Last time I looked with the back of an envelope at the debt situation of Thames Water it looked to me as if something is going to pop and that much of the south east will be managing without water for a few years. It was obviously unsustainable.
As water is both regulated and (obvs) essential, it doesn't take much imagination to work out who is going to pay for any necessary salvage work after all its investors have taken their losses.
I guess it takes a special skill to bust an outfit that has a monopoly of an essential commodity but it can be done with effort.
If only Thames Water can hang on for a year, we can pin this failure on Starmer (assuming he wins).
If Sunak really is frit and bins off plan A (2nd May) for a later election, we're bound to see similar bullshittery with regards to councils.
A deadly combination of a Tory government who slashed direct funding to zero and Tory councils encouraged to invest in property to fill the cash black hole has so many of them teetering on the edge. We're going to see another bonfire of Tory councils in May, so any that go pop in June onwards will definitely be the fault of the new Labour / LD administrations who have obviously broken the finances on day 1.
They tried that approach this year and were roundly laughed at. But will do so again given the chance because the party sneeringly assumes everyone is a moron.
It's quite a shrewd strategy from Rishi. Lose all your councils in order for the Conservatives not to be blamed for local authority fiscal mismanagement. Dick Dastardly and Muttley quality genius.
Some comment on why MIC don't have an eighth group for 'assholes'. It strikes me they already have two (possibly three) of their seven groups representing that widespread demographic.
Also, given we're British and like to maintain standards, it's important to note that we have 'arseholes' rather than 'assholes'.
Streaming platform Twitch has been forced to abandon a loosening of its policy on sexual content because it led to a flood of AI-generated nudity. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67747949
Twitch decided to allow drawings of nudes but AI drawings are indistinguishable from the real thing.
Of course, the whole thing could just be a marketing ploy by Big AI.
Quite striking statistic at the end, that of eight MPs currently under investigation for breaches of parliamentary standards, seven are Tories and the eighth was elected as a Tory. I know there are more Tory MPs than any other party but that still seems a disproportionate amount of (alleged) bad behaviour.
Your counting quantity, but what is the quality? For example is "significant damage to the reputation of the Commons and its members” merely sending Christmas Card using tax payer cash or a wrong logo?
And who is actually doing the grassing up? Would those around Starmer hesitate in grassing up Corbyn or those around him to the authorities, or similarly Sunak not deliberately encourage throw spaghetti at the wall investigation into Dorries or Boris or mir.i.am?
You haven’t the evidence here to sustain your smear on the Tories, all being guilty by association.
It’s also a sneaky dividing line to make Scots think they are hard done by
A below inflation rise isn’t great but sounds a lot better than a “real terms cut”.
The point is UK Government budgets do not provide funding for specific policy areas in Scotland such as the NHS. The Scottish Government is free to spend the money it receives from UK government as a result of the autumn statement however it likes.
But don't let that get in the way of abit of grievance mongering.
This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade
He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump
Ramaswamy non-mad? He's Liz Truss without the restraint, self-awareness or network of supporters, but with added conspiracy theories. Still, if you're far enough away from sanity yourself, he might look reasonable.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade
He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump
Well I was quite impressed and agree with everything you say, but then we get to the last minute and it turns out he is as mad as a box of frogs. I was expecting him to hug a bible and the American flag. Even having said that I still think your assessment is correct and that is a sad thing to say about the current GOP and the American nation.
He says Jan 6 was an “inside job”. He’s flirted with 9/11 conspiracy theories. He believes in Great Replacement Theory. He says the climate change “agenda” is a hoax.
He wants to end aid to Ukraine, keep Ukraine out of NATO, and leave Russia in control of parts of Ukraine.
And… and!… he’s a vegetarian.
To be fair, Jan 6th *was* an inside job. An insurrection backed by the actual President is pretty much Maximum Inside Job.
Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?
The only time I have worn a balaclava was when boating in mid-winter. I probably did look like a bank robber, but a narrowboat is such a rediculous choice of getaway vehicle, no one would have misaken me for one.
Which is why it is the perfect getaway vehicle. What cargo were you hauling?
Quite striking statistic at the end, that of eight MPs currently under investigation for breaches of parliamentary standards, seven are Tories and the eighth was elected as a Tory. I know there are more Tory MPs than any other party but that still seems a disproportionate amount of (alleged) bad behaviour.
Your counting quantity, but what is the quality? For example is "significant damage to the reputation of the Commons and its members” merely sending Christmas Card using tax payer cash or a wrong logo?
And who is actually doing the grassing up? Would those around Starmer hesitate in grassing up Corbyn or those around him to the authorities, or similarly Sunak not deliberately encourage throw spaghetti at the wall investigation into Dorries or Boris or mir.i.am?
You haven’t the evidence here to sustain your smear on the Tories, all being guilty by association.
Duggie and former Labour voter Lady Mone are on Rishi's radar according to the Graun. Rishi is viewing PPE corruption "very seriously". Will the Shadow Chancellor of the day, Annaliese Dodds please explain how she let PPE fast-track money get so out of control?
