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Too many tweets, Part II – politicalbetting.com

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    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
  • Options

    The morning thread features the alternative voting system.

    :innocent:

    2011 referendum:

    No2AV = 68%
    Yes2AV = 32%
  • Options

    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
    Lucy Powell's KCL team beat City featuring Sebastian Payne who wrote The Fall of Boris Johnson.
  • Options

    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
    Lucy Powell's KCL team beat City featuring Sebastian Payne who wrote The Fall of Boris Johnson.
    Yeah, just saw that!
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,049
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I vaguely recall a proposal to store information in a digital format as optical data on microfiche.

    As long as the film isn't destroyed by fire, still readable well into the future as long as you understand the encoding scheme

    How long does the plastic last or remain readable? Genuine question.
    Plastic is made from oil. How long before Just Stop Oil destroy all the records?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,270
    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I vaguely recall a proposal to store information in a digital format as optical data on microfiche.

    As long as the film isn't destroyed by fire, still readable well into the future as long as you understand the encoding scheme

    How long does the plastic last or remain readable? Genuine question.
    Don't know, but does it have to be plastic? Could it be glass?
  • Options
    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542

    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
    Lucy Powell's KCL team beat City featuring Sebastian Payne who wrote The Fall of Boris Johnson.
    Really? I thought it was University Challenge?

    Bit embarrassing for City if they lost to a bunch of superannuated nobodies from KCL. Doesn't augur well for their chances against Liverpool or Arsenal.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Ministry of Justice plan to destroy historical wills is ‘insane’, say experts
    Department hopes to save £4.5m a year by digitising – then binning – about 100m wills that date back 150 years

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/18/ministry-of-justice-plan-to-destroy-historical-wills-is-insane-say-experts

    Digital media are NOT suitable for storage over decades or centuries. Beanpole Tory Tophat guy (forgotten the name) was exactly right when he insisted i keeping vellum parchment for Acts and Bills.
    Actually, if sensible methods are used, the lifespan of digital documents is infinite. The loses of vellum/parchment over the centuries to fire, rats etc are immense.
    Oh? Perhaps you could show us the digital files used by Bede for the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, and the original Excel spreadsheet used for Domesday?
    Things like this ?




    EDIT: we have less than 1% of Greek and Roman literature….
    I prefer this one.


    Old customs Die Hard?
    "If this is their idea of Christmas, I gotta be here for New Year!"
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,371
    ydoethur said:

    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
    Lucy Powell's KCL team beat City featuring Sebastian Payne who wrote The Fall of Boris Johnson.
    Really? I thought it was University Challenge?

    Bit embarrassing for City if they lost to a bunch of superannuated nobodies from KCL. Doesn't augur well for their chances against Liverpool or Arsenal.
    I see what you did there.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,400

    algarkirk said:

    Vaguely on topic, Blackman is right.

    Constitutional theory is about 100 years behind the reality and we could really do with a modern-day Bagehot to point out that actually, yes, the people are sovereign.

    1. The principle that parliament should be elected by and is accountable to the (adult) population of the country is unchallenged, bar fringe cases.

    2. Parliament may exercise sovereignty on behalf of the people but this is not the same as actually being sovereign in its own right. Legal sovereignty is not the same as the enduring political reality that underpins constitutional practice.

    3. The principle that first-order political questions should be settled by the people themselves through referendums - in other words, that parliament doesn't have the authority or legitimacy to decide those questions for itself - is now a constitutional convention. (This is not the same as saying that all referendums involve first-order political questions).

    4. The nature of the Parliament Act, Salisbury Convention and 'mandates' in general point to the people being the fundamental source of sovereignty.

    I take your point, but it seems to me that you are arguing in effect that sovereignty of 'people' or of 'parliament' amount to the same thing. The problem with the 'people' idea is that it is not recognisably cashable in terms of governance except through what parliament does. 'People' don't have legislating power (even through referendums). Perhaps 'the sovereignty of parliament is the means by which that of the people is effected' might be the best we can do.

    'Sovereignty of people' is an expression which smacks slightly of the sub-optimal elements of the French revolution, for all people are equal but when the shouting starts some tend to be more equal than others; and it also invites the cynical question: Who, whom?
    I don't think that's quite what I'm saying. Go back 200 years and there was a very clear sense in which parliament was apart from 'the people', and in which 'the mob' had a semi-legitimate role in the system as an expression of the politically excluded (all male, naturally, but still ...). Parliament was, however, still very much sovereign, irrespective of its democratic deficiencies (as we would now see them), perhaps even because of them.

    That has all gone. I'd argue that parliamentary sovereignty is now nothing more than the *expression* of the deeper sovereignty of the people. That while, for reasons of practical process, parliament has to embody the people's sovereignty, it nonetheless only holds that temporarily on trust rather than it being innate, hence why it feels it essential to refer questions like Brexit, Scottish independence or the GFA back to the people and to be bound by the decision - because to do otherwise would be to create a crisis of legitimacy. Such a crisis could not exist were parliament genuinely sovereign in practice as well as theory.
    I doubt we'll see referendums used similarly in the future, with the possible exception of a government that decides it wants to undo the effects of the previous one, rejoin, and knows it will get a rubber stamp that will give it cover to do so.

    2016 (and to an extent 2014 and even 2011) arguably showed that they are not the clean popular devices that placate and defuse issues that politicians want to abdicate responsibility for and create more problems than they are worth.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Victoria Coren-Mitchell is on BBC2 right now!

