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What a difference a year makes – politicalbetting.com

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  • I've just fallen down a conspiracy rabbithole.
    Apparently, JFK Jr (dead for nearly a quarter of a century) is about to make himself known to the people and become Trump's running mate. I've just waded through a Facebook post that popped up on my feed, it was over 3k comments. Right wing religious fruitcakery at its finest, all certain that it's happening, quoting "facts" and praising Jesus and God, blaming the Clintons, Obama, Gates, George Clooney.. then it swung into flat earth, NASA and even welcomed back Princess Diana (who is apparently very much alive and well and a close friend of JFK Jr and is saving children from adrenochrome harvesting)
    If this is a fair representation of a large chunk of the US, they probably need nuking from orbit.

    IME it can be people sh*tposting on a stupid 'story', egged on by a fair number of trolls. The number of people who really believe it all will be few.

    But there is a worrying amount of religiosity and ignoring science around, especially, it seems, in parts of the US. When combined with an inability to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they'd like it, it can be a dangerously heady mix.
    A lot of it is probably subsidised by the same outfit that sponsors the trolls that appear here from time to time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Jonathan said:

    I've just fallen down a conspiracy rabbithole.
    Apparently, JFK Jr (dead for nearly a quarter of a century) is about to make himself known to the people and become Trump's running mate. I've just waded through a Facebook post that popped up on my feed, it was over 3k comments. Right wing religious fruitcakery at its finest, all certain that it's happening, quoting "facts" and praising Jesus and God, blaming the Clintons, Obama, Gates, George Clooney.. then it swung into flat earth, NASA and even welcomed back Princess Diana (who is apparently very much alive and well and a close friend of JFK Jr and is saving children from adrenochrome harvesting)
    If this is a fair representation of a large chunk of the US, they probably need nuking from orbit.

    There’s some mad stuff out there. I read a story in which Liz Truss became Prime Minister
    Nah. That was Elvis in Mission Impossible style disguise.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589
    edited December 2023

    The basic Tory problem is that people have decided it's Time for a Change, and are no longer paying attention to the details. And "Does 2p off NI but frozen PA mean you're better or worse off?" comes under the heading of detail. Possibly Truss had the right idea in principle - they have to do dramatic stuff to make anyone even listen.

    Similarly, I was chatting to a politically-informed friend living alone and we were both surprised that we'd had £500 winter allowances, wasn't it £200? Turns out the Tories topped it up by £300 "cost of living allowance" and neither of us even noticed. Are we unusual? I suppose it'll disappear next year whoever is in power, unless the parties get into an annoying auction for "who can bribe voting pensioners most".

    If you live alone or no one you live with is eligible for the Winter Fuel Payment
    You’ll get either:

    £500 if you were born between 25 September 1943 and 24 September 1957
    £600 if you were born before 25 September 1943


    https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/how-much-youll-get
    The extra £300 the oldies are getting is part of the £900 cost of living payments:

    Eight million people on means-tested benefits, such as universal credit, were due to get £300 directly by 19 November, without the need to make a claim. It is the second of three instalments that will eventually total £900.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61592496

    Unless you get any of these benefits it can be surprising to discover how much is actually given out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra,
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogynist and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    The anti-Semitic argument about October 7 has gone from

    1. Yay Israel deserved it, to
    2. The IDF did most of it, to
    3. The stuff the IDF didn’t do, didnt happen

    I’ve seen claims that Hamas fighters ACTUALLY only killed a few dozen people - all soldiers, basically

    Quite astonishing to watch an outrageous lie become a settled theory in real time

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    There definitely is a new wave of it, but generally non-fatal. Long Covid seems to be a significant thing too, and I know people who are annoyed how little the whole political class is paying attention to that. I know a senior executive who is highly-motivated and enjoys her job, but often struggles to even walk out of the door, a year after she had the illness.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,421
    edited December 2023

    I've just fallen down a conspiracy rabbithole.
    Apparently, JFK Jr (dead for nearly a quarter of a century) is about to make himself known to the people and become Trump's running mate. I've just waded through a Facebook post that popped up on my feed, it was over 3k comments. Right wing religious fruitcakery at its finest, all certain that it's happening, quoting "facts" and praising Jesus and God, blaming the Clintons, Obama, Gates, George Clooney.. then it swung into flat earth, NASA and even welcomed back Princess Diana (who is apparently very much alive and well and a close friend of JFK Jr and is saving children from adrenochrome harvesting)
    If this is a fair representation of a large chunk of the US, they probably need nuking from orbit.

    IME it can be people sh*tposting on a stupid 'story', egged on by a fair number of trolls. The number of people who really believe it all will be few.

    But there is a worrying amount of religiosity and ignoring science around, especially, it seems, in parts of the US. When combined with an inability to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they'd like it, it can be a dangerously heady mix.
    There is absolutely a lot of trolling and piss taking, but it is genuinely worrying about the fervour that I'd say the majority show in their belief. Most of the posts were in support of it. It's a genuine movement. Flat earth and anti science is scarily prevalent and feeds on the gullible.
    Even more worrying is it creeping over here.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra,
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogynist and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    The anti-Semitic argument about October 7 has gone from

    1. Yay Israel deserved it, to
    2. The IDF did most of it, to
    3. The stuff the IDF didn’t do, didnt happen

    I’ve seen claims that Hamas fighters ACTUALLY only killed a few dozen people - all soldiers, basically

    Quite astonishing to watch an outrageous lie become a settled theory in real time

    Except it hasn't.
  • ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    More importantly, the permanent structures of government are up to their necks in it. Not just the politicians.

    It’s in no one’s interest to find out what happened. Well, no one who *matters*

    #NU10K
    As Ms CF regularly points out, it is a problem of Government not accepting responsibilty for the businesses it owns.

    It is not a Tory/Labour thing. It is not a Public/Private thing. It is all about sound, responsible management.

    I'd vote for anybody who could credibly offer that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783

    The basic Tory problem is that people have decided it's Time for a Change, and are no longer paying attention to the details. And "Does 2p off NI but frozen PA mean you're better or worse off?" comes under the heading of detail. Possibly Truss had the right idea in principle - they have to do dramatic stuff to make anyone even listen.

    Similarly, I was chatting to a politically-informed friend living alone and we were both surprised that we'd had £500 winter allowances, wasn't it £200? Turns out the Tories topped it up by £300 "cost of living allowance" and neither of us even noticed. Are we unusual? I suppose it'll disappear next year whoever is in power, unless the parties get into an annoying auction for "who can bribe voting pensioners most".

    Ditto. I got the letter a few weeks ago and then I noticed the money in my account yesterday. Not sure when it arrived. I shouldn't get it. Of course we still have the £10 Christmas bonus to arrive which in some ways is even more bonkers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra,
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogynist and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    The anti-Semitic argument about October 7 has gone from

    1. Yay Israel deserved it, to
    2. The IDF did most of it, to
    3. The stuff the IDF didn’t do, didnt happen

    I’ve seen claims that Hamas fighters ACTUALLY only killed a few dozen people - all soldiers, basically

    Quite astonishing to watch an outrageous lie become a settled theory in real time

    Except it hasn't.
    Hasn’t become a settled theory? It certainly has on TwiX and TikTok

    It is contested - but there are plenty of people punting that idea
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    edited December 2023

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra, 8 weeks pregnant with her second child, was convicted and imprisoned on her son's 10th birthday.

    Prison is too good for the likes of Singh. He should be stripped of his pension and struck off. An utter weasel.
    Yes, I saw it, Ms C, and agree with everything you say.

    The one thing Singh was good at was blathering and wasting time, which is presumably what the PO (and the Government) wants witnesses to do. I should think it won't help Singh himself though. On his Inquiry performance alone (and yes, Beer was brilliant) I should say there is a strong prima facie case for a charge of conspiring to pervert the course of justice.

    If it ever gets to the Old Bailey, I'll be in the gallery.
    PS It was hilarious when Sir Wyn Nice-Oldthing lost his rag with Singh! Now all we need is for the fireless Welshman to show similar testiness towards the Government which owns this shower of shite.
    There were many amusing moments. Singh asking for a pen and paper to help him with his answers was one such. And then Beer - utterly deadpan - saying to the judge "I can confirm that Mr Singh now has a pen and paper." In the tone of a man realising that he's questioning a particularly dim 4 year old.

    Singh's evidence can be summed up thus:

    "Beer took stock. Singh had been told to write an email, headed with a title he didn’t agree with dictated to him by someone he couldn’t remember, which he didn’t actually type and then sent to a distribution list of people he didn’t know.
    “Is that where we’ve got to?” asked Beer, a little incredulously."
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Meeks in iconoclastic mood:

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/a-series-of-unfortunate-opinions-0d6b06d7de23

    Why do people get so worked up about sktscraper architecture? If you live near a tall building you don't even notice it after a bit, and if you live/work IN it you probably get a nice view.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    darkage said:

    If you prefer incompentence over malice then your best option is probably to vote conservative. I think that the Conservatives can still probably succeed, despite all these disasters, if find a way of presenting labour as dangerous.

    Grasping at straws, Starmer dangerous?
    No the Tories need to go for their own good, but mainly for ours.
    If you want incompetence and malice combined,. Gordon Brown fits the bill
    100pc
  • Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra, 8 weeks pregnant with her second child, was convicted and imprisoned on her son's 10th birthday.

    Prison is too good for the likes of Singh. He should be stripped of his pension and struck off. An utter weasel.
    Yes, I saw it, Ms C, and agree with everything you say.

