct trains to Paris from Manchester, Birmingham etc.
    That meant smashing through Camden. We objected; as did then PM Boris Johnson’s dad, and also the MP for Camden, our next PM, Keir Starmer

    It helps to have influential next-door neighbours
    Some slum clearance would have added benefit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,150
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:



    Lib Dem surge!

    Reform surge. If they keep going at this rate they will overtake Libs.
    Let's see how they do at the byelections. They have never been able to translate their polling to real votes.

    An interesting quote from a recent Reform leaning focus group this morning:

    "There was real anger towards those profiting from misery. Jordan said: “When you see the record-breaking profits [of energy companies] it’s like a kick in the nuts.” Darron fumed at “multinational corporations making billions and billions in profit and hiding their money offshore” and Dale said the public suffer while politicians’ “mates are doing well”.

    In fact, immigration aside, when this group talked about corporate greed, NHS underfunding or the PPE scandal, you could be forgiven for presuming this was in fact a group of hardcore Jeremy Corbyn supporters, rather than voters tempted to back the populist right."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/12/done-with-labour-and-tories-reform-uk-angry-voters

    These are not easy votes for the Tories to gain, they are not right-wing, at least on economic issues.
    Neither are very many of the MAGA crowd, but somehow they’ve been duped into voting for a party that puts the tax freedoms of the American super-rich elite ahead of their own economic interests.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you are a constitutional originalist, the evidence against presidential immunity is absolutely overwhelming.

    I'm interrupting my 2-month Twitter hiatus b/c I've just found a highly relevant speech from the Ratification debates (1788):
    Against Presidential Immunity & Unitary Executive theory (interpreting the Opinions Clause).
    Future SCOTUS Justice Iredell, NC Convention, 7/28/1788:M

    https://twitter.com/jedshug/status/1745830406526505085

    Is anyone so wedded to one form of interpretation that they do not give themselves wiggle room to use another when convenient though?

    Though people seem fairly confident the Court won't be that brazen on this point at least.
    I think the point is that those most likely to incline in favour of Trump are also the most vocal originalists. For them to go against that in so blatant a manner would be serious embarrassing even to an Alito or a Thomas.

    There really isn't any wiggle room for them on this, as it's very hard to see how a textualist approach gets them anywhere else, either.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    Er...
    Sorry, I should have said "majority of people not in London is"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    Is the moral of this story that Air France's timetable was being secretly run by British Rail?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited January 12
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you are a constitutional originalist, the evidence against presidential immunity is absolutely overwhelming.

    I'm interrupting my 2-month Twitter hiatus b/c I've just found a highly relevant speech from the Ratification debates (1788):
    Against Presidential Immunity & Unitary Executive theory (interpreting the Opinions Clause).
    Future SCOTUS Justice Iredell, NC Convention, 7/28/1788:M

    https://twitter.com/jedshug/status/1745830406526505085

    Is anyone so wedded to one form of interpretation that they do not give themselves wiggle room to use another when convenient though?

    Though people seem fairly confident the Court won't be that brazen on this point at least.
    I think the point is that those most likely to incline in favour of Trump are also the most vocal originalists. For them to go against that in so blatant a manner would be serious embarrassing even to an Alito or a Thomas.

    There really isn't any wiggle room for them on this, as it's very hard to see how a textualist approach gets them anywhere else, either.
    I don't think they have any particular interest in deciding in his favour on this issue - with various delays they'll be hoping he becomes President again and most of it goes away anyway - I just think in general Supreme Court justices don't find it challenging to subordinate their intepretative preferences to their political goals. Not all the time, they're not dumb and they'll pick the right moment to do it, and can be clever in arguing why its ok in a particular situation, but it's their brains that make it easier for them to do it - we can see lesser judges lower down the pecking order get overturned precisely because they are not good at doing it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And for all you cycling lovers: electronic shifting, OMG.

    Is it really all that? I've always seen it as one of the perennial ways to try to over-commodify cycling with useless inventions cf Rapha bike clothing; titanium frames, diamong encrusted brake callipers (electric bikes being the exception).

    But the tech nerd in me is drawn to it.
    It has its place, but not in my life.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Flying from very small regional airports with no hold luggage is very convenient. You can get a taxi or lift to the front door and arrive at the airport 10 mins before boarding time. The whole thing gets ruined as soon as the airport starts growing in size and Ryanair etc arrive.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 12

    isam said:

    Has there been research on the effect of politicians saying “Sorry”?

