US inflation falling like a stone doesn't seem to have helped him - so it probably won't here. The "cost of living crisis" as a phrase will outlive inflation.
(Theory: the public understand that falling inflation doesn't mean prices are falling well enough - middle class condescension notwithstanding.)
Images like this will destroy Biden’s campaign
“BREAKING: Video from a contact on the ground in Eagle Pass, TX right now shows a mass of thousands of migrants waiting to be processed by Border Patrol after they crossed illegally today. I’ve spent hundreds of days there over the last 2+ years and I’ve never seen it like this.”
They would rather Trump wins than have any form of border control.
Immigration is possibly going to be THE issue across the west for the next few years
It certainly will if you have anything to do with it.
Yes, I’m personally driving UK net migration to 1.3m every two years, that’s when I’m not burning down asylum centres in Ireland, bulldozing ethnic ghettoes in Denmark, getting the far right elected in Sweden and forcing 10,000 people to try and break into America every day. I call it multitasking
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
My read of it was simply that they don't think either the UK or Europe iare in a particularly good state whatever choices are made.
There is a pervasive mood of pessimism although I note that the traditional Santa rally has been particularly strong this year.
I think that both the UK and much of the EU is suffering from debt exhaustion. We have debt piled up everywhere, whether in the public sector or in businesses and, as interest rates become higher in real terms, this is a drag on future growth. We have been living on our seed corn for too long and people are wondering where the next harvest is going to come from.
To some extent we need this period of high interest rates to concentrate minds in government and business to cut back spending and to eliminate zombie companies that hold the economy back and replace them with new more dynamic ones. Take supermarkets as an example, the lower debt companies like Sainsbury's, Tesco and the German discounters have been destroying Asda and Morrisons lately and those two losing share has been a net positive for the nation as it's forced their owners to reconsider the current strategy of holding so much debt and now they're having to pump billions of equity in to compete and stop losing market share.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
The expectation is that there is going to be a small fall to 4.4 or 4.3%, nothing like last month. Although petrol prices are coming down there seem a lot of things going up and the planned increase in the minimum wage will have a lot of employers looking to squeeze a bit more in price increases.
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Partly that, for a while I thought I was NHS when I was private because check-ups were cheap.
Fatalism too, perhaps, on the part of those without dental care. And ignorance at the top. I don't suppose top civil servants or MPs are personally affected. Even on PB one or two posters have despaired of finding affordable dentistry but most of us read it and moved on.
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Could be. So moving two steps from the original and cherished vision of the NHS (first make it cost quite a bit, second, render it unavailable) is less politically damaging than only moving one step. Nice case of the slowly boiling frog.
BTW social care, delays now decades old, is showing the same symptoms - moans but its not red hot. Labour never mention it...
My sister's a dentist. Thankless job, physically demanding, moderately paid unless you own your own string of surgeries. She is still largely NHS despite all the financial incentives for her and the practice being to focus on private. Does a bit of injecting toxins into people's lips and foreheads on the side.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
The expectation is that there is going to be a small fall to 4.4 or 4.3%, nothing like last month. Although petrol prices are coming down there seem a lot of things going up and the planned increase in the minimum wage will have a lot of employers looking to squeeze a bit more in price increases.
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
Basically, the Scottish government's policy of universal benefits buying popularity has run out of road. Significant cuts are now inevitable as, sadly, are more tax increases. Getting consultants, for example, to come to Scotland is going to be challenging.
I suppose you mean medical consultants. If you mean management experts otoh, getting rid of McKinsey's and similar incompetent parasites is one of the few things that could tempt me to support higher taxes.
Yes, I meant medical consultants. There are huge numbers of vacancies in the Scottish NHS. A local witch hunt which proved to have no substance whatsoever left Tayside without any cancer specialists for a time. There has been 1 or 2 employed now but it has proved very hard work.
Wasn't this the inevitable outcome of higher income taxes in Scotland vs England? Why would anyone stick around when they can get a job south of the border for the same or more money and have a higher take home? Call it selfish or whatever but people are rational, especially those in the highest income brackets. It might only be £1000 per year for them but they're in a 49% marginal rate which people notice.
The counterbalancing factor is that housing costs are typically much lower in Scotland so you may well still have more disposable income. The counterbalance to that, of course, is that you get less capital appreciation as well. A new, even higher rate on incomes over £75k will undoubtedly make Scotland a harder sell.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
My read of it was simply that they don't think either the UK or Europe iare in a particularly good state whatever choices are made.
There is a pervasive mood of pessimism although I note that the traditional Santa rally has been particularly strong this year.
I think that both the UK and much of the EU is suffering from debt exhaustion. We have debt piled up everywhere, whether in the public sector or in businesses and, as interest rates become higher in real terms, this is a drag on future growth. We have been living on our seed corn for too long and people are wondering where the next harvest is going to come from.
To some extent we need this period of high interest rates to concentrate minds in government and business to cut back spending and to eliminate zombie companies that hold the economy back and replace them with new more dynamic ones. Take supermarkets as an example, the lower debt companies like Sainsbury's, Tesco and the German discounters have been destroying Asda and Morrisons lately and those two losing share has been a net positive for the nation as it's forced their owners to reconsider the current strategy of holding so much debt and now they're having to pump billions of equity in to compete and stop losing market share.
On supermarkets, at least in the northern small city I know best, you would think something has to give. The local population is stable - it is not a massive population growth area (Cumbria has grown about 2% on the last 30 years and on the Scottish side it too is all sheep). In the last years at least 6 new supermarkets, all but one being Aldi/Lidl, have started, and none have closed, so going from about 4 large ones to about 10. I wonder how this is sustainable. (NB we are not posh enough for Waitrose but have all the others).
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
That's a good point. In the old days a working class person would have all their teeth removed and replaced with falsies as a coming-of-age present to themselves, the benefit being they could then get on with the rest of their life without worrying about dental bills. Two of my uncles did this. But we're supposed to have moved on from that. Teeth are now (rightly imo) deemed essential not a nice-to-have.
Didn't Carwyn Jones lead Labour to their best ever Welsh Assembly/Senedd result?
