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You can’t handle the truth – politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Dunno, but he sure hated a cliché. Ironic that no other writer has had his writing gutted so much by trite repetition.

    'Dying metaphors: essentially clichés, which “have lost all evocative power and are merely used because they save people the trouble of inventing phrases for themselves.”'
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Quite interesting Ashcroft polling on the nuances of US public perceptions in supporting Israel and Ukraine, and how Trump fans differ:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/12/my-latest-us-polling-and-what-it-means-on-ukraine/

    What should we make of the cancellation of Zelensky's speech to the Senate? While there are Senators who are sceptical about Ukraine funding, the main obstacle is the House, so I'm not sure why he called it off.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited December 2023
    Silver lining from COVID - cycling rates up by 20% since 2019 in London.

    This is partly thanks to Johnson, who oversaw the the development of the segregated "cycle superhighway", the first of which opened in 2016 (though it was first put forward by Livingstone).

    Cycling Boris -> Brexit Boris is one of the more interesting political transitions, though I appreciate the two positions aren't exclusive!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o
  • Leon said:

    It’s just got a lovely buzzy welcoming vibe




    It looks like an upmarket execution chamber.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited December 2023
    mwadams said:

    theProle said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    My sense is that isn't entirely correct.

    Sure, they didn't vote on the basis of "honest and trustworthy" but there were far more people who thought he was back then.

    Sadly, the YouGov tracking poll (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-boris-johnson-trustworthy) only goes from 2019-2022; but he starts out with 36% there, which falls calamitously to 11% in August 2022.

    I think the view of many was that he was essentially a jovial, competent leader (even 40%+ of Labour voters thought he was a competent mayor of London); there was a solid body of 40-50% who never trusted him, but it is the "trust" number we are looking at.
    I think there were a lot of people (I'm one of them), who thought they'd trust him about as far as they could throw him however 1)this is true of most politicans, and 2)our interests (e.g. Brexit) at least temporarily aligned. So we voted for him.

    I thought he was a lying toad when I voted for him - I still think he's a lying toad now. But I also think he was a better over covid than KS would have been - not because Boris was particularly good, but because KS's instincts were all wrong; he always wanted more and harder lockdowns - all the available evidence suggests if anything we had too much.
    Yes- 40-50% of people fell into that category, including many that voted for him! (I was in the lying toad/didn't vote for him category myself.)
    All politics being relative, it is essential to recall that when Boris won the 2019 election there were only two possible governments: The one in which Brexit got done, led by Boris, and the one in which Corbyn was PM for the next 5 years. No-one had any idea what Labour would actually do or how they would do it.

    Counterfactual: If Corbyn had won in 2019 he would have been PM on 7th October this year when his 'friends' conducted a massacre in cold blood.

    I am not voting Tory this time. If the choice was Corbyn v Boris in 2024 I would however vote Tory (and emigrate).
  • Heavy kept behind after class as teacher lists your manifest failings vibe.


  • eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    Gaza might be optimal currently.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited December 2023
    On topic, regarding TSE's question, "are 16% of the country gullible idiots?"

    Absolutely not. The true percentage is surely much higher. Some of the 84% in that poll are presumably gullible and idiotic too... just not THAT gullible and idiotic.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    I’d make a note of their name and run a mile from any further ‘suggestions’ from them.
  • theProle said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    My sense is that isn't entirely correct.

    Sure, they didn't vote on the basis of "honest and trustworthy" but there were far more people who thought he was back then.

    Sadly, the YouGov tracking poll (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-boris-johnson-trustworthy) only goes from 2019-2022; but he starts out with 36% there, which falls calamitously to 11% in August 2022.

    I think the view of many was that he was essentially a jovial, competent leader (even 40%+ of Labour voters thought he was a competent mayor of London); there was a solid body of 40-50% who never trusted him, but it is the "trust" number we are looking at.
    I think there were a lot of people (I'm one of them), who thought they'd trust him about as far as they could throw him however 1)this is true of most politicans, and 2)our interests (e.g. Brexit) at least temporarily aligned. So we voted for him.

    I thought he was a lying toad when I voted for him - I still think he's a lying toad now. But I also think he was a better over covid than KS would have been - not because Boris was particularly good, but because KS's instincts were all wrong; he always wanted more and harder lockdowns - all the available evidence suggests if anything we had too much.
    I assume you are not one of the 20% who wanted nightclubs to never re-open.
    The public wanted harder lockdowns than those mandated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    Speaking of weight loss - I’m on Wegovy after trying Ozempic. Definitely lost some weight … but much more interestingly it has really changed my desire for booze

    I reckon it’s roughly halved my intake. I still enjoy a glass - or indeed several - but then I stop. My desire is sated much quicker. Its truly odd

    These things could be absolute wonder drugs as long as it doesn’t turn out they all give you brain cancer
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, in a couple of hours I am doing - with others - a webinar on "Investigations: What Can Go Wrong and How to Fix This". We have an hour. Will it be enough time?

    So must stop hanging round here and get ready.

    Good luck with your webinar. I have another meeting this afternoon, otherwise might have signed up!
    It will later be available on replay.

    VM me if interested.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    theProle said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    My sense is that isn't entirely correct.

    Sure, they didn't vote on the basis of "honest and trustworthy" but there were far more people who thought he was back then.

    Sadly, the YouGov tracking poll (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-boris-johnson-trustworthy) only goes from 2019-2022; but he starts out with 36% there, which falls calamitously to 11% in August 2022.

    I think the view of many was that he was essentially a jovial, competent leader (even 40%+ of Labour voters thought he was a competent mayor of London); there was a solid body of 40-50% who never trusted him, but it is the "trust" number we are looking at.
    I think there were a lot of people (I'm one of them), who thought they'd trust him about as far as they could throw him however 1)this is true of most politicans, and 2)our interests (e.g. Brexit) at least temporarily aligned. So we voted for him.