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
And yet I move around the country and beyond, ceaselessly, and rarely encounter issues
My last few Heathrow experiences have been nearly seamless
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
They all supported BoZo
QED
Perhaps it's just my imagination, but Tory corruption does seem to have gone off the charts since Boris became leader. Did his very presence and behaviour just obliterate the Tory moral landscape?
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
They all supported BoZo
QED
Perhaps it's just my imagination, but Tory corruption does seem to have gone off the charts since Boris became leader. Did his very presence and behaviour just obliterate the Tory moral landscape?
The thing is, sensible people said Johnson would be crap and would ruin the country long after he'd been chucked out and yet we were told to shut up because of Brexit. This country is doomed.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
Leafleting in Blaby (South Leicesetershire) today - local county council by-election Thursday. Chap bringing in his bins - "Which Party is it for?' "The Liberal Democrats" -" Oh that's OK, as long as not the Conservatives" "Who do you usually vote or?" We used to live in a Labour area but now we vote tactically for the Lib Dems"
First time I've seen the full countdown from Maryam; only seen the middle finger before. Full countdown is even better - it should definitely be considered to replace the current BBC News countdown to the headlines
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
Quite striking statistic at the end, that of eight MPs currently under investigation for breaches of parliamentary standards, seven are Tories and the eighth was elected as a Tory. I know there are more Tory MPs than any other party but that still seems a disproportionate amount of (alleged) bad behaviour.
Your counting quantity, but what is the quality? For example is "significant damage to the reputation of the Commons and its members” merely sending Christmas Card using tax payer cash or a wrong logo?
And who is actually doing the grassing up? Would those around Starmer hesitate in grassing up Corbyn or those around him to the authorities, or similarly Sunak not deliberately encourage throw spaghetti at the wall investigation into Dorries or Boris or mir.i.am?
You haven’t the evidence here to sustain your smear on the Tories, all being guilty by association.
Oh she's back again, neigh neigh neigh!
Blow Groan Nicker Sigh.
And I am right. This is politics, you are more likely to get snitched up by rivals on your own side. Told Sunak he is wrong last week, dobbed up by someone this week,it’s hardly rocket science.
You’ve no idea what significant damage to the reputation of the Commons and its members actually means, have you?
Some comment on why MIC don't have an eighth group for 'assholes'. It strikes me they already have two (possibly three) of their seven groups representing that widespread demographic.
Respectfully disagree. The 7 groups, it seems to me, are characterised by their essential decency and diverse forms of idealism. This by no means captures the extent of human diversity in our national life. See above.
Isn't MIC's "thing" to kind of see the best in people and resist a them and us mentality? So the groups aren't called "smug home counties Tory", "sneering Islington wanker" or "knuckle dragging racist" etc.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
I sold some big knobbly off road SUV tyres on eBay a few weeks ago to some bloke who buys old 4x4s, loads them with tents and blankets and generators and drives them to Ukraine. He was due to pick them up at 4pm from my house, 15 miles outside Leeds, after going from London by train to South Wales to pick up a knackered 4x4 he’d got off eBay, then driving up to me to pick his tyres up.
He was extremely apologetic when he arrived at half 8 because the trains getting him from London to Wales were utterly dog shit.
A few months ago I was escorted off Leeds train station after saying Northern Rail’s services are a ‘fucking disgrace’. I’d had a couple of beers but was far from pissed, wasn’t being aggressive, didn’t direct the comment at anyone in particular, but because I’d dropped the f-bomb under some rail act from 1876 or something due to my foul language I was marched off the station by a bemused transport police copper.
I was annoyed because we’d arrived for a train, admittedly a bit late, and I’d got to the door just as they were blowing the whistle and asked the guard to hold it for 30 seconds so my mate could catch up. Nope, no sirree, they couldn’t possibly do that. Targets to meet, the guard told me, they have to leave bang on time. So the train pulled away. Platform guy couldn’t meet my eye.
Ah well, shit happens, we’ll get the next (last) one. Half hour wait on a cold platform. Train due, not arrived. Delayed 5 mins. Train still doesn’t turn up, now delayed 10 mins. Then the train is abruptly cancelled.
That’s Northern Rail for you. A fucking disgrace. Don’t tell them that though they’ll have a copper on you straight away marching you off the station.
I feel sorry for the poor station staff who have to deal with pissed off punters like me all day every day. Still, at least London’s got its new Elizabeth Line and good buses, so that’s ok.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
Sir Keir pledged to nationalise everything when he was running for leader, so won’t be long now…
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
Please don't accuse me of dishonesty. How is StateCo not British Rail?
One of the issues with problems is that they dominate the conversation. Its a bit like the perception of how safe the country is. Arguably the country has never been safer, but the dominance of bad news on 24 hour news skews peoples perceptions.
How many people go onto social media to say "Train on time again today"?
