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Too many tweets, Part I – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited December 2023 in General
Too many tweets, Part I – politicalbetting.com

While every group thought that it was more inappropriate than appropriate, it's interesting that Loyal Nationals – the segment that best reflects 2019 switchers in places like the Red Wall, were more likely than average to say inappropriate. pic.twitter.com/ekf6XtSLGH

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Test to see if the comments work.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    Hmmmm...

    "Yemen Houthi Leader Muhammad Al-Bukhaiti:

    “If Saudi Arabia and the Emirates are part of any coalition to attack Yemen, we will not leave an oil field or a gas field in Saudi Arabia or the #Emirates, and we will target all ships transporting oil.”"

    https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1736506022250869141

    Iran's really going for it, aren't they?
  • Hmmmm...

    "Yemen Houthi Leader Muhammad Al-Bukhaiti:

    “If Saudi Arabia and the Emirates are part of any coalition to attack Yemen, we will not leave an oil field or a gas field in Saudi Arabia or the #Emirates, and we will target all ships transporting oil.”"

    https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1736506022250869141

    Iran's really going for it, aren't they?

    He's talking Shi'ite.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Regarding the header, who are the 600k or so deluded souls that actually follow the account ?
  • Nigelb said:

    Regarding the header, who are the 600k or so deluded souls that actually follow the account ?

    Political obsessives, journos, and saddos.
  • An absolute corker of the misleading poll genre coming thru doors in St Clements this w/e. Would make a Lib Dem blush! For the record Labour won easily in May. Independent 2nd and Green Party a distant 3rd.



    https://twitter.com/MartinStott65/status/1736495065822871588/photo/1
  • Intentionally or not, CCHQ is undermining the Prime Minister, and Rishi does not have the political nous to see it. The tweets, the Boris cos-play at PMQs, the helicopters, the Greek row, small boats and so on.
  • Demonising vaping is prompting young people to switch to tobacco as mixed messaging suggests they are equally as dangerous
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12871883/Vape-scare-stories-lead-rise-smoking.html

    Unintended consequences, but hardly unpredictable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388
    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the header, who are the 600k or so deluded souls that actually follow the account ?

    A considerable number will be fake or troll accounts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Chile’s new draft constitution — which threatened to enshrine an extremist neoliberal model in the country’s constitution, extending Pinochet’s original vision to include provisions against abortion and same-sex marriage — has been overwhelmingly rejected.
    https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1736536277099430210
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the header, who are the 600k or so deluded souls that actually follow the account ?

    A considerable number will be fake or troll accounts.
    I thought Musky Baby was going to sort out fake and troll accounts? ;)
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866

    Demonising vaping is prompting young people to switch to tobacco as mixed messaging suggests they are equally as dangerous
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12871883/Vape-scare-stories-lead-rise-smoking.html

    Unintended consequences, but hardly unpredictable.

    Twin A mentioned exactly that last night.
    Twin B then mentioned that she had been in the loo somewhere in Leeds and vapes were available from the tampon vending machine...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388

    Intentionally or not, CCHQ is undermining the Prime Minister, and Rishi does not have the political nous to see it. The tweets, the Boris cos-play at PMQs, the helicopters, the Greek row, small boats and so on.

    Mostly it just shows how ham-fisted the whole Tory set up is.

    If you are going to use a tagline and image like that tweet, then you want it uncredited and targeted. Dirty Social Media campaigns are about motivating the base and demotivating the opponents base by sowing discord.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the header, who are the 600k or so deluded souls that actually follow the account ?

    A considerable number will be fake or troll accounts.
    I thought Musky Baby was going to sort out fake and troll accounts? ;)
    Depends what you mean by 'sort'.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929

    Demonising vaping is prompting young people to switch to tobacco as mixed messaging suggests they are equally as dangerous
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12871883/Vape-scare-stories-lead-rise-smoking.html

    Unintended consequences, but hardly unpredictable.

    What a shock !!!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    I agree with the thrust of this article.
    If Hungary were applying fur EU membership today, it would be firmly rejected.

    The EU’s capitulation to the Hungarian PM’s blackmail is a grave mistake. He seeks to reshape the bloc in his image
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/17/viktor-orban-hungary-eu-ukraine-vladimir-putin
    ...This sets a perilous precedent: extortionists always come back to demand more. What is the EU’s gameplan? Are leaders willing to hand out huge sums of money and send Orbán out of the room whenever a unanimous decision looms?