    I thought he was a lying toad when I voted for him - I still think he's a lying toad now. But I also think he was a better over covid than KS would have been - not because Boris was particularly good, but because KS's instincts were all wrong; he always wanted more and harder lockdowns - all the available evidence suggests if anything we had too much.
    I assume you are not one of the 20% who wanted nightclubs to never re-open.
    The public wanted harder lockdowns than those mandated.
    Yep. We can bitch and moan all we like but every opinion poll wanted harder, longer, stricter lockdowns. Made me despair of my fellow countryfolk.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    Leon said:

    I have made a disastrous hotel move

    Breaking news

    @Leon makes bad life choice
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,817
    edited December 2023
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67634953

    Incredible fraud case, British trader in UAE accused of £1.4bn tax fraud against the Danish government over just 3 years! In terms of size for Denmark thats equivalent to UK around £16bn or 3p on income tax.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938

    theProle said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    My sense is that isn't entirely correct.

    Sure, they didn't vote on the basis of "honest and trustworthy" but there were far more people who thought he was back then.

    Sadly, the YouGov tracking poll (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-boris-johnson-trustworthy) only goes from 2019-2022; but he starts out with 36% there, which falls calamitously to 11% in August 2022.

    I think the view of many was that he was essentially a jovial, competent leader (even 40%+ of Labour voters thought he was a competent mayor of London); there was a solid body of 40-50% who never trusted him, but it is the "trust" number we are looking at.
    I think there were a lot of people (I'm one of them), who thought they'd trust him about as far as they could throw him however 1)this is true of most politicans, and 2)our interests (e.g. Brexit) at least temporarily aligned. So we voted for him.

    I thought he was a lying toad when I voted for him - I still think he's a lying toad now. But I also think he was a better over covid than KS would have been - not because Boris was particularly good, but because KS's instincts were all wrong; he always wanted more and harder lockdowns - all the available evidence suggests if anything we had too much.
    I assume you are not one of the 20% who wanted nightclubs to never re-open.
    The public wanted harder lockdowns than those mandated.
    Which only goes to show the public are easily manipulated idiots who like being told what to do by authority figures.

    Quite easy to see how quickly a country can slide into authoritarianism.

    No doubt enabled by the kind of curtain twitchers who reported friends and family for daring to gather in groups of more than six, or give granny a hug, etc.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    theProle said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    My sense is that isn't entirely correct.

    Sure, they didn't vote on the basis of "honest and trustworthy" but there were far more people who thought he was back then.

    Sadly, the YouGov tracking poll (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/is-boris-johnson-trustworthy) only goes from 2019-2022; but he starts out with 36% there, which falls calamitously to 11% in August 2022.

    I think the view of many was that he was essentially a jovial, competent leader (even 40%+ of Labour voters thought he was a competent mayor of London); there was a solid body of 40-50% who never trusted him, but it is the "trust" number we are looking at.
    I think there were a lot of people (I'm one of them), who thought they'd trust him about as far as they could throw him however 1)this is true of most politicans, and 2)our interests (e.g. Brexit) at least temporarily aligned. So we voted for him.

    I thought he was a lying toad when I voted for him - I still think he's a lying toad now. But I also think he was a better over covid than KS would have been - not because Boris was particularly good, but because KS's instincts were all wrong; he always wanted more and harder lockdowns - all the available evidence suggests if anything we had too much.
    I assume you are not one of the 20% who wanted nightclubs to never re-open.
    The public wanted harder lockdowns than those mandated.
    Yep. We can bitch and moan all we like but every opinion poll wanted harder, longer, stricter lockdowns. Made me despair of my fellow countryfolk.
    I can’t believe that people who answer opinion polls can ever truly be representative, especially not on questions like those on lockdown.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Fascinating FT article on unreliable economic data


    https://www.ft.com/content/c406ef56-bc43-4cdc-8913-fbaced9b9954


    If this is right, the Chinese economy is not struggling to overtake America’s - it could be twice as large (using electricity consumption as a proxy metric)

    And Brexit Britain did not shrivel away…
  • Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
  • Am also engaged with legal faff over a web store. This is the third such webstore I have created. With policies etc taken as legally approved boilerplate and then legally approved with amendments by previous clients.

    This client decided after a few months that another legal review was needed. Not that there is anything wrong with the current policies which requires the store to be taken off-line. So an invitation to their lawyers to come up with the same thing in a format they are happy with.

    New lawyers understand gift week and produce reams of unnecessary additions which need to be taken off one by one. Now there are "we must do x to comply with remote selling laws" despite already having a clear "no quibbles refund" policy posted and in effect.

    Group legal and contracted lawyers now arguing with each other about various clauses. The bill keeps increasing. And now they are asking me to referee!

    Can I refer you back to the start where the existing policies are already legally compliant? No wonder TSE can afford such outrageous shoes... :D

    Once you understand that the legal profession operates as a protection racket everything makes sense.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Leon said:

    Fascinating FT article on unreliable economic data


    https://www.ft.com/content/c406ef56-bc43-4cdc-8913-fbaced9b9954


    If this is right, the Chinese economy is not struggling to overtake America’s - it could be twice as large (using electricity consumption as a proxy metric)

    And Brexit Britain did not shrivel away…

    If GDP by PPP is the superior metric, it helps explain why Russia has survived sanctions and might now be winning in Ukraine. The Russian economy is not “smaller than Spain” or whatever - it is the 6th largest in the world
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited December 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Silver lining from COVID - cycling rates up by 20% since 2019 in London.

    This is partly thanks to Johnson, who oversaw the the development of the segregated "cycle superhighway", the first of which opened in 2016 (though it was first put forward by Livingstone).

    Cycling Boris -> Brexit Boris is one of the more interesting political transitions, though I appreciate the two positions aren't exclusive!

    Boris's cycling superhighways were overwhelmingly blue paint - the first properly separated sections only opened in 2015. AKA 1st Generation. It shows how far London has come in less than 10 years.

    There's even a fun piccie:


    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/unfriendly-greeting-for-boris-as-he-opens-new-cycle-superhighway-a3118491.html
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    Eabhal said:

    Silver lining from COVID - cycling rates up by 20% since 2019 in London.

    This is partly thanks to Johnson, who oversaw the the development of the segregated "cycle superhighway", the first of which opened in 2016 (though it was first put forward by Livingstone).

    Cycling Boris -> Brexit Boris is one of the more interesting political transitions, though I appreciate the two positions aren't exclusive!

