Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

#NU10K – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited January 14 in General
image#NU10K – politicalbetting.com

“In order to save space the word esquire has not been added to any name, though of course such should be added in every ease when no inconsistent addition is affixed.” – Kelly’s Handbook to the Upper Ten Thousand, 1875

Read the full story here

«13456711

Comments

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,192
    We can't vote them out. How do we get rid?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,192
    Apologies for going O/T so quickly but for those who questioned the security aspects of exploiting the North Sea to its maximum: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67947795
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    edited January 12

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    I agree, and citing "Common Cause" in the header has a whiff of conspiracy theory and populism to it.

    What evidence does the writer have that any of his "NU10k" have had any training by Common Cause?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    Sometimes the opposite is true. Sharon Shoesmith thrown to the wolves by Ed Balls as a diversionary tactic to protect the political class.

    Paula Vennells has the look of a human shield to protect the political classes from nearly 30 years of political ineptitude and disinterest.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Foxy said:

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    I agree, and citing "Common Cause" in the header has a whiff of conspiracy theory and populism to it.

    What evidence does the writer have that any of his "NU10k" have had any training by Common Cause?
    It’s common purpose, isn’t it?

    https://commonpurpose.org/what-we-do

    I have no idea about any connection between that organisation and NU10k, but the blurb on their website is remarkably similar to the bollocks spouted in the civil service.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,192
    Foxy said:

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    I agree, and citing "Common Cause" in the header has a whiff of conspiracy theory and populism to it.

    What evidence does the writer have that any of his "NU10k" have had any training by Common Cause?
    I agree that any conspiracy is far fetched and fanciful. It is more a case of people like us looking after people like us.

    In principle, people should be able to make mistakes and start again. If that were not so we would end up with almost no decisions made at all. But the reluctance to accept that gross mismanagement requires gross consequences for the individual is very marked in much of our society and not just in the public sector either.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117
    edited January 12
    Extend Freedom of Information access to the decision-making processes these people are involved in. Restrict or abolish the lazy exemption on the grounds of "chilling" discussion. Except in special cases, why should decision makers in public roles be afraid of their discussions becoming known to the public?

    Open up the appointment process to more parliamentary and public scrutiny. If people are applying for extremely highly paid public roles, they must expect to have to sacrifice their privacy to some extent, just as many other people in the public eye have to.

    Strengthen criminal sanctions again conspiracies to conceal wrongdoing in public bodies.

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    edited January 12
    There is nothing new under the sun.

    Consider the Old Testament in overview. It is a varied volume of work, but in large part consists of prophets bewailing the corruption, greed, veniality and self interest of the elites, counterpointed by history of those elites. Take David for example, a peasant boy who becomes king, but then falls foul of God once in power after establishing Jerusalem as his capital.

    It has always been easier to be a prophet lobbing brickbats at the powers that be than to actually get one's hands dirty and try to administer change in the real world. See also Corbyn vs Blair.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Off topic, BBC South Today have just reported dog bites injury admissions at Southampton hospital doubling from 2019 pre-Covid (111 dog bites) to end of 2022 (236 dog bites).

    The reason cited: a big increase in dog ownership during Covid and irresponsible owners.

    Why do we have to put up with this?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    The syphilis of Woke is entering its tertiary stage where it starts killing businesses, or people

    TwiX is right now engulfed in debate at to how much Wokeness has contributed to the fall of Boeing. Turns out Boeing is extremely Woke and might have neglected - might - important safety aspects in pursuit of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)

    Hard to say if the allegation is entirely accurate. There is certainly some evidence
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
  • Options
    Lovely piece,Malmes.

    I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    Which is what Woke people always say. We’ve been over this, doc. Next patient, please
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    edited January 12
    Other examples:

    Amanda Spielman. Crashed and burned at OFQUAL, overseeing catastrophic changes to exams to somehow make them worse, went to OFSTED where on her own admission things were so bad it ended completely discredited.

    Susan Acland-Hood - chief executive of Courts and Probation, where she oversaw the collapse of the probation service. Then to education where between boozy parties, bungled lockdown regulations, the impending scandal at Oak National Academy, the errors over school budgets and schools literally falling down around us she has wrecked what was left of the school system too.

    Sam Freedman - oversaw the academies programme, went to Teach First when that had to be paused due to innumerable scandals, lasted less than two years there (even less long than Rory Gribbell) and now lectures on public policy at the IfG telling other people how to get it right.