    The fact that just hours after absenting himself from the negotiations on accession, Orbán used his veto anyway to block €50bn in funding for Ukraine shows the wiles he is capable of. The accession process for any new member state is long and complex, and requires unanimity every step of the way. EU leaders are shockingly naive if they believe they have secured lasting support in exchange for their money. Orbán is likely to repeat this tactic, again and again, as he leverages Ukraine to unblock more money for his regime...

    ..The timing of the EU’s concession to Orbán is particularly disastrous, coinciding with Hungary’s “sovereignty protection bill” – a shockingly oppressive piece of legislation threatening journalists and civil society organisations with jail if they participate in international funding programmes. Its sole aim is to suppress dissent, muzzle independent media and quash opposition parties. The commission’s decision practically rubber-stamps this law and fails to muster a grain of solidarity with remaining independent voices in Hungary.

  • Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929

    Hmmmm...

    "Yemen Houthi Leader Muhammad Al-Bukhaiti:

    “If Saudi Arabia and the Emirates are part of any coalition to attack Yemen, we will not leave an oil field or a gas field in Saudi Arabia or the #Emirates, and we will target all ships transporting oil.”"

    https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1736506022250869141

    Iran's really going for it, aren't they?


    If they were "really going for it" this would have already happened by now and Hezbollah would have declared Jihad in the North of Israel.
  • The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.
  • Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    No face no case as my son says.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
  • FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,000
    CCHQ is indeed run by adolescents fresh from Durham’s Conservative Students Society; it’s the ascendancy of Phil, Peter Mannion’s inept spad from TTOI.

    Meanwhile The Express screams that the evil small boats gangs will be smashed (again, apparently).

    Am I wrong, or was it not our own Conservative government that played a major part in clearing the field for the European migration crisis with the disastrous Libya intervention? I suspect the Tories aren’t the ‘evil gang’ about to be smashed though, despite CCHQ’s efforts to self-immolate with cringe memes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    OT. The Israeli's under Netanyahu are committing hara-kiri in plain sight. Their reputation world wide has been trashed. Perhaps one of the best reasons to think twice before supporting a proportional voting system when you have such a factional population.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Haley gains on Trump in latest New Hampshire poll
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4364473-haley-gains-on-trump-in-latest-new-hampshire-poll/
    ..The latest CBS News/YouGov poll released Sunday found that Haley has emerged as a top alternative to the former president, consolidating much of the non-Trump vote. Among likely GOP primary voters, 29 percent say they would vote for the former South Carolina governor, 15 points behind Trump.
    Eleven percent say they would vote for GOP Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, and 10 percent say they would vote for former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie. No other candidate received more than 10 percent...


  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,464
    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Trump notes he was indicted more times than the ‘great’ Al Capone
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4365075-trump-notes-he-was-indicted-more-times-than-the-great-al-capone/

    Capone died with syphilitic dementia. Just saying.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045
    Ghedebrav said:

    CCHQ is indeed run by adolescents fresh from Durham’s Conservative Students Society; it’s the ascendancy of Phil, Peter Mannion’s inept spad from TTOI.

    Meanwhile The Express screams that the evil small boats gangs will be smashed (again, apparently).

    Am I wrong, or was it not our own Conservative government that played a major part in clearing the field for the European migration crisis with the disastrous Libya intervention? I suspect the Tories aren’t the ‘evil gang’ about to be smashed though, despite CCHQ’s efforts to self-immolate with cringe memes.

    Harsh.

    To adolescents at Durham CSS.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    An absolute corker of the misleading poll genre coming thru doors in St Clements this w/e. Would make a Lib Dem blush! For the record Labour won easily in May. Independent 2nd and Green Party a distant 3rd.



    https://twitter.com/MartinStott65/status/1736495065822871588/photo/1

    I'm surprised you missed the important point.

    The leaflet has an apostrophe. The Tweet doesn't.

    Which one is correct?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045
    edited December 2023
    Slobodan Milosovic's legacy is alive and well in the former Yugoslavia, as one of his former ministers wins Serbian elections that were not rigged, oh no, not in any way whatsoever:

    Serbia's Vucic claims big election victory for party
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67742032
  • Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    That's the polite word, yes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Wearing a Balaclava is not acceptable in Cannock. It's actually considered a Crimea.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,956

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Give it a few years and there won't be any banks left to rob.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Alternatively, he's a narcissistic asshole with a small fraction of Trump's ability to persuade the gullible.