    They both involve taking freedom from others?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241
    eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    Got to feel sorry for the intern who’s going to get blamed for that
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67634953

    Incredible fraud case, British trader in UAE accused of £1.4bn tax fraud against the Danish government over just 3 years! In terms of size for Denmark thats equivalent to UK around £16bn or 3p on income tax.

    This is the recent supreme court decision relating to whether a case could be taken in the UK
    https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/uksc/2023/40

    There will now be a year long case in the commercial court on the main issues.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
    It was the Libertarian Party in about 2008.

    So a parallel campaigning stunt to a Libertarian Blogger Robert Ambridge, known as Old Holborn, "going for a walk in Whitehall wearing a Guy Fawkes mask", along with other people going individually for walks at the same time. Inspired by iirc V for Vendetta.

    They were correct to protest at some of the more kneejerk authoritarian New Labour policy, but OH lost a lot of support by walking the bounds of iirc racism.

    He died in January this year:
    http://taking-liberties.squarespace.com/blog/2023/1/25/old-holborn-is-dead.html
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
    It was the Libertarian Party in about 2008.

    So a parallel campaigning stunt to a Libertarian Blogger Robert Ambridge, known as Old Holborn, "going for a walk in Whitehall wearing a Guy Fawkes mask", along with other people going individually for walks at the same time. Inspired by iirc V for Vendetta.

    They were correct to protest at some of the more kneejerk authoritarian New Labour policy, but OH lost a lot of support by walking the bounds of iirc racism.

    He died in January this year:
    http://taking-liberties.squarespace.com/blog/2023/1/25/old-holborn-is-dead.html
    HE also enjoyed winding up Scousers too.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited December 2023
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
    It was the Libertarian Party in about 2008.

    So a parallel campaigning stunt to a Libertarian Blogger Robert Ambridge, known as Old Holborn, "going for a walk in Whitehall wearing a Guy Fawkes mask", along with other people going individually for walks at the same time. Inspired by iirc V for Vendetta.

    They were correct to protest at some of the more kneejerk authoritarian New Labour policy, but OH lost a lot of support by walking the bounds of iirc racism.

    He died in January this year:
    http://taking-liberties.squarespace.com/blog/2023/1/25/old-holborn-is-dead.html
    Links with context:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090105201358/http://www.thelabourparty.org/1984-for-all-mps.htm
    https://web.archive.org/web/20081202025739/http://tomcharris.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/an-orwellian-nightmare-oh-wake-up/
    https://web.archive.org/web/20081206153833/http://tomcharris.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/poking-that-sleeping-dog-with-a-stick/

    (The first link is a third party satirising Labour and I think Google-bombing them.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    And in other news:

    "Nicolás Maduro officially declared the creation of a 24th Venezuelan province in Essequibo

    Following this the Venezuelan state released a new official map of Venezuela which includes the oil-rich Essequibo region of its neighboring state of Guyana

    Will they invade?"

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1732331309568045096

    ---

    It looks as though Venezuela is going to create a 'military zone' in Guyanese territory, issue ID cards to Guyanese people in the region, and start drilling for oil offshore.

    This is very similar to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990; sadly, I doubt the world's reaction is going to be anywhere near as strong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    And in other news:

    "Nicolás Maduro officially declared the creation of a 24th Venezuelan province in Essequibo

    Following this the Venezuelan state released a new official map of Venezuela which includes the oil-rich Essequibo region of its neighboring state of Guyana

    Will they invade?"

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1732331309568045096

    ---

    It looks as though Venezuela is going to create a 'military zone' in Guyanese territory, issue ID cards to Guyanese people in the region, and start drilling for oil offshore.

    This is very similar to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990; sadly, I doubt the world's reaction is going to be anywhere near as strong.

    Brazil might want a word
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67634953

    Incredible fraud case, British trader in UAE accused of £1.4bn tax fraud against the Danish government over just 3 years! In terms of size for Denmark thats equivalent to UK around £16bn or 3p on income tax.

    This is the recent supreme court decision relating to whether a case could be taken in the UK
    https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/uksc/2023/40

    There will now be a year long case in the commercial court on the main issues.
    This has been news in the UAE for a few years now, it sounds like a large-scale version of the ‘carousel fraud’ involving VAT refunds that was briefly popular a few years back.

    An astonishing amount of money involved though, which is why both civil and criminal investigations have been going on for some time and in a number of countries. He was first arrested 18 months ago at the request of the Danish authorities (he’s a dual national), and it’s taken until today for the Court of Cassation (UAE Supreme Court) to finally exhaust his route of appeal. He also has a $1bn civil judgement against him in Dubai, which the court there will want to see settled first before other cases.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
    It was the Libertarian Party in about 2008.

    So a parallel campaigning stunt to a Libertarian Blogger Robert Ambridge, known as Old Holborn, "going for a walk in Whitehall wearing a Guy Fawkes mask", along with other people going individually for walks at the same time. Inspired by iirc V for Vendetta.

    They were correct to protest at some of the more kneejerk authoritarian New Labour policy, but OH lost a lot of support by walking the bounds of iirc racism.

    He died in January this year:
    http://taking-liberties.squarespace.com/blog/2023/1/25/old-holborn-is-dead.html
    I remember him, sad to hear of his demise. RIP. I joined in a couple of his protest events, at the time of the MP expenses scandal.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    Hang on, SKS appointed a known (alleged) sex pest to the position of Labour Party Chief Whip and then lied about it? That certainly passed me by :wink:

    (FWIW, I do agree on your comments about SKS on Covid - I think he was both wrong and a bit cynical on that and that the Johnson administration handled the December 2021 situation pretty well, even though they cocked up repeatedly early on)
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Am also engaged with legal faff over a web store. This is the third such webstore I have created. With policies etc taken as legally approved boilerplate and then legally approved with amendments by previous clients.

    This client decided after a few months that another legal review was needed. Not that there is anything wrong with the current policies which requires the store to be taken off-line. So an invitation to their lawyers to come up with the same thing in a format they are happy with.

    New lawyers understand gift week and produce reams of unnecessary additions which need to be taken off one by one. Now there are "we must do x to comply with remote selling laws" despite already having a clear "no quibbles refund" policy posted and in effect.