Like Drakeford, Jones won 30 Labour seats in what was then the Welsh Assembly in 2011 (as Rhodri Morgan also did in 2003) but he also got 42% on the constituency vote to 39% for Drakeford in 2021 and 36.9% on the regional vote to 36.2% for Drakeford
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Could be. So moving two steps from the original and cherished vision of the NHS (first make it cost quite a bit, second, render it unavailable) is less politically damaging than only moving one step. Nice case of the slowly boiling frog.
BTW social care, delays now decades old, is showing the same symptoms - moans but its not red hot. Labour never mention it...
My sister's a dentist. Thankless job, physically demanding, moderately paid unless you own your own string of surgeries. She is still largely NHS despite all the financial incentives for her and the practice being to focus on private. Does a bit of injecting toxins into people's lips and foreheads on the side.
One complaint you see from dentists is that NHS subsidies have not kept up with all the modern machines, so that effectively NHS treatments are a loss leader.
ETA another issue is there are large swathes of the country where there just are no dentists, or not enough dentists, of any stripe. As with doctors, we do not train enough dentists.
Maureen Sweeney, Irish postmistress who reported the 1944 storm that delayed D-Day – obituary
She did not know the data she sent from Europe’s most westerly weather station went straight to the Allies – even though Ireland was neutral
Maureen Sweeney, who has died aged 100, was a postmistress on the west coast of Ireland who supplied the weather reports of a storm in the Atlantic that persuaded Eisenhower to delay D-Day by 24 hours.
The Blacksod lighthouse-cum-post office, on the wind-battered Mullet peninsula in County Mayo, was Europe’s most westerly weather observation station. Every hour, day and night, reports had to be collected on barometric pressure, wind speed, temperature, precipitation, water vapour and other variables, using rudimentary instruments, by the assistant postmistress Maureen Flavin (as she then was); her future husband, Ted Sweeney, the lighthousekeeper; his mother, the postmistress; and his sister. Their reports were then transmitted over crackling telephone line to Ballina, Co Mayo, then to the Irish Meteorological Service in Dublin.
What they did not know was that, although Ireland was ostensibly neutral, the Taoiseach, Éamon de Valera, was sharing weather intelligence with the Allies, but not the Nazis. (With a similar sleight of hand, the Irish government had ordered huge stone signs saying “Éire” to be erected on the Irish coastline to ward off belligerent aircraft; each sign had a special number, which in fact made them invaluable for navigation, but these numbers were only supplied to the Allies.)
US inflation falling like a stone doesn't seem to have helped him - so it probably won't here. The "cost of living crisis" as a phrase will outlive inflation.
(Theory: the public understand that falling inflation doesn't mean prices are falling well enough - middle class condescension notwithstanding.)
The USA seems to be doing very well judging by various social media posts (UPS drivers earning $100,000 for example) wage wise but Biden doesn't seem to be getting credit for any of it. Mind you, almost everyone in the USA also seems not to be able to do anything else other than spend like a drunken sailor too judging by the Dave Ramsey phone ins.
Interest rates are higher in the US even than here though
A sane party would not have a Rwanda policy in the first place. Away from the hype and the fight, there’s barely a cigarette paper’s difference between the version wanted by the rebels, which is harebrained and unworkable, and the version proposed by Sunak, which is also harebrained and unworkable. It is a function of cringing deference to nonsense that the policy even exists, let alone that they basically all ended up voting for it.
Today, the Conservatives are scary. I don’t just mean in a Liz Truss way, like an unexpected midnight clown at the end of your bed. I mean that they feel flighty, erratic, unmoderated, prone to alarming lurches. With Brexit, after so many years of fights and votes and stasis, I can understand why even some moderate MPs just sighed and waved it through. But Rwanda? They all knew it was nonsense, from the PM who proposed it, to the home secretary who advanced it, to the supposed moderates themselves, and they all voted for it anyway.
I think it's something we've not discussed enough on here, tbh. The Tories are a genuinely different party from say, 2015. Johnson's tenure and the whole Brexit fight transformed the Tory party and cut it adrift from the political centre far more than Corbyn achieved with Labour. The party may have the same name as eight years ago but it is arguably an entirely different party, closer to UKIP than the pre-Brexit Conservatives.
Eh? 52% voted for Brexit and to cut immigration and Boris won more votes in 2019 than Cameron ever did in 2010 or 2015, even Corbyn got 40% in 2017 despite his landslide defeat in 2019.
Your mistake is assuming the centrist British voter is pro immigration, pro EU, socially liberal and economically small state and laissez faire.
When in fact the median British voter wants tighter immigration controls, voted to leave the EU, is socially moderate rather than liberal and economically for spending more on key public services while keeping their own taxes low (although they don't mind tax rises for the rich)
US inflation falling like a stone doesn't seem to have helped him - so it probably won't here. The "cost of living crisis" as a phrase will outlive inflation.
(Theory: the public understand that falling inflation doesn't mean prices are falling well enough - middle class condescension notwithstanding.)
Images like this will destroy Biden’s campaign
“BREAKING: Video from a contact on the ground in Eagle Pass, TX right now shows a mass of thousands of migrants waiting to be processed by Border Patrol after they crossed illegally today. I’ve spent hundreds of days there over the last 2+ years and I’ve never seen it like this.”
They would rather Trump wins than have any form of border control.
Immigration is possibly going to be THE issue across the west for the next few years
Yes. There are three basic policies towards this, both with regard to migration (legal and under the counter) and asylum seeking - which are different but linked (the government now calls asylum seeking 'illegal migration' which is sleight of hand).
1) Allow, manage the best you can and let the future do what it does
2) Put the cork in the champagne bottle, shake, and keep holding it down
3) Think about the fact that about 2 billion people want to join the 1 billion or so living in USA/EU/UK/AU/NZ/CA etc and work out how to make it better for most to want to stay where they are. Call it global levelling up both politically and economically.
A sane party would not have a Rwanda policy in the first place. Away from the hype and the fight, there’s barely a cigarette paper’s difference between the version wanted by the rebels, which is harebrained and unworkable, and the version proposed by Sunak, which is also harebrained and unworkable. It is a function of cringing deference to nonsense that the policy even exists, let alone that they basically all ended up voting for it.