    Not “Sorry if” just “Sorry”

    My instinct is the public would prefer it to mealy mouthed, weasel words; people forgive mistakes

    I agree. Although I suspect they don't like it coming from the same person or party too often (I doubt this has happened often enough to research?), as that'd look incompetent and weak.
    Just think. Had Boris apologised- properly apologised- for Partygate, he might still be there.

    No, not everyone would have forgiven him, either because they really hated him before or they felt personally taken for a mug by what happened (what was Aaron Bell's line on that?).

    But enough venom would have been taken from enough of the darts to make a difference, I suspect.
    Yes. If he’d have said “What was I thinking? I wanted to cut the staff some flak and got caught up in the Downing St bubble. I’m so sorry” he might have got away with it as Boris style haphazardness.

    Lockdown did funny things to people. I moved house in mid 2021 and almost moved way out into the country as I’d got so used to not seeing people v often. As it is I moved to a busy-ish village near Chelmsford, but even that seems mental in hindsight, as I was perfectly happy in Upminster. I definitely blame lockdown
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
    My current postcode is WC2H 8AN.

    Now that's central London :smile:

    But seriously, London City was a 15 to 18 minute cab ride at that time in the morning, against traffic. By contrast, getting to St Pancras would mean getting the tube. And getting through Security and Passport Control at City Airport is dramatically easier than at St Pancras. They are very happy for you to arrive 30 minutes before your flight, and I've made it with less.

    I did it both ways, and I would much much rather have caught the London City flight than the Eurostar.

    Now, however, I'm a 15 minute cycle from St Pancras. And London City is a LONG way away. It's Eurostar all the way.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:



    Lib Dem surge!

    Reform surge. If they keep going at this rate they will overtake Libs.
    Let's see how they do at the byelections. They have never been able to translate their polling to real votes.

    An interesting quote from a recent Reform leaning focus group this morning:

    "There was real anger towards those profiting from misery. Jordan said: “When you see the record-breaking profits [of energy companies] it’s like a kick in the nuts.” Darron fumed at “multinational corporations making billions and billions in profit and hiding their money offshore” and Dale said the public suffer while politicians’ “mates are doing well”.

    In fact, immigration aside, when this group talked about corporate greed, NHS underfunding or the PPE scandal, you could be forgiven for presuming this was in fact a group of hardcore Jeremy Corbyn supporters, rather than voters tempted to back the populist right."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/12/done-with-labour-and-tories-reform-uk-angry-voters

    These are not easy votes for the Tories to gain, they are not right-wing, at least on economic issues.
    A lot probably are 2019 Tory voters. Boris had the chance to deliver just what these people wanted. I could be one of them. I don’t see how the Tories win them back
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,891

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    If both Davey and Starmer are defenestrated quickly for Post Officegate, what chance of an early election? Or is Rishi frit? Would he risk it or go for his two year anniversary regardless?

    Would Rishi necessarily win against leaderless opposition? The threat of Richard Burgon would loom large, but is Rishi any more popular than Dickie DiDo?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
    I don't know whether he's done anything wrong or not, but I don't think he's going to resign.

    I'll offer you 3-1 on him going before the election if you like.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,399
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
    My current postcode is WC2H 8AN...
    Near to "Forbidden Planet". I do approve :)

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    potpourri of most recent headlines in The Seattle Times:

    Boeing is under fire after Alaska Airlines MAX 9 blowout. So is the FAA

    U.S. intensifies oversight of Boeing, will begin production audits

    [WA US Sen. Maria] Cantwell blasts FAA oversight of Boeing after 737 MAX 9 blowout

    Alaska Airlines paid $1,500 to Flight 1282 passengers. That won’t stop the lawsuits

    More Sea-Tac Airport flight cancellations, delays Friday after Boeing 737 MAX 9 blowout

    Alaska Airlines passengers sue Boeing after 737 MAX 9 blowout

    A gaping hole in Boeing’s reputation - [cartoonist] David Horsey
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
    My current postcode is WC2H 8AN.

    Now that's central London :smile:

    But seriously, London City was a 15 to 18 minute cab ride at that time in the morning, against traffic. By contrast, getting to St Pancras would mean getting the tube. And getting through Security and Passport Control at City Airport is dramatically easier than at St Pancras. They are very happy for you to arrive 30 minutes before your flight, and I've made it with less.

    I did it both ways, and I would much much rather have caught the London City flight than the Eurostar.