    Group legal and contracted lawyers now arguing with each other about various clauses. The bill keeps increasing. And now they are asking me to referee!

    Can I refer you back to the start where the existing policies are already legally compliant? No wonder TSE can afford such outrageous shoes... :D

    Once you understand that the legal profession operates as a protection racket everything makes sense.
    Same with auditing and compliance.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Quite bizarre. I might be the only guest. I am surrounded by staff. And bland, shiny new marble



    Looks grim.
    It’s freaking weird is what it is. Utterly deserted. A whole spa complex and fitness room and business centre and everything - and I walk alone

    I feel like an orientalised Patrick McGoohan
    Man in a Suitcase was Richard Bradford, wasn't it ?

    Be seeing you.
  • isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited December 2023

    I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    I'm no defender of either Mandelson or Campbell - they were Machiavellian buggers in many ways. But they were operators - they knew that, to be effective, there needed to be a core of consistency and you needed people to know that your position today would be your position tomorrow in order to get anything done.

    Johnson was a class apart from that. Whether you were a member of the public watching him on TV, a colleague, an official, a wife, or a lover... Johnson would only ever say what was, in that moment, most convenient to him. It was an illness in many ways - it could work for a while and he had other undoubted strengths, but ultimately he's lost just about every job and every relationship he's had because of it as you can never take anything he says to the bank.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited December 2023
    Headline:

    https://shorturl.at/dfksO

    "Almost five million UK homeowners are set to see their mortgage repayments surge by hundreds of pounds over the next three years, the Bank of England has warned."

    Is it me or is this a bit like a burglar 'warning' you you might not have all your valuables after they come round your house. I mean it is the BoE that decides interest rates...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    Speaking of weight loss - I’m on Wegovy after trying Ozempic. Definitely lost some weight … but much more interestingly it has really changed my desire for booze

    I reckon it’s roughly halved my intake. I still enjoy a glass - or indeed several - but then I stop. My desire is sated much quicker. Its truly odd

    These things could be absolute wonder drugs as long as it doesn’t turn out they all give you brain cancer
    We're grateful for the current guinea pigs engaged in the large scale, long term trial which will help determine that.

    So thanks.
  • I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    Not in the same league.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Headline:

    https://shorturl.at/dfksO

    "Almost five million UK homeowners are set to see their mortgage repayments surge by hundreds of pounds over the next three years, the Bank of England has warned."

    Is it me or is this a bit like a burglar 'warning' you you might not have all your valuables after they come round your house. I mean it is the BoE that decides interest rates...

    Mine goes up £250 in February...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    Not in the same league.
    Really? I'd beg to differ on that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/
    As you review all these sites, can you tell us who 'Dr No' is?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Pulpstar said:

    Headline:

    https://shorturl.at/dfksO

    "Almost five million UK homeowners are set to see their mortgage repayments surge by hundreds of pounds over the next three years, the Bank of England has warned."

    Is it me or is this a bit like a burglar 'warning' you you might not have all your valuables after they come round your house. I mean it is the BoE that decides interest rates...

    More than that, it’s the BoE who waited far too long to increase rates in the first place, and is now primarily responsible for both continuing inflation and that rates are still so high, even within their remit. The contrast with the Fed couldn’t be more stark.
  • I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    Not in the same league.
    Really? I'd beg to differ on that.
    I think you need to make a list of Campbell and Mandelson's known lies and we can then make a judgement.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    Perhaps they’d only heard of the Mary Celeste?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste

    ;)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited December 2023

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    Had they heard of the Mary Celeste? :tongue:

    (Interesting though. I knew about this as a kid, but not sure from where - and I also thought it was 'Marie Celeste'. Some kind of pop culture reference in a film or TV show of the time?)

    ETA: Both Sandpit and I sticking to the founding principles of pendantry here :smile:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/

    I used to read CDAN, it was quite entertaining for a while and AGC which featured guesses on the stories.

    All fun in a salacious tittle tattle sort of way. But becomes a little boring after a while. Digital Spy used to have a thread discussing it and all of the guesses which was regularly suspended due to people straying into libel territory.

    Didn't know it was still going. The Yachting thing was fascinating. Especially as it seemed to be, predominantly, supermodels visiting Middle Eastern and Former Soviet states.

    Holy Moly used to be interesting as well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Pulpstar said:

    Headline:

    https://shorturl.at/dfksO

    "Almost five million UK homeowners are set to see their mortgage repayments surge by hundreds of pounds over the next three years, the Bank of England has warned."

    Is it me or is this a bit like a burglar 'warning' you you might not have all your valuables after they come round your house. I mean it is the BoE that decides interest rates...

    ZIRP beneficiaries have to get used to reverting to the mean.

    I have noticed interest rates for mortgages and savings have been falling recently. It won't be as painful as it was originally expected to be.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    My other half asked me what a spin doctor was the other day; I thought she must be joking

    Then again, I had a solar panel engineer round today who told me it’s going to cost ‘Nineteen ninety five’ to fix the problem, and I thought id have change out of twenty quid! If only
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    Not in the same league.
    Really? I'd beg to differ on that.
    I think you need to make a list of Campbell and Mandelson's known lies and we can then make a judgement.
    Well, they weren't under the same scrutiny at the time (virtually no Twitter etc), but I'd suggest Mandelson's *two* resignations back up my view, and as for Campbell: virtually anything that comes out of his mouth. But if you want a biggie, the whole Iraq mess.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited December 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Headline:

    https://shorturl.at/dfksO

    "Almost five million UK homeowners are set to see their mortgage repayments surge by hundreds of pounds over the next three years, the Bank of England has warned."

    Is it me or is this a bit like a burglar 'warning' you you might not have all your valuables after they come round your house. I mean it is the BoE that decides interest rates...

    Well, not really, as they aren't profiting in a meaningful way from it, and it would be an odd burglar who sometimes took your valuables and sometimes gave you valuables (as interest rates do sometimes go down as well as up).