    Dominic Cummings - a finger in all these pies, where he earned a reputation for mindless arrogance and total incompetence, ran one of the Brexit campaigns and then made chief of staff at No. 10 where following the catastrophic decision to scrap May's deal and sign one much more favourable to the EU he oversaw the early stages of Covid including the disastrous drinking culture inside government.

    And that's just education, and without even thinking hard.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ...
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    Don't worry. Leon's next post is even madder if you can be arsed to read past "the syphillis of Woke"
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    War with Iran (with what strategic objective?) means the Madiq Hormuz is closed means instant global depression. So, no, outwith some act of unsurpassed egregiousness by the Iranian state there isn't going to be war with Iran.

    It's notable that the US have expressed their displeasure by blowing up Yemeni Hi-Luces rather an amphibious assault on Bushehr.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,842
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    We are too busy cursing Useless and his grifters to worry about English grifters
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,970
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,090
    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Dominic Cummings is woke now?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,090

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    Don't worry. Leon's next post is even madder if you can be arsed to read past "the syphillis of Woke"
    To be fair to Leon and his syphilis comment, they do say you should write from personal experience.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    edited January 12

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    UK economy grew by 0.3% in November.
  • Options
    JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 651

    .......I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.

    One of the less generous depictions of the present government ... but then ....
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    JACK_W said:

    .......I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.

    One of the less generous depictions of the present government ... but then ....
    Greetings Jack! Glad to see you back. Keeping well in your castle?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest wasn't she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    I think actually she was never actually a parish priest, rather she was an associate priest within a parish. In ranking terms she was more like a lay reader.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest wasn't she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Or maybe not

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67923190
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    JACK_W said:

    .......I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.

    One of the less generous depictions of the present government ... but then ....
    Especially ungenerous to turds.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest wasn't she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Or maybe not

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67923190
    But not appointed. Oddly, many men used to be appointed bishops with no parish experience, e.g. Geoffrey Fisher had been a teacher, but now some sanity seems to have prevailed.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    War with Iran (with what strategic objective?) means the Madiq Hormuz is closed means instant global depression. So, no, outwith some act of unsurpassed egregiousness by the Iranian state there isn't going to be war with Iran.

    It's notable that the US have expressed their displeasure by blowing up Yemeni Hi-Luces rather an amphibious assault on Bushehr.
    Im more surprised the Egyptians havent done something about this. Suez Canal revenues are down 40% and thats one of their biggest earners.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,234

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,970
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Narrowly missed out on becoming the Bish of London (candidacy supported by Justin Welby) I understand.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,234

    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    War with Iran (with what strategic objective?) means the Madiq Hormuz is closed means instant global depression. So, no, outwith some act of unsurpassed egregiousness by the Iranian state there isn't going to be war with Iran.

    It's notable that the US have expressed their displeasure by blowing up Yemeni Hi-Luces rather an amphibious assault on Bushehr.
    Im more surprised the Egyptians havent done something about this. Suez Canal revenues are down 40% and thats one of their biggest earners.
    Maybe the first thing they would do is privately ask the Americans to put a stop to it?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Ah "progressive" . but does anyone know what they are progressing to ?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
  • Options
    JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 651
    ydoethur said:

    JACK_W said:

    .......I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.

    One of the less generous depictions of the present government ... but then ....
    Especially ungenerous to turds.
    Indeed so. The epic flushing comes at the general election, although one wonders which river this untreated sewage will grace?
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,234
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    The syphilis of Woke is entering its tertiary stage where it starts killing businesses, or people

    TwiX is right now engulfed in debate at to how much Wokeness has contributed to the fall of Boeing. Turns out Boeing is extremely Woke and might have neglected - might - important safety aspects in pursuit of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)

    Hard to say if the allegation is entirely accurate. There is certainly some evidence
    Please share the evidence, it sounds interesting.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    kamski said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    War with Iran (with what strategic objective?) means the Madiq Hormuz is closed means instant global depression. So, no, outwith some act of unsurpassed egregiousness by the Iranian state there isn't going to be war with Iran.