I suspect you are unfortunate to have to use a very poor service.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
The plane is flown by Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. With an English accent. No wonder it crashed.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
The plane is flown by Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. With an English accent. No wonder it crashed.
You would have thought that schizophrenia or multiple personalities would have been weeded out during training.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
No, I'm relieved you're back. I just wish you had let CHB out at the same time. Were you locked in together?
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
I sold some big knobbly off road SUV tyres on eBay a few weeks ago to some bloke who buys old 4x4s, loads them with tents and blankets and generators and drives them to Ukraine. He was due to pick them up at 4pm from my house, 15 miles outside Leeds, after going from London by train to South Wales to pick up a knackered 4x4 he’d got off eBay, then driving up to me to pick his tyres up.
He was extremely apologetic when he arrived at half 8 because the trains getting him from London to Wales were utterly dog shit.
A few months ago I was escorted off Leeds train station after saying Northern Rail’s services are a ‘fucking disgrace’. I’d had a couple of beers but was far from pissed, wasn’t being aggressive, didn’t direct the comment at anyone in particular, but because I’d dropped the f-bomb under some rail act from 1876 or something due to my foul language I was marched off the station by a bemused transport police copper.
I was annoyed because we’d arrived for a train, admittedly a bit late, and I’d got to the door just as they were blowing the whistle and asked the guard to hold it for 30 seconds so my mate could catch up. Nope, no sirree, they couldn’t possibly do that. Targets to meet, the guard told me, they have to leave bang on time. So the train pulled away. Platform guy couldn’t meet my eye.
Ah well, shit happens, we’ll get the next (last) one. Half hour wait on a cold platform. Train due, not arrived. Delayed 5 mins. Train still doesn’t turn up, now delayed 10 mins. Then the train is abruptly cancelled.
That’s Northern Rail for you. A fucking disgrace. Don’t tell them that though they’ll have a copper on you straight away marching you off the station.
I feel sorry for the poor station staff who have to deal with pissed off punters like me all day every day. Still, at least London’s got its new Elizabeth Line and good buses, so that’s ok.
Must be due another govt u-turn on either HS2 or Heathrow soon.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade
He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump
Ramaswamy non-mad? He's Liz Truss without the restraint, self-awareness or network of supporters, but with added conspiracy theories. Still, if you're far enough away from sanity yourself, he might look reasonable.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
I’ll see that three months and raise you…. two years (twice)
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I think its worth comparing passenger numbers now against, say 1984/5 (686 million) to 2022/23 (1348 million). (And still a bit lower than pre pandemic). So the rail service has doubled its journeys. The rolling stock has for the most part been modernised (BR was not good for that). Many trains have wifi, for instance.
I am not on top of the stats for lateness, but I wonder how late is considered late? If I drive 30 mins to work (which I do) I will often be 5 minutes late due to traffic or other events. I don't get to complain, or get a partial refund on the petrol. Rail is complex and badly needs increased capacity (just as the NHS needs more beds to combat the winter issues - running at 97% occupancy is ok some of the time...)
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
Actually, rail is the one remaining pledge on nationalisation that remains from Sir Keir’s 2020 leadership election campaign
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
You can tell how old that film is if they were still saying they'd "get you there".
I presume the Red Sea thing is going to tank the economy?
BP pauses all Red Sea shipments after rebel attacks ... Analysts suggested that if other large oil firms follow suit, there may be some impact on crude prices in Europe and the Mediterranean. Brent crude, the international benchmark for oil prices, edged up to $77.17 per barrel.
Gregory Brew, an oil historian and analyst at Eurasia Group, said: "Right now it's unclear how significant the impact will be, though if more shipping companies divert their traffic, and if the disruption lasts more than a week or two, prices are likely to climb further." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67748605
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
Likewise. I'd a train cancelled last month, after 100 or so passengers had boarded.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
"...The inquiry falls under paragraph 17 of the updated 2019 code of conduct for MPs, which says: “Members shall never undertake any action which would cause significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons as a whole, or of its members generally.”
The announcement does not give any further details. Investigations by the commissioner, Daniel Greenberg, are kept confidential until the inquiry is concluded. Those under investigation are barred from discussing the allegations.
Greenberg is investigating eight MPs, with the inquiries dating back to June. Seven are Conservatives, including Eleanor Laing, the deputy speaker, and Bernard Jenkin. The eighth is the former Tory Andrew Bridgen, who now sits for Reclaim..."
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
They were in Gloucestershire.
Lateness was also a knock-on problem because they would hold connections, meaning any delay would spread through the whole system. Heck, as early as the 1960s they (BR themselves) made a documentary about delays called 'The Pain Train.'
The first chapter of Christian Wolmar's polemic 'Broken Rail' is called 'Was BR as bad as its sandwiches?' To which the answer is no. In its later years, the sandwiches were actually pretty good. It was the service that was shit.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I think its worth comparing passenger numbers now against, say 1984/5 (686 million) to 2022/23 (1348 million). (And still a bit lower than pre pandemic). So the rail service has doubled its journeys. The rolling stock has for the most part been modernised (BR was not good for that). Many trains have wifi, for instance.