    No, Lucy Powell MP & Shadow Leader of the House is on BBC2 right now (Celeb University Challenge).
    I posted at 8.03pm, you know :lol:
    Lucy Powell's KCL team beat City featuring Sebastian Payne who wrote The Fall of Boris Johnson.
    Really? I thought it was University Challenge?

    Bit embarrassing for City if they lost to a bunch of superannuated nobodies from KCL. Doesn't augur well for their chances against Liverpool or Arsenal.
    I see what you did there.
    I had a simple goal.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,394
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi would be smart to not fight the election on the Tory record.

    So that’s exactly what he’s going to do.

    Boasting about tax cuts when taxes are at a record high. Criticising Starmer about 100k illegal refugees when legal immigrants are nearly that a month

    What could go wrong?
    Rishi Sunak is a Labour plant? How can anyone be this dumb, I do not understand it.

    Immigration is the achilles heel of the Tories and yet he wants to make it his mission to highlight how bad it is. He is doing nothing about the migration he can control and then to make it worse, is highlighting how his party can't handle illegal migration either.

    It is honestly baffling - but just shows him to be a bit thick.
    If in doubt, return the basic principle that Sunak Is Crap At Politics. That is almost always the explanation for whatever the day's self-own happens to be.

    The principle needs a name, like Cookie's Law. Rishi's Razor?
    Sunak's Saw: 'No matter how badly a message can be presented Rishi Sunak will find a way to make it worse'.
    I was musing the other day about words matched with Prime Ministers.

    Fear. Thatcher.

    Respect. Brown.

    Horror. Truss.

    Pity. Sunak

    As a politician, to be pitied is worse than any other emotion...
    Won't argue with the others, but "Respect. Brown."?

    Really?

    A man who set the dogs of Hell on any rivals, and for years fought for the PMship, then when he got it, had f-all idea what to do with it? A man who fought hos rivals within Labour more strongly then he did his enemies outside?

    Nasty. That is the word that should be associated with Brown. Nasty.
    Brown did not "set the dogs of hell on any rivals" as most of them were included in his Cabinet.
    The idea that the main descriptive word that attaches to the conceot "Gordon Brown Prime Minister" is "respect" is... uniquely special

    I think "knob" and "risible twat"
    In 2005, Tories led with Vote Blair, Get Brown until they found Gordon was the more popular of the two.
    Yes, Gordon Brown, prime minister of the century. Who can forget his charming smiley Youtube videos when he deployed his famously authentic and winning smile, time and again, to smilingly win so many elections

    https://youtu.be/TTE6cTBrGcA?si=ObMLBTqQcyQmgb68
    Truly a really nasty piece of work.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,684

    algarkirk said:

    Vaguely on topic, Blackman is right.

    Constitutional theory is about 100 years behind the reality and we could really do with a modern-day Bagehot to point out that actually, yes, the people are sovereign.

    1. The principle that parliament should be elected by and is accountable to the (adult) population of the country is unchallenged, bar fringe cases.

    2. Parliament may exercise sovereignty on behalf of the people but this is not the same as actually being sovereign in its own right. Legal sovereignty is not the same as the enduring political reality that underpins constitutional practice.

    3. The principle that first-order political questions should be settled by the people themselves through referendums - in other words, that parliament doesn't have the authority or legitimacy to decide those questions for itself - is now a constitutional convention. (This is not the same as saying that all referendums involve first-order political questions).

    4. The nature of the Parliament Act, Salisbury Convention and 'mandates' in general point to the people being the fundamental source of sovereignty.

    I take your point, but it seems to me that you are arguing in effect that sovereignty of 'people' or of 'parliament' amount to the same thing. The problem with the 'people' idea is that it is not recognisably cashable in terms of governance except through what parliament does. 'People' don't have legislating power (even through referendums). Perhaps 'the sovereignty of parliament is the means by which that of the people is effected' might be the best we can do.

    'Sovereignty of people' is an expression which smacks slightly of the sub-optimal elements of the French revolution, for all people are equal but when the shouting starts some tend to be more equal than others; and it also invites the cynical question: Who, whom?
    I don't think that's quite what I'm saying. Go back 200 years and there was a very clear sense in which parliament was apart from 'the people', and in which 'the mob' had a semi-legitimate role in the system as an expression of the politically excluded (all male, naturally, but still ...). Parliament was, however, still very much sovereign, irrespective of its democratic deficiencies (as we would now see them), perhaps even because of them.

    That has all gone. I'd argue that parliamentary sovereignty is now nothing more than the *expression* of the deeper sovereignty of the people. That while, for reasons of practical process, parliament has to embody the people's sovereignty, it nonetheless only holds that temporarily on trust rather than it being innate, hence why it feels it essential to refer questions like Brexit, Scottish independence or the GFA back to the people and to be bound by the decision - because to do otherwise would be to create a crisis of legitimacy. Such a crisis could not exist were parliament genuinely sovereign in practice as well as theory.
    I agree with all you say; whether I come to same conclusion from the agreed facts I am less sure. Universal suffrage + conventions about referendums has changed the structure of the playing field; I think my own conclusion is that this increases accountability in good ways but that the supremacy of parliament in the Burkean sense of it being entrusted to do and enact its best even if the people at that moment disagreed, prevails.