    It's notable that the US have expressed their displeasure by blowing up Yemeni Hi-Luces rather an amphibious assault on Bushehr.
    Im more surprised the Egyptians havent done something about this. Suez Canal revenues are down 40% and thats one of their biggest earners.
    Maybe the first thing they would do is privately ask the Americans to put a stop to it?
    Perhaps but what does the US get in return ? Egypt has a poor track record in Yemen thanks to Nasser so maybe they need someone to do their dirty work for them. But they'd be safer cutting a deal with Iran.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Narrowly missed out on becoming the Bish of London (candidacy supported by Justin Welby) I understand.
    So the discernment process filtered her out.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Great piece @Malmesbury
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest wasn't she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Or maybe not

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67923190
    But not appointed. Oddly, many men used to be appointed bishops with no parish experience, e.g. Geoffrey Fisher had been a teacher, but now some sanity seems to have prevailed.
    Not appointed, but why on earth was she even considered ?
  • Options
    JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 651
    Foxy said:

    JACK_W said:

    .......I particularly liked 'unflushed turds', even at this time of the morning.

    One of the less generous depictions of the present government ... but then ....
    Greetings Jack! Glad to see you back. Keeping well in your castle?
    Doing ones best to repel the yellow peril always improves the medical condition, especially is aided by excessive consumption of fine pies and single malt .... :smile:
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,234

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    It's really not.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Narrowly missed out on becoming the Bish of London (candidacy supported by Justin Welby) I understand.
    So the discernment process filtered her out.
    If its that simple Im going to nominate @Leon for bishop of Leicester. At some point the discernment process will fail.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    It's really not.
    It really is
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    You don’t know much about business, do you?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    The syphilis of Woke is entering its tertiary stage where it starts killing businesses, or people

    TwiX is right now engulfed in debate at to how much Wokeness has contributed to the fall of Boeing. Turns out Boeing is extremely Woke and might have neglected - might - important safety aspects in pursuit of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)

    Hard to say if the allegation is entirely accurate. There is certainly some evidence
    Please share the evidence, it sounds interesting.
    The root of Boeings problems are in the replacement of engineering by management driven only to maximise short term profit. That isn't Woke by any definition.

    Leon is just at the "Old man shouts at Cloud" phase of his life, though to be fair there is a lucrative journalist market for such tosh.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    I am faced with unremitting squalor
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Narrowly missed out on becoming the Bish of London (candidacy supported by Justin Welby) I understand.
    So the discernment process filtered her out.
    If its that simple Im going to nominate @Leon for bishop of Leicester. At some point the discernment process will fail.
    Doesn't bother me, I am a Non-Conformist!
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ydoethur said:

    Other examples:

    Amanda Spielman. Crashed and burned at OFQUAL, overseeing catastrophic changes to exams to somehow make them worse, went to OFSTED where on her own admission things were so bad it ended completely discredited.

    Susan Acland-Hood - chief executive of Courts and Probation, where she oversaw the collapse of the probation service. Then to education where between boozy parties, bungled lockdown regulations, the impending scandal at Oak National Academy, the errors over school budgets and schools literally falling down around us she has wrecked what was left of the school system too.

    Sam Freedman - oversaw the academies programme, went to Teach First when that had to be paused due to innumerable scandals, lasted less than two years there (even less long than Rory Gribbell) and now lectures on public policy at the IfG telling other people how to get it right.

    Dominic Cummings - a finger in all these pies, where he earned a reputation for mindless arrogance and total incompetence, ran one of the Brexit campaigns and then made chief of staff at No. 10 where following the catastrophic decision to scrap May's deal and sign one much more favourable to the EU he oversaw the early stages of Covid including the disastrous drinking culture inside government.

    And that's just education, and without even thinking hard.

    But it's the politicians who appointed these no marks.

    I was pondering Starmer's tooth brushing intervention and my first impression was the banal absurdity of supervised oral hygiene for children in schools. Then I read that dental interventions are the main driver for child hospital admissions in the UK.

    I cast my mind back to the dreaded moment when a cheery young dentist would tow the Worcestershire CC dental caravan into the school car park for a week of fillings and milk teeth extractions. Imagine the long term saving to the NHS for two salaries and a mobile dental surgery in each education authority.

    We had so much as children in the 1970s and then someone in Government decided we couldn't afford this and we couldn't afford that (making no consideration for the costs down the line). The nanny state in the context of children may have been Communism, but sometimes it worked.

    It wasn't the NU10K that broke our nation, and if they did,it was at the behest of their political masters.