    Now, however, I'm a 15 minute cycle from St Pancras. And London City is a LONG way away. It's Eurostar all the way.
    London City is an exceptionally good airport. I think it's one of only two in Britain I actively prefer to sandpapering my eyeballs (the other being the delightful backwater that is East Midlands).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,003
    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    LCY for the win. Best airport in the world, at what it does.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,891
    kinabalu said:

    Goodbye Tenerife 😔

    Oh no, has Starmer set off Mount Teide?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,150
    edited January 12

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
    My current postcode is WC2H 8AN.

    Now that's central London :smile:

    But seriously, London City was a 15 to 18 minute cab ride at that time in the morning, against traffic. By contrast, getting to St Pancras would mean getting the tube. And getting through Security and Passport Control at City Airport is dramatically easier than at St Pancras. They are very happy for you to arrive 30 minutes before your flight, and I've made it with less.

    I did it both ways, and I would much much rather have caught the London City flight than the Eurostar.

    Now, however, I'm a 15 minute cycle from St Pancras. And London City is a LONG way away. It's Eurostar all the way.
    London City is an exceptionally good airport. I think it's one of only two in Britain I actively prefer to sandpapering my eyeballs (the other being the delightful backwater that is East Midlands).
    They are civilised enough only to deal with one plane at a time. As,Stansted used to be like, before O’Leary turned up offering flights to the unwashed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And for all you cycling lovers: electronic shifting, OMG.

    Is it really all that? I've always seen it as one of the perennial ways to try to over-commodify cycling with useless inventions cf Rapha bike clothing; titanium frames, diamong encrusted brake callipers (electric bikes being the exception).

    But the tech nerd in me is drawn to it.
    Yes, it is all that.

    Mechanical shifting is a pain. It's never as quick as it could be. And it frequently (no matter how often you adjust it) ends up between gears.

    With my new AXS wireless shifters, changing is instant and it's always absolutely spot on. You click and you're in your new gear. And it's exact. And it's exact every shift.

    And I have the absolute cheapest gravel bike (1x11) setup on my hybrid. So while it was expensive, it wasn't utterly ridiculous.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    Is the moral of this story that Air France's timetable was being secretly run by British Rail?
    Oops.

    Some of those 7s should have been 6s.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Anabobazina

    I used to live here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/58+Leman+St,+Greater,+London+E1+8EU,+UK/@51.5133533,-0.0730587,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x4876034a9de3dc7d:0x6dbe49e831155aee!8m2!3d51.51335!4d-0.0704784!16s/g/11c12hv8gs?entry=ttu

    And I used to have to travel regularly into Paris. And it was quicker for me (in London) to fly out of City Airport to Paris than to trek in for the Eurostar.

    I used to catch the 7:12am Air France flight, and I'd set my alarm for 5:50am. A cab would pick me up at 7:10am, and I'd reach City Airport at 7:30am, with more than 40 minutes before my flight.

    Now my place is in Central London, the maths are very different, and I get the Eurostar 100% of the time, but the idea that the train is the quickest route for the majority of people is utterly delusional.

    My office was 100 yards up the street from you at 2 Leman Street, in the ludicrously named "Aldgate Tower" (despite clearly being in Whitechapel) over Aldgate East Tube. I commuted on HS1 every day. It was hardly a trek, and suggesting that Leman Street is not in central London, being on the boundary of the City, and half a mile from Tower Bridge, is something of a stretch...
    My current postcode is WC2H 8AN.

    Now that's central London :smile:

    But seriously, London City was a 15 to 18 minute cab ride at that time in the morning, against traffic. By contrast, getting to St Pancras would mean getting the tube. And getting through Security and Passport Control at City Airport is dramatically easier than at St Pancras. They are very happy for you to arrive 30 minutes before your flight, and I've made it with less.

    I did it both ways, and I would much much rather have caught the London City flight than the Eurostar.

    Now, however, I'm a 15 minute cycle from St Pancras. And London City is a LONG way away. It's Eurostar all the way.
    Yours truly once took the boat from the Embankment to Greenwich, got quasi-hijacked at pub near (but not in) Blackheath, hitchhiked to Dover, lodged for the night on a bench at the Salvation Army, took ferry to Calais, hitchhiked to Arras, walked about that night by moonlight, then caught morning train to Paris.

    Not sure that would work as regular commute, but have heard of worse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:



    Lib Dem surge!

    Reform surge. If they keep going at this rate they will overtake Libs.
    Let's see how they do at the byelections. They have never been able to translate their polling to real votes.