    The one thing Singh was good at was blathering and wasting time, which is presumably what the PO (and the Government) wants witnesses to do. I should think it won't help Singh himself though. On his Inquiry performance alone (and yes, Beer was brilliant) I should say there is a strong prima facie case for a charge of conspiring to pervert the course of justice.

    If it ever gets to the Old Bailey, I'll be in the gallery.
    PS It was hilarious when Sir Wyn Nice-Oldthing lost his rag with Singh! Now all we need is for the fireless Welshman to show similar testiness towards the Government which owns this shower of shite.
    There were many amusing moments. Singh asking for a pen and paper to help him with his answers was one such. And then Beer - utterly deadpan - saying to the judge "I can confirm that Mr Singh now has a pen and paper." In the tone of a man realising that he's questioning a particularly dim 4 year old.

    Singh's evidence can be summed up thus:

    "Beer took stock. Singh had been told to write an email, headed with a title he didn’t agree with dictated to him by someone he couldn’t remember, which he didn’t actually type and then sent to a distribution list of people he didn’t know.
    “Is that where we’ve got to?” asked Beer, a little incredulously."
    Forgive me for quoting another classic...

    When Singh said he did not understand Beer's question, the Barrister replied that 'It is not possible for me to arrange the words in the sentence in a clearer way'.

    This guy is becoming a superstar.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
  • Leon said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    I cited some links last night about the evermore imminent arrival of world changing AGI

    It is going to sweep away all our economic and political norms within a decade, max, and might be impacting - hugely - within the next 3-5 years

    Don’t bother putting money in a pension. It will either be worthless or everyone will be rich anyway
    Bore off
  • Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    AIUI there's a big issue with the amount of testing going down week-on-week, but the positivity rate going up.

    I fear the government really don't want to deal with another Covid wave, so they're ignoring the fact we've got one. It's yet another head-in-the-sand moment from Sunak.
    What would you like him to do?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    There definitely is a new wave of it, but generally non-fatal. Long Covid seems to be a significant thing too, and I know people who are annoyed how little the whole political class is paying attention to that. I know a senior executive who is highly-motivated and enjoys her job, but often struggles to even walk out of the door, a year after she had the illness.
    Yes I am aware of a lot of people who have had covid recently. All but one has only really had cold symptoms, although my brother in law has been really struggling with it. There are probably more who haven't tested. My cousin only tested because he was meeting someone vulnerable (so didn't). Both myself and my wife had cold symptoms a few weeks ago. I have no idea if we had a cold or covid. Just kept out of other people's way.
  • kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    "As a general rule, it's a really bad idea for politicians to tell the public that horse balls are oranges."

    This is beautifully Meeks. However is it true? You'd like to think so but one of the main things that used to bug me during the tenure of Boris Johnson was how so many people failed to bust him on all the lies he told. It was like they'd established a new and higher tolerance for outrageous mendacity. It's good to see this isn't extended to Rishi Sunak. But I hope this is people genuinely wising up rather than being unduly influenced by personality, since if it's the latter it's not really a 'lesson learnt' and we'd still be potentially easy marks for the next 'high colour, low character' politician that comes along.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    I cited some links last night about the evermore imminent arrival of world changing AGI

    It is going to sweep away all our economic and political norms within a decade, max, and might be impacting - hugely - within the next 3-5 years

    Don’t bother putting money in a pension. It will either be worthless or everyone will be rich anyway
    Bore off
    lol. I take it you’re putting money in a pension


    “We should dispense with the false idea that money is somehow relevant in an AGi future”

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1726160901999296676?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “MIRI doesn’t do 401(k) matching, because, a spokesperson explains, they believe that AI will be “so disruptive to humanity’s future—for worse or for better—that the notion of traditional retirement planning is moot.””

    https://x.com/shorttimelines/status/1730352007633129876?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Jonathan said:

    I've just fallen down a conspiracy rabbithole.
    Apparently, JFK Jr (dead for nearly a quarter of a century) is about to make himself known to the people and become Trump's running mate. I've just waded through a Facebook post that popped up on my feed, it was over 3k comments. Right wing religious fruitcakery at its finest, all certain that it's happening, quoting "facts" and praising Jesus and God, blaming the Clintons, Obama, Gates, George Clooney.. then it swung into flat earth, NASA and even welcomed back Princess Diana (who is apparently very much alive and well and a close friend of JFK Jr and is saving children from adrenochrome harvesting)
    If this is a fair representation of a large chunk of the US, they probably need nuking from orbit.

    IME it can be people sh*tposting on a stupid 'story', egged on by a fair number of trolls. The number of people who really believe it all will be few.

    But there is a worrying amount of religiosity and ignoring science around, especially, it seems, in parts of the US. When combined with an inability to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they'd like it, it can be a dangerously heady mix.
    There is absolutely a lot of trolling and piss taking, but it is genuinely worrying about the fervour that I'd say the majority show in their belief. Even more worrying is it creeping over here.
    People who propagate end of the world stuff, conspiracies and fantastical stories can’t deal with the crushing brutal reality that they are not special and the times they are living in are not important.

    They make stuff up or amplify stories to create something less mundane that makes them feel like they matter or are in some way different or insightful.
    It’s fortunate that we don’t have any people who go on about end of the world stuff and fantastical stories here on PB.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Politics is volatile. No one can predict accurately what will happen in five years time. After the 2019 election, you’d be hard pressed to predict where we are today.

    One of the myriad scenarios in the future is a Lib Dem revival. They quietly destroyed the Tories round here this year.

    It’s time to watch and listen I think.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    AIUI there's a big issue with the amount of testing going down week-on-week, but the positivity rate going up.

    I fear the government really don't want to deal with another Covid wave, so they're ignoring the fact we've got one. It's yet another head-in-the-sand moment from Sunak.
    What would you like him to do?
    At the very least, increase testing. And be *slightly* more cautious. I've no idea if the government / NHS / whatever are being more vigilant, but they should be.

    I understand that we all want Covid to be over. I do, too. It was a hateful time. But the virus really doesn't care how we feel.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,307
    Anyway despite the snow being deep and white and crisp and even, I need to go outside.

    I may be some time.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Jonathan said:

    I've just fallen down a conspiracy rabbithole.
    Apparently, JFK Jr (dead for nearly a quarter of a century) is about to make himself known to the people and become Trump's running mate. I've just waded through a Facebook post that popped up on my feed, it was over 3k comments. Right wing religious fruitcakery at its finest, all certain that it's happening, quoting "facts" and praising Jesus and God, blaming the Clintons, Obama, Gates, George Clooney.. then it swung into flat earth, NASA and even welcomed back Princess Diana (who is apparently very much alive and well and a close friend of JFK Jr and is saving children from adrenochrome harvesting)
    If this is a fair representation of a large chunk of the US, they probably need nuking from orbit.

    IME it can be people sh*tposting on a stupid 'story', egged on by a fair number of trolls. The number of people who really believe it all will be few.

    But there is a worrying amount of religiosity and ignoring science around, especially, it seems, in parts of the US. When combined with an inability to deal with the world as it is, rather than how they'd like it, it can be a dangerously heady mix.
    There is absolutely a lot of trolling and piss taking, but it is genuinely worrying about the fervour that I'd say the majority show in their belief. Even more worrying is it creeping over here.
    People who propagate end of the world stuff, conspiracies and fantastical stories can’t deal with the crushing brutal reality that they are not special and the times they are living in are not important.

    They make stuff up or amplify stories to create something less mundane that makes them feel like they matter or are in some way different or insightful.
    It’s fortunate that we don’t have any people who go on about end of the world stuff and fantastical stories here on PB.
    You’re referring to talk of Lib Dem revivals.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Well 1997, 2001, and 2005 proves that is not true.
  • Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    AIUI there's a big issue with the amount of testing going down week-on-week, but the positivity rate going up.

    I fear the government really don't want to deal with another Covid wave, so they're ignoring the fact we've got one. It's yet another head-in-the-sand moment from Sunak.
    What would you like him to do?
    The Tory party have blown the idea of a coherent epi/pandemic strategy out of the water. No one believes that a bit of paper/old knickers over your face is going to protect you (except the scared people still wearing pound shop paper masks out in the open air).
    We're not going to lock down again, because the country can't afford it, the Tory government didn't abide by it and so none of us fancy doing it again. Even vaccines don't seem to hold the appeal anymore.
    When the big one hits we could be in trouble.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra,
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogynist and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    The anti-Semitic argument about October 7 has gone from

    1. Yay Israel deserved it, to
    2. The IDF did most of it, to
    3. The stuff the IDF didn’t do, didnt happen

    I’ve seen claims that Hamas fighters ACTUALLY only killed a few dozen people - all soldiers, basically

    Quite astonishing to watch an outrageous lie become a settled theory in real time

    Except it hasn't.
    Hasn’t become a settled theory? It certainly has on TwiX and TikTok

    It is contested - but there are plenty of people punting that idea
    It would be interesting to know how many people propagating those ideas (both writing tweets, and retweeting) are actually real people expressing real views, and how many are trolls - both personal trolls, and those working for others.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Meeks in iconoclastic mood:

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/a-series-of-unfortunate-opinions-0d6b06d7de23

    Why do people get so worked up about sktscraper architecture? If you live near a tall building you don't even notice it after a bit, and if you live/work IN it you probably get a nice view.

    You’ve never been to see the Elgin Marbles. You’re not exactly an aesthete

    And that building in the pic in Spitalfields is HIDEOUS

    I disagree with Mr Meeks on the Orb, tho. We should build it. It will be fun and generate wealth
  • Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Politics is volatile. No one can predict accurately what will happen in five years time. After the 2019 election, you’d be hard pressed to predict where we are today.