    What they are saying is:

    1. If your fixed rate is coming to an end, you'd be wise to get your finances in order as you will get a shock on mortgage renewal (or refinancing for a company or public sector entity).
    2. If you think the recent fall in inflation means the interest will quickly drop back to former levels, you'll probably be disappointed as core inflation is stubbornly high and some of what you've seen recently is unwind from a price spike last year.

    That just seems sensible as a way of giving a steer on how people and businesses might reasonably plan in the medium term.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    I mentioned yesterday that I was now being assisted by carers. It often surprises my wife and myself, when we make reference to something which we regard as common knowledge, how often our carers look at us blankly and say that they've never heard of whatever it is.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372
    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    Perhaps they’d only heard of the Mary Celeste?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste

    ;)
    What I find fascinating with that is I had always been led to believe it was the Marie, not Mary, Celeste.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Good PMQ's gag from Stephen Flynn:
    .. is the PM worried that he is projected to be the first Conservative party leader to lose a general election to a fellow Thatcherite?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    The sides are so ill-matched that there might not be a 'war' in any substantial sense. As you mentioned below, if Brazil or a.n.other get involved, that'd be a different matter.

    The terrain is such that a 'traditional' invasion might be more or less impossible. Instead they'll infiltrate the few interior settlements via rivers - at least that's my guess. And once they control them, they control the area.

    It is exceptionally remote terrain.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    I mentioned yesterday that I was now being assisted by carers. It often surprises my wife and myself, when we make reference to something which we regard as common knowledge, how often our carers look at us blankly and say that they've never heard of whatever it is.
    I was watching a video yesterday by an American cultural commentator lady, who said that she was born after 9/11. :open_mouth:

    I’m 45 and feeling very old!
  • Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
    This could be an interesting test of China and their claims of increasing their worldwide influence. Do they actually have that influence, if they can’t defend it militarily?
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The technicality being it was not against the law. Tens of millions of people escape criminal convictions for their activities each day on the same basis.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/
    As you review all these sites, can you tell us who 'Dr No' is?
    No. "Dr No" being the person named such by Nadine Dorries in her book "The Plot". Dougie Smith is put forward as a candidate but that's circumstantial.

    https://twitter.com/MeirionTweets/status/1720433173203456301
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/11/how-has-the-conservative-partys-dr-no-escaped-everyones-notice-for-so-long/
  • Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    Perhaps they’d only heard of the Mary Celeste?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Celeste

    ;)
    What I find fascinating with that is I had always been led to believe it was the Marie, not Mary, Celeste.
    The Wikipedia link explains that the Mary Celeste story was popularised by a Sir Arthur Conan Doyle short story about the Marie Celeste.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    I mentioned yesterday that I was now being assisted by carers. It often surprises my wife and myself, when we make reference to something which we regard as common knowledge, how often our carers look at us blankly and say that they've never heard of whatever it is.
    I was watching a video yesterday by an American cultural commentator lady, who said that she was born after 9/11. :open_mouth:

    I’m 45 and feeling very old!
    I was still working then; seems a long, long time ago.
    I've been retired longer than I held any particular job!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    isam said:

    Selebian said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    Hang on, SKS appointed a known (alleged) sex pest to the position of Labour Party Chief Whip and then lied about it? That certainly passed me by :wink:

    (FWIW, I do agree on your comments about SKS on Covid - I think he was both wrong and a bit cynical on that and that the Johnson administration handled the December 2021 situation pretty well, even though they cocked up repeatedly early on)
    I think it goes back to image, and a tendency to cast people in roles as either heroes or villains that is as old as the hills - because Boris was a cavalier, scruffy, unscrupulous and dishonest but funny and charismatic, Sir Keir is cast as his complete opposite, and it follows that he must be
    honest because he is dull. This has let him get away with a long list of double standards, U turns, and in the case of the ‘Johnson Variant’ nonsense, an outrageous attempt to deprive the whole country of freedom to leave the house and socialise with friends & family, because he wanted to play a game of chicken in order pin the
    blame on a rival for people dying
    Absolutely right.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The technicality being it was not against the law. Tens of millions of people escape criminal convictions for their activities each day on the same basis.
    Boris broke the law. Starmer did not break the law. It pisses off the right, but it is what it is. Ordinarily you would blame whomever wrote the law, but in this case that was Boris...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
    It will be quite the humiliation for Biden if it is China that stops the war, not Washington

    The end of the Monroe Doctrine in emphatic style
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
    This could be an interesting test of China and their claims of increasing their worldwide influence. Do they actually have that influence, if they can’t defend it militarily?

    It's something that a lot of regimes who have got close to China will be watching very closely. When push comes to shove, what can Beijing do to protect them?

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
    It will be quite the humiliation for Biden if it is China that stops the war, not Washington

    The end of the Monroe Doctrine in emphatic style

    China won't put troops on the ground, though. I think the Americans might, alongside the Brazilians. Are there British troops stationed in Guyana? I wouldn't be surprised if we had a few.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    Selebian said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    Hang on, SKS appointed a known (alleged) sex pest to the position of Labour Party Chief Whip and then lied about it? That certainly passed me by :wink:

    (FWIW, I do agree on your comments about SKS on Covid - I think he was both wrong and a bit cynical on that and that the Johnson administration handled the December 2021 situation pretty well, even though they cocked up repeatedly early on)
    I think it goes back to image, and a tendency to cast people in roles as either heroes or villains that is as old as the hills - because Boris was a cavalier, scruffy, unscrupulous and dishonest but funny and charismatic, Sir Keir is cast as his complete opposite, and it follows that he must be
    honest because he is dull. This has let him get away with a long list of double standards, U turns, and in the case of the ‘Johnson Variant’ nonsense, an outrageous attempt to deprive the whole country of freedom to leave the house and socialise with friends & family, because he wanted to play a game of chicken in order pin the
    blame on a rival for people dying
    Absolutely right.
    On the other hand that makes Starner a more skilful liar and a cleverer if unscrupulous politicker - not necessarily bad things in a prime minister

    He is, after all, a lawyer
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Sandpit said:

    Incidentally, I was only one of two swimmers when I went to the pool this morning. I chatted to the lifeguard and another staff member, and said: "Have I gone wrong and ended up in the Marie Celeste?"

    They looked at each other, and asked: "What's that?"