    Having said that both people and parliament are being tested perhaps to destruction by the Rwanda bill drafting. The fact that courts have uniquely the task of telling parliament the meaning of what it has done in the light of the law as a whole is also of the highest importance. People massively underestimate the powers that the courts hold in reserve for this purpose for the simple reason they have never had to use them. Yet.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,967
    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Ministry of Justice plan to destroy historical wills is ‘insane’, say experts
    Department hopes to save £4.5m a year by digitising – then binning – about 100m wills that date back 150 years

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/dec/18/ministry-of-justice-plan-to-destroy-historical-wills-is-insane-say-experts

    I saw this story the other day on Twitter, and it seems absolutely crazy; especially given what's just happened to the British Library.
    I see nobody seems to have raised the issue of legibility - in my experience it is sometimes necessary to go back to the original and not rely on some often perfunctory scan to see what was actually written.
    To give a trivial example, I am in possession of my father-in-law's ID tags from when he was a POW in Germany during WWII. The Imperial War Museum's website has his prisoner ID number wrong.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,967
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
    Who's going for the Crown?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
    Who's going for the Crown?
    The Sovereign.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,684

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    This seems a very trivial issue both to run a rule breaching campaign about, and to have Ofcom enquiries about. Especially as there is zero prospect of cash being abolished in the foreseeable future, and no-one takes GB News seriously, and hardly anyone knows it exists.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    algarkirk said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    This seems a very trivial issue both to run a rule breaching campaign about, and to have Ofcom enquiries about. Especially as there is zero prospect of cash being abolished in the foreseeable future, and no-one takes GB News seriously, and hardly anyone knows it exists.
    I was thinking, if it influenced 50% of its viewers in favour of cash, would those three people actually make a difference?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
    If only this debate was a far thing.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Their official objective was the elimination of Hamas, and it's much too early to say whether it's been achieved (or is even achievable).

    But I agree entirely with your (b).
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    But surely their cause was our cause too?

    And your a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives. They have achieved their official objectives?

    Suddenly the heat seems to be on Rishi, where he’s fortunate it’s Christmas so no one is paying attention.

    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-tories-pile-pressure-on-rishi-sunak-to-back-immediate-gaza-ceasefire-13033693
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,270

    in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.

    I bought something on Saturday, and the shopkeeper asked specifically for cash
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
    If only this debate was a far thing.
    Alas, it seems to be noteworthy.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,157

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    Aaaaaand we're off.
    Is it dime to call a copper?
    It's more we've got two people shilling for the cashless society.
    If only this debate was a far thing.
    It has been note-d
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
  • Options
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Vaguely on topic, Blackman is right.

    Constitutional theory is about 100 years behind the reality and we could really do with a modern-day Bagehot to point out that actually, yes, the people are sovereign.

    1. The principle that parliament should be elected by and is accountable to the (adult) population of the country is unchallenged, bar fringe cases.

    2. Parliament may exercise sovereignty on behalf of the people but this is not the same as actually being sovereign in its own right. Legal sovereignty is not the same as the enduring political reality that underpins constitutional practice.

    3. The principle that first-order political questions should be settled by the people themselves through referendums - in other words, that parliament doesn't have the authority or legitimacy to decide those questions for itself - is now a constitutional convention. (This is not the same as saying that all referendums involve first-order political questions).

    4. The nature of the Parliament Act, Salisbury Convention and 'mandates' in general point to the people being the fundamental source of sovereignty.

    I take your point, but it seems to me that you are arguing in effect that sovereignty of 'people' or of 'parliament' amount to the same thing. The problem with the 'people' idea is that it is not recognisably cashable in terms of governance except through what parliament does. 'People' don't have legislating power (even through referendums). Perhaps 'the sovereignty of parliament is the means by which that of the people is effected' might be the best we can do.

    'Sovereignty of people' is an expression which smacks slightly of the sub-optimal elements of the French revolution, for all people are equal but when the shouting starts some tend to be more equal than others; and it also invites the cynical question: Who, whom?
    I don't think that's quite what I'm saying. Go back 200 years and there was a very clear sense in which parliament was apart from 'the people', and in which 'the mob' had a semi-legitimate role in the system as an expression of the politically excluded (all male, naturally, but still ...). Parliament was, however, still very much sovereign, irrespective of its democratic deficiencies (as we would now see them), perhaps even because of them.

    That has all gone. I'd argue that parliamentary sovereignty is now nothing more than the *expression* of the deeper sovereignty of the people. That while, for reasons of practical process, parliament has to embody the people's sovereignty, it nonetheless only holds that temporarily on trust rather than it being innate, hence why it feels it essential to refer questions like Brexit, Scottish independence or the GFA back to the people and to be bound by the decision - because to do otherwise would be to create a crisis of legitimacy. Such a crisis could not exist were parliament genuinely sovereign in practice as well as theory.
    I agree with all you say; whether I come to same conclusion from the agreed facts I am less sure. Universal suffrage + conventions about referendums has changed the structure of the playing field; I think my own conclusion is that this increases accountability in good ways but that the supremacy of parliament in the Burkean sense of it being entrusted to do and enact its best even if the people at that moment disagreed, prevails.

    Having said that both people and parliament are being tested perhaps to destruction by the Rwanda bill drafting. The fact that courts have uniquely the task of telling parliament the meaning of what it has done in the light of the law as a whole is also of the highest importance. People massively underestimate the powers that the courts hold in reserve for this purpose for the simple reason they have never had to use them. Yet.
    Yes, I wouldn't go so far as to argue that parliament no longer has a representative role or that the people have a right to dictate opinion on day-to-day issues. Burke remains right on that. However, I don't see that as being in conflict with the principle that the people now hold ultimate sovereignty in the country, providing that we carefully define how that can be legitimately expressed.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215
    Scott_xP said:

    in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.