    One of the myriad scenarios in the future is a Lib Dem revival. They quietly destroyed the Tories round here this year.

    It’s time to watch and listen I think.
    if you fool around with Electoral Calculus, it's not difficult to come up with a scenario in which the LDs become the Official Opposition - and the assumptions don't have to be wildly implausible, either.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Politics is volatile. No one can predict accurately what will happen in five years time. After the 2019 election, you’d be hard pressed to predict where we are today.

    One of the myriad scenarios in the future is a Lib Dem revival. They quietly destroyed the Tories round here this year.

    It’s time to watch and listen I think.
    Give them enough rope.. they are already making unpopular decisions.
  • .

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    ???

    I know a fair bit about this subject. Under Thatcher, the ECML was electrified - at the time, I believe it was the biggest construction project in Europe. BedPan (Bedford to St Pancras) was also electrified under her government. Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge occurred under her, and it was extended to King's Lynn under Major. London to Shoeburyness was electrified under Thatcher. Cross-city line in Birmingham under Major. Various local routes around Edinburgh and Leeds were also electrified under Thatcher.

    That's hundreds of miles electrified, including major routes. Between 1997 and 2010, under Blair and Brown, precisely nine miles were electrified.

    I'll praise Thatcher and Major's governments for electrifying those routes and lines, as I think it was the right thing to do. I'll criticise Sunak's government over HS2, because cancelling was the *wrong* thing.

    And I'll excoriate Blair for shouting about the WCML Upgrade (which was a failure on its own terms) and ignoring the rest of the network.

    But facts, eh?
    So lets understand why nothing was electrified shall we?
    1. Franchises were let which didn't allow for any upgrades unless stipulated
    2. The electrification teams were disbanded and equipment left to rot after privatisation. So all new people and kit would be needed for any scheme
    3. Railtrack was utterly useless at doing basic maintenance. It tried to do things like resignalling and utterly screwed it up
    4. Once Failtrack went bust, Network Rail was focused on fixing the myriad of not done infrastructure works so that people didn't get killed any more.

    Its not like Blair and Brown said "no more wires"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra,
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogynist and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    The anti-Semitic argument about October 7 has gone from

    1. Yay Israel deserved it, to
    2. The IDF did most of it, to
    3. The stuff the IDF didn’t do, didnt happen

    I’ve seen claims that Hamas fighters ACTUALLY only killed a few dozen people - all soldiers, basically

    Quite astonishing to watch an outrageous lie become a settled theory in real time

    Except it hasn't.
    Hasn’t become a settled theory? It certainly has on TwiX and TikTok

    It is contested - but there are plenty of people punting that idea
    It would be interesting to know how many people propagating those ideas (both writing tweets, and retweeting) are actually real people expressing real views, and how many are trolls - both personal trolls, and those working for others.
    This guy - Max Blumenthal - 500k followers - is one of those blaming much of October 7 on the IDF

    Causing a furore

    https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1729262572929450073?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    AIUI there's a big issue with the amount of testing going down week-on-week, but the positivity rate going up.

    I fear the government really don't want to deal with another Covid wave, so they're ignoring the fact we've got one. It's yet another head-in-the-sand moment from Sunak.
    Ah, so that’s why he’s in Dubai this week.
    Well, if I'm going to put my head in the sand, I'd quite like it to be warm sand. There's no way I'd be putting my head in the sand in Southwold today...
  • kinabalu said:

    "As a general rule, it's a really bad idea for politicians to tell the public that horse balls are oranges."

    This is beautifully Meeks. However is it true? You'd like to think so but one of the main things that used to bug me during the tenure of Boris Johnson was how so many people failed to bust him on all the lies he told. It was like they'd established a new and higher tolerance for outrageous mendacity. It's good to see this isn't extended to Rishi Sunak. But I hope this is people genuinely wising up rather than being unduly influenced by personality, since if it's the latter it's not really a 'lesson learnt' and we'd still be potentially easy marks for the next 'high colour, low character' politician that comes along.

    Boris's lies weren't really lies so much as bullshit for the most part. Calling them lies suggests Boris had a purpose in lying, or at least an intent to lie. Instead he seems not to have the capacity to distinguish what is true from what is false. Boris was unreliable even to his friends because he saw no boundary between established fact and wishful thinking. And that is why Nadine Dorries has no peerage, not because Michael Gove and Rishi Sunak plotted against her.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    AIUI there's a big issue with the amount of testing going down week-on-week, but the positivity rate going up.

    I fear the government really don't want to deal with another Covid wave, so they're ignoring the fact we've got one. It's yet another head-in-the-sand moment from Sunak.
    Nah, there is covid about but while miserable is rarely making people very sick. Our Trust maintains virological surveillance and is seeing positive tests but few admissions, and those on a background of other diseases.

    What we are seeing is widespread of all the usual winter bugs and lots of admissions with those, particularly in the Children's hospital. We have no beds there again.
  • Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Spanish flu went through four distinct phases and there was something about the climate (lots of rainfall) that meant it didn't settle down quickly, I vaguely remember.

    Thankfully, there is no ongoing change to the climate we need to worry about this time /s.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Politics is volatile. No one can predict accurately what will happen in five years time. After the 2019 election, you’d be hard pressed to predict where we are today.

    One of the myriad scenarios in the future is a Lib Dem revival. They quietly destroyed the Tories round here this year.

    It’s time to watch and listen I think.
    Yes. None of us have a clue. I believe they are very focused in their targeting currently, particularly after last time so they might not win too many. This is correct strategy if the Tories do not crash and burn. Not the correct strategy if the Tories do.

    If they only win 20 - 30 seats they may again stay irrelevant in national politics. If they win 30+, particularly if they get around 50 or more they then become relevant once more and get media attention and become a bucket for those disaffected.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
  • Totally OT Not only is Shinzo Abe dead, his entire political faction is getting reduced to a smoking hole in the ground.
    https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2023-12-02-multiple-members-of-the-abe-faction-kickback-over-1000-million-political-fund-party.Hy7khkt_rp.html

    Amazing what can be accomplished by one man with a bit of initiative and some parts from Home Depot.
  • Leon said:

    Meeks in iconoclastic mood:

    https://alastair-meeks.medium.com/a-series-of-unfortunate-opinions-0d6b06d7de23

    Why do people get so worked up about sktscraper architecture? If you live near a tall building you don't even notice it after a bit, and if you live/work IN it you probably get a nice view.

    You’ve never been to see the Elgin Marbles. You’re not exactly an aesthete

    And that building in the pic in Spitalfields is HIDEOUS

    I disagree with Mr Meeks on the Orb, tho. We should build it. It will be fun and generate wealth
    Would you want to live near it? Even if it didn't have the LED advertising thing on the outside.

    Similar problem to most skyscrapers. Nice if you're inside, possibly fun from a distance (it's pleasant to see lit up Canary Wharf from the end of my Zone 6 street) but literally a giant raised middle finger if you have to walk past it.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    I cited some links last night about the evermore imminent arrival of world changing AGI

    It is going to sweep away all our economic and political norms within a decade, max, and might be impacting - hugely - within the next 3-5 years

    Don’t bother putting money in a pension. It will either be worthless or everyone will be rich anyway
    Bore off
    lol. I take it you’re putting money in a pension


    “We should dispense with the false idea that money is somehow relevant in an AGi future”

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1726160901999296676?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    “MIRI doesn’t do 401(k) matching, because, a spokesperson explains, they believe that AI will be “so disruptive to humanity’s future—for worse or for better—that the notion of traditional retirement planning is moot.””

    https://x.com/shorttimelines/status/1730352007633129876?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Is it not more likely that "MIRI doesn’t do 401(k) matching" because its owners and directors want to keep that money for themselves?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,580
    edited December 2023

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    I hear that the Lib Dems are considering rebranding themselves as Dem Libs to appeal to the young.

    Dem Libs - Yo bros, future's in our hands.

    Could work.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    That piece that was linked to last night was just shocking. The idea that he was concerned because destroying these lives was causing him upset is frankly every bit as vile as the rapists I was referring to in my last post. Once again all about the self.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    There definitely is a new wave of it, but generally non-fatal. Long Covid seems to be a significant thing too, and I know people who are annoyed how little the whole political class is paying attention to that. I know a senior executive who is highly-motivated and enjoys her job, but often struggles to even walk out of the door, a year after she had the illness.
    Yes I am aware of a lot of people who have had covid recently. All but one has only really had cold symptoms, although my brother in law has been really struggling with it. There are probably more who haven't tested. My cousin only tested because he was meeting someone vulnerable (so didn't). Both myself and my wife had cold symptoms a few weeks ago. I have no idea if we had a cold or covid. Just kept out of other people's way.
    I had something a few weeks back. The phlegminess lingered on and still hasn't fully gone away. Didn't test, but I suspect Covid.

    Meanwhile a younger colleague did test positive but only had cold symptoms for 3 or 4 days and was back out running a few days later.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    .

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    ???

    I know a fair bit about this subject. Under Thatcher, the ECML was electrified - at the time, I believe it was the biggest construction project in Europe. BedPan (Bedford to St Pancras) was also electrified under her government. Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge occurred under her, and it was extended to King's Lynn under Major. London to Shoeburyness was electrified under Thatcher. Cross-city line in Birmingham under Major. Various local routes around Edinburgh and Leeds were also electrified under Thatcher.

    That's hundreds of miles electrified, including major routes. Between 1997 and 2010, under Blair and Brown, precisely nine miles were electrified.