    Two women in their twenties had not heard of the Marie Celeste. I find that quite incredible.

    They seemed to quite enjoy the story when I told them it.

    I mentioned yesterday that I was now being assisted by carers. It often surprises my wife and myself, when we make reference to something which we regard as common knowledge, how often our carers look at us blankly and say that they've never heard of whatever it is.
    I was watching a video yesterday by an American cultural commentator lady, who said that she was born after 9/11. :open_mouth:

    I’m 45 and feeling very old!
    I was still working then; seems a long, long time ago.
    I've been retired longer than I held any particular job!
    My record in a single job is six years, although I did spend seven years working for myself as a consultant. I hope to have a lot more than that as a retirement!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Quite interesting Ashcroft polling on the nuances of US public perceptions in supporting Israel and Ukraine, and how Trump fans differ:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/12/my-latest-us-polling-and-what-it-means-on-ukraine/

    What should we make of the cancellation of Zelensky's speech to the Senate? While there are Senators who are sceptical about Ukraine funding, the main obstacle is the House, so I'm not sure why he called it off.

    Probably because of this:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4343929-senate-republicans-ukraine-funding-tempers-flare-classified-briefing/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,413
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/
    As you review all these sites, can you tell us who 'Dr No' is?
    No. "Dr No" being the person named such by Nadine Dorries in her book "The Plot". Dougie Smith is put forward as a candidate but that's circumstantial.

    https://twitter.com/MeirionTweets/status/1720433173203456301
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/11/how-has-the-conservative-partys-dr-no-escaped-everyones-notice-for-so-long/
    No, Dougie Smith is mentioned in his own right.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The technicality being it was not against the law. Tens of millions of people escape criminal convictions for their activities each day on the same basis.
    Boris broke the law. Starmer did not break the law. It pisses off the right, but it is what it is. Ordinarily you would blame whomever wrote the law, but in this case that was Boris...
    It might be a good time to remind ourselves that as a top lefty lawyer, Sir Keir Starmer KC MP would have understood precisely what the rules were when he pledged to resign if charged, and also when he manoeuvred Boris into misleading the House. Understanding rules is what lawyers do for a living.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    HYUFD said:

    People didn't vote for Boris as he was honest and trustworthy, otherwise they would have stuck with May

    So the MPs voted for a liar?
    The MPs voted for someone they thought (rightly, as it turned out) could win an election. They were prepared to accept a fraud and a cad as the price necessary to save their party and keep Corbyn out. Which doesn't say much for the alternatives or for the mess they'd got themselves into.
    A classic decision with a short-term payoff and a long-term cost, and therefore the sort that come as second nature to almost all politicians.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The cases are not comparable. First, we're talking about different stages during the pandemic, when different rules applied. Second, we know now that there was widespread, long-term and repeated rule-breaking at No. 10, including late-night carousing, which is nothing like having a beer with a curry while working late.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129

    Leon said:

    It’s just got a lovely buzzy welcoming vibe




    It looks like an upmarket execution chamber.
    I was thinking Dignitas - so quite close in a sense.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'This foreign A++ lister is tanking in the polls. Don’t be surprised if he steps down after the holidays. He will say it is to spend more time with his family.'
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2023/12/blind-item-4_5.html

    OK (cracks knuckles)

    The person known as "Entertainment Lawyer" (or "Enty" for short) runs a gossip website called "Crazy Days and Nights" ("CDAN" for short). The blind items (deliberately vague gossip) on that site range from the surprisingly true to the totally fictional. From memory he was sued recently by a sleb for totally making shit up, for which he was fined.

    CDAN used to be fun when it was working out which slebs were gay, but in the 20s it's full of D-listers, reality stars, paedophiles and "yachting", a version of prostitution whereby very minor slebs go on yachts owned by the wealthy and do very unpleasant things for money. Although still addictive, it's neither reliable nor pleasant.

    Having said that I'd guess Trudeau, but what do I know.

    Popbitch is nicer and has more otters. Perez Hilton has improved his site to death. TMZ is a thing. AGC Blind Items used to be fantastic but has deteriorated with links now just to CDAN and occasionally Popbitch. AGC Blind Items is the one I prefer, but YMMV

    http://www.agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/MAINPAGE.html
    https://www.tumblr.com/noregretsjustlovecc/139637509823/who-is-enty-what-is-cdan
    https://popbitch.com/
    https://perezhilton.com/
    https://www.tmz.com/
    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/
    As you review all these sites, can you tell us who 'Dr No' is?
    No. "Dr No" being the person named such by Nadine Dorries in her book "The Plot". Dougie Smith is put forward as a candidate but that's circumstantial.

    https://twitter.com/MeirionTweets/status/1720433173203456301
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/11/how-has-the-conservative-partys-dr-no-escaped-everyones-notice-for-so-long/
    No, Dougie Smith is mentioned in his own right.
    Dr No is probably our own JackW. My guess was Rupert Murdoch but I'm still ploughing through Nadine's book.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The technicality being it was not against the law. Tens of millions of people escape criminal convictions for their activities each day on the same basis.
    Boris broke the law. Starmer did not break the law. It pisses off the right, but it is what it is. Ordinarily you would blame whomever wrote the law, but in this case that was Boris...
    Yes but look what it has made you do. It has made you differentiate between the nuances of what was an absolutely absurd and illogical law. It threw up all these bonkers arrest you for walking carrying a cup of coffee "offences" and here you are defending it. Where I don't differ but perhaps add to @Isam's point is that the whole thing was an aberration and violation of our democratic principles. And Boris got caught by it and SKS narrowly avoided it and good because it will help to contribute to a future whereby no politician should ever for the tiniest moment consider introducing such illiberal laws again.

    And all, I of course need to add, cheered on by the British public.

    It was shocking.

    As an anthology there should be a collection of @contrarian's posts on PB at the time. Absolutely spot on. I half disagree about the first lockdown because we genuinely didn't know what we were dealing with and the govt looked at Northern Italy and the hospital trolleys and thought O fuck but apart from that every single thing that @contrarian wrote, from the social, legal, economic consequences of the government actions were absolutely bang on.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Cyclefree said:

    I have said often enough - because it is true - that conflicts of interest are at the heart of most scandals. Yesterday's evidence at the Post Office Inquiry provides yet another example. Two in fact.