I am not on top of the stats for lateness, but I wonder how late is considered late? If I drive 30 mins to work (which I do) I will often be 5 minutes late due to traffic or other events. I don't get to complain, or get a partial refund on the petrol. Rail is complex and badly needs increased capacity (just as the NHS needs more beds to combat the winter issues - running at 97% occupancy is ok some of the time...)
If I remember correctly, it's something like 25% refund for 15mins plus, 50% for 30mins plus, full refund for 60mins plus. I stopped claiming about a year ago because my commute crosses franchises and they blames each other.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
Likewise. I'd a train cancelled last month, after 100 or so passengers had boarded.
If you want to hear a silly story:
I was waiting at Birmingham to catch the train for Hednesford.
There were three 2-car EMUs waiting at the platform. These would form two trains - one for Rugeley via Hednesford, and one for Northampton.
So - the staff decreed that the four carriages to the right would be going to Rugeley. And the two carriages on the left to Nottingham.
I decided to wait before boarding, in the hope they would realise the carriages nearest to Northampton had been allocated to Rugeley before trying to send the train off.
Fortunately, they did, and declared the four carriages to the left would be going to Rugeley.
Then somebody pointed out that actually, the allocation was four carriages to Northampton. So all the passengers in the middle two coaches for Rugeley had to move to the left.
And finally, when this had delayed us by 15 minutes, we moved off, and the first thing we got was an announcement: 'Due to the late departure of this service, this train will terminate at Hednesford.'
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
No, I'm relieved you're back. I just wish you had let CHB out at the same time. Were you locked in together?
No I was in the rest room on my own. I was grateful for PBers popping in from time to time.
Viewcode burst in last week with a rant about trains, and later apologised because they had meant to rant it on the main stage.
Moments like that did break up the monotony a bit 🙂
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
Also, quite a lot of the improvements in services have been by squeezing at the margins of capacity. Which makes for a more attractive timetable and generates a better return on fixed assets. But reduces the resilience if something goes wrong.
Eventually, you just have to do the big expensive increase in capacity. Sorry, Rishi.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
Well, to be very open and honest, and fair to the admins, I may have contrived to have locked myself in the PB toilet actually.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I think its worth comparing passenger numbers now against, say 1984/5 (686 million) to 2022/23 (1348 million). (And still a bit lower than pre pandemic). So the rail service has doubled its journeys. The rolling stock has for the most part been modernised (BR was not good for that). Many trains have wifi, for instance.
I am not on top of the stats for lateness, but I wonder how late is considered late? If I drive 30 mins to work (which I do) I will often be 5 minutes late due to traffic or other events. I don't get to complain, or get a partial refund on the petrol. Rail is complex and badly needs increased capacity (just as the NHS needs more beds to combat the winter issues - running at 97% occupancy is ok some of the time...)
If I remember correctly, it's something like 25% refund for 15mins plus, 50% for 30mins plus, full refund for 60mins plus. I stopped claiming about a year ago because my commute crosses franchises and they blames each other.
Some only pay for 30 mins plus (I've no idea why it varies). I know this as I was unable to claim for a 25 minute delay on Cross Country into Birmingham, but did just scrape the claim on the way back with a 30 minute (exactly) delay.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
These days I work on the basis that something I am relying on - train being on time, GP appointment, bins being emptied etc - will not be available when I need it. That way, if it happens seamlessly I get a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately, pleasant surprises are few and far between but expecting the worse does stop you from tearing your hair out.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
Also, quite a lot of the improvements in services have been by squeezing at the margins of capacity. Which makes for a more attractive timetable and generates a better return on fixed assets. But reduces the resilience if something goes wrong.
Eventually, you just have to do the big expensive increase in capacity. Sorry, Rishi.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
Well, to be very open and honest, and fair to the admins, I may have contrived to have locked myself in the PB toilet actually.
And so the rest of us had nowhere to go for three months.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
Well, to be very open and honest, and fair to the admins, I may have contrived to have locked myself in the PB toilet actually.
And so the rest of us had nowhere to go for three months.
Now it’s all over, it’s the stuff of legend, the rabbit who locked herself in the PB toilets for three months, haunting the place like Moaning Myrtle - and most PBers didn’t even know PB had toilets!
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
A goodish argument for Time For A Change. In 2010, the accumulation of problems with the nation was full of things that right wing minds could solve better than left wing ones- that's why they had accumulated. The converse was true in 1997 and now.
As for what works best in rail, the TfL concession model seems to work well on, say, the Overground. Network specified by the state, run by a private contractor, who gets rewarded for service quality as specified by the state. Seems to reward the right things quickly, whereas making ticket sales the mechanism ought to work but isn't really doing it.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
No, I'm relieved you're back. I just wish you had let CHB out at the same time. Were you locked in together?