    I bought something on Saturday, and the shopkeeper asked specifically for cash
    Why?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500

    Scott_xP said:

    in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.

    I bought something on Saturday, and the shopkeeper asked specifically for cash
    Why?
    Who knows, but maybe hiding transactions, or avoiding the fees for card machines.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    edited December 2023

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    That wasn't quite their aim. I quote:

    We have set two goals for the war: to eliminate Hamas by destroying its military and governing capabilities and to do everything possible to bring our hostages at home," announced Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as Israel expanded its ground operations in Gaza.

    As soon as they flattened and reoccupied Gaza City the first was achieved. Although Hamas may claim increased support in the Gaza Strip it is now, effectively, ruling a desert. Attacking Khan Yunus therefore was not necessary if that was the real aim of the Israelis.

    As for the second, well, they've been killing their own hostages. Meanwhile almost all, if not all, the ones that have been released safely were released through a brokered ceasefire.

    Of course, Netanyahu's real aims in this operation were to use Hamas' attack as an excuse to destroy Gaza entirely, to strengthen his hold on the West Bank, and at the same time launch a major war to try and extend his stay in power which should have been abruptly terminated the moment Hamas showed how useless he really is.

    But that's not what he claimed, and therefore in going beyond it he's giving ammunition not just to Israel's enemies - who never wanted Hamas to be attacked - but to Israel's allies who are getting spooked by the bad headlines as he tries to achieve something other than what he said.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215
    edited December 2023

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    Scott_xP said:

    in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.

    I bought something on Saturday, and the shopkeeper asked specifically for cash
    Why?
    Who knows, but maybe hiding transactions, or avoiding the fees for card machines.
    The former most likely. A tax dodger perhaps? The cost of handling cash outstripped the cost of card machines a good while ago.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,500

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    The bank uses automated counting machines. Pour in a bucket of change and hey presto the money is in the Lions account. Simples. No poor soul in a pinstriped anything required.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542
    edited December 2023

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    I move that TSE be forced to eat 50 pineapple pizzas while watching Die Hard on Christmas Day for sparking this off.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,384
    edited December 2023

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Their official objective was the elimination of Hamas, and it's much too early to say whether it's been achieved (or is even achievable).

    But I agree entirely with your (b).
    They’ve killed c.7k kids who might have turned out to be Hamas I guess. It’s their brothers & sisters & cousins they need to worry about.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.

    I bought something on Saturday, and the shopkeeper asked specifically for cash
    Why?
    Who knows, but maybe hiding transactions, or avoiding the fees for card machines.
    The former most likely. A tax dodger perhaps? The cost of handling cash outstripped the cost of card machines a good while ago.
    Yaaawwwwwnnnnnnn
  • Options

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215
    edited December 2023

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    The bank uses automated counting machines. Pour in a bucket of change and hey presto the money is in the Lions account. Simples. No poor soul in a pinstriped anything required.
    Maybe so, but still a needless trip necessary to a building somewhere, while carrying substantial amounts of cash.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215
    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    I move that TSE be forced to eat 50 pineapple pizzas while watching Die Hard on Christmas Day for sparking this off.
    It’s a boring and one-sided ‘debate’, granted. I’ll leave it. People and businesses are voting with their (electronic) wallets - whatever we say on a forum won’t change that irrepressible trend.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,157

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    He only has to hold out for 13 months at the most, and Foreign Secretary has little in the way of success criteria nor invigilation. I think he'll cope.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Bad Enoch? Really? She has been utterly hopeless - near invisible - as business secretary. What on Earth has she done to deserve such a promotion? Her appeal is lost on me, as it is to many. The ultimate wallpaper politician.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,542

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Bad Enoch? Really? She has been utterly hopeless - near invisible - as business secretary. What on Earth has she done to deserve such a promotion? Her appeal is lost on me, as it is to many. The ultimate wallpaper politician.
    It would be an act of Kemikaze.

    Mind you, it would be hard to tell the difference from the current shitshow!
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Bad Enoch? Really? She has been utterly hopeless - near invisible - as business secretary. What on Earth has she done to deserve such a promotion? Her appeal is lost on me, as it is to many. The ultimate wallpaper politician.
    Long term favourite to be next leader of the Conservative Party. If Dave did walk, then who plugs the gap if not Badenoch?
    It’s so logical it’s obvious.
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I'm just going by what the Beeb's saying :)
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,049
    algarkirk said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    This seems a very trivial issue both to run a rule breaching campaign about, and to have Ofcom enquiries about. Especially as there is zero prospect of cash being abolished in the foreseeable future, and no-one takes GB News seriously, and hardly anyone knows it exists.
    I would keep cash and abolish GB News.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,070
    Can anyone understand Sadiq Khan's strange volte face on sending vehicles to Ukraine?
  • Options

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Is that one of those novelty books?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Benefits-Brexit-Comprehensive-Analysis-1/dp/1789266769

    From a one star review;
    SCAM and CON. It's full of numbered blank pages, title pages as listed in the index and lots and lots of blank pages. I suspect all the other books done in that name are the same. I've purchased a lot of books in my time and I've requested the return of only two . . . ever . . . and this is the second one. This is not a spoiler. If it's a great fun gift then the fact that it is full of blank pages should be stated clearly in the purchase information rather than "man of few words". This makes it a scam and con rather than a joke. If you're a one click buyer then you will be scammed.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Bad Enoch? Really? She has been utterly hopeless - near invisible - as business secretary. What on Earth has she done to deserve such a promotion? Her appeal is lost on me, as it is to many. The ultimate wallpaper politician.
    Long term favourite to be next leader of the Conservative Party. If Dave did walk, then who plugs the gap if not Badenoch?
    It’s so logical it’s obvious.
    Is the nation’s most hopeless Secretary of State really the best the Tory Party can
    offer? Oh, hang on, I see your point.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
  • Options

    Can anyone understand Sadiq Khan's strange volte face on sending vehicles to Ukraine?