Today, the Conservatives are scary. I don’t just mean in a Liz Truss way, like an unexpected midnight clown at the end of your bed. I mean that they feel flighty, erratic, unmoderated, prone to alarming lurches. With Brexit, after so many years of fights and votes and stasis, I can understand why even some moderate MPs just sighed and waved it through. But Rwanda? They all knew it was nonsense, from the PM who proposed it, to the home secretary who advanced it, to the supposed moderates themselves, and they all voted for it anyway.
I think it's something we've not discussed enough on here, tbh. The Tories are a genuinely different party from say, 2015. Johnson's tenure and the whole Brexit fight transformed the Tory party and cut it adrift from the political centre far more than Corbyn achieved with Labour. The party may have the same name as eight years ago but it is arguably an entirely different party, closer to UKIP than the pre-Brexit Conservatives.
While the question of cause and blame is about as complex and ancient as Israel/Palestine, it may be worth thinking about this: 1) The 2016 referendum was lost because of laziness, folly and a terrible campaign from the centre 2) Post referendum a cross party centrist consensus of those who wanted remain failed to agree a 'Norway for Now' proposal, or similar, which would have honoured Brexit and got most of what they wanted.
As a result the Tory party has for now abolished itself for its traditional centrist base, and Labour have to implement a Brexit policy they are all opposed to. Because they faffed about with Ref2, and leadership from the friend of Hamas they too have inflicted huge damage on themselves and us.
A figure worth noting. Tory support in polling is sometimes running at 22%. This is half of the 2019 election figure of 44%. They have lost 50% of their base.
Yes but almost 10% are now backing Reform and more 2019 Conservative voters are DK than have switched to Labour
This is pretty mad. It's currently costing over half a billion a year because the grid doesn't have sufficient capacity to transmit power from the north to the south of the UK. That's likely to quadruple over the next decade.
A 2GW HVDC line between (as an example) London and Aberdeen would cost approx £1-2bn. It's not difficult.
That's a good point. In the old days a working class person would have all their teeth removed and replaced with falsies as a coming-of-age present to themselves, the benefit being they could then get on with the rest of their life without worrying about dental bills. Two of my uncles did this. But we're supposed to have moved on from that. Teeth are now (rightly imo) deemed essential not a nice-to-have.
Now Albert's coming back, make yourself a bit smart. He'll want to know what you done with that money he gave you To get yourself some teeth. He did, I was there. You have them all out, Lil, and get a nice set, He said, I swear, I can't bear to look at you.
Mind you Biden is still on 41% approval so it is more the economy and jobs that is killing him than immigration (if tighter border controls are your main priority you will almost certainly have voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 anyway)
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
A sane party would not have a Rwanda policy in the first place. Away from the hype and the fight, there’s barely a cigarette paper’s difference between the version wanted by the rebels, which is harebrained and unworkable, and the version proposed by Sunak, which is also harebrained and unworkable. It is a function of cringing deference to nonsense that the policy even exists, let alone that they basically all ended up voting for it.
Today, the Conservatives are scary. I don’t just mean in a Liz Truss way, like an unexpected midnight clown at the end of your bed. I mean that they feel flighty, erratic, unmoderated, prone to alarming lurches. With Brexit, after so many years of fights and votes and stasis, I can understand why even some moderate MPs just sighed and waved it through. But Rwanda? They all knew it was nonsense, from the PM who proposed it, to the home secretary who advanced it, to the supposed moderates themselves, and they all voted for it anyway.
I think it's something we've not discussed enough on here, tbh. The Tories are a genuinely different party from say, 2015. Johnson's tenure and the whole Brexit fight transformed the Tory party and cut it adrift from the political centre far more than Corbyn achieved with Labour. The party may have the same name as eight years ago but it is arguably an entirely different party, closer to UKIP than the pre-Brexit Conservatives.
Yep. That Nigel Farage is seen as a top leadership contender for the Cons if he could only get himself a seat shows the truth of this. I've said before how I'm struck by the sequence of things here. 'Europe' was meant to destroy the Tory Party. But what happened (via Brexit) was it did the opposite. It destroyed Labour instead and delivered the Cons a big GE win. Now it's resumed its destiny (as an issue) and is doing what it was always supposed to. Destroying the Tory Party.
US inflation falling like a stone doesn't seem to have helped him - so it probably won't here. The "cost of living crisis" as a phrase will outlive inflation.
(Theory: the public understand that falling inflation doesn't mean prices are falling well enough - middle class condescension notwithstanding.)
Images like this will destroy Biden’s campaign
“BREAKING: Video from a contact on the ground in Eagle Pass, TX right now shows a mass of thousands of migrants waiting to be processed by Border Patrol after they crossed illegally today. I’ve spent hundreds of days there over the last 2+ years and I’ve never seen it like this.”
On topic, I will be very surprised if it isn't Vaughan Gethin, but as I mentioned before his inability to speak Welsh may count against him.
It's not that there are lots of Welsh speakers, it's just that their votes matter in rather a lot of marginal areas - Carmarthenshire, southern Powys, the western Valleys, and the north-west around Bangor and Mon.
Are the Welsh really that parochial?
You're good, Yorkshireman, but you're not THAT good. You could be magnificent!
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
That's a good point. In the old days a working class person would have all their teeth removed and replaced with falsies as a coming-of-age present to themselves, the benefit being they could then get on with the rest of their life without worrying about dental bills. Two of my uncles did this. But we're supposed to have moved on from that. Teeth are now (rightly imo) deemed essential not a nice-to-have.
First time I heard that was at my daughter's wedding where the priest had been a missionary to Borneo or Guyana or some such and before setting out both he and his wife had all their teeth removed. It was standard practice for such people, apparently.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
The expectation is that there is going to be a small fall to 4.4 or 4.3%, nothing like last month. Although petrol prices are coming down there seem a lot of things going up and the planned increase in the minimum wage will have a lot of employers looking to squeeze a bit more in price increases.
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
Note core inflation in the UK is currently a couple of percent higher than in Europe. (It's a bit lower in the US than the EU.)
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What's it coming to when blokes discuss their feelings ?
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
I rated all the members according to their votes.