What happens in the PB Toilets stays in the PB Toilets
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
What I remember about BR is that the rolling stock was really old, so trains were very uncomfortable, cold, leaky, had disgusting toilets etc - but I don't remember the level of delays and cancellations that you get now.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
Do you even bother to read the thread before splatting your out of date posts in here?
Are you back to being a Tory shill, Rampant?
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
You preferred me locked in the PB toilet for three months 🥹
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
PB can do that?? Lock you up for 3 months? Wow.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
Well, to be very open and honest, and fair to the admins, I may have contrived to have locked myself in the PB toilet actually.
And so the rest of us had nowhere to go for three months.
In fairness. the women's toilets hardly get used anyway.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
What I remember about BR is that the rolling stock was really old, so trains were very uncomfortable, cold, leaky, had disgusting toilets etc - but I don't remember the level of delays and cancellations that you get now.
The trains - or, to be fair, some of them - were improving very considerably in the later decades of BR, though it did depend where you were. IC125 were great, Pacers not so much ...
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
BR was so bad that “We’re Getting There” was actually their advert slogan. Read that whichever way you like.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
These days I work on the basis that something I am relying on - train being on time, GP appointment, bins being emptied etc - will not be available when I need it. That way, if it happens seamlessly I get a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately, pleasant surprises are few and far between but expecting the worse does stop you from tearing your hair out.
Getting a bit of a Labour's plan for government vibe.
If Wes doesn't continue with the Tories cutting out NHS waste bullshit, that will be a pleasant surprise.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
Also, quite a lot of the improvements in services have been by squeezing at the margins of capacity. Which makes for a more attractive timetable and generates a better return on fixed assets. But reduces the resilience if something goes wrong.
Eventually, you just have to do the big expensive increase in capacity. Sorry, Rishi.
See also Heathrow Airport on a foggy day, the A303 past Stonehenge on a summer Friday evening…
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
What I remember about BR is that the rolling stock was really old, so trains were very uncomfortable, cold, leaky, had disgusting toilets etc - but I don't remember the level of delays and cancellations that you get now.
The trains - or, to be fair, some of them - were improving very considerably in the later decades of BR, though it did depend where you were. IC125 were great, Pacers not so much ...
In all honesty, I quite liked the decrepit rolling stock (I'm talking pre-pacer here - I'm thinking particularly of the suburban trains running into Manchester in the 80s). I quite liked that old-train smell. And I liked being trusted to open my own doors, and being able to hit the ground running when I arrived (or running up the steps to catch a train and clambering in the door just as it was setting off). But I do remember reliability being pretty poor.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
These days I work on the basis that something I am relying on - train being on time, GP appointment, bins being emptied etc - will not be available when I need it. That way, if it happens seamlessly I get a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately, pleasant surprises are few and far between but expecting the worse does stop you from tearing your hair out.
Getting a bit of a Labour's plan for government vibe.
If Wes doesn't continue with the Tories cutting out NHS waste bullshit, that will be a pleasant surprise.
Thought he was slightly below par this morning on Today to be honest. The idea that you fix the NHS's capacity problems by some of the non dom additional tax (which may or may not ever exist) was frankly ridiculous. It is less than 1% at a time when the NHS is subject to particular inflationary pressures. He really did not address the continuing problems with the junior doctors strike and their demands. He would not commit himself to what effect this additional capacity was likely to have on the waiting list.
It came across as well meaning but woolly. Or possibly realistic in acknowledging that not a lot was going to change. Take your pick.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
These days I work on the basis that something I am relying on - train being on time, GP appointment, bins being emptied etc - will not be available when I need it. That way, if it happens seamlessly I get a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately, pleasant surprises are few and far between but expecting the worse does stop you from tearing your hair out.
Getting a bit of a Labour's plan for government vibe.
If Wes doesn't continue with the Tories cutting out NHS waste bullshit, that will be a pleasant surprise.
Labour are prepping for arriving in power and discovering the cupboard contains nothing but IOUs but even then that comment is tackless
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
What I remember about BR is that the rolling stock was really old, so trains were very uncomfortable, cold, leaky, had disgusting toilets etc - but I don't remember the level of delays and cancellations that you get now.
The trains - or, to be fair, some of them - were improving very considerably in the later decades of BR, though it did depend where you were. IC125 were great, Pacers not so much ...
In all honesty, I quite liked the decrepit rolling stock (I'm talking pre-pacer here - I'm thinking particularly of the suburban trains running into Manchester in the 80s). I quite liked that old-train smell. And I liked being trusted to open my own doors, and being able to hit the ground running when I arrived (or running up the steps to catch a train and clambering in the door just as it was setting off). But I do remember reliability being pretty poor.
I work from home but the other week got on the 1637 from Liverpool St to Braintree and it can’t have been 1/5th full - surprised me that it could be profitable to run.
Branimir Nestorović, a Robert F. Kennedy Jr./Vivek Ramaswamy-esque conspiracy theorist, has been elected to the Serbian National Assembly, with 13 seats in the 250-seat assembly.