    The polls tend to support my view over yours.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    That's the polite word, yes.
    Surely 'individualism' is the polite word?

    It's an irregular verb. I am individualist, you are eccentric, he* is round the twist.

    *I inserted the name of a certain poster here, but decided that actually there is nothing wrong in knapping flints into dildos for a living while burbling about AI and buying voice activated plugs to brighten up your life, er, flat.
  • Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Yes, hiking in Winter sort of works.

    Not too many banks to rob or people to terrorise out on the hills and moors, and if it's cold it sort of makes sense.

    I'd still take it off when talking to someone though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Give it a few years and there won't be any banks left to rob.
    Even Cannock is losing them now. Barclays to shut in February.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Wearing a Balaclava is not acceptable in Cannock. It's actually considered a Crimea.
    As opposed to Baklava, which is just nuts, honey.
    Well, it is Azov now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,865

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Not a bad thing to have! Harmless eccentricity is welcome.

    And good morning everyone; sadly looks to be clouding a bit here.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929

    FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.

    During the Brexit debate he did a similar series of articles, taking the pulse in the red wall effectively.

    He was roundly derided at the time for it.

    However, he was right.

    I would not dismiss him lightly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,464
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Alternatively, he's a narcissistic asshole with a small fraction of Trump's ability to persuade the gullible.

    The polls tend to support my view over yours.
    No, he’s just too young and too Indian - for now

    But the raw political talent is obvious. He has that charm. Sure, he’s very self confident and a little vain - so was Blair

    I can see him as a GOP prez candidate in the next decade - and winning
  • Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Come to think of it, children did used to wear balaclavas to school but I've not seen this in years; decades, even.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,765

    Hmmmm...

    "Yemen Houthi Leader Muhammad Al-Bukhaiti:

    “If Saudi Arabia and the Emirates are part of any coalition to attack Yemen, we will not leave an oil field or a gas field in Saudi Arabia or the #Emirates, and we will target all ships transporting oil.”"

    https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1736506022250869141

    Iran's really going for it, aren't they?

    :open_mouth:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Give it a few years and there won't be any banks left to rob.
    And in any case they won't have cash...
  • FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.

    I thought the same. A lazy "screw it this can be an article" job.

    But...

    ...the polls suggest he is right!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    Roger said:

    OT. The Israeli's under Netanyahu are committing hara-kiri in plain sight. Their reputation world wide has been trashed. Perhaps one of the best reasons to think twice before supporting a proportional voting system when you have such a factional population.

    I could agree with your first two sentences, but not the third. A majoritarian voting system would deliver an Israeli parliament that was just as divided, perhaps even more so. What Israel perhaps needs is a presidential system, elected by AV or a 2-round system.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045

    Roger said:

    OT. The Israeli's under Netanyahu are committing hara-kiri in plain sight. Their reputation world wide has been trashed. Perhaps one of the best reasons to think twice before supporting a proportional voting system when you have such a factional population.

    I could agree with your first two sentences, but not the third. A majoritarian voting system would deliver an Israeli parliament that was just as divided, perhaps even more so. What Israel perhaps needs is a presidential system, elected by AV or a 2-round system.
    That would give Netanyahu - or Bennett - even more power, and make it more difficult to get rid of him.

    As the Americans have just rather graphically demonstrated, executive presidential systems work only when you have passably sane and/or moderate people elected to them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388

    FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.

    I thought the same. A lazy "screw it this can be an article" job.

    But...

    ...the polls suggest he is right!
    In particular he thinks that most blue wall seats will be Tory holds, but that it is one step closer to the cliff edge in terms of numbers of Tory seats.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,800
    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Heard him once and he is a total fanny. Faker than a three bob bit.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    O/t:

    Just seen a red rainbow; only a partial one due to cloud. I've only ever seen the phenomenon once before.
  • The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,464

    Roger said:

    OT. The Israeli's under Netanyahu are committing hara-kiri in plain sight. Their reputation world wide has been trashed. Perhaps one of the best reasons to think twice before supporting a proportional voting system when you have such a factional population.