    The investigators were given bonuses based on how much money they recovered from subpostmasters. So of course they had no incentive to find out the cause of the discrepancies and every incentive to pursue them for money. No wonder they did no proper investigations.

    Added to that the Post Office had to pay money to Fujitsu to get the necessary information to find out what was happening so they had an extra incentive not to to investigate and not to disclose.

    Christ knows who signed off on such an egregiously bad policy. The senior lawyers probably. I have no polite words for those responsible, whoever they are.

    As yesterday’s witness, who unlike many that have been before, didn’t seem to be a complete idiot, said, Fujitsu were on a very favourable deal, being paid a penny for every single transaction done at every sub post office in the country, and then able to charge the Post Office extra whenever they needed to look at their own data.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I fear @JosiasJessop is right, and Venezuela is about to go to war on Guyana

    Unless America intervenes it will be a total walkover. Guyana has an army of 5000 men. Venezuela has 200,000

    Brazil is more likely to intervene directly. Venezuela is also going to be going up against China, not militarily but in most other ways. The Chinese have a very close relationship with the current Guyanese regime.
    This could be an interesting test of China and their claims of increasing their worldwide influence. Do they actually have that influence, if they can’t defend it militarily?

    It's something that a lot of regimes who have got close to China will be watching very closely. When push comes to shove, what can Beijing do to protect them?

    Beijing can wield absolutely colossal economic power: more than America

    It is the largest trader in the world, biggest importer and exporter etc. Many countries are dependant on Beijing for their continued prosperity. Plus Beijing has massive debt leverage

    Eg Brazil really relies on China for trade. Beijing could pressure Brazil to thwart Guyana

    Of course this all presumes China isn’t in on this. The whole thing might be part of the Xi Putin plan to overturn the western world order. Which is working quite well so far
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT@cyclefree. Mass rape is a terror tactic, which goes beyond men seeing the women of the enemy as one of the spoils of war. It’s really a form of torture.

    And then denying that it's happened is another layer of torture for the victims.

    "There is an old Jewish saying: the antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence.

    The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.
    "
    No one who denies the Holocaust truly disbelieves it. They enjoy trolling the descendants of the victims. I expect that's also the motivation of people who assert that slaves in the Southern US States were well-treated, and supported the Confederacy .

    Doublethink is a process of indoctrination in which subjects are expected to simultaneously accept two conflicting beliefs as truth, often at odds with their own memory or sense of reality.


    1984 was Orwell naming existing things he observed.
    Didn’t Orwell intend his writings to be a warning to future governments, rather than an instruction manual for them?
    Some years ago, there was a campaign of sending copies of 1984 to every MP with a note saying it was a warning not an instruction manual.

    The response - trying to get the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour.
    Have you a link to that?
    It was the Libertarian Party in about 2008.

    So a parallel campaigning stunt to a Libertarian Blogger Robert Ambridge, known as Old Holborn, "going for a walk in Whitehall wearing a Guy Fawkes mask", along with other people going individually for walks at the same time. Inspired by iirc V for Vendetta.

    They were correct to protest at some of the more kneejerk authoritarian New Labour policy, but OH lost a lot of support by walking the bounds of iirc racism.

    He died in January this year:
    http://taking-liberties.squarespace.com/blog/2023/1/25/old-holborn-is-dead.html
    Links with context:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090105201358/http://www.thelabourparty.org/1984-for-all-mps.htm
    https://web.archive.org/web/20081202025739/http://tomcharris.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/an-orwellian-nightmare-oh-wake-up/
    https://web.archive.org/web/20081206153833/http://tomcharris.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/poking-that-sleeping-dog-with-a-stick/

    (The first link is a third party satirising Labour and I think Google-bombing them.)
    I was more interested in the getting ‘the police to arrest the senders for threatening behaviour’ which implies it was the mere act of sending a book that inspired this. Checking one of your links there was actual threatening behaviour. Tom Harris is a twat and tends to populist railing against the libtard establishment nowadays himself, but if it was he who got the police involved, he would have been well within his rights.



  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The cases are not comparable. First, we're talking about different stages during the pandemic, when different rules applied. Second, we know now that there was widespread, long-term and repeated rule-breaking at No. 10, including late-night carousing, which is nothing like having a beer with a curry while working late.
    And something which, IIRC, NHS staff were warned against.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    It’s just got a lovely buzzy welcoming vibe




    Someone’s bought you a surprise trip to Dignitas? How thoughtful.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    It is quite astonishing that Boris was brought down because he let other people have a drink after work, but that work (running the country) didn’t have a loophole that allowed it, whilst Sir Keir did exactly the same and was let off, with no one considering him dodgy, for doing exactly the same thing, but after doing a job that a loophole did allow staff to drink inside afterwards.

    All while we were meant to be terrified of socialising near family and friends, and reprimanded as being thoughtless and selfish, because the virus was so contagious and deadly

    He wasn’t brought down over a drink.

    He was brought down over lying about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority and then getting cabinet ministers to repeat that lie.
    That wouldn’t have brought him down without partygate
    He survived the vote on Partygate.
    He sure did but had it not happened, he wouldn’t have been brought down by Pincher gate
    We have to disagree, lying about sexual assaults is a career ender.
    It probably isn't, sadly. But it is when it proves the last straw (and it is a pretty hefty straw, rightly).

    Johnson was already damaged by Partygate and his general unsuitedness to being PM was increasingly coming to show. Public services were struggling, the economy had taken a big hit and airy and pithy wordsmithery wasn't enough. In that context, being asked to cover up (yet) another inappropriate Johnson appointment was one ask too far for too many MPs. However, had he still been 10 points ahead in the polls, they'd have swallowed it.
    Exactly, it was the last straw. If partygate hadn’t happened, he’d probably still have been clear in the polls and survived it easily
    That's akin to saying that if he weren't addicted to lying, he might have survived.

