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What a difference a year makes – politicalbetting.com

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  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,241

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially
    where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    Nah - blaming thatcher is garbage. She quit 33 years ago. One third of a century

    If there has been a lack of maintenance since then it’s not her fault
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    They continued as they went through Germany. French officers just turned a blind eye.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,080

    Leon said:

    PB’s mulish determination that Elon Musk is just some “bullshitting” sales guy who got lucky is one of its more amusing quirks. Long may it continue; it fills the awkward space between the first and second gin and tonic quite perfectly

    Ah, my second gin and tonic!

    Curiously though Bill Gates was the richest man on earth for many years, but I don't ever remember anyone claiming him to be a technological super-brain and maverick entrepreneurial genius. In fact his 'getting lucky' (thanks to some short-sighted blunders by IBM) is the stuff of legend.
    Whatever other talents these uber rich people have and whatever differentiates them, their ruthlessness as business people to exploit an opportunity seems a lot more relevant than intellectual genius, technological or engineering skill, or even luck. The latter very useful, but requires skills to exploit fully.
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    Also on "our" side were the Soviet troops who attacked German women in 1945.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    Also on "our" side were the Soviet troops who attacked German women in 1945.
    At the same time, women in the Red Army often preferred to kill themselves, rather than be taken prisoner by Axis soldiers, for obvious reasons.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    EdmundinTokyo once said something to the effect that Musk was a bullshitter who occasionally delivers. For a long time that was pretty much everything one needed to know about him. Since then Musk had added far-right enabling fuckpig to his CV but EiT's pithy five word sketch is still accurate.

    lol

    A bullshitter who occasionally delivers is the twat down the pub who tells endless lies but occasionally sells a car for a decent profit, or is able to flip a house to make a tidy sum, once in a while

    Musk is the richest man in the world, who decides the fate of wars, via his very own satellite network. That’s a bit more than “occasionally delivering”

    Now go back to your Box Set of Mrs Brown’s Boys
    To put this in context
    • Blue Origin intends to build the rocket New Glenn. It was founded in 2000 and New Glenn has not yet flown
    • Lilium intends to build the Lilium VTOL flying taxi. It was founded in 2015 and Lilium has not yet flown
    • SpaceDev/SNC/SierraSpace intends to build the Dream Chaser small shuttle. It started in 2010 and Dream Chaser has not yet flown
    • Boom intends to build the Boom Overture supersonic bizjet. It was founded in 2014 and Overture has not yet flown
    All these things are wonderful, advanced and some will fly. But the cadence is obviously very low. Absent Musk, the aerospace scene devolves to something much slower and less advanced
  • Apols if covered before:

    When judging support for independence in opinion polls, it’s important to understand the importance of how the question is asked.

    12% of “Yes” supporters (a small but highly significant 5% of the Scottish electorate) explicitly believe that Scotland “can become an independent country and remain inside the United Kingdom”.

    Asking people if they support Scottish independence by using the traditional Yes/No question adds at least 5 and perhaps as many as 7 percentage points to observed support for independence (compared to asking a more neutral Remain/Leave question).

    When judging public opinion towards independence – or if there is ever to be another referendum – this evidence of pro-independence bias when using the Yes/No question cannot be ignored.


    https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i389/its_the_way_you_ask_them.aspx
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,080
    edited December 2023
    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    kjh said:

    In business it can often be down to marketing and luck. I am aware of an operating system at the time that knocked DOS into a cocked hat. Where is it now? Well dead because the supplier was so convinced they had the best product they kept it proprietary to their machines. DOS went on the PC and hey presto we have Microsoft.

    Apple being an example of luck and timing the other way. They briefly licensed the OS for other hardware, but Jobs cancelled it shortly before taking the company stratospheric...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424


    Certainly feels like it’s broken sometimes. We’ve just had our post for the week. What used to be daily seems now to be weekly.
    I wish I could get official bodies like hospitals to use email!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Anyhoo, as we seem to be doing Musk again, we have to point out that Cybertruck released yesterday. Reviews are very good: build quality is good especially in the interior, the speed is outstanding and will beat anything in a quarter-mile drag race including supercars. The price for 2024 is set to $80-100,000. It beats anything in its use case and will pick up many fanboy sales outside those cases (some will buy and park on drives for status). Approx 250,000 will be built in year 1 (estimated) and I think they'll sell them all.

    Sandy Monroe's analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnVZoU-mcMU
    Jason Cammisa's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    Which is why Richi loves him so much

    Cut from the same cloth...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    The question arises as to what Elon Musk would have to do to convince people, especially low level geeks and engineers, that he’s “actually quite good at engineering”

    Build a Maglev to Neptune? Turn himself into a seventeen kilometre high trillionaire tungsten zombie hybrid able to create Black Holes with his testicles? Defeat Death with a Sinclair Spectrum?