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    Bloody hell, that was some leap!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Apparently she got on the final shortlist for the bishop of London - third most senior position in that evil empire. Possibly only rumours of the incoming scandal kept her off that position.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Narrowly missed out on becoming the Bish of London (candidacy supported by Justin Welby) I understand.
    So the discernment process filtered her out.
    If its that simple Im going to nominate @Leon for bishop of Leicester. At some point the discernment process will fail.
    Doesn't bother me, I am a Non-Conformist!
    LOL, if anything youre an ultra conformist. England claims it advances diversity but really it is the most stifling conformist society I've Iived in - and that includes Germany !
  • Options
    Agree 100% with this excellent article and its conclusion. Perhaps this appointment for the former non-exec chairman of Fujitsu (and Tory party donor according to the Mirror) neatly links with this week’s big story:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/simon-blagden-cbe-confirmed-as-new-chair-of-building-digital-uk
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited January 12
    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Pick all the empty bottles and fag ends off the floor and put a towel over the vomit, and it’ll look much better.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,970

    ydoethur said:

    Other examples:

    Amanda Spielman. Crashed and burned at OFQUAL, overseeing catastrophic changes to exams to somehow make them worse, went to OFSTED where on her own admission things were so bad it ended completely discredited.

    Susan Acland-Hood - chief executive of Courts and Probation, where she oversaw the collapse of the probation service. Then to education where between boozy parties, bungled lockdown regulations, the impending scandal at Oak National Academy, the errors over school budgets and schools literally falling down around us she has wrecked what was left of the school system too.

    Sam Freedman - oversaw the academies programme, went to Teach First when that had to be paused due to innumerable scandals, lasted less than two years there (even less long than Rory Gribbell) and now lectures on public policy at the IfG telling other people how to get it right.

    Dominic Cummings - a finger in all these pies, where he earned a reputation for mindless arrogance and total incompetence, ran one of the Brexit campaigns and then made chief of staff at No. 10 where following the catastrophic decision to scrap May's deal and sign one much more favourable to the EU he oversaw the early stages of Covid including the disastrous drinking culture inside government.

    And that's just education, and without even thinking hard.

    But it's the politicians who appointed these no marks.

    I was pondering Starmer's tooth brushing intervention and my first impression was the banal absurdity of supervised oral hygiene for children in schools. Then I read that dental interventions are the main driver for child hospital admissions in the UK.

    I cast my mind back to the dreaded moment when a cheery young dentist would tow the Worcestershire CC dental caravan into the school car park for a week of fillings and milk teeth extractions. Imagine the long term saving to the NHS for two salaries and a mobile dental surgery in each education authority.

    We had so much as children in the 1970s and then someone in Government decided we couldn't afford this and we couldn't afford that (making no consideration for the costs down the line). The nanny state in the context of children may have been Communism, but sometimes it worked.

    It wasn't the NU10K that broke our nation, and if they did,it was at the behest of their political masters.

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    Bloody hell, that was some leap!
    Thank you! Spotting connections that might not have occurred to others is what I’m here for.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    The bastards at the Gazette have put me in Raffles






    I know a lot of PBers will be worried about me, but I’m determined to cope. The wifi seems ok so I can at least maintain some kind of rudimentary communication
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Can't you bung the Thai call girls an extra ten bucks to clean your room before they leave?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Pick all the empty bottles and fag ends off the floor and put a towel over the vomit, and it’ll look much better.
    I’ve done my best


  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    Honestly, we need another Robespierre to send a few hundred of the Nu10K to the National Razor.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Quietly, sadly, Scotland is going into a major recession. There is the Grangemouth disaster. Last week there was the collapse of one of our largest housebuilders, Stewart Milne group. This week we have the collapse of the delivery firm Menzies. We have retail screaming about the consequences of the Scottish budget where, unlike the rest of the UK, retail premises rates are up 6.7% despite huge numbers of empty shops. Higher taxes drive higher earners away.

    We have been growing somewhat slower than the rest of the UK for some time but we seem to have reached a tipping point where firms that were just holding on have fallen over, possibly as a consequence of higher interest rates. Our industrial base, never strong in recent times, is fading whilst our public sector continues to grow. The consequences of economic mismanagement on an epic scale are being brought home to us. It is a very sad state of affairs that is not getting nearly enough attention.

    Yes, there are signs of it. But the alternative to save the economy is not to vote Tory. They have trashed the UK economy, and the SNP have said "hold my beer" as they try to make things even worse.

    Putting it bluntly, everyone is broke. Individuals & businesses - insane levels of debt post Covid are now rendering many to ruin.

    The route through this is to invest...
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,706
    DavidL said:

    We can't vote them out. How do we get rid?