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
Miriam Cates is under investigation by parliament’s standards watchdog for actions “causing significant damage” to the reputation of the House of Commons.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
The Tory 2019 intake have to be we the worst intake in about 100 years.
Wrong. A lot of them are brilliant actually, because they are young so set their conservatism in the world as it is now, with all new sets of challenges to Conservative values this modern world has. Sunak is a bit like this too with his concern for machine learning. Starmer, the old fogey, doesn’t even know what machine learning is, he never mentions it.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
A nice article. I absolutely love that Bryan Robson was on standby every single week. Also that Beaumont and Botham and their families used to go on holiday together.
I used to love AQOS when I was small. It was telly - a quiz show, even - I could watch with my parents on almost equal terms. I played rugby, so always supported Bill Beaumont, but obviously Willie Carson was ace too, and so was Emlyn Hughes.
For my tastes, it went downhill a bit after David Coleman left. I have nothing against Sue Barker, Ally McCoist, Matt Dawson or Phil Tufnell, but it always felt a bit like it was trying hard to find the laughs, rather than letting them come naturally. It didn't have to be hilarious, just pleasant and agreeable.
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
They even have a dig at British Rail in that summer film, Die Hard 2, where the British stewardess of the doomed British plane tells her passenger “don’t worry madam, like British Railways we will be late but we will get you there.” That’s how much of a joke British train systems were way back.
BR was so bad that “We’re Getting There” was actually their advert slogan. Read that whichever way you like.
And referenced by a flight attendant in Die Hard 2
If British trains were cheap and shit nobody would mind.
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Too much baggage in the UK from British Rail. If you are too young to remember it, google YouTube comedy sketches about BR.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
You clearly don't use the railways and a StateCo is not advocating British Rail. You are dishonest to say so.
I use the railways, and my perception is that it is no worse than I remember it being under BR.
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
The refrain "no worse than it was under BR" is oft repeated on here. Regardless of whether it's true, shouldn't it be the case that, regardless of ownership, trains should be a lot better than they were under BR? Since the railways were privatised thirty years ago, there have been huge advances in technology that should have led to a more reliable, and probably faster, service. But they haven't.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I would say, talking from personal experience, that the service on the railways, with the possible exception of their fare charging systems which are a shambles, is massively better than it was under BR. Which is not to say that it is not still crap, of course.
As an oldie, my memory differs. BR had many problems, but lateness and, particularly, cancellations were not that common. Nowadays, on many lines, they are everyday occurrences. And it's cancellations and lateness that piss people off more than any other defect.
I agree with you. Connections between lines were held much better. Now, it's **** the passenger who arrives on a train operated by another company.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
What I remember about BR is that the rolling stock was really old, so trains were very uncomfortable, cold, leaky, had disgusting toilets etc - but I don't remember the level of delays and cancellations that you get now.
The trains - or, to be fair, some of them - were improving very considerably in the later decades of BR, though it did depend where you were. IC125 were great, Pacers not so much ...
In all honesty, I quite liked the decrepit rolling stock (I'm talking pre-pacer here - I'm thinking particularly of the suburban trains running into Manchester in the 80s). I quite liked that old-train smell. And I liked being trusted to open my own doors, and being able to hit the ground running when I arrived (or running up the steps to catch a train and clambering in the door just as it was setting off). But I do remember reliability being pretty poor.
I work from home but the other week got on the 1637 from Liverpool St to Braintree and it can’t have been 1/5th full - surprised me that it could be profitable to run.
I'm surprised it was that empty at almost home time - but commuter lines are a bugger to run. The easiest way to run a railway is to run the same units up and down the line all day. But demand is wildly, wildly uneven. So you end up carrying a lot of empty air about most of the day so your units are big enough at peak times. Lines which carry more leisure traffic are rather easier.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67747949
Twitch decided to allow drawings of nudes but AI drawings are indistinguishable from the real thing.
Of course, the whole thing could just be a marketing ploy by Big AI.
You haven’t the evidence here to sustain your smear on the Tories, all being guilty by association.
I was going to Heathrow airport yesterday. They shuttled the passengers between two opposite trains three times. Then the 15 minute service took 30 minutes. I arrived at Heathrow nearly an hour later than expected.
A well-dressed man next to me spoke to his companion. "This country," he said. "I know," she said. "This country," he said. "Yes, I know," she said.
"This is another example of how it's in the bin. Nothing works," he said. "£40 to not get to the airport on time."
A couple of weeks ago, I had a sales manager in town from abroad. They were trying to get to midlands for a meeting with a potential supplier. Despite arriving at Kings Cross an hour early, all the trains that morning were cancelled. They ended up taking that and a few other calls that day from a hotel room in London. "What's the point?" They asked me. "You can't actually get anywhere in this country." They make a quarterly trip. They'll try again in Q1 2024. The tickets were >£300 for a day trip of <300 miles return. The company is fighting for a refund. They don't know when it will come. Until it does, they've ended up extended the train company a £300 loan for a sales call that will be delayed at least three months.