    I'll praise Thatcher and Major's governments for electrifying those routes and lines, as I think it was the right thing to do. I'll criticise Sunak's government over HS2, because cancelling was the *wrong* thing.

    And I'll excoriate Blair for shouting about the WCML Upgrade (which was a failure on its own terms) and ignoring the rest of the network.

    But facts, eh?
    So lets understand why nothing was electrified shall we?
    1. Franchises were let which didn't allow for any upgrades unless stipulated
    2. The electrification teams were disbanded and equipment left to rot after privatisation. So all new people and kit would be needed for any scheme
    3. Railtrack was utterly useless at doing basic maintenance. It tried to do things like resignalling and utterly screwed it up
    4. Once Failtrack went bust, Network Rail was focused on fixing the myriad of not done infrastructure works so that people didn't get killed any more.

    Its not like Blair and Brown said "no more wires"
    Privatisation occurred between 1994 and 1997. Some of those schemes were ongoing after 1994. Blair came in in 1997. The idea that 'equipment left to rot' occurred in that time is fanciful.

    Nothing was electrified because the Blair and Brown governments were uninterested in doing it. If they had been interested, it could have happened - it's not as though the WCML Upgrade did not go ahead. I also think your characterisation of Railtrack is also rather off-base - not that it was a perfect, or even good, organisation, but they weren't as bad as you make out - especially compared to BR before them.

    Blair and NL found it far easier to just shout about the potential for renationalisation as red meat for their followers, than actually do anything. And in those 13 years, the teams not only disbanded, but lost knowledge and experience, and the equipment was let go of (aside from the stuff needed for renewals and maintenance).

    I wish people would look at the reality of what happened, rather than have this brain-dead "Labour are good for the railways!" spiel. Because Labour governments are often very bad for the railways.

    Yet so is the current Conservative government. I have little idea how good or bad Starmer will be for the railways - has he talked much about them? - but I don't hold out much hope.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    Cyclefree said:



    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    The Gaby Hinsliff article is brilliant and devastating and clearly aimed at Owen Jones. Civil War at the Guardian….
    Jones should be sacked. A lot of female Guardian journalists have been busy liking and retweeting the Hinsliff article. But it's not just Jones. A lot of feminist groups here have been equally shameful. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women & Girls has been silent, refusing to say anything because there is "no solid evidence". It is the same mentality which leads to Holocaust denial. If the victim is the wrong type of the victim or the perpetrator someone you support, you have to deny. It is an attitude all too common. Sadly, women are often the victims of this. And - even more shamefully - women, often so-called feminists, perpetrate this.

    Those women's groups who do not speak up about this because the victims are Jews are utterly beyond the pale. Misogyny and anti-semitism: a disgusting combination.
    Special Rapporteurs are in the main, highly partisan, and not in any way impartial reporters on the truth.

    When you see a semi-naked woman being paraded on the back of a truck, that's pretty "solid evidence" to all but the wilfully blind.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
    You're doing a grand job getting these feckers convicted. Sadly too many get away with it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,805

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
    You're doing a grand job getting these feckers convicted. Sadly too many get away with it.
    I've had acquittals too and that can be hard to bear. But this is the most satisfying work I have ever done.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2023

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    "... is notoriously not fit for purpose. "

    I've seen that argued, and I've also seen the opposite argued: that it's okay. Both by experts. But it's still orders of magnitude better than the *9* miles of line electrified in 13 years under Blair and Brown... (Kidsgrove to Crewe).

    Compare with the GWML, which seems to be overdesigned to withstand a thermonuclear weapons, and which still has dewirements and was ugly as f***.
    Best practice has changed over the years - nowadays the approach for electrification would be based what Scotland is doing as all the expertise in the UK is there and they will run out of work at some point because they will have electrified everything before we even start
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Again, like the IT complexity, isn't the ineptitude or malice of the prosecutor(s) rather beside the point?

    We should expect that institutions like the police/CPS/private prosecutors have some regard to ethics, and that they should be punished when they don't abide by them, but ultimately the defence against a miscarriage of justice are the judges, defence lawyers and the framework they operate within - right?

    They've had rings run round them by this guy and a software company. It's a humiliation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131

    kinabalu said:

    "As a general rule, it's a really bad idea for politicians to tell the public that horse balls are oranges."

    This is beautifully Meeks. However is it true? You'd like to think so but one of the main things that used to bug me during the tenure of Boris Johnson was how so many people failed to bust him on all the lies he told. It was like they'd established a new and higher tolerance for outrageous mendacity. It's good to see this isn't extended to Rishi Sunak. But I hope this is people genuinely wising up rather than being unduly influenced by personality, since if it's the latter it's not really a 'lesson learnt' and we'd still be potentially easy marks for the next 'high colour, low character' politician that comes along.

    Boris's lies weren't really lies so much as bullshit for the most part. Calling them lies suggests Boris had a purpose in lying, or at least an intent to lie. Instead he seems not to have the capacity to distinguish what is true from what is false. Boris was unreliable even to his friends because he saw no boundary between established fact and wishful thinking. And that is why Nadine Dorries has no peerage, not because Michael Gove and Rishi Sunak plotted against her.
    Yet she doesn't blame him. Such is his spell over her. And for me that's how a chunk of the public were as regards BoJo for quite a while. They were like Nadine. Some still are going by the vox pops.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    Thanks, I'll give that a listen when I get 80 minutes.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    edited December 2023
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
    A small proportion of the population are psychopaths. They either don't care what harm they inflict on others, in order to sate their appetites, or else, they positively enjoy inflicting harm. But, in a nation of 67 million, that small proportion is a lot of people, in absolute terms.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    "As a general rule, it's a really bad idea for politicians to tell the public that horse balls are oranges."

    This is beautifully Meeks. However is it true? You'd like to think so but one of the main things that used to bug me during the tenure of Boris Johnson was how so many people failed to bust him on all the lies he told. It was like they'd established a new and higher tolerance for outrageous mendacity. It's good to see this isn't extended to Rishi Sunak. But I hope this is people genuinely wising up rather than being unduly influenced by personality, since if it's the latter it's not really a 'lesson learnt' and we'd still be potentially easy marks for the next 'high colour, low character' politician that comes along.

    Boris's lies weren't really lies so much as bullshit for the most part. Calling them lies suggests Boris had a purpose in lying, or at least an intent to lie. Instead he seems not to have the capacity to distinguish what is true from what is false. Boris was unreliable even to his friends because he saw no boundary between established fact and wishful thinking. And that is why Nadine Dorries has no peerage, not because Michael Gove and Rishi Sunak plotted against her.
    Yet she doesn't blame him. Such is his spell over her. And for me that's how a chunk of the public were as regards BoJo for quite a while. They were like Nadine. Some still are going by the vox pops.
    He groomed a lot of people. Or seduced if you prefer a less loaded term.
  • Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    edited December 2023

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
    He's pretending to be stupid. Like Ann Coulter says things that are, on the face of it, stupid, but it's an act.

    No one who is stupid gets to edit Michigan Law Review (the Michigan Law School is one of the top three in the USA).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    I see Humza is getting good publicity at COP meeting




    Who is the girl pictured there? An actress?
  • Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
    A small proportion of the population are psychopaths. They either don't care what harm they inflict on others, in order to sate their appetites, or else, they positively enjoy inflicting harm.
    Probably a large number are off their heads on booze, steroids and coke. Look at today's Mirror Exclusive (which turns out to be a preview of a Channel 4 show):-

    A gunman was filmed threatening to shoot firearms officers during a 14-hour siege sparked by the delivery of a cold chicken kebab.

    Paul Burton, 46, and Nathan Turner, 38, high on vodka and Valium, had held a delivery driver hostage after he also forgot their salad.

    Turner used Facebook Live to record the terrifying stand-off. He is heard telling police: “I ordered two kebabs. The geezer sat outside my flat for 45 minutes so I thought it was only fair, seeing as he forgot my salad and it was cold, that he would have to wait upstairs with me for an hour.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gunman-threatens-shoot-police-during-31579017

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited December 2023

    malcolmg said:

    FPT
    I see Humza is getting good publicity at COP meeting




    Who is the girl pictured there? An actress?
    Like Malcolm, I've been enjoying the various twitter rumours but @PBModerator should be aware given no one has been named in the press.
  • Jonathan said:

    kjh said:

    Prediction: inside 24 months Labour will be down at 30-32% in the polls again, and the Greens riding very high. Maybe even into the high teens. The Tories will be there or thereabouts with Reform in the low teens.

    There is no money and both main parties have very exposed flanks.

    The LD poll rating after the election should be interesting. Currently nothing is getting them out of the 9 - 14% range. If however the Tories do really slump and the LDs get quite a few seats they might again become the bucket for none of the above once more. For this to happen I reckon they need a minimum of 30 seats, ideally 50 to get any momentum.
    Sorry, but I think this is wishful thinking.

    The LDs have a place as a NOTA and a non-Tory alternative where Labour aren't competitive but are otherwise a busted flush.
    Politics is volatile. No one can predict accurately what will happen in five years time. After the 2019 election, you’d be hard pressed to predict where we are today.

    One of the myriad scenarios in the future is a Lib Dem revival. They quietly destroyed the Tories round here this year.

    It’s time to watch and listen I think.
    if you fool around with Electoral Calculus, it's not difficult to come up with a scenario in which the LDs become the Official Opposition - and the assumptions don't have to be wildly implausible, either.
    FPTP is utterly brutal to third placed parties with wide geographic spread. We may be heading for one of those times where the opposition party seat counts are pretty chaotic.