    VAT on private schools and wait a generation.....
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    DavidL said:

    Quietly, sadly, Scotland is going into a major recession. There is the Grangemouth disaster. Last week there was the collapse of one of our largest housebuilders, Stewart Milne group. This week we have the collapse of the delivery firm Menzies. We have retail screaming about the consequences of the Scottish budget where, unlike the rest of the UK, retail premises rates are up 6.7% despite huge numbers of empty shops. Higher taxes drive higher earners away.

    We have been growing somewhat slower than the rest of the UK for some time but we seem to have reached a tipping point where firms that were just holding on have fallen over, possibly as a consequence of higher interest rates. Our industrial base, never strong in recent times, is fading whilst our public sector continues to grow. The consequences of economic mismanagement on an epic scale are being brought home to us. It is a very sad state of affairs that is not getting nearly enough attention.

    Yes, there are signs of it. But the alternative to save the economy is not to vote Tory. They have trashed the UK economy, and the SNP have said "hold my beer" as they try to make things even worse.

    Putting it bluntly, everyone is broke. Individuals & businesses - insane levels of debt post Covid are now rendering many to ruin.

    The route through this is to invest...
    Hmmm

    Gordon Browns investment formula was to take current spending and call it "investment". Reeves will do the same.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,409

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    We all like and trust People Like Us.

    When Paula Vennells was considered for, didn't get the Bishop of London gig (boy, that was a bullet dodged), it went to Sarah Mullally, who had also into a big X in another field (Chief Nursing Officer for England in her case). Under Archbishop Oilwellby who famously rose very quickly through the ranks of the church after another career.

    See also the various PLU governments of Thatcher (self made men with a tendency to worship their creators), Shiny Happy Blairites, or the government-Telegraph group nexus of the Johnson years.

    It's infuriating if your not in the in group (doubly so if you used to be and aren't any more), and almost certainly bad to select from such a narrow gene pool. But not easy to fix. (I think the only solution is to disperse active power, so that there are more, but less big, big jobs).
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Did you write this?


  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    It's really not.
    It really is.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    We all like and trust People Like Us.

    When Paula Vennells was considered for, didn't get the Bishop of London gig (boy, that was a bullet dodged), it went to Sarah Mullally, who had also into a big X in another field (Chief Nursing Officer for England in her case). Under Archbishop Oilwellby who famously rose very quickly through the ranks of the church after another career.

    See also the various PLU governments of Thatcher (self made men with a tendency to worship their creators), Shiny Happy Blairites, or the government-Telegraph group nexus of the Johnson years.

    It's infuriating if your not in the in group (doubly so if you used to be and aren't any more), and almost certainly bad to select from such a narrow gene pool. But not easy to fix. (I think the only solution is to disperse active power, so that there are more, but less big, big jobs).
    The C of E could always try something novel and get bishops who actually believe in God.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    IanB2 said:

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    Yes, it’s a systemic issue rather than some broad bunch of Freemasons loosely organised in some way and all looking after each other. Take executive pay. The execs in one company are non-execs at others, all sitting on each other’s remuneration committees, and companies ‘benchmark’ their senior pay with each other. So there’s no-one who doesn’t have at least an indirect incentive to see senior pay and bonuses forever pushed upwards; although some of the payments are eye-watering in individual terms, against the turnover of the company they’re lost in the roundings. Every remuneration policy you see has the mantra “we pay upper quartile pay for upper quartile performance”; with everyone aiming for upper quartile, it’s obvious where it goes. The US shows the way and we aren’t too far behind.

    And of course, in the round, we don’t get upper quartile performance; it’s the same bunch of people, just being paid more. Just as if we paid a £million as MPs salary, we wouldn’t get better MPs. The explosion in top pay even spreads into the charity sector, where the top people in organisations like Amnesty earn absurd amounts.

    The challenge ought to be a flood of people coming up behind competing for these highly paid positions, bringing the market rate down. And it’s true that universities churn out far more business studies, marketing and accounting graduates than they used to. But, as with much of the ‘bread and bricks economy’, competition through supply and demand seems not to be working as a restraint on prices. Western economies nowadays looks increasingly more oligarchic than competitive.
    I agree with most of that, except I do think MPs pay is too low to attract real talent at all levels and reflect the personal risk, the long hours, and the endless scrutiny.

    I'd say it should be £150k basic (plus allowances and expenses) with cabinet minister salaries in the FTSE250 executive category.