    Is it now on? The reason first given was a legal problem so presumably the lawyers have found a loophole.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,967

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
    One of my local MPs. Doesn't seem to be keen on Sunak. Indeed didn't seem too keen on Truss either. Safe seat though.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
    One of my local MPs. Doesn't seem to be keen on Sunak. Indeed didn't seem too keen on Truss either. Safe seat though.
    👍Nice part of the world. Rutland and the Vale of Belvoir have some great pubs and good links to Nottingham, which is a splendid city.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,668
    viewcode said:

    Well that's the next phase of the Marvel Universe fucked.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67727425

    IIRC, developments in Loki series 2 may make the requirements for multiple variants of Kang unnecessary. Given that Major's star is about to dramatically wane, it's not impossible to cut his character out entirely whilst we all pretend not to remember what the original plan was.
    I can't understand why they're still making these shit awful films.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,398
    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    I move that TSE be forced to eat 50 pineapple pizzas while watching Die Hard on Christmas Day for sparking this off.
    Should he wear a Radiohead T Shirt at the same time ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,100

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    DavidL said:

    Rishi would be smart to not fight the election on the Tory record.

    So that’s exactly what he’s going to do.

    Boasting about tax cuts when taxes are at a record high. Criticising Starmer about 100k illegal refugees when legal immigrants are nearly that a month

    What could go wrong?
    Rishi Sunak is a Labour plant? How can anyone be this dumb, I do not understand it.

    Immigration is the achilles heel of the Tories and yet he wants to make it his mission to highlight how bad it is. He is doing nothing about the migration he can control and then to make it worse, is highlighting how his party can't handle illegal migration either.

    It is honestly baffling - but just shows him to be a bit thick.
    If in doubt, return the basic principle that Sunak Is Crap At Politics. That is almost always the explanation for whatever the day's self-own happens to be.

    The principle needs a name, like Cookie's Law. Rishi's Razor?
    Sunak's Saw: 'No matter how badly a message can be presented Rishi Sunak will find a way to make it worse'.
    I was musing the other day about words matched with Prime Ministers.

    Fear. Thatcher.

    Respect. Brown.

    Horror. Truss.

    Pity. Sunak

    As a politician, to be pitied is worse than any other emotion...
    Won't argue with the others, but "Respect. Brown."?

    Really?

    A man who set the dogs of Hell on any rivals, and for years fought for the PMship, then when he got it, had f-all idea what to do with it? A man who fought hos rivals within Labour more strongly then he did his enemies outside?

    Nasty. That is the word that should be associated with Brown. Nasty.
    Brown did not "set the dogs of hell on any rivals" as most of them were included in his Cabinet.
    The idea that the main descriptive word that attaches to the conceot "Gordon Brown Prime Minister" is "respect" is... uniquely special

    I think "knob" and "risible twat"
    In 2005, Tories led with Vote Blair, Get Brown until they found Gordon was the more popular of the two.
    Yes, but then we did get Brown.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,076

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
    One of my local MPs. Doesn't seem to be keen on Sunak. Indeed didn't seem too keen on Truss either. Safe seat though.
    👍Nice part of the world. Rutland and the Vale of Belvoir have some great pubs and good links to Nottingham, which is a splendid city.
    Biggest ichthyosaur skeleton (as such) in the UK, too.

    https://www.palaeosoc.org/latest-news/the-rutland-ichthyosaur/
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
    One of my local MPs. Doesn't seem to be keen on Sunak. Indeed didn't seem too keen on Truss either. Safe seat though.
    👍Nice part of the world. Rutland and the Vale of Belvoir have some great pubs and good links to Nottingham, which is a splendid city.
    Lived there for a few months in the seventies. Used to stand on the terraces when Clough managed Forest. Haven't been for years but was thinking to take the family to the Robin Hood museum on our way North for Christmas. How is it?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,215

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    stodge said:

    Redfield & Wilton ends with a solid 18-point Labour lead. Compared to its first poll of 2023 on 2-3 January, Labour are down five, the Conservatives down three, the Liberal Democrats down one, the Greens up three and Reform up five. The Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref split tonight is 59-34 - at the beginning of the year it was 62-32 so not a lot of change in truth.

    59% is one of the lowest LLG scores for a while though. Lib Dems being down one is against the run of play for other pollsters.

    Labour are still scoring in the 40s. The whole Tory fightback narrative will of course kick into overdrive as soon as Labour get a polling score beginning with 3. They’ve got close a few times recently.
    Can’t read too much into one poll, but Labours war tanking is letting the LLG down.

    Tories can only have a fight back narrative with polling scores starting with 3 themselves. What’s interesting from Labour polling slump is Tories have their own malaise at same time, not benefiting from it.