    I could agree with your first two sentences, but not the third. A majoritarian voting system would deliver an Israeli parliament that was just as divided, perhaps even more so. What Israel perhaps needs is a presidential system, elected by AV or a 2-round system.
    Polls show that a majority of Israelis want the IDF to go EVEN HARDER on Gaza

    This is cross party support for extreme revenge on hamas

    Israel has changed since Oct 7
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Alternatively, he's a narcissistic asshole with a small fraction of Trump's ability to persuade the gullible.

    The polls tend to support my view over yours.
    No, he’s just too young and too Indian - for now

    But the raw political talent is obvious. He has that charm. Sure, he’s very self confident and a little vain - so was Blair

    I can see him as a GOP prez candidate in the next decade - and winning
    Yes, being totally bonkers is not a problem for a potential POTUS. Indeed it is often an advantage.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,765
    Well if the British aren’t going to work with Rolls-Royce on their SMR project, they’ll find somewhere else that will…

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/17/rolls-royce-talks-build-mini-nukes-ukraine/
  • O/t:

    Just seen a red rainbow; only a partial one due to cloud. I've only ever seen the phenomenon once before.

    Photo or it didn't happen, preferably with dog for scale and a half-empty glass of beer.
  • Taz said:

    FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.

    During the Brexit debate he did a similar series of articles, taking the pulse in the red wall effectively.

    He was roundly derided at the time for it.

    However, he was right.

    I would not dismiss him lightly.
    Except, he's not taking the pulse, is he? He's just riding on a train and pontificating inside his head.

    I think he's just a boilerplate Guardianista and looks exactly what AI would draw one as.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,388

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    OT. The Israeli's under Netanyahu are committing hara-kiri in plain sight. Their reputation world wide has been trashed. Perhaps one of the best reasons to think twice before supporting a proportional voting system when you have such a factional population.

    I could agree with your first two sentences, but not the third. A majoritarian voting system would deliver an Israeli parliament that was just as divided, perhaps even more so. What Israel perhaps needs is a presidential system, elected by AV or a 2-round system.
    That would give Netanyahu - or Bennett - even more power, and make it more difficult to get rid of him.

    As the Americans have just rather graphically demonstrated, executive presidential systems work only when you have passably sane and/or moderate people elected to them.
    Democracy is indeed stretched by the extremism in both the US and Israeli electorates.

    I can’t see Bennett winning under a presidential system, and Lapid or Gantz might have won in recent elections. If Bibi had won, corrupt though he is, a Bibi less dependent on the coalition support of extreme nationalists might not be as bad.

    Israel kind of tried the system in 1996, 1999 and 2001, although it retained a very strong legislature. Bibi scraped a win by the narrowest of margins in 1996 and then lost resoundingly to Ehud Barak in 1999. Ariel Sharon won in 2001.
  • FPT - that article from John Harris is hilarious.

    He basically goes on a long train ride to Reading reflecting on all his prejudices about Brexit, immigration and the Tories throughout (but without talking to anyone) and then basically exchanges a classically British, "huh, typical!" at the end of it that he thinks validates the lot.

    Sublime.

    I thought the same. A lazy "screw it this can be an article" job.

    But...

    ...the polls suggest he is right!
    For once, I agree with you!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Alternatively, he's a narcissistic asshole with a small fraction of Trump's ability to persuade the gullible.

    The polls tend to support my view over yours.
    No, he’s just too young and too Indian - for now

    But the raw political talent is obvious. He has that charm. Sure, he’s very self confident and a little vain - so was Blair

    I can see him as a GOP prez candidate in the next decade - and winning
    He's at least consistent, as Christie noted.

    "...This is the fourth debate that you would be voted, in the first 20 minutes, as the most obnoxious blowhard in America. .."
  • ydoethur said:

    An absolute corker of the misleading poll genre coming thru doors in St Clements this w/e. Would make a Lib Dem blush! For the record Labour won easily in May. Independent 2nd and Green Party a distant 3rd.



    https://twitter.com/MartinStott65/status/1736495065822871588/photo/1

    I'm surprised you missed the important point.

    The leaflet has an apostrophe. The Tweet doesn't.

    Which one is correct?
    The leaflet is correct.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,865

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    And the Conservatives haven’t spread discord and argument over the past few years?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772

    O/t:

    Just seen a red rainbow; only a partial one due to cloud. I've only ever seen the phenomenon once before.