    An interesting quote from a recent Reform leaning focus group this morning:

    "There was real anger towards those profiting from misery. Jordan said: “When you see the record-breaking profits [of energy companies] it’s like a kick in the nuts.” Darron fumed at “multinational corporations making billions and billions in profit and hiding their money offshore” and Dale said the public suffer while politicians’ “mates are doing well”.

    In fact, immigration aside, when this group talked about corporate greed, NHS underfunding or the PPE scandal, you could be forgiven for presuming this was in fact a group of hardcore Jeremy Corbyn supporters, rather than voters tempted to back the populist right."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/12/done-with-labour-and-tories-reform-uk-angry-voters

    These are not easy votes for the Tories to gain, they are not right-wing, at least on economic issues.
    Neither are very many of the MAGA crowd, but somehow they’ve been duped into voting for a party that puts the tax freedoms of the American super-rich elite ahead of their own economic interests.
    Yes, but would the MAGA Republicans vote for someone like Romney any more than REFUK voters would turn out for Sunak?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,653

    kinabalu said:

    Goodbye Tenerife 😔

    Oh no, has Starmer set off Mount Teide?
    He's a Bad Un!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And for all you cycling lovers: electronic shifting, OMG.

    Is it really all that? I've always seen it as one of the perennial ways to try to over-commodify cycling with useless inventions cf Rapha bike clothing; titanium frames, diamong encrusted brake callipers (electric bikes being the exception).

    But the tech nerd in me is drawn to it.
    Yes, it is all that.

    Mechanical shifting is a pain. It's never as quick as it could be. And it frequently (no matter how often you adjust it) ends up between gears.

    With my new AXS wireless shifters, changing is instant and it's always absolutely spot on. You click and you're in your new gear. And it's exact. And it's exact every shift.

    And I have the absolute cheapest gravel bike (1x11) setup on my hybrid. So while it was expensive, it wasn't utterly ridiculous.
    Surely if you want to get fit then you should not use any of this fancy tech, indeed the more inefficient the bike the better...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And for all you cycling lovers: electronic shifting, OMG.

    Is it really all that? I've always seen it as one of the perennial ways to try to over-commodify cycling with useless inventions cf Rapha bike clothing; titanium frames, diamong encrusted brake callipers (electric bikes being the exception).

    But the tech nerd in me is drawn to it.
    Yes, it is all that.

    Mechanical shifting is a pain. It's never as quick as it could be. And it frequently (no matter how often you adjust it) ends up between gears.

    With my new AXS wireless shifters, changing is instant and it's always absolutely spot on. You click and you're in your new gear. And it's exact. And it's exact every shift.

    And I have the absolute cheapest gravel bike (1x11) setup on my hybrid. So while it was expensive, it wasn't utterly ridiculous.
    Surely if you want to get fit then you should not use any of this fancy tech, indeed the more inefficient the bike the better...
    The goal is to enjoy exercise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    Interesting article by Alan Bates on why he couldn't win today, seems outside the paywall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1b11f96d-b96d-4ced-9dee-98c40008b172
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
    I don't know whether he's done anything wrong or not, but I don't think he's going to resign.

    I'll offer you 3-1 on him going before the election if you like.
    3/1 Ed Davey isn’t LD leader at the next GE?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    As next Monday approaches - its Martin Luther King Day in US a federal legal holiday - am wondering, how many PBers there may be out there, who have ever trudged through the snows of Iowa on Caucus Night?

    Or otherwise participated in the Iowa presidential precinct caucuses, either party, any year? And ditto for New Hampshire presidential primary?

    My own Iowa caucus experiences were in 1988 Dem and 2004 Dem . . . so guess I'm overdue for #3 . . .

    Just looked up weather forecast for Monday for Decorah, county seat and only urb of Winneshiek County in northeast corner of Iowa. Predicted high that day -8 degrees Fahrenheit (-22 Celcius).

    Locals are inured to cold . . . but this is truly gonna be a frosty Caucus night.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,679
    rcs1000 said:

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
    I don't know whether he's done anything wrong or not, but I don't think he's going to resign.

    I'll offer you 3-1 on him going before the election if you like.
    I agree. I'm told he's in good spirits and coping well with the pressure. Not going to resign.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    I've been doing a commute recently on certain mornings from Finland to London.
    Leave from a local airport around 5.30 getting to London before 9, with a connecting flight. I can get in to the office at the same time as my colleagues who have no idea how I got to work. The 2 hour time difference helps.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:



    Lib Dem surge!