    Because if what he’s done so far isn’t enough then he must feel, quite frankly, like giving up

    I'm not disputing that he's good at engineering. He doesn't understand media, specifically social media, though. TwiTX's 13% decline in regular US users and 19% decline in revenue does not scream business genius and gives ammunition to his detractors. If he stuck to what he's good at and knew when to STFU occasionally (not suggesting completely) then he would be a far less polarising figure.
    Yes I agree with much of that

    Contrary to the absurd claims of @JosiasJessop I actually think Musk is quite BAD at the business stuff (hence his botched deal for Twitter) and he is definitely bad at the people stuff. He’s an Aspie. He says insulting and stupid things even if he doesn’t quite mean to

    He IS a genius inventor, entrepreneur and engineer, something of a visionary, who should hire a better PR team and stop tweeting so much, especially about contentious politics
    Big question is- where does human progress come from? One or two geniuses in a generation, the top one percent, the top ten percent? Or more broadly than that? How much is it about being smart enough and very lucky to be in the right place at the right time faced with the right question? Someone wrote of Crick and Watson that yes they were clever, but they were lucky to stumble across something to be clever about.

    And linked to that, something Scott Adams said before he went down the Trumpite rabbit hole. The key job of managers is to eliminate the assholes. No amount of technical skill outweighs acting badly to your colleagues. Had he not started with quite so much money (which, after all, is a company's real most valuable asset), that would have been Musk's epitaph.
    See discussion a few days ago involving myself and @Sean_F (we were agreeing). Although it looks like the one or two geniuses in a generation it is not. With most big discoveries there are several others in parallel, or just behind (or even in front, but who don't get the breaks). Obvious examples that spring to mind are Evolution, Calculus, Flight, etc. In business it can often be down to marketing and luck. I am aware of an operating system at the time that knocked DOS into a cocked hat. Where is it now? Well dead because the supplier was so convinced they had the best product they kept it proprietary to their machines. DOS went on the PC and hey presto we have Microsoft.

    I have no idea what the percentage is though, but I suspect still quite small even after what I have said.
    At the same time, one needs systems that can nurture this talent. No society is ever going to be a perfect meritocracy, but it needs to be partially one.

    To my mind, the key turning point for humanity came in the late 18th century. For all their brutality, the revolutions that swept Europe, America, and the Caribbean from 1776 to 1830 set humanity on a happier path.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805

    .

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    EdmundinTokyo once said something to the effect that Musk was a bullshitter who occasionally delivers. For a long time that was pretty much everything one needed to know about him. Since then Musk had added far-right enabling fuckpig to his CV but EiT's pithy five word sketch is still accurate.

    lol

    A bullshitter who occasionally delivers is the twat down the pub who tells endless lies but occasionally sells a car for a decent profit, or is able to flip a house to make a tidy sum, once in a while

    Musk is the richest man in the world, who decides the fate of wars, via his very own satellite network. That’s a bit more than “occasionally delivering”

    Now go back to your Box Set of Mrs Brown’s Boys
    To put this in context
    • Blue Origin intends to build the rocket New Glenn. It was founded in 2000 and New Glenn has not yet flown
    • Lilium intends to build the Lilium VTOL flying taxi. It was founded in 2015 and Lilium has not yet flown
    • SpaceDev/SNC/SierraSpace intends to build the Dream Chaser small shuttle. It started in 2010 and Dream Chaser has not yet flown
    • Boom intends to build the Boom Overture supersonic bizjet. It was founded in 2014 and Overture has not yet flown
    All these things are wonderful, advanced and some will fly. But the cadence is obviously very low. Absent Musk, the aerospace scene devolves to something much slower and less advanced
    It’s the ability to push stuff up the TRL levels



    It is, incidentally, something that U.K. business is utterly terrible at. Turning inventions into products.
    So true. If we had one or two Musks our economic future would be materially different.
  • What gets me is that on today's Modern Dynamic Thrusting Railway there is zero coordination. I can almost understand the "fuck you" lack of ticket acceptance by LNER of cancelled (and stranded) Lumo and Grand Central services. But Network Rail?

    I can see 5 delayed services arriving overnight into Kings Cross. 02:15, 02:54, 03:05, 03;46, 04:17. Network Rail manage the station which is closed overnight. And yep - they kept it closed.

    5 trains of exhausted people arriving painfully late (more than 6 hours in 1 case), being first locked inside the station and then thrown out onto the street by security. Including the refugees who had ben thrown out onto the platform at Retford earlier.

    This country is broken.

    The country’s not broken.

    There is just now accountability or sense of responsibility to end clients in large parts of the public or quasi-public sector

    In this case it sounds like there was no one with the authority to open the station on the ground. Fair enough.

    So there should have been an escalation procedure. The station manager should have come in to oversee a solution.

    There nothing fundamentally broken - but a need for a complete cultural overhaul (which is - to be fair - about the hardest change to implement!)