    Lab vs Con is one of the options on the other side of that, but Lab vs Lib (think 2010 coalition with precedence reversed) doesn't look crazy. There could be a CrefUK party to the right of that, making noise, getting votes but not really getting anywhere seatwise.

    Or maybe this is an experiment being done on us to persuade us that dictatorship by AI would be better for us poor humans.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    Got another conviction for yet another rape yesterday (as prosecutor to prevent the usual jokes). Quite bizarre really. Out for drinks with workmates and literally dragged into the bushes and raped. I mean, WTAF? What goes through these men's heads? They are so selfish, so self interested, so uninterested in anyone else's feelings, happiness or bodily integrity. It's really quite sick.
    A small proportion of the population are psychopaths. They either don't care what harm they inflict on others, in order to sate their appetites, or else, they positively enjoy inflicting harm.
    Probably a large number are off their heads on booze, steroids and coke. Look at today's Mirror Exclusive (which turns out to be a preview of a Channel 4 show):-

    A gunman was filmed threatening to shoot firearms officers during a 14-hour siege sparked by the delivery of a cold chicken kebab.

    Paul Burton, 46, and Nathan Turner, 38, high on vodka and Valium, had held a delivery driver hostage after he also forgot their salad.

    Turner used Facebook Live to record the terrifying stand-off. He is heard telling police: “I ordered two kebabs. The geezer sat outside my flat for 45 minutes so I thought it was only fair, seeing as he forgot my salad and it was cold, that he would have to wait upstairs with me for an hour.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gunman-threatens-shoot-police-during-31579017

    First thought is - learn to make your own salad?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
    Someone can be very, very intelligent in one area, and utterly stupid in another. Or all other areas. In fact, I'd argue we are all like that to some degree.

    Failure to understand that can lead to all sorts of problems. For instance, I'd like to think I'm fairly intelligent, but there's no way I'd attempt to (say) write an important legal document.

    Also: IMV intelligence is correlated with, but unconnected to, memory and knowledge.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Am I the only PBer who read about the rapes (and murders and kidnappings) at the time, and not a month and a half later?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
    Fair enough

    But I simply don’t understand now anyone can come away with that reaction, unless you already hate Elon so much (and many do) you are wilfully blind to his virtues (of course he has major flaws as well)

    To me he is possibly the most interesting man on the planet at the moment. I like the bit where he tells teens not to read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer

    Try Douglas Adams instead. Good advice for quite a few

    He also has a proper sense of humour hidden away in the Aspergery awkwardness (and he is a self identified Aspie)

    Also fascinating on the origins of OpenAI. Like it or not he has been a pivotal figure in three of the most important technologies of the age - SpaceX/starlink/ Tesla and EVs/AGI and OpenAI

    One of the most interesting interviews of recent years - for me
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    eek said:

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    "... is notoriously not fit for purpose. "

    I've seen that argued, and I've also seen the opposite argued: that it's okay. Both by experts. But it's still orders of magnitude better than the *9* miles of line electrified in 13 years under Blair and Brown... (Kidsgrove to Crewe).

    Compare with the GWML, which seems to be overdesigned to withstand a thermonuclear weapons, and which still has dewirements and was ugly as f***.
    Best practice has changed over the years - nowadays the approach for electrification would be based what Scotland is doing as all the expertise in the UK is there and they will run out of work at some point because they will have electrified everything before we even start
    There's some truth in that. But the causes of the GWML electrification woes are quite interesting - and seem to vary according to who is talking!

    One consistent theme seems to be that NR thought they could get the job done quickly and cheaply using a High Output machine; a train that bored/dug the mast bases quickly. Sadly, it turned out to be an absolute disaster because of the ground conditions, signal cabling, etc, etc. Just a couple of unbored holes meant coming back another night, with more delays, more costs. And some nights they were leaving more than they completed.

    AIUI the same thing happened on some of the northern lines. Thankfully, the same problems don't seem to be occurring now, say on the MML.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
    He's pretending to be stupid. Like Ann Coulter says things that are, on the face of it, stupid, but it's an act.

    No one who is stupid gets to edit Michigan Law Review (the Michigan Law School is one of the top three in the USA).
    We had the pleasure of reading some of his emails. He is semi-illiterate, as well as unpleasant, and unethical.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Rape in war is much harder to explain away than killing is. Killing of civilians can always be an accident/collateral damage/overreaction etc.

    Rape, on the other hand, is deliberately callous, and in no sense, is it an act of war.

    Hence, the need to pretend that it never happened.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
    Fair enough

    But I simply don’t understand now anyone can come away with that reaction, unless you already hate Elon so much (and many do) you are wilfully blind to his virtues (of course he has major flaws as well)

    To me he is possibly the most interesting man on the planet at the moment. I like the bit where he tells teens not to read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer

    Try Douglas Adams instead. Good advice for quite a few

    He also has a proper sense of humour hidden away in the Aspergery awkwardness (and he is a self identified Aspie)

    Also fascinating on the origins of OpenAI. Like it or not he has been a pivotal figure in three of the most important technologies of the age - SpaceX/starlink/ Tesla and EVs/AGI and OpenAI

    One of the most interesting interviews of recent years - for me
    I come away with that reaction because I spent years working in tech, know a load of techies (and am married to a brilliant one), and know sub-techie bullshit when I see it. :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited December 2023

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Am I the only PBer who read about the rapes (and murders and kidnappings) at the time, and not a month and a half later?
    No, but it wasn’t too long between the attacks themselves on October 7th, and the ‘spontaneous’ Western outpouring of support for the terrorists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
    Fair enough

    But I simply don’t understand now anyone can come away with that reaction, unless you already hate Elon so much (and many do) you are wilfully blind to his virtues (of course he has major flaws as well)

    To me he is possibly the most interesting man on the planet at the moment. I like the bit where he tells teens not to read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer

    Try Douglas Adams instead. Good advice for quite a few

    He also has a proper sense of humour hidden away in the Aspergery awkwardness (and he is a self identified Aspie)

    Also fascinating on the origins of OpenAI. Like it or not he has been a pivotal figure in three of the most important technologies of the age - SpaceX/starlink/ Tesla and EVs/AGI and OpenAI

    One of the most interesting interviews of recent years - for me
    I come away with that reaction because I spent years working in tech, know a load of techies (and am married to a brilliant one), and know sub-techie bullshit when I see it. :)
    Yes. Of course. Elon musk. “Sub techie”

    I suggest we leave it there
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    My office (London) had a wave of COVID. It took dozens of people out at once. It’s a nasty variant. Everyone who got it ( me included ) was taken out for a week and couple haven’t made it back properly. Nasty bug.

    Do you think this is definitely Covid? Out here in the east people are getting mysterious bugs but testing neg

    I repeat: my hunch is that it’s normal winter bugs but everyone’s paranoid
    If it were a new wave of Covid we'd have heard about it by now and Sage wouldn't be disbanding.
    COVID is with us for the long term. Like the flu. Yearly vaccinations will be a thing.
    On the plus side, the Government bought enough boosters for all over-fifties this year.
    On the minus side, it was decided that the cost of administering them (plus the expectation that they’d continue to provide them) was too high so they decided it was more cost-effective to put them in bins rather than arms.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Am I the only PBer who read about the rapes (and murders and kidnappings) at the time, and not a month and a half later?
    No, but it wasn’t too long between the attacks themselves on October 7th, and the ‘spontaneous’ Western outpouring of support for the terrorists.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his world view depends on his not understanding it.
  • Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Rape in war is much harder to explain away than killing is. Killing of civilians can always be an accident/collateral damage/overreaction etc.

    Rape, on the other hand, is deliberately callous, and in no sense, is it an act of war.

    Hence, the need to pretend that it never happened.
    I am not sure anyone other than the worst kind of apologists ever claimed it didn't happen. No doubt there is some fog of war and propaganda in the reporting as there always is in wartime but I believe it was widely reported at the time and is an accepted part of the narrative. As you say, sadly sexual violence is extremely common in wartime. I'm not sure it should be surprising, war is hell as Sherman said.
  • .

    .

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    ???

    I know a fair bit about this subject. Under Thatcher, the ECML was electrified - at the time, I believe it was the biggest construction project in Europe. BedPan (Bedford to St Pancras) was also electrified under her government. Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge occurred under her, and it was extended to King's Lynn under Major. London to Shoeburyness was electrified under Thatcher. Cross-city line in Birmingham under Major. Various local routes around Edinburgh and Leeds were also electrified under Thatcher.

    That's hundreds of miles electrified, including major routes. Between 1997 and 2010, under Blair and Brown, precisely nine miles were electrified.

    I'll praise Thatcher and Major's governments for electrifying those routes and lines, as I think it was the right thing to do. I'll criticise Sunak's government over HS2, because cancelling was the *wrong* thing.

    And I'll excoriate Blair for shouting about the WCML Upgrade (which was a failure on its own terms) and ignoring the rest of the network.

    But facts, eh?
    So lets understand why nothing was electrified shall we?
    1. Franchises were let which didn't allow for any upgrades unless stipulated
    2. The electrification teams were disbanded and equipment left to rot after privatisation. So all new people and kit would be needed for any scheme
    3. Railtrack was utterly useless at doing basic maintenance. It tried to do things like resignalling and utterly screwed it up
    4. Once Failtrack went bust, Network Rail was focused on fixing the myriad of not done infrastructure works so that people didn't get killed any more.

    Its not like Blair and Brown said "no more wires"
    Privatisation occurred between 1994 and 1997. Some of those schemes were ongoing after 1994. Blair came in in 1997. The idea that 'equipment left to rot' occurred in that time is fanciful.