    Photo or it didn't happen, preferably with dog for scale and a half-empty glass of beer.
    Not a piccie of it at its best, but the only one I have that will be hard to geolocate, given it was taken from my front door.


  • The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    I think elements of all three of your arguments are at work. What might have seemed cheeky before is just grating now. Also, Vote Leave managed to portray itself as the anti establishment choice - hilarious when you consider who was funding it but there you go. I think it's fundamentally impossible for the Conservative Party to portray itself as an anti establishment force. So this kind of media content just looks trite and inauthentic coming from them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Heard him once and he is a total fanny. Faker than a three bob bit.
    I listened to him on the Merryn Somerset-Webb podcast last Spring and he was plugging a book on woke capitalism. Quite eloquent but struck me as a little bit bonkers.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,309
    Taz said:
    It’s actually, in its original EU clothing, environmentalism dressed up as protection (the UK CBAM is simply a copy paste in order to prevent us losing all our remaining heavy industry).

    The EU implemented its emissions trading scheme many years ago. After a faltering start - prices were too low and too many credits issued - it was very successful and an important driver of emissions reductions. But industrial carbon cuts started slowing as businesses exported their emissions to dirtier countries. But politically it was becoming difficult to squeeze EU manufacturers further. So the CBAM comes along and is more politically palatable because it’s dressed up in the language of protectionism.

    Still, it will influence emissions policy and behaviour in the rest of the world. So any protectionist impact will be temporary but hopefully the environmental impact will be permanent.

  • Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,045
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Whether you despise @VivekGRamaswamy or embrace his beliefs, he’s extremely good at this. Simultaneously folksy, charming, smart, lucid, and expressive. Doesn’t talk down; reminds me of a young Blair. Could easily be president within a decade

    https://x.com/adamscrabble/status/1736453257587822834?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    He is the holy grail for the GOP. The young articulate persuasive non-mad Trump

    Heard him once and he is a total fanny. Faker than a three bob bit.
    I listened to him on the Merryn Somerset-Webb podcast last Spring and he was plugging a book on woke capitalism. Quite eloquent but struck me as a little bit bonkers.
    Then he has a snowflake's chance in hell of being Rep candidate.

    They're not too good with candidates that are only a little bit bonkers.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    You say all that, but Boris was very firmly against Russia wrt Ukraine; and the Conservatives under May were very strong over Salisbury. Compared to the Labour leader at the time, who seemed to want to blame anyone but Russia.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,309

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    The Russians will struggle to know how best to influence the next election. There is no obvious pro-Kremlin party, unlike in the US or much of Europe. Something we can be proud and relieved about. I assume they will look to magnify Reform UK messaging as well as anything encouraging overall disillusionment.

    Their best bet at the moment is probably stirring the pot on Israel & Gaza and encouraging those new Islamist parties.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866
    Sandpit said:

    Well if the British aren’t going to work with Rolls-Royce on their SMR project, they’ll find somewhere else that will…

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/17/rolls-royce-talks-build-mini-nukes-ukraine/

    The lack of support here is one of the worst things about this government.

    A market where there will only be 2 winners and we haven’t done everything we can to ensure Rolls Royce was one of them
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,455

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Use caution but try: Gardening in cold weather in your own garden when not carrying a gun while living outside Gaza and the London area covered by the Met?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    Sandpit said:

    Well if the British aren’t going to work with Rolls-Royce on their SMR project, they’ll find somewhere else that will…

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/17/rolls-royce-talks-build-mini-nukes-ukraine/

    That will be interesting. The enrichment level of the fuel hasn’t been set yet. In the original submarine reactors they are related to, it’s HEU. Bomb grade.

    I’m trying to imagine the international reaction if the Ukrainians set up an enrichment plant of their own…
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited December 2023
    FPT

    Golly, Israel has fcuked up enough to turn PB pin-up chubby Ben Wallace against them.



    Can we look forward to an about turn from the ever more versatile Sir Keir if only not to be seen appearing to the right of Rishi?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,865
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    The Russians will struggle to know how best to influence the next election. There is no obvious pro-Kremlin party, unlike in the US or much of Europe. Something we can be proud and relieved about. I assume they will look to magnify Reform UK messaging as well as anything encouraging overall disillusionment.