    British Rail certainly had its faults but was renowned for pulling stuff together in an emergency, I suppose they had more staff but also there was a kind of bloody minded pride in keeping things running and getting the job done that seems to have been killed off by privatisation, or perhaps just by modernity and a more managerial culture.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    Your comment is, itself; one long embarrassing childish tantrum

    So you don’t “like” Elon Musk because he is a “whiny crybaby”, why don’t you whine like a baby about it
  • kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    He is clearly a very brilliant man and also a dick. I don't know why this should be considered surprising.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    Which is why Richi loves him so much

    Cut from the same cloth...
    And another. This is PB’s very own cringefest
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    It's remembered in Naples well enough. There's even a song about its consequences - https://youtu.be/Lqhfdh1X_l0?si=97MZ0BpN6DkA0bQi - the "ciccio natu niro" means "child born black".

    I've seen this performed live and it is utterly mesmerising.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070

    .

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    EdmundinTokyo once said something to the effect that Musk was a bullshitter who occasionally delivers. For a long time that was pretty much everything one needed to know about him. Since then Musk had added far-right enabling fuckpig to his CV but EiT's pithy five word sketch is still accurate.

    lol

    A bullshitter who occasionally delivers is the twat down the pub who tells endless lies but occasionally sells a car for a decent profit, or is able to flip a house to make a tidy sum, once in a while

    Musk is the richest man in the world, who decides the fate of wars, via his very own satellite network. That’s a bit more than “occasionally delivering”

    Now go back to your Box Set of Mrs Brown’s Boys
    To put this in context
    • Blue Origin intends to build the rocket New Glenn. It was founded in 2000 and New Glenn has not yet flown
    • Lilium intends to build the Lilium VTOL flying taxi. It was founded in 2015 and Lilium has not yet flown
    • SpaceDev/SNC/SierraSpace intends to build the Dream Chaser small shuttle. It started in 2010 and Dream Chaser has not yet flown
    • Boom intends to build the Boom Overture supersonic bizjet. It was founded in 2014 and Overture has not yet flown
    All these things are wonderful, advanced and some will fly. But the cadence is obviously very low. Absent Musk, the aerospace scene devolves to something much slower and less advanced
    It’s the ability to push stuff up the TRL levels



    It is, incidentally, something that U.K. business is utterly terrible at. Turning inventions into products.
    Yes. And yes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    DavidL said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    EdmundinTokyo once said something to the effect that Musk was a bullshitter who occasionally delivers. For a long time that was pretty much everything one needed to know about him. Since then Musk had added far-right enabling fuckpig to his CV but EiT's pithy five word sketch is still accurate.

    lol

    A bullshitter who occasionally delivers is the twat down the pub who tells endless lies but occasionally sells a car for a decent profit, or is able to flip a house to make a tidy sum, once in a while

    Musk is the richest man in the world, who decides the fate of wars, via his very own satellite network. That’s a bit more than “occasionally delivering”

    Now go back to your Box Set of Mrs Brown’s Boys
    To put this in context
    • Blue Origin intends to build the rocket New Glenn. It was founded in 2000 and New Glenn has not yet flown
    • Lilium intends to build the Lilium VTOL flying taxi. It was founded in 2015 and Lilium has not yet flown
    • SpaceDev/SNC/SierraSpace intends to build the Dream Chaser small shuttle. It started in 2010 and Dream Chaser has not yet flown
    • Boom intends to build the Boom Overture supersonic bizjet. It was founded in 2014 and Overture has not yet flown
    All these things are wonderful, advanced and some will fly. But the cadence is obviously very low. Absent Musk, the aerospace scene devolves to something much slower and less advanced
    It’s the ability to push stuff up the TRL levels



    It is, incidentally, something that U.K. business is utterly terrible at. Turning inventions into products.
    So true. If we had one or two Musks our economic future would be materially different.
    Not exactly Musk, but someone with a set of ideas and the drive to push them through

    Some items -

    1) anything you do every damn day is a part of your core business. Bring it in house.
    2) your product will be replaced by a better one . Your choice if it is a product you make or a product someone else makes.
    3) ….

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    My god

    Al Jazeera English is relentless Gaza coverage 24/7

    Fuck knows what the Arab version is like. It’s as if literally nothing else is happening in the world
  • What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    It's remembered in Naples well enough. There's even a song about its consequences - https://youtu.be/Lqhfdh1X_l0?si=97MZ0BpN6DkA0bQi - the "ciccio natu niro" means "child born black".

    I've seen this performed live and it is utterly mesmerising.
    Thankyou. And sympathies for your horrific story earlier on

    As a man it is easy to forget how vulnerable women can be. But I am busily educating myself - with two daughters in their teens

    I blithely tell them to Go around the world travelling, have adventures! - which is good advice, and worked out wonderfully for me - but sweet Jesus it is so much harder for women, especially young women
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    It's remembered in Naples well enough. There's even a song about its consequences - https://youtu.be/Lqhfdh1X_l0?si=97MZ0BpN6DkA0bQi - the "ciccio natu niro" means "child born black".

    I've seen this performed live and it is utterly mesmerising.
    The regulares did much the same in Spain, and were encouraged to do so, by Queipo de Llano.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,130
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    PB’s mulish determination that Elon Musk is just some “bullshitting” sales guy who got lucky is one of its more amusing quirks. Long may it continue; it fills the awkward space between the first and second gin and tonic quite perfectly

    Ah, my second gin and tonic!