Megan Greene STRONG HAWK Catherine L Mann HAWK Jonathan Haskel V SLIGHT HAWK Andrew Bailey NEUTRAL Sarah Breeden NEUTRAL Ben Broadbent NEUTRAL Huw Pill NEUTRAL Dave Ramsden NEUTRAL Swati Dhingra DOVE
Dhingra the lone dove on the committee.
Ben Broadbent has never deviated from a majority decision since he joined in 2011, so he's useful as a decision anchor.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
Has anyone taken a train journey recently that did not involve a litany of excuses and apologies? I was commuting as a kid in the late 80s, and it was better than this. Privatisation has not worked.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What's it coming to when blokes discuss their feelings ?
Leon, do something !
Language is a fascinating biological entity. Woke is a classic meme, in the original Richard Dawkins sense of the word (even the word "meme" has itself become a meme).
Woke now seem to encompass: health and safety rules, everything that used to be "PC gone mad", returning artefacts from the British Museum, gender neutral toilets, net zero, 20mph speed limits, blokes discussing their feelings, avocados on toast, plus anything to do with colonialism.
Which is a shame because I do think there is an issue out there, mainly in academia, of identity politics eating itself and a return of a hyper-racialised, hyper-identitarian way of seeing the world which isn't healthy. But that probably shouldn't be called woke either. It's identity politics. Woke originated simply as a description of being awake to injustices suffered by - predominantly - Black Americans. A very honourable sentiment.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
The expectation is that there is going to be a small fall to 4.4 or 4.3%, nothing like last month. Although petrol prices are coming down there seem a lot of things going up and the planned increase in the minimum wage will have a lot of employers looking to squeeze a bit more in price increases.
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
It feels to me like we’ve still got a good 6 months or so before the bank considers cutting base rate. To that extent, if you’re wanting to take advantage of fixed rates on savings, now or v early next financial year feels like a good bet to me, (but DYOR as always)!!
If there’s evidence Rishi Sunak - who ran the Treasury at the time of covid - profited from a surge in the share price of the Moderna vaccine through a blind trust, would that be an instant resignation? Or would he only be out if the polling dropped on that news?
What actually would be wrong in Sunak, or anyone in the government at the time, profiting from a surge in Moderna share price through a blind trust? How naughty a thing is that, these days?
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
#countrygoingtothedogs
I know scaffolders talk about their feelings. Particularly the feeling 'angry'. At great volume, in very colourful language, in my experience.
That's a good point. In the old days a working class person would have all their teeth removed and replaced with falsies as a coming-of-age present to themselves, the benefit being they could then get on with the rest of their life without worrying about dental bills. Two of my uncles did this. But we're supposed to have moved on from that. Teeth are now (rightly imo) deemed essential not a nice-to-have.
Now Albert's coming back, make yourself a bit smart. He'll want to know what you done with that money he gave you To get yourself some teeth. He did, I was there. You have them all out, Lil, and get a nice set, He said, I swear, I can't bear to look at you.
Well, if Albert won’t leave you alone, there it is, I said, What you get married for if you don’t want children?
Since when was being into history a left wing thing, or contrary to being on the right?
Yeah, "history buff" could just mean "likes watching documentaries about WWII".
Obvs the wrong sort of documentaries, though, is to be understood by the reader.
In my experience even serious tank/military vehicle enthusiasts range from traditional Labour trade unionist to Genghis Khan, though not quite as far as one or two of us.
Now, at Leon's request, lesson 2 of successful project management: Make sure all the targets you publish are slam-dunk gimmes.
Lesson 2a of project management, at no one’s request but relevant to Sunak’s promises: if at the time you set targets they were actually slam dunk gimmies, driving trains pays well as an alternative career.
However, the truth here, in case you have not been paying attention, If the economy grows at 0.00001 and 0.000001 is shaved off borrowing, Sunak can tell Mr Speaker he has grown the economy and got borrowing down, at every PMQs. And he is.
There is not a cat in hell's chance of even 0.000001p being shaved off Debt (which as the pledge). The amount being added to debt each month (the deficit) might reduce but that is not what Sunak pledged. (And in fact the deficit rose to in the last published figures which were for Q2 2023.)
If there’s evidence Rishi Sunak - who ran the Treasury at the time of covid - profited from a surge in the share price of the Moderna vaccine through a blind trust, would that be an instant resignation? Or would he only be out if the polling dropped on that news?
What actually would be wrong in Sunak, or anyone in the government at the time, profiting from a surge in Moderna share price through a blind trust? How naughty a thing is that, these days?
That 'these days' is very telling.
They call it corruption for a reason - outside of external conquest nothing kills economies and political systems quite so efficiently
If there’s evidence Rishi Sunak - who ran the Treasury at the time of covid - profited from a surge in the share price of the Moderna vaccine through a blind trust, would that be an instant resignation? Or would he only be out if the polling dropped on that news?
What actually would be wrong in Sunak, or anyone in the government at the time, profiting from a surge in Moderna share price through a blind trust? How naughty a thing is that, these days?
It should only be an issue if he was informed before it was public knowledge that Moderna had created a successful vaccine and/or he was told by the vaccine group that the UK or US or EU were going to approve and buy billions of pounds worth before that news was public.
He would then have had to have also tipped off his trustees to buy Moderna against the rules. So if that was the fantasy situation then he would be in huge shit for many good reasons. I guess it’s absolutely none of the above so it shouldn’t matter in a sane world but I guess there will be a raft of social media posts around claiming he did something wrong. Mone showing her class though with a bit of a nudge and a wink.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
#countrygoingtothedogs
I know scaffolders talk about their feelings. Particularly the feeling 'angry'. At great volume, in very colourful language, in my experience.
'These have got to be plumb. No way is that fucking plumb.'
Since when was being into history a left wing thing, or contrary to being on the right?
Indeed!
I do wonder if this is a result of some kind of metric driven headline writing. The DM knows that “woke” headlines drive website hits, so now everything is woke.
Dare one suggest that a company that has something of a vested interest in volatility in the bond market and wants interest rates to come down a bit faster thinks that there are risks in not doing so.
The reality is that our economy has been surviving on negative real interest rates since 2009 and we finally have a real return on capital, albeit an historically modest one. That will undoubtedly hurt those who have been dependent on cheap money but it will also keep the downward pressure on inflation.