    Their best bet at the moment is probably stirring the pot on Israel & Gaza and encouraging those new Islamist parties.
    While that’s true, there is a potential problem for Russia, given their Moslem minority. I suspect they’ll they’ll troll in favour of the Right of the Conservatives and Reform.
  • Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    Besides, in 2019, Johnson was just the front man. Everyone paying attention knew where the real power was planned to lie. (And did for a bit.) And he is rather more... pragmatic... about grovelling to the Kremlin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510
    The homes/migrants one is just confusing given the full throated nimbyism strategy based around promising to stop more housing.
  • Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    You say all that, but Boris was very firmly against Russia wrt Ukraine; and the Conservatives under May were very strong over Salisbury. Compared to the Labour leader at the time, who seemed to want to blame anyone but Russia.
    Jeremy Corbyn called for tighter sanctions than were enacted by Conservatives. Whether he did so as an alternative to war or as a cynical exercise to cut off Conservative funding is left as an exercise for the reader, but he did.

    Russia invaded Ukraine in 2021 and fully expected Ukraine to fall within days (remember the stories of officers taking dress uniforms). Two reasons Ukraine would not have been a factor in 2019.
  • Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Fishing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    You say all that, but Boris was very firmly against Russia wrt Ukraine; and the Conservatives under May were very strong over Salisbury. Compared to the Labour leader at the time, who seemed to want to blame anyone but Russia.
    Yes, I don't think think it can be argued to be as simplistic as people claim it was re Boris and Co.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well if the British aren’t going to work with Rolls-Royce on their SMR project, they’ll find somewhere else that will…

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/17/rolls-royce-talks-build-mini-nukes-ukraine/

    The lack of support here is one of the worst things about this government.

    A market where there will only be 2 winners and we haven’t done everything we can to ensure Rolls Royce was one of them
    Ukraine is also looking at the Holtec/Hyundai SMR.
    That's an interesting design as it's engineered to produce high pressure steam, so could operate as a drop in boiler replacement in a fossil fuel power station to utilise the existing generation assets.

  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 144
    edited December 2023

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    You say all that, but Boris was very firmly against Russia wrt Ukraine; and the Conservatives under May were very strong over Salisbury. Compared to the Labour leader at the time, who seemed to want to blame anyone but Russia.
    I agree with JosiasJessop on this. I think the idea that Corbyn would somehow have led a more stridently anti-Russian government than May or Johnson is not supported by the facts.

    If Russia did indeed want Johnson's Conservatives to win in 2019, they judged spectacularly poorly, as indicated by the respective responses from Johnson and Corbyn to the build up and aftermath of the invasion of Ukraine.

    Regarding the Russian attitude to Brexit specifically, I would not be suprised if efforts went into both supporting the Brexit campaign before the referendum, and the Rejoin/Remain campaign after the referendum - this would indeed cause the most prolongued disruption, and they appear to have encouraged both sides simultaneously in American protests before, so this would be nothing new.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,300
    kle4 said:

    The homes/migrants one is just confusing given the full throated nimbyism strategy based around promising to stop more housing.

    Yes, my initial reading was 'Labour will build new homes, but it won't help because they'll let in so many migrants'. To which I thought 'at least they're getting it half-right'. I've only just realised that wasn't the intended implication. Possibly because I don't recognise the person/ character SKS is being portrayed as. But I can't be the only one who doesn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,510

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Yes, hiking in Winter sort of works.

    Not too many banks to rob or people to terrorise out on the hills and moors, and if it's cold it sort of makes sense.

    I'd still take it off when talking to someone though.
    I camped out a lot whist doing the Pennine Way years ago. One cold morning, I got out of my tent and made my way towards the footbridge over the M62. Just before this there was a burger van in a layby, with a queue of hungry truckers waiting for food.

    I fancied a bacon sarnie, so I joined the end of the queue. This parted like the Red Sea, allowing me to go first. "Very kind of them," I thought. I got my grub and walked on.

    A couple of days later I met a couple of walkers who had been doing the trail behind me. They said they'd arrived at the burger van shortly after I left, and the truckers told them of this strange figure who came out of the mist, wearing a balaclava. The monster stamped his feet whilst in the queue, and they decided to let him go first so he'd leave soon.

    Yes, I frighten truckers!
    The baggage of the garment is such that even on very cold days no one trusts or feels safe around someone wearing a balaclava.