    Otherwise we'll forever get Spads and researchers doing it, and maybe some ex-journalists, and no-one else.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    I’ve seen a lot of hotel pools but these are MAGNIFICENT

    They bring you a special wooden tray of elixirs and unguents, including Raffles-own “White Turmeric and Ylang Ylang Body Cream” and “Khmer Flowers with Frangipani Moisturising Mist”


  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,887

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
    To Anti-Wokeismists, considering a minority of your clients/customer is the definition of Wokeism.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    ...

    DavidL said:

    Quietly, sadly, Scotland is going into a major recession. There is the Grangemouth disaster. Last week there was the collapse of one of our largest housebuilders, Stewart Milne group. This week we have the collapse of the delivery firm Menzies. We have retail screaming about the consequences of the Scottish budget where, unlike the rest of the UK, retail premises rates are up 6.7% despite huge numbers of empty shops. Higher taxes drive higher earners away.

    We have been growing somewhat slower than the rest of the UK for some time but we seem to have reached a tipping point where firms that were just holding on have fallen over, possibly as a consequence of higher interest rates. Our industrial base, never strong in recent times, is fading whilst our public sector continues to grow. The consequences of economic mismanagement on an epic scale are being brought home to us. It is a very sad state of affairs that is not getting nearly enough attention.

    Yes, there are signs of it. But the alternative to save the economy is not to vote Tory. They have trashed the UK economy, and the SNP have said "hold my beer" as they try to make things even worse.

    Putting it bluntly, everyone is broke. Individuals & businesses - insane levels of debt post Covid are now rendering many to ruin.

    The route through this is to invest...
    Hmmm

    Gordon Browns investment formula was to take current spending and call it "investment". Reeves will do the same.
    Cancelling ongoing and advanced public infrastructure projects on the other hand to fix potholes in Croydon...
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    Its commentary like this that makes PB essential reading for anyone interested in British politics
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,409

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    We all like and trust People Like Us.

    When Paula Vennells was considered for, didn't get the Bishop of London gig (boy, that was a bullet dodged), it went to Sarah Mullally, who had also into a big X in another field (Chief Nursing Officer for England in her case). Under Archbishop Oilwellby who famously rose very quickly through the ranks of the church after another career.

    See also the various PLU governments of Thatcher (self made men with a tendency to worship their creators), Shiny Happy Blairites, or the government-Telegraph group nexus of the Johnson years.

    It's infuriating if your not in the in group (doubly so if you used to be and aren't any more), and almost certainly bad to select from such a narrow gene pool. But not easy to fix. (I think the only solution is to disperse active power, so that there are more, but less big, big jobs).
    The C of E could always try something novel and get bishops who actually believe in God.
    Is there evidence that they don't? Lines from the Yes, Prime Minister episode about the bishop don't count.

    There's lots of indications (the Bible is full of them) that belief in God isn't, by itself, enough to stop people acting appallingly. Indeed, it can give people a reason to behave even worse. (See also: the many sins of the C of E as an employer.)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,842
    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Where in London are you
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Where in London are you
    I’m in the posh bit of Phnom Penh, Cambodia
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
    You've misread my post.

    They want to lay on this, and only this, for everyone.

    100% of people.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,842

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    Yes, it’s a systemic issue rather than some broad bunch of Freemasons loosely organised in some way and all looking after each other. Take executive pay. The execs in one company are non-execs at others, all sitting on each other’s remuneration committees, and companies ‘benchmark’ their senior pay with each other. So there’s no-one who doesn’t have at least an indirect incentive to see senior pay and bonuses forever pushed upwards; although some of the payments are eye-watering in individual terms, against the turnover of the company they’re lost in the roundings. Every remuneration policy you see has the mantra “we pay upper quartile pay for upper quartile performance”; with everyone aiming for upper quartile, it’s obvious where it goes. The US shows the way and we aren’t too far behind.

    And of course, in the round, we don’t get upper quartile performance; it’s the same bunch of people, just being paid more. Just as if we paid a £million as MPs salary, we wouldn’t get better MPs. The explosion in top pay even spreads into the charity sector, where the top people in organisations like Amnesty earn absurd amounts.

    The challenge ought to be a flood of people coming up behind competing for these highly paid positions, bringing the market rate down. And it’s true that universities churn out far more business studies, marketing and accounting graduates than they used to. But, as with much of the ‘bread and bricks economy’, competition through supply and demand seems not to be working as a restraint on prices. Western economies nowadays looks increasingly more oligarchic than competitive.
    I agree with most of that, except I do think MPs pay is too low to attract real talent at all levels and reflect the personal risk, the long hours, and the endless scrutiny.