    Curiously though Bill Gates was the richest man on earth for many years, but I don't ever remember anyone claiming him to be a technological super-brain and maverick entrepreneurial genius. In fact his 'getting lucky' (thanks to some short-sighted blunders by IBM) is the stuff of legend.
    Whatever other talents these uber rich people have and whatever differentiates them, their ruthlessness as business people to exploit an opportunity seems a lot more relevant than intellectual genius, technological or engineering skill, or even luck. The latter very useful, but requires skills to exploit fully.
    Yep. Anybody who pilots a tech startup to major success and manages to stay in post rather than getting maneuvered out by the VCs must have their fair share of business ruthlessness. Case in point: Musk came into Tesla six months after it was incorporated, initially as a major investor. Four years later the two guys who'd originally incorporated the company were out, and Musk was in control... On the Bill Gates side, his co-founder Paul Allen described him as ruthless to the degree it was a character flaw and said that while Allen was struggling with cancer in the 1980s Gates was trying to dilute Allen's shareholding in the company.

    And there are definitely anecdotes about Gates' technical ability -- eg https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/06/16/my-first-billg-review/ is one about Gates and the initial tech spec for Excel BASIC.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Rape by the Imperial forces, on the other hand, was treated with indifference, by their officers.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
    Do you think “the nation” was bothered, one way or the other?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    The historiography of Wellington is a study of itself.

    - Aristo despising the commoners?
    - Appalled by the ravages of war, uses savage discipline to try and reduce the harm to commoners?
    - Regards the common soldiers as valuable? Reverse slopes, demoting commanders for excessive losses.

    After he invaded France, he found that French farmers were being savagely punished for having British gold coins in payment for crops. So he canvassed the army for convicted coiners, and started making fake French gold currency out of real gold.

    Which sums up his attitude to his army (expecting it to be full of criminals) and to how he tried to treat civilian populations (paying for supplies, even in enemy territory)

    The French army at the time either stole food from its *own people*, or issued bills of exchange which had to be massively discounted when changed into money.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited December 2023

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Wouid he tho? I’d like to think so

    But… let me play devil’s advocate. Imagine you’ve been in a terrible battle and you’ve seen half your best friends blown literally to pieces. You’ve watched their intestines fall out, you’ve felt their brains spattered on your face. Maybe you’ve come across comrades who were caught by the enemy - you’ve found them with their genitals sliced away and stuffed in their mouths

    This is not unusual. This stuff is horribly common in war

    Somehow you survive the battle and you win. After that, what is a little rape and pillage? It’s what you’ve earned. Especially if you feel the women were siding with the enemy

    I imagine it would be almost impossible to stop your army doing that. Raping and looting. And in some cases - esp the Red army marching on Berlin - it is difficult not to sympathise with the Russian troops after what Hitler inflicted on the USSR
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited December 2023
    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    But he doesn't attempt to censor opinions he doesn't like, unlike others.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    PURGE
  • Leon said:

    My god

    Al Jazeera English is relentless Gaza coverage 24/7

    Fuck knows what the Arab version is like. It’s as if literally nothing else is happening in the world

    Well, Israel has recommenced its hate-bombing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    It's remembered in Naples well enough. There's even a song about its consequences - https://youtu.be/Lqhfdh1X_l0?si=97MZ0BpN6DkA0bQi - the "ciccio natu niro" means "child born black".

    I've seen this performed live and it is utterly mesmerising.
    Thankyou. And sympathies for your horrific story earlier on

    As a man it is easy to forget how vulnerable woman can be. I am busily educating myself - with two daughters in their teens

    I blithely tell them to Go around the world travelling, have adventures! - which is good advice, and worked out wonderfully for me

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Wouid he tho? I’d like to think so

    But… let me play devil’s advocate. Imagine you’ve been in a terrible battle and you’ve seen half your best friends blown literally to pieces. You’ve watched their intestines fall out, you’ve felt their brains spattered on your face. Maybe you’ve come across comrades who were caught by the enemy - you’ve found them with their genitals sliced away and stuffed in their mouths

    This is not unusual. This stuff is horribly common in war

    Somehow you survive the battle and you win. After that, what is a little rape and pillage? It’s what you’ve earned. Especially if you feel the women were siding with the enemy

    I imagine it would be almost impossible to stop your army doing that. Raping and looting. And in some cases - esp the Red army marching on Berlin - it is difficult not to sympathise with the Russian troops after what Hitler inflicted on the USSR
    Wellington’s use of the Bloody Provosts was notorious.

    They said that you could tell, in Spain, instantly, which army had been through.

    The French would devastate the place.

    The British would leave a British soldier hanging in the marketplace, with the chicken he stole strung round his neck.