    In this ban happy era I'm surprised they can still be purchased rather than be labelled some kind of criminal or terroristic apparatus.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041

    Sandpit said:

    Well if the British aren’t going to work with Rolls-Royce on their SMR project, they’ll find somewhere else that will…

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/17/rolls-royce-talks-build-mini-nukes-ukraine/

    That will be interesting. The enrichment level of the fuel hasn’t been set yet. In the original submarine reactors they are related to, it’s HEU. Bomb grade.

    I’m trying to imagine the international reaction if the Ukrainians set up an enrichment plant of their own…
    Most of the SMR designs use low enriched fuel in order to be easily exportable without the more serious proliferation issues.
  • Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    The homes/migrants one is just confusing given the full throated nimbyism strategy based around promising to stop more housing.

    Yes, my initial reading was 'Labour will build new homes, but it won't help because they'll let in so many migrants'. To which I thought 'at least they're getting it half-right'. I've only just realised that wasn't the intended implication. Possibly because I don't recognise the person/ character SKS is being portrayed as. But I can't be the only one who doesn't.
    Ah. I can see how it works in their head.

    There was that pollution deregulation a few months ago, that Labour opposed. That was supposed to enable 100k houses, wasn't it?

    Thunderingly dishonest, given that the one thing we know is that Starmer is committed to getting more houses built, but technically true.

    Like a lot of political advertising, then.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,543

    O/t:

    Just seen a red rainbow; only a partial one due to cloud. I've only ever seen the phenomenon once before.

    Photo or it didn't happen, preferably with dog for scale and a half-empty glass of beer.
    Not a piccie of it at its best, but the only one I have that will be hard to geolocate, given it was taken from my front door.


    Where is the dog?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,765
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    The Russians will struggle to know how best to influence the next election. There is no obvious pro-Kremlin party, unlike in the US or much of Europe. Something we can be proud and relieved about. I assume they will look to magnify Reform UK messaging as well as anything encouraging overall disillusionment.

    Their best bet at the moment is probably stirring the pot on Israel & Gaza and encouraging those new Islamist parties.
    Their main aim is polarisation and discord, so they’ll be happily arguing the most extreme points of debate on almost any subject, trying to redefine language and the range of acceptable opinions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    I wear one when I cycle to and from work in the winter to protect my ears from a chill !!!!
    I used to wear one a lot whilst hiking in winter. I also wore one taking my son into school one snowy morning. The headmaster laughed.

    I think I have a bit of a reputation for eccentricity....
    Yes, hiking in Winter sort of works.

    Not too many banks to rob or people to terrorise out on the hills and moors, and if it's cold it sort of makes sense.

    I'd still take it off when talking to someone though.
    I camped out a lot whist doing the Pennine Way years ago. One cold morning, I got out of my tent and made my way towards the footbridge over the M62. Just before this there was a burger van in a layby, with a queue of hungry truckers waiting for food.

    I fancied a bacon sarnie, so I joined the end of the queue. This parted like the Red Sea, allowing me to go first. "Very kind of them," I thought. I got my grub and walked on.

    A couple of days later I met a couple of walkers who had been doing the trail behind me. They said they'd arrived at the burger van shortly after I left, and the truckers told them of this strange figure who came out of the mist, wearing a balaclava. The monster stamped his feet whilst in the queue, and they decided to let him go first so he'd leave soon.

    Yes, I frighten truckers!
    The baggage of the garment is such that even on very cold days no one trusts or feels safe around someone wearing a balaclava.

    In this ban happy era I'm surprised they can still be purchased rather than be labelled some kind of criminal or terroristic apparatus.
    I saw a couple of people on a local buildings site wearing them a couple of days ago. One was a brickie.

    Highly sensible, given the cold wind we can get around here.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,082

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Back of a quad bike. Or the front of it for that matter.

    @Dura might be able to provide some instances of use on the other side.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    You say all that, but Boris was very firmly against Russia wrt Ukraine; and the Conservatives under May were very strong over Salisbury. Compared to the Labour leader at the time, who seemed to want to blame anyone but Russia.
    Jeremy Corbyn called for tighter sanctions than were enacted by Conservatives. Whether he did so as an alternative to war or as a cynical exercise to cut off Conservative funding is left as an exercise for the reader, but he did.

    Russia invaded Ukraine in 2021 and fully expected Ukraine to fall within days (remember the stories of officers taking dress uniforms). Two reasons Ukraine would not have been a factor in 2019.
    Oh come off it! Remember Corbyn wanted us to send a sample of the agent to Russia? What did he think they'd say? "It's us, guv!" or "That's an American/British/whatever agent" ? He sowed doubt about origin when we needed consensus.