    Nothing was electrified because the Blair and Brown governments were uninterested in doing it. If they had been interested, it could have happened - it's not as though the WCML Upgrade did not go ahead. I also think your characterisation of Railtrack is also rather off-base - not that it was a perfect, or even good, organisation, but they weren't as bad as you make out - especially compared to BR before them.

    Blair and NL found it far easier to just shout about the potential for renationalisation as red meat for their followers, than actually do anything. And in those 13 years, the teams not only disbanded, but lost knowledge and experience, and the equipment was let go of (aside from the stuff needed for renewals and maintenance).

    I wish people would look at the reality of what happened, rather than have this brain-dead "Labour are good for the railways!" spiel. Because Labour governments are often very bad for the railways.

    Yet so is the current Conservative government. I have little idea how good or bad Starmer will be for the railways - has he talked much about them? - but I don't hold out much hope.
    Where have I said that Labour were good for the railways? More lines closed under Labour than under the Tories.

    Let me pick at a couple of your points if I may:

    1. Equipment left to rot. Genuinely. Parked in a siding and left to rust on site. Much of the specialist kit was the same. Which meant that they had to build new teams and assemble new kit to do anything.

    2. The WCML upgrade Did Not Go Ahead. We got one phase, not the other. "Passenger Upgrade 2" was managed so badly by Railtrack that it bankrupted them and sunk the Virgin West Coast franchise whose entire business model (and payments schedule) was based on the delivery of the 140mph PUG2 scheme which was cancelled.

    3. Blair thought that scrapping the privatised system was too complex when other things had higher priority. Creating the Strategic Rail Authority was the attempt to bring some discipline to the industry and make Railtrack do its job. Having privatised the infrastructure it was no longer up to government to fund it or compel it. Blair would have needed to scrap the whole model to take control - even the SRA was toothless

    4. Railtrack presided over one of the bloodiest phases of rail disasters we have had in recent times. And the repeated crashes due to faulty infrastructure only revealed that they had no clue what state the tracks were in as hadn't actually been maintaining them. I remember a 4 hour Manchester to London journey, much at 20mph due to all the sites having to have emergency inspections.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    His latest mad car just turned up - the Cybertruck

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg

    Looks like something out of Back to the Future, but very American in concept and not likely to be sold in Europe any time soon.
  • Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
    Someone can be very, very intelligent in one area, and utterly stupid in another. Or all other areas. In fact, I'd argue we are all like that to some degree.

    Failure to understand that can lead to all sorts of problems. For instance, I'd like to think I'm fairly intelligent, but there's no way I'd attempt to (say) write an important legal document.

    Also: IMV intelligence is correlated with, but unconnected to, memory and knowledge.
    Hence, be suspicious of Modern Renaissance Men.

    One of the reasons it sucks to be alive now is that the frontier of what's really unknown is so far out, and it takes so long to get there, and the amount of frontier that fits on the head of even someone really clever is limited.

    It's what might be interesting about LLMs. What's known by humanity, without being known by more than a handful of people, and what connections can a fast but fundamentally dumb machine spot that humanity never would?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
    Fair enough

    But I simply don’t understand now anyone can come away with that reaction, unless you already hate Elon so much (and many do) you are wilfully blind to his virtues (of course he has major flaws as well)

    To me he is possibly the most interesting man on the planet at the moment. I like the bit where he tells teens not to read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer

    Try Douglas Adams instead. Good advice for quite a few

    He also has a proper sense of humour hidden away in the Aspergery awkwardness (and he is a self identified Aspie)

    Also fascinating on the origins of OpenAI. Like it or not he has been a pivotal figure in three of the most important technologies of the age - SpaceX/starlink/ Tesla and EVs/AGI and OpenAI

    One of the most interesting interviews of recent years - for me
    I come away with that reaction because I spent years working in tech, know a load of techies (and am married to a brilliant one), and know sub-techie bullshit when I see it. :)
    Yes. Of course. Elon musk. “Sub techie”

    I suggest we leave it there
    Your crush on Elon is quite something but unlike others I'm not inclined to rib you on it. Crushes aren't something you necessarily grow out of, and they can be life enhancing. I've had plenty of my own over the years, most recently on Barry Gardiner.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited December 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    His latest mad car just turned up - the Cybertruck

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WDq0V5oBg

    Looks like something out of Back to the Future, but very American in concept and not likely to be sold in Europe any time soon.
    Have you seen the video with the Tesla “robots”?

    https://x.com/fishxcd/status/1730790918276710722?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    3. Blair thought that scrapping the privatised system was too complex when other things had higher priority. Creating the Strategic Rail Authority was the attempt to bring some discipline to the industry and make Railtrack do its job. Having privatised the infrastructure it was no longer up to government to fund it or compel it. Blair would have needed to scrap the whole model to take control - even the SRA was toothless

    Generally known as the "R", because it didn't have any strategy or authority.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    .

    .

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    ???

    I know a fair bit about this subject. Under Thatcher, the ECML was electrified - at the time, I believe it was the biggest construction project in Europe. BedPan (Bedford to St Pancras) was also electrified under her government. Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge occurred under her, and it was extended to King's Lynn under Major. London to Shoeburyness was electrified under Thatcher. Cross-city line in Birmingham under Major. Various local routes around Edinburgh and Leeds were also electrified under Thatcher.

    That's hundreds of miles electrified, including major routes. Between 1997 and 2010, under Blair and Brown, precisely nine miles were electrified.

    I'll praise Thatcher and Major's governments for electrifying those routes and lines, as I think it was the right thing to do. I'll criticise Sunak's government over HS2, because cancelling was the *wrong* thing.

    And I'll excoriate Blair for shouting about the WCML Upgrade (which was a failure on its own terms) and ignoring the rest of the network.

    But facts, eh?
    So lets understand why nothing was electrified shall we?
    1. Franchises were let which didn't allow for any upgrades unless stipulated
    2. The electrification teams were disbanded and equipment left to rot after privatisation. So all new people and kit would be needed for any scheme
    3. Railtrack was utterly useless at doing basic maintenance. It tried to do things like resignalling and utterly screwed it up
    4. Once Failtrack went bust, Network Rail was focused on fixing the myriad of not done infrastructure works so that people didn't get killed any more.

    Its not like Blair and Brown said "no more wires"
    Privatisation occurred between 1994 and 1997. Some of those schemes were ongoing after 1994. Blair came in in 1997. The idea that 'equipment left to rot' occurred in that time is fanciful.

    Nothing was electrified because the Blair and Brown governments were uninterested in doing it. If they had been interested, it could have happened - it's not as though the WCML Upgrade did not go ahead. I also think your characterisation of Railtrack is also rather off-base - not that it was a perfect, or even good, organisation, but they weren't as bad as you make out - especially compared to BR before them.

    Blair and NL found it far easier to just shout about the potential for renationalisation as red meat for their followers, than actually do anything. And in those 13 years, the teams not only disbanded, but lost knowledge and experience, and the equipment was let go of (aside from the stuff needed for renewals and maintenance).

    I wish people would look at the reality of what happened, rather than have this brain-dead "Labour are good for the railways!" spiel. Because Labour governments are often very bad for the railways.

    Yet so is the current Conservative government. I have little idea how good or bad Starmer will be for the railways - has he talked much about them? - but I don't hold out much hope.
    Where have I said that Labour were good for the railways? More lines closed under Labour than under the Tories.

    Let me pick at a couple of your points if I may:

    1. Equipment left to rot. Genuinely. Parked in a siding and left to rust on site. Much of the specialist kit was the same. Which meant that they had to build new teams and assemble new kit to do anything.

    2. The WCML upgrade Did Not Go Ahead. We got one phase, not the other. "Passenger Upgrade 2" was managed so badly by Railtrack that it bankrupted them and sunk the Virgin West Coast franchise whose entire business model (and payments schedule) was based on the delivery of the 140mph PUG2 scheme which was cancelled.

    3. Blair thought that scrapping the privatised system was too complex when other things had higher priority. Creating the Strategic Rail Authority was the attempt to bring some discipline to the industry and make Railtrack do its job. Having privatised the infrastructure it was no longer up to government to fund it or compel it. Blair would have needed to scrap the whole model to take control - even the SRA was toothless

    4. Railtrack presided over one of the bloodiest phases of rail disasters we have had in recent times. And the repeated crashes due to faulty infrastructure only revealed that they had no clue what state the tracks were in as hadn't actually been maintaining them. I remember a 4 hour Manchester to London journey, much at 20mph due to all the sites having to have emergency inspections.
    1. In a couple of years they deteriorated that much? How about the following thirteen?

    2. It did. From memory, the project had two main aims: to introduce 140MPH running and to put in place a new signalling system. In the end we got 125MPH running and no new signalling system. The project was years late (involving years of disruptions for passengers) and ten times over budget.

    3. He did not need to scrap the privatisation system to do enhancements. As the WCML Upgrade and some other enhancements showed.

    4. I fear that's rubbish: BR was pretty terrible for crashes, especially fatal ones.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_on_British_Rail
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,040
    kjh said:

    The basic Tory problem is that people have decided it's Time for a Change, and are no longer paying attention to the details. And "Does 2p off NI but frozen PA mean you're better or worse off?" comes under the heading of detail. Possibly Truss had the right idea in principle - they have to do dramatic stuff to make anyone even listen.

    Similarly, I was chatting to a politically-informed friend living alone and we were both surprised that we'd had £500 winter allowances, wasn't it £200? Turns out the Tories topped it up by £300 "cost of living allowance" and neither of us even noticed. Are we unusual? I suppose it'll disappear next year whoever is in power, unless the parties get into an annoying auction for "who can bribe voting pensioners most".