    At Badajoz, when the army went on the rampage after the assault, Wellington gave a specific order to shoot and hang until it stopped. No trials.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    edited December 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    But he doesn't attempt to censor opinions he doesn't like, unlike others.
    I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure there have been many, many examples of such during his tenure on twitter.

    https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-hypocrisy-rcna81961
    https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-users-1850570720
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-matt-taibbi-substack/673698/
    https://www.thefire.org/news/twitter-no-free-speech-haven-under-elon-musk
    https://slate.com/technology/2023/05/elon-musk-turkey-twitter-erdogan-india-modi-free-speech.html
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Wouid he tho? I’d like to think so

    But… let me play devil’s advocate. Imagine you’ve been in a terrible battle and you’ve seen half your best friends blown literally to pieces. You’ve watched their intestines fall out, you’ve felt their brains spattered on your face. Maybe you’ve come across comrades who were caught by the enemy - you’ve found them with their genitals sliced away and stuffed in their mouths

    This is not unusual. This stuff is horribly common in war

    Somehow you survive the battle and you win. After that, what is a little rape and pillage? It’s what you’ve earned. Especially if you feel the women were siding with the enemy

    I imagine it would be almost impossible to stop your army doing that. Raping and looting. And in some cases - esp the Red army marching on Berlin - it is difficult not to sympathise with the Russian troops after what Hitler inflicted on the USSR
    Axis soldiers, among their many atrocities, raped millions of Soviet women. For the Red Army, in Eastern Germany, it was payback time.

    That said, Polish women were also raped, and indeed women in the Red Army and Communist Party. Some communist leaders (eg Beria) thought they had a licence to rape.

    British soldiers in Spain certainly raped, but they were executed for it. It was impossible to prevent pillage.
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    In 1857-58, rape was used as a weapon of war by both sides during the Indian Rebellion*/Mutiny*/War of Independence*.

    * delete as appropriate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Wouid he tho? I’d like to think so

    But… let me play devil’s advocate. Imagine you’ve been in a terrible battle and you’ve seen half your best friends blown literally to pieces. You’ve watched their intestines fall out, you’ve felt their brains spattered on your face. Maybe you’ve come across comrades who were caught by the enemy - you’ve found them with their genitals sliced away and stuffed in their mouths

    This is not unusual. This stuff is horribly common in war

    Somehow you survive the battle and you win. After that, what is a little rape and pillage? It’s what you’ve earned. Especially if you feel the women were siding with the enemy

    I imagine it would be almost impossible to stop your army doing that. Raping and looting. And in some cases - esp the Red army marching on Berlin - it is difficult not to sympathise with the Russian troops after what Hitler inflicted on the USSR
    Axis soldiers, among their many atrocities, raped millions of Soviet women. For the Red Army, in Eastern Germany, it was payback time.

    That said, Polish women were also raped, and indeed women in the Red Army and Communist Party. Some communist leaders (eg Beria) thought they had a licence to rape.

    British soldiers in Spain certainly raped, but they were executed for it. It was impossible to prevent pillage.
    I imagine rape after battle is absolutely the rule rather than the exception, sadly. If you’ve nearly died at the hands of your enemy, then all normal notions of respect and morality must seem nonsensical
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    edited December 2023
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    But he doesn't attempt to censor opinions he doesn't like, unlike others.
    I don't think that's true. I'm pretty sure there have been many, many examples of such during his tenure on twitter.

    https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-hypocrisy-rcna81961
    https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-users-1850570720
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/04/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-matt-taibbi-substack/673698/
    https://www.thefire.org/news/twitter-no-free-speech-haven-under-elon-musk
    https://slate.com/technology/2023/05/elon-musk-turkey-twitter-erdogan-india-modi-free-speech.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/16/business/media/elon-musk-twitter-journalist-suspension.html
    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-blocked-journalists-twitter/
    https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punjab-amritpal-singh/
    https://futurism.com/elon-musk-twitter-censors-turkey
    https://forward.com/culture/555903/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech-defamation/
    https://www.salon.com/2022/12/19/elon-musks-censorship-spree-exposes-the-fundamental-flaw-in-the-rights-definition-of-free-speech/
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:



    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    That's horrible.

    Wellington would have strung them up by the yardarm the morning after, not particularly caring which ones, and indeed did after Badajoz.
    Wouid he tho? I’d like to think so

    But… let me play devil’s advocate. Imagine you’ve been in a terrible battle and you’ve seen half your best friends blown literally to pieces. You’ve watched their intestines fall out, you’ve felt their brains spattered on your face. Maybe you’ve come across comrades who were caught by the enemy - you’ve found them with their genitals sliced away and stuffed in their mouths

    This is not unusual. This stuff is horribly common in war

    Somehow you survive the battle and you win. After that, what is a little rape and pillage? It’s what you’ve earned. Especially if you feel the women were siding with the enemy

    I imagine it would be almost impossible to stop your army doing that. Raping and looting. And in some cases - esp the Red army marching on Berlin - it is difficult not to sympathise with the Russian troops after what Hitler inflicted on the USSR
    Axis soldiers, among their many atrocities, raped millions of Soviet women. For the Red Army, in Eastern Germany, it was payback time.

    That said, Polish women were also raped, and indeed women in the Red Army and Communist Party. Some communist leaders (eg Beria) thought they had a licence to rape.