    But he is what he is.
    The point is that he was brought down by something that Sir Keir more or less did (well he did exactly the same but was let off on a technicality), yet is distrusted by opinion poll respondents whilst SKS is probably trusted despite making the most callous and spiteful move of the whole pandemic; he literally asked for us to be locked up for longer on no evidence, crying wolf about something that he himself showed scant regard for.
    My thought is that Boris, the prime minister who actually implemented the law, should at least be expected to follow it himself. But maybe I'm just being a presumptuous oik and that Boris, loveable bounder that he is, should be excused that obligation too.
    Yes, I’ve seen that said in that sarcastic James O’Brien esque way before, and I dislike it. I’d actually disagree; the people running the country through those times should have been allowed a drink after work, they were obviously working together all day anyway, whilst we were all locked indoors.

    The point is that Sir Keir did the same but was let off on a technicality, that you can drink with people you work with if you’d been campaigning, despite simultaneously wanting us locked up for longer because of some supposed surge in infections. and people see that as ok.

    The technicality being it was not against the law. Tens of millions of people escape criminal convictions for their activities each day on the same basis.
    Boris broke the law. Starmer did not break the law. It pisses off the right, but it is what it is. Ordinarily you would blame whomever wrote the law, but in this case that was Boris...
    Yes but look what it has made you do. It has made you differentiate between the nuances of what was an absolutely absurd and illogical law. It threw up all these bonkers arrest you for walking carrying a cup of coffee "offences" and here you are defending it. Where I don't differ but perhaps add to @Isam's point is that the whole thing was an aberration and violation of our democratic principles. And Boris got caught by it and SKS narrowly avoided it and good because it will help to contribute to a future whereby no politician should ever for the tiniest moment consider introducing such illiberal laws again.

    And all, I of course need to add, cheered on by the British public.

    It was shocking.

    As an anthology there should be a collection of @contrarian's posts on PB at the time. Absolutely spot on. I half disagree about the first lockdown because we genuinely didn't know what we were dealing with and the govt looked at Northern Italy and the hospital trolleys and thought O fuck but apart from that every single thing that @contrarian wrote, from the social, legal, economic consequences of the government actions were absolutely bang on.
    Yes. Well said

    @contrarian has been entirely vindicated

    As, coincidentally, has my semi schizophrenic brother in Peru. He kept pointing out to me the insanity of lockdowns and I kept saying (albeit with decreasing conviction) “well we can’t be sure” - by the third lockdown I was very quiet

    He was right. You are right. The first lockdown was needed but after that it should all have been voluntary and FFS we should have kept schools open
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited December 2023
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have said often enough - because it is true - that conflicts of interest are at the heart of most scandals. Yesterday's evidence at the Post Office Inquiry provides yet another example. Two in fact.

    The investigators were given bonuses based on how much money they recovered from subpostmasters. So of course they had no incentive to find out the cause of the discrepancies and every incentive to pursue them for money. No wonder they did no proper investigations.

    Added to that the Post Office had to pay money to Fujitsu to get the necessary information to find out what was happening so they had an extra incentive not to to investigate and not to disclose.

    Christ knows who signed off on such an egregiously bad policy. The senior lawyers probably. I have no polite words for those responsible, whoever they are.

    As yesterday’s witness, who unlike many that have been before, didn’t seem to be a complete idiot, said, Fujitsu were on a very favourable deal, being paid a penny for every single transaction done at every sub post office in the country, and then able to charge the Post Office extra whenever they needed to look at their own data.
    The data stuff gets me totally confused.

    Surely there was a data dictionary supplied, and the software was running on PO hardware, to which their admins could run SQL queries either directly or from an approved report designer?

    It was a bespoke piece of software, not something Fujitsu expected to sell to anyone else. Did they host it all themselves, and put a bunch of additional charges in the contract that the PO thought they’d never have to pay in practice?

    The lessons in general, of public sector procurement learned here, will be significant. Did the PO actually have database-as-a-service where every query had a cost attached?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:


    Clare Wilson
    @ClareWilsonMed
    A PR firm has just sent me a list of the "best countries to move to, to lose weight", because they have lowest national BMI, and their number one country is Ethiopia

    :o

    Speaking of weight loss - I’m on Wegovy after trying Ozempic. Definitely lost some weight … but much more interestingly it has really changed my desire for booze

    I reckon it’s roughly halved my intake. I still enjoy a glass - or indeed several - but then I stop. My desire is sated much quicker. Its truly odd

    These things could be absolute wonder drugs as long as it doesn’t turn out they all give you brain cancer
    We're grateful for the current guinea pigs engaged in the large scale, long term trial which will help determine that.

    So thanks.
    I'm confused (or perhaps Leon is). Ozempic is Wegovy. Both are semaglutide.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Nigelb said:

    Quite interesting Ashcroft polling on the nuances of US public perceptions in supporting Israel and Ukraine, and how Trump fans differ:

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2023/12/my-latest-us-polling-and-what-it-means-on-ukraine/

    What should we make of the cancellation of Zelensky's speech to the Senate? While there are Senators who are sceptical about Ukraine funding, the main obstacle is the House, so I'm not sure why he called it off.

    Probably because of this:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4343929-senate-republicans-ukraine-funding-tempers-flare-classified-briefing/
    The US / Ukraine situation is entirely based on money politically, when most of the actual aid being sent to Ukraine is simply transfers of old stockpiles of kit that was about to be scrapped anyway, with the numbers making no sense whatsoever in reality.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    I'd never call Johnson 'generally trustworthy'. But neither would I call him 'generally untrustworthy'.

    I'd also not blindly 'trust' anyone else giving evidence to this inquiry. This whole thing is turning into a massive CYA exercise where many try to shift blame onto others. Good on the few people who do actually admit they made mistakes...

    If you don't consider Johnson "generally untrustworthy" you've really not been paying attention. He's probably the most untrustworthy person in public life for the last several decades.
    I refer the dishonourable gentleman to my comments about Johnson going back for at least seven years. I am no fan of Johnson's. But as for your last sentence - I would raise you Mandleson or Campbell.
    Not in the same league.
    Really? I'd beg to differ on that.
    Quite. Mandelson resigning twice from Government over misdemeaners. Campbell heavily involved in the 'dodgy' dossier and the outing of David Kelly, which led to the poor guy committing suicide.
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