    Ditto. I got the letter a few weeks ago and then I noticed the money in my account yesterday. Not sure when it arrived. I shouldn't get it. Of course we still have the £10 Christmas bonus to arrive which in some ways is even more bonkers.
    I got my Christmas bonus yesterday - at least that's what I think XB is.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    But Sean, this guy is plug stupid, or appears to be.

    Sorry. Doesn't compute.
    Someone can be very, very intelligent in one area, and utterly stupid in another. Or all other areas. In fact, I'd argue we are all like that to some degree.

    Failure to understand that can lead to all sorts of problems. For instance, I'd like to think I'm fairly intelligent, but there's no way I'd attempt to (say) write an important legal document.

    Also: IMV intelligence is correlated with, but unconnected to, memory and knowledge.
    Hence, be suspicious of Modern Renaissance Men.

    One of the reasons it sucks to be alive now is that the frontier of what's really unknown is so far out, and it takes so long to get there, and the amount of frontier that fits on the head of even someone really clever is limited.

    It's what might be interesting about LLMs. What's known by humanity, without being known by more than a handful of people, and what connections can a fast but fundamentally dumb machine spot that humanity never would?
    This guy is a measure of the rapidly shrinking time horizon on AGI. Gary Marcus - an academic pundit

    His idea of skepticism used to be “it will either never happen or it will take 100 years”

    Now it’s “surely it won’t happen in the next three years like Elon says” —


    “Count me as one of the skeptics! No AGI by end of 2026, mark my words.

    But I otherwise think @elonmusk’s comments @nytimes on AI safety and AI regulation have been measured and on target.”

    https://x.com/garymarcus/status/1730003151971840419?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    .

    .

    Morning all. Sorry to go off-topic already, but there has been a horrific incident overnight on the East Coast Mainline. Cheapo Thatcher electrification brought down again again again south of Retford and it produced delays I have never seen before.

    Single line working was put in place at Retford with 10mph trundling through the affected section happening very slowly, trying to clear several in each direction at at time.

    My boss was on a train which finally arrived into York at 03:49 - a mere 392 minutes late. And that wasn’t even his booked train (which should have been earlier away from London and was cancelled).

    That train was full and standing! Another southbound was terminated into Retford gone 1am as the driver was out of hours. Another full and standing train turfed out onto Platform 2 at 01:bungle into -2. Barely enough room to stand on the platform - which was the only open track in both directions.

    So their train had to be cleared so anything else could run. Meanwhile there is an awful lot of people barely able to find space to stand in sub-zero temperatures for over half an hour until the train behind them could pick them up.

    I’m sure the LNER and NR staff were doing everything they could and were being creative about how to work the problem. But instead of cancelling the lot and sticking people in nice warm hotels they tried to push through because today is a strike day…

    The wiring on the east coast route appears to increasingly be made of cheese. Notoriously done on the cheap and unreliable ever since, these dewiring incidents happen with increasing frequency. What can be done?

    It might be wise to wait to see *why* the knitting came down, before going into 'Fatcha!" mode. I don't think the wind was string yesterday, the temperatures not abnormal, and many dewirements are caused by an issue with the train, not the infrastructure itself.

    Incidentally, and much more worryingly, there have been a spate of broken rails over the last few weeks.
    The wiring installed in that late 80s scheme (under Facha! and her spending rules) is notoriously not fit for purpose. Its hardly a secret. The problem I assume is that fixing it would cost money we do not want to spend.

    Have also heard about the broken rail incidents which suggests Railtrakean levels of maintenance by Network Rail. Failtrack weren't interested in infrastructure, only shopping. NR is run / ruined by the DfT muppets, so I have to assume that budget constraints will be part of the fun there.

    Two basic fails last night from what I can read - and yes I know its what I am reading on X but there are multiple sources and photos.

    One: the decision to keep buggering on regardless of how long it would take. Strike day today so I understand the rationale. Its just that the delays became utterly ludicrous as NR had to trundle services through on their donkey engine. Where they could do the Lincoln direct they had done so, but a single engine on an 801 is not going to manage that.

    Two: lack of coordination with stations. Of course all the lounges and waiting rooms were closed. Why wouldn't they be? I respect the out of hours cancellation of the train at Retford - you can't drive out of hours, its unsafe. But dumping everyone out into sub-zero temps is lunacy, especially where they are crush loaded onto the only operational platform which then has services running past it.
    That the same passengers were then abandoned on arrival into Kings Cross is just ludicrous.
    Jessops gets very touchy about criticism of Conservative Governments past. Can't we just blame the New Labour administration or God?
    ???

    I know a fair bit about this subject. Under Thatcher, the ECML was electrified - at the time, I believe it was the biggest construction project in Europe. BedPan (Bedford to St Pancras) was also electrified under her government. Bishop's Stortford to Cambridge occurred under her, and it was extended to King's Lynn under Major. London to Shoeburyness was electrified under Thatcher. Cross-city line in Birmingham under Major. Various local routes around Edinburgh and Leeds were also electrified under Thatcher.

    That's hundreds of miles electrified, including major routes. Between 1997 and 2010, under Blair and Brown, precisely nine miles were electrified.

    I'll praise Thatcher and Major's governments for electrifying those routes and lines, as I think it was the right thing to do. I'll criticise Sunak's government over HS2, because cancelling was the *wrong* thing.

    And I'll excoriate Blair for shouting about the WCML Upgrade (which was a failure on its own terms) and ignoring the rest of the network.

    But facts, eh?
    So lets understand why nothing was electrified shall we?
    1. Franchises were let which didn't allow for any upgrades unless stipulated
    2. The electrification teams were disbanded and equipment left to rot after privatisation. So all new people and kit would be needed for any scheme
    3. Railtrack was utterly useless at doing basic maintenance. It tried to do things like resignalling and utterly screwed it up
    4. Once Failtrack went bust, Network Rail was focused on fixing the myriad of not done infrastructure works so that people didn't get killed any more.

    Its not like Blair and Brown said "no more wires"
    Privatisation occurred between 1994 and 1997. Some of those schemes were ongoing after 1994. Blair came in in 1997. The idea that 'equipment left to rot' occurred in that time is fanciful.

    Nothing was electrified because the Blair and Brown governments were uninterested in doing it. If they had been interested, it could have happened - it's not as though the WCML Upgrade did not go ahead. I also think your characterisation of Railtrack is also rather off-base - not that it was a perfect, or even good, organisation, but they weren't as bad as you make out - especially compared to BR before them.

    Blair and NL found it far easier to just shout about the potential for renationalisation as red meat for their followers, than actually do anything. And in those 13 years, the teams not only disbanded, but lost knowledge and experience, and the equipment was let go of (aside from the stuff needed for renewals and maintenance).

    I wish people would look at the reality of what happened, rather than have this brain-dead "Labour are good for the railways!" spiel. Because Labour governments are often very bad for the railways.

    Yet so is the current Conservative government. I have little idea how good or bad Starmer will be for the railways - has he talked much about them? - but I don't hold out much hope.
    Where have I said that Labour were good for the railways? More lines closed under Labour than under the Tories.

    Let me pick at a couple of your points if I may:

    1. Equipment left to rot. Genuinely. Parked in a siding and left to rust on site. Much of the specialist kit was the same. Which meant that they had to build new teams and assemble new kit to do anything.

    2. The WCML upgrade Did Not Go Ahead. We got one phase, not the other. "Passenger Upgrade 2" was managed so badly by Railtrack that it bankrupted them and sunk the Virgin West Coast franchise whose entire business model (and payments schedule) was based on the delivery of the 140mph PUG2 scheme which was cancelled.

    3. Blair thought that scrapping the privatised system was too complex when other things had higher priority. Creating the Strategic Rail Authority was the attempt to bring some discipline to the industry and make Railtrack do its job. Having privatised the infrastructure it was no longer up to government to fund it or compel it. Blair would have needed to scrap the whole model to take control - even the SRA was toothless

    4. Railtrack presided over one of the bloodiest phases of rail disasters we have had in recent times. And the repeated crashes due to faulty infrastructure only revealed that they had no clue what state the tracks were in as hadn't actually been maintaining them. I remember a 4 hour Manchester to London journey, much at 20mph due to all the sites having to have emergency inspections.
    1. In a couple of years they deteriorated that much? How about the following thirteen?

    2. It did. From memory, the project had two main aims: to introduce 140MPH running and to put in place a new signalling system. In the end we got 125MPH running and no new signalling system. The project was years late (involving years of disruptions for passengers) and ten times over budget.

    3. He did not need to scrap the privatisation system to do enhancements. As the WCML Upgrade and some other enhancements showed.

    4. I fear that's rubbish: BR was pretty terrible for crashes, especially fatal ones.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_on_British_Rail
    Clapham springs to mind.

    Although nobody was killed the sheer mindless incompetence on display at Severn Tunnel was also something else. It began with the incorrect routine for fixing a signal and culminated in the emergency services being sent to the wrong end of the tunnel.

    Which of the Bob Reids spoke of the 'crumbling edge of quality' on the network due to lack of infrastructure maintenance?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,131

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, 2 blistering articles about the utterly shameful silence and denial by too many human rights and feminist groups and other self-important commentators with no moral compass (yes, Owen, that means you) of the sexual violence inflicted on women and girls on 7 October.

    Grim - but essential - reading.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/whys-the-metoo-crowd-silent-on-hamas-rape-g8m5mkpf9

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

    An absolute winter wonderland here now.

    There is an absurd silence about what Hamas did. No, worse, utter denial. Hamas can't have abducted and raped and beheaded because they are the victims.