    British soldiers in Spain certainly raped, but they were executed for it. It was impossible to prevent pillage.
    I imagine rape after battle is absolutely the rule rather than the exception, sadly. If you’ve nearly died at the hands of your enemy, then all normal notions of respect and morality must seem nonsensical
    Not necessarily after pitched battle, but very often after a siege and taking a city by storm (which is usually a far worse experience). At Badajoz, the British took 4,000 casualties fighting through a hole in the wall, and were in no mood for mercy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    Also on "our" side were the Soviet troops who attacked German women in 1945.
    At the same time, women in the Red Army often preferred to kill themselves, rather than be taken prisoner by Axis soldiers, for obvious reasons.
    Most of us have never lived through a war that affected every home and millions of soldiers, and few of us have relatives who lived through occupation. I think we underestimate the savagery that is unleashed. My Russian-born mother regarded the rape and looting by the Russians in Berlin as excellent, even mild, retaliation for the slaughter of 10% of the Russian population and the starvation of her own cousin in the siege of Leningrad. My uncle, a senior British officer, said that killing prisoners was commonplace if it wasn't practical to transport them to rear areas: he regretted it but saw it as a fact of life.

    The conclusion shouldn't be that we therefore think that rape and murder are OK in a war, but that we recognise what happens and embrace war less readily - we too easily talk of "projecting British force" into areas that we don't understand and calmly envisage wars going on for years when a messy cease-fire might be the least bad option. Sometimes it isn't, and we have to fight on - Britain in WW2 springs to mind - but it should always be seen as utterly horrible and filled with vile incidents like these.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    I suppose the main reason I don't like Musk as a person is he is such a whiny crybaby, he's a complete snowflake. He's the richest man in the world but he wants to act like an oppressed teenager who is fighting against the man, who wants to posture as some moral figure, but then lashes out emotionally whenever anyone even mildly critiques him. It's just so childish and petty, which is rather disappointing as we tend to image billionaires as being controlled and powerful, even when they are arses.

    But I'm very happy to praise his companies when they deliver, and wish he'd do more of that kind of disruption and less time crying about people being mean to him by, er, not giving him money to advertise. It's sad to see some people online crowing about his 'F*ck you' comments, when its clear he very much does care what they do, that's why he has gotten so upset.

    Just write some goth poety or something Elon, for christ's sake.

    But he doesn't attempt to censor opinions he doesn't like, unlike others.
    In all seriousness, given the magnitude and frequency of Musk's censorship of content, why did you think he didn't?
  • Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Sean_F said:

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
    Do you think “the nation” was bothered, one way or the other?
    I don't think so in part because I'm not sure the media want to focus on it. It does seem to suggest that HRH is self righteous and entitled as many have previously speculated and is problematic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    Jason Cammisa being interviewed about the Cybertruck
    The interviewer is an idiot. Jason Cammisa is not.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjIPEtegPt4
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    Sorry, but I have to disagree. There is nobody better than the King to reassure Greece, and the rest of the world, that Britain is not the nasty, small minded, racist country that the Tories would make them think we are.
    With a non-white Prime minister and Home secretary?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Sean_F said:

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
    Do you think “the nation” was bothered, one way or the other?
    I don't think so in part because I'm not sure the media want to focus on it. It does seem to suggest that HRH is self righteous and entitled as many have previously speculated and is problematic.
    I doubt that Charles and I would find much common ground, and I find it hard to admire him at a personal level.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just to correct myself it appears the UN has now belatedly started to raise the issue of sexual violence on 7 October. Only two months after the date.

    And in the context of resumed hostilities:

    We deeply regret that military operations have resumed in Gaza, and we reiterate that all women, Israeli women, Palestinian women, as all others, are entitled to a life lived in safety and free from violence.

    We unequivocally condemn the brutal attacks by Hamas on Israel on 7 October. We are alarmed by the numerous accounts of gender-based atrocities and sexual violence during those attacks. This is why we have called for all accounts of gender-based violence to be duly investigated and prosecuted, with the rights of the victim at the core.


    https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/statement/2023/12/un-women-statement-on-the-situation-in-israel-and-gaza

    I don't think Hamas raped and murdered women and children because of their "gender" - but because of their "sex".
    TERF! :LOL:
    There is a sick joke about a Hamas member discovering that….

    No, I think I have found a limit.
    TBF, through history male rape has also been common in warfare. Although not much talked about, sadly. e.g.:

    "While most victims of sexual offences perpetrated by US servicemen during the Second World War were women and girls, rape and sexual assault of men and boys were not uncommon. 75 such cases are examined here. "

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0022009420925874

    +others.

    This is not to take anything away from rape of women and girls; just that it is somewhat more complex than that.
    You are right to mention this. The common factor of course is that it is men doing the raping.