Finally, another colleague was recently in London and missed a meeting because of road traffic. They ended up paying £30 in cab fare to miss the meeting. "What's the point?" They asked after taking the call from a hotel lobby.
When I read productivity numbers, I think of all these delays. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. At the minimum, we pay premium prices to move around the country in hours, weeks, and months instead of minutes, hours, and days.</I>
If British trains were expensive and reliable nobody would mind.
We have the worst of both worlds, the Tories have failed us all with their nonsensical policies.
GB Railways is such a disaster it's dead before it even arrived. The private companies have had their day, time for a proper Swiss-style StateCo.
Duggie and former Labour voter Lady Mone are on Rishi's radar according to the Graun. Rishi is viewing PPE corruption "very seriously". Will the Shadow Chancellor of the day, Annaliese Dodds please explain how she let PPE fast-track money get so out of control?
The Prime Minister needs answers, and fast!
My last few Heathrow experiences have been nearly seamless
🤷🏼♂️
But let me tell you, the country is done. It's time for a change.
The investigation into the Conservative MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge was opened on December 14.
Cates, who took her South Yorkshire constituency from Labour in 2019, is being investigated for “actions causing significant damage to the reputation of the House as a whole, or of its members generally”.
QED
Well donkeys actually.
I don't believe that privatisation is the problem. And actually the rail service is not that bad - certain companies and routes skew the overall perception.
At the end of the day, the left believes that the state is best to run everything while the right thinks it should all be private. The reality will be in the middle. Private companies that need to compete for custom works well, in the main. One of the issues with rail is that you rarely get a choice of provider for a trip. How you resolve that is the million dollar question.
I preferred you when you weren't. xxx.
And I am right. This is politics, you are more likely to get snitched up by rivals on your own side. Told Sunak he is wrong last week, dobbed up by someone this week,it’s hardly rocket science.
You’ve no idea what significant damage to the reputation of the Commons and its members actually means, have you?
He was extremely apologetic when he arrived at half 8 because the trains getting him from London to Wales were utterly dog shit.
A few months ago I was escorted off Leeds train station after saying Northern Rail’s services are a ‘fucking disgrace’. I’d had a couple of beers but was far from pissed, wasn’t being aggressive, didn’t direct the comment at anyone in particular, but because I’d dropped the f-bomb under some rail act from 1876 or something due to my foul language I was marched off the station by a bemused transport police copper.
I was annoyed because we’d arrived for a train, admittedly a bit late, and I’d got to the door just as they were blowing the whistle and asked the guard to hold it for 30 seconds so my mate could catch up. Nope, no sirree, they couldn’t possibly do that. Targets to meet, the guard told me, they have to leave bang on time. So the train pulled away. Platform guy couldn’t meet my eye.
Ah well, shit happens, we’ll get the next (last) one. Half hour wait on a cold platform. Train due, not arrived. Delayed 5 mins. Train still doesn’t
turn up, now delayed 10 mins. Then the train is abruptly cancelled.
That’s Northern Rail for you. A fucking disgrace. Don’t tell them that though they’ll have a copper on you straight
away marching you off the station.
I feel sorry for the poor station staff who have to deal with pissed off punters like me all day every day. Still, at least London’s got its new Elizabeth Line and good buses, so that’s ok.
It’s not Tory shrill, it’s just fair play. Out of the Five Families who are the Tories anyway?
Crazy. I thought the govt were tackling this ?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/new-build-ilkeston-housing-estate-is-horrendous-but-now-we-re-being-charged-more-to-live-there/ar-AA1lFcWM?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=43178fac44554e598de0a2bb48fc6f7d&ei=20
There is lots to fix. But to say it's all down to who owns it is madness. It's both refusing to acknowledge what BR was actually like and looking for simple solutions to complex problems.
One of the issues with problems is that they dominate the conversation. Its a bit like the perception of how safe the country is. Arguably the country has never been safer, but the dominance of bad news on 24 hour news skews peoples perceptions.
How many people go onto social media to say "Train on time again today"?
I suspect you are unfortunate to have to use a very poor service.
Can I just put on the record that I have always thought Radiohead were a fabulous combo.
So while I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's telling that we tolerate (or not) a service that hasn't improved in 30 years.
I am not on top of the stats for lateness, but I wonder how late is considered late? If I drive 30 mins to work (which I do) I will often be 5 minutes late due to traffic or other events. I don't get to complain, or get a partial refund on the petrol. Rail is complex and badly needs increased capacity (just as the NHS needs more beds to combat the winter issues - running at 97% occupancy is ok some of the time...)
https://www.cityam.com/labour-re-commits-to-nationalising-rail-if-it-wins-the-next-election/
...
Analysts suggested that if other large oil firms follow suit, there may be some impact on crude prices in Europe and the Mediterranean. Brent crude, the international benchmark for oil prices, edged up to $77.17 per barrel.