    If Elder Statesman Lord Cameron is going to receive all the credit for the Tory flip flop on calling Israel to ceasefire, tonight’s politics hub on Sky was gushing in praise for him, then he must receive credit for saving Labours troubles on this at same time. Starmer and team kept within a micrometer of the government position on this, but the Tory letter from former ministers, remarks from Wallace, Cameron’s “sustained ceasefire” phrase today parroted by Sunak, is different in what way and language from the SNP and Labour left position 4 weeks ago?
    Obviously, I was in the loo and missed it, but the Gaza conflict has waged pretty fierce on a daily basis here on PB. Sunil and Roger versus just about everyone else? And thanks to David Cameron, Sunil and Roger are now winning.

    Conservative MPs sign letter calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Gaza conflict 
    https://news.sky.com/story/politics-latest-baroness-mone-ppe-labour-government-pandemic-transparency-12593360

    How is Sunak’s governments Damascene Conversion on Gaza conflict being reported in Europe and Rest of the world? Is Lord Cameron’s stock rising overseas too?

    What a contrast from Truss in the job!
    Quite a development in the UKs position on Israel’s SMO in Gaza is it not?

    So what is the difference in ceasefire rhetoric and Israel criticisms, from Conservative Party now compared with from SNP and Labour Left of 4 weeks ago? What has materially change in this time to justify the flip flop?

    Is it any coincidence the flip flop has been made now, after scrutiny and question asking has closed down, with attention shifting to the holidays?
    I think as much as anything else it's because (a) the Israelis have kept fighting after achieving their official objectives and (b) they've demonstrated they're shooting anything that moves. As usual. Which, even allowing for the fact that Hamas would make Vladimir Putin look mild mannered, Boris Johnson look honest and Chris Williamson look sane, has not done the credibility of the Israeli cause any favours whatsoever.
    Have they achieved their objectives? Lots of hostages stil held and has Hamas been destroyed?
    Israel has "gone beyond self-defence" and lost the moral authority in its war with Hamas, the chair of the Commons foreign affairs committee has said.
    Tory MP Alicia Kearns told the BBC she thinks Israel has broken international law and risks increasing support for Hamas among Palestinians.
    She said: "Bombs don't obliterate an ideology and neither can a stable state be constructed from oblivion."


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67745408
    Are you sure that’s Tory MP Alicia Kearns saying that, and not Rosena Allin-Khan or Jess Phillips as they resigned?
    I always misread Alicia Kearns as Alicia Keys, which gets quite confusing.
    One of my local MPs. Doesn't seem to be keen on Sunak. Indeed didn't seem too keen on Truss either. Safe seat though.
    👍Nice part of the world. Rutland and the Vale of Belvoir have some great pubs and good links to Nottingham, which is a splendid city.
    Lived there for a few months in the seventies. Used to stand on the terraces when Clough managed Forest. Haven't been for years but was thinking to take the family to the Robin Hood museum on our way North for Christmas. How is it?
    I’ve not been. I did (years ago) go to something similar to the Jorvik Viking Centre, where you went around a makeshift Sherwood Forest in a train.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,983

    viewcode said:

    Well that's the next phase of the Marvel Universe fucked.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-67727425

    IIRC, developments in Loki series 2 may make the requirements for multiple variants of Kang unnecessary. Given that Major's star is about to dramatically wane, it's not impossible to cut his character out entirely whilst we all pretend not to remember what the original plan was.
    I can't understand why they're still making these shit awful films.
    Have you ever heard of a thing called 'Money'?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Is that one of those novelty books?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Benefits-Brexit-Comprehensive-Analysis-1/dp/1789266769

    From a one star review;
    SCAM and CON. It's full of numbered blank pages, title pages as listed in the index and lots and lots of blank pages. I suspect all the other books done in that name are the same. I've purchased a lot of books in my time and I've requested the return of only two . . . ever . . . and this is the second one. This is not a spoiler. If it's a great fun gift then the fact that it is full of blank pages should be stated clearly in the purchase information rather than "man of few words". This makes it a scam and con rather than a joke. If you're a one click buyer then you will be scammed.
    The punchline is analysis shows 52% of people are one click buyers?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,070
    I see Stephen Fry has caused a Twitter meltdown because he's concerned about antisemitism. Going through the comments (so you don't have to) not one of them appears to be remotely sane. I'm sure there are a few bots among them but still it's depressing. I have to mention Martin O'Neill an academic from my local university who chose to make a class based criticism of Mr Fry this evening in between tweeting a Corbyn speech.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,262

    It’s been said before, but the UK has too few sunlight hours. London is bad enough, but heaven save us from, say, February in Ulster.

    SKS needs to get onto this.

    Just returned from a driving trip to NI. You have to get up early, and hope like hell for fair weather.



    (Antrim glens, from the coast road.)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,100
    Scott_xP said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I vaguely recall a proposal to store information in a digital format as optical data on microfiche.

    As long as the film isn't destroyed by fire, still readable well into the future as long as you understand the encoding scheme

    How long does the plastic last or remain readable? Genuine question.
    Don't know, but does it have to be plastic? Could it be glass?
    DNA is probably the best bet for long term storage. Good for tens of thousands of years, and has enormous capacity.
    But the technology to manage it reliably is a couple of years off still.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,252
    Cookie said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Sean_F said:

    Newsweek is saying Russia is being pounded like a dockside hooker. Is there any verification?

    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-artillery-systems-casualty-count-tanks-avdiivka-ukraine-1853110

    Russian casualties have hit 1,000 a day, quite frequently in recent weeks.
    I feel like the Putin-as-strategic-mastermind meme has been reappearing of late, but while he is certainly a formidable character the SMO remains a massive strategic error and a human catastrophe. He has already likely spent hundreds of thousands of Russian lives in the meatgrinder; the conflict may claim over a million deaths before it is over. And for what? A relatively small strip of land*, swathes of which will be uninhabitable for years.