    The other day I read the unspoken-of history of rape by French North African soldiers in the invasion of Italy in 1944

    No one likes to talk of it because it was “our” side

    The stories are indescribably horrific

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
    Or the Red Army raping its way through Nazi Germany at the end of the war, or the rapes in the war leading to the break-up of Yugoslavia.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    Who knows what the real numbers are. In the Hamas numbers there will be some terrorists. Every Gaza resident has some responsibility for Hamas. After WW2 the Germans really did work this out.
  • What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    Sorry, but I have to disagree. There is nobody better than the King to reassure Greece, and the rest of the world, that Britain is not the nasty, small minded, racist country that the Tories would make them think we are.
    With a non-white Prime minister and Home secretary?
    Non-whites can still be nasty, small-minded and racist!
  • Leon said:

    PB’s mulish determination that Elon Musk is just some “bullshitting” sales guy who got lucky is one of its more amusing quirks. Long may it continue; it fills the awkward space between the first and second gin and tonic quite perfectly

    Ah, my second gin and tonic!

    Curiously though Bill Gates was the richest man on earth for many years, but I don't ever remember anyone claiming him to be a technological super-brain and maverick entrepreneurial genius. In fact his 'getting lucky' (thanks to some short-sighted blunders by IBM) is the stuff of legend.
    Many did. Arguably Gates fanbois also began the trend of Aspergers diagnosis (like, erm, Elon Musk). It has been observed that almost all tech billionaires made their fortunes in about a decade in the United States.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    Are we allowed to do previous Israel-Gaza conflicts?



  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    Sorry, but I have to disagree. There is nobody better than the King to reassure Greece, and the rest of the world, that Britain is not the nasty, small minded, racist country that the Tories would make them think we are.
    With a non-white Prime minister and Home secretary?
    Rishi Sunak and James Cleverly are white. Because reality is wrong.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    I do think that monarchists try to have it both ways. If we appoint our Head of State by heredity, then we have absolutely no power to dictate how they behave. They may choose to abide by constitutional propriety. They may give subtle and ambiguous hints, as in this case. They may express their views outright. If we support a system that chooses our leader effectively at random with no recourse, then we have to suck it up. I like Charles' views on environmentalism and multi-faith respect and dislike his views on fox-hunting and architecture, but I accept that either way he can do what he likes.

    That's why it's a silly system.
    What do you dislike about his views on architecture?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Genocide doesn't stick but Ethnic Cleansing probably does. That's the imaginary charge to be bringing in an imaginary court for a good chance of an imaginary conviction.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    The thing is that with the level of destruction visible in Gaza and half the population there under 18, a figure of 16 000 is very plausible, with 6 000 children dead.

    I suspect far more will die after the shooting and bombing stops because of disease and the destruction of health, water and sewage infrastructure. That is usually the case in the aftermath of war.

    Argue that it is justifiable retaliation for Hamas's brutal atrocities by all means, but I think the Gazan casualty figures are probably correct.
  • Sean_F said:

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
    Do you think “the nation” was bothered, one way or the other?
    Not massively bothered, but they'd prefer their PM not act like a twit. I suspect Chuck appreciated this and decided to make his subtle, sartorial hint: 'We are not Rishi.'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,886
    edited December 2023
    Australia is the place to be. The Telegraph reports Jeremy Hunt is looking at the Australian pension system, and yesterday that Wes Streeting was pinching ideas from Australia's healthcare system.

    ‘Aussies do it better’: why Jeremy Hunt is casting an envious eye Down Under
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/02/jeremy-hunt-mimick-australia-pension-supercharge-uk/ (£££)

    Why Labour believes Australia has the answer to fixing the NHS
    During visit to Sydney to see ‘urgent care’ neighbourhood clinics, Wes Streeting hails country's approach: spending less but achieving more
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/01/wes-streeting-australia-sydney-nhs-urgent-care-clinic-labor/ (£££)


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    FYI - I'm not really here this weekend, so if anything major does happen this weekend, I'm not ignoring it I'm just knackered.

    Ive just become a grandfather again does that count as major ?
    Congratulations (and yes it does.)

    It was pointed to me that I could legally be a grandfather in just over two years, that made me feel officially middle aged.
    You could legally be a *great-grandfather* in a couple of years.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    Are we allowed to do previous Israel-Gaza conflicts?



    Makes you wonder just how stupid Gazans are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    Are we allowed to do previous Israel-Gaza conflicts?



    Makes you wonder just how stupid Gazans are.
    Yes, or how desperate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, my attempted trip to town utterly failed. We are snowed in. 20 cms of snow outside the door. No cars moving.

    I have to get on a train to London by Monday. Eek!

    Skis?
    I'm going to have to charm a local with a 4WD.
    Or a helicopter!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    The thing is that with the level of destruction visible in Gaza and half the population there under 18, a figure of 16 000 is very plausible, with 6 000 children dead.

    I suspect far more will die after the shooting and bombing stops because of disease and the destruction of health, water and sewage infrastructure. That is usually the case in the aftermath of war.

    Argue that it is justifiable retaliation for Hamas's brutal atrocities by all means, but I think the Gazan casualty figures are probably correct.
    Their figures have tended to check out in past conflicts.
  • What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    I do think that monarchists try to have it both ways. If we appoint our Head of State by heredity, then we have absolutely no power to dictate how they behave. They may choose to abide by constitutional propriety. They may give subtle and ambiguous hints, as in this case. They may express their views outright. If we support a system that chooses our leader effectively at random with no recourse, then we have to suck it up. I like Charles' views on environmentalism and multi-faith respect and dislike his views on fox-hunting and architecture, but I accept that either way he can do what he likes.