    Reform surge. If they keep going at this rate they will overtake Libs.
    Let's see how they do at the byelections. They have never been able to translate their polling to real votes.

    An interesting quote from a recent Reform leaning focus group this morning:

    "There was real anger towards those profiting from misery. Jordan said: “When you see the record-breaking profits [of energy companies] it’s like a kick in the nuts.” Darron fumed at “multinational corporations making billions and billions in profit and hiding their money offshore” and Dale said the public suffer while politicians’ “mates are doing well”.

    In fact, immigration aside, when this group talked about corporate greed, NHS underfunding or the PPE scandal, you could be forgiven for presuming this was in fact a group of hardcore Jeremy Corbyn supporters, rather than voters tempted to back the populist right."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/12/done-with-labour-and-tories-reform-uk-angry-voters

    These are not easy votes for the Tories to gain, they are not right-wing, at least on economic issues.
    Neither are very many of the MAGA crowd, but somehow they’ve been duped into voting for a party that puts the tax freedoms of the American super-rich elite ahead of their own economic interests.
    Yes, but would the MAGA Republicans vote for someone like Romney any more than REFUK voters would turn out for Sunak?
    Personally think most of them would.

    With # & % of refuseniks being factor in US & UK; and potentially game-changing depending on margin(s).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    darkage said:

    I've been doing a commute recently on certain mornings from Finland to London.
    Leave from a local airport around 5.30 getting to London before 9, with a connecting flight. I can get in to the office at the same time as my colleagues who have no idea how I got to work. The 2 hour time difference helps.

    Everton striker Arnaud Danjuma apparently gets the plane to training each day from his home in Manchester!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    And you think that Ed Davey's got it rough?

    NYT (via Seattle Times) - Did Ron DeSantis shake his wife’s hand?

    In a campaign full of strained social interactions and clumsy pantomimes of warmth, Ron DeSantis’ encounter with his wife at the presidential primary debate in Des Moines on Wednesday night was one of the more curious.

    During the second commercial break, DeSantis, the governor of Florida, strode to the edge of the stage and reached down to shake hands with Republican Gov. Kim Reynolds of Iowa, and her husband. Then, with a businesslike rigor, he grasped the outstretched palm of Casey DeSantis, Florida’s first lady.

    Did he just shake his wife’s hand? Onlookers in the room were bewildered.

    Interactions with spouses on the campaign trail can be fraught, even for the most adept politicians and for the warmest of marriages. To be fair, DeSantis was standing on an elevated stage, on a tight timetable, making an embrace impractical. Too much affection runs its own political risks.

    And who knows? Maybe The Handshake was some sort of inside joke, or an effort to create a signature routine, like Barack and Michelle Obama’s coy fist bump (which was weaponized by Obama’s political foes as a “terrorist fist jab.”)

    Andrew Romeo, a spokesperson for the DeSantis campaign, declined to provide a comment but suggested that the story was unimportant four days out from the Iowa caucuses. . . .

    Somehow, illogically, the chaste encounter brought to mind a polar opposite moment in campaign history: a passionate kiss between Vice President Al Gore and his wife at the time, Tipper, onstage at the Democratic National Convention in 2000. (The Kiss was widely interpreted as an effort by a somewhat rigid candidate to loosen up his public image. It was also a noted contrast to the painful marital developments during Bill Clinton’s second term.) . . .

    SSI - Not RDS fan but reckon I'll give him a pass on this one. As for ED . . .
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,684
    Foxy said:

    Interesting article by Alan Bates on why he couldn't win today, seems outside the paywall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1b11f96d-b96d-4ced-9dee-98c40008b172

    Sadly no, it is inside the paywall
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Foxy said:

    Interesting article by Alan Bates on why he couldn't win today, seems outside the paywall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1b11f96d-b96d-4ced-9dee-98c40008b172

    Paywalled, and even the old 'Google the FT headline' trick no longer seems to work.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,197
    edited January 12

    And you think that Ed Davey's got it rough?

    NYT (via Seattle Times) - Did Ron DeSantis shake his wife’s hand?

    In a campaign full of strained social interactions and clumsy pantomimes of warmth, Ron DeSantis’ encounter with his wife at the presidential primary debate in Des Moines on Wednesday night was one of the more curious.

    During the second commercial break, DeSantis, the governor of Florida, strode to the edge of the stage and reached down to shake hands with Republican Gov. Kim Reynolds of Iowa, and her husband. Then, with a businesslike rigor, he grasped the outstretched palm of Casey DeSantis, Florida’s first lady.