    He vastly underestimated the level of opposition he would face. Now thousands die daily to save face. He himself may not live to see the reckoning, but it will come.



    *My belief is that Donbas and Crimea will be taken in the end, and become a part of Russia, as the price of peace.
    I can see why one might want to fight for Crimea - but AFAIUI, the Donbas is an almost relentless shithole. Imagine if that was all they ended up with? Extinguishing the flower of your nation's wealth for a dead and sullen coalfield.
    Apparently it has reserves of rare earth metals. So definitely not an an area to hand over to Russia.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,983
    Very off-topic - but I quite enjoyed this glimpse behind the curtains of old Holywood :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z5FVU34JMI

    Also somewhat reminds me of working in modern web development. Sadly.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,547

    Can anyone understand Sadiq Khan's strange volte face on sending vehicles to Ukraine?

    It's because he's a clueless dick.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666
    edited December 2023
    viewcode said:

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    He only has to hold out for 13 months at the most, and Foreign Secretary has little in the way of success criteria nor invigilation. I think he'll cope.
    I think Lord Cameron could quit early in the New Year. It might seem far fetched, but he hasn’t answered any of these difficult questions yet, and it may prove that he just can’t. What is difficult in coming back, for people like Blair and Cameron, is how much they can reveal about how they cashed in after number 10, without being run out of town. It’s different than what Dave called entitlement to a life before politics, because this is a period where doors opened because of the period in number 10.

    I scrawled on the pb restroom walls months ago over by the ballet shoe machine - I have placed £25 political bet at 40-1 on Claire Coutinho as next Tory leader. These odds might soon be history Sunak may just make her CoE to ensure first female Chancellor is Conservatives, but also to give his friend and protege hand up the greasy poll and put her in frame for top job. It’s more than just that, because when she is interviewed she is very spiky, a bit like George Osborne, so if not next leader Claire does have a career at top of the Conservative politics imo. The Conservatives can go into the next General Election with Claire as the Nations first female Chancellor and Kemi as the latest female Foreign Secretary.

    I guess this is a proper political betting post. First out the cabinet, next Chancellor of UK, next Foreign Sec.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,252

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    On my last two Avanti train journeys (to/from London), the shop was only taking cash - which visibly annoyed quite a few passengers hoping to buy some refreshments.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    On my last two Avanti train journeys (to/from London), the shop was only taking cash - which visibly annoyed quite a few passengers hoping to buy some refreshments.
    Cheaper to buy stuff at the station, cheaper still in the High Street - after travelling virtually the entire National Rail network, all I can says is "be prepared"!
  • Options
    Cookie said:

    Can anyone understand Sadiq Khan's strange volte face on sending vehicles to Ukraine?

    It's because he's a clueless dick.
    He's probably got Rishi Sunak advising him.
  • Options
    @MoonRabbit you sexy beast, please don't get banned again as we need multiple voices here.
  • Options

    Can anyone understand Sadiq Khan's strange volte face on sending vehicles to Ukraine?

    "Unfortunately, altering the Ulez scheme for the purpose of exporting vehicles to Ukraine is not possible within the current limits of the Greater London Authority Act," they said.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67737663
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,135
    Less than a year to go before this parliament expires.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Less than a year to go before this parliament expires.

    And the Tories - for good?

    Will we be toasting the end of the Tories this time next year?
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    At press gallery drinks in No 10 this evening, Rishi Sunak tells lobby journalists to look forward to a general election that “WILL be in 2024”

    Ruling out a January 2025 election, and suggesting he may already have a date in mind…

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1736845535103848876

    So that's me wrong, and tomorrow's thread sorted.
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    Andy_JS said:

    Less than a year to go before this parliament expires.

    A consummation devoutly to be wished.
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    At press gallery drinks in No 10 this evening, Rishi Sunak tells lobby journalists to look forward to a general election that “WILL be in 2024”

    Ruling out a January 2025 election, and suggesting he may already have a date in mind…

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1736845535103848876

    So that's me wrong, and tomorrow's thread sorted.

    2 May 2024. You heard it here first! 👍
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925

    ydoethur said:

    Night.

    GB News has been found in breach of impartiality rules over a “Don’t Kill Cash” campaign, marking its fifth reprimand by Ofcom this year.

    The regulator on Monday censured GB News over the branded campaign, which lobbied the Government to prevent the UK from becoming a cashless society.

    The campaign urged viewers to sign a petition calling for new legislation to protect the status of cash as legal tender and as a widely accepted means of payment until at least 2050.

    Ofcom opened six investigations into various GB News programmes relating to the campaign after receiving a number of complaints.

    In its first ruling relating to an episode of The Live Desk in July, the regulator concluded that GB News breached two parts of the broadcasting code on due impartiality.

    Ofcom said broadcasters were free to explore any issue, including the use of cash in society, and to encourage viewers to support certain campaigns.

    But it warned channels had to comply with impartiality rules on matters of political or industrial controversy or current public policy.

    These are designed to ensure that broadcasters cannot use their channels and stations to advance their own viewers.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/18/gb-news-campaign-save-cash-found-breach-impartiality-rules/

    What a crackpot campaign. Cash is pointless. The most wasteful, riskiest and most inconvenient form of payment there is. Beyond an ever dwindling bunch of oddball nostalgics and technophobes who live in the middle of nowhere, cash has fallen out of favour big style.
    So I help with the local Lions doing their Christmas collections. Last night we collected over £600 pounds in cash over three hours. Almost all houses had some cash to spare.