There is, of course, a risk that the Bank will be too slow in bringing interest rates down, just as it was too slow in putting them up. Sterling is also quite strong at the moment which should also reduce inflationary pressures on imported goods as well. The Bank is waiting to see if inflation continues to fall sharply. As are we all.
Will we see an inflation 'surprise' tomorrow? Petrol and diesel prices have fallen significantly in the last few weeks (I know some of this won't affect NOV CPI) and things like food price increases have slowed, maybe we could see sub 4% CPI tomorrow? (Oct 4.6%).
I don't expect any falls in bank rate maybe 0.25% until the Bank is satisfied that we really are on track/approaching the 2% CPI.
The expectation is that there is going to be a small fall to 4.4 or 4.3%, nothing like last month. Although petrol prices are coming down there seem a lot of things going up and the planned increase in the minimum wage will have a lot of employers looking to squeeze a bit more in price increases.
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
It feels to me like we’ve still got a good 6 months or so before the bank considers cutting base rate. To that extent, if you’re wanting to take advantage of fixed rates on savings, now or v early next financial year feels like a good bet to me, (but DYOR as always)!!
The 2 year NSI offer of a couple of months ago was absolute dynamite. Hope some people on here got into that.
Since when was being into history a left wing thing, or contrary to being on the right?
Yeah, "history buff" could just mean "likes watching documentaries about WWII".
The podcast 'We have ways' from Al Murray and James Holland, focussed on all aspects of the second world war has a collection of followers (the Independent company) which seem to be a certain type (mostly male, in their 40s and 50s and usually a bit overweight.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What has liking History got to do with being "woke"? Unless it is just class snobbery: i.e. how dare these manual workers have cultural interests?
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
Since when was being into history a left wing thing, or contrary to being on the right?
Indeed!
I do wonder if this is a result of some kind of metric driven headline writing. The DM knows that “woke” headlines drive website hits, so now everything is woke.
It's almost certainly GPT4 writing these headlines.
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Could be. So moving two steps from the original and cherished vision of the NHS (first make it cost quite a bit, second, render it unavailable) is less politically damaging than only moving one step. Nice case of the slowly boiling frog.
BTW social care, delays now decades old, is showing the same symptoms - moans but its not red hot. Labour never mention it...
My sister's a dentist. Thankless job, physically demanding, moderately paid unless you own your own string of surgeries. She is still largely NHS despite all the financial incentives for her and the practice being to focus on private. Does a bit of injecting toxins into people's lips and foreheads on the side.
For most of my life, I was unaware that there even was an NHS dentistry service. I've always paid an arm and a leg.
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Could be. So moving two steps from the original and cherished vision of the NHS (first make it cost quite a bit, second, render it unavailable) is less politically damaging than only moving one step. Nice case of the slowly boiling frog.
BTW social care, delays now decades old, is showing the same symptoms - moans but its not red hot. Labour never mention it...
My sister's a dentist. Thankless job, physically demanding, moderately paid unless you own your own string of surgeries. She is still largely NHS despite all the financial incentives for her and the practice being to focus on private. Does a bit of injecting toxins into people's lips and foreheads on the side.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
#countrygoingtothedogs
These days, if you ask a builder to tell you the difference between a joist and a girder, he'll say that the first wrote Ulysses, and the second wrote Faust.
"The truth about the Gatwick drone incident Five years ago today, the British authorities lost their minds chasing a drone that never existed Fraser Myers"
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What's it coming to when blokes discuss their feelings ?
Leon, do something !
Language is a fascinating biological entity. Woke is a classic meme, in the original Richard Dawkins sense of the word (even the word "meme" has itself become a meme).
Woke now seem to encompass: health and safety rules, everything that used to be "PC gone mad", returning artefacts from the British Museum, gender neutral toilets, net zero, 20mph speed limits, blokes discussing their feelings, avocados on toast, plus anything to do with colonialism.
Which is a shame because I do think there is an issue out there, mainly in academia, of identity politics eating itself and a return of a hyper-racialised, hyper-identitarian way of seeing the world which isn't healthy. But that probably shouldn't be called woke either. It's identity politics. Woke originated simply as a description of being awake to injustices suffered by - predominantly - Black Americans. A very honourable sentiment.
Woke exists, it is deeply dangerous, and identity politics is at the very core
Ergo, much as it may annoy the Woke, the rest of us won't stop using "Woke"
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
That's projection, isn't it? I never hear anyone talking about it, and mainly encounter it here, mainly from your eesteemed self, and in the Daily Mail.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What's it coming to when blokes discuss their feelings ?
Leon, do something !
Language is a fascinating biological entity. Woke is a classic meme, in the original Richard Dawkins sense of the word (even the word "meme" has itself become a meme).
Woke now seem to encompass: health and safety rules, everything that used to be "PC gone mad", returning artefacts from the British Museum, gender neutral toilets, net zero, 20mph speed limits, blokes discussing their feelings, avocados on toast, plus anything to do with colonialism.
Which is a shame because I do think there is an issue out there, mainly in academia, of identity politics eating itself and a return of a hyper-racialised, hyper-identitarian way of seeing the world which isn't healthy. But that probably shouldn't be called woke either. It's identity politics. Woke originated simply as a description of being awake to injustices suffered by - predominantly - Black Americans. A very honourable sentiment.
Woke exists, it is deeply dangerous, and identity politics is at the very core
So much as it may annoy the Woke, the rest of us wont stop using Woke
You literally are the most woke person here, you tell us about your feelings and history all the time.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What has liking History got to do with being "woke"? Unless it is just class snobbery: i.e. how dare these manual workers have cultural interests?
I think it's a Things Aint What They Used To Be lament inspired by that piece from Orwell which we all know and love:
"Britain, the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers, old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist, and hairy arsed builders effing and blinding over the bacon butties."
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
You either agree with the Mail that liking history is woke, or you don't. Do you?
You either agree with the Mail that discussing feelings is woke, or you don't. Do you?
You either agree with the Mail that not eating a fried breakfast is woke, or you don't. Do you?