    What has happened to the self-righteous morality that so many have spent so long refining and broadcasting? Jews - very literally - don't count. "But how dare you call us anti-semites" they say.
    Rape in war is much harder to explain away than killing is. Killing of civilians can always be an accident/collateral damage/overreaction etc.

    Rape, on the other hand, is deliberately callous, and in no sense, is it an act of war.

    Hence, the need to pretend that it never happened.
    I am not sure anyone other than the worst kind of apologists ever claimed it didn't happen. No doubt there is some fog of war and propaganda in the reporting as there always is in wartime but I believe it was widely reported at the time and is an accepted part of the narrative. As you say, sadly sexual violence is extremely common in wartime. I'm not sure it should be surprising, war is hell as Sherman said.
    No I haven't seen many denying the horror of what Hamas did. Indeed it's that which partly explains the slack being extended by so many to the (by any objective measure disproportionate and indiscriminate) Israeli response. Slack which to an extent applies to me btw before anybody leaps to conclusions.

    War: I think somebody once that anybody who has a full and true appreciation of what it really entails will be a pacifist.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    @Eabhal

    FPT....


    My impression of him - and I think I met a number like him in my professional career - is that he had very limited abilities but was good at bullshitting his way through life and made himself useful to others by doing what they wanted without questioning the worth or morality of his actions.

    It speaks volumes of the Post Office that it would actually employ such an individual in a position of authority.

    He's still more competent than Amanda Spielman.

    Admittedly, that's a low bar.
    So's my daughter's pet hamster.

    And he's dead.
    Singh had a legal practice on the side he was carrying on while working for the Post Office. So his criminal prosecution work was probably being done off the side of the desk. Apparently the Post Office approved this arrangement.

    There is something curious about this because according to Law Society records the dates he has given the inquiry and the dates given to them don't match. Which suggests that he may have been carrying on an unregulated legal practice and/or taking money from people under false pretences. Fraud, in other words. Oh the irony .....

    Someone at the Solicitors' Regulation Authority needs to take a close look at his evidence .....
    This bloke must have passed some Law exams at some point, Ms C. I'd always thought they must be difficult, but if a goon like Singh can get through them just how tough are they?

    Dare one suggest that Lawyers are not necessarily the high-powered super-brainy professionals they purport to be? (Present company excepted, of course.)
    Law exams are difficult (I've done them). But, all they test is legal ability. They don't test ethics or morals.

    High intelligence is no bar to being evil. In fact, it just enables one to be evil more effectively.
    I have mentioned before but I worked with a very clever sociopath/psychopath in the 90s. He was a salesman. It took months before I (or anyone else) was aware. It was only after I left that the full scale of the complexity and dishonesty became apparent. The manipulation was very complex. He was unlucky in that I left to set up a pressure group representing a lot of the customers of our previous employer and gradually saw inconsistencies and deduced what he was up to. I immediately shopped him to my previous employer.

    The level of detail was huge. How he could keep the multiple lies in his head was beyond me. Some schemes panned out over months.

    It always struck me that he could have done just as well if not better doing his job honestly. He worked very hard at being a crook.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think most people have seen the two minutes NYT interview when Musk tells advertisers to fuck off

    How many have watched the full hour 20 minutes?

    It ranges over a vast number of topics. He is sometimes introspective, sometimes alarmist (AGI in 3 years), sometimes wistful and dreamy

    https://x.com/simonateba/status/1730076897571221921?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    He is a genuinely remarkable man, the closest we have to a Renaissance polymath like Da Vinci. Like Da Vinci he suffers from too many ideas and not enough time or poor execution - which he admits

    I heartily recommend it. Even if you hate him or his mad cars or whatever

    He's not a Renaissance polymath.

    He's a bullshitter.
    Yes, dear, of course

    Watch the interview
    I already have. :)

    edit: It was pretty much a waste of an hour.
    Fair enough

    But I simply don’t understand now anyone can come away with that reaction, unless you already hate Elon so much (and many do) you are wilfully blind to his virtues (of course he has major flaws as well)

    To me he is possibly the most interesting man on the planet at the moment. I like the bit where he tells teens not to read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer

    Try Douglas Adams instead. Good advice for quite a few

    He also has a proper sense of humour hidden away in the Aspergery awkwardness (and he is a self identified Aspie)

    Also fascinating on the origins of OpenAI. Like it or not he has been a pivotal figure in three of the most important technologies of the age - SpaceX/starlink/ Tesla and EVs/AGI and OpenAI

    One of the most interesting interviews of recent years - for me
    I come away with that reaction because I spent years working in tech, know a load of techies (and am married to a brilliant one), and know sub-techie bullshit when I see it. :)
    Yes. Of course. Elon musk. “Sub techie”

    I suggest we leave it there
    Think about this a little. Musk is an *evangelist*; a bit in the Steve Jobs mould. But Steve Jobs never really claimed any technical proficiency or genius; and indeed, techies like Woz and others were highly regarded by Jobs (until they became inconvenient...) Instead, Jobs' genius lay elsewhere, in product design, marketing and in getting the best out of people. The RDF and all that stuff.

    Musk claims to have the same sort of Jobs' genius, but also technical proficiency (like his "I know more about production lines than anyone alive" b/s). Yet people who have seen his code are... well, let's just say they are unimpressed.

    A company I worked for had a CEO who was a brilliant salesman; he could sell anything to anyone. The firm was in tech, but he had little knowledge of the technical side. What he was brilliant at was people, and at detecting b/s. This meant he put people he could trust, who were techies, in positions of power. If you told him a problem, he would ask for a solution(s), then take you through them from a business perspective (cost, time, risks etc). But he would expect you to tell him the reality, not hype. That was to be left to him and the marketroids.

    And woe betide you if you lied to him...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Cyclefree said:



    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Slight but noticeable uptick in mask wearing in Bangkok

    Please god NO

    Nothing to indicate any concern from my family in Bangkok. My son is about to visit us to pick up his family’s Christmas presents and deliver those for here.

    And, from previous thread, what an appalling situation at the post office enquiry! It’s already gone from bad to worse; now, as I say, it’s gone to appalling.
    I really wonder what we going to see when the top brass gets into the witness box!

    And after all that, good morning, one at all! (Except any of the post office top brass who read this!)
    First of all, they won't give evidence. Too high a risk they might incriminate themselves.

    And secondly, we don't really want them in the witness box. As a country we need to see them in the dock. But that won't happen either.

    There are loads of inept, arrogant scofflaws with the intellectual capacity of roast potatoes in positions of power who got there through their connections and stay there because nobody who can get rid of them wants to.

    And the country suffers for it.
    Oh, I am sure Vennells will appear, and quite possibly the rest of her Board. It may be a long way down the line yet though. The PO is clearly playing it as long and slow as possible, deliberately delaying and obstructing the Inquiry wherever it can. Since it is owned by the Government, we can infer that it is doing so with Government consent, if not encouragement.

    We were due to hear recently from the extremely interesting witness Gareth Jenkins, who was the Expert Witness Fujitsu presented to reassure everyone that the Horizon system was 'robust'. Shortly before he was due up, the PO dumped thousands of emails on the Inquiry which it had just somehow discovered. Since some of these related to Mr J, his appearance had to be postponed to next year.

    I doubt the Inquiry will conclude before this time next year, by which time we will probably have a new Government. It will have its hands full, so I am not sure how much time and attention the results of the Inquiry will receive. Maybe that's what they would want. The origins of the scandal go back to Blair/Harman.
    It is worth watching the criminal lawyer, Mr Singh, be cross-examined yesterday morning about how the expert witness was not in fact an expert. It was like trying to nail jelly to a wall though Beer did a fantastic job. Even the judge got furious with Singh - who had to deny everything he wrote and said at the time because he had utterly failed to comply with any of the requirements relating to expert witnesses. It was on the back of this utterly flawed and dishonest evidence and Singh's total failure to comply with the laws governing how prosecutions should be conducted that Seema Misra, 8 weeks pregnant with her second child, was convicted and imprisoned on her son's 10th birthday.

    Prison is too good for the likes of Singh. He should be stripped of his pension and struck off. An utter weasel.
    Yes, I saw it, Ms C, and agree with everything you say.

    The one thing Singh was good at was blathering and wasting time, which is presumably what the PO (and the Government) wants witnesses to do. I should think it won't help Singh himself though. On his Inquiry performance alone (and yes, Beer was brilliant) I should say there is a strong prima facie case for a charge of conspiring to pervert the course of justice.

    If it ever gets to the Old Bailey, I'll be in the gallery.
    PS It was hilarious when Sir Wyn Nice-Oldthing lost his rag with Singh! Now all we need is for the fireless Welshman to show similar testiness towards the Government which owns this shower of shite.
    There were many amusing moments. Singh asking for a pen and paper to help him with his answers was one such. And then Beer - utterly deadpan - saying to the judge "I can confirm that Mr Singh now has a pen and paper." In the tone of a man realising that he's questioning a particularly dim 4 year old.

    Singh's evidence can be summed up thus:

    "Beer took stock. Singh had been told to write an email, headed with a title he didn’t agree with dictated to him by someone he couldn’t remember, which he didn’t actually type and then sent to a distribution list of people he didn’t know.
    “Is that where we’ve got to?” asked Beer, a little incredulously."
    Forgive me for quoting another classic...

    When Singh said he did not understand Beer's question, the Barrister replied that 'It is not possible for me to arrange the words in the sentence in a clearer way'.

    This guy is becoming a superstar.
    'There are no tanks in Baghdad.'
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