    After the pandemic we were genuinely concerned about the demise of cash. We needn’t have worried.
    SumUp does a great job and is super cheap to run. We adopted it at the rugby club I volunteer for and never looked back.
    We have it at our Cricket club. But on a collection night with 8 collectors? Do they all need a device? Our shuttle it between them? Sounds like a faff. People giving a few coins is so much easier.
    Except when people don’t have any cash on them, which is very frequently down here. I don’t see the stuff from one month to the next - in fact an ever growing number of businesses don’t accept it, such is it’s unpopularity and inconvenience.
    That is not the experience of Trowbridge (over the last week and a half). It’s possible that there is more chance of some odd cash at home than out and about, but it’s not inconvenient.
    It’s highly inconvenient. You have to convert it from digital money then physical go somewhere to withdraw it. Just so some poor soul in a pinstriped skirt can count it in a bank and convert it back to electronic
    money. A futile exercise.
    I move that TSE be forced to eat 50 pineapple pizzas while watching Die Hard on Christmas Day for sparking this off.
    It’s a boring and one-sided ‘debate’, granted. I’ll leave it. People and businesses are voting with their (electronic) wallets - whatever we say on a forum won’t change that irrepressible trend.
    Widely reported this month (BBC & FT) that cash transactions increased this year for the first time in years. Not sure why you are so hung up on the issue, the sensible thing to do is have more than one option to pay for things rather than be totally dependent on one. Cash can still often be the quickest and most convenient way to pay for things.

    When a company does some work in our house I pay the bill to the company usually electronically but tip the workers in cash if they have done a great job. It would not be possible to do that without cash. There is a great singer that performs in our town centre, loads of people give him money, all cash. He's hardly going to stop singing to process an electronic payment even if he could is he? Our car was unexpectedly out of action and a young guy did a round trip of about 30 miles to bring our dog back from the groomers - I gave him money for his petrol and to thank him, quick and easy. Can't think how I could have thanked him without cash. What would you have done in those situations. Not give anybody anything I assume.
  • Options

    At press gallery drinks in No 10 this evening, Rishi Sunak tells lobby journalists to look forward to a general election that “WILL be in 2024”

    Ruling out a January 2025 election, and suggesting he may already have a date in mind…

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1736845535103848876

    So that's me wrong, and tomorrow's thread sorted.

    2 May 2024. You heard it here first! 👍
    Pubman is back, all the old favourites
  • Options

    At press gallery drinks in No 10 this evening, Rishi Sunak tells lobby journalists to look forward to a general election that “WILL be in 2024”

    Ruling out a January 2025 election, and suggesting he may already have a date in mind…

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1736845535103848876

    So that's me wrong, and tomorrow's thread sorted.

    2 May 2024. You heard it here first! 👍
    Pubman is back, all the old favourites
    We need all the old favourites here for the Election!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,215

    I am delighted that none of you have disagreed with my observation in the header that David Cameron is awesome.

    Lord Cameron has dodged missed his scheduled parliamentary scrutiny on premise of a funeral a junior official could have attended.

    Does he simply not have answers to the inevitable questions yet?

    Foreign secretary David Cameron is under pressure to “come clean” on the sources of his wealth after the latest government data release revealed little about his personal fortune.
    Lord Cameron and the Rishi Sunak government were accused of a “cover-up” after transparency documents showed that the cabinet minister holds his financial interests in a so-called blind trust.

    Onlookers will also be hoping for some scrutiny of Lord Cameron’s relationship with China since leaving Downing Street in 2016, which has raised eyebrows as more details emerge around his involvement with the country and his lobbying activities.

    Despite Lord Cameron’s assurances he’s now a believer in Brexit, last night Rishi Sunak joked at a drinks reception of Tory MPs that he’s planning on giving his foreign secretary “a government pamphlet on the benefits of Brexit” for Christmas. Sir John Redwood demanded Lord Cameron now make clear he believes in Brexit, tweeting he should “measure that he supports the 2019 manifesto to get Brexit done”.
    He said: “He needs to set out how proud he is of the UK now we are free of EU law and taxes."


    How long can Lord Cameron keep hiding from scrutiny? Could it come to a point he may say to Rishi, he’d rather back out the job than go through all the flamin hoops of scrutiny, so it becomes a short tenure in the role and goes to Kemi Badenoch?
    Bad Enoch? Really? She has been utterly hopeless - near invisible - as business secretary. What on Earth has she done to deserve such a promotion? Her appeal is lost on me, as it is to many. The ultimate wallpaper politician.
    Long term favourite to be next leader of the Conservative Party. If Dave did walk, then who plugs the gap if not Badenoch?
    It’s so logical it’s obvious.
    Steve Barclay
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,957
    edited December 2023
    Hmmm. This doesn't look small. 3km fissure, very large plumes.

    "Not a tourist eruption" they say. Lava flowing in all directions.

    I suppose the question for us is: how much SO2?

    Edit:
    View from Reykjavik, which is some distance away:

  • Options

    At press gallery drinks in No 10 this evening, Rishi Sunak tells lobby journalists to look forward to a general election that “WILL be in 2024”

    Ruling out a January 2025 election, and suggesting he may already have a date in mind…

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1736845535103848876

    So that's me wrong, and tomorrow's thread sorted.

    2 May 2024. You heard it here first! 👍
    Pubman is back, all the old favourites
    We need all the old favourites here for the Election!
    I'll see myself out then :(


    (joke)
This discussion has been closed.