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What has liking History got to do with being "woke"? Unless it is just class snobbery: i.e. how dare these manual workers have cultural interests?
I think it's a Things Aint What They Used To Be lament inspired by that piece from Orwell which we all know and love:
"Britain, the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers, old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist, and hairy arsed builders effing and blinding over the bacon butties."
Only secondarily Orwell? Surely Mr Major, primarily.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
That's projection, isn't it? I never hear anyone talking about it, and mainly encounter it here, mainly from your eesteemed self, and in the Daily Mail.
That's palpable nonsense. It is very much a living issue in American politics, and therefore growing over here, too
"What Does “Woke” Mean, and How Did the Term Become So Powerful?"
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
There's a ghost of a point there but the indiscriminate use of 'Woke' is orders of magnitude greater than 'Fascist'.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
#countrygoingtothedogs
These days, if you ask a builder to tell you the difference between a joist and a girder, he'll say that the first wrote Ulysses, and the second wrote Faust.
Reminds me of a scene from Comic Strip’s “The Yob” when Gary Olsen is reading The Guardian on site
There is a really odd, long running politics and public puzzle here. I have used private dentists for years now because there was no alternative and having started I carry on. Million of others do the same or just drop out of teeth health.
While this is a recurring moan this does not cause the sort of political firestorm that overturns nations and causes governments to rethink or fall.
But the reality with teeth in the UK is so far removed from the 'NHS, universal, free at the point of delivery and based on need' is so far from Attlee's NHS that it is unrecognisable.
If they said 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice, so if you want medical care you go private and if you can't afford it you phone a friend' the government would fall in five minutes. Odd
Suspect this is because NHS dentistry costs at the point of delivery, and is merely subsidised. If it were free at the point of delivery, there would be more anger.
Could be. So moving two steps from the original and cherished vision of the NHS (first make it cost quite a bit, second, render it unavailable) is less politically damaging than only moving one step. Nice case of the slowly boiling frog.
BTW social care, delays now decades old, is showing the same symptoms - moans but its not red hot. Labour never mention it...
My sister's a dentist. Thankless job, physically demanding, moderately paid unless you own your own string of surgeries. She is still largely NHS despite all the financial incentives for her and the practice being to focus on private. Does a bit of injecting toxins into people's lips and foreheads on the side.
For most of my life, I was unaware that there even was an NHS dentistry service. I've always paid an arm and a leg.
I'm old enough to remember NHS glasses - pink, wire-framed, guaranteed to get me beaten up. Nowadays I wear Roy Orbison frames and look well cool. And they do, indeed, cost a bomb.
Woke became the word the right used to stand in for what they saw as the hegemonising swarm of leftist beliefs & goals.
Which is fine, usage defines language & language shifts over time, even if it sucks for those who were using it originally with their own more specific definition.
What’s weird is that it seems to be expanding to include “whatever makes the DM headline writers even slightly uncomfortable”. Anything that challenges their perceived status quo (or maybe the status quo ante of the idealised DM reader in the headline writers’ heads?) in any way whatsoever has become “woke” including, apparently, pixie haircuts for French beauty contest winners & builders talking about their feelings. But if everything is woke, then nothing is woke.
I imagine the word will drop out of DM headlines eventually, probably once their readership ceases to have this Pavlovian response that makes them click on every headline containing the word in question.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
What has liking History got to do with being "woke"? Unless it is just class snobbery: i.e. how dare these manual workers have cultural interests?
I think it's a Things Aint What They Used To Be lament inspired by that piece from Orwell which we all know and love:
"Britain, the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers, old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist, and hairy arsed builders effing and blinding over the bacon butties."
Only secondarily Orwell? Surely Mr Major, primarily.
That's right. Orwell inspired but most of it was Major. Now taken up by the Daily Mail albeit with rather less lyricism.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
There's a ghost of a point there but the indiscriminate use of 'Woke' is orders of magnitude greater than 'Fascist'.
Also nonsense. Wanky students have been shouting FASCIST at anything they don't like for decades. Remember Rik Mayall's character in The Young Ones
That tendency has only grown over time, not diminished. The only difference is that the right now has a boo-word of its own, absurd on the periphery, but very serious when well-aimed: Woke
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
Once, like dentists once did, you drill down, opinions are individual and nuanced and don't come in packages, and are subject to endless alteration and drift.
It isn't really possible, except with very dim people, to know what it means to describe them with words like woke, reactionary, traditionalist, right, left, centre and so on. Like others I use them, but they rarely help a lot except in a very precise context.
Lots of huffing and puffing about the Daily Mail etc describing everything as woke. The DM does not exist to extend, advance and nuance debate. It exists to sell papers and a website to sell readers to advertisers. Like so many others. This relies on easy lies and generalisations.
Woke became the word the right used to stand in for what they saw as the hegemonising swarm of leftist beliefs & goals.
Which is fine, usage defines language & language shifts over time, even if it sucks for those who were using it originally with their own more specific definition.
What’s weird is that it seems to be expanding to include “whatever makes the DM headline writers even slightly uncomfortable”. Anything that challenges their perceived status quo (or maybe the status quo ante of the idealised DM reader in the headline writers’ heads?) in any way whatsoever has become “woke” including, apparently, pixie haircuts for French beauty contest winners & builders talking about their feelings. But if everything is woke, then nothing is woke.
I imagine the word will drop out of DM headlines eventually, probably once their readership ceases to have this Pavlovian response that makes them click on every headline containing the word in question.
Aren't the Mail online readers overwhelmingly young and "woke"? This appeals to the people that read the newspaper I guess but this is only an online article.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
You can't help but picture the scene. A group of well-spoken brickies on their break, discussing their feelings and some history over cucumber sandwiches and camomile tea, with not an arse crack in sight.
#countrygoingtothedogs
These days, if you ask a builder to tell you the difference between a joist and a girder, he'll say that the first wrote Ulysses, and the second wrote Faust.
Reminds me of a scene from Comic Strip’s “The Yob” when Gary Olsen is reading The Guardian on site
Wokery was infecting the RAF in the Gulf War decades ago: see photo
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
Once, like dentists once did, you drill down, opinions are individual and nuanced and don't come in packages, and are subject to endless alteration and drift.