    I'd say it should be £150k basic (plus allowances and expenses) with cabinet minister salaries in the FTSE250 executive category.

    Otherwise we'll forever get Spads and researchers doing it, and maybe some ex-journalists, and no-one else.
    LOL, long hours , only in the bars and restaurants or other less salubrious places ( on the odd occasions they are not on holidays ) and personal risk my arse.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    The syphilis of Woke is entering its tertiary stage where it starts killing businesses, or people

    TwiX is right now engulfed in debate at to how much Wokeness has contributed to the fall of Boeing. Turns out Boeing is extremely Woke and might have neglected - might - important safety aspects in pursuit of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)

    Hard to say if the allegation is entirely accurate. There is certainly some evidence
    Please share the evidence, it sounds interesting.
    The root of Boeings problems are in the replacement of engineering by management driven only to maximise short term profit. That isn't Woke by any definition.

    Leon is just at the "Old man shouts at Cloud" phase of his life, though to be fair there is a lucrative journalist market for such tosh.
    Yes, the Boeing problems stem from the merger with McDonnell-Douglas in 1997, which led to a change of culture in the company from being engineer-led in Seattle to being MBA-led in DC.

    Funnily enough, over time this change of culture has increasingly led to engineering problems with the products. Things like exploding batteries, non-redundant flight control systems, and now plug doors that weren’t fitted properly.

    Their regulator, the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration), has also been caught sleeping, and let these engineering failures get past them, in some cases with fatal results.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Apparently she got on the final shortlist for the bishop of London - third most senior position in that evil empire. Possibly only rumours of the incoming scandal kept her off that position.
    Saying something unpopular here: in that role, or her one as vicar, she's probably fine. And maybe even quite a nice generous person. Because these issues wouldn't arise.

    I suspect she's somewhat susceptible to institution capture and she was completely different in the Post Office and primarily (only) interested in defending its corporate interests and blinded by confirmation bias and selective presentation of evidence.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
    You've misread my post.

    They want to lay on this, and only this, for everyone.

    100% of people.
    Which aptly epitomises one of the key problems with Wokeness. If it was genuinely and exclusively aimed at helping a few, who have suffered discrimination, then it would not be contentious

    Instead it has become a strangling and expansive creed which ALL must adhere to and all most publicly pay obeisance to, and any deviation from the faith can be career ending
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    edited January 12
    Sean_F said:

    Honestly, we need another Robespierre to send a few hundred of the Nu10K to the National Razor.

    This is the fundamental problem. All criticism and no solution.

    How else are we to choose the leadership of public and private sector bodies than amongst people who have succeeded at smaller roles? That is after all how Vennells was appointed, and was successful at previous posts.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,994
    Right. Let’s try swimming

    I am debuting my new swimming pool proof earphones, as recommended on here by @rcs1000, so I can listen to Michael Wood’s History of China as I do my laps

    🙏🥂
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Apparently she got on the final shortlist for the bishop of London - third most senior position in that evil empire. Possibly only rumours of the incoming scandal kept her off that position.
    Saying something unpopular here: in that role, or her one as vicar, she's probably fine. And maybe even quite a nice generous person. Because these issues wouldn't arise.

    I suspect she's somewhat susceptible to institution capture and she was completely different in the Post Office and primarily (only) interested in defending its corporate interests and blinded by confirmation bias and selective presentation of evidence.
    Previous experience was all private sector wasn't it?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    Off topic

    The BBC join the Tory client media Starmer smear club

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67952479.amp

    Although they do have a point.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,359
    DavidL said:

    We can't vote them out. How do we get rid?

    I believe Common Purpose 'graduates' are some of the worst. Apparently alumni are termed graduates because if they were 'members' they'd be asked to disclose membership. Any involvement with the group would be a significant demerit in a recruitment process if I ran such things - which of course I don't, so it is rather a guarantee that another graduate will promote you.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Did you write this?


    Apparently you need a 200Ah fucking truck battery to start a Wolseley 15/60.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Both terms are just meaningless terms of abuse
    I've never heard anyone say 'the Church of England' as a term of abuse, not even in Wales. Is it a thing in Scotland, perhaps?
    That someone as apparently morally bankrupt as Paula Vennells rose so far in the C of E should be a cause for reflection. cf. The Catholic Church colluding in the rape of children.
    In clerical terms she was never more than a parish priest was she?