Gregory Brew, an oil historian and analyst at Eurasia Group, said: "Right now it's unclear how significant the impact will be, though if more shipping companies divert their traffic, and if the disruption lasts more than a week or two, prices are likely to climb further."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67748605
I'd a train cancelled last month, after 100 or so passengers had boarded.
The announcement does not give any further details. Investigations by the commissioner, Daniel Greenberg, are kept confidential until the inquiry is concluded. Those under investigation are barred from discussing the allegations.
Greenberg is investigating eight MPs, with the inquiries dating back to June. Seven are Conservatives, including Eleanor Laing, the deputy speaker, and Bernard Jenkin. The eighth is the former Tory Andrew Bridgen, who now sits for Reclaim..."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/18/tory-mp-miriam-cates-investigated-standards-watchdog
Lateness was also a knock-on problem because they would hold connections, meaning any delay would spread through the whole system. Heck, as early as the 1960s they (BR themselves) made a documentary about delays called 'The Pain Train.'
The first chapter of Christian Wolmar's polemic 'Broken Rail' is called 'Was BR as bad as its sandwiches?' To which the answer is no. In its later years, the sandwiches were actually pretty good. It was the service that was shit.
PS Also they had spare coaches and spare trains - and could and did run them when needed, rather than overcrowd the usual train setup.
https://www.thetrainline.com/trains/great-britain/delay-repay
I was waiting at Birmingham to catch the train for Hednesford.
There were three 2-car EMUs waiting at the platform. These would form two trains - one for Rugeley via Hednesford, and one for Northampton.
So - the staff decreed that the four carriages to the right would be going to Rugeley. And the two carriages on the left to Nottingham.
I decided to wait before boarding, in the hope they would realise the carriages nearest to Northampton had been allocated to Rugeley before trying to send the train off.
Fortunately, they did, and declared the four carriages to the left would be going to Rugeley.
Then somebody pointed out that actually, the allocation was four carriages to Northampton. So all the passengers in the middle two coaches for Rugeley had to move to the left.
And finally, when this had delayed us by 15 minutes, we moved off, and the first thing we got was an announcement: 'Due to the late departure of this service, this train will terminate at Hednesford.'
Viewcode burst in last week with a rant about trains, and later apologised because they had meant to rant it on the main stage.
Moments like that did break up the monotony a bit 🙂
Eventually, you just have to do the big expensive increase in capacity. Sorry, Rishi.
It was 50% for the 30 mins plus delay.
Arguably mir.i.am and Freddie and their New Conservatives are the true Conservative voice right now, as defined by it is views lefties won’t like to hear, so utterly mainstream in rest of UK if you are not a lefty.
the New Social Covenant Unit (the NSCU) exists to share an old-new set of ideas in British politics. We believe that the primary purpose of public policy should be to strengthen families, communities, and the nation: the associations that make individuals happy, safe and free. Given the unique threats and opportunities of our age we need a ‘new social covenant’: a restatement and adaptation of these ideas for the 21st century. We exist to promote ideas and policy for a more local, more connected, more sustainable life for all.
Traditional values to tackle the problems of the modern setting isn’t’ it? This one of the five families is easily the most thoughtful. This is Conservatism actual Conservatives can feel at home with isn’t it?
https://www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/community/
As for what works best in rail, the TfL concession model seems to work well on, say, the Overground. Network specified by the state, run by a private contractor, who gets rewarded for service quality as specified by the state. Seems to reward the right things quickly, whereas making ticket sales the mechanism ought to work but isn't really doing it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12876721/Russian-warplane-shot-Putin-surface-air-missiles.html
A few more cockups like that for Christmas, please Mr Putin.
If Wes doesn't continue with the Tories cutting out NHS waste bullshit, that will be a pleasant surprise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Bell_(politician)
But I do remember reliability being pretty poor.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prince-george-school-eton-marlborough-college-william-kate-bv0dj7ffk (£££)
The Times has its finger on the pulse.
It came across as well meaning but woolly. Or possibly realistic in acknowledging that not a lot was going to change. Take your pick.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/dec/18/a-question-of-sport-paddy-mcguinness-ratings
The longer the Tories are in power, the longer patients will wait.
I used to love AQOS when I was small. It was telly - a quiz show, even - I could watch with my parents on almost equal terms. I played rugby, so always supported Bill Beaumont, but obviously Willie Carson was ace too, and so was Emlyn Hughes.
For my tastes, it went downhill a bit after David Coleman left. I have nothing against Sue Barker, Ally McCoist, Matt Dawson or Phil Tufnell, but it always felt a bit like it was trying hard to find the laughs, rather than letting them come naturally. It didn't have to be hilarious, just pleasant and agreeable.
NEW THREAD
The easiest way to run a railway is to run the same units up and down the line all day. But demand is wildly, wildly uneven. So you end up carrying a lot of empty air about most of the day so your units are big enough at peak times.
Lines which carry more leisure traffic are rather easier.