It isn't really possible, except with very dim people, to know what it means to describe them with words like woke, reactionary, traditionalist, right, left, centre and so on. Like others I use them, but they rarely help a lot except in a very precise context.
Lots of huffing and puffing about the Daily Mail etc describing everything as woke. The DM does not exist to extend, advance and nuance debate. It exists to sell papers and a website to sell readers to advertisers. Like so many others. This relies on easy lies and generalisations.
I am huffing and puffing because their headline shuns the idea of men opening up about their feelings which we know is one of the biggest preventers of male suicide. So yes I will stick by what I said thank you.
I would hope you would also support men opening up, as I am sure you too care about suicide rates in men and how appalling it is.
Anti-wokeism is decomposing into a kind of right-wing Corbynism.
Walk to work? WOKE Eat cereal for breakfast? WOKE Interested in military history? WOKE Steel toe caps? WOKE
Beware 5 syllable Tories: "Oh, Oliver Dowden..."
Control borders? FASCIST Leave the EU? FASCIST Reduce benefits for three kids? FASCIST Vote Tory? FASCIST Be male, white and over 40? FASCIST
etc
Quite. Anti-wokeism is at that level.
When "Woke" is used as the Mail is using it in that absurd headline: Yes, I agree
But anti-Wokeism is very important and very necesary when aimed at the evils of true Wokeness, like American Uni presidents unable to condemn "calls for the genocide of Jews" - an outrage which springs directly from their Woke ideologies of intersectionality, oppression, and anti-colonialism
The car has hit the pole on the other side of the road.
Stop being so WOKE.
Why weren't the mother and baby wearing high-vis, or at least a helmet? Drivers should have the freedom to drive on the pavement without pedestrians and Belisha Beacons getting in the way.
Next you'll be suggesting 20mph limits like Mark effing Drakeford.
"The truth about the Gatwick drone incident Five years ago today, the British authorities lost their minds chasing a drone that never existed Fraser Myers"
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Woke never meant anything.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
It is noticeable that the people most wound up about the word "Woke" are, for the want of a better word, the Woke
Do you think that discussing your feelings or liking history is woke?
You're woke, congratulations.
No, it's ridiculous
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
There's a ghost of a point there but the indiscriminate use of 'Woke' is orders of magnitude greater than 'Fascist'.
In our mixed up world the Fascists are becoming the good guys and liberally minded folk are the enemy. It is particularly worrying in the US where Trump and Putin are revered.
I don't think we are at that stage here yet, but there are posters on here who embrace the malign journey of Suella Braverman and Robert Jenrick.
Those same posters justify Bibi's eradication of Palestinians and white flag waving Israeli hostages as the direct (not indirect) fault of Hamas, irrespective of who turned the water off, dropped the bomb or fired the shot.
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Builder who did our extension is something of an opera buff and and an avid Radio 4 listener. Mind you, he also lives down our street, so very much #oneofus
I had to pretend to be more cultured than I am when talking to him!
The car has hit the pole on the other side of the road.
Stop being so WOKE.
Why weren't the mother and baby wearing high-vis, or at least a helmet? Drivers should have the freedom to drive on the pavement without pedestrians and Belisha Beacons getting in the way.
Next you'll be suggesting 20mph limits like Mark effing Drakeford.
It's crackers that the driver didn't even get 3 points for this. Perhaps a driving awareness course would be seen as too trivial a punishment for such an incident (Or a few points) so basically the driver gets away with it because of the sheer awfulness of their driving meaning an appropriate censure (Dangerous / careless driving) requires a higher bar than going 24 mph through a 20.
Comments
A key factor for the Bank is going to be core inflation which is currently somewhat higher than the headline rate at present. They will also be watching the rate of increase in wages closely. I think the Bank will wanting to see some moderation in both of these before any move is even thought of.
Fatalism too, perhaps, on the part of those without dental care. And ignorance at the top. I don't suppose top civil servants or MPs are personally affected. Even on PB one or two posters have despaired of finding affordable dentistry but most of us read it and moved on.
Like Drakeford, Jones won 30 Labour seats in what was then the Welsh Assembly in 2011 (as Rhodri Morgan also did in 2003) but he also got 42% on the constituency vote to 39% for Drakeford in 2021 and 36.9% on the regional vote to 36.2% for Drakeford
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_National_Assembly_for_Wales_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Senedd_election
ETA another issue is there are large swathes of the country where there just are no dentists, or not enough dentists, of any stripe. As with doctors, we do not train enough dentists.
Your mistake is assuming the centrist British voter is pro immigration, pro EU, socially liberal and economically small state and laissez faire.
When in fact the median British voter wants tighter immigration controls, voted to leave the EU, is socially moderate rather than liberal and economically for spending more on key public services while keeping their own taxes low (although they don't mind tax rises for the rich)
1) Allow, manage the best you can and let the future do what it does
2) Put the cork in the champagne bottle, shake, and keep holding it down
3) Think about the fact that about 2 billion people want to join the 1 billion or so living in USA/EU/UK/AU/NZ/CA etc and work out how to make it better for most to want to stay where they are. Call it global levelling up both politically and economically.
No, none of these will work. There are no others.
He'll want to know what you done with that money he gave you
To get yourself some teeth. He did, I was there.
You have them all out, Lil, and get a nice set,
He said, I swear, I can't bear to look at you.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
“Woke” has become completely meaningless now. Just a vague all encompassing term for “things the right doesn’t like”, including (apparently) talking to your colleagues about feelings.
(This particular headline is deranged, in case it wasn’t already obvious.)
Leon, do something !
Since when was being into history a left wing thing, or contrary to being on the right?
Megan Greene STRONG HAWK
Catherine L Mann HAWK
Jonathan Haskel V SLIGHT HAWK
Andrew Bailey NEUTRAL
Sarah Breeden NEUTRAL
Ben Broadbent NEUTRAL
Huw Pill NEUTRAL
Dave Ramsden NEUTRAL
Swati Dhingra DOVE
Dhingra the lone dove on the committee.
Ben Broadbent has never deviated from a majority decision since he joined in 2011, so he's useful as a decision anchor.