    Russia had everything it needed to become a great power after the calamities of the 1990s - aside from one thing. Leadership. Instead of trying to use its resources to raise Russia up, Putin and his cronies decided to steal, and to reduce everyone else down to their level. That's what he's truly interested in: not raising Russia up, but reducing everyone else.

    And Ukraine, or Georgia, or a/n/other, would have been a factor. Putin is a fascist imperialist, and he'd know he might want to attack somewhere soon. It's not as if he had not already done so, is it?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,772
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    The Russians will struggle to know how best to influence the next election. There is no obvious pro-Kremlin party, unlike in the US or much of Europe. Something we can be proud and relieved about. I assume they will look to magnify Reform UK messaging as well as anything encouraging overall disillusionment.

    Their best bet at the moment is probably stirring the pot on Israel & Gaza and encouraging those new Islamist parties.
    Their main aim is polarisation and discord, so they’ll be happily arguing the most extreme points of debate on almost any subject, trying to redefine language and the range of acceptable opinions.
    even with Russia's oil and gas sales, I can see them promoting extreme environmental groups because of the discord and disruption they cause. IMV Putin's a very short-term thinker.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,467
    edited December 2023
    TOPPING said:

    Are there any genuine circumstances in which I can wear a balaclava that won't make me look like a bank robber?

    Back of a quad bike. Or the front of it for that matter.

    @Dura might be able to provide some instances of use on the other side.
    Balaclavas can be used partly doubled up, like a WW2 commando's Cap, Comforter*, without frightening the lieges. In fact the opening for the face makes it easier to pull down over the ears, which is half the battle. Only in the worst do they need to be rolled down over the neck, in full threat status mode.

    Though as I get older I tend to use my Hat, Tweed, Irish, Anglers for the use of.

    * https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30100387
  • Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tory party comms are just a sad reflection on where the party is after it was trashed by Boris Johnson and the congenital liars and wreckers of Vote Leave. The whole operation is like Downing Street the morning after a Lockdown party, piles of vomit in the corner, broken garden furniture and everyone looking worse for wear. They need a period in opposition to nurse their hangovers.

    Thing is, in the days of Vote Leave and Vote Boris, the social media stuff worked. This time, it doesn't seem to be doing so. What's the difference? Off the top.of my head, I can think of three possibilities.

    One is that the meme artists are less good. Another is that we, as an audience have grown wiser to this sort of thing. The third is that, apart from the remaining loyalists, we don't want to believe Conservative messaging, and approach anything any of them say with suspicion.

    One of the problems Team Sunak has is that they are trapped in the public opinion equivalent of quicksand. The more noise they make, the more the "just make it stop" segment of the population will hate them.
    The dirty war on Social Media is going to be a feature of all elections from now on. Best done by willing and deniable fellow travellers.

    I suspect the Russian Troll farms will be mobilised again, but not in favour of the Tories this time because of Ukraine. Neither will they like Labour. I anticipate that they will be briefed to go negative, or support the right and left wing fringes.
    "not in favour of the Tories this time"

    What makes you think they were in favour of the Tories last time? A Corbyn government might have suited Russia quite well.

    (Then again, I believe the Russian trolls are often more interested in spreading discord and argument over any specific agenda.)
    Breaking up the EU would have been Russia's priority last time. The less said about donations and getting sons of KGB men into the House of Lords, the better. Secondary to that, as you say, any discord is better than harmony.
    The Russians will struggle to know how best to influence the next election. There is no obvious pro-Kremlin party, unlike in the US or much of Europe. Something we can be proud and relieved about. I assume they will look to magnify Reform UK messaging as well as anything encouraging overall disillusionment.

    Their best bet at the moment is probably stirring the pot on Israel & Gaza and encouraging those new Islamist parties.
    Their main aim is polarisation and discord, so they’ll be happily arguing the most extreme points of debate on almost any subject, trying to redefine language and the range of acceptable opinions.
    Yes, and to that end, Reform.

    Partly, as you say, just to stir the pot. But also with a medium-term aim of replacing the Tories with them, either by supplantment at the polls or reverse-takeover (a road which the parties are already some way down).
This discussion has been closed.