    That's why it's a silly system.
    Quite so, supporters of the monarchy tend to be fine with whichever HRH happpens to be in charge saying stuff they agree with political or not, eg voters should 'think very carefully about the future'.

    I even remember some righties cheering on a conservative (& presumably to some extent patriotic/nationalist) government increasing its hold in Greece..

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    Are we allowed to do previous Israel-Gaza conflicts?



    Makes you wonder just how stupid Gazans are.
    Or how bloodthirsty the Israeli government are?
  • Anyway, speaking of unelected figures trying to exert influence and control the narrative



    https://x.com/davidyelland/status/1730889580381970592?s=20


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618

    Anyway, speaking of unelected figures trying to exert influence and control the narrative

    Who won the last election?
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Al Jaz English is titling its overall coverage

    “Gaza Genocide”

    Fairly plain, that. Not war or conflict but “genocide”

    Test:


    Israel’s assault on Gaza is brutal and bloody - and often extremely hard to justify, if not impossible

    But it doesn’t fit any definition of genocide that I know
    And given we now know that the hospital bomb killing 500 was a complete lie we really shouldn't be speculating on casualty figures.

    Not that I'm naive, the suffering is obviously huge.
    If you have more accurate casualty figures, I'm all ears.

    As it stands, 92% of all deaths in this conflict are Gazans.
    Er, not as far as I am concerned. If the figures come from a completely unreliable source just ignore them. It's pointless.
    Are we allowed to do previous Israel-Gaza conflicts?



    Makes you wonder just how stupid Gazans are.
    Gazans are not Hamas. Jews are not Israel.
  • New thread

  • Foreign criminals will serve shorter sentences than Britons under new plan
    Proposals for overseas citizens to be freed from UK jails and deported up to 18 months early are criticised by House of Lords committee
    ...
    It means that if a British man and a Polish man run a drugs gang together, and both get six-year sentences, the Briton would serve three years in jail while the Pole could serve only one-and-a-half years before being sent home. He would not have to serve time in Poland, but would be barred from returning to the UK.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/02/foreign-criminals-shorter-sentences-alex-chalk-freed-jail/ (£££)
  • Anyway, speaking of unelected figures trying to exert influence and control the narrative

    Who won the last election?
    The Conservative party.

    The here today gone tomorrow politician who led it at the time ran away from any political mandate on 12/06/23.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    I thought it was a good idea, and it seems to have soothed things with Greece somewhat who saw the funny side. Personally I want to see good relations with Greece and don't want that jeopardised simply because Rishi made a fool of himself with a botched culture-war stunt. The King was speaking for the nation here - not Rishi or the Tory Party - which is absolutely his job.
    You know no more than I do what went on but I notice you can't even be bothered to challenge your own political biases, happy to assume the facts fit your assumptions from your comfortable sofa. 'Speaking for the nation' is just an abstract concept. There may be occasions where a clear majority take a view but you don't undermine your own government. I can't wait for a Labur government to take some unpopular decisions (e.g development) and see how people react if the King tries to subtly undermine them.

    It's worse than that though. I am a civil servant. We are servants of the crown. We are expected to serve his Majesty's government whether we personally agree with policies or not. The example should be set from the top. If we are no longer able to produce high quality impartial bureaucrats we'll simply end up going down the American route of having thousands of appointees. Richard Tice of Reform is already advocating this. We are degenerating to a form of politics that is no more sophisticated than loyalty to one's football team.
    But there were no great political considerations involved. Rishi just made a complete and utter berk of himself. The nation enjoyed a rare but joyous moment of unity by agreeing with this.
    Do you think “the nation” was bothered, one way or the other?
    I don't think so in part because I'm not sure the media want to focus on it. It does seem to suggest that HRH is self righteous and entitled as many have previously speculated and is problematic.
    I doubt that Charles and I would find much common ground, and I find it hard to admire him at a personal level.
    Likewise and, yet, I don't think he's done too badly as reigning monarch so far. I also do think he works hard.

    And I've been impressed at how firmly he's dealt with Andrew and MM/Harry.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    What a stupid decision by King Charles to wear a Greek tie to the COP summit. I simply don't believe it was a coincidence. Wherever his sympathies may lie in the current debate he should not be making public statements. Unlike the rest of us he gets to meet the PM every week where he can air his views IN PRIVATE.

    None of us know the full details of what went on in this 'spat' but I was surprised to see George Osborne suggest the PM had a 'hissy fit'. Still George is well known for his grudges (remember what he said about Teresa May) and is hardly the most trustworthy figure. He's always had a snarky, snide aspect to him and I suspect that the man who saw himself as the central figure in the senior prefect's study is less than happy having been stepped over by a junior boy.

    He's only had about 70 years to observe the Queen and see how to do the job.
This discussion has been closed.