#countrygoingtothedogs
Has anyone taken a train journey recently that did not involve a litany of excuses and apologies? I was commuting as a kid in the late 80s, and it was better than this. Privatisation has not worked.
https://x.com/isabeloakeshott/status/1737026413641846881?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Woke now seem to encompass: health and safety rules, everything that used to be "PC gone mad", returning artefacts from the British Museum, gender neutral toilets, net zero, 20mph speed limits, blokes discussing their feelings, avocados on toast, plus anything to do with colonialism.
Which is a shame because I do think there is an issue out there, mainly in academia, of identity politics eating itself and a return of a hyper-racialised, hyper-identitarian way of seeing the world which isn't healthy. But that probably shouldn't be called woke either. It's identity politics. Woke originated simply as a description of being awake to injustices suffered by - predominantly - Black Americans. A very honourable sentiment.
What actually would be wrong in Sunak, or anyone in the government at the time, profiting from a surge in Moderna share price through a blind trust? How naughty a thing is that, these days?
Edit: which probably means a torrent of denunciations of such wokery.
*depressing*
What you get married for if you don’t want children?
In my experience even serious tank/military vehicle enthusiasts range from traditional Labour trade unionist to Genghis Khan, though not quite as far as one or two of us.
They call it corruption for a reason - outside of external conquest nothing kills economies and political systems quite so efficiently
He would then have had to have also tipped off his trustees to buy Moderna against the rules. So if that was the fantasy situation then he would be in huge shit for many good reasons. I guess it’s absolutely none of the above so it shouldn’t matter in a sane world but I guess there will be a raft of social media posts around claiming he did something wrong. Mone showing her class though with a bit of a nudge and a wink.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/90f4edca-535c-4b8c-a175-ea1e4893b304
I do wonder if this is a result of some kind of metric driven headline writing. The DM knows that “woke” headlines drive website hits, so now everything is woke.
Mr. Phil, you may be onto something. I wonder if AI is being used to determine certain keywords or headlines.
We need to find a new phrase for what most people are, let's say "not twats"
How the CCP infiltrated Britain
Cameron foolishly took China at its word
By Sam Dunning"
https://unherd.com/2023/12/how-the-ccp-infiltrated-britain/
Mail suicide is one of - if not the highest - killers in young men. People should be applauded for opening up, not shunned.
Really makes my blood boil.
Five years ago today, the British authorities lost their minds chasing a drone that never existed
Fraser Myers"
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/19/the-truth-about-the-gatwick-drone-incident/
You're woke, congratulations.
Ergo, much as it may annoy the Woke, the rest of us won't stop using "Woke"
But it's ridiculous in the same way any attempt to deport foreign criminals is labelled as "Fascist", or any Tory policy about, say, anything, is also called "Fascist"
Fascist is a painfully overused word, laughably so at times (as is the use of "Woke" here); but does Fascism exist? Absolutely, and it needs to be labelled as such, so we can perceive the danger
Same goes for "Wokeness". Label it, crush it
"Britain, the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers, old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist, and hairy arsed builders effing and blinding over the bacon butties."
Mental health is something I care deeply about as it has impacted my life considerably and these kinds of headlines really make me angry.
You either agree with the Mail that discussing feelings is woke, or you don't. Do you?
You either agree with the Mail that not eating a fried breakfast is woke, or you don't. Do you?
"What Does “Woke” Mean, and How Did the Term Become So Powerful?"
https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/political-scene/what-does-woke-mean-and-how-did-the-term-become-so-powerful
Walk to work? WOKE
Eat cereal for breakfast? WOKE
Interested in military history? WOKE
Steel toe caps? WOKE
Beware 5 syllable Tories: "Oh, Oliver Dowden..."
Leave the EU? FASCIST
Reduce benefits for three kids? FASCIST
Vote Tory? FASCIST
Be male, white and over 40? FASCIST
etc
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12880327/moment-car-crashes-mother-daughter-pushchair.html#comments
The car has hit the pole on the other side of the road.
Which is fine, usage defines language & language shifts over time, even if it sucks for those who were using it originally with their own more specific definition.
What’s weird is that it seems to be expanding to include “whatever makes the DM headline writers even slightly uncomfortable”. Anything that challenges their perceived status quo (or maybe the status quo ante of the idealised DM reader in the headline writers’ heads?) in any way whatsoever has become “woke” including, apparently, pixie haircuts for French beauty contest winners & builders talking about their feelings. But if everything is woke, then nothing is woke.
I imagine the word will drop out of DM headlines eventually, probably once their readership ceases to have this Pavlovian response that makes them click on every headline containing the word in question.
That tendency has only grown over time, not diminished. The only difference is that the right now has a boo-word of its own, absurd on the periphery, but very serious when well-aimed: Woke
It isn't really possible, except with very dim people, to know what it means to describe them with words like woke, reactionary, traditionalist, right, left, centre and so on. Like others I use them, but they rarely help a lot except in a very precise context.
Lots of huffing and puffing about the Daily Mail etc describing everything as woke. The DM does not exist to extend, advance and nuance debate. It exists to sell papers and a website to sell readers to advertisers. Like so many others. This relies on easy lies and generalisations.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nose_of_SEPECAT_Jaguar_GR.1A_“The_Guardian_Reader”_-XZ375-_(49663260473).jpg
I would hope you would also support men opening up, as I am sure you too care about suicide rates in men and how appalling it is.
But anti-Wokeism is very important and very necesary when aimed at the evils of true Wokeness, like American Uni presidents unable to condemn "calls for the genocide of Jews" - an outrage which springs directly from their Woke ideologies of intersectionality, oppression, and anti-colonialism
Why weren't the mother and baby wearing high-vis, or at least a helmet? Drivers should have the freedom to drive on the pavement without pedestrians and Belisha Beacons getting in the way.
Next you'll be suggesting 20mph limits like Mark effing Drakeford.
I don't think we are at that stage here yet, but there are posters on here who embrace the malign journey of Suella Braverman and Robert Jenrick.
Those same posters justify Bibi's eradication of Palestinians and white flag waving Israeli hostages as the direct (not indirect) fault of Hamas, irrespective of who turned the water off, dropped the bomb or fired the shot.
I had to pretend to be more cultured than I am when talking to him!