    Did he just shake his wife’s hand? Onlookers in the room were bewildered.

    Interactions with spouses on the campaign trail can be fraught, even for the most adept politicians and for the warmest of marriages. To be fair, DeSantis was standing on an elevated stage, on a tight timetable, making an embrace impractical. Too much affection runs its own political risks.

    And who knows? Maybe The Handshake was some sort of inside joke, or an effort to create a signature routine, like Barack and Michelle Obama’s coy fist bump (which was weaponized by Obama’s political foes as a “terrorist fist jab.”)

    Andrew Romeo, a spokesperson for the DeSantis campaign, declined to provide a comment but suggested that the story was unimportant four days out from the Iowa caucuses. . . .

    Somehow, illogically, the chaste encounter brought to mind a polar opposite moment in campaign history: a passionate kiss between Vice President Al Gore and his wife at the time, Tipper, onstage at the Democratic National Convention in 2000. (The Kiss was widely interpreted as an effort by a somewhat rigid candidate to loosen up his public image. It was also a noted contrast to the painful marital developments during Bill Clinton’s second term.) . . .

    SSI - Not RDS fan but reckon I'll give him a pass on this one. As for ED . . .

    RDS suffers from ED ?

    Nice touch calling his spokesperson Romeo.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127

    Foxy said:

    Interesting article by Alan Bates on why he couldn't win today, seems outside the paywall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1b11f96d-b96d-4ced-9dee-98c40008b172

    Paywalled, and even the old 'Google the FT headline' trick no longer seems to work.
    Try from the FT twitter, that's how I read it:

    https://twitter.com/ftukpolitics/status/1745821127316849030?t=IVuqw3zzU1XNaHnd5h_BEQ&s=19
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting article by Alan Bates on why he couldn't win today, seems outside the paywall.

    https://www.ft.com/content/1b11f96d-b96d-4ced-9dee-98c40008b172

    Paywalled, and even the old 'Google the FT headline' trick no longer seems to work.
    Try from the FT twitter, that's how I read it:

    https://twitter.com/ftukpolitics/status/1745821127316849030?t=IVuqw3zzU1XNaHnd5h_BEQ&s=19
    That works, cheers!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Speaking of cold, it is 21 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 Celsius) on my humble porch right now.

    Coldest its been in these parts (in the lowlands that is) for some time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,831
    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet!

    is it really true the Tory government is employing someone on tax payers money whose job is simply to ensure Fujitsu wins government contracts?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/fujitsu-tax-payer-official-government-contracts-2849729

    To what extent are the Tories exposed to Fujitsu?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/fujitsu-post-office-scandal-building-digital-uk/

    how many members benefit when Fujitsu wins government contracts? Lobbying can probably be the only explanation why the Tories didn’t take the PO victims side against Fujitsu, for the last nine long years? 😟

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/fujitsu-s-head-lobbyist-during-post-office-scandal-set-up-tory-mps-pressure-group/ar-AA1mLcKp

    Has Marquee Mark resigned yet. For throwing stones in glass houses… you are GUILTY you must admit?
    When he finally resigns, I am going to be vindicated as a great seer of political events....
    If he finally resigns you will be vindicated as the great Stirrer of Sh*t which we always thought you were.
    Pathetic.

    This is a political betting site. And it looks like I have been wise in predicting his demise, unlike the sentimental twerps who think he has done nothing to trouble his career....
    I don't know whether he's done anything wrong or not, but I don't think he's going to resign.

    I'll offer you 3-1 on him going before the election if you like.
    I agree. I'm told he's in good spirits and coping well with the pressure. Not going to resign.
    Not being thrown into the chokey for something you didn't do will do that for a man.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Speaking of cold, it is 21 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 Celsius) on my humble porch right now.

    Coldest its been in these parts (in the lowlands that is) for some time.

    It is forecast to be 0F at arrowhead Sunday. Poor Tua, he grew up with 18C January lows in Honolulu !
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pulpstar said:

    Speaking of cold, it is 21 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 Celsius) on my humble porch right now.

    Coldest its been in these parts (in the lowlands that is) for some time.

    It is forecast to be 0F at arrowhead Sunday. Poor Tua, he grew up with 18C January lows in Honolulu !
    True. However, head up to Mauna Kea and it's possible to get frostbite any month of the year.

    But doubt there's a football field up there. Ditto badminton court.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    Has Ed Davey resigned yet?
This discussion has been closed.