    She had some management roles, particularly reviewing investment portfolios etc, but just a few years back was being hailed for her management expertise, for example being awarded a CBE and being brought into the Cabinet Office after leaving the Post Office.
    Apparently she got on the final shortlist for the bishop of London - third most senior position in that evil empire. Possibly only rumours of the incoming scandal kept her off that position.
    Saying something unpopular here: in that role, or her one as vicar, she's probably fine. And maybe even quite a nice generous person. Because these issues wouldn't arise.

    I suspect she's somewhat susceptible to institution capture and she was completely different in the Post Office and primarily (only) interested in defending its corporate interests and blinded by confirmation bias and selective presentation of evidence.
    She's been involved with a controversial review church property:

    https://twitter.com/WalkerMarcus/status/1745132035675472017
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,909

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
    What about people who would like to have a steak ?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,124
    Leon said:

    Its commentary like this that makes PB essential reading for anyone interested in British politics

    .. and for those just looking for executive travel tips.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    The syphilis of Woke is entering its tertiary stage where it starts killing businesses, or people

    TwiX is right now engulfed in debate at to how much Wokeness has contributed to the fall of Boeing. Turns out Boeing is extremely Woke and might have neglected - might - important safety aspects in pursuit of DEI (diversity, equity, inclusion)

    Hard to say if the allegation is entirely accurate. There is certainly some evidence
    Please share the evidence, it sounds interesting.
    The root of Boeings problems are in the replacement of engineering by management driven only to maximise short term profit. That isn't Woke by any definition.

    Leon is just at the "Old man shouts at Cloud" phase of his life, though to be fair there is a lucrative journalist market for such tosh.
    Yes, the Boeing problems stem from the merger with McDonnell-Douglas in 1997, which led to a change of culture in the company from being engineer-led in Seattle to being MBA-led in DC.

    McAir were a very engineering driven company who just about bankrupted themselves doing the C-17. You probably need spreadsheet wankers who know about money and shit running a company.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,005
    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    I guess it is the traditional time of year for some serious self examination.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    I am faced with unremitting squalor

    Is the floor of the Elephant Bar, covered in elephant sh!t?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,706
    Pulpstar said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    They also keep banging on about vegan food - I'm not joking.

    I'm on a major committee for an organisation and they keep going on about it to demonstrate their commitment to climate change. So it's about only laying this on at their events and meetings. Because it's "progressive".

    I struggle to challenge this in a calm way - it's very unpopular, and their members have said so - and, of course, you can end up looking like the difficult one / bogeyman even though you know many secretly agree.
    Hmmm. You're on 'a major committee for an organisation', and you are literally the only person I know (whether online or in real life) who keeps 'banging on about vegan food' - are you trying to tell us you are a member of NU10K?
    Er, no. It's other committee members who raise it.

    I respond to it.

    This is like: "you're the only one who's had problems with Horizon."
    There's another angle to this. Between 2 and 3% of the UK are vegan. Another 6% are vegetarian. Another 6% are pescetarian. (1)

    That is a significant minority of the population. The chances are the organisation you represent has people who are vegan, vegetarian or pescetarian. Are you doing your duty to your members if you do not provide food that they can eat?

    I'm not a vegetarian, but I'm perfectly happy to cook - and eat - veggie, or even vegan, food. What have you got against it?

    (1): https://www.finder.com/uk/uk-diet-trends
    What about people who would like to have a steak ?
    They are increasingly rare to find, but well done for pointing that out through this medium.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,474

    On topic, I'm not sure it's that simple. Get rid of them all and you'd just get another lot. Someone has to run all these businesses and organisations.

    It's the groupthink, lack of accountability and integrity that's the issue and I think that's more of a structural and values problem.

    Changing the culture would of necessity also require getting rid of many of the current executives and leaders.
    Agreed that wouldn't if itself be sufficient.

    It would be a huge task, as would need reform in both individual organisations, and across society. And determined (and capable) reformers are quite rare.

    @rcs1000 's belief in small iterative improvements is one approach - though in this context, how might that apply ?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    The observation is exact. I’m coming round to the neologism

    You have skipped an important point: their religious faith. The old Upper Ten Thousand had to be observant Church of England, at least ostensibly, with perhaps a few token Jews and Catholics

    The NU10K have to be Woke; that is their belief system, which similarly binds them together

    Did you write this?


    Apparently you need a 200Ah fucking truck battery to start a Wolseley 15/60.
    But it never lets you down on a frosty morning....
This